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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by gr...@apache.org on 2002/10/25 22:04:26 UTC
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> I'm happy to inform you that I just committed the new version of the xml
> site in CVS.
>
> If there are any problems, please contact
>
> forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
Looks very nice in Konqueror and is _much_ faster than the former page, but
Netscape 4.79 (comes with Red Hat 7.3) redirects me to
http://xml.apache.org/skin/page.css which doesn't exist, so I get a 404 error.
Now what am I going to do for test page with a bazillion .gifs? (just kidding -
I'll find something)
Greg
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Steven Noels wrote:
> Bert Van Kets wrote:
>
>> I just tested with NS4.79 on Win2K Server and had no problems.
>
>
> Under Linux (and other Unixes?), it is possible to use some pages as a
> browser crasher with NS4+. David can confirm this.
I think it's the javascript for the snail trail on top.
Let's just remove it for now if it stops the crashs.
> I agree with your position that the NS4 version should not be visually
> identical, but we cannot afford to host a browser-crashing version of a
> site on apache.org
>
> Maybe we should do some more formal browsertesting. I have a Netscape 4
> on Linux to offer (David too, I presume) - what we might need is some
> other Unix-dialects (Solaris, Irix and HP/UX) and Macs, I guess.
Well, we had already done the testing but I agree that it should be
formailzed better.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Bert Van Kets wrote:
> Why is the breadcrum not created Server Side? As there is no
> interactivity in this I don't see why it should be generated browser
side.
Because nobody has done it yet ;-)
I'd be more than happy to see it server-side, as it has been written
already many times on this list.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Bert Van Kets <be...@vankets.com>.
Why is the breadcrum not created Server Side? As there is no interactivity
in this I don't see why it should be generated browser side.
Moreover it adds another http request of a pretty large file (includes the
Apache license and a LOT of comments)
Bert
At 20:33 28/10/2002 +1100, you wrote:
>On Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 10:15:01AM +0100, Bert Van Kets wrote:
> > Can you tell me what pages are browser crashers?? I can take this up with
> > some CSS gurus I know.
>
>Someone posted this to cocoon-dev:
>
>http://css.nu/pointers/bugs-nn.html
>
>We really need stats on 4.x usage for xml.apache.org to make a good
>judgement.
>
>--Jeff
>
>
> > Bert
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Bert Van Kets <be...@vankets.com>.
Got ye! ;-)
What about the trial version of Webtrends? That is, if you are doing a
single run of course? Otherwise it would be too expensive.
It supports gziped log files on ftp.
Bert
At 10:45 28/10/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>>>I'll try and make a browser usage analysis for the month of september. I
>>>would be using analog or webalizer - does anyone else has killer tips
>>>for log analyzers?
>
>we're talking about 1.5 GB of gzipped logfiles for the month of september
>alone
>
>grep could do the job, but I plan on doing that log analysis only once, so
>I need a more comprehensive tool than grep :-)
>
></Steven>
>--
>Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
>Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
>stevenn@outerthought.org stevenn@apache.org
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
>> I'll try and make a browser usage analysis for the month of september.
>> I would be using analog or webalizer - does anyone else has killer
>> tips for log analyzers?
we're talking about 1.5 GB of gzipped logfiles for the month of
september alone
grep could do the job, but I plan on doing that log analysis only once,
so I need a more comprehensive tool than grep :-)
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
stevenn@outerthought.org stevenn@apache.org
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Bert Van Kets <be...@vankets.com>.
grep?
Bert
At 10:34 28/10/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>Jeff Turner wrote:
>
>>We really need stats on 4.x usage for xml.apache.org to make a good
>>judgement.
>
>I'll try and make a browser usage analysis for the month of september. I
>would be using analog or webalizer - does anyone else has killer tips for
>log analyzers?
>
></Steven>
>--
>Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
>Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
>stevenn@outerthought.org stevenn@apache.org
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> As with all statistics, we need to treat them with care.
>
> Perhaps it would be better if we each analysed the September
> log files from our own webservers and pooled the results.
>
> I think it would be dangerous to base any decision upon
> one day from www.apache.org site, especially when Forrest
> aims to have broader scope.
Of course, but Apache logs seem like the correct target audience to me.
The idea _is_ to support Apache websites amongst others, not?
That being said, here are some browser stats from our .org website -
oktober until now:
Program started at Tue-29-Oct-2002 04:04.
Analysed requests from Tue-01-Oct-2002 00:00 to Tue-29-Oct-2002 03:48
(28.16 days).
Successful requests: 43,687
Average successful requests per day: 1,551
Successful requests for pages: 5,682
Average successful requests for pages per day: 201
Failed requests: 839
Redirected requests: 1,255
Distinct files requested: 125
Distinct hosts served: 1,387
Unwanted logfile entries: 8,191
Data transferred: 116.535 megabytes
Average data transferred per day: 4.138 megabytes
no.: reqs: pages: browser
---: -----: -----: -------
1: 31151: 2644: MSIE
: 20691: 1754: MSIE/6
: 10326: 869: MSIE/5
: 134: 21: MSIE/4
2: 1343: 1343: Java1.4.0_01-ea
3: 6062: 677: Mozilla
: 5725: 635: Mozilla/1
: 250: 23: Mozilla/0
4: 820: 383: Googlebot
: 820: 383: Googlebot/2
5: 1255: 116: Netscape
: 675: 81: Netscape/4
: 572: 35: Netscape/6
6: 520: 100: Netscape (compatible)
7: 806: 78: Galeon
: 806: 78: Galeon/1
8: 459: 67: Konqueror
: 459: 67: Konqueror/3
9: 437: 55: Opera
: 404: 52: Opera/6
: 33: 3: Opera/5
10: 86: 21: TurnitinBot
: 86: 21: TurnitinBot/1
11: 51: 17: FAST-WebCrawler
: 51: 17: FAST-WebCrawler/3
12: 22: 17: Internet Explore 5.x
13: 75: 15: MarcoPolo
14: 50: 15: polybot
: 50: 15: polybot/1
15: 74: 15: Xenu Link Sleuth 1.2d
16: 33: 13: larbin_2.6.2 larbin2.6.2@unspecified.mail
17: 11: 11: Java1.3.1
18: 56: 10: ia_archiver
19: 17: 8: larbin_2.6.2 viktor@nagytestver.hu
20: 72: 8: MSProxy
: 72: 8: MSProxy/2
: 201: 55: [not listed: 37 browsers]
Gee - that's much less traffic than apache.org :-)
Java1.4.0_01-ea is me stresstesting using JMeter, so that one doesn't
count. Netscape 4 comes in at approx. 1.6%. Unfortunately, for ot.net, I
have no browser stats available.
If I find a nice way of running an entire month of loganalysis on
Daedalus, I'll post again.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
stevenn@outerthought.org stevenn@apache.org
New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@indexgeo.com.au>.
As with all statistics, we need to treat them with care.
Perhaps it would be better if we each analysed the September
log files from our own webservers and pooled the results.
I think it would be dangerous to base any decision upon
one day from www.apache.org site, especially when Forrest
aims to have broader scope.
...
Steven Noels wrote:
> Steven Noels wrote:
> > Jeff Turner wrote:
> >
> >> We really need stats on 4.x usage for xml.apache.org to make a good
> >> judgement.
> >
> >
> > I'll try and make a browser usage analysis for the month of september. I
> > would be using analog or webalizer - does anyone else has killer tips
> > for log analyzers?
> >
> > </Steven>
>
> I put up an analysed log of 1 day (3.868.269 requests, 271.678
> gigabytes) on http://www.apache.org/~stevenn/browserstats/
>
> I'm not a browser User Agent dictionary, it seems to me that the first
> non-IE, probably-dated browser is identified by "Mozilla/3.01
> (compatible;)", totaling 2.11% of that day. And Mozilla at 1.26% :-(
>
> OK, that's one day, and due to the sheer size of these logfiles and the
> current load-issues of daedalus I'm reluctant to run it across an entire
> month's worth of logs, but this already learns us something.
>
> The '10%' of older browsers on apache.org has been an urban city legend,
> IMO.
Careful, they might be hidden in the grey 50% part.
I think if we added up all the 0.02% entries for
older browsers then we would get up to 10%
Anyway, what decision are wanting to make?
--David
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Stefan Bodewig wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
>>Since they want lynx, I suppose they would want NS4 too.
>
>
> Not sure about "them", but lynx is *the* browser for blind or visually
> handicapped people, so making a site work for lynx means you are not
> closing out people who don't have the choice to simply upgrade their
> browser. NS4 users could be told to upgrade ...
Ok, makes sense.
Point taken.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org> wrote:
> Since they want lynx, I suppose they would want NS4 too.
Not sure about "them", but lynx is *the* browser for blind or visually
handicapped people, so making a site work for lynx means you are not
closing out people who don't have the choice to simply upgrade their
browser. NS4 users could be told to upgrade ...
Stefan
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Ugo Cei <u....@cbim.it>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> "So we should cater for *all* browsers, regardless of the %."
>
> Since they want lynx, I suppose they would want NS4 too.
NS4 is no problem, just use:
<style media="screen" type="text/css">@import "style.css";</style>
and NS4 (and IE4 too) will happily ignore all of your CSS and display
the page just like lynx does. Pure text and images, user-specified
fonts. If you take care to move the navigation at the end of the HTML
page, you're also being friendly to screen readers and search engine bots.
Ugo
--
Ugo Cei - http://www.beblogging.com/blog/
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Bert Van Kets wrote:
> At 15:26 30/10/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>
>> Jeff Turner wrote:
>>
>>> We really need stats on 4.x usage for xml.apache.org to make a good
>>> judgement.
>>
>>
>> In site-dev@apache.org they said that the pages *must* be easily
>> viewable in lynx (text browser).
>>
>> So we should cater for *all* browsers, regardless of the %.
>
> Lynx has nothing to do with the problems with Netscape 4.x. To be able
> to view html in Lynx you must make sure all images have alt tags and
> that the structure of the page is ok (among other things). Lynx skips
> CSS entirely. With Netscape 4.x you are very much restricted in the use
> of CSS and even some html tags.
I talked about lynx not because it has the same problems of Netscape,
but because it has been requested that we support it even if it has even
less share than Netscape.
> It's an entirely different story!
"So we should cater for *all* browsers, regardless of the %."
Since they want lynx, I suppose they would want NS4 too.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Bert Van Kets <be...@vankets.com>.
At 15:26 30/10/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>Jeff Turner wrote:
>
>>We really need stats on 4.x usage for xml.apache.org to make a good
>>judgement.
>
>In site-dev@apache.org they said that the pages *must* be easily viewable
>in lynx (text browser).
>
>So we should cater for *all* browsers, regardless of the %.
Lynx has nothing to do with the problems with Netscape 4.x. To be able to
view html in Lynx you must make sure all images have alt tags and that the
structure of the page is ok (among other things). Lynx skips CSS
entirely. With Netscape 4.x you are very much restricted in the use of CSS
and even some html tags. It's an entirely different story!
Bert
>--
>Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
> - verba volant, scripta manent -
> (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-) [warning: 100K attachment]
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>> We really need stats on 4.x usage for xml.apache.org to make a good
>> judgement.
>
>
> In site-dev@apache.org they said that the pages *must* be easily
> viewable in lynx (text browser).
>
> So we should cater for *all* browsers, regardless of the %.
I must say Lynx does a very decent job showing XHTML+CSS (attached,
sorry for the lowbandwidth users - screenshots of
http://cocoon.iguanacharlie.com/). 'Viewable' doesn't mean identical IMO.
So if NS falls below a certain unmeasurable margin, I'm ready to change
my thoughts on this. That page doesn't look terrific under NS4/Linux,
however - so don't start cheering yet, CSS-zealots ;-)
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
stevenn@outerthought.org stevenn@apache.org
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
> We really need stats on 4.x usage for xml.apache.org to make a good
> judgement.
In site-dev@apache.org they said that the pages *must* be easily
viewable in lynx (text browser).
So we should cater for *all* browsers, regardless of the %.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: [ANNOUNCE] New site stats
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
>On Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 07:59:29PM -0500, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>
>
...
>>URL for the page is:
>> http://www.apache.org/~vgritsenko/stats/index.html
>>
>>
>
>Very nice :)
>
>
>
>>Images are updated daily (and some of them - weekly), at night. Site is
>>statically generated using Forrest.
>>
>>
>
>Are the charts generated by Cocoon too?
>
Charts are generated from the SVG using Batik and shell script. I was
not sure that infrastructure@ won't jump on me if i to regenerate the
whole site.
OTOH, regeneration of the whole site allows to brings much more
potential: add tables with actual figures, etc.
Vadim
>--Jeff
>
>
>
>>Please take a look and send your suggestions, opinions, flames.
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>Vadim
>>
>>
Re: [ANNOUNCE] New site stats
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 07:59:29PM -0500, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> Hi Forresters,
>
> We discussed a bit (with Steven) about building apache
> projects/hosts/etc stats, which is one of the tasks for the Forrest, so
> I guess this announcement is not completely offtopic on this list.
>
> I'd like to announce a page I put together which to show off some of the
> stats which I was able to extract from the log files (with minimum
> memory consumption). These stats in no sence are complete or correct,
> but an attemp to build complete and correct stats.
>
> URL for the page is:
> http://www.apache.org/~vgritsenko/stats/index.html
Very nice :)
> Images are updated daily (and some of them - weekly), at night. Site is
> statically generated using Forrest.
Are the charts generated by Cocoon too?
--Jeff
> Please take a look and send your suggestions, opinions, flames.
>
>
> Regards,
> Vadim
Re: [ANNOUNCE] New site stats
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
David Crossley wrote:
>Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>
>
>>Hi Forresters,
>>
>>We discussed a bit (with Steven) about building apache
>>projects/hosts/etc stats, which is one of the tasks for the Forrest, so
>>I guess this announcement is not completely offtopic on this list.
>>
>>I'd like to announce a page I put together which to show off some of the
>>stats which I was able to extract from the log files (with minimum
>>memory consumption). These stats in no sence are complete or correct,
>>but an attemp to build complete and correct stats.
>>
>>
>
>Brilliant stuff Vadim.
>
>
>
>>URL for the page is:
>> http://www.apache.org/~vgritsenko/stats/index.html
>>
>>Images are updated daily (and some of them - weekly), at night. Site is
>>statically generated using Forrest.
>>
>>Please take a look and send your suggestions, opinions, flames.
>>
>>
>
>I would like the Warning to be extended to say something like:
>"As with any statistics, you must take care with interpretation."
>
:)
>Is it possible while the stats are being generated, that
>some other information can be accumulated and stored as daily
>summaries? e.g. project downloads.
>
Yes.
>There was some discussion on this in Forrest's early days
>and a DTD was partially developed.
>
I see the main problem now is to cleanup/check quality of the numbers
generated, and to discuss what kind of data to be extracted in addition
to whatever we have now, and to decide what other grpahs to generate.
Vadim
> Here is one pointer
> Graph data
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=forrest-dev&m=101432422003463
>
>--David
>
>
>
Re: [ANNOUNCE] New site stats
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@indexgeo.com.au>.
Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> Hi Forresters,
>
> We discussed a bit (with Steven) about building apache
> projects/hosts/etc stats, which is one of the tasks for the Forrest, so
> I guess this announcement is not completely offtopic on this list.
>
> I'd like to announce a page I put together which to show off some of the
> stats which I was able to extract from the log files (with minimum
> memory consumption). These stats in no sence are complete or correct,
> but an attemp to build complete and correct stats.
Brilliant stuff Vadim.
> URL for the page is:
> http://www.apache.org/~vgritsenko/stats/index.html
>
> Images are updated daily (and some of them - weekly), at night. Site is
> statically generated using Forrest.
>
> Please take a look and send your suggestions, opinions, flames.
I would like the Warning to be extended to say something like:
"As with any statistics, you must take care with interpretation."
Is it possible while the stats are being generated, that
some other information can be accumulated and stored as daily
summaries? e.g. project downloads.
There was some discussion on this in Forrest's early days
and a DTD was partially developed. Here is one pointer
Graph data
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=forrest-dev&m=101432422003463
--David
Re: [ANNOUNCE] New site stats
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> Hi Forresters,
>
> We discussed a bit (with Steven) about building apache
> projects/hosts/etc stats, which is one of the tasks for the Forrest, so
> I guess this announcement is not completely offtopic on this list.
>
> I'd like to announce a page I put together which to show off some of the
> stats which I was able to extract from the log files (with minimum
> memory consumption). These stats in no sence are complete or correct,
> but an attemp to build complete and correct stats.
>
> URL for the page is:
> http://www.apache.org/~vgritsenko/stats/index.html
>
> Images are updated daily (and some of them - weekly), at night. Site is
> statically generated using Forrest.
>
> Please take a look and send your suggestions, opinions, flames.
I *LOVE* it!
I *LOVE* it!
I *LOVE* it!
I'm forwarding this to community@ right away.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: [ANNOUNCE] New site stats
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Steven Noels wrote:
> Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>
>> Hi Forresters,
>>
>> We discussed a bit (with Steven) about building apache
>> projects/hosts/etc stats, which is one of the tasks for the Forrest,
>> so I guess this announcement is not completely offtopic on this list.
>
>
> I don't feel like I should be credited, since you did all the hard work.
>
> You kick *ss, Vadim - thanks for putting this up. Could the sources
> for this application be made part of Forrest, or at least some common
> infrastructure? That way, we can take a look & augment.
The code sucks badly atm, and there are bugs in the script (like project
"icons"), which has to be fixed... Written in Perl (thanks to my
girlfriend for the exaplanations of the perl syntax and data
structures!). The main part is:
http://www.apache.org/~vgritsenko/stats/log-analyzer-daily.pl
Output is:
http://www.apache.org/~vgritsenko/stats/day-2002-11-08.txt
If somebody wants to tweak SVGs:
http://www.apache.org/~vgritsenko/stats/pie-daily-projects-requests.svg
http://www.apache.org/~vgritsenko/stats/trend-daily-projects-requests.svg
> I'm aware of the fact that these scripts need to run on Daedalus, but
> at least three of us have access, too.
>
> Again, many thanks. Can we call you Lord of Users and Stats from now?
>
> A toothbrush medal for private Vadim!
:)
Vadim
> </Steven>
Re: [ANNOUNCE] New site stats
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> Hi Forresters,
>
> We discussed a bit (with Steven) about building apache
> projects/hosts/etc stats, which is one of the tasks for the Forrest, so
> I guess this announcement is not completely offtopic on this list.
I don't feel like I should be credited, since you did all the hard work.
You kick *ss, Vadim - thanks for putting this up. Could the sources for
this application be made part of Forrest, or at least some common
infrastructure? That way, we can take a look & augment.
I'm aware of the fact that these scripts need to run on Daedalus, but at
least three of us have access, too.
Again, many thanks. Can we call you Lord of Users and Stats from now?
A toothbrush medal for private Vadim!
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
stevenn@outerthought.org stevenn@apache.org
Re: [ANNOUNCE] New site stats
Posted by Nick Chalko <ni...@chalko.com>.
>
> URL for the page is:
> http://www.apache.org/~vgritsenko/stats/index.html
Nice looking page.
I noticed a Forrest quirk
When I click on the stabe the Vladim's image moves.
It appears that the Breadcrumbs are effecting the placemnet of the
project logo.
R,
Nick
ps
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.2b) Gecko/20021016
Re: [ANNOUNCE] New site stats
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@indexgeo.com.au>.
Ivelin Ivanov wrote:
>
> Good stuff. This should be a publicly available page (off of the main site)
> for anyone to look.
As Vadim said, it has been on the Forrest task list for a long
time, to do this sort of thing and more. This is one of the
first community resources for Forrest to deliver, apart from the
brilliant document generation facilities.
I presume that the empty directory at
http://xml.apache.org/forrest/community/
is where this stuff belongs. So i am adding a basic page there
as we speak.
Thanks Vadim, it is great to see this. Dreams come true.
--David
> I am surprise to find 2 things:
>
> 1) traffic from xml. vs jakarta. is proportionate to the number of hits.
> Something which used to be out of balanse. Is this due to the lightweight
> nature of Forrest?
>
> 2) Cocoon is almost as popular as Struts. Why didn't I see Turbine or
> Velocity. Thought they are much more popular than Cocoon?
>
>
> Ivlein
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vadim Gritsenko" <va...@verizon.net>
> To: <fo...@xml.apache.org>
> Cc: "Steven Noels" <st...@outerthought.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 6:59 PM
> Subject: [ANNOUNCE] New site stats
>
>
> > Hi Forresters,
> >
> > We discussed a bit (with Steven) about building apache
> > projects/hosts/etc stats, which is one of the tasks for the Forrest, so
> > I guess this announcement is not completely offtopic on this list.
> >
> > I'd like to announce a page I put together which to show off some of the
> > stats which I was able to extract from the log files (with minimum
> > memory consumption). These stats in no sence are complete or correct,
> > but an attemp to build complete and correct stats.
> >
> > URL for the page is:
> > http://www.apache.org/~vgritsenko/stats/index.html
> >
> > Images are updated daily (and some of them - weekly), at night. Site is
> > statically generated using Forrest.
> >
> > Please take a look and send your suggestions, opinions, flames.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Vadim
> >
> >
> >
> > Steven Noels wrote:
> >
> > > Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> > >
> > > > This also can be done. My question is is this interesting to forrest
> > > > community or somebody else (you said , Sam?)...... or it's better for
> > > > me to drop all this nonsense and go and work on Cocoon bugs? :)
> > >
> > > It was one of the original plans for Forrest, to put up some stats up
> > > the different projects (downloads, mails sent on the lists, etc etc)
> > >
> > > What would be good is to have a low impact way of extracting whatever
> > > kind of data we can make sense of from the server logs (like
> > > user agents, top downloads, busiest website, etc etc).
> > >
> > > Now that we start playing with the idea of going independent with
> > > cocoon.apache.org, that should take into account aggregating several
> > > logs, too... Hmmmpff.
> > >
> > > I don't know ATM, maybe we should just take your data as a test stream
> > > and see how we can work with it in Forrest (for the xml.apache.org
> > > front site). And if people like it, they will add more streams and
> > > we'll finally have that 'Apache project dashboard' displaying all
> > > kinds of interesting (and other) data.
> > >
> > > My point was that finite steps are difficult to aggregate starting
> > > from XML, so maybe cumulative would be better. This all depends on the
> > > frequency of sampling of course - for weekly stats, you still can show
> > > them in a trend chart and make sense of it.
> > >
> > > But we'd better move this to forrest-dev so that others can tell their
> > > opinion too.
> > >
> > > </Steven>
> >
> >
>
Re: [ANNOUNCE] New site stats
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Ivelin Ivanov wrote:
>Good stuff. This should be a publicly available page (off of the main site)
>for anyone to look.
>
>I am surprise to find 2 things:
>
>1) traffic from xml. vs jakarta. is proportionate to the number of hits.
>Something which used to be out of balanse. Is this due to the lightweight
>nature of Forrest?
>
>2) Cocoon is almost as popular as Struts. Why didn't I see Turbine or
>Velocity. Thought they are much more popular than Cocoon?
>
They did not fit into the graphs. I decided to show only top performers
- to have more readable graphs.
Whole data can be shown in html tables.
Vadim
>Ivlein
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Vadim Gritsenko" <va...@verizon.net>
>To: <fo...@xml.apache.org>
>Cc: "Steven Noels" <st...@outerthought.org>
>Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 6:59 PM
>Subject: [ANNOUNCE] New site stats
>
>
>
>
>>Hi Forresters,
>>
>>We discussed a bit (with Steven) about building apache
>>projects/hosts/etc stats, which is one of the tasks for the Forrest, so
>>I guess this announcement is not completely offtopic on this list.
>>
>>I'd like to announce a page I put together which to show off some of the
>>stats which I was able to extract from the log files (with minimum
>>memory consumption). These stats in no sence are complete or correct,
>>but an attemp to build complete and correct stats.
>>
>>URL for the page is:
>> http://www.apache.org/~vgritsenko/stats/index.html
>>
>>Images are updated daily (and some of them - weekly), at night. Site is
>>statically generated using Forrest.
>>
>>Please take a look and send your suggestions, opinions, flames.
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>Vadim
>>
>>
>>
>>Steven Noels wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>This also can be done. My question is is this interesting to forrest
>>>>community or somebody else (you said , Sam?)...... or it's better for
>>>>me to drop all this nonsense and go and work on Cocoon bugs? :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>It was one of the original plans for Forrest, to put up some stats up
>>>the different projects (downloads, mails sent on the lists, etc etc)
>>>
>>>What would be good is to have a low impact way of extracting whatever
>>>kind of data we can make sense of from the server logs (like
>>>user agents, top downloads, busiest website, etc etc).
>>>
>>>Now that we start playing with the idea of going independent with
>>>cocoon.apache.org, that should take into account aggregating several
>>>logs, too... Hmmmpff.
>>>
>>>I don't know ATM, maybe we should just take your data as a test stream
>>>and see how we can work with it in Forrest (for the xml.apache.org
>>>front site). And if people like it, they will add more streams and
>>>we'll finally have that 'Apache project dashboard' displaying all
>>>kinds of interesting (and other) data.
>>>
>>>My point was that finite steps are difficult to aggregate starting
>>>from XML, so maybe cumulative would be better. This all depends on the
>>>frequency of sampling of course - for weekly stats, you still can show
>>>them in a trend chart and make sense of it.
>>>
>>>But we'd better move this to forrest-dev so that others can tell their
>>>opinion too.
>>>
>>></Steven>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Re: [ANNOUNCE] New site stats
Posted by Ivelin Ivanov <iv...@apache.org>.
Good stuff. This should be a publicly available page (off of the main site)
for anyone to look.
I am surprise to find 2 things:
1) traffic from xml. vs jakarta. is proportionate to the number of hits.
Something which used to be out of balanse. Is this due to the lightweight
nature of Forrest?
2) Cocoon is almost as popular as Struts. Why didn't I see Turbine or
Velocity. Thought they are much more popular than Cocoon?
Ivlein
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vadim Gritsenko" <va...@verizon.net>
To: <fo...@xml.apache.org>
Cc: "Steven Noels" <st...@outerthought.org>
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 6:59 PM
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] New site stats
> Hi Forresters,
>
> We discussed a bit (with Steven) about building apache
> projects/hosts/etc stats, which is one of the tasks for the Forrest, so
> I guess this announcement is not completely offtopic on this list.
>
> I'd like to announce a page I put together which to show off some of the
> stats which I was able to extract from the log files (with minimum
> memory consumption). These stats in no sence are complete or correct,
> but an attemp to build complete and correct stats.
>
> URL for the page is:
> http://www.apache.org/~vgritsenko/stats/index.html
>
> Images are updated daily (and some of them - weekly), at night. Site is
> statically generated using Forrest.
>
> Please take a look and send your suggestions, opinions, flames.
>
>
> Regards,
> Vadim
>
>
>
> Steven Noels wrote:
>
> > Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> >
> > > This also can be done. My question is is this interesting to forrest
> > > community or somebody else (you said , Sam?)...... or it's better for
> > > me to drop all this nonsense and go and work on Cocoon bugs? :)
> >
> > It was one of the original plans for Forrest, to put up some stats up
> > the different projects (downloads, mails sent on the lists, etc etc)
> >
> > What would be good is to have a low impact way of extracting whatever
> > kind of data we can make sense of from the server logs (like
> > user agents, top downloads, busiest website, etc etc).
> >
> > Now that we start playing with the idea of going independent with
> > cocoon.apache.org, that should take into account aggregating several
> > logs, too... Hmmmpff.
> >
> > I don't know ATM, maybe we should just take your data as a test stream
> > and see how we can work with it in Forrest (for the xml.apache.org
> > front site). And if people like it, they will add more streams and
> > we'll finally have that 'Apache project dashboard' displaying all
> > kinds of interesting (and other) data.
> >
> > My point was that finite steps are difficult to aggregate starting
> > from XML, so maybe cumulative would be better. This all depends on the
> > frequency of sampling of course - for weekly stats, you still can show
> > them in a trend chart and make sense of it.
> >
> > But we'd better move this to forrest-dev so that others can tell their
> > opinion too.
> >
> > </Steven>
>
>
[ANNOUNCE] New site stats
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Hi Forresters,
We discussed a bit (with Steven) about building apache
projects/hosts/etc stats, which is one of the tasks for the Forrest, so
I guess this announcement is not completely offtopic on this list.
I'd like to announce a page I put together which to show off some of the
stats which I was able to extract from the log files (with minimum
memory consumption). These stats in no sence are complete or correct,
but an attemp to build complete and correct stats.
URL for the page is:
http://www.apache.org/~vgritsenko/stats/index.html
Images are updated daily (and some of them - weekly), at night. Site is
statically generated using Forrest.
Please take a look and send your suggestions, opinions, flames.
Regards,
Vadim
Steven Noels wrote:
> Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>
> > This also can be done. My question is is this interesting to forrest
> > community or somebody else (you said , Sam?)...... or it's better for
> > me to drop all this nonsense and go and work on Cocoon bugs? :)
>
> It was one of the original plans for Forrest, to put up some stats up
> the different projects (downloads, mails sent on the lists, etc etc)
>
> What would be good is to have a low impact way of extracting whatever
> kind of data we can make sense of from the server logs (like
> user agents, top downloads, busiest website, etc etc).
>
> Now that we start playing with the idea of going independent with
> cocoon.apache.org, that should take into account aggregating several
> logs, too... Hmmmpff.
>
> I don't know ATM, maybe we should just take your data as a test stream
> and see how we can work with it in Forrest (for the xml.apache.org
> front site). And if people like it, they will add more streams and
> we'll finally have that 'Apache project dashboard' displaying all
> kinds of interesting (and other) data.
>
> My point was that finite steps are difficult to aggregate starting
> from XML, so maybe cumulative would be better. This all depends on the
> frequency of sampling of course - for weekly stats, you still can show
> them in a trend chart and make sense of it.
>
> But we'd better move this to forrest-dev so that others can tell their
> opinion too.
>
> </Steven>
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Steven Noels wrote:
> Steven Noels wrote:
>
>> Jeff Turner wrote:
>>
>>> We really need stats on 4.x usage for xml.apache.org to make a good
>>> judgement.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll try and make a browser usage analysis for the month of
>> september. I would be using analog or webalizer - does anyone else
>> has killer tips for log analyzers?
>>
>> </Steven>
>
>
> I put up an analysed log of 1 day (3.868.269 requests, 271.678
> gigabytes) on http://www.apache.org/~stevenn/browserstats/
>
> I'm not a browser User Agent dictionary, it seems to me that the first
> non-IE, probably-dated browser is identified by "Mozilla/3.01
> (compatible;)", totaling 2.11% of that day. And Mozilla at 1.26% :-(
Hi Steven,
As you see from the pie chart... It's quite useless to just count unique
browser agents. Without groupings, these statistics do not mean much.
I think all these agents should be grouped into several larger categories:
* MSIE 6.0+
* MSIE 5.5+
* MSIE 5.0+
* MSIE 4.0+
* Older MSIE
Similar groupings can be done for Netscape browsers, and for mozilla
ones (which has lots of different unique user-agents strings).
Then, pie chart will look different, a lot.
What do you think? Do you need some help to work this out?
Vadim
> OK, that's one day, and due to the sheer size of these logfiles and
> the current load-issues of daedalus I'm reluctant to run it across an
> entire month's worth of logs, but this already learns us something.
>
> The '10%' of older browsers on apache.org has been an urban city
> legend, IMO.
>
> </Steven>
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Steven Noels wrote:
> Jeff Turner wrote:
>
>> We really need stats on 4.x usage for xml.apache.org to make a good
>> judgement.
>
>
> I'll try and make a browser usage analysis for the month of september. I
> would be using analog or webalizer - does anyone else has killer tips
> for log analyzers?
>
> </Steven>
I put up an analysed log of 1 day (3.868.269 requests, 271.678
gigabytes) on http://www.apache.org/~stevenn/browserstats/
I'm not a browser User Agent dictionary, it seems to me that the first
non-IE, probably-dated browser is identified by "Mozilla/3.01
(compatible;)", totaling 2.11% of that day. And Mozilla at 1.26% :-(
OK, that's one day, and due to the sheer size of these logfiles and the
current load-issues of daedalus I'm reluctant to run it across an entire
month's worth of logs, but this already learns us something.
The '10%' of older browsers on apache.org has been an urban city legend,
IMO.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
stevenn@outerthought.org stevenn@apache.org
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
> We really need stats on 4.x usage for xml.apache.org to make a good
> judgement.
I'll try and make a browser usage analysis for the month of september. I
would be using analog or webalizer - does anyone else has killer tips
for log analyzers?
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
stevenn@outerthought.org stevenn@apache.org
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 10:15:01AM +0100, Bert Van Kets wrote:
> Can you tell me what pages are browser crashers?? I can take this up with
> some CSS gurus I know.
Someone posted this to cocoon-dev:
http://css.nu/pointers/bugs-nn.html
We really need stats on 4.x usage for xml.apache.org to make a good
judgement.
--Jeff
> Bert
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Bert Van Kets <be...@vankets.com>.
Can you tell me what pages are browser crashers?? I can take this up with
some CSS gurus I know.
Bert
At 10:11 28/10/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>Bert Van Kets wrote:
>
>>I just tested with NS4.79 on Win2K Server and had no problems.
>
>Under Linux (and other Unixes?), it is possible to use some pages as a
>browser crasher with NS4+. David can confirm this.
>
>I agree with your position that the NS4 version should not be visually
>identical, but we cannot afford to host a browser-crashing version of a
>site on apache.org
>
>Maybe we should do some more formal browsertesting. I have a Netscape 4 on
>Linux to offer (David too, I presume) - what we might need is some other
>Unix-dialects (Solaris, Irix and HP/UX) and Macs, I guess.
>
></Steven>
>--
>Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
>Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
>stevenn@outerthought.org stevenn@apache.org
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Bert Van Kets wrote:
> I just tested with NS4.79 on Win2K Server and had no problems.
Under Linux (and other Unixes?), it is possible to use some pages as a
browser crasher with NS4+. David can confirm this.
I agree with your position that the NS4 version should not be visually
identical, but we cannot afford to host a browser-crashing version of a
site on apache.org
Maybe we should do some more formal browsertesting. I have a Netscape 4
on Linux to offer (David too, I presume) - what we might need is some
other Unix-dialects (Solaris, Irix and HP/UX) and Macs, I guess.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
stevenn@outerthought.org stevenn@apache.org
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Posted by Bert Van Kets <be...@vankets.com>.
I just tested with NS4.79 on Win2K Server and had no problems.
Bert
At 16:04 25/10/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> >
> > I'm happy to inform you that I just committed the new version of the xml
> > site in CVS.
> >
> > If there are any problems, please contact
> >
> > forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
>
>Looks very nice in Konqueror and is _much_ faster than the former page, but
>Netscape 4.79 (comes with Red Hat 7.3) redirects me to
>http://xml.apache.org/skin/page.css which doesn't exist, so I get a 404 error.
>
>Now what am I going to do for test page with a bazillion .gifs? (just
>kidding -
>I'll find something)
>
>Greg