FW: Organizational analysis of ASF codebases

[Stephen McConnell <mc...@dpml.net>]

Historians may find the disconnect between this article and the opinions
of an elected representatives of the Avalon community an interesting
topic in an of itself.  The really interesting questions is if the board
accept the unpublished and unendorsed recommendations to the board by
that chair - or - if there is perhaps a bigger question to answer?

Cheers, Steve.


-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Brondsema [mailto:brondsem@apache.org] 
Sent: 12 November 2004 03:50
To: community@apache.org
Subject: Organizational analysis of ASF codebases


http://libresoft.dat.escet.urjc.es/html/downloads/woss-icse-2004.pdf

I hadn't seen this before; hopefully others will find this interesting
also.

-- 
Dave Brondsema


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RE: FW: Organizational analysis of ASF codebases

[Santiago Gala <sg...@hisitech.com>]

On Sun, 2004-11-14 at 03:46 +0100, Stephen McConnell wrote:
(...)
> > Five pages of graph theory - proving what? Seriously, what the hell
> is
> > this?

I've noticed big factual errors in the paper, like the size of the
Jetspeed blob in the last drawing with names, and the absence of
Turbine, which was actually more than double Jetspeed's size at the
time.

So I would be careful to use these results without having further access
to raw data they used

Regards
-- 
Santiago Gala <sg...@hisitech.com>
High Sierra Technology, SLU

RE: FW: Organizational analysis of ASF codebases

[Stephen McConnell <mc...@dpml.net>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leo Sutic [mailto:leo.sutic@gmail.com]
> Sent: 13 November 2004 16:30
> To: Avalon Developers List
> Subject: Re: FW: Organizational analysis of ASF codebases
> 
> Steve,
> 
> you're known for responding with extremely verbose emails that few, if
> any, understand the point of. 

You right - I've written a few longish email in my time.  

> I think you've outdone yourself now.

Nah - that was short - the link my have been longish but the content was
interesting and we can hardly make me responsible for the content of the
work of someone else (although I really should doubt that if you believe
everything you read on the members list).

> Five pages of graph theory - proving what? Seriously, what the hell is
> this?

What it demonstrates in a quasi natural evolution of communities though
a process of division. And yet in the case of Avalon - the natural
division has been interfered with by a member of the Board of Directors
of the Apache Software Foundation that has a stated objective of killing
the project. If we contrast the natural progression with the Avalon
progression - something is wrong.  Why is it that when the community
majority wishes to move in a particular direction - one fork of the
division is killed?  Could it be because of the actions of Stefano
following his stated agenda?  Could it be a result of the unwillingness
of the Chair of the Apache Software Foundation to stand up and stop
something that was driven by ignorance of the real facts?  Will the
Members of the Board of the Apache Software Foundation endorse these
actions as part of their role of supporting the community that has
contributed in volume to this organization?

> If you want to do make a procedural case for the closing of Avalon
> being somehow against Apache rules, then make that case. But make it
> properly. What rules do you base your argument on? Why do they apply
> in this case?

On the point of procedure - the Board of Director may choose to close
down Avalon.  The point of interest concerns their justification for
this action.  At this time there has been no community decision to do
this (just attacks on individual contributors - largely on private list
to the benefit of Members).  At the level of the PMC there have been no
decisions on this point (largely a function of the fact that all the
primary committers have left the PMC in disgust or frustration to the
continued intervention of Apache Members and hove chosen to continue
outside of the foundation).

> While you have whined about a lot of things, you have yet to provide a
> serious and coherent argument as to why you are right and everybody
> else is wrong. 

There is noting in what I have said that suggests anyone is wrong.  I
have suggested that Stefano's actions are not necessarily in-line with
the stated objectives of the foundation - but that's an issue for the
Apache Board of Directors. I have also suggested that Aaron is in a bad
position and I've attempted to point out to him that he could easily be
pushed into a context where he is be used and the bunny to take the
fall. On that point I'm uncomfortable because I was one of the people to
nominate Aaron to the job he's now holding - and nothing you can say
will remove that fact that Aaron is being screwed good and proper by
this organization.

> Just hinting around that perhaps, maybe, conceivably,
> there might just be something unexplained somewhere, that just maybe,
> possibly, might, perhaps be possible to interpreted in a way as to
> bolster your argument does not cut it.

Stefano - can I quote your protected emails?

do any of you you objections if I quote you 'protected' list emails? 

> We'll listen to reason, not to vague hints.

Let's try and close this with at lest a token degree on honesty.

Stefano - ball is in your court.

Stephen.




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Re: FW: Organizational analysis of ASF codebases

[Leo Sutic <le...@gmail.com>]

Steve,

you're known for responding with extremely verbose emails that few, if
any, understand the point of. I think you've outdone yourself now.
Five pages of graph theory - proving what? Seriously, what the hell is
this?

If you want to do make a procedural case for the closing of Avalon
being somehow against Apache rules, then make that case. But make it
properly. What rules do you base your argument on? Why do they apply
in this case?

While you have whined about a lot of things, you have yet to provide a
serious and coherent argument as to why you are right and everybody
else is wrong. Just hinting around that perhaps, maybe, conceivably,
there might just be something unexplained somewhere, that just maybe,
possibly, might, perhaps be possible to interpreted in a way as to
bolster your argument does not cut it.

We'll listen to reason, not to vague hints.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 04:41:45 +0100, Stephen McConnell
<mc...@dpml.net> wrote:
> a bigger question to answer?

Yes - why do you disgrace yourself like this?

/LS

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