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Posted to users@myfaces.apache.org by Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> on 2005/08/27 08:47:10 UTC
Suns RI has been released under CDDL
I just wonder what this will mean for the myfaces core?
http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=36160
Werner
Re: Suns RI has been released under CDDL
Posted by Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>.
On 8/27/05, Matthias Wessendorf <mw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/27/05, Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> wrote:
> > I hope it will make things easier, I do not know the CDDL but I assume
> > it is some kind of LGPL derivate,
>
> :) think so too, but then ASF's jsf version is *free* 8-)
>
>
> > but even if the myfaces people cannot take code directly from it, at
> > least there now is a chance to check out the sources on how the RI does
> > instead of having to go over the reverse engineering/blackbox testing way.
>
> well, on java.net there is allready the source available. So I don't
> see any news in this topic, perhaps only licencing stuff changed...
That's correct ... same code, more liberal license.
>
> > Ideal would be if Sun could warm up to the idea to put the RI into
> > something BSDish, sort of using an apache project as RI, just like they
> > do it with Tomcat for the JSP/Servlet core of their stuff.
>
> Is Tomcat really the RI ? I think no.
> Its website states out:
> <snip>
> Apache Tomcat is the servlet container that is used in the official
> Reference Implementation for the Java Servlet and JavaServer Pages
> technologies. The Java Servlet and JavaServer Pages specifications are
> developed by Sun under the Java Community Process.
> </snip>
>
Tomcat is often mis-characterized as the RI. Code from Tomcat is
indeed *used* in the RI (which, for all the J2EE specs, is the J2EE
SDK you can get from sun.com), and Tomcat itself has been tested with
the TCKs for servlet and JSP, but it's not "the" RI.
Craig
Re: Suns RI has been released under CDDL
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <mw...@gmail.com>.
On 8/27/05, Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> wrote:
> I hope it will make things easier, I do not know the CDDL but I assume
> it is some kind of LGPL derivate,
:) think so too, but then ASF's jsf version is *free* 8-)
> but even if the myfaces people cannot take code directly from it, at
> least there now is a chance to check out the sources on how the RI does
> instead of having to go over the reverse engineering/blackbox testing way.
well, on java.net there is allready the source available. So I don't
see any news in this topic, perhaps only licencing stuff changed...
> Ideal would be if Sun could warm up to the idea to put the RI into
> something BSDish, sort of using an apache project as RI, just like they
> do it with Tomcat for the JSP/Servlet core of their stuff.
Is Tomcat really the RI ? I think no.
Its website states out:
<snip>
Apache Tomcat is the servlet container that is used in the official
Reference Implementation for the Java Servlet and JavaServer Pages
technologies. The Java Servlet and JavaServer Pages specifications are
developed by Sun under the Java Community Process.
</snip>
However, a BSDish RI stuff for JSF would be fine, yes!
Matthias
> That model
> has worked the best for them in the past, and probably would work for
> JSF as well, having one project under the Apache Umbrella being the RI
> and also a good solid codebase where vendors can take over and other
> sideprojects can concentrate on the component sets and extension libs.
>
> But having it under the CDDL is at least a big improvement over the past
> of having the specs and a close sourced RI.
>
> Werner
>
>
>
>
> Matthias Wessendorf wrote:
> > Well, I am not a lawer and so I don't know the detailed difs between
> > those both licences. But, I see no problem in having an "open source"
> > RI
> >
> > -Matthias
> > On 8/27/05, Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> wrote:
> >
> >>I just wonder what this will mean for the myfaces core?
> >>
> >>
> >>http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=36160
> >>
> >>
> >>Werner
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Matthias Wessendorf
Zülpicher Wall 12, 239
50674 Köln
Re: Suns RI has been released under CDDL
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <mw...@gmail.com>.
> If the ASF Board deems the license compatible (on the agenda soon),
> that would indeed be possible, as would using code from it (or other
> CDDL projects -- this is the same license that Project Glassfish, the
> J2EE 1.4 app server, is under).
the interesting thing is, that the glassfish folks have allready an el
implementation for faces 1.2 and jsp 2.1 (unfied el)
-Matthias
Re: Suns RI has been released under CDDL
Posted by "ir. ing. Jan Dockx" <ja...@mac.com>.
On 28 Aug 2005, at 16:55, Werner Punz wrote:
> Craig McClanahan wrote:
>> CDDL *is* open source. It *can* be used freely (under the license
>> terms, just ike anything else, but please read it before you make
>> incorrect assumptions). It *is* being developed in an open project
>> (at java.net).
>> For the market as a whole, it just means there will be two open source
>> impementations of the spec.
> Just as a minor question, if the ASF accepts the CDDL license as
> apache2 compatible, wouldnt it make more sense, to base future
> myfaces-core versions directly on the ri and try to improve the core
> code from there?
> After all, we have sort of a reinventing the wheel situation there
> which was caused by licensing issues in the past.
> Wouldnt it be better to have most of the work going into tomahawk
> and other extensions and push myfaces sort of into the direction
> of an improved RI?
Would be possible. Only, we know from experience and code inspection
that the MyFaces implementation is a lot more stable than the current
Sun RI (although lower on code documentation).
>
>
>
>
> Werner
>
>
Met vriendelijke groeten,
Jan Dockx
PeopleWare NV - Head Office
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Re: Suns RI has been released under CDDL
Posted by Mike Kienenberger <mk...@gmail.com>.
On 8/28/05, Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> wrote:
> Just as a minor question, if the ASF accepts the CDDL license as apache2
> compatible, wouldnt it make more sense, to base future myfaces-core
> versions directly on the ri and try to improve the core code from there?
> After all, we have sort of a reinventing the wheel situation there
> which was caused by licensing issues in the past.
> Wouldnt it be better to have most of the work going into tomahawk
> and other extensions and push myfaces sort of into the direction
> of an improved RI?
Having two separate implementations exposes "bugs" in the RI, or at
least places where the specification is weak.
If everything is based off the same source code, you don't get the
increased "coverage" of the spec.
-Mike
Re: Suns RI has been released under CDDL
Posted by Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at>.
Craig McClanahan wrote:
>
> CDDL *is* open source. It *can* be used freely (under the license
> terms, just ike anything else, but please read it before you make
> incorrect assumptions). It *is* being developed in an open project
> (at java.net).
>
> For the market as a whole, it just means there will be two open source
> impementations of the spec.
>
>
Just as a minor question, if the ASF accepts the CDDL license as apache2
compatible, wouldnt it make more sense, to base future myfaces-core
versions directly on the ri and try to improve the core code from there?
After all, we have sort of a reinventing the wheel situation there
which was caused by licensing issues in the past.
Wouldnt it be better to have most of the work going into tomahawk
and other extensions and push myfaces sort of into the direction
of an improved RI?
Werner
Re: Suns RI has been released under CDDL
Posted by Martin Marinschek <ma...@gmail.com>.
Yes.
more competition makes things better for the users ;)
regards,
Martin
On 8/27/05, Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/27/05, Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> wrote:
> > I hope it will make things easier, I do not know the CDDL but I assume
> > it is some kind of LGPL derivate,
>
> Not a good assumption. CDDL is broadly based on the Mozilla Public
> License, and has been approved by the OSI.
>
> > but even if the myfaces people cannot take code directly from it,
>
> If the ASF Board deems the license compatible (on the agenda soon),
> that would indeed be possible, as would using code from it (or other
> CDDL projects -- this is the same license that Project Glassfish, the
> J2EE 1.4 app server, is under).
>
> > at
> > least there now is a chance to check out the sources on how the RI does
> > instead of having to go over the reverse engineering/blackbox testing way.
> >
> > Ideal would be if Sun could warm up to the idea to put the RI into
> > something BSDish, sort of using an apache project as RI, just like they
> > do it with Tomcat for the JSP/Servlet core of their stuff. That model
> > has worked the best for them in the past, and probably would work for
> > JSF as well, having one project under the Apache Umbrella being the RI
> > and also a good solid codebase where vendors can take over and other
> > sideprojects can concentrate on the component sets and extension libs.
> >
> > But having it under the CDDL is at least a big improvement over the past
> > of having the specs and a close sourced RI.
> >
>
> CDDL *is* open source. It *can* be used freely (under the license
> terms, just ike anything else, but please read it before you make
> incorrect assumptions). It *is* being developed in an open project
> (at java.net).
>
> For the market as a whole, it just means there will be two open source
> impementations of the spec.
>
> > Werner
>
> Craig
>
--
http://www.irian.at
Your JSF powerhouse -
JSF Trainings in English and German
Re: Suns RI has been released under CDDL
Posted by Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>.
On 8/27/05, Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> wrote:
> I hope it will make things easier, I do not know the CDDL but I assume
> it is some kind of LGPL derivate,
Not a good assumption. CDDL is broadly based on the Mozilla Public
License, and has been approved by the OSI.
> but even if the myfaces people cannot take code directly from it,
If the ASF Board deems the license compatible (on the agenda soon),
that would indeed be possible, as would using code from it (or other
CDDL projects -- this is the same license that Project Glassfish, the
J2EE 1.4 app server, is under).
> at
> least there now is a chance to check out the sources on how the RI does
> instead of having to go over the reverse engineering/blackbox testing way.
>
> Ideal would be if Sun could warm up to the idea to put the RI into
> something BSDish, sort of using an apache project as RI, just like they
> do it with Tomcat for the JSP/Servlet core of their stuff. That model
> has worked the best for them in the past, and probably would work for
> JSF as well, having one project under the Apache Umbrella being the RI
> and also a good solid codebase where vendors can take over and other
> sideprojects can concentrate on the component sets and extension libs.
>
> But having it under the CDDL is at least a big improvement over the past
> of having the specs and a close sourced RI.
>
CDDL *is* open source. It *can* be used freely (under the license
terms, just ike anything else, but please read it before you make
incorrect assumptions). It *is* being developed in an open project
(at java.net).
For the market as a whole, it just means there will be two open source
impementations of the spec.
> Werner
Craig
Re: Suns RI has been released under CDDL
Posted by Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at>.
I hope it will make things easier, I do not know the CDDL but I assume
it is some kind of LGPL derivate,
but even if the myfaces people cannot take code directly from it, at
least there now is a chance to check out the sources on how the RI does
instead of having to go over the reverse engineering/blackbox testing way.
Ideal would be if Sun could warm up to the idea to put the RI into
something BSDish, sort of using an apache project as RI, just like they
do it with Tomcat for the JSP/Servlet core of their stuff. That model
has worked the best for them in the past, and probably would work for
JSF as well, having one project under the Apache Umbrella being the RI
and also a good solid codebase where vendors can take over and other
sideprojects can concentrate on the component sets and extension libs.
But having it under the CDDL is at least a big improvement over the past
of having the specs and a close sourced RI.
Werner
Matthias Wessendorf wrote:
> Well, I am not a lawer and so I don't know the detailed difs between
> those both licences. But, I see no problem in having an "open source"
> RI
>
> -Matthias
> On 8/27/05, Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> wrote:
>
>>I just wonder what this will mean for the myfaces core?
>>
>>
>>http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=36160
>>
>>
>>Werner
>>
>>
>
>
>
Re: Suns RI has been released under CDDL
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <mw...@gmail.com>.
Well, I am not a lawer and so I don't know the detailed difs between
those both licences. But, I see no problem in having an "open source"
RI
-Matthias
On 8/27/05, Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> wrote:
> I just wonder what this will mean for the myfaces core?
>
>
> http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=36160
>
>
> Werner
>
>
--
Matthias Wessendorf
Zülpicher Wall 12, 239
50674 Köln