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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by "Jostein Chr. Andersen" <jo...@josander.net> on 2004/05/28 19:51:36 UTC
Re: SVN as windows service?
On Monday 24 May 2004 22.43, Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:
> On Mon, 2004-05-24 at 15:40, Toby Johnson wrote:
> > I don't blame Subversion's authors at all for not including this
> > support for Windows. Starting a daemon on Unix is as easy as a
> > fork(). Windows requires you to jump through crazy hoops to get this
> > functionality.
>
> Actually, I believe that Jostein Anderson is working on writing a real
> 'service' for svnserve. He intends to include it in the win32
> install-wizard someday.
Oh, I have missed this posting, but I can answer/comment it anyway.
I don't know how to turn svnserve into a real service under Windows and I
don't think that I have time to learn how to do it within a very near
future (well I might try in the beginning of the next week).
How does Apache do it? Is this an Apache or APR issue? I can't imagine
that's black belt programming when making svnserve to run as a real
service under Windows.
It would be nice if someone can code it or give me a starting point of
turning svnserve for Windows into a real service.
Jostein
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by Patrick Mayweg <ma...@qint.de>.
Hi Greg,
Greg Hudson wrote:
>On Sun, 2004-05-30 at 01:09, Patrick Mayweg wrote:
>
>
>>The 1400 lines of apache code deal with running on win9x/me and on
>>winnt/2k/xp/2k3. Since running svnserve on win9x/me is not an option
>>anyway
>>
>>
>
>Is that really true any more, with FSFS?
>
>(Not that it would necessarily be worthwhile...)
>
>
>
Sorry that I forgot about FSFS.
But I would not suggest running any service on win98. The last time I
developed software on win9x, it was one debugger run needed one reboot.
Patrick
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by Patrick Mayweg <ma...@qint.de>.
Hi Greg,
Greg Hudson wrote:
>On Sun, 2004-05-30 at 01:09, Patrick Mayweg wrote:
>
>
>>The 1400 lines of apache code deal with running on win9x/me and on
>>winnt/2k/xp/2k3. Since running svnserve on win9x/me is not an option
>>anyway
>>
>>
>
>Is that really true any more, with FSFS?
>
>(Not that it would necessarily be worthwhile...)
>
>
>
Sorry that I forgot about FSFS.
But I would not suggest running any service on win98. The last time I
developed software on win9x, it was one debugger run needed one reboot.
Patrick
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by Greg Hudson <gh...@MIT.EDU>.
On Sun, 2004-05-30 at 01:09, Patrick Mayweg wrote:
> The 1400 lines of apache code deal with running on win9x/me and on
> winnt/2k/xp/2k3. Since running svnserve on win9x/me is not an option
> anyway
Is that really true any more, with FSFS?
(Not that it would necessarily be worthwhile...)
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by Greg Hudson <gh...@MIT.EDU>.
On Sun, 2004-05-30 at 01:09, Patrick Mayweg wrote:
> The 1400 lines of apache code deal with running on win9x/me and on
> winnt/2k/xp/2k3. Since running svnserve on win9x/me is not an option
> anyway
Is that really true any more, with FSFS?
(Not that it would necessarily be worthwhile...)
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by Patrick Mayweg <ma...@qint.de>.
Hi Greg,
Greg Hudson wrote:
>On Sat, 2004-05-29 at 13:04, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote:
>
>
>>If we want to have a "real" service, then we must edit the existing code
>>for svnserve.
>>I will probably manage to do this, but it will take long time (my c
>>knowledge is limited, as an example, I used 3 days when writing my first
>>usable C program: packages/win32-innosetup/tools/svnpath/main.c, and
>>that program do still have some issues).
>>
>>
>
>This isn't going to help, but: I'm going to pretty much insist that code
>of this nature go into APR behind a nice clean interface, not into
>svnserve itself. The amount of non-Subversion logic in svnserve should
>be minimized. Just as not every APR-using Unix daemon should have to
>implement all the Unix-specific daemon logic (although it's only a few
>lines of code), not every APR-using Windows service should have to
>implement all the Windows-specific service logic, especially since it
>seems to bottom out at a hundred lines of code or so. (And Apache seems
>to spend almost 1500 lines of code on it.)
>
>
>
The 1400 lines of apache code deal with running on win9x/me and on
winnt/2k/xp/2k3. Since running svnserve on win9x/me is not an option
anyway, that would mean only half or less of the code for svnserve.
Putting that code into apr would either mean one has to separated the
module into 3 parts (win9x, winnt and switching code) or we have to link
to the win9x code, which we do not need.
Could any of our apr committers say if moving the code from the
mpm/winnt to apr is an option.
Patrick
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by Patrick Mayweg <ma...@qint.de>.
Hi Greg,
Greg Hudson wrote:
>On Sat, 2004-05-29 at 13:04, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote:
>
>
>>If we want to have a "real" service, then we must edit the existing code
>>for svnserve.
>>I will probably manage to do this, but it will take long time (my c
>>knowledge is limited, as an example, I used 3 days when writing my first
>>usable C program: packages/win32-innosetup/tools/svnpath/main.c, and
>>that program do still have some issues).
>>
>>
>
>This isn't going to help, but: I'm going to pretty much insist that code
>of this nature go into APR behind a nice clean interface, not into
>svnserve itself. The amount of non-Subversion logic in svnserve should
>be minimized. Just as not every APR-using Unix daemon should have to
>implement all the Unix-specific daemon logic (although it's only a few
>lines of code), not every APR-using Windows service should have to
>implement all the Windows-specific service logic, especially since it
>seems to bottom out at a hundred lines of code or so. (And Apache seems
>to spend almost 1500 lines of code on it.)
>
>
>
The 1400 lines of apache code deal with running on win9x/me and on
winnt/2k/xp/2k3. Since running svnserve on win9x/me is not an option
anyway, that would mean only half or less of the code for svnserve.
Putting that code into apr would either mean one has to separated the
module into 3 parts (win9x, winnt and switching code) or we have to link
to the win9x code, which we do not need.
Could any of our apr committers say if moving the code from the
mpm/winnt to apr is an option.
Patrick
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by Greg Hudson <gh...@MIT.EDU>.
On Sat, 2004-05-29 at 13:04, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote:
> If we want to have a "real" service, then we must edit the existing code
> for svnserve.
> I will probably manage to do this, but it will take long time (my c
> knowledge is limited, as an example, I used 3 days when writing my first
> usable C program: packages/win32-innosetup/tools/svnpath/main.c, and
> that program do still have some issues).
This isn't going to help, but: I'm going to pretty much insist that code
of this nature go into APR behind a nice clean interface, not into
svnserve itself. The amount of non-Subversion logic in svnserve should
be minimized. Just as not every APR-using Unix daemon should have to
implement all the Unix-specific daemon logic (although it's only a few
lines of code), not every APR-using Windows service should have to
implement all the Windows-specific service logic, especially since it
seems to bottom out at a hundred lines of code or so. (And Apache seems
to spend almost 1500 lines of code on it.)
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by "Jostein Chr. Andersen" <jo...@josander.net>.
On Saturday 29 May 2004 13.59, Patrick Mayweg wrote:
...
> >How does Apache do it? Is this an Apache or APR issue? I can't
> > imagine that's black belt programming when making svnserve to run as
> > a real service under Windows.
>
> The service code of apache is in server/mpm/winnt/service.c. Running
> as a service consists of 2 seperate task.
> 1. Using the service control manager to add or remove the service to
> the system.
> 2. Running as a service. This means comminicating with the service
> control manager for starting and stoping the service and running the
> real service normally as a seperate thread.
Thanks! This is the starting point I need.
The installer itself will deal with point 1 without problems. My problem
is point 2.
If we want to have a "real" service, then we must edit the existing code
for svnserve.
I will probably manage to do this, but it will take long time (my c
knowledge is limited, as an example, I used 3 days when writing my first
usable C program: packages/win32-innosetup/tools/svnpath/main.c, and
that program do still have some issues).
> Is is not black belt programming, but having a sample helps.
I think I found enought examples and C tutorials on the 'net about it.
> >It would be nice if someone can code it or give me a starting point
> > of turning svnserve for Windows into a real service.
>
> I have any questions about this, feel free to contact me via personal
> mail.
Thanks, I will (if you don't start coding it :-).
However, It might be a good idea to use the wrapper http://
dark.clansoft.dk/~mbn/svnservice/ which is suggested several places, but
a real service would be nice..
Jostein
--
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by "Jostein Chr. Andersen" <jo...@josander.net>.
On Saturday 29 May 2004 13.59, Patrick Mayweg wrote:
...
> >How does Apache do it? Is this an Apache or APR issue? I can't
> > imagine that's black belt programming when making svnserve to run as
> > a real service under Windows.
>
> The service code of apache is in server/mpm/winnt/service.c. Running
> as a service consists of 2 seperate task.
> 1. Using the service control manager to add or remove the service to
> the system.
> 2. Running as a service. This means comminicating with the service
> control manager for starting and stoping the service and running the
> real service normally as a seperate thread.
Thanks! This is the starting point I need.
The installer itself will deal with point 1 without problems. My problem
is point 2.
If we want to have a "real" service, then we must edit the existing code
for svnserve.
I will probably manage to do this, but it will take long time (my c
knowledge is limited, as an example, I used 3 days when writing my first
usable C program: packages/win32-innosetup/tools/svnpath/main.c, and
that program do still have some issues).
> Is is not black belt programming, but having a sample helps.
I think I found enought examples and C tutorials on the 'net about it.
> >It would be nice if someone can code it or give me a starting point
> > of turning svnserve for Windows into a real service.
>
> I have any questions about this, feel free to contact me via personal
> mail.
Thanks, I will (if you don't start coding it :-).
However, It might be a good idea to use the wrapper http://
dark.clansoft.dk/~mbn/svnservice/ which is suggested several places, but
a real service would be nice..
Jostein
--
http://www.josander.net/en/contact/
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by M <ma...@gmx.de>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
| If a service wrapper will be included in the installer, then svnservice
| will probably the program to use.
|
| Do you use it? If so, wich Windows version?
Win XP Professional
Version 2002
Service Pack 1
C:\>svn --version
svn, version 1.0.4 (r9844)
~ compiled May 22 2004, 02:36:50
Copyright (C) 2000-2004 CollabNet.
Subversion is open source software, see http://subversion.tigris.org/
This product includes software developed by CollabNet
(http://www.Collab.Net/).
The following repository access (RA) modules are available:
* ra_dav : Module for accessing a repository via WebDAV (DeltaV) protocol.
~ - handles 'http' schema
~ - handles 'https' schema
* ra_local : Module for accessing a repository on local disk.
~ - handles 'file' schema
* ra_svn : Module for accessing a repository using the svn network protocol.
~ - handles 'svn' schema
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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X9uvwhiQcerPPXc3dyiIaJ8=
=1Dp+
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by "Jostein Chr. Andersen" <jo...@josander.net>.
On Saturday 29 May 2004 12.33, M wrote:
> | IMHO, we should use native Windows solutions only.
>
> What's wrong with http://dark.clansoft.dk/~mbn/svnservice/ ?
> It's small, available in source and works fine. Are there license
> issues?
Nothing is wrong, and it's public domain, so it should not be any
licensing issues AFAIK. I will test and evaluate this one too.
If a service wrapper will be included in the installer, then svnservice
will probably the program to use.
Do you use it? If so, wich Windows version?
J.
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by "Jostein Chr. Andersen" <jo...@josander.net>.
On Saturday 29 May 2004 12.33, M wrote:
> | IMHO, we should use native Windows solutions only.
>
> What's wrong with http://dark.clansoft.dk/~mbn/svnservice/ ?
> It's small, available in source and works fine. Are there license
> issues?
Nothing is wrong, and it's public domain, so it should not be any
licensing issues AFAIK. I will test and evaluate this one too.
If a service wrapper will be included in the installer, then svnservice
will probably the program to use.
Do you use it? If so, wich Windows version?
J.
--
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by M <ma...@gmx.de>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
| IMHO, we should use native Windows solutions only.
What's wrong with http://dark.clansoft.dk/~mbn/svnservice/ ?
It's small, available in source and works fine. Are there license issues?
M
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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=K7K3
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by "Jostein Chr. Andersen" <jo...@josander.net>.
On Saturday 29 May 2004 00.50, Olaf Dietsche wrote:
...
> cygwin has a utility named cygrunsrv, which allows to start programs
> as a service. Source is available, of course:
> <http://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/windows/cygwin/release/cygrunsrv/>
IMHO, we should use native Windows solutions only.
Jostein
--
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by "Jostein Chr. Andersen" <jo...@josander.net>.
On Friday 28 May 2004 23.36, Toby Johnson wrote:
> Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote:
> >How does Apache do it? Is this an Apache or APR issue?
>
> No, using svnserve has nothing to do with Apache.
Rephrasing:
How does Apache run as a service? Is this an Apache or APR issue? :-)
> >I can't imagine
> >that's black belt programming when making svnserve to run as a real
> >service under Windows.
>
> You wouldn't think so, but it's no small task either. It's not a
> simple task of "daemonizing" (i.e. disconnecting from STDIN and STDOUT
> while continuing to run) as it is on *nix, because you also want it to
> run when no one is logged in to the machine. You have to create a
> Windows service to do that.
That's what I want (create a Windows service) and I've found several
links on the 'net on how to do it.
> However, have you looked at firedaemon.com yet? Their tool is *very*
> stable and works extremely well, and the Lite version (which is all
> you need if you only have one service to install) is free.
Yes, and the firedaemon and several other wrappers has been presented
many times on this and the dev list.
I will avoid wrappers if possible and if a wrapper must be used, then I
want to use a home growned one and if that takes to much time..
..then I will probably use a wrapper like firedaemon or some of the other
solutions that can be downloaded from the 'net during installation with
the Windows installer.
Jostein
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by "Jostein Chr. Andersen" <jo...@josander.net>.
On Saturday 29 May 2004 00.50, Olaf Dietsche wrote:
...
> cygwin has a utility named cygrunsrv, which allows to start programs
> as a service. Source is available, of course:
> <http://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/windows/cygwin/release/cygrunsrv/>
IMHO, we should use native Windows solutions only.
Jostein
--
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by Patrick Mayweg <ma...@qint.de>.
Hi Jostein,
Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote:
>On Monday 24 May 2004 22.43, Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:
>
>
>>On Mon, 2004-05-24 at 15:40, Toby Johnson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't blame Subversion's authors at all for not including this
>>>support for Windows. Starting a daemon on Unix is as easy as a
>>>fork(). Windows requires you to jump through crazy hoops to get this
>>>functionality.
>>>
>>>
>>Actually, I believe that Jostein Anderson is working on writing a real
>>'service' for svnserve. He intends to include it in the win32
>>install-wizard someday.
>>
>>
>
>Oh, I have missed this posting, but I can answer/comment it anyway.
>
>I don't know how to turn svnserve into a real service under Windows and I
>don't think that I have time to learn how to do it within a very near
>future (well I might try in the beginning of the next week).
>
>How does Apache do it? Is this an Apache or APR issue? I can't imagine
>that's black belt programming when making svnserve to run as a real
>service under Windows.
>
>
The service code of apache is in server/mpm/winnt/service.c. Running as
a service consists of 2 seperate task.
1. Using the service control manager to add or remove the service to the
system.
2. Running as a service. This means comminicating with the service
control manager for starting and stoping the service and running the
real service normally as a seperate thread.
Is is not black belt programming, but having a sample helps.
>It would be nice if someone can code it or give me a starting point of
>turning svnserve for Windows into a real service.
>
>
I have any questions about this, feel free to contact me via personal mail.
>Jostein
>
>
>
Patrick
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by Mark Benedetto King <mb...@lowlatency.com>.
On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 09:51:36PM +0200, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote:
>
> How does Apache do it? Is this an Apache or APR issue? I can't imagine
> that's black belt programming when making svnserve to run as a real
> service under Windows.
>
It's hard to get exactly right, so many people just use srvany.exe
--ben
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by Jeremy Bettis <je...@deadbeef.com>.
Yes, actually Windows services are "black belt programming". Here are some
pointers to get you started in the right direction.
http://www.microsoft.com/msj/1097/WINNT.aspx
http://www.muukka.net/programming/service.html
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article1899.asp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jostein Chr. Andersen" <jo...@josander.net>
To: <us...@subversion.tigris.org>; <de...@subversion.tigris.org>
Cc: "Ben Collins-Sussman" <su...@collab.net>; "Toby Johnson"
<to...@etjohnson.us>
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: SVN as windows service?
> On Monday 24 May 2004 22.43, Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:
> > On Mon, 2004-05-24 at 15:40, Toby Johnson wrote:
> > > I don't blame Subversion's authors at all for not including this
> > > support for Windows. Starting a daemon on Unix is as easy as a
> > > fork(). Windows requires you to jump through crazy hoops to get this
> > > functionality.
> >
> > Actually, I believe that Jostein Anderson is working on writing a real
> > 'service' for svnserve. He intends to include it in the win32
> > install-wizard someday.
>
> Oh, I have missed this posting, but I can answer/comment it anyway.
>
> I don't know how to turn svnserve into a real service under Windows and I
> don't think that I have time to learn how to do it within a very near
> future (well I might try in the beginning of the next week).
>
> How does Apache do it? Is this an Apache or APR issue? I can't imagine
> that's black belt programming when making svnserve to run as a real
> service under Windows.
>
> It would be nice if someone can code it or give me a starting point of
> turning svnserve for Windows into a real service.
>
> Jostein
>
> --
> http://www.josander.net/en/contact/
>
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>
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by Olaf Dietsche <ol...@olafdietsche.de>.
"Jostein Chr. Andersen" <jo...@josander.net> writes:
> I don't know how to turn svnserve into a real service under Windows and I
> don't think that I have time to learn how to do it within a very near
> future (well I might try in the beginning of the next week).
>
> How does Apache do it? Is this an Apache or APR issue? I can't imagine
> that's black belt programming when making svnserve to run as a real
> service under Windows.
>
> It would be nice if someone can code it or give me a starting point of
> turning svnserve for Windows into a real service.
cygwin has a utility named cygrunsrv, which allows to start programs
as a service. Source is available, of course:
<http://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/windows/cygwin/release/cygrunsrv/>
Regards, Olaf.
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by Toby Johnson <to...@etjohnson.us>.
Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote:
>How does Apache do it? Is this an Apache or APR issue?
>
No, using svnserve has nothing to do with Apache.
>I can't imagine
>that's black belt programming when making svnserve to run as a real
>service under Windows.
>
>
You wouldn't think so, but it's no small task either. It's not a simple
task of "daemonizing" (i.e. disconnecting from STDIN and STDOUT while
continuing to run) as it is on *nix, because you also want it to run
when no one is logged in to the machine. You have to create a Windows
service to do that.
However, have you looked at firedaemon.com yet? Their tool is *very*
stable and works extremely well, and the Lite version (which is all you
need if you only have one service to install) is free.
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Re: SVN as windows service?
Posted by Olaf Dietsche <ol...@olafdietsche.de>.
"Jostein Chr. Andersen" <jo...@josander.net> writes:
> I don't know how to turn svnserve into a real service under Windows and I
> don't think that I have time to learn how to do it within a very near
> future (well I might try in the beginning of the next week).
>
> How does Apache do it? Is this an Apache or APR issue? I can't imagine
> that's black belt programming when making svnserve to run as a real
> service under Windows.
>
> It would be nice if someone can code it or give me a starting point of
> turning svnserve for Windows into a real service.
cygwin has a utility named cygrunsrv, which allows to start programs
as a service. Source is available, of course:
<http://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/windows/cygwin/release/cygrunsrv/>
Regards, Olaf.
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