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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Andre Fischer <aw...@gmail.com> on 2013/04/15 16:00:34 UTC
Clean build proposal
Hi,
I would like to change the build type of the Windows7 nightly build from
incremental to clean.
Reasons in favor of a clean build are:
- Developers don't have to know if a change is incompatible and thus
have to (somehow) trigger a clean build.
- Developers don't have to learn how to trigger a clean build.
- We avoid very subtle bugs that are introduced when an incremental
build is made on incompatible changes.
Issues 122047 and 122048 may be caused by such a broken build: the
office works in general, only commands are mapped to the wrong ids.
It is not acceptable to have builds that we can not rely on.
If no one objects in the coming 72 hours then I will change the buildbot
configuration file to make clean Windows7 nightly builds. I will then
try to pinpoint and fix any build errors. Any help is appreciated.
I have started to collect the available documentation on the buildbots
[1] but many parts are missing. For example I have not yet found much
on the buildbot configuration file. Anyone who knows more, please
update the wiki page.
Regards,
Andre
[1] http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Buildbot
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Re: Clean build proposal
Posted by Andre Fischer <aw...@gmail.com>.
On 15.04.2013 16:00, Andre Fischer wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would like to change the build type of the Windows7 nightly build
> from incremental to clean.
>
> Reasons in favor of a clean build are:
>
> - Developers don't have to know if a change is incompatible and thus
> have to (somehow) trigger a clean build.
>
> - Developers don't have to learn how to trigger a clean build.
>
> - We avoid very subtle bugs that are introduced when an incremental
> build is made on incompatible changes.
> Issues 122047 and 122048 may be caused by such a broken build: the
> office works in general, only commands are mapped to the wrong ids.
> It is not acceptable to have builds that we can not rely on.
>
> If no one objects in the coming 72 hours then I will change the
> buildbot configuration file to make clean Windows7 nightly builds. I
> will then try to pinpoint and fix any build errors. Any help is
> appreciated.
Time is up and I did not see a real opposition.
But a Friday is not a good time to make this change. I will do it on
Monday.
-Andre
>
> I have started to collect the available documentation on the buildbots
> [1] but many parts are missing. For example I have not yet found much
> on the buildbot configuration file. Anyone who knows more, please
> update the wiki page.
>
> Regards,
> Andre
>
> [1] http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Buildbot
>
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Re: Clean build proposal
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 4/16/13 9:42 AM, Herbert Dürr wrote:
> On 2013/04/16 9:12 AM, Andre Fischer wrote:
>> On 15.04.2013 18:12, Herbert Dürr wrote:
>>> On 2013/04/15 4:00 PM, Andre Fischer wrote:
>>>> I would like to change the build type of the Windows7 nightly build
>>>> from
>>>> incremental to clean.
>>>>
>>>> Reasons in favor of a clean build are:
>>>>
>>>> - Developers don't have to know if a change is incompatible and thus
>>>> have to (somehow) trigger a clean build.
>>>>
>>>> - Developers don't have to learn how to trigger a clean build.
>>>>
>>>> - We avoid very subtle bugs that are introduced when an incremental
>>>> build is made on incompatible changes.
>>>> Issues 122047 and 122048 may be caused by such a broken build: the
>>>> office works in general, only commands are mapped to the wrong ids.
>>>> It is not acceptable to have builds that we can not rely on.
>>>
>>> I'm having a deja vue moment ;-)
>>> [1] http://markmail.org/message/lpprmeahwurvepx5
>>
>> No, this thread does not apply. It was centered on the idea to change
>> the bootstrap file and thus to affect every build, not just the ones on
>> the buildbot. I don't want to change any files in SVN, only the
>> buildbot setup.
>
> The central suggestion was to default to a clean build because of the
> observation that dependencies currently don't work reliably which
> results in artifacts that are not reproducible and waste a lot of time
> was a direct hit.
>
> It is clear that the cleaning has to be somewhere between configure and
> the build steps. Where exactly was almost irrelevant. Bootstrap was only
> suggested because it is the only step between configure and the actual
> build. The "build --clean" suggested by Oliver had the problem that a
> simple build restart, e.g. after one of the infamous dmake failures,
> should not accidentally delete all the work already done.
>
>> I am thankful for your and Andrew's work but you describe a problem with
>> the current process, not with clean builds.
>
> I prefer clean builds too and now that I'm hearing Andrew that is happy
> with the change I'm all the happier with that. I already did it weeks
> ago for the snapshot builds a couple of weeks ago which resulted in some
> (minor) opposition then ;-)
>
>> BTW, was that a -1 or a 0 to my proposal?
>
> It was a support vote for Andrew's evaluation of the situation who quite
> clearly described why he liked the incremental build.
I am in favor of a clean build to ensure a reliable result. If we have
problems we have to solve the problems.
I built the Windows snapshot yesterday in 2h12min and it was a clean
fresh checkout built with "built --all -P2 -- -P2". No single build breaker.
Juergen
>
> Herbert
>
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Re: Clean build proposal
Posted by Herbert Dürr <hd...@apache.org>.
On 2013/04/16 9:12 AM, Andre Fischer wrote:
> On 15.04.2013 18:12, Herbert Dürr wrote:
>> On 2013/04/15 4:00 PM, Andre Fischer wrote:
>>> I would like to change the build type of the Windows7 nightly build from
>>> incremental to clean.
>>>
>>> Reasons in favor of a clean build are:
>>>
>>> - Developers don't have to know if a change is incompatible and thus
>>> have to (somehow) trigger a clean build.
>>>
>>> - Developers don't have to learn how to trigger a clean build.
>>>
>>> - We avoid very subtle bugs that are introduced when an incremental
>>> build is made on incompatible changes.
>>> Issues 122047 and 122048 may be caused by such a broken build: the
>>> office works in general, only commands are mapped to the wrong ids.
>>> It is not acceptable to have builds that we can not rely on.
>>
>> I'm having a deja vue moment ;-)
>> [1] http://markmail.org/message/lpprmeahwurvepx5
>
> No, this thread does not apply. It was centered on the idea to change
> the bootstrap file and thus to affect every build, not just the ones on
> the buildbot. I don't want to change any files in SVN, only the
> buildbot setup.
The central suggestion was to default to a clean build because of the
observation that dependencies currently don't work reliably which
results in artifacts that are not reproducible and waste a lot of time
was a direct hit.
It is clear that the cleaning has to be somewhere between configure and
the build steps. Where exactly was almost irrelevant. Bootstrap was only
suggested because it is the only step between configure and the actual
build. The "build --clean" suggested by Oliver had the problem that a
simple build restart, e.g. after one of the infamous dmake failures,
should not accidentally delete all the work already done.
> I am thankful for your and Andrew's work but you describe a problem with
> the current process, not with clean builds.
I prefer clean builds too and now that I'm hearing Andrew that is happy
with the change I'm all the happier with that. I already did it weeks
ago for the snapshot builds a couple of weeks ago which resulted in some
(minor) opposition then ;-)
> BTW, was that a -1 or a 0 to my proposal?
It was a support vote for Andrew's evaluation of the situation who quite
clearly described why he liked the incremental build.
Herbert
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Re: Clean build proposal
Posted by Andre Fischer <aw...@gmail.com>.
On 15.04.2013 18:12, Herbert Dürr wrote:
> On 2013/04/15 4:00 PM, Andre Fischer wrote:
>> I would like to change the build type of the Windows7 nightly build from
>> incremental to clean.
>>
>> Reasons in favor of a clean build are:
>>
>> - Developers don't have to know if a change is incompatible and thus
>> have to (somehow) trigger a clean build.
>>
>> - Developers don't have to learn how to trigger a clean build.
>>
>> - We avoid very subtle bugs that are introduced when an incremental
>> build is made on incompatible changes.
>> Issues 122047 and 122048 may be caused by such a broken build: the
>> office works in general, only commands are mapped to the wrong ids.
>> It is not acceptable to have builds that we can not rely on.
>
> I'm having a deja vue moment ;-)
> [1] http://markmail.org/message/lpprmeahwurvepx5
No, this thread does not apply. It was centered on the idea to change
the bootstrap file and thus to affect every build, not just the ones on
the buildbot. I don't want to change any files in SVN, only the
buildbot setup.
>
>> If no one objects in the coming 72 hours then I will change the buildbot
>> configuration file to make clean Windows7 nightly builds. I will then
>> try to pinpoint and fix any build errors. Any help is appreciated.
>
> As Andrew pointed out in his mail he prefers an incremental build on
> the w7bot for several reasons such as problems with hung processes and
> wrong dependencies that currently have to be cleaned out manually by
> him, as he is the only one with machine level access. So forcing a
> clean build would add additional work on him as volunteer. I trust
> Andrew's assessment.
I am thankful for your and Andrew's work but you describe a problem with
the current process, not with clean builds. We have to make this
process more transparent. It has to be documented and understood by
more than one or two people. If there are known problems with our build
then we have to fix them. And if these are buildbot-only problems that
nobody else can reproduce on other machines then we have to think about
setting them up new or differently.
>
> Server load was a another serious concern.
>
> Regarding the argument that a buildbot should always do a clean build
> whereas builds outside of that system should default to be
> incremental: There is some merit to the concept that the buildbot
> shouldn't always have to use some extra steps that the default build
> does not do.
Firstly, builds do not default to incremental. Clean or incremental
depends on whether or not the user or the buildbot deletes old build
artifacts prior to building.
Secondly, we have to decide what we need the buildbots for. If it is
only to check that modified files still compile, then we can setup the
buildbot very differently to save a lot of time (no linking, no creation
of installation sets). But if we want to use the installation sets for
functional verification (does the modification not only compile but
really fix the problem) then buildbots have to produce reliable
results. It is better when the build fails (because then we know that
it failed) than to complete but contain subtle build errors (because
then we do NOT know that it failed).
I prefer the second option and it seems obvious to me that we need clean
builds for that.
>> I have started to collect the available documentation on the buildbots
>> [1] but many parts are missing. For example I have not yet found much
>> on the buildbot configuration file. Anyone who knows more, please
>> update the wiki page.
>
> Anyone considering a change to the configuration file [2] is well
> advised to get familiar with its extensive documentation [3] provided
> by the buildbot project first. Every slave-bot only has about a dozen
> steps...
Do you have anything on your mind in particular?
Maybe you can help with that?
BTW, was that a -1 or a 0 to my proposal?
-Andre
>
> [2]
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/infrastructure/buildbot/aegis/buildmaster/master1/projects/openofficeorg.conf
> [3] http://docs.buildbot.net/current/manual/configuration.html
>
> Herbert
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
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Re: Clean build proposal
Posted by Herbert Dürr <hd...@apache.org>.
On 2013/04/15 4:00 PM, Andre Fischer wrote:
> I would like to change the build type of the Windows7 nightly build from
> incremental to clean.
>
> Reasons in favor of a clean build are:
>
> - Developers don't have to know if a change is incompatible and thus
> have to (somehow) trigger a clean build.
>
> - Developers don't have to learn how to trigger a clean build.
>
> - We avoid very subtle bugs that are introduced when an incremental
> build is made on incompatible changes.
> Issues 122047 and 122048 may be caused by such a broken build: the
> office works in general, only commands are mapped to the wrong ids.
> It is not acceptable to have builds that we can not rely on.
I'm having a deja vue moment ;-)
[1] http://markmail.org/message/lpprmeahwurvepx5
> If no one objects in the coming 72 hours then I will change the buildbot
> configuration file to make clean Windows7 nightly builds. I will then
> try to pinpoint and fix any build errors. Any help is appreciated.
As Andrew pointed out in his mail he prefers an incremental build on the
w7bot for several reasons such as problems with hung processes and wrong
dependencies that currently have to be cleaned out manually by him, as
he is the only one with machine level access. So forcing a clean build
would add additional work on him as volunteer. I trust Andrew's assessment.
Server load was a another serious concern.
Regarding the argument that a buildbot should always do a clean build
whereas builds outside of that system should default to be incremental:
There is some merit to the concept that the buildbot shouldn't always
have to use some extra steps that the default build does not do.
> I have started to collect the available documentation on the buildbots
> [1] but many parts are missing. For example I have not yet found much
> on the buildbot configuration file. Anyone who knows more, please
> update the wiki page.
Anyone considering a change to the configuration file [2] is well
advised to get familiar with its extensive documentation [3] provided by
the buildbot project first. Every slave-bot only has about a dozen steps...
[2]
https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/infrastructure/buildbot/aegis/buildmaster/master1/projects/openofficeorg.conf
[3] http://docs.buildbot.net/current/manual/configuration.html
Herbert
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