You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@directory.apache.org by Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@gmail.com> on 2010/06/04 16:42:54 UTC
What should we do with apacheds-server-tools ?
Hi guys,
this module is broken since, pfeww, september 11 2008 (what a
coincidence ! Bad things always happen on 11/09...)
The question is : should we keep going and fix this module or should we
move it to the deceased projects ? A thrd option would be to make this
module a separate project we can release separately from ADS 2.0.
Wdyt is the best ?
--
Regards,
Cordialement,
Emmanuel Lécharny
www.nextury.com
Re: What should we do with apacheds-server-tools ?
Posted by Felix Knecht <fe...@apache.org>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On 06/04/10 17:25, Emmanuel Lecharny wrote:
> On 6/4/10 5:17 PM, Felix Knecht wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>>
>>> It all depends on which command we are talking about here. On any linux
>>> box, you have many tools like ldapadd or ldapsearch existing. No need to
>>> rewite those guys (just because starting a command which spawns a JVM is
>>> too freaking slow).
>>>
>> Aren't those tools mainly part of an OpenLDAP installation? Why should I
>> use ApacheDS if I need to install OpenLDAP anyway?
>>
>
> The Ldap-utils package is not installing OpenLDAP. Just the CL tools.
God save the queen!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
iEYEARECAAYFAkwJG+YACgkQ2lZVCB08qHH15wCgkFgMPYd2PqSQ9t/78wuKmGHN
OVcAoI4wJK7iYdgKMyqn8afl1JwUGhqV
=mcWG
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Re: What should we do with apacheds-server-tools ?
Posted by Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@gmail.com>.
On 6/4/10 5:17 PM, Felix Knecht wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
>> It all depends on which command we are talking about here. On any linux
>> box, you have many tools like ldapadd or ldapsearch existing. No need to
>> rewite those guys (just because starting a command which spawns a JVM is
>> too freaking slow).
>>
> Aren't those tools mainly part of an OpenLDAP installation? Why should I
> use ApacheDS if I need to install OpenLDAP anyway?
>
The Ldap-utils package is not installing OpenLDAP. Just the CL tools.
--
Regards,
Cordialement,
Emmanuel Lécharny
www.nextury.com
Re: What should we do with apacheds-server-tools ?
Posted by Felix Knecht <fe...@apache.org>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
> It all depends on which command we are talking about here. On any linux
> box, you have many tools like ldapadd or ldapsearch existing. No need to
> rewite those guys (just because starting a command which spawns a JVM is
> too freaking slow).
Aren't those tools mainly part of an OpenLDAP installation? Why should I
use ApacheDS if I need to install OpenLDAP anyway?
> But when it comes to those admin commands, then yes, we should offer a
> non GUI tool for the admin.
Yep.
> One good thing about having this as a side project : it's less
> intimidating for someone who want to become a committer to start by
> playing around such a piece of code, as it won't break the main server.
+1
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
iEYEARECAAYFAkwJGPMACgkQ2lZVCB08qHGTtgCgpdYX1zNUpIuIU7RQDBnB4BHH
xgYAoLZnwEZsNylUTXt1XGrhr9o3zHX6
=2PuG
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Re: What should we do with apacheds-server-tools ?
Posted by Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@gmail.com>.
On 6/4/10 4:56 PM, Felix Knecht wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
>> The question is : should we keep going and fix this module or should we
>> move it to the deceased projects ? A thrd option would be to make this
>> module a separate project we can release separately from ADS 2.0.
>>
> - From an administrators POV (who doesn't like GUIs anyway) I'd say we
> still need them. How to make a e.g. a dump on a server machine? Using
> studio (hopefully the requested admin function exists in studio) and
> then doing an ssh X-Forward tunnel and get the dump on the local machine
> instead on the server?
>
It all depends on which command we are talking about here. On any linux
box, you have many tools like ldapadd or ldapsearch existing. No need to
rewite those guys (just because starting a command which spawns a JVM is
too freaking slow).
But when it comes to those admin commands, then yes, we should offer a
non GUI tool for the admin.
One interesting idea would have been to use a tool like ldapvi, or even
better, writing our own GUI.
The only problm I have right now with the current approach, is that we
don't fix the existing issues, we just postpone them over and over. At
this point, if we don't move the project to the attic, then I really
think it should be a side project, like the Ldap API.
One good thing about having this as a side project : it's less
intimidating for someone who want to become a committer to start by
playing around such a piece of code, as it won't break the main server.
--
Regards,
Cordialement,
Emmanuel Lécharny
www.nextury.com
Re: What should we do with apacheds-server-tools ?
Posted by Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Felix Knecht <fe...@apache.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> > The question is : should we keep going and fix this module or should we
> > move it to the deceased projects ? A thrd option would be to make this
> > module a separate project we can release separately from ADS 2.0.
>
> - From an administrators POV (who doesn't like GUIs anyway) I'd say we
> still need them.
>
+1 - I agree that we need them 100% for command line administrator
operations.
--
Alex Karasulu
My Blog :: http://www.jroller.com/akarasulu/
Apache Directory Server :: http://directory.apache.org
Apache MINA :: http://mina.apache.org
To set up a meeting with me: http://tungle.me/AlexKarasulu
Re: What should we do with apacheds-server-tools ?
Posted by Felix Knecht <fe...@apache.org>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
> The question is : should we keep going and fix this module or should we
> move it to the deceased projects ? A thrd option would be to make this
> module a separate project we can release separately from ADS 2.0.
- From an administrators POV (who doesn't like GUIs anyway) I'd say we
still need them. How to make a e.g. a dump on a server machine? Using
studio (hopefully the requested admin function exists in studio) and
then doing an ssh X-Forward tunnel and get the dump on the local machine
instead on the server?
I'd prefer the third option.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
iEYEARECAAYFAkwJFBYACgkQ2lZVCB08qHHDigCgx4UATiEwRKP2g6JH90EOFahy
E0kAoOYXgSgFuXgYY8nY6ZJ8Hbh255k8
=U8DX
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Re: What should we do with apacheds-server-tools ?
Posted by Kiran Ayyagari <ka...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Stefan Seelmann <se...@apache.org> wrote:
> Emmanuel Lecharny wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> this module is broken since, pfeww, september 11 2008 (what a
>> coincidence ! Bad things always happen on 11/09...)
>>
>> The question is : should we keep going and fix this module or should we
>> move it to the deceased projects ? A thrd option would be to make this
>> module a separate project we can release separately from ADS 2.0.
>>
>> Wdyt is the best ?
>
> I think we need to provide some CLI tools for administrating the server.
> At least we need a tool to re-build the index and to backup and restore
> the data in LDIF format including all operational attributes. Similar to
> OpenLDAP's slapindex, slapcat, and slapadd.
>
> IMO the problem with the current tools is that they are dedicated to
> JDBM partitions and directly works on the *.db files.
>
> Instead I think we should build those tools into the partition
> implementation.
the main problem with such a implementation in partition is that
we *use* the indices while fetching the data leading to a concurrent
modification issue
One way to avoid this is to write the data into the index after
keeping it at a different
location and later overwriting the original index file, but sadly this
is again partition specific
cause not all partitions store the data in same way.
Kiran Ayyagari
Re: What should we do with apacheds-server-tools ?
Posted by Pierre-Arnaud Marcelot <pa...@marcelot.net>.
Indeed, I saw that too.
These are interesting tools to have but they're not very related to ApacheDS.
It could be interesting to have the dump/load commands working again, as well as a tool to rebuild indices and recover a "broken" partition.
Regards,
Pierre-Arnaud
On 7 juin 2010, at 11:57, Emmanuel Lecharny wrote:
> On 6/7/10 10:30 AM, Pierre-Arnaud Marcelot wrote:
>> +1.
>>
>> I would add that with the removal of the server.xml file and the future changes in the InstallationLayout of ApacheDS, the current implementation of the Server Tools will be completely irrelevant and outdated.
>>
>> What about starting a complete re-vamp of these tools for the 2.0 release (2.0.0 RC1 may been ship without them but 2.0 final should be shipped with them) ?
>>
> I see that Sumit Goyal has started to work on some replacement for the old LDAP tools we had once upon a time (
>
> (https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DIRAPI-9)
>
> Let's see what it brings, then we can probably extend those toos a bit.
>
> No urgence right now, et's first release 2.0-RC1.
>
> But the idea is there.
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Cordialement,
> Emmanuel Lécharny
> www.nextury.com
>
>
Re: What should we do with apacheds-server-tools ?
Posted by Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@gmail.com>.
On 6/7/10 10:30 AM, Pierre-Arnaud Marcelot wrote:
> +1.
>
> I would add that with the removal of the server.xml file and the future changes in the InstallationLayout of ApacheDS, the current implementation of the Server Tools will be completely irrelevant and outdated.
>
> What about starting a complete re-vamp of these tools for the 2.0 release (2.0.0 RC1 may been ship without them but 2.0 final should be shipped with them) ?
>
I see that Sumit Goyal has started to work on some replacement for the
old LDAP tools we had once upon a time (
(https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DIRAPI-9)
Let's see what it brings, then we can probably extend those toos a bit.
No urgence right now, et's first release 2.0-RC1.
But the idea is there.
--
Regards,
Cordialement,
Emmanuel Lécharny
www.nextury.com
Re: What should we do with apacheds-server-tools ?
Posted by Pierre-Arnaud Marcelot <pa...@marcelot.net>.
+1.
I would add that with the removal of the server.xml file and the future changes in the InstallationLayout of ApacheDS, the current implementation of the Server Tools will be completely irrelevant and outdated.
What about starting a complete re-vamp of these tools for the 2.0 release (2.0.0 RC1 may been ship without them but 2.0 final should be shipped with them) ?
I could work on that if you like as well as working on a newly installation layout since the old one does not really makes sense now.
Regards,
Pierre-Arnaud
On 5 juin 2010, at 10:38, Stefan Seelmann wrote:
> Emmanuel Lecharny wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> this module is broken since, pfeww, september 11 2008 (what a
>> coincidence ! Bad things always happen on 11/09...)
>>
>> The question is : should we keep going and fix this module or should we
>> move it to the deceased projects ? A thrd option would be to make this
>> module a separate project we can release separately from ADS 2.0.
>>
>> Wdyt is the best ?
>
> I think we need to provide some CLI tools for administrating the server.
> At least we need a tool to re-build the index and to backup and restore
> the data in LDIF format including all operational attributes. Similar to
> OpenLDAP's slapindex, slapcat, and slapadd.
>
> IMO the problem with the current tools is that they are dedicated to
> JDBM partitions and directly works on the *.db files.
>
> Instead I think we should build those tools into the partition
> implementation. We could extend the Partition interface with some new
> methods:
> void buildIndex();
> void backup( File/URL toFile );
> void restore( File/URL fromFile );
> and define extended operations to trigger those methods. The extended
> operations could be invoked from within Studio or from a new CLI tool.
>
> Of course, the problem is (as always) time.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Stefan
>
Re: What should we do with apacheds-server-tools ?
Posted by Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@gmail.com>.
On 6/5/10 10:38 AM, Stefan Seelmann wrote:
> Emmanuel Lecharny wrote:
>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> this module is broken since, pfeww, september 11 2008 (what a
>> coincidence ! Bad things always happen on 11/09...)
>>
>> The question is : should we keep going and fix this module or should we
>> move it to the deceased projects ? A thrd option would be to make this
>> module a separate project we can release separately from ADS 2.0.
>>
>> Wdyt is the best ?
>>
> I think we need to provide some CLI tools for administrating the server.
> At least we need a tool to re-build the index and to backup and restore
> the data in LDIF format including all operational attributes. Similar to
> OpenLDAP's slapindex, slapcat, and slapadd.
>
> IMO the problem with the current tools is that they are dedicated to
> JDBM partitions and directly works on the *.db files.
>
> Instead I think we should build those tools into the partition
> implementation. We could extend the Partition interface with some new
> methods:
> void buildIndex();
> void backup( File/URL toFile );
> void restore( File/URL fromFile );
> and define extended operations to trigger those methods. The extended
> operations could be invoked from within Studio or from a new CLI tool.
>
+1. This is most certainly what we need.
> Of course, the problem is (as always) time.
>
Ahhh... You can't buy time. You can't sell it either ;)
--
Regards,
Cordialement,
Emmanuel Lécharny
www.nextury.com
Re: What should we do with apacheds-server-tools ?
Posted by Stefan Seelmann <se...@apache.org>.
Emmanuel Lecharny wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> this module is broken since, pfeww, september 11 2008 (what a
> coincidence ! Bad things always happen on 11/09...)
>
> The question is : should we keep going and fix this module or should we
> move it to the deceased projects ? A thrd option would be to make this
> module a separate project we can release separately from ADS 2.0.
>
> Wdyt is the best ?
I think we need to provide some CLI tools for administrating the server.
At least we need a tool to re-build the index and to backup and restore
the data in LDIF format including all operational attributes. Similar to
OpenLDAP's slapindex, slapcat, and slapadd.
IMO the problem with the current tools is that they are dedicated to
JDBM partitions and directly works on the *.db files.
Instead I think we should build those tools into the partition
implementation. We could extend the Partition interface with some new
methods:
void buildIndex();
void backup( File/URL toFile );
void restore( File/URL fromFile );
and define extended operations to trigger those methods. The extended
operations could be invoked from within Studio or from a new CLI tool.
Of course, the problem is (as always) time.
Kind Regards,
Stefan