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Posted to users@cocoon.apache.org by Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net> on 2013/02/15 22:11:39 UTC
from Cforms to Wicket
Hi,
I have an application using dynamic Cforms (C2.11), that is, the Cforms
definition and templates are created from dynamic XML through XSL.
Can this be done with C3 and wickets?
From somewhere I read about the fact that with Apache Wickets you don't
need any XML..
- mika -
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Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by gelo1234 <ge...@gmail.com>.
IMHO, any kind of *Forms* technology is not a viable solution today in the
long term. I wouldn't bet on XForms or any other non-standard/standard
framework/technology as long as you just don't want to play around with it.
The only valid standard today for View part of MVC/MVVP is ... HTML5.
Even Oracle found it right, by introducing HTML5 native tags that are
JSF-compatible (in JSF 2.2), not the JSF-only tags (as in JSF 2.1).
All big players: Oracle, IBM, Microsoft, Adobe have switched their
development
efforts to HTML5.
Greetings,
Greg
2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>
> Yeah,
> I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002 or
> 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..
>
> This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it actually
> implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use Xforms
> definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It actually
> resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to be under
> development taking contemporary challenges into account.
>
> But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?
>
> I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how to
> start.
>
> The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper development
> tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++. And I never realized
> how to do debugging..
>
>
> - mika -
>
>
> 18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>
> On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>
>>> How about some XForms implementation like this http://www.betterform.de?
>>> Sounds promising..
>>>
>>
>> I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.**apache.org<us...@cocoon.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>
>
Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Francesco Chicchiriccò <il...@apache.org>.
On 18/02/2013 13:45, Robby Pelssers wrote:
> The only thing I wonder about is...
>
> Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5 serialization for all I know. So does someone using Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon and how did you accomplish this.
Cocoon 2.1 is going to support HTML 5 serialization in 2.1.12 [1] -
already available in 2.1.12-dev.
Cocoon 3's XMLSerializer [2] can be easily extended to support HTML 5:
just need to add
public static XMLSerializer createHTML5Serializer();
similar to existing createXHTMLSerializer.
Regards.
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON-2310
[2]
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/cocoon/cocoon3/trunk/cocoon-sax/src/main/java/org/apache/cocoon/sax/component/XMLSerializer.java
--
Francesco Chicchiriccò
ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/
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Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Gabriel Gruber <Ga...@workflow.at>.
Hey Mika,
I would suggest to use Vaadin (www.vaadin.org) for your dynamic form
generation.
It is pure java and css and all the client stuff is done via a small GWT
layer.
integration into cocoon is easy... we have done it to build a new app on
top of our existing hibernate+spring+cocoon webapp.
cheers,
gabriel
From: Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>
To: users@cocoon.apache.org,
Date: 18.02.2013 15:10
Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Yep,
but as I started this chain, I stated that my problem is to "convert" my
own defined dynamic XML into HTML4 (or HTML5) forms. I was looking
something to replace Cforms (not just plain XSLT). I am also considering
to move to C3 because as I stated earlier, developing without tools is
hard. If I could take e.g. NetBeans and continue with that, I would be
better off in the long run.
I was considering Apache Wickets because some integration has been done
with C3, but right now it doesn't seem to be a real option.
HTML5 is still hype from my point of view.
- mika -
18.2.2013 15:50, gelo1234 kirjoitti:
HTML5 in its basics is a superset of HTML4. If you don't use
HTML5-specific tags/spec you go well with old good HTML4.
The original issue was NOT whether to use HTML5 or old HTML, but whether
to use CForms or just raw XHTML/HTML (4 or 5) forms.
If you like to have HTML5 goodies in browsers that support it, just use
e.g. Cocoon Actions in Sitemap OR Advanced Sitemap Matchers OR in
REST-Controller by inspecting HTTP Headers return different Page that
generate a different Content (with XSLT) for IE8.
Greetings,
-Greg
2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>
Also HTML5 support for IE seems to be weak, even for IE9. There are still
lot of people using IE8 or even older browser + lot of people in some sort
of governmental offices using their own versions..
We can't sell apps without IE-support, absolutely no way.
http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/
- mika -
18.2.2013 14:45, Robby Pelssers kirjoitti:
The only thing I wonder about is...
Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5 serialization for all I know. So
does someone using Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon and
how did you accomplish this.
Cheers,
Robby
-----Original Message-----
From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:mika@digikartta.net]
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
To: users@cocoon.apache.org
Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Ok,
thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.
- mika -
18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
Yeah,
I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002
or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..
This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it
actually implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use
Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It
actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to
be under development taking contemporary challenges into account.
"under development" with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year back [1]
But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?
It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to put on this
task.
Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in you in the
XML side if the job.
I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how
to start.
The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper
development tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++.
And I never realized how to do debugging..
[1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/
18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
How about some XForms implementation like this
http://www.betterform.de?
Sounds promising..
I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...
Regards.
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Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>.
Yeah,
I think so too. Thanks.
- mika -
18.2.2013 18:44, Jos Snellings kirjoitti:
> Nice overview!
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:23 PM, gelo1234 <gelo1234@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> IMHO if you are dealing with XML data, there are only two valid
> choices: XSLT or XQuery.
>
> Both can be used with Cocoon. XSLT is standard Cocoon supported
> (by XSLTTransformer),
> XQuery support for Cocoon exists in XQueryGenerator from eXistDB
> (http://www.exist-db.org)
>
> Whin one to use ? :) I prefer XSLT, but you can choose the other
> [1]. XSLT has the best support in Cocoon.
> XSLT is much simpler in my opinion and it enables us to generate
> ANY Content/Transformation with XML data.
> XSLT is pretty well supported in most IDEs, be it Eclipse or NetBeans.
>
> Im not aware of any stack/framework that could be built on top of
> XSLT (as a superset?). Actually XSLT is pretty much 4GL [2]. It is
> declarative in its form so simple and yet with LEGO-like Cocoon
> sitemaps approach best suited for very clean/RAD apps.
>
> I also suggest taking a diversed approach to development with
> Cocoon. What I mean by diversed is that you don't necessarily have
> to stick
> to Cocoon tools only. In its 3.0 release Cocoon is considered to
> be used across different development environments, even in its
> simplest form
> as a library for e.g. Java EE or Spring application.
> Personally I prefer to use it as a mediation proxy with ESB-like
> features and use the right tools/frameworks for your job.
> For me it means: Java on server, Javascript/HTML on the client.
>
> Using Java on the client side in terms of Web app (as its with
> Wicket) is IMHO very bad and ugly idea.
> Other indirect uses of Java thats compiled into Javascript (like
> GWT, Vaadin, Errai,....) is also kind of obscure and heavy-weight.
> I dare to claim they will loose its share in future HTML5 development.
>
> Just use the right (and LIGHTWEIGHT ;) tool for your job :)
>
> Greetings,
> Greg
>
> [1] www.w3.org/2006/Talks/0525-www2006-Kay.pdf
> <http://www.w3.org/2006/Talks/0525-www2006-Kay.pdf>
> [2]
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-generation_programming_language
>
>
>
> 2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mika@digikartta.net
> <ma...@digikartta.net>>
>
> Yep,
> but as I started this chain, I stated that my problem is to
> "convert" my own defined dynamic XML into HTML4 (or HTML5)
> forms. I was looking something to replace Cforms (not just
> plain XSLT). I am also considering to move to C3 because as I
> stated earlier, developing without tools is hard. If I could
> take e.g. NetBeans and continue with that, I would be better
> off in the long run.
>
> I was considering Apache Wickets because some integration has
> been done with C3, but right now it doesn't seem to be a real
> option.
>
> HTML5 is still hype from my point of view.
>
>
> - mika -
>
>
> 18.2.2013 15:50, gelo1234 kirjoitti:
>> HTML5 in its basics is a superset of HTML4. If you don't use
>> HTML5-specific tags/spec you go well with old good HTML4.
>>
>> The original issue was NOT whether to use HTML5 or old HTML,
>> but whether to use CForms or just raw XHTML/HTML (4 or 5) forms.
>>
>> If you like to have HTML5 goodies in browsers that support
>> it, just use e.g. Cocoon Actions in Sitemap OR Advanced
>> Sitemap Matchers OR in REST-Controller by inspecting HTTP
>> Headers return different Page that generate a different
>> Content (with XSLT) for IE8.
>>
>> Greetings,
>> -Greg
>>
>>
>> 2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mika@digikartta.net
>> <ma...@digikartta.net>>
>>
>> Also HTML5 support for IE seems to be weak, even for IE9.
>> There are still lot of people using IE8 or even older
>> browser + lot of people in some sort of governmental
>> offices using their own versions..
>> We can't sell apps without IE-support, absolutely no way.
>>
>> http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/
>> <http://people.mozilla.com/%7Eprouget/ie9/>
>>
>> - mika -
>>
>>
>> 18.2.2013 14:45, Robby Pelssers kirjoitti:
>>
>> The only thing I wonder about is...
>>
>> Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5
>> serialization for all I know. So does someone using
>> Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon and
>> how did you accomplish this.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robby
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:mika@digikartta.net
>> <ma...@digikartta.net>]
>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
>> To: users@cocoon.apache.org
>> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket
>>
>> Ok,
>> thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.
>>
>> - mika -
>>
>>
>> 18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>
>> On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>
>> Yeah,
>> I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms
>> sites are dated back to 2002
>> or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having
>> glorious future behind..
>>
>> This betterForm still sounded proper for my
>> purposes because it
>> actually implements server-side approache of
>> Xforms. So I could use
>> Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms,
>> if I understood right. It
>> actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a
>> difference that it seems to
>> be under development taking contemporary
>> challenges into account.
>>
>> "under development" with latest release 4.1
>> dating 1 year back [1]
>>
>> But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?
>>
>> It depends on you, and on how much effort do you
>> want to put on this
>> task.
>> Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will
>> help in you in the
>> XML side if the job.
>>
>> I would like to get familiar with C3 if I
>> only could figure out how
>> to start.
>>
>> The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not
>> having proper
>> development tools to use. I ended up writing
>> files with Notepad++.
>> And I never realized how to do debugging..
>>
>> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/
>>
>> 18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò
>> kirjoitti:
>>
>> On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>
>> How about some XForms implementation
>> like this
>> http://www.betterform.de?
>> Sounds promising..
>>
>> I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called "Facts".
> They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain.
> -- Thomas Hobbes
Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>.
http://wshager.blogspot.nl/2013/02/abandoning-hope-and-xforms.html
18.2.2013 18:44, Jos Snellings kirjoitti:
> Nice overview!
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:23 PM, gelo1234 <gelo1234@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> IMHO if you are dealing with XML data, there are only two valid
> choices: XSLT or XQuery.
>
> Both can be used with Cocoon. XSLT is standard Cocoon supported
> (by XSLTTransformer),
> XQuery support for Cocoon exists in XQueryGenerator from eXistDB
> (http://www.exist-db.org)
>
> Whin one to use ? :) I prefer XSLT, but you can choose the other
> [1]. XSLT has the best support in Cocoon.
> XSLT is much simpler in my opinion and it enables us to generate
> ANY Content/Transformation with XML data.
> XSLT is pretty well supported in most IDEs, be it Eclipse or NetBeans.
>
> Im not aware of any stack/framework that could be built on top of
> XSLT (as a superset?). Actually XSLT is pretty much 4GL [2]. It is
> declarative in its form so simple and yet with LEGO-like Cocoon
> sitemaps approach best suited for very clean/RAD apps.
>
> I also suggest taking a diversed approach to development with
> Cocoon. What I mean by diversed is that you don't necessarily have
> to stick
> to Cocoon tools only. In its 3.0 release Cocoon is considered to
> be used across different development environments, even in its
> simplest form
> as a library for e.g. Java EE or Spring application.
> Personally I prefer to use it as a mediation proxy with ESB-like
> features and use the right tools/frameworks for your job.
> For me it means: Java on server, Javascript/HTML on the client.
>
> Using Java on the client side in terms of Web app (as its with
> Wicket) is IMHO very bad and ugly idea.
> Other indirect uses of Java thats compiled into Javascript (like
> GWT, Vaadin, Errai,....) is also kind of obscure and heavy-weight.
> I dare to claim they will loose its share in future HTML5 development.
>
> Just use the right (and LIGHTWEIGHT ;) tool for your job :)
>
> Greetings,
> Greg
>
> [1] www.w3.org/2006/Talks/0525-www2006-Kay.pdf
> <http://www.w3.org/2006/Talks/0525-www2006-Kay.pdf>
> [2]
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-generation_programming_language
>
>
>
> 2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mika@digikartta.net
> <ma...@digikartta.net>>
>
> Yep,
> but as I started this chain, I stated that my problem is to
> "convert" my own defined dynamic XML into HTML4 (or HTML5)
> forms. I was looking something to replace Cforms (not just
> plain XSLT). I am also considering to move to C3 because as I
> stated earlier, developing without tools is hard. If I could
> take e.g. NetBeans and continue with that, I would be better
> off in the long run.
>
> I was considering Apache Wickets because some integration has
> been done with C3, but right now it doesn't seem to be a real
> option.
>
> HTML5 is still hype from my point of view.
>
>
> - mika -
>
>
> 18.2.2013 15:50, gelo1234 kirjoitti:
>> HTML5 in its basics is a superset of HTML4. If you don't use
>> HTML5-specific tags/spec you go well with old good HTML4.
>>
>> The original issue was NOT whether to use HTML5 or old HTML,
>> but whether to use CForms or just raw XHTML/HTML (4 or 5) forms.
>>
>> If you like to have HTML5 goodies in browsers that support
>> it, just use e.g. Cocoon Actions in Sitemap OR Advanced
>> Sitemap Matchers OR in REST-Controller by inspecting HTTP
>> Headers return different Page that generate a different
>> Content (with XSLT) for IE8.
>>
>> Greetings,
>> -Greg
>>
>>
>> 2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mika@digikartta.net
>> <ma...@digikartta.net>>
>>
>> Also HTML5 support for IE seems to be weak, even for IE9.
>> There are still lot of people using IE8 or even older
>> browser + lot of people in some sort of governmental
>> offices using their own versions..
>> We can't sell apps without IE-support, absolutely no way.
>>
>> http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/
>> <http://people.mozilla.com/%7Eprouget/ie9/>
>>
>> - mika -
>>
>>
>> 18.2.2013 14:45, Robby Pelssers kirjoitti:
>>
>> The only thing I wonder about is...
>>
>> Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5
>> serialization for all I know. So does someone using
>> Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon and
>> how did you accomplish this.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robby
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:mika@digikartta.net
>> <ma...@digikartta.net>]
>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
>> To: users@cocoon.apache.org
>> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket
>>
>> Ok,
>> thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.
>>
>> - mika -
>>
>>
>> 18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>
>> On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>
>> Yeah,
>> I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms
>> sites are dated back to 2002
>> or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having
>> glorious future behind..
>>
>> This betterForm still sounded proper for my
>> purposes because it
>> actually implements server-side approache of
>> Xforms. So I could use
>> Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms,
>> if I understood right. It
>> actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a
>> difference that it seems to
>> be under development taking contemporary
>> challenges into account.
>>
>> "under development" with latest release 4.1
>> dating 1 year back [1]
>>
>> But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?
>>
>> It depends on you, and on how much effort do you
>> want to put on this
>> task.
>> Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will
>> help in you in the
>> XML side if the job.
>>
>> I would like to get familiar with C3 if I
>> only could figure out how
>> to start.
>>
>> The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not
>> having proper
>> development tools to use. I ended up writing
>> files with Notepad++.
>> And I never realized how to do debugging..
>>
>> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/
>>
>> 18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò
>> kirjoitti:
>>
>> On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>
>> How about some XForms implementation
>> like this
>> http://www.betterform.de?
>> Sounds promising..
>>
>> I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called "Facts".
> They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain.
> -- Thomas Hobbes
Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Jos Snellings <jo...@upperware.biz>.
Nice overview!
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:23 PM, gelo1234 <ge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> IMHO if you are dealing with XML data, there are only two valid choices:
> XSLT or XQuery.
>
> Both can be used with Cocoon. XSLT is standard Cocoon supported (by
> XSLTTransformer),
> XQuery support for Cocoon exists in XQueryGenerator from eXistDB (
> http://www.exist-db.org)
>
> Whin one to use ? :) I prefer XSLT, but you can choose the other [1]. XSLT
> has the best support in Cocoon.
> XSLT is much simpler in my opinion and it enables us to generate ANY
> Content/Transformation with XML data.
> XSLT is pretty well supported in most IDEs, be it Eclipse or NetBeans.
>
> Im not aware of any stack/framework that could be built on top of XSLT (as
> a superset?). Actually XSLT is pretty much 4GL [2]. It is declarative in
> its form so simple and yet with LEGO-like Cocoon sitemaps approach best
> suited for very clean/RAD apps.
>
> I also suggest taking a diversed approach to development with Cocoon. What
> I mean by diversed is that you don't necessarily have to stick
> to Cocoon tools only. In its 3.0 release Cocoon is considered to be used
> across different development environments, even in its simplest form
> as a library for e.g. Java EE or Spring application.
> Personally I prefer to use it as a mediation proxy with ESB-like features
> and use the right tools/frameworks for your job.
> For me it means: Java on server, Javascript/HTML on the client.
>
> Using Java on the client side in terms of Web app (as its with Wicket) is
> IMHO very bad and ugly idea.
> Other indirect uses of Java thats compiled into Javascript (like GWT,
> Vaadin, Errai,....) is also kind of obscure and heavy-weight.
> I dare to claim they will loose its share in future HTML5 development.
>
> Just use the right (and LIGHTWEIGHT ;) tool for your job :)
>
> Greetings,
> Greg
>
> [1] www.w3.org/2006/Talks/0525-www2006-Kay.pdf
> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-generation_programming_language
>
>
>
> 2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>
>
>> Yep,
>> but as I started this chain, I stated that my problem is to "convert" my
>> own defined dynamic XML into HTML4 (or HTML5) forms. I was looking
>> something to replace Cforms (not just plain XSLT). I am also considering to
>> move to C3 because as I stated earlier, developing without tools is hard.
>> If I could take e.g. NetBeans and continue with that, I would be better off
>> in the long run.
>>
>> I was considering Apache Wickets because some integration has been done
>> with C3, but right now it doesn't seem to be a real option.
>>
>> HTML5 is still hype from my point of view.
>>
>>
>> - mika -
>>
>>
>> 18.2.2013 15:50, gelo1234 kirjoitti:
>>
>> HTML5 in its basics is a superset of HTML4. If you don't use
>> HTML5-specific tags/spec you go well with old good HTML4.
>>
>> The original issue was NOT whether to use HTML5 or old HTML, but
>> whether to use CForms or just raw XHTML/HTML (4 or 5) forms.
>>
>> If you like to have HTML5 goodies in browsers that support it, just use
>> e.g. Cocoon Actions in Sitemap OR Advanced Sitemap Matchers OR in
>> REST-Controller by inspecting HTTP Headers return different Page that
>> generate a different Content (with XSLT) for IE8.
>>
>> Greetings,
>> -Greg
>>
>>
>> 2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>
>>
>>> Also HTML5 support for IE seems to be weak, even for IE9. There are
>>> still lot of people using IE8 or even older browser + lot of people in some
>>> sort of governmental offices using their own versions..
>>> We can't sell apps without IE-support, absolutely no way.
>>>
>>> http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/
>>>
>>> - mika -
>>>
>>>
>>> 18.2.2013 14:45, Robby Pelssers kirjoitti:
>>>
>>> The only thing I wonder about is...
>>>>
>>>> Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5 serialization for all I know.
>>>> So does someone using Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon
>>>> and how did you accomplish this.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Robby
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:mika@digikartta.net]
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
>>>> To: users@cocoon.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket
>>>>
>>>> Ok,
>>>> thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.
>>>>
>>>> - mika -
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>>>
>>>>> On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah,
>>>>>> I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002
>>>>>> or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it
>>>>>> actually implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use
>>>>>> Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It
>>>>>> actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to
>>>>>> be under development taking contemporary challenges into account.
>>>>>>
>>>>> "under development" with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year back [1]
>>>>>
>>>>> But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?
>>>>>>
>>>>> It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to put on this
>>>>> task.
>>>>> Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in you in the
>>>>> XML side if the job.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how
>>>>>> to start.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper
>>>>>> development tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++.
>>>>>> And I never realized how to do debugging..
>>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/
>>>>>
>>>>> 18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How about some XForms implementation like this
>>>>>>>> http://www.betterform.de?
>>>>>>>> Sounds promising..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
--
All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called "Facts". They
are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain.
-- Thomas Hobbes
<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomashobb118630.html>
Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by gelo1234 <ge...@gmail.com>.
IMHO if you are dealing with XML data, there are only two valid choices:
XSLT or XQuery.
Both can be used with Cocoon. XSLT is standard Cocoon supported (by
XSLTTransformer),
XQuery support for Cocoon exists in XQueryGenerator from eXistDB (
http://www.exist-db.org)
Whin one to use ? :) I prefer XSLT, but you can choose the other [1]. XSLT
has the best support in Cocoon.
XSLT is much simpler in my opinion and it enables us to generate ANY
Content/Transformation with XML data.
XSLT is pretty well supported in most IDEs, be it Eclipse or NetBeans.
Im not aware of any stack/framework that could be built on top of XSLT (as
a superset?). Actually XSLT is pretty much 4GL [2]. It is declarative in
its form so simple and yet with LEGO-like Cocoon sitemaps approach best
suited for very clean/RAD apps.
I also suggest taking a diversed approach to development with Cocoon. What
I mean by diversed is that you don't necessarily have to stick
to Cocoon tools only. In its 3.0 release Cocoon is considered to be used
across different development environments, even in its simplest form
as a library for e.g. Java EE or Spring application.
Personally I prefer to use it as a mediation proxy with ESB-like features
and use the right tools/frameworks for your job.
For me it means: Java on server, Javascript/HTML on the client.
Using Java on the client side in terms of Web app (as its with Wicket) is
IMHO very bad and ugly idea.
Other indirect uses of Java thats compiled into Javascript (like GWT,
Vaadin, Errai,....) is also kind of obscure and heavy-weight.
I dare to claim they will loose its share in future HTML5 development.
Just use the right (and LIGHTWEIGHT ;) tool for your job :)
Greetings,
Greg
[1] www.w3.org/2006/Talks/0525-www2006-Kay.pdf
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-generation_programming_language
2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>
> Yep,
> but as I started this chain, I stated that my problem is to "convert" my
> own defined dynamic XML into HTML4 (or HTML5) forms. I was looking
> something to replace Cforms (not just plain XSLT). I am also considering to
> move to C3 because as I stated earlier, developing without tools is hard.
> If I could take e.g. NetBeans and continue with that, I would be better off
> in the long run.
>
> I was considering Apache Wickets because some integration has been done
> with C3, but right now it doesn't seem to be a real option.
>
> HTML5 is still hype from my point of view.
>
>
> - mika -
>
>
> 18.2.2013 15:50, gelo1234 kirjoitti:
>
> HTML5 in its basics is a superset of HTML4. If you don't use
> HTML5-specific tags/spec you go well with old good HTML4.
>
> The original issue was NOT whether to use HTML5 or old HTML, but whether
> to use CForms or just raw XHTML/HTML (4 or 5) forms.
>
> If you like to have HTML5 goodies in browsers that support it, just use
> e.g. Cocoon Actions in Sitemap OR Advanced Sitemap Matchers OR in
> REST-Controller by inspecting HTTP Headers return different Page that
> generate a different Content (with XSLT) for IE8.
>
> Greetings,
> -Greg
>
>
> 2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>
>
>> Also HTML5 support for IE seems to be weak, even for IE9. There are still
>> lot of people using IE8 or even older browser + lot of people in some sort
>> of governmental offices using their own versions..
>> We can't sell apps without IE-support, absolutely no way.
>>
>> http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/
>>
>> - mika -
>>
>>
>> 18.2.2013 14:45, Robby Pelssers kirjoitti:
>>
>> The only thing I wonder about is...
>>>
>>> Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5 serialization for all I know.
>>> So does someone using Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon
>>> and how did you accomplish this.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Robby
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:mika@digikartta.net]
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
>>> To: users@cocoon.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket
>>>
>>> Ok,
>>> thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.
>>>
>>> - mika -
>>>
>>>
>>> 18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>>
>>>> On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yeah,
>>>>> I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002
>>>>> or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..
>>>>>
>>>>> This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it
>>>>> actually implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use
>>>>> Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It
>>>>> actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to
>>>>> be under development taking contemporary challenges into account.
>>>>>
>>>> "under development" with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year back [1]
>>>>
>>>> But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?
>>>>>
>>>> It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to put on this
>>>> task.
>>>> Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in you in the
>>>> XML side if the job.
>>>>
>>>> I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how
>>>>> to start.
>>>>>
>>>>> The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper
>>>>> development tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++.
>>>>> And I never realized how to do debugging..
>>>>>
>>>> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/
>>>>
>>>> 18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How about some XForms implementation like this
>>>>>>> http://www.betterform.de?
>>>>>>> Sounds promising..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>.
Yep,
but as I started this chain, I stated that my problem is to "convert" my
own defined dynamic XML into HTML4 (or HTML5) forms. I was looking
something to replace Cforms (not just plain XSLT). I am also considering
to move to C3 because as I stated earlier, developing without tools is
hard. If I could take e.g. NetBeans and continue with that, I would be
better off in the long run.
I was considering Apache Wickets because some integration has been done
with C3, but right now it doesn't seem to be a real option.
HTML5 is still hype from my point of view.
- mika -
18.2.2013 15:50, gelo1234 kirjoitti:
> HTML5 in its basics is a superset of HTML4. If you don't use
> HTML5-specific tags/spec you go well with old good HTML4.
>
> The original issue was NOT whether to use HTML5 or old HTML, but
> whether to use CForms or just raw XHTML/HTML (4 or 5) forms.
>
> If you like to have HTML5 goodies in browsers that support it, just
> use e.g. Cocoon Actions in Sitemap OR Advanced Sitemap Matchers OR in
> REST-Controller by inspecting HTTP Headers return different Page that
> generate a different Content (with XSLT) for IE8.
>
> Greetings,
> -Greg
>
>
> 2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mika@digikartta.net
> <ma...@digikartta.net>>
>
> Also HTML5 support for IE seems to be weak, even for IE9. There
> are still lot of people using IE8 or even older browser + lot of
> people in some sort of governmental offices using their own versions..
> We can't sell apps without IE-support, absolutely no way.
>
> http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/
> <http://people.mozilla.com/%7Eprouget/ie9/>
>
> - mika -
>
>
> 18.2.2013 14:45, Robby Pelssers kirjoitti:
>
> The only thing I wonder about is...
>
> Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5 serialization for all
> I know. So does someone using Cocoon already generate HTML5
> content with Cocoon and how did you accomplish this.
>
> Cheers,
> Robby
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:mika@digikartta.net
> <ma...@digikartta.net>]
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
> To: users@cocoon.apache.org <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket
>
> Ok,
> thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.
>
> - mika -
>
>
> 18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>
> On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>
> Yeah,
> I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are
> dated back to 2002
> or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious
> future behind..
>
> This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes
> because it
> actually implements server-side approache of Xforms.
> So I could use
> Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I
> understood right. It
> actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference
> that it seems to
> be under development taking contemporary challenges
> into account.
>
> "under development" with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year
> back [1]
>
> But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?
>
> It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to
> put on this
> task.
> Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in
> you in the
> XML side if the job.
>
> I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could
> figure out how
> to start.
>
> The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having
> proper
> development tools to use. I ended up writing files
> with Notepad++.
> And I never realized how to do debugging..
>
> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/
>
> 18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>
> On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>
> How about some XForms implementation like this
> http://www.betterform.de?
> Sounds promising..
>
> I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...
>
> Regards.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
> <ma...@cocoon.apache.org>
>
>
Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by gelo1234 <ge...@gmail.com>.
HTML5 in its basics is a superset of HTML4. If you don't use HTML5-specific
tags/spec you go well with old good HTML4.
The original issue was NOT whether to use HTML5 or old HTML, but whether to
use CForms or just raw XHTML/HTML (4 or 5) forms.
If you like to have HTML5 goodies in browsers that support it, just use
e.g. Cocoon Actions in Sitemap OR Advanced Sitemap Matchers OR in
REST-Controller by inspecting HTTP Headers return different Page that
generate a different Content (with XSLT) for IE8.
Greetings,
-Greg
2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>
> Also HTML5 support for IE seems to be weak, even for IE9. There are still
> lot of people using IE8 or even older browser + lot of people in some sort
> of governmental offices using their own versions..
> We can't sell apps without IE-support, absolutely no way.
>
> http://people.mozilla.com/~**prouget/ie9/<http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/>
>
> - mika -
>
>
> 18.2.2013 14:45, Robby Pelssers kirjoitti:
>
> The only thing I wonder about is...
>>
>> Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5 serialization for all I know.
>> So does someone using Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon
>> and how did you accomplish this.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robby
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:mika@digikartta.net]
>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
>> To: users@cocoon.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket
>>
>> Ok,
>> thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.
>>
>> - mika -
>>
>>
>> 18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>
>>> On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah,
>>>> I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002
>>>> or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..
>>>>
>>>> This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it
>>>> actually implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use
>>>> Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It
>>>> actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to
>>>> be under development taking contemporary challenges into account.
>>>>
>>> "under development" with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year back [1]
>>>
>>> But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?
>>>>
>>> It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to put on this
>>> task.
>>> Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in you in the
>>> XML side if the job.
>>>
>>> I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how
>>>> to start.
>>>>
>>>> The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper
>>>> development tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++.
>>>> And I never realized how to do debugging..
>>>>
>>> [1] http://sourceforge.net/**projects/betterform/files/<http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/>
>>>
>>> 18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>>>
>>>>> On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> How about some XForms implementation like this
>>>>>> http://www.betterform.de?
>>>>>> Sounds promising..
>>>>>>
>>>>> I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>
>>>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.**apache.org<us...@cocoon.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.**apache.org<us...@cocoon.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.**apache.org<us...@cocoon.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>
>
Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>.
Also HTML5 support for IE seems to be weak, even for IE9. There are
still lot of people using IE8 or even older browser + lot of people in
some sort of governmental offices using their own versions..
We can't sell apps without IE-support, absolutely no way.
http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/
- mika -
18.2.2013 14:45, Robby Pelssers kirjoitti:
> The only thing I wonder about is...
>
> Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5 serialization for all I know. So does someone using Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon and how did you accomplish this.
>
> Cheers,
> Robby
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:mika@digikartta.net]
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
> To: users@cocoon.apache.org
> Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket
>
> Ok,
> thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.
>
> - mika -
>
>
> 18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>> On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>> Yeah,
>>> I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002
>>> or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..
>>>
>>> This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it
>>> actually implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use
>>> Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It
>>> actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to
>>> be under development taking contemporary challenges into account.
>> "under development" with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year back [1]
>>
>>> But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?
>> It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to put on this
>> task.
>> Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in you in the
>> XML side if the job.
>>
>>> I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how
>>> to start.
>>>
>>> The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper
>>> development tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++.
>>> And I never realized how to do debugging..
>> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/
>>
>>> 18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>>> On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>>>> How about some XForms implementation like this
>>>>> http://www.betterform.de?
>>>>> Sounds promising..
>>>> I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...
>>>>
>>>> Regards.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
RE: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Robby Pelssers <Ro...@nxp.com>.
The only thing I wonder about is...
Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5 serialization for all I know. So does someone using Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon and how did you accomplish this.
Cheers,
Robby
-----Original Message-----
From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:mika@digikartta.net]
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
To: users@cocoon.apache.org
Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Ok,
thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.
- mika -
18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
> On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>> Yeah,
>> I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002
>> or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..
>>
>> This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it
>> actually implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use
>> Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It
>> actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to
>> be under development taking contemporary challenges into account.
>
> "under development" with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year back [1]
>
>> But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?
>
> It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to put on this
> task.
> Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in you in the
> XML side if the job.
>
>> I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how
>> to start.
>>
>> The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper
>> development tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++.
>> And I never realized how to do debugging..
>
> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/
>
>> 18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>> On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>>> How about some XForms implementation like this
>>>> http://www.betterform.de?
>>>> Sounds promising..
>>>
>>> I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...
>>>
>>> Regards.
>
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Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>.
Ok,
thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.
- mika -
18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
> On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>> Yeah,
>> I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002
>> or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..
>>
>> This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it
>> actually implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use
>> Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It
>> actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to
>> be under development taking contemporary challenges into account.
>
> "under development" with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year back [1]
>
>> But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?
>
> It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to put on this
> task.
> Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in you in the
> XML side if the job.
>
>> I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how
>> to start.
>>
>> The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper
>> development tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++.
>> And I never realized how to do debugging..
>
> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/
>
>> 18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>> On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>>> How about some XForms implementation like this
>>>> http://www.betterform.de?
>>>> Sounds promising..
>>>
>>> I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...
>>>
>>> Regards.
>
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Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Francesco Chicchiriccò <il...@apache.org>.
On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
> Yeah,
> I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002
> or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..
>
> This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it
> actually implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use
> Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It
> actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to
> be under development taking contemporary challenges into account.
"under development" with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year back [1]
> But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?
It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to put on this task.
Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in you in the XML
side if the job.
> I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how to
> start.
>
> The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper
> development tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++. And
> I never realized how to do debugging..
[1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/
> 18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>> On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>> How about some XForms implementation like this
>>> http://www.betterform.de?
>>> Sounds promising..
>>
>> I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...
>>
>> Regards.
--
Francesco Chicchiriccò
ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/
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Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>.
Yeah,
I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002 or
2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..
This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it actually
implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use Xforms
definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It actually
resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to be under
development taking contemporary challenges into account.
But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?
I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how to
start.
The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper development
tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++. And I never
realized how to do debugging..
- mika -
18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
> On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>> How about some XForms implementation like this http://www.betterform.de?
>> Sounds promising..
>
> I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...
>
> Regards.
>
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Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Francesco Chicchiriccò <il...@apache.org>.
On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
> How about some XForms implementation like this http://www.betterform.de?
> Sounds promising..
I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...
Regards.
--
Francesco Chicchiriccò
ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/
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Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>.
How about some XForms implementation like this http://www.betterform.de?
Sounds promising..
- mika -
17.2.2013 21:08, Mika M Lehtonen kirjoitti:
> Hi Francesco,
> let me tell you what I have now.
> I implemented a feedback web application for municipial use with
> C2.11. The app is built so that the administrator can create forms
> picking fields and controls he/she needs. These setting are saved into
> db. The end-user app reads these settings from db, creates XML
> definition and through XSL transforms these settings into valid Cforms
> definition/template and finally creates forms wanted out of this all.
>
> This is highly dynamic system where we also implemented special data
> model where horizontal tables are converted into vertical direction,
> that is, there is one row per fom field, not a column.
>
> I was warned about using C2.11 for this, but I wanted to use it anyway
> because I was familiar with it already. Now I would like to get rid of
> C2.11 but I really don't know how. I would like to switch into C3 but
> that is something I am not familiar with.
>
> I could go with the stream and use AJAX and like jQuery.. still i
> would have the same problem - how to create controls out of XML
> definition. So XML driven form platform is something I would prefer,
> you see, I would only need XSLT.
>
> I hope I made my needs little clearer.
>
>
> - mika -
>
>
> 17.2.2013 20:30, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>> On 15/02/2013 22:11, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I have an application using dynamic Cforms (C2.11), that is, the
>>> Cforms definition and templates are created from dynamic XML through
>>> XSL.
>>>
>>> Can this be done with C3 and wickets?
>>> From somewhere I read about the fact that with Apache Wickets you
>>> don't need any XML..
>>
>> Hi Mika,
>> what do you want to achieve exactly?
>>
>> Apache Wicket is a component-based framework for developing web
>> applications: I know from their project site that the project claims
>> "a refreshing lack of XML", and I also know that Wicket fully
>> supports form processing.
>>
>> From the other side, Cocoon 3.0 features Wicket integration (more
>> details at [1]) that can help achieving some particular use cases.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> [1]
>> http://cocoon.apache.org/3.0/reference/html-single/index.html#wicket-integration
>>
>
>
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Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Francesco Chicchiriccò <il...@apache.org>.
On 18/02/2013 13:09, gelo1234 wrote:
> Why using CForms at all ? If you use XSLT you can transform dynamic
> XML data into HTML5 native forms templates.
HTML5 would be an option, indeed.
Regards.
> 2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mika@digikartta.net
> <ma...@digikartta.net>>
>
> Yep,
> sounds like a lot of work and like re-inventing the wheel..
>
> - mika -
>
>
> 18.2.2013 10:47, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>> On 17/02/2013 20:08, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>> Hi Francesco,
>>> let me tell you what I have now.
>>> I implemented a feedback web application for municipial use with
>>> C2.11. The app is built so that the administrator can create
>>> forms picking fields and controls he/she needs. These setting
>>> are saved into db. The end-user app reads these settings from
>>> db, creates XML definition and through XSL transforms these
>>> settings into valid Cforms definition/template and finally
>>> creates forms wanted out of this all.
>>>
>>> This is highly dynamic system where we also implemented special
>>> data model where horizontal tables are converted into vertical
>>> direction, that is, there is one row per fom field, not a column.
>>>
>>> I was warned about using C2.11 for this, but I wanted to use it
>>> anyway because I was familiar with it already. Now I would like
>>> to get rid of C2.11 but I really don't know how. I would like to
>>> switch into C3 but that is something I am not familiar with.
>>>
>>> I could go with the stream and use AJAX and like jQuery.. still
>>> i would have the same problem - how to create controls out of
>>> XML definition. So XML driven form platform is something I would
>>> prefer, you see, I would only need XSLT.
>>>
>>> I hope I made my needs little clearer.
>>
>> Yes, definitely.
>> *
>> *Basically, you need to dynamically build some web forms from an
>> XML definition you get from an external source: let me say that
>> this is a perfect suite for C2.1 (and C2.2) with CForms.
>>
>> Now, since you want to move away from C2.1 (and not for C2.2 I
>> guess), you'd like to have some tools that, parsing the XML form
>> definition generates a Wicket form, with all controls full featured.
>>
>> While this is perfectly feasible without C3 (I did something
>> similar, even though limited, in Apache Syncope), I'd think you
>> could empower the integration between C3 and Wicket for this
>> purpose. Only, consider that there is nothing implemented yet in
>> this respect, so you would be the first.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>>> 17.2.2013 20:30, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>>> On 15/02/2013 22:11, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I have an application using dynamic Cforms (C2.11), that is,
>>>>> the Cforms definition and templates are created from dynamic
>>>>> XML through XSL.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can this be done with C3 and wickets?
>>>>> From somewhere I read about the fact that with Apache Wickets
>>>>> you don't need any XML..
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mika,
>>>> what do you want to achieve exactly?
>>>>
>>>> Apache Wicket is a component-based framework for developing web
>>>> applications: I know from their project site that the project
>>>> claims "a refreshing lack of XML", and I also know that Wicket
>>>> fully supports form processing.
>>>>
>>>> From the other side, Cocoon 3.0 features Wicket integration
>>>> (more details at [1]) that can help achieving some particular
>>>> use cases.
>>>>
>>>> Regards.
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>> http://cocoon.apache.org/3.0/reference/html-single/index.html#wicket-integration
>> --
>> Francesco Chicchiriccò
>>
>> ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
>> http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/ <http://people.apache.org/%7Eilgrosso/>
>
>
--
Francesco Chicchiriccò
ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/
Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by David Legg <da...@searchevent.co.uk>.
All the cool people swear by caniuse.com [1] ;-)
Another very new resource is the WebPlatform.org site [2] which is in
alpha at the moment but is the first collaboration between all the major
browser manufacturers to document the browser standards and collate bugs.
So to answer Mika's question: HTML5 is already widely supported by
browsers. Or to put it another way the HTML5 doctype was designed to be
usable without breaking older browsers but also prevent them going into
quirks mode. Scripts like modernizr [3], also enable very old
browsers (even IE6!) to partially support some of the more desirable
CSS3 functions.
I don't know about you but 20% of my traffic is mobile based. Whatever
forms you do generate it is looking more and more like you also need to
support Responsive Web Design which adapts to the browser window size
and device input capabilities. We are living in interesting times at
the moment from a web perspective and for the past year people have been
rushing to 'do responsive' by placing most of the logic client side and
making extensive use of media queries. Some people are beginning to
wake up to the fact that it might be better to do a little device
detection server-side with a technique that Luke Wrobleski coined 'RESS'
[4]. This is something for which I think Cocoon might be a good solution.
One final thing you may find of interest is a side project of Wicket
which I tinkered with a while ago called WicketWebBeans [5]. I have no
idea if it is still being developed but essentially it dynamically
creates web forms by directly interrogating java beans. You can tailor
the behaviour according to your needs.
Regards,
David Legg
[1] http://caniuse.com/
[2] http://www.webplatform.org/
[3] http://modernizr.com/
[4] http://www.lukew.com/ff/entry.asp?1392
[5] http://wicketwebbeans.sourceforge.net/
On 18/02/13 12:24, Francesco Chicchiriccò wrote:
> On 18/02/2013 13:21, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>> Is HTML5 something you can really use already having wide range of
>> browsers supported?
>> (Or at least FF, IE and Chrome)
>
> Google says (among others)....
>
> http://www.findmebyip.com/litmus/
Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Francesco Chicchiriccò <il...@apache.org>.
On 18/02/2013 13:21, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
> Is HTML5 something you can really use already having wide range of
> browsers supported?
> (Or at least FF, IE and Chrome)
Google says (among others)....
http://www.findmebyip.com/litmus/
> 18.2.2013 14:09, gelo1234 kirjoitti:
>> Why using CForms at all ? If you use XSLT you can transform dynamic
>> XML data into HTML5 native forms templates.
>>
>> Greetings,
>> -Greg
>>
>>
>> 2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mika@digikartta.net
>> <ma...@digikartta.net>>
>>
>> Yep,
>> sounds like a lot of work and like re-inventing the wheel..
>>
>> - mika -
>>
>>
>> 18.2.2013 10:47, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>> On 17/02/2013 20:08, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>>> Hi Francesco,
>>>> let me tell you what I have now.
>>>> I implemented a feedback web application for municipial use
>>>> with C2.11. The app is built so that the administrator can
>>>> create forms picking fields and controls he/she needs. These
>>>> setting are saved into db. The end-user app reads these
>>>> settings from db, creates XML definition and through XSL
>>>> transforms these settings into valid Cforms definition/template
>>>> and finally creates forms wanted out of this all.
>>>>
>>>> This is highly dynamic system where we also implemented special
>>>> data model where horizontal tables are converted into vertical
>>>> direction, that is, there is one row per fom field, not a column.
>>>>
>>>> I was warned about using C2.11 for this, but I wanted to use it
>>>> anyway because I was familiar with it already. Now I would like
>>>> to get rid of C2.11 but I really don't know how. I would like
>>>> to switch into C3 but that is something I am not familiar with.
>>>>
>>>> I could go with the stream and use AJAX and like jQuery.. still
>>>> i would have the same problem - how to create controls out of
>>>> XML definition. So XML driven form platform is something I
>>>> would prefer, you see, I would only need XSLT.
>>>>
>>>> I hope I made my needs little clearer.
>>>
>>> Yes, definitely.
>>> *
>>> *Basically, you need to dynamically build some web forms from an
>>> XML definition you get from an external source: let me say that
>>> this is a perfect suite for C2.1 (and C2.2) with CForms.
>>>
>>> Now, since you want to move away from C2.1 (and not for C2.2 I
>>> guess), you'd like to have some tools that, parsing the XML form
>>> definition generates a Wicket form, with all controls full featured.
>>>
>>> While this is perfectly feasible without C3 (I did something
>>> similar, even though limited, in Apache Syncope), I'd think you
>>> could empower the integration between C3 and Wicket for this
>>> purpose. Only, consider that there is nothing implemented yet in
>>> this respect, so you would be the first.
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>>> 17.2.2013 20:30, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>>>> On 15/02/2013 22:11, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I have an application using dynamic Cforms (C2.11), that is,
>>>>>> the Cforms definition and templates are created from dynamic
>>>>>> XML through XSL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can this be done with C3 and wickets?
>>>>>> From somewhere I read about the fact that with Apache Wickets
>>>>>> you don't need any XML..
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mika,
>>>>> what do you want to achieve exactly?
>>>>>
>>>>> Apache Wicket is a component-based framework for developing
>>>>> web applications: I know from their project site that the
>>>>> project claims "a refreshing lack of XML", and I also know
>>>>> that Wicket fully supports form processing.
>>>>>
>>>>> From the other side, Cocoon 3.0 features Wicket integration
>>>>> (more details at [1]) that can help achieving some particular
>>>>> use cases.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]
>>>>> http://cocoon.apache.org/3.0/reference/html-single/index.html#wicket-integration
>>> --
>>> Francesco Chicchiriccò
>>>
>>> ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
>>> http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/ <http://people.apache.org/%7Eilgrosso/>
>>
>>
--
Francesco Chicchiriccò
ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/
Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>.
Is HTML5 something you can really use already having wide range of
browsers supported?
(Or at least FF, IE and Chrome)
- mika -
18.2.2013 14:09, gelo1234 kirjoitti:
> Why using CForms at all ? If you use XSLT you can transform dynamic
> XML data into HTML5 native forms templates.
>
> Greetings,
> -Greg
>
>
> 2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mika@digikartta.net
> <ma...@digikartta.net>>
>
> Yep,
> sounds like a lot of work and like re-inventing the wheel..
>
> - mika -
>
>
> 18.2.2013 10:47, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>> On 17/02/2013 20:08, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>> Hi Francesco,
>>> let me tell you what I have now.
>>> I implemented a feedback web application for municipial use with
>>> C2.11. The app is built so that the administrator can create
>>> forms picking fields and controls he/she needs. These setting
>>> are saved into db. The end-user app reads these settings from
>>> db, creates XML definition and through XSL transforms these
>>> settings into valid Cforms definition/template and finally
>>> creates forms wanted out of this all.
>>>
>>> This is highly dynamic system where we also implemented special
>>> data model where horizontal tables are converted into vertical
>>> direction, that is, there is one row per fom field, not a column.
>>>
>>> I was warned about using C2.11 for this, but I wanted to use it
>>> anyway because I was familiar with it already. Now I would like
>>> to get rid of C2.11 but I really don't know how. I would like to
>>> switch into C3 but that is something I am not familiar with.
>>>
>>> I could go with the stream and use AJAX and like jQuery.. still
>>> i would have the same problem - how to create controls out of
>>> XML definition. So XML driven form platform is something I would
>>> prefer, you see, I would only need XSLT.
>>>
>>> I hope I made my needs little clearer.
>>
>> Yes, definitely.
>> *
>> *Basically, you need to dynamically build some web forms from an
>> XML definition you get from an external source: let me say that
>> this is a perfect suite for C2.1 (and C2.2) with CForms.
>>
>> Now, since you want to move away from C2.1 (and not for C2.2 I
>> guess), you'd like to have some tools that, parsing the XML form
>> definition generates a Wicket form, with all controls full featured.
>>
>> While this is perfectly feasible without C3 (I did something
>> similar, even though limited, in Apache Syncope), I'd think you
>> could empower the integration between C3 and Wicket for this
>> purpose. Only, consider that there is nothing implemented yet in
>> this respect, so you would be the first.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>>> 17.2.2013 20:30, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>>> On 15/02/2013 22:11, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I have an application using dynamic Cforms (C2.11), that is,
>>>>> the Cforms definition and templates are created from dynamic
>>>>> XML through XSL.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can this be done with C3 and wickets?
>>>>> From somewhere I read about the fact that with Apache Wickets
>>>>> you don't need any XML..
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mika,
>>>> what do you want to achieve exactly?
>>>>
>>>> Apache Wicket is a component-based framework for developing web
>>>> applications: I know from their project site that the project
>>>> claims "a refreshing lack of XML", and I also know that Wicket
>>>> fully supports form processing.
>>>>
>>>> From the other side, Cocoon 3.0 features Wicket integration
>>>> (more details at [1]) that can help achieving some particular
>>>> use cases.
>>>>
>>>> Regards.
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>> http://cocoon.apache.org/3.0/reference/html-single/index.html#wicket-integration
>> --
>> Francesco Chicchiriccò
>>
>> ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
>> http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/ <http://people.apache.org/%7Eilgrosso/>
>
>
Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by gelo1234 <ge...@gmail.com>.
Why using CForms at all ? If you use XSLT you can transform dynamic XML
data into HTML5 native forms templates.
Greetings,
-Greg
2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>
> Yep,
> sounds like a lot of work and like re-inventing the wheel..
>
> - mika -
>
>
> 18.2.2013 10:47, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>
> On 17/02/2013 20:08, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>
> Hi Francesco,
> let me tell you what I have now.
> I implemented a feedback web application for municipial use with C2.11.
> The app is built so that the administrator can create forms picking fields
> and controls he/she needs. These setting are saved into db. The end-user
> app reads these settings from db, creates XML definition and through XSL
> transforms these settings into valid Cforms definition/template and finally
> creates forms wanted out of this all.
>
> This is highly dynamic system where we also implemented special data model
> where horizontal tables are converted into vertical direction, that is,
> there is one row per fom field, not a column.
>
> I was warned about using C2.11 for this, but I wanted to use it anyway
> because I was familiar with it already. Now I would like to get rid of
> C2.11 but I really don't know how. I would like to switch into C3 but that
> is something I am not familiar with.
>
> I could go with the stream and use AJAX and like jQuery.. still i would
> have the same problem - how to create controls out of XML definition. So
> XML driven form platform is something I would prefer, you see, I would only
> need XSLT.
>
> I hope I made my needs little clearer.
>
>
> Yes, definitely.
> *
> *Basically, you need to dynamically build some web forms from an XML
> definition you get from an external source: let me say that this is a
> perfect suite for C2.1 (and C2.2) with CForms.
>
> Now, since you want to move away from C2.1 (and not for C2.2 I guess),
> you'd like to have some tools that, parsing the XML form definition
> generates a Wicket form, with all controls full featured.
>
> While this is perfectly feasible without C3 (I did something similar, even
> though limited, in Apache Syncope), I'd think you could empower the
> integration between C3 and Wicket for this purpose. Only, consider that
> there is nothing implemented yet in this respect, so you would be the first.
>
> Regards.
>
> 17.2.2013 20:30, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>
> On 15/02/2013 22:11, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I have an application using dynamic Cforms (C2.11), that is, the Cforms
> definition and templates are created from dynamic XML through XSL.
>
> Can this be done with C3 and wickets?
> From somewhere I read about the fact that with Apache Wickets you don't
> need any XML..
>
>
> Hi Mika,
> what do you want to achieve exactly?
>
> Apache Wicket is a component-based framework for developing web
> applications: I know from their project site that the project claims "a
> refreshing lack of XML", and I also know that Wicket fully supports form
> processing.
>
> From the other side, Cocoon 3.0 features Wicket integration (more details
> at [1]) that can help achieving some particular use cases.
>
> Regards.
>
> [1]
> http://cocoon.apache.org/3.0/reference/html-single/index.html#wicket-integration
>
> --
> Francesco Chicchiriccò
>
> ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Memberhttp://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/
>
>
>
Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>.
Yep,
sounds like a lot of work and like re-inventing the wheel..
- mika -
18.2.2013 10:47, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
> On 17/02/2013 20:08, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>> Hi Francesco,
>> let me tell you what I have now.
>> I implemented a feedback web application for municipial use with
>> C2.11. The app is built so that the administrator can create forms
>> picking fields and controls he/she needs. These setting are saved
>> into db. The end-user app reads these settings from db, creates XML
>> definition and through XSL transforms these settings into valid
>> Cforms definition/template and finally creates forms wanted out of
>> this all.
>>
>> This is highly dynamic system where we also implemented special data
>> model where horizontal tables are converted into vertical direction,
>> that is, there is one row per fom field, not a column.
>>
>> I was warned about using C2.11 for this, but I wanted to use it
>> anyway because I was familiar with it already. Now I would like to
>> get rid of C2.11 but I really don't know how. I would like to switch
>> into C3 but that is something I am not familiar with.
>>
>> I could go with the stream and use AJAX and like jQuery.. still i
>> would have the same problem - how to create controls out of XML
>> definition. So XML driven form platform is something I would prefer,
>> you see, I would only need XSLT.
>>
>> I hope I made my needs little clearer.
>
> Yes, definitely.
> *
> *Basically, you need to dynamically build some web forms from an XML
> definition you get from an external source: let me say that this is a
> perfect suite for C2.1 (and C2.2) with CForms.
>
> Now, since you want to move away from C2.1 (and not for C2.2 I guess),
> you'd like to have some tools that, parsing the XML form definition
> generates a Wicket form, with all controls full featured.
>
> While this is perfectly feasible without C3 (I did something similar,
> even though limited, in Apache Syncope), I'd think you could empower
> the integration between C3 and Wicket for this purpose. Only, consider
> that there is nothing implemented yet in this respect, so you would be
> the first.
>
> Regards.
>
>> 17.2.2013 20:30, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>> On 15/02/2013 22:11, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I have an application using dynamic Cforms (C2.11), that is, the
>>>> Cforms definition and templates are created from dynamic XML
>>>> through XSL.
>>>>
>>>> Can this be done with C3 and wickets?
>>>> From somewhere I read about the fact that with Apache Wickets you
>>>> don't need any XML..
>>>
>>> Hi Mika,
>>> what do you want to achieve exactly?
>>>
>>> Apache Wicket is a component-based framework for developing web
>>> applications: I know from their project site that the project claims
>>> "a refreshing lack of XML", and I also know that Wicket fully
>>> supports form processing.
>>>
>>> From the other side, Cocoon 3.0 features Wicket integration (more
>>> details at [1]) that can help achieving some particular use cases.
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> http://cocoon.apache.org/3.0/reference/html-single/index.html#wicket-integration
> --
> Francesco Chicchiriccò
>
> ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
> http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/
Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Francesco Chicchiriccò <il...@apache.org>.
On 17/02/2013 20:08, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
> Hi Francesco,
> let me tell you what I have now.
> I implemented a feedback web application for municipial use with
> C2.11. The app is built so that the administrator can create forms
> picking fields and controls he/she needs. These setting are saved into
> db. The end-user app reads these settings from db, creates XML
> definition and through XSL transforms these settings into valid Cforms
> definition/template and finally creates forms wanted out of this all.
>
> This is highly dynamic system where we also implemented special data
> model where horizontal tables are converted into vertical direction,
> that is, there is one row per fom field, not a column.
>
> I was warned about using C2.11 for this, but I wanted to use it anyway
> because I was familiar with it already. Now I would like to get rid of
> C2.11 but I really don't know how. I would like to switch into C3 but
> that is something I am not familiar with.
>
> I could go with the stream and use AJAX and like jQuery.. still i
> would have the same problem - how to create controls out of XML
> definition. So XML driven form platform is something I would prefer,
> you see, I would only need XSLT.
>
> I hope I made my needs little clearer.
Yes, definitely.
*
*Basically, you need to dynamically build some web forms from an XML
definition you get from an external source: let me say that this is a
perfect suite for C2.1 (and C2.2) with CForms.
Now, since you want to move away from C2.1 (and not for C2.2 I guess),
you'd like to have some tools that, parsing the XML form definition
generates a Wicket form, with all controls full featured.
While this is perfectly feasible without C3 (I did something similar,
even though limited, in Apache Syncope), I'd think you could empower the
integration between C3 and Wicket for this purpose. Only, consider that
there is nothing implemented yet in this respect, so you would be the first.
Regards.
> 17.2.2013 20:30, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>> On 15/02/2013 22:11, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I have an application using dynamic Cforms (C2.11), that is, the
>>> Cforms definition and templates are created from dynamic XML through
>>> XSL.
>>>
>>> Can this be done with C3 and wickets?
>>> From somewhere I read about the fact that with Apache Wickets you
>>> don't need any XML..
>>
>> Hi Mika,
>> what do you want to achieve exactly?
>>
>> Apache Wicket is a component-based framework for developing web
>> applications: I know from their project site that the project claims
>> "a refreshing lack of XML", and I also know that Wicket fully
>> supports form processing.
>>
>> From the other side, Cocoon 3.0 features Wicket integration (more
>> details at [1]) that can help achieving some particular use cases.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> [1]
>> http://cocoon.apache.org/3.0/reference/html-single/index.html#wicket-integration
--
Francesco Chicchiriccò
ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/
Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Mika M Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>.
Hi Francesco,
let me tell you what I have now.
I implemented a feedback web application for municipial use with C2.11.
The app is built so that the administrator can create forms picking
fields and controls he/she needs. These setting are saved into db. The
end-user app reads these settings from db, creates XML definition and
through XSL transforms these settings into valid Cforms
definition/template and finally creates forms wanted out of this all.
This is highly dynamic system where we also implemented special data
model where horizontal tables are converted into vertical direction,
that is, there is one row per fom field, not a column.
I was warned about using C2.11 for this, but I wanted to use it anyway
because I was familiar with it already. Now I would like to get rid of
C2.11 but I really don't know how. I would like to switch into C3 but
that is something I am not familiar with.
I could go with the stream and use AJAX and like jQuery.. still i would
have the same problem - how to create controls out of XML definition. So
XML driven form platform is something I would prefer, you see, I would
only need XSLT.
I hope I made my needs little clearer.
- mika -
17.2.2013 20:30, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
> On 15/02/2013 22:11, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I have an application using dynamic Cforms (C2.11), that is, the
>> Cforms definition and templates are created from dynamic XML through
>> XSL.
>>
>> Can this be done with C3 and wickets?
>> From somewhere I read about the fact that with Apache Wickets you
>> don't need any XML..
>
> Hi Mika,
> what do you want to achieve exactly?
>
> Apache Wicket is a component-based framework for developing web
> applications: I know from their project site that the project claims
> "a refreshing lack of XML", and I also know that Wicket fully supports
> form processing.
>
> From the other side, Cocoon 3.0 features Wicket integration (more
> details at [1]) that can help achieving some particular use cases.
>
> Regards.
>
> [1]
> http://cocoon.apache.org/3.0/reference/html-single/index.html#wicket-integration
>
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Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Posted by Francesco Chicchiriccò <il...@apache.org>.
On 15/02/2013 22:11, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
> Hi,
> I have an application using dynamic Cforms (C2.11), that is, the
> Cforms definition and templates are created from dynamic XML through XSL.
>
> Can this be done with C3 and wickets?
> From somewhere I read about the fact that with Apache Wickets you
> don't need any XML..
Hi Mika,
what do you want to achieve exactly?
Apache Wicket is a component-based framework for developing web
applications: I know from their project site that the project claims "a
refreshing lack of XML", and I also know that Wicket fully supports form
processing.
From the other side, Cocoon 3.0 features Wicket integration (more
details at [1]) that can help achieving some particular use cases.
Regards.
[1]
http://cocoon.apache.org/3.0/reference/html-single/index.html#wicket-integration
--
Francesco Chicchiriccò
ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/
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