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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Billie Rinaldi <bi...@apache.org> on 2015/01/15 20:53:36 UTC
Clarification on adding a new PPMC member
Recent edits to [1] have made the process of adding a PPMC member
confusing. Previously, the instructions said to 1) forward the initial
vote message to the IPMC, 2) invite the member upon a successful vote, and
3) send a note to the IPMC announcing the new member with the message ID of
the vote result.
Now the page also says there is a 72 hour waiting period before you can
invite the member. This doesn't make sense, because the instructions say
to send the vote result to the IPMC _after_ inviting the member.
Is the addition of the waiting period correct? If so, we should change the
instructions to have a clear ordering: forward initial vote, forward vote
result, wait 72 hours, invite the new member. I'll be happy to make the
changes to the instructions, but I want to make sure I'm clarifying them
correctly.
[1]: http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html
Re: Clarification on adding a new PPMC member
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:16 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Thursday, January 15, 2015, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
> wrote:
>
>> General principle: inviting a PPMC member to join a podling should use
>> exactly the same routine as inviting a PMC member to join a TLP,
>> except that the entity being notified is the IPMC rather than the
>> Board.
>>
> But a TLP does not advice board when voting begins a podling must with
> current rules.
The rules for a TLP are defined in a Board resolution from June 2013. Here's
the relevant passage, which is a little quirky:
http://apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/2013/board_minutes_2013_06_19.txt
1) A notice of the appointment shall be delivered to the Board's
mailing list and the PMC's private discussion list, as recorded
within the Foundation's mailing list archives, at least 72 hours
prior to the effective date of the appointment, where said notice
may be sent by the chairman, or by any existing member of the PMC
if it contains a link to a formal decision by the PMC approving
of the appointment;
The quirk is, if the PMC Chair sends the NOTICE email, it doesn't need to
contain a link to the VOTE result, whereas if any other PMC member sends it
they need a link. This means that for a TLP at least, if the PMC Chair sends
the NOTICE email, they don't have to wait for the VOTE to conclude, while
anybody else has to.
OK, whatever[1]. PPMCs don't have Chairs, so the Incubator can't mirror the
TLP procedure exactly. But IMO the Incubator should get as close as possible
so that podlings don't have to relearn much when they graduate.
Personally, I'd like to see the Incubator drop the initial notification that a
vote is underway, leaving only the 72-hour NOTICE to the IPMC referencing the
vote result.
Marvin Humphrey
[1] I'd cite this as an example of how committing to concrete language can
introduce unexpected complexity, as discussed in recent threads
(<http://s.apache.org/s7v>) -- and thus an illustration of why minimizing
absolute requirements is important.
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Re: Clarification on adding a new PPMC member
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On Thursday, January 15, 2015, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
wrote:
> General principle: inviting a PPMC member to join a podling should use
> exactly the same routine as inviting a PMC member to join a TLP,
> except that the entity being notified is the IPMC rather than the
> Board.
>
> But a TLP does not advice board when voting begins a podling must with
current rules.
rgds
jan i
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Billie Rinaldi <billie@apache.org
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > Recent edits to [1] have made the process of adding a PPMC member
> > confusing. Previously, the instructions said to 1) forward the initial
> > vote message to the IPMC, 2) invite the member upon a successful vote,
> and
> > 3) send a note to the IPMC announcing the new member with the message ID
> of
> > the vote result.
> >
> > Now the page also says there is a 72 hour waiting period before you can
> > invite the member. This doesn't make sense, because the instructions say
> > to send the vote result to the IPMC _after_ inviting the member.
> >
> > Is the addition of the waiting period correct? If so, we should change
> the
> > instructions to have a clear ordering: forward initial vote, forward vote
> > result, wait 72 hours, invite the new member. I'll be happy to make the
> > changes to the instructions, but I want to make sure I'm clarifying them
> > correctly.
> >
> > [1]: http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html
>
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Re: Clarification on adding a new PPMC member
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
General principle: inviting a PPMC member to join a podling should use
exactly the same routine as inviting a PMC member to join a TLP,
except that the entity being notified is the IPMC rather than the
Board.
Marvin Humphrey
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Billie Rinaldi <bi...@apache.org> wrote:
> Recent edits to [1] have made the process of adding a PPMC member
> confusing. Previously, the instructions said to 1) forward the initial
> vote message to the IPMC, 2) invite the member upon a successful vote, and
> 3) send a note to the IPMC announcing the new member with the message ID of
> the vote result.
>
> Now the page also says there is a 72 hour waiting period before you can
> invite the member. This doesn't make sense, because the instructions say
> to send the vote result to the IPMC _after_ inviting the member.
>
> Is the addition of the waiting period correct? If so, we should change the
> instructions to have a clear ordering: forward initial vote, forward vote
> result, wait 72 hours, invite the new member. I'll be happy to make the
> changes to the instructions, but I want to make sure I'm clarifying them
> correctly.
>
> [1]: http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html
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