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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> on 2012/08/30 10:51:39 UTC

Clipart library

I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could use
this then as a useful resource to complement AOO. Any thoughts about
the best way to implement making the categorised library available to
the community?

-- 
Ian

Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)

www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Armin Le Grand <Ar...@me.com>.

Hi Ian,

On 14.09.2012 15:49, Ian Lynch wrote:
> On 14 September 2012 03:23, Armin Le Grand <Ar...@me.com> wrote:
>> Hi Joost,
>>
>>
>> On 13.09.2012 15:43, Joost Andrae wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Armin,
>>>
>>> I can still reproduce the behavior described:
>>>
>>> Open eg.
>>> http://openclipart.org/detail/172011/racing-helmet-by-gnokii-172011 in
>>> Firefox and drag the SVG file to the Gallery in AOO. On my system (Win7
>>> Pro 64 Bit) the resulting Gallery entry is a BMP file.
>>
>>
>> It is also a bitmap file when dragging it to Inkscae. This is because the
>> D&D contains a bitmap already. To get the svg file, you need to right-click
>> on the helmet and use 'save link as' and save it somewher. From there, you
>> can drag the real SVG.
>>
>> HTH!
>>
>>
>>>> Joost wrote somewhere in this thread that SVG dropped to the gallery is
>>>> converted to bitmap formats. I checked this and it is not true.
>>>>
>>>> When using a SVG from the gallery and svaing the document, I checked the
>>>> SVG embedded into the ODF format - it's exactly (byte by byte) the
>>>> original SVG I was dropping to the gallery.
>>>>
>>>> Works as intended/expected.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards, Joost
>>>
>>
>
> Hi Armin,
>
> Do you know why drag and drop of files from the Nautilus filer to the
> gallery works with complex svg with embeded bitmaps but not odg?
>
No, sorry. I'm not in the code, just tried myself with SVG and found out 
by experiment that it does not work directly. No idea about odg, but 
somewhere in the code fo rthe gallery there must be a file type detection.

Sincerely,
	Armin
--
ALG

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.

On 14 September 2012 03:23, Armin Le Grand <Ar...@me.com> wrote:
> Hi Joost,
>
>
> On 13.09.2012 15:43, Joost Andrae wrote:
>>
>> Hi Armin,
>>
>> I can still reproduce the behavior described:
>>
>> Open eg.
>> http://openclipart.org/detail/172011/racing-helmet-by-gnokii-172011 in
>> Firefox and drag the SVG file to the Gallery in AOO. On my system (Win7
>> Pro 64 Bit) the resulting Gallery entry is a BMP file.
>
>
> It is also a bitmap file when dragging it to Inkscae. This is because the
> D&D contains a bitmap already. To get the svg file, you need to right-click
> on the helmet and use 'save link as' and save it somewher. From there, you
> can drag the real SVG.
>
> HTH!
>
>
>>> Joost wrote somewhere in this thread that SVG dropped to the gallery is
>>> converted to bitmap formats. I checked this and it is not true.
>>>
>>> When using a SVG from the gallery and svaing the document, I checked the
>>> SVG embedded into the ODF format - it's exactly (byte by byte) the
>>> original SVG I was dropping to the gallery.
>>>
>>> Works as intended/expected.
>>>
>>
>> Kind regards, Joost
>>
>

Hi Armin,

Do you know why drag and drop of files from the Nautilus filer to the
gallery works with complex svg with embeded bitmaps but not odg?

-- 
Ian

Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)

www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Armin Le Grand <Ar...@me.com>.

Hi Joost,

On 13.09.2012 15:43, Joost Andrae wrote:
> Hi Armin,
>
> I can still reproduce the behavior described:
>
> Open eg.
> http://openclipart.org/detail/172011/racing-helmet-by-gnokii-172011 in
> Firefox and drag the SVG file to the Gallery in AOO. On my system (Win7
> Pro 64 Bit) the resulting Gallery entry is a BMP file.

It is also a bitmap file when dragging it to Inkscae. This is because 
the D&D contains a bitmap already. To get the svg file, you need to 
right-click on the helmet and use 'save link as' and save it somewher. 
 From there, you can drag the real SVG.

HTH!

>> Joost wrote somewhere in this thread that SVG dropped to the gallery is
>> converted to bitmap formats. I checked this and it is not true.
>>
>> When using a SVG from the gallery and svaing the document, I checked the
>> SVG embedded into the ODF format - it's exactly (byte by byte) the
>> original SVG I was dropping to the gallery.
>>
>> Works as intended/expected.
>>
>
> Kind regards, Joost
>

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Joost Andrae <Jo...@gmx.de>.

Hi Armin,

I can still reproduce the behavior described:

Open eg. 
http://openclipart.org/detail/172011/racing-helmet-by-gnokii-172011 in 
Firefox and drag the SVG file to the Gallery in AOO. On my system (Win7 
Pro 64 Bit) the resulting Gallery entry is a BMP file.

> Joost wrote somewhere in this thread that SVG dropped to the gallery is
> converted to bitmap formats. I checked this and it is not true.
>
> When using a SVG from the gallery and svaing the document, I checked the
> SVG embedded into the ODF format - it's exactly (byte by byte) the
> original SVG I was dropping to the gallery.
>
> Works as intended/expected.
>

Kind regards, Joost

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Armin Le Grand <Ar...@me.com>.

Hi,

Joost wrote somewhere in this thread that SVG dropped to the gallery is 
converted to bitmap formats. I checked this and it is not true.

When using a SVG from the gallery and svaing the document, I checked the 
SVG embedded into the ODF format - it's exactly (byte by byte) the 
original SVG I was dropping to the gallery.

Works as intended/expected.

On 12.09.2012 14:42, Armin Le Grand wrote:
> Hi,
>
> just wanted to mention: I just tried it out, SVG graphics can now be
> part of the existing gallery due to the added SVG import support. D&D
> SVG into gallery theme works like a charm. Thus, all SVG cliparts can be
> added to whatever form of clipart extension/builtin.
>
> On 30.08.2012 16:51, Ian Lynch wrote:t
>> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could use
>> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO. Any thoughts about
>> the best way to implement making the categorised library available to
>> the community?
>>
>
>

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.

On 12 September 2012 19:35, Regina Henschel <rb...@t-online.de> wrote:
> Hi Ian,
>
> Ian Lynch schrieb:
>
>> On 12 September 2012 17:52, Juergen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Am Mittwoch, 12. September 2012 um 08:42 schrieb Armin Le Grand:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> just wanted to mention: I just tried it out, SVG graphics can now be
>>>> part of the existing gallery due to the added SVG import support. D&D
>>>> SVG into gallery theme works like a charm. Thus, all SVG cliparts can be
>>>> added to whatever form of clipart extension/builtin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> this is very nice, thanks for the info
>>
>>
>> I tried to drag an odg drawing into the gallery and it didn't work.
>> That seems strange. I expected odg would be the first filetype to be
>> accepted - am I missing something? (ok don't say a brain ;-) )
>>
>
> What do you try? I don't understand "drag an odg drawing into the gallery".

Hi Regina,

Sorry, I'll try to  give better information.

I'm using AOO 3.4.0 on Ubuntu 12.04.

I open up Writer and the gallery window. I go to a filer window and
find a .png or .svg file and drag it from the filer window to the
gallery window and the file images appear in the gallery. I open the
svg file in Draw and save it back as a .odg file and it appears in the
filer window. I then drag the .odg file from the filer window to the
gallery and it doesn't accept it. It seems strange to me that the
gallery accepts .png and .svg direct imports like this but not files
in the native format of AOO.

> If you have a Draw document opened and drag an object (oval, star, 3D-scene)
> from the edit window to the gallery, that should work without problems.
>
> Or do you try to drag an odg-document from your file manager to the gallery?
> I would not expect, that it works, because it is a complete document and not
> only the part, which contains a single object.

So why does it work with a .svg file? I have one that is complex with
a mixture of raster and vector components and it goes straight in.

If I wanted to take a selection of clip art from my filer into AOO
gallery, dragging and dropping the files from the filer window is
quick and easy as well as intuitive to the average user. In practice I
can see that this might be more likely with .svg, png and jpg files as
they are much more common than .odg. However, that then begs the
question of why we have a .odg format at all and don't just use .svg.
(Ok I know its a lot of work to do that but in principle).

It's a bit of a dilemma with using the OpenClipart library because
ideally all the images would be editable. The only real way to
guarantee that is to fully support svg. In terms of distribution
bandwidth, simple clip art in vector files take up very little space
so bundling a reasonable selection of arrows symbols etc in the main
distribution would be possible without increasing the size of the
download very much. Our average Windows user is going to be a lot
happier seeing at least some of these things on first installation
from the download.

My take on bloat is that if it makes things more complex to use or
slows down day to day operations it is a high priority to avoid it
because of its affect on the user experience. If it makes things
easier to use and only has the effect of a marginal increase in
download size it might well be that the benefits in encouraging wider
take up outweigh that specific disadvantage, especially as high speed
connections are more and more common. If a file of 135 Meg can be
downloaded OK, one of 140 or 150 is not going to make a significant
difference. For that reason I think we should provide more ready
usable clip art in the gallery and make it easy and intuitive as
possible to add more. If that principle is accepted the question then
is how much and in what format?

-- 
Ian

Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)

www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Regina Henschel <rb...@t-online.de>.

Hi Ian,

Ian Lynch schrieb:
> On 12 September 2012 17:52, Juergen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Am Mittwoch, 12. September 2012 um 08:42 schrieb Armin Le Grand:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> just wanted to mention: I just tried it out, SVG graphics can now be
>>> part of the existing gallery due to the added SVG import support. D&D
>>> SVG into gallery theme works like a charm. Thus, all SVG cliparts can be
>>> added to whatever form of clipart extension/builtin.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> this is very nice, thanks for the info
>
> I tried to drag an odg drawing into the gallery and it didn't work.
> That seems strange. I expected odg would be the first filetype to be
> accepted - am I missing something? (ok don't say a brain ;-) )
>

What do you try? I don't understand "drag an odg drawing into the gallery".

If you have a Draw document opened and drag an object (oval, star, 
3D-scene) from the edit window to the gallery, that should work without 
problems.

Or do you try to drag an odg-document from your file manager to the 
gallery? I would not expect, that it works, because it is a complete 
document and not only the part, which contains a single object.

Kind regards
Regina

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.

On 12 September 2012 17:52, Juergen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 12. September 2012 um 08:42 schrieb Armin Le Grand:
>> Hi,
>>
>> just wanted to mention: I just tried it out, SVG graphics can now be
>> part of the existing gallery due to the added SVG import support. D&D
>> SVG into gallery theme works like a charm. Thus, all SVG cliparts can be
>> added to whatever form of clipart extension/builtin.
>>
>>
>
> this is very nice, thanks for the info

I tried to drag an odg drawing into the gallery and it didn't work.
That seems strange. I expected odg would be the first filetype to be
accepted - am I missing something? (ok don't say a brain ;-) )

-- 
Ian

Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)

www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Juergen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.

Am Mittwoch, 12. September 2012 um 08:42 schrieb Armin Le Grand:
> Hi,
> 
> just wanted to mention: I just tried it out, SVG graphics can now be 
> part of the existing gallery due to the added SVG import support. D&D 
> SVG into gallery theme works like a charm. Thus, all SVG cliparts can be 
> added to whatever form of clipart extension/builtin.
> 
> 

this is very nice, thanks for the info 

Juergen 
> 
> On 30.08.2012 16:51, Ian Lynch wrote:t
> > I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could use
> > this then as a useful resource to complement AOO. Any thoughts about
> > the best way to implement making the categorised library available to
> > the community?
> > 
> 
> 
>

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Armin Le Grand <Ar...@me.com>.

Hi,

just wanted to mention: I just tried it out, SVG graphics can now be 
part of the existing gallery due to the added SVG import support. D&D 
SVG into gallery theme works like a charm. Thus, all SVG cliparts can be 
added to whatever form of clipart extension/builtin.

On 30.08.2012 16:51, Ian Lynch wrote:t
> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could use
> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO. Any thoughts about
> the best way to implement making the categorised library available to
> the community?
>

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>.

On 8/30/12, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> KG02 -see comments inline.
>
> On Friday, August 31, 2012 <x-apple-data-detectors://45>, Ian Lynch wrote:
>
>> On 30 August 2012 09:57, Kevin Grignon
>> <kevingrignon.oo@gmail.com<javascript:;>>
>> wrote:
>> > KG01 - see comments inline.
>> >
>> > On Aug 30, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Ian Lynch
>> > <ianrlynch@gmail.com<javascript:;>>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could use
>> >> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO.
>> >
>> > KG01 - This adds a lot of value. Ideally we could aim to align the
>> information architecture for the categorization. This would allow users
>> to
>> leverage the existing knowledge when browse in each library.
>> >
>> >> Any thoughts about
>> >> the best way to implement making the categorised library available to
>> >> the community?
>> >
>> > KG01 - it would be great to explore ways to make the open clip art more
>> accessible/discoverable within AoO clipart view. Some social integration
>> could enable pulling clipart into editors, or pushing an image from an
>> editor to the open library.

I do remember the SVG editor Inkscape having such features but they
discontinued the Export due to some issues wiht spam and heavy load on
the OpenClipart.org site. Althought the reasoning is not straight
foward.
Right now only Import  works in Inkscape which is a browser that do
categorize the images it retrieve from the site.
There was a development in Google Summer of Code  years ago for Go'OO
which had to do with OpenClipart-OpenOffice.org, not sure if this code
was ever ported back.
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/build/commit/?id=f3a517b005a31607b373393600ac41237a55b1f4


>> >
>> > While we could create a plug-in, it would be a better unified ux if we
>> integrate open clip art and local clipart in one UI.
>>
>> At present I'm just going through all the folders from OpenClipart.org
>> and putting them into arbitrary folders labelled Animals, People,
>> Transport, Food etc. This is because each contributor simply puts
>> often unconnected files in a folder so images on OpenClipart.org are
>> grouped by author not type (unless I'm missiong something :-) ). While
>> there are some aggregations and an on-line indexing system on the
>> OpenClipart.org site I haven't found it particularly easy to find
>> things. It seems easier to me to have a folder called eg Animals  with
>> sub folders for birds, insects, mammals, perhaps with subdivisions of
>> cartoon and realistic in each. There are png and svg versions of each
>> image. Ideally we'll get import of svg to AOO so that these can be
>> edited or resaved in odg or odg will develop to be fully svg compliant
>> but I guess that is further down the development road. Once we have
>> the categories established they could be embedded in the AOO gallery
>> system and anyone wanting to could add to the library to complement
>> missing items. Probably helpful for the OpenClipArt project too. There
>> really are masses of images to sort through but a lot of duplicates -
>> millions of pencils and pens :-) This is why a visual search of a
>> folder called pens is probably going to be more successful than trying
>> to search for key words.
>
>
> KG02 - yes, it would be great to clean this up
>
>>
>> So at the moment I propose to plough on sorting the images and
>> hopefully when they are done someone (perhaps you kevin :-) ) Who
>> knows more about how the UX can work with the imagescan help make it
>> easy to integrate into the gallery.
>
>
> KG02 - This is an interesting consideration.  When we think about social,
> we need to apply the social integration to the context of office
> productivity.  I feel that social clip art is a great example of future
> capabilities.
>
> KG02 - I will include this scenario in the social design explorations.
>
>>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Ian
>> >>
>> >> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>> >>
>> >> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 <+44%20(0)1827%20305940>
>> >>
>> >> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby
>> >> Road<x-apple-data-detectors://55>,
>> Tamworth,
>> >> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>> >> Wales.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>>
>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 <+44%20(0)1827%20305940>
>>
>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road,
>> Tamworth,<x-apple-data-detectors://59>
>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ <x-apple-data-detectors://59>. Reg No: 05560797,
>> Registered in England and
>> Wales.
>>
>


-- 
Alexandro Colorado
PPMC Apache OpenOffice
http://es.openoffice.org

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.

On 10 September 2012 12:26, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9/10/12 12:39 PM, Ian Lynch wrote:
>> On 10 September 2012 08:01, Shenfeng Liu <li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 2012/9/10 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>> On 9/9/12 11:36 PM, Ian Lynch wrote:
>>>>> On 3 September 2012 02:19, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> KG03 - see comments inline
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 31, 2012, at 4:12 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 31 August 2012 02:20, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> KG02 -see comments inline.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, August 31, 2012 <x-apple-data-detectors://45>, Ian Lynch
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 30 August 2012 09:57, Kevin Grignon <kevingrignon.oo@gmail.com
>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> KG01 - see comments inline.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 30, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com
>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could
>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>>> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> KG01 - This adds a lot of value. Ideally we could aim to align the
>>>>>>>>> information architecture for the categorization. This would allow
>>>> users to
>>>>>>>>> leverage the existing knowledge when browse in each library.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Any thoughts about
>>>>>>>>>>> the best way to implement making the categorised library available
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> the community?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> KG01 - it would be great to explore ways to make the open clip art
>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> accessible/discoverable within AoO clipart view. Some social
>>>> integration
>>>>>>>>> could enable pulling clipart into editors, or pushing an image from
>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> editor to the open library.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> While we could create a plug-in, it would be a better unified ux if
>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> integrate open clip art and local clipart in one UI.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At present I'm just going through all the folders from
>>>> OpenClipart.org
>>>>>>>>> and putting them into arbitrary folders labelled Animals, People,
>>>>>>>>> Transport, Food etc. This is because each contributor simply puts
>>>>>>>>> often unconnected files in a folder so images on OpenClipart.org are
>>>>>>>>> grouped by author not type (unless I'm missiong something :-) ).
>>>> While
>>>>>>>>> there are some aggregations and an on-line indexing system on the
>>>>>>>>> OpenClipart.org site I haven't found it particularly easy to find
>>>>>>>>> things. It seems easier to me to have a folder called eg Animals
>>>>  with
>>>>>>>>> sub folders for birds, insects, mammals, perhaps with subdivisions of
>>>>>>>>> cartoon and realistic in each. There are png and svg versions of each
>>>>>>>>> image. Ideally we'll get import of svg to AOO so that these can be
>>>>>>>>> edited or resaved in odg or odg will develop to be fully svg
>>>> compliant
>>>>>>>>> but I guess that is further down the development road. Once we have
>>>>>>>>> the categories established they could be embedded in the AOO gallery
>>>>>>>>> system and anyone wanting to could add to the library to complement
>>>>>>>>> missing items. Probably helpful for the OpenClipArt project too.
>>>> There
>>>>>>>>> really are masses of images to sort through but a lot of duplicates -
>>>>>>>>> millions of pencils and pens :-) This is why a visual search of a
>>>>>>>>> folder called pens is probably going to be more successful than
>>>> trying
>>>>>>>>> to search for key words.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> KG02 - yes, it would be great to clean this up
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So at the moment I propose to plough on sorting the images and
>>>>>>>>> hopefully when they are done someone (perhaps you kevin :-) ) Who
>>>>>>>>> knows more about how the UX can work with the imagescan help make it
>>>>>>>>> easy to integrate into the gallery.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> KG02 - This is an interesting consideration.  When we think about
>>>> social,
>>>>>>>> we need to apply the social integration to the context of office
>>>>>>>> productivity.  I feel that social clip art is a great example of
>>>> future
>>>>>>>> capabilities.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> KG02 - I will include this scenario in the social design explorations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Once I have finished first iteration of sorting I'll send you the
>>>>>>> details so you can see what we have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> KG03 - Ian, great job. Ya, reach out to me when your further along. In
>>>> the interim, I'll capture a clipart social scenario.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have put the sorted clip art in a zip file in my public drop box folder
>>>>>
>>>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1115462/casource.zip
>>>>>
>>>>> Snag is it is 360 meg! So not sure what is the best approach for
>>>>> dealing with it. Could probably do with further sorting but at least
>>>>> there is a good start so anyone could refine it to their particular
>>>>> needs much more quickly than starting from scratch.
>>>>
>>>> I think we probably don't want bundle it with AOO directly. I can think
>>>> of an extended gallery implementation where it is possible to hook
>>>> online galleries as well.
>>>>
>>>
>>> +1 (for Clipart as well as Template). AOO should provide a kind of
>>> capability (with extensions) to easily search or browse the online
>>> resources. It is another perspective of Cloud/Social Integration value.
>>>
>>> - Simon
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ok in case of OpenClipart it raises the question how it should be
>>>> organized/presented to our users. But allowing access to the online
>>>> resources will guarantee that we are up-to-date.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Juergen
>>
>> I was looking at LibreO implementation of OpenClipart in the gallery.
>> Its organised by author name so that doesn't seem to me very helpful.
>> I have been talking to the OpenClipart.org people and what I had was
>> an old archive - the most up to date is over 1 Gig compressed. That is
>> far too big to include in a standard distribution download although it
>> could be incorporated with a DVD distribution. The snag with an
>> on-line only library is that it will raise a barrier to some people.
>> So maybe consider a smaller subset of the most popular images in a
>> "standardised set" of gallery themes. 50 would be able to cover a wide
>> range of the most popular topics. AOO only comes with 4 populated
>> graphics themes and 1 sound. Let's say 5 meg of images distributed
>> across those themes and maybe then people can add to those themes
>> having got a start. They can always add or remove themes as they like.
>> We could devise an "up date" themes option that would then provide the
>> option to select further images from an on-line source, perhaps
>> openclipart.org itself and automatically filter them into the
>> appropriate galleries or access them as needed on-line.
>
> we should then start with working on this, shouldn't we. We have for
> example some nice new galleries available from Symphony that we can
> integrate easily. And the next step is to define how online galleries
> could be integrated. For example favorite images can be stored locally
> to provide offline usage etc. or you can mark images as favorites to
> easy navigate over them even in a big online gallery. Many open
> questions how it can be integrated best without breaking the user
> experience.
>
>>
>> Next job I'll do is define 50 themes and populate them with some of
>> the most popular images to see how that pans out. Even if we don't use
>> this with the main download, a distribution project (if we get one
>> going) could produce a DVD iso for down load with a set of extras not
>> included in the basic distribution download like with the old OOo
>> distribution project.
>
> The question is how it is integrated in the office. Do you want to make
> it available as one big extension or 1 oxt for every theme? Both is fine
> for me but I would keep as extensions and not bundled.

Talking with the OpenClipart people they have direct links from OC.o
to Inkscape. I'm wondering if that is a better or complementary
approach? Do we want dependency on the OC.o project or keep
independence? If they organise under a different set of theme titles
will that cause confusion? If we call a theme "Halloween" or "Ghosts"
there will be overlap. Its the snag with searching on the svg
metadata, its not always obvious from the graphic title what it is or
whether it is useful. Scanning a page of images and picking one by eye
can be easier and it seems to me that AOO users used to the gallery
and themes will be more used to that approach. That's why I was
thinking about a combination. More gallery themes with a selection of
images immediately available as soon as you install the basic download
but with options to either add to that or link to the OC.org full
database and search it from within AOO. Defining a new set of gallery
themes and adding some images is easy. I can do that. Programming
links to OC.o is more complicated and beyond what I could do and also
depends to an extent on that project.

> Juergen
>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>



-- 
Ian

Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)

www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.

On 9/10/12 12:39 PM, Ian Lynch wrote:
> On 10 September 2012 08:01, Shenfeng Liu <li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2012/9/10 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>
>>
>>> On 9/9/12 11:36 PM, Ian Lynch wrote:
>>>> On 3 September 2012 02:19, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> KG03 - see comments inline
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 31, 2012, at 4:12 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 31 August 2012 02:20, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> KG02 -see comments inline.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday, August 31, 2012 <x-apple-data-detectors://45>, Ian Lynch
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 30 August 2012 09:57, Kevin Grignon <kevingrignon.oo@gmail.com
>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> KG01 - see comments inline.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Aug 30, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com
>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could
>>> use
>>>>>>>>>> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> KG01 - This adds a lot of value. Ideally we could aim to align the
>>>>>>>> information architecture for the categorization. This would allow
>>> users to
>>>>>>>> leverage the existing knowledge when browse in each library.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any thoughts about
>>>>>>>>>> the best way to implement making the categorised library available
>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> the community?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> KG01 - it would be great to explore ways to make the open clip art
>>> more
>>>>>>>> accessible/discoverable within AoO clipart view. Some social
>>> integration
>>>>>>>> could enable pulling clipart into editors, or pushing an image from
>>> an
>>>>>>>> editor to the open library.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> While we could create a plug-in, it would be a better unified ux if
>>> we
>>>>>>>> integrate open clip art and local clipart in one UI.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At present I'm just going through all the folders from
>>> OpenClipart.org
>>>>>>>> and putting them into arbitrary folders labelled Animals, People,
>>>>>>>> Transport, Food etc. This is because each contributor simply puts
>>>>>>>> often unconnected files in a folder so images on OpenClipart.org are
>>>>>>>> grouped by author not type (unless I'm missiong something :-) ).
>>> While
>>>>>>>> there are some aggregations and an on-line indexing system on the
>>>>>>>> OpenClipart.org site I haven't found it particularly easy to find
>>>>>>>> things. It seems easier to me to have a folder called eg Animals
>>>  with
>>>>>>>> sub folders for birds, insects, mammals, perhaps with subdivisions of
>>>>>>>> cartoon and realistic in each. There are png and svg versions of each
>>>>>>>> image. Ideally we'll get import of svg to AOO so that these can be
>>>>>>>> edited or resaved in odg or odg will develop to be fully svg
>>> compliant
>>>>>>>> but I guess that is further down the development road. Once we have
>>>>>>>> the categories established they could be embedded in the AOO gallery
>>>>>>>> system and anyone wanting to could add to the library to complement
>>>>>>>> missing items. Probably helpful for the OpenClipArt project too.
>>> There
>>>>>>>> really are masses of images to sort through but a lot of duplicates -
>>>>>>>> millions of pencils and pens :-) This is why a visual search of a
>>>>>>>> folder called pens is probably going to be more successful than
>>> trying
>>>>>>>> to search for key words.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> KG02 - yes, it would be great to clean this up
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So at the moment I propose to plough on sorting the images and
>>>>>>>> hopefully when they are done someone (perhaps you kevin :-) ) Who
>>>>>>>> knows more about how the UX can work with the imagescan help make it
>>>>>>>> easy to integrate into the gallery.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> KG02 - This is an interesting consideration.  When we think about
>>> social,
>>>>>>> we need to apply the social integration to the context of office
>>>>>>> productivity.  I feel that social clip art is a great example of
>>> future
>>>>>>> capabilities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> KG02 - I will include this scenario in the social design explorations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once I have finished first iteration of sorting I'll send you the
>>>>>> details so you can see what we have.
>>>>>>
>>>>> KG03 - Ian, great job. Ya, reach out to me when your further along. In
>>> the interim, I'll capture a clipart social scenario.
>>>>
>>>> I have put the sorted clip art in a zip file in my public drop box folder
>>>>
>>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1115462/casource.zip
>>>>
>>>> Snag is it is 360 meg! So not sure what is the best approach for
>>>> dealing with it. Could probably do with further sorting but at least
>>>> there is a good start so anyone could refine it to their particular
>>>> needs much more quickly than starting from scratch.
>>>
>>> I think we probably don't want bundle it with AOO directly. I can think
>>> of an extended gallery implementation where it is possible to hook
>>> online galleries as well.
>>>
>>
>> +1 (for Clipart as well as Template). AOO should provide a kind of
>> capability (with extensions) to easily search or browse the online
>> resources. It is another perspective of Cloud/Social Integration value.
>>
>> - Simon
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Ok in case of OpenClipart it raises the question how it should be
>>> organized/presented to our users. But allowing access to the online
>>> resources will guarantee that we are up-to-date.
>>>
>>>
>>> Juergen
> 
> I was looking at LibreO implementation of OpenClipart in the gallery.
> Its organised by author name so that doesn't seem to me very helpful.
> I have been talking to the OpenClipart.org people and what I had was
> an old archive - the most up to date is over 1 Gig compressed. That is
> far too big to include in a standard distribution download although it
> could be incorporated with a DVD distribution. The snag with an
> on-line only library is that it will raise a barrier to some people.
> So maybe consider a smaller subset of the most popular images in a
> "standardised set" of gallery themes. 50 would be able to cover a wide
> range of the most popular topics. AOO only comes with 4 populated
> graphics themes and 1 sound. Let's say 5 meg of images distributed
> across those themes and maybe then people can add to those themes
> having got a start. They can always add or remove themes as they like.
> We could devise an "up date" themes option that would then provide the
> option to select further images from an on-line source, perhaps
> openclipart.org itself and automatically filter them into the
> appropriate galleries or access them as needed on-line.

we should then start with working on this, shouldn't we. We have for
example some nice new galleries available from Symphony that we can
integrate easily. And the next step is to define how online galleries
could be integrated. For example favorite images can be stored locally
to provide offline usage etc. or you can mark images as favorites to
easy navigate over them even in a big online gallery. Many open
questions how it can be integrated best without breaking the user
experience.

> 
> Next job I'll do is define 50 themes and populate them with some of
> the most popular images to see how that pans out. Even if we don't use
> this with the main download, a distribution project (if we get one
> going) could produce a DVD iso for down load with a set of extras not
> included in the basic distribution download like with the old OOo
> distribution project.

The question is how it is integrated in the office. Do you want to make
it available as one big extension or 1 oxt for every theme? Both is fine
for me but I would keep as extensions and not bundled.

Juergen

> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
> 
> 
>

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.

On 10 September 2012 08:01, Shenfeng Liu <li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2012/9/10 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>
>
>> On 9/9/12 11:36 PM, Ian Lynch wrote:
>> > On 3 September 2012 02:19, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> KG03 - see comments inline
>> >>
>> >> On Aug 31, 2012, at 4:12 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 31 August 2012 02:20, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>> KG02 -see comments inline.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Friday, August 31, 2012 <x-apple-data-detectors://45>, Ian Lynch
>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On 30 August 2012 09:57, Kevin Grignon <kevingrignon.oo@gmail.com
>> <javascript:;>>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>> KG01 - see comments inline.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Aug 30, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com
>> <javascript:;>>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could
>> use
>> >>>>>>> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> KG01 - This adds a lot of value. Ideally we could aim to align the
>> >>>>> information architecture for the categorization. This would allow
>> users to
>> >>>>> leverage the existing knowledge when browse in each library.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Any thoughts about
>> >>>>>>> the best way to implement making the categorised library available
>> to
>> >>>>>>> the community?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> KG01 - it would be great to explore ways to make the open clip art
>> more
>> >>>>> accessible/discoverable within AoO clipart view. Some social
>> integration
>> >>>>> could enable pulling clipart into editors, or pushing an image from
>> an
>> >>>>> editor to the open library.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> While we could create a plug-in, it would be a better unified ux if
>> we
>> >>>>> integrate open clip art and local clipart in one UI.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> At present I'm just going through all the folders from
>> OpenClipart.org
>> >>>>> and putting them into arbitrary folders labelled Animals, People,
>> >>>>> Transport, Food etc. This is because each contributor simply puts
>> >>>>> often unconnected files in a folder so images on OpenClipart.org are
>> >>>>> grouped by author not type (unless I'm missiong something :-) ).
>> While
>> >>>>> there are some aggregations and an on-line indexing system on the
>> >>>>> OpenClipart.org site I haven't found it particularly easy to find
>> >>>>> things. It seems easier to me to have a folder called eg Animals
>>  with
>> >>>>> sub folders for birds, insects, mammals, perhaps with subdivisions of
>> >>>>> cartoon and realistic in each. There are png and svg versions of each
>> >>>>> image. Ideally we'll get import of svg to AOO so that these can be
>> >>>>> edited or resaved in odg or odg will develop to be fully svg
>> compliant
>> >>>>> but I guess that is further down the development road. Once we have
>> >>>>> the categories established they could be embedded in the AOO gallery
>> >>>>> system and anyone wanting to could add to the library to complement
>> >>>>> missing items. Probably helpful for the OpenClipArt project too.
>> There
>> >>>>> really are masses of images to sort through but a lot of duplicates -
>> >>>>> millions of pencils and pens :-) This is why a visual search of a
>> >>>>> folder called pens is probably going to be more successful than
>> trying
>> >>>>> to search for key words.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> KG02 - yes, it would be great to clean this up
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> So at the moment I propose to plough on sorting the images and
>> >>>>> hopefully when they are done someone (perhaps you kevin :-) ) Who
>> >>>>> knows more about how the UX can work with the imagescan help make it
>> >>>>> easy to integrate into the gallery.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> KG02 - This is an interesting consideration.  When we think about
>> social,
>> >>>> we need to apply the social integration to the context of office
>> >>>> productivity.  I feel that social clip art is a great example of
>> future
>> >>>> capabilities.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> KG02 - I will include this scenario in the social design explorations.
>> >>>
>> >>> Once I have finished first iteration of sorting I'll send you the
>> >>> details so you can see what we have.
>> >>>
>> >> KG03 - Ian, great job. Ya, reach out to me when your further along. In
>> the interim, I'll capture a clipart social scenario.
>> >
>> > I have put the sorted clip art in a zip file in my public drop box folder
>> >
>> > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1115462/casource.zip
>> >
>> > Snag is it is 360 meg! So not sure what is the best approach for
>> > dealing with it. Could probably do with further sorting but at least
>> > there is a good start so anyone could refine it to their particular
>> > needs much more quickly than starting from scratch.
>>
>> I think we probably don't want bundle it with AOO directly. I can think
>> of an extended gallery implementation where it is possible to hook
>> online galleries as well.
>>
>
> +1 (for Clipart as well as Template). AOO should provide a kind of
> capability (with extensions) to easily search or browse the online
> resources. It is another perspective of Cloud/Social Integration value.
>
> - Simon
>
>
>>
>> Ok in case of OpenClipart it raises the question how it should be
>> organized/presented to our users. But allowing access to the online
>> resources will guarantee that we are up-to-date.
>>
>>
>> Juergen

I was looking at LibreO implementation of OpenClipart in the gallery.
Its organised by author name so that doesn't seem to me very helpful.
I have been talking to the OpenClipart.org people and what I had was
an old archive - the most up to date is over 1 Gig compressed. That is
far too big to include in a standard distribution download although it
could be incorporated with a DVD distribution. The snag with an
on-line only library is that it will raise a barrier to some people.
So maybe consider a smaller subset of the most popular images in a
"standardised set" of gallery themes. 50 would be able to cover a wide
range of the most popular topics. AOO only comes with 4 populated
graphics themes and 1 sound. Let's say 5 meg of images distributed
across those themes and maybe then people can add to those themes
having got a start. They can always add or remove themes as they like.
We could devise an "up date" themes option that would then provide the
option to select further images from an on-line source, perhaps
openclipart.org itself and automatically filter them into the
appropriate galleries or access them as needed on-line.

Next job I'll do is define 50 themes and populate them with some of
the most popular images to see how that pans out. Even if we don't use
this with the main download, a distribution project (if we get one
going) could produce a DVD iso for down load with a set of extras not
included in the basic distribution download like with the old OOo
distribution project.

>>
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>>



-- 
Ian

Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)

www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.

On 10 September 2012 15:12, Shenfeng Liu <li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2012/9/10 Joost Andrae <Jo...@gmx.de>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> just to shorten this thread: There is already a possibility to add clipart
>> to AOO by using the extension mechanism. Just have a look at the extensions
>> page and search for clipart:
>>
>> http://extensions.services.**openoffice.org<http://extensions.services.openoffice.org>
>>
>>
>>  I think we probably don't want bundle it with AOO directly. I can think
>>>> of an extended gallery implementation where it is possible to hook
>>>> online galleries as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>> Bundling clipart unnecessarily enlarges the download. Additionally clipart
>> bundles need to be proof checked against content that might be politically
>> incorrect based on local laws. Just remember that symbols of the german WW2
>> regime are not allowed to be used in Germany. Clipart collections
>> containing flags _must_ include the officially used flags containing no
>> design changes. In Germany eg. it is fined by monetary penalty or by prison
>> sentence of max. 3 years (StGB §90a) if someone denounces the colours, the
>> flag, the emblem or the anthem of Germany. I believe similar laws do exist
>> in other countries as well.
>>
>>
>>> +1 (for Clipart as well as Template). AOO should provide a kind of
>>> capability (with extensions) to easily search or browse the online
>>> resources. It is another perspective of Cloud/Social Integration value.
>>>
>>>
>> Why do you think it is a good idea to integrate cloud services or social
>> media into AOO ? I'm not convinced at all. People should decide themselves
>> which services they want to have added to AOO. And there are already
>> several cloud based service providers that provide extensions for AOO (like
>> teamdrive.com). Using extensions for such service integrations is an
>> appropriate way.
>
>
> Sorry that my post was too short. Let me explain the ideal scenario in my
> mind:
>
> 1. When I installed a clean AOO, I hope to have 10~20 most frequent used
> build-in cliparts in local repository from AOO installation package.

There is already artwork in the gallery so adding a few more is not
likely to have any significant impact on download bandwidth,
especially if the right images are chosen. Ordinary end-users expect
to see it and will be given more confidence by seeing stuff in the
gallery rather than a lot of void.

> 2. But from time to time, I may want to look for more cliparts. So I hope
> to have a button like "Search more cliparts on XXX". (XXX maybe any website
> that provide clipart library, e.g. Open Clipart, Google, Baidu...)

Yes, make it easy for the most inexperienced user. Remember most
people have never even heard of OpenClipArt and most would not know
what to do with an extension.

> 3. I clicked on the button and searched the clipart I want. (Remember
> different site may categorize their cliparts in different way.)

Another good point. Finding this with searches is one thing
transferring them to the gallery is another.

> 4. I insert the clipart I searched out to my document.
> 5. I like the searched out clipart very much and believe I will use it
> frequently. So I stored this clipart to my local repository.
> 6. <Advanced> I get notified for new/hot cliparts.
>
> With the scenario above:
> 1. should be provided by AOO.
> 2, 3 & 6 should be provided by an extension specific to a clipart site that
> I installed later. If I want the capability to search in multiple sites, I
> may need to install multiple extensions. (Or any better suggestion?)
> 4 & 5, should be from the extension, but AOO should provide interface for
> good user experience (e.g. the capability to add a clipart to local
> repository with a drag&drop).

+1. The main issue is that end users expect clipart with their office
software and they don't expect to have to start configuring stuff to
get it.
-- 
Ian

Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)

www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Joost Andrae <Jo...@gmx.de>.

Hi Simon,

>
> Sorry that my post was too short. Let me explain the ideal scenario in my
> mind:
>
> 1. When I installed a clean AOO, I hope to have 10~20 most frequent used
> build-in cliparts in local repository from AOO installation package.

+1 like page decoration elements (lines, edges, etc.)

> 2. But from time to time, I may want to look for more cliparts. So I hope
> to have a button like "Search more cliparts on XXX". (XXX maybe any website
> that provide clipart library, e.g. Open Clipart, Google, Baidu...)

I don't like the idea to integrate a link to external pages as long as 
the link is static and as long as it is not editable. There is already a 
link to the extensions website on the front page of AOO. Using 
extensions as a container for cliparts allows to use the update 
functionality of the extension framework.

> 3. I clicked on the button and searched the clipart I want. (Remember
> different site may categorize their cliparts in different way.)

If we add an "Add Clipart" button to 
http://extensions.openoffice.org/taxonomy/term/169 would surely satisfy 
your demand.

> 4. I insert the clipart I searched out to my document.

Clipart extensions integrate clipart into the Gallery.

> 5. I like the searched out clipart very much and believe I will use it
> frequently. So I stored this clipart to my local repository.
> 6. <Advanced> I get notified for new/hot cliparts.

Ads ?

>
> With the scenario above:
> 1. should be provided by AOO.
> 2, 3 & 6 should be provided by an extension specific to a clipart site that
> I installed later. If I want the capability to search in multiple sites, I
> may need to install multiple extensions. (Or any better suggestion?)
> 4 & 5, should be from the extension, but AOO should provide interface for
> good user experience (e.g. the capability to add a clipart to local
> repository with a drag&drop).
>

You can add any graphic to the Gallery via drag&drop but I saw that the 
drag&drop handler includes eg. SVG files from a browser as bmp to the 
gallery. I think someone needs to improve this to have the drag&drop 
handler to carry the original drawing format.

Kind regards, Joost

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Shenfeng Liu <li...@gmail.com>.

2012/9/10 Joost Andrae <Jo...@gmx.de>

> Hi,
>
> just to shorten this thread: There is already a possibility to add clipart
> to AOO by using the extension mechanism. Just have a look at the extensions
> page and search for clipart:
>
> http://extensions.services.**openoffice.org<http://extensions.services.openoffice.org>
>
>
>  I think we probably don't want bundle it with AOO directly. I can think
>>> of an extended gallery implementation where it is possible to hook
>>> online galleries as well.
>>>
>>>
> Bundling clipart unnecessarily enlarges the download. Additionally clipart
> bundles need to be proof checked against content that might be politically
> incorrect based on local laws. Just remember that symbols of the german WW2
> regime are not allowed to be used in Germany. Clipart collections
> containing flags _must_ include the officially used flags containing no
> design changes. In Germany eg. it is fined by monetary penalty or by prison
> sentence of max. 3 years (StGB §90a) if someone denounces the colours, the
> flag, the emblem or the anthem of Germany. I believe similar laws do exist
> in other countries as well.
>
>
>
>> +1 (for Clipart as well as Template). AOO should provide a kind of
>> capability (with extensions) to easily search or browse the online
>> resources. It is another perspective of Cloud/Social Integration value.
>>
>>
> Why do you think it is a good idea to integrate cloud services or social
> media into AOO ? I'm not convinced at all. People should decide themselves
> which services they want to have added to AOO. And there are already
> several cloud based service providers that provide extensions for AOO (like
> teamdrive.com). Using extensions for such service integrations is an
> appropriate way.


Sorry that my post was too short. Let me explain the ideal scenario in my
mind:

1. When I installed a clean AOO, I hope to have 10~20 most frequent used
build-in cliparts in local repository from AOO installation package.
2. But from time to time, I may want to look for more cliparts. So I hope
to have a button like "Search more cliparts on XXX". (XXX maybe any website
that provide clipart library, e.g. Open Clipart, Google, Baidu...)
3. I clicked on the button and searched the clipart I want. (Remember
different site may categorize their cliparts in different way.)
4. I insert the clipart I searched out to my document.
5. I like the searched out clipart very much and believe I will use it
frequently. So I stored this clipart to my local repository.
6. <Advanced> I get notified for new/hot cliparts.

With the scenario above:
1. should be provided by AOO.
2, 3 & 6 should be provided by an extension specific to a clipart site that
I installed later. If I want the capability to search in multiple sites, I
may need to install multiple extensions. (Or any better suggestion?)
4 & 5, should be from the extension, but AOO should provide interface for
good user experience (e.g. the capability to add a clipart to local
repository with a drag&drop).

- Simon


>
>
>  - Simon
>>
>>
>>
>>> Ok in case of OpenClipart it raises the question how it should be
>>> organized/presented to our users. But allowing access to the online
>>> resources will guarantee that we are up-to-date.
>>>
>>
> The extension framework should be able to guarantee that an extension is
> up-to-date, you know...
>
>
> Kind regards, Joost
>

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Joost Andrae <Jo...@gmx.de>.

Hi,

just to shorten this thread: There is already a possibility to add 
clipart to AOO by using the extension mechanism. Just have a look at the 
extensions page and search for clipart:

http://extensions.services.openoffice.org

>> I think we probably don't want bundle it with AOO directly. I can think
>> of an extended gallery implementation where it is possible to hook
>> online galleries as well.
>>

Bundling clipart unnecessarily enlarges the download. Additionally 
clipart bundles need to be proof checked against content that might be 
politically incorrect based on local laws. Just remember that symbols of 
the german WW2 regime are not allowed to be used in Germany. Clipart 
collections containing flags _must_ include the officially used flags 
containing no design changes. In Germany eg. it is fined by monetary 
penalty or by prison sentence of max. 3 years (StGB §90a) if someone 
denounces the colours, the flag, the emblem or the anthem of Germany. I 
believe similar laws do exist in other countries as well.

>
> +1 (for Clipart as well as Template). AOO should provide a kind of
> capability (with extensions) to easily search or browse the online
> resources. It is another perspective of Cloud/Social Integration value.
>

Why do you think it is a good idea to integrate cloud services or social 
media into AOO ? I'm not convinced at all. People should decide 
themselves which services they want to have added to AOO. And there are 
already several cloud based service providers that provide extensions 
for AOO (like teamdrive.com). Using extensions for such service 
integrations is an appropriate way.

> - Simon
>
>
>>
>> Ok in case of OpenClipart it raises the question how it should be
>> organized/presented to our users. But allowing access to the online
>> resources will guarantee that we are up-to-date.

The extension framework should be able to guarantee that an extension is 
up-to-date, you know...


Kind regards, Joost

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Shenfeng Liu <li...@gmail.com>.

2012/9/10 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>

> On 9/9/12 11:36 PM, Ian Lynch wrote:
> > On 3 September 2012 02:19, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> KG03 - see comments inline
> >>
> >> On Aug 31, 2012, at 4:12 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 31 August 2012 02:20, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> KG02 -see comments inline.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Friday, August 31, 2012 <x-apple-data-detectors://45>, Ian Lynch
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 30 August 2012 09:57, Kevin Grignon <kevingrignon.oo@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> KG01 - see comments inline.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Aug 30, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could
> use
> >>>>>>> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> KG01 - This adds a lot of value. Ideally we could aim to align the
> >>>>> information architecture for the categorization. This would allow
> users to
> >>>>> leverage the existing knowledge when browse in each library.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Any thoughts about
> >>>>>>> the best way to implement making the categorised library available
> to
> >>>>>>> the community?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> KG01 - it would be great to explore ways to make the open clip art
> more
> >>>>> accessible/discoverable within AoO clipart view. Some social
> integration
> >>>>> could enable pulling clipart into editors, or pushing an image from
> an
> >>>>> editor to the open library.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> While we could create a plug-in, it would be a better unified ux if
> we
> >>>>> integrate open clip art and local clipart in one UI.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At present I'm just going through all the folders from
> OpenClipart.org
> >>>>> and putting them into arbitrary folders labelled Animals, People,
> >>>>> Transport, Food etc. This is because each contributor simply puts
> >>>>> often unconnected files in a folder so images on OpenClipart.org are
> >>>>> grouped by author not type (unless I'm missiong something :-) ).
> While
> >>>>> there are some aggregations and an on-line indexing system on the
> >>>>> OpenClipart.org site I haven't found it particularly easy to find
> >>>>> things. It seems easier to me to have a folder called eg Animals
>  with
> >>>>> sub folders for birds, insects, mammals, perhaps with subdivisions of
> >>>>> cartoon and realistic in each. There are png and svg versions of each
> >>>>> image. Ideally we'll get import of svg to AOO so that these can be
> >>>>> edited or resaved in odg or odg will develop to be fully svg
> compliant
> >>>>> but I guess that is further down the development road. Once we have
> >>>>> the categories established they could be embedded in the AOO gallery
> >>>>> system and anyone wanting to could add to the library to complement
> >>>>> missing items. Probably helpful for the OpenClipArt project too.
> There
> >>>>> really are masses of images to sort through but a lot of duplicates -
> >>>>> millions of pencils and pens :-) This is why a visual search of a
> >>>>> folder called pens is probably going to be more successful than
> trying
> >>>>> to search for key words.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> KG02 - yes, it would be great to clean this up
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So at the moment I propose to plough on sorting the images and
> >>>>> hopefully when they are done someone (perhaps you kevin :-) ) Who
> >>>>> knows more about how the UX can work with the imagescan help make it
> >>>>> easy to integrate into the gallery.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> KG02 - This is an interesting consideration.  When we think about
> social,
> >>>> we need to apply the social integration to the context of office
> >>>> productivity.  I feel that social clip art is a great example of
> future
> >>>> capabilities.
> >>>>
> >>>> KG02 - I will include this scenario in the social design explorations.
> >>>
> >>> Once I have finished first iteration of sorting I'll send you the
> >>> details so you can see what we have.
> >>>
> >> KG03 - Ian, great job. Ya, reach out to me when your further along. In
> the interim, I'll capture a clipart social scenario.
> >
> > I have put the sorted clip art in a zip file in my public drop box folder
> >
> > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1115462/casource.zip
> >
> > Snag is it is 360 meg! So not sure what is the best approach for
> > dealing with it. Could probably do with further sorting but at least
> > there is a good start so anyone could refine it to their particular
> > needs much more quickly than starting from scratch.
>
> I think we probably don't want bundle it with AOO directly. I can think
> of an extended gallery implementation where it is possible to hook
> online galleries as well.
>

+1 (for Clipart as well as Template). AOO should provide a kind of
capability (with extensions) to easily search or browse the online
resources. It is another perspective of Cloud/Social Integration value.

- Simon


>
> Ok in case of OpenClipart it raises the question how it should be
> organized/presented to our users. But allowing access to the online
> resources will guarantee that we are up-to-date.
>
>
> Juergen
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
>

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.

On 9/9/12 11:36 PM, Ian Lynch wrote:
> On 3 September 2012 02:19, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> KG03 - see comments inline
>>
>> On Aug 31, 2012, at 4:12 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 31 August 2012 02:20, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> KG02 -see comments inline.
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, August 31, 2012 <x-apple-data-detectors://45>, Ian Lynch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 30 August 2012 09:57, Kevin Grignon <kevingrignon.oo@gmail.com<javascript:;>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> KG01 - see comments inline.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 30, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com<javascript:;>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could use
>>>>>>> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> KG01 - This adds a lot of value. Ideally we could aim to align the
>>>>> information architecture for the categorization. This would allow users to
>>>>> leverage the existing knowledge when browse in each library.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any thoughts about
>>>>>>> the best way to implement making the categorised library available to
>>>>>>> the community?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> KG01 - it would be great to explore ways to make the open clip art more
>>>>> accessible/discoverable within AoO clipart view. Some social integration
>>>>> could enable pulling clipart into editors, or pushing an image from an
>>>>> editor to the open library.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While we could create a plug-in, it would be a better unified ux if we
>>>>> integrate open clip art and local clipart in one UI.
>>>>>
>>>>> At present I'm just going through all the folders from OpenClipart.org
>>>>> and putting them into arbitrary folders labelled Animals, People,
>>>>> Transport, Food etc. This is because each contributor simply puts
>>>>> often unconnected files in a folder so images on OpenClipart.org are
>>>>> grouped by author not type (unless I'm missiong something :-) ). While
>>>>> there are some aggregations and an on-line indexing system on the
>>>>> OpenClipart.org site I haven't found it particularly easy to find
>>>>> things. It seems easier to me to have a folder called eg Animals  with
>>>>> sub folders for birds, insects, mammals, perhaps with subdivisions of
>>>>> cartoon and realistic in each. There are png and svg versions of each
>>>>> image. Ideally we'll get import of svg to AOO so that these can be
>>>>> edited or resaved in odg or odg will develop to be fully svg compliant
>>>>> but I guess that is further down the development road. Once we have
>>>>> the categories established they could be embedded in the AOO gallery
>>>>> system and anyone wanting to could add to the library to complement
>>>>> missing items. Probably helpful for the OpenClipArt project too. There
>>>>> really are masses of images to sort through but a lot of duplicates -
>>>>> millions of pencils and pens :-) This is why a visual search of a
>>>>> folder called pens is probably going to be more successful than trying
>>>>> to search for key words.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KG02 - yes, it would be great to clean this up
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So at the moment I propose to plough on sorting the images and
>>>>> hopefully when they are done someone (perhaps you kevin :-) ) Who
>>>>> knows more about how the UX can work with the imagescan help make it
>>>>> easy to integrate into the gallery.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KG02 - This is an interesting consideration.  When we think about social,
>>>> we need to apply the social integration to the context of office
>>>> productivity.  I feel that social clip art is a great example of future
>>>> capabilities.
>>>>
>>>> KG02 - I will include this scenario in the social design explorations.
>>>
>>> Once I have finished first iteration of sorting I'll send you the
>>> details so you can see what we have.
>>>
>> KG03 - Ian, great job. Ya, reach out to me when your further along. In the interim, I'll capture a clipart social scenario.
> 
> I have put the sorted clip art in a zip file in my public drop box folder
> 
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1115462/casource.zip
> 
> Snag is it is 360 meg! So not sure what is the best approach for
> dealing with it. Could probably do with further sorting but at least
> there is a good start so anyone could refine it to their particular
> needs much more quickly than starting from scratch.

I think we probably don't want bundle it with AOO directly. I can think
of an extended gallery implementation where it is possible to hook
online galleries as well.

Ok in case of OpenClipart it raises the question how it should be
organized/presented to our users. But allowing access to the online
resources will guarantee that we are up-to-date.


Juergen





>

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.

On 3 September 2012 02:19, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> KG03 - see comments inline
>
> On Aug 31, 2012, at 4:12 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 31 August 2012 02:20, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> KG02 -see comments inline.
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 31, 2012 <x-apple-data-detectors://45>, Ian Lynch wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 30 August 2012 09:57, Kevin Grignon <kevingrignon.oo@gmail.com<javascript:;>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> KG01 - see comments inline.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 30, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com<javascript:;>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could use
>>>>>> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO.
>>>>>
>>>>> KG01 - This adds a lot of value. Ideally we could aim to align the
>>>> information architecture for the categorization. This would allow users to
>>>> leverage the existing knowledge when browse in each library.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Any thoughts about
>>>>>> the best way to implement making the categorised library available to
>>>>>> the community?
>>>>>
>>>>> KG01 - it would be great to explore ways to make the open clip art more
>>>> accessible/discoverable within AoO clipart view. Some social integration
>>>> could enable pulling clipart into editors, or pushing an image from an
>>>> editor to the open library.
>>>>>
>>>>> While we could create a plug-in, it would be a better unified ux if we
>>>> integrate open clip art and local clipart in one UI.
>>>>
>>>> At present I'm just going through all the folders from OpenClipart.org
>>>> and putting them into arbitrary folders labelled Animals, People,
>>>> Transport, Food etc. This is because each contributor simply puts
>>>> often unconnected files in a folder so images on OpenClipart.org are
>>>> grouped by author not type (unless I'm missiong something :-) ). While
>>>> there are some aggregations and an on-line indexing system on the
>>>> OpenClipart.org site I haven't found it particularly easy to find
>>>> things. It seems easier to me to have a folder called eg Animals  with
>>>> sub folders for birds, insects, mammals, perhaps with subdivisions of
>>>> cartoon and realistic in each. There are png and svg versions of each
>>>> image. Ideally we'll get import of svg to AOO so that these can be
>>>> edited or resaved in odg or odg will develop to be fully svg compliant
>>>> but I guess that is further down the development road. Once we have
>>>> the categories established they could be embedded in the AOO gallery
>>>> system and anyone wanting to could add to the library to complement
>>>> missing items. Probably helpful for the OpenClipArt project too. There
>>>> really are masses of images to sort through but a lot of duplicates -
>>>> millions of pencils and pens :-) This is why a visual search of a
>>>> folder called pens is probably going to be more successful than trying
>>>> to search for key words.
>>>
>>>
>>> KG02 - yes, it would be great to clean this up
>>>
>>>>
>>>> So at the moment I propose to plough on sorting the images and
>>>> hopefully when they are done someone (perhaps you kevin :-) ) Who
>>>> knows more about how the UX can work with the imagescan help make it
>>>> easy to integrate into the gallery.
>>>
>>>
>>> KG02 - This is an interesting consideration.  When we think about social,
>>> we need to apply the social integration to the context of office
>>> productivity.  I feel that social clip art is a great example of future
>>> capabilities.
>>>
>>> KG02 - I will include this scenario in the social design explorations.
>>
>> Once I have finished first iteration of sorting I'll send you the
>> details so you can see what we have.
>>
> KG03 - Ian, great job. Ya, reach out to me when your further along. In the interim, I'll capture a clipart social scenario.

I have put the sorted clip art in a zip file in my public drop box folder

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1115462/casource.zip

Snag is it is 360 meg! So not sure what is the best approach for
dealing with it. Could probably do with further sorting but at least
there is a good start so anyone could refine it to their particular
needs much more quickly than starting from scratch.

-- 
Ian

Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)

www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.

KG03 - see comments inline

On Aug 31, 2012, at 4:12 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 31 August 2012 02:20, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> KG02 -see comments inline.
>> 
>> On Friday, August 31, 2012 <x-apple-data-detectors://45>, Ian Lynch wrote:
>> 
>>> On 30 August 2012 09:57, Kevin Grignon <kevingrignon.oo@gmail.com<javascript:;>>
>>> wrote:
>>>> KG01 - see comments inline.
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 30, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com<javascript:;>>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could use
>>>>> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO.
>>>> 
>>>> KG01 - This adds a lot of value. Ideally we could aim to align the
>>> information architecture for the categorization. This would allow users to
>>> leverage the existing knowledge when browse in each library.
>>>> 
>>>>> Any thoughts about
>>>>> the best way to implement making the categorised library available to
>>>>> the community?
>>>> 
>>>> KG01 - it would be great to explore ways to make the open clip art more
>>> accessible/discoverable within AoO clipart view. Some social integration
>>> could enable pulling clipart into editors, or pushing an image from an
>>> editor to the open library.
>>>> 
>>>> While we could create a plug-in, it would be a better unified ux if we
>>> integrate open clip art and local clipart in one UI.
>>> 
>>> At present I'm just going through all the folders from OpenClipart.org
>>> and putting them into arbitrary folders labelled Animals, People,
>>> Transport, Food etc. This is because each contributor simply puts
>>> often unconnected files in a folder so images on OpenClipart.org are
>>> grouped by author not type (unless I'm missiong something :-) ). While
>>> there are some aggregations and an on-line indexing system on the
>>> OpenClipart.org site I haven't found it particularly easy to find
>>> things. It seems easier to me to have a folder called eg Animals  with
>>> sub folders for birds, insects, mammals, perhaps with subdivisions of
>>> cartoon and realistic in each. There are png and svg versions of each
>>> image. Ideally we'll get import of svg to AOO so that these can be
>>> edited or resaved in odg or odg will develop to be fully svg compliant
>>> but I guess that is further down the development road. Once we have
>>> the categories established they could be embedded in the AOO gallery
>>> system and anyone wanting to could add to the library to complement
>>> missing items. Probably helpful for the OpenClipArt project too. There
>>> really are masses of images to sort through but a lot of duplicates -
>>> millions of pencils and pens :-) This is why a visual search of a
>>> folder called pens is probably going to be more successful than trying
>>> to search for key words.
>> 
>> 
>> KG02 - yes, it would be great to clean this up
>> 
>>> 
>>> So at the moment I propose to plough on sorting the images and
>>> hopefully when they are done someone (perhaps you kevin :-) ) Who
>>> knows more about how the UX can work with the imagescan help make it
>>> easy to integrate into the gallery.
>> 
>> 
>> KG02 - This is an interesting consideration.  When we think about social,
>> we need to apply the social integration to the context of office
>> productivity.  I feel that social clip art is a great example of future
>> capabilities.
>> 
>> KG02 - I will include this scenario in the social design explorations.
> 
> Once I have finished first iteration of sorting I'll send you the
> details so you can see what we have.
> 
KG03 - Ian, great job. Ya, reach out to me when your further along. In the interim, I'll capture a clipart social scenario. 

> -- 
> Ian
> 
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
> 
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
> 
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> Wales.

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.

On 31 August 2012 02:20, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> KG02 -see comments inline.
>
> On Friday, August 31, 2012 <x-apple-data-detectors://45>, Ian Lynch wrote:
>
>> On 30 August 2012 09:57, Kevin Grignon <kevingrignon.oo@gmail.com<javascript:;>>
>> wrote:
>> > KG01 - see comments inline.
>> >
>> > On Aug 30, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com<javascript:;>>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could use
>> >> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO.
>> >
>> > KG01 - This adds a lot of value. Ideally we could aim to align the
>> information architecture for the categorization. This would allow users to
>> leverage the existing knowledge when browse in each library.
>> >
>> >> Any thoughts about
>> >> the best way to implement making the categorised library available to
>> >> the community?
>> >
>> > KG01 - it would be great to explore ways to make the open clip art more
>> accessible/discoverable within AoO clipart view. Some social integration
>> could enable pulling clipart into editors, or pushing an image from an
>> editor to the open library.
>> >
>> > While we could create a plug-in, it would be a better unified ux if we
>> integrate open clip art and local clipart in one UI.
>>
>> At present I'm just going through all the folders from OpenClipart.org
>> and putting them into arbitrary folders labelled Animals, People,
>> Transport, Food etc. This is because each contributor simply puts
>> often unconnected files in a folder so images on OpenClipart.org are
>> grouped by author not type (unless I'm missiong something :-) ). While
>> there are some aggregations and an on-line indexing system on the
>> OpenClipart.org site I haven't found it particularly easy to find
>> things. It seems easier to me to have a folder called eg Animals  with
>> sub folders for birds, insects, mammals, perhaps with subdivisions of
>> cartoon and realistic in each. There are png and svg versions of each
>> image. Ideally we'll get import of svg to AOO so that these can be
>> edited or resaved in odg or odg will develop to be fully svg compliant
>> but I guess that is further down the development road. Once we have
>> the categories established they could be embedded in the AOO gallery
>> system and anyone wanting to could add to the library to complement
>> missing items. Probably helpful for the OpenClipArt project too. There
>> really are masses of images to sort through but a lot of duplicates -
>> millions of pencils and pens :-) This is why a visual search of a
>> folder called pens is probably going to be more successful than trying
>> to search for key words.
>
>
> KG02 - yes, it would be great to clean this up
>
>>
>> So at the moment I propose to plough on sorting the images and
>> hopefully when they are done someone (perhaps you kevin :-) ) Who
>> knows more about how the UX can work with the imagescan help make it
>> easy to integrate into the gallery.
>
>
> KG02 - This is an interesting consideration.  When we think about social,
> we need to apply the social integration to the context of office
> productivity.  I feel that social clip art is a great example of future
> capabilities.
>
> KG02 - I will include this scenario in the social design explorations.

Once I have finished first iteration of sorting I'll send you the
details so you can see what we have.

-- 
Ian

Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)

www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.

KG02 -see comments inline.

On Friday, August 31, 2012 <x-apple-data-detectors://45>, Ian Lynch wrote:

> On 30 August 2012 09:57, Kevin Grignon <kevingrignon.oo@gmail.com<javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> > KG01 - see comments inline.
> >
> > On Aug 30, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com<javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could use
> >> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO.
> >
> > KG01 - This adds a lot of value. Ideally we could aim to align the
> information architecture for the categorization. This would allow users to
> leverage the existing knowledge when browse in each library.
> >
> >> Any thoughts about
> >> the best way to implement making the categorised library available to
> >> the community?
> >
> > KG01 - it would be great to explore ways to make the open clip art more
> accessible/discoverable within AoO clipart view. Some social integration
> could enable pulling clipart into editors, or pushing an image from an
> editor to the open library.
> >
> > While we could create a plug-in, it would be a better unified ux if we
> integrate open clip art and local clipart in one UI.
>
> At present I'm just going through all the folders from OpenClipart.org
> and putting them into arbitrary folders labelled Animals, People,
> Transport, Food etc. This is because each contributor simply puts
> often unconnected files in a folder so images on OpenClipart.org are
> grouped by author not type (unless I'm missiong something :-) ). While
> there are some aggregations and an on-line indexing system on the
> OpenClipart.org site I haven't found it particularly easy to find
> things. It seems easier to me to have a folder called eg Animals  with
> sub folders for birds, insects, mammals, perhaps with subdivisions of
> cartoon and realistic in each. There are png and svg versions of each
> image. Ideally we'll get import of svg to AOO so that these can be
> edited or resaved in odg or odg will develop to be fully svg compliant
> but I guess that is further down the development road. Once we have
> the categories established they could be embedded in the AOO gallery
> system and anyone wanting to could add to the library to complement
> missing items. Probably helpful for the OpenClipArt project too. There
> really are masses of images to sort through but a lot of duplicates -
> millions of pencils and pens :-) This is why a visual search of a
> folder called pens is probably going to be more successful than trying
> to search for key words.


KG02 - yes, it would be great to clean this up

>
> So at the moment I propose to plough on sorting the images and
> hopefully when they are done someone (perhaps you kevin :-) ) Who
> knows more about how the UX can work with the imagescan help make it
> easy to integrate into the gallery.


KG02 - This is an interesting consideration.  When we think about social,
we need to apply the social integration to the context of office
productivity.  I feel that social clip art is a great example of future
capabilities.

KG02 - I will include this scenario in the social design explorations.

>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ian
> >>
> >> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
> >>
> >> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 <+44%20(0)1827%20305940>
> >>
> >> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road<x-apple-data-detectors://55>,
> Tamworth,
> >> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> >> Wales.
>
>
>
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 <+44%20(0)1827%20305940>
>
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,<x-apple-data-detectors://59>
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ <x-apple-data-detectors://59>. Reg No: 05560797,
> Registered in England and
> Wales.
>

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.

On 30 August 2012 09:57, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> KG01 - see comments inline.
>
> On Aug 30, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could use
>> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO.
>
> KG01 - This adds a lot of value. Ideally we could aim to align the information architecture for the categorization. This would allow users to leverage the existing knowledge when browse in each library.
>
>> Any thoughts about
>> the best way to implement making the categorised library available to
>> the community?
>
> KG01 - it would be great to explore ways to make the open clip art more accessible/discoverable within AoO clipart view. Some social integration could enable pulling clipart into editors, or pushing an image from an editor to the open library.
>
> While we could create a plug-in, it would be a better unified ux if we integrate open clip art and local clipart in one UI.

At present I'm just going through all the folders from OpenClipart.org
and putting them into arbitrary folders labelled Animals, People,
Transport, Food etc. This is because each contributor simply puts
often unconnected files in a folder so images on OpenClipart.org are
grouped by author not type (unless I'm missiong something :-) ). While
there are some aggregations and an on-line indexing system on the
OpenClipart.org site I haven't found it particularly easy to find
things. It seems easier to me to have a folder called eg Animals  with
sub folders for birds, insects, mammals, perhaps with subdivisions of
cartoon and realistic in each. There are png and svg versions of each
image. Ideally we'll get import of svg to AOO so that these can be
edited or resaved in odg or odg will develop to be fully svg compliant
but I guess that is further down the development road. Once we have
the categories established they could be embedded in the AOO gallery
system and anyone wanting to could add to the library to complement
missing items. Probably helpful for the OpenClipArt project too. There
really are masses of images to sort through but a lot of duplicates -
millions of pencils and pens :-) This is why a visual search of a
folder called pens is probably going to be more successful than trying
to search for key words.

So at the moment I propose to plough on sorting the images and
hopefully when they are done someone (perhaps you kevin :-) ) Who
knows more about how the UX can work with the imagescan help make it
easy to integrate into the gallery.

>>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>>
>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>
>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>> Wales.

-- 
Ian

Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)

www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.

KG01 - see comments inline. 

On Aug 30, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could use
> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO.

KG01 - This adds a lot of value. Ideally we could aim to align the information architecture for the categorization. This would allow users to leverage the existing knowledge when browse in each library. 

> Any thoughts about
> the best way to implement making the categorised library available to
> the community?

KG01 - it would be great to explore ways to make the open clip art more accessible/discoverable within AoO clipart view. Some social integration could enable pulling clipart into editors, or pushing an image from an editor to the open library. 

While we could create a plug-in, it would be a better unified ux if we integrate open clip art and local clipart in one UI. 

> 
> -- 
> Ian
> 
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
> 
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
> 
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> Wales.

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Armin Le Grand <Ar...@me.com>.

On 19.09.2012 17:19, Ian Lynch wrote:
> On 17 September 2012 22:16, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:51 AM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could use
>>> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO. Any thoughts about
>>> the best way to implement making the categorised library available to
>>> the community?
>>>
>>
>> Taxonomies are limiting, especially if a given clipart can live in
>> only one place.  Tagging is more flexible.  And searching is even more
>> so.
>>
>> I noticed they have a REST API for searching OCAL, which is based on
>> text queries, e.g.:
>>
>> http://openclipart.org/api/search/?query=trombone&page=1
>>
>> So one option might be to have a smaller, curated set of
>> top-quality/most-commonly-used clipart pre-included in the install,
>> but then also have an in-product interface for searching the complete
>> online collection.  Could also allow searching of other public domain
>> image sources, including Flickr Common, Wikipedia, etc.
>
> That is exactly what I had in mind. For none technical users, seeing
> some images in the gallery on installation provides confidence apart
> from anything else. Few casual users will know how to use the search
> facilities on OCAL and many would not even know what OCAL was. It
> really has to be intuitive and simple for the most limited end users
> :-). The quickest and simplest start is to provide a simple set on
> install. Then look at adding search to the user interface. Snag I'm
> thinking about at the moment is that ideally the curated included set
> would be vectors but most are in .svg not .odg format so we lose the
> editing which is a key reason to have them as vectors.

Indeed we cannot edit SVG directly and it would be hard to achieve this, 
but you can 'Break' SVG objects and work on the resulting SdrObjects. 
These can also be exported again in SVG format, but the roundtrip ist 
stil far away from being good enough to call it an SVG editor (I'm 
thinking about next steps :-))

> We could just
> use png but that's not ideal. Longer term it would be better for AOO
> to support svg fully, but that is a big job.
>
Yes...

Sincerely,
	Armin
--
ALG

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.

On 17 September 2012 22:16, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:51 AM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could use
>> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO. Any thoughts about
>> the best way to implement making the categorised library available to
>> the community?
>>
>
> Taxonomies are limiting, especially if a given clipart can live in
> only one place.  Tagging is more flexible.  And searching is even more
> so.
>
> I noticed they have a REST API for searching OCAL, which is based on
> text queries, e.g.:
>
> http://openclipart.org/api/search/?query=trombone&page=1
>
> So one option might be to have a smaller, curated set of
> top-quality/most-commonly-used clipart pre-included in the install,
> but then also have an in-product interface for searching the complete
> online collection.  Could also allow searching of other public domain
> image sources, including Flickr Common, Wikipedia, etc.

That is exactly what I had in mind. For none technical users, seeing
some images in the gallery on installation provides confidence apart
from anything else. Few casual users will know how to use the search
facilities on OCAL and many would not even know what OCAL was. It
really has to be intuitive and simple for the most limited end users
:-). The quickest and simplest start is to provide a simple set on
install. Then look at adding search to the user interface. Snag I'm
thinking about at the moment is that ideally the curated included set
would be vectors but most are in .svg not .odg format so we lose the
editing which is a key reason to have them as vectors. We could just
use png but that's not ideal. Longer term it would be better for AOO
to support svg fully, but that is a big job.

-- 
Ian

Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)

www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.

Re: Clipart library

Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:51 AM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm organising the Open clipart library into categories. We could use
> this then as a useful resource to complement AOO. Any thoughts about
> the best way to implement making the categorised library available to
> the community?
>

Taxonomies are limiting, especially if a given clipart can live in
only one place.  Tagging is more flexible.  And searching is even more
so.

I noticed they have a REST API for searching OCAL, which is based on
text queries, e.g.:

http://openclipart.org/api/search/?query=trombone&page=1

So one option might be to have a smaller, curated set of
top-quality/most-commonly-used clipart pre-included in the install,
but then also have an in-product interface for searching the complete
online collection.  Could also allow searching of other public domain
image sources, including Flickr Common, Wikipedia, etc.

-Rob

> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> Wales.