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Posted to dev@struts.apache.org by Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com> on 2004/07/28 19:28:37 UTC
Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 30364] - org.apache.struts.validator.DynaValidatorActionForm.validate(DynaValidatorActionForm.java:115)
On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:16:51 -0500, Matt Bathje <mp...@ntsource.com> wrote:
> > ------- Additional Comments From niallp@apache.org 2004-07-28
> 15:57 -------
> > P.S. Rather than raising a *bug* report against Struts could you please
> post
> > problems like this to the user list first.
> >
> > Raising *Bugs* is not the best way to get help - asking questions on the
> user
> > list is.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
>
> This is going to sound bad maybe - but from some peoples perspective, filing
> a bug report IS the best way to get help.
>
> Some questions to the users mailing list go unanswered (even something
> simple like this may get ignored.) When somebody files a (non)bug report
> like this though, it always seems to gets closed out very quickly with an
> answer and a "reprimand" to use the users list. The bug reporter gets
> exactly what they want - a quick answer. They can completley ignore the
> reprimand if they want.
>
> Now maybe this isn't a problem to anybody and it certainly doesn't bother
> me, I just thought I would bring it up based on what I've seen in the few
> months I've been part of the struts community.
>
> Of course, if this does bother people (especially if those people are
> committers) we need a solution. The only one I can think of is to stop
> rewarding the behavior - when somebody posts a "question" to bugzilla, it
> gets shut down quickly, but with no answer, just a pointer to the mailing
> list. (Whoever closed it down can also be sure to watch for the question on
> the user list and answer it so as not to piss people off...)
>
> Again, sorry if I am raising a non-issue, I just thought I would mention it.
>
Matt, there are several "big picture" reasons that questions (as
opposed to bug reports) should be raised on the user mailing list.
* Issue tracking systems do not make it particularly easy to
have a conversation and explore possibilities, particularly
compared to how you can interleave conversational elements
in responses to mailing list messages.
* The audience of people available to answer your question is much
larger than the audience of people who read bug reports.
* The audience of people on the user mailing list probably has more
experience *using* Struts than the developers do; they are much
more likely to have run into something similar and figured out
what to do.
* When an answer is given on the mailing list, it is archived in many
locations that provide powerful searching capabilities. The number
of people who search mailing list archives before asking the same
question again (while not as large as user list subscribers might
prefer :-) is orders of magnitude larger than the number of people who
would ever search the bug tracking system's archives.
If you expect to actually get your questions answered, then, the user
mailing list is the best place. However, if you expect to *always*
get an answer, in a timely manner, then I'm afraid your expectations
are never going to be met (no matter what approach you take for asking
them) -- the people who answer questions (as well as create Struts)
are all volunteers.
>
> Matt Bathje
>
Craig McClanahan
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Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 30364] - org.apache.struts.validator.DynaValidatorActionForm.validate(DynaValidatorActionForm.java:115)
Posted by Robert Michel <bo...@codecore.com>.
Maybe the reprimand should be saved for developers who actually reply to
user questions on a bug report or in this list.
Once a user gets a response from one of these channels, there is a
chance that they'll come back, especially if they don't get an answer on
the user list. And once an answer appears after a reprimand, then the
effectiveness of reprimands is diluted for everybody.
Here's my recommendation: Set these ground rules for responding to user
questions:
* Direct users to a web page with Craig's (polite) words of wisdom on
the topic
* Do not provide any answers
* Provide additional info only if it is of value to the developer community
This saves the developers from having to post a reprimand, which wastes
developers time and, worse yet, alienates potential users.
Robert Michel
Craig McClanahan wrote:
>On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:16:51 -0500, Matt Bathje <mp...@ntsource.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>------- Additional Comments From niallp@apache.org 2004-07-28
>>>
>>>
>>15:57 -------
>>
>>
>>>P.S. Rather than raising a *bug* report against Struts could you please
>>>
>>>
>>post
>>
>>
>>>problems like this to the user list first.
>>>
>>>Raising *Bugs* is not the best way to get help - asking questions on the
>>>
>>>
>>user
>>
>>
>>>list is.
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>This is going to sound bad maybe - but from some peoples perspective, filing
>>a bug report IS the best way to get help.
>>
>>Some questions to the users mailing list go unanswered (even something
>>simple like this may get ignored.) When somebody files a (non)bug report
>>like this though, it always seems to gets closed out very quickly with an
>>answer and a "reprimand" to use the users list. The bug reporter gets
>>exactly what they want - a quick answer. They can completley ignore the
>>reprimand if they want.
>>
>>Now maybe this isn't a problem to anybody and it certainly doesn't bother
>>me, I just thought I would bring it up based on what I've seen in the few
>>months I've been part of the struts community.
>>
>>Of course, if this does bother people (especially if those people are
>>committers) we need a solution. The only one I can think of is to stop
>>rewarding the behavior - when somebody posts a "question" to bugzilla, it
>>gets shut down quickly, but with no answer, just a pointer to the mailing
>>list. (Whoever closed it down can also be sure to watch for the question on
>>the user list and answer it so as not to piss people off...)
>>
>>Again, sorry if I am raising a non-issue, I just thought I would mention it.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Matt, there are several "big picture" reasons that questions (as
>opposed to bug reports) should be raised on the user mailing list.
>
>* Issue tracking systems do not make it particularly easy to
> have a conversation and explore possibilities, particularly
> compared to how you can interleave conversational elements
> in responses to mailing list messages.
>
>* The audience of people available to answer your question is much
> larger than the audience of people who read bug reports.
>
>* The audience of people on the user mailing list probably has more
> experience *using* Struts than the developers do; they are much
> more likely to have run into something similar and figured out
> what to do.
>
>* When an answer is given on the mailing list, it is archived in many
> locations that provide powerful searching capabilities. The number
> of people who search mailing list archives before asking the same
> question again (while not as large as user list subscribers might
> prefer :-) is orders of magnitude larger than the number of people who
> would ever search the bug tracking system's archives.
>
>If you expect to actually get your questions answered, then, the user
>mailing list is the best place. However, if you expect to *always*
>get an answer, in a timely manner, then I'm afraid your expectations
>are never going to be met (no matter what approach you take for asking
>them) -- the people who answer questions (as well as create Struts)
>are all volunteers.
>
>
>
>>Matt Bathje
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>Craig McClanahan
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
>
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Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 30364] - org.apache.struts.validator.DynaValidatorActionForm.validate(DynaValidatorActionForm.java:115)
Posted by Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 03:49:38 +0100, Niall Pemberton
<ni...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I don't see this as a big issue and my intention was more of "polite
> request" rather than "reprimand" - although it may not have come accross
> that way. Seems to me that in a large and (hopefully) expanding community
> there are always going to be new people that don't know the conventions that
> this community operates under. My impression is that once people have been
> asked to use the user list rather than bugzilla they do (and querying
> "INVALID" tickets in bugzilla seems to back this up).
>
> Niall
>
> P.S. I'm -1 on Robert Michel's suggestion to give me a good flogging for
> including an answer when closing the bugzilla ticket :-)
Niall,
You're absolutely corect ... that's why I (politely) ranted at people
who post questions in bug reports instead of at you for answering the
question there. Of course, getting flogged for being too helpful has
gotta mean you are doing *something* right :-).
The friendliness and helpfulness of the Struts community in general is
something I am very proud of, and I brag about it every chance I get.
I've seen way too many open source projects where the developers sneer
at their users.
Craig
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Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 30364] - org.apache.struts.validator.DynaValidatorActionForm.validate(DynaValidatorActionForm.java:115)
Posted by Robert Michel <bo...@codecore.com>.
Ok. Suggestion retracted. I'm a pacifist, so I don't endorse flogging
anybody, especially Niall.
As Craig pointed out, not all open source projects have reached the same
level of cordiality. I was thinking of one such project at the time and
I only wish they could acheive the same level of friendliness as the
Struts project.
Robert Michel
Niall Pemberton wrote:
>I don't see this as a big issue and my intention was more of "polite
>request" rather than "reprimand" - although it may not have come accross
>that way. Seems to me that in a large and (hopefully) expanding community
>there are always going to be new people that don't know the conventions that
>this community operates under. My impression is that once people have been
>asked to use the user list rather than bugzilla they do (and querying
>"INVALID" tickets in bugzilla seems to back this up).
>
>Niall
>
>P.S. I'm -1 on Robert Michel's suggestion to give me a good flogging for
>including an answer when closing the bugzilla ticket :-)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Matt Bathje" <mp...@ntsource.com>
>To: "Struts Developers List" <de...@struts.apache.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 6:50 PM
>Subject: Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 30364] -
>org.apache.struts.validator.DynaValidatorActionForm.validate(DynaValidatorAc
>tionForm.java:115)
>
>
>
>
>>Sorry, I must have been REALLY unclear here - I am not saying I
>>
>>
>expect/want
>
>
>>people (or myself in particular) to ask questions on bugzilla and get a
>>quick answer - just the opposite in fact. I totally understand and agree
>>with all the reasons you mention for asking on the user list, and
>>
>>
>understood
>
>
>>them before bringing this (non?)issue up. I have never myself asked a
>>question on bugzilla that wasn't related to a bug or enhancement, and
>>
>>
>never
>
>
>>plan to!
>>
>>What I am saying is that when people do ask questions on bugzilla, the
>>questions are almost always answered as they are closed out. Also (in
>>general) when somebody answers and closes the "bug", it is within a few
>>hours.
>>
>>Sometimes responses on the user list aren't so quick, or they never come,
>>which can be discouraging.
>>
>>These discouraged people may see bugzilla as a quick way to get what
>>
>>
>should
>
>
>>be a user-list question answered, because the commiters and other people
>>that watch bugzilla tend to answer the questions even if they aren't bugs.
>>
>>Now - like I said, if it doesn't bother anybody that questions routinely
>>
>>
>get
>
>
>>asked and answered in bugzilla then this isn't an issue, and sorry for
>>bringing it up. If people are bothered by it, then I was offering one
>>possible solution.
>>
>>
>>Hopefully I've made myself more clear about this.
>>
>>Matt Bathje
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Craig McClanahan" <cr...@gmail.com>
>>To: "Struts Developers List" <de...@struts.apache.org>
>>Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:28 PM
>>Subject: Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 30364] -
>>
>>
>>
>org.apache.struts.validator.DynaValidatorActionForm.validate(DynaValidatorAc
>
>
>>tionForm.java:115)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:16:51 -0500, Matt Bathje <mp...@ntsource.com>
>>>
>>>
>wrote:
>
>
>>>>>------- Additional Comments From niallp@apache.org 2004-07-28
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>15:57 -------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>P.S. Rather than raising a *bug* report against Struts could you
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>please
>>
>>
>>>>post
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>problems like this to the user list first.
>>>>>
>>>>>Raising *Bugs* is not the best way to get help - asking questions on
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>>user
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>list is.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>This is going to sound bad maybe - but from some peoples perspective,
>>>>
>>>>
>>filing
>>
>>
>>>>a bug report IS the best way to get help.
>>>>
>>>>Some questions to the users mailing list go unanswered (even something
>>>>simple like this may get ignored.) When somebody files a (non)bug
>>>>
>>>>
>report
>
>
>>>>like this though, it always seems to gets closed out very quickly with
>>>>
>>>>
>>an
>>
>>
>>>>answer and a "reprimand" to use the users list. The bug reporter gets
>>>>exactly what they want - a quick answer. They can completley ignore
>>>>
>>>>
>the
>
>
>>>>reprimand if they want.
>>>>
>>>>Now maybe this isn't a problem to anybody and it certainly doesn't
>>>>
>>>>
>>bother
>>
>>
>>>>me, I just thought I would bring it up based on what I've seen in the
>>>>
>>>>
>>few
>>
>>
>>>>months I've been part of the struts community.
>>>>
>>>>Of course, if this does bother people (especially if those people are
>>>>committers) we need a solution. The only one I can think of is to stop
>>>>rewarding the behavior - when somebody posts a "question" to bugzilla,
>>>>
>>>>
>>it
>>
>>
>>>>gets shut down quickly, but with no answer, just a pointer to the
>>>>
>>>>
>>mailing
>>
>>
>>>>list. (Whoever closed it down can also be sure to watch for the
>>>>
>>>>
>question
>
>
>>on
>>
>>
>>>>the user list and answer it so as not to piss people off...)
>>>>
>>>>Again, sorry if I am raising a non-issue, I just thought I would
>>>>
>>>>
>mention
>
>
>>it.
>>
>>
>>>Matt, there are several "big picture" reasons that questions (as
>>>opposed to bug reports) should be raised on the user mailing list.
>>>
>>>* Issue tracking systems do not make it particularly easy to
>>> have a conversation and explore possibilities, particularly
>>> compared to how you can interleave conversational elements
>>> in responses to mailing list messages.
>>>
>>>* The audience of people available to answer your question is much
>>> larger than the audience of people who read bug reports.
>>>
>>>* The audience of people on the user mailing list probably has more
>>> experience *using* Struts than the developers do; they are much
>>> more likely to have run into something similar and figured out
>>> what to do.
>>>
>>>* When an answer is given on the mailing list, it is archived in many
>>> locations that provide powerful searching capabilities. The number
>>> of people who search mailing list archives before asking the same
>>> question again (while not as large as user list subscribers might
>>> prefer :-) is orders of magnitude larger than the number of people who
>>> would ever search the bug tracking system's archives.
>>>
>>>If you expect to actually get your questions answered, then, the user
>>>mailing list is the best place. However, if you expect to *always*
>>>get an answer, in a timely manner, then I'm afraid your expectations
>>>are never going to be met (no matter what approach you take for asking
>>>them) -- the people who answer questions (as well as create Struts)
>>>are all volunteers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Matt Bathje
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Craig McClanahan
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 30364] - org.apache.struts.validator.DynaValidatorActionForm.validate(DynaValidatorActionForm.java:115)
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
I don't see this as a big issue and my intention was more of "polite
request" rather than "reprimand" - although it may not have come accross
that way. Seems to me that in a large and (hopefully) expanding community
there are always going to be new people that don't know the conventions that
this community operates under. My impression is that once people have been
asked to use the user list rather than bugzilla they do (and querying
"INVALID" tickets in bugzilla seems to back this up).
Niall
P.S. I'm -1 on Robert Michel's suggestion to give me a good flogging for
including an answer when closing the bugzilla ticket :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Bathje" <mp...@ntsource.com>
To: "Struts Developers List" <de...@struts.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 30364] -
org.apache.struts.validator.DynaValidatorActionForm.validate(DynaValidatorAc
tionForm.java:115)
> Sorry, I must have been REALLY unclear here - I am not saying I
expect/want
> people (or myself in particular) to ask questions on bugzilla and get a
> quick answer - just the opposite in fact. I totally understand and agree
> with all the reasons you mention for asking on the user list, and
understood
> them before bringing this (non?)issue up. I have never myself asked a
> question on bugzilla that wasn't related to a bug or enhancement, and
never
> plan to!
>
> What I am saying is that when people do ask questions on bugzilla, the
> questions are almost always answered as they are closed out. Also (in
> general) when somebody answers and closes the "bug", it is within a few
> hours.
>
> Sometimes responses on the user list aren't so quick, or they never come,
> which can be discouraging.
>
> These discouraged people may see bugzilla as a quick way to get what
should
> be a user-list question answered, because the commiters and other people
> that watch bugzilla tend to answer the questions even if they aren't bugs.
>
> Now - like I said, if it doesn't bother anybody that questions routinely
get
> asked and answered in bugzilla then this isn't an issue, and sorry for
> bringing it up. If people are bothered by it, then I was offering one
> possible solution.
>
>
> Hopefully I've made myself more clear about this.
>
> Matt Bathje
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craig McClanahan" <cr...@gmail.com>
> To: "Struts Developers List" <de...@struts.apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:28 PM
> Subject: Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 30364] -
>
org.apache.struts.validator.DynaValidatorActionForm.validate(DynaValidatorAc
> tionForm.java:115)
>
>
> > On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:16:51 -0500, Matt Bathje <mp...@ntsource.com>
wrote:
> > > > ------- Additional Comments From niallp@apache.org 2004-07-28
> > > 15:57 -------
> > > > P.S. Rather than raising a *bug* report against Struts could you
> please
> > > post
> > > > problems like this to the user list first.
> > > >
> > > > Raising *Bugs* is not the best way to get help - asking questions on
> the
> > > user
> > > > list is.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > >
> > > This is going to sound bad maybe - but from some peoples perspective,
> filing
> > > a bug report IS the best way to get help.
> > >
> > > Some questions to the users mailing list go unanswered (even something
> > > simple like this may get ignored.) When somebody files a (non)bug
report
> > > like this though, it always seems to gets closed out very quickly with
> an
> > > answer and a "reprimand" to use the users list. The bug reporter gets
> > > exactly what they want - a quick answer. They can completley ignore
the
> > > reprimand if they want.
> > >
> > > Now maybe this isn't a problem to anybody and it certainly doesn't
> bother
> > > me, I just thought I would bring it up based on what I've seen in the
> few
> > > months I've been part of the struts community.
> > >
> > > Of course, if this does bother people (especially if those people are
> > > committers) we need a solution. The only one I can think of is to stop
> > > rewarding the behavior - when somebody posts a "question" to bugzilla,
> it
> > > gets shut down quickly, but with no answer, just a pointer to the
> mailing
> > > list. (Whoever closed it down can also be sure to watch for the
question
> on
> > > the user list and answer it so as not to piss people off...)
> > >
> > > Again, sorry if I am raising a non-issue, I just thought I would
mention
> it.
> > >
> >
> > Matt, there are several "big picture" reasons that questions (as
> > opposed to bug reports) should be raised on the user mailing list.
> >
> > * Issue tracking systems do not make it particularly easy to
> > have a conversation and explore possibilities, particularly
> > compared to how you can interleave conversational elements
> > in responses to mailing list messages.
> >
> > * The audience of people available to answer your question is much
> > larger than the audience of people who read bug reports.
> >
> > * The audience of people on the user mailing list probably has more
> > experience *using* Struts than the developers do; they are much
> > more likely to have run into something similar and figured out
> > what to do.
> >
> > * When an answer is given on the mailing list, it is archived in many
> > locations that provide powerful searching capabilities. The number
> > of people who search mailing list archives before asking the same
> > question again (while not as large as user list subscribers might
> > prefer :-) is orders of magnitude larger than the number of people who
> > would ever search the bug tracking system's archives.
> >
> > If you expect to actually get your questions answered, then, the user
> > mailing list is the best place. However, if you expect to *always*
> > get an answer, in a timely manner, then I'm afraid your expectations
> > are never going to be met (no matter what approach you take for asking
> > them) -- the people who answer questions (as well as create Struts)
> > are all volunteers.
> >
> > >
> > > Matt Bathje
> > >
> >
> >
> > Craig McClanahan
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 30364] - org.apache.struts.validator.DynaValidatorActionForm.validate(DynaValidatorActionForm.java:115)
Posted by Matt Bathje <mp...@ntsource.com>.
Sorry, I must have been REALLY unclear here - I am not saying I expect/want
people (or myself in particular) to ask questions on bugzilla and get a
quick answer - just the opposite in fact. I totally understand and agree
with all the reasons you mention for asking on the user list, and understood
them before bringing this (non?)issue up. I have never myself asked a
question on bugzilla that wasn't related to a bug or enhancement, and never
plan to!
What I am saying is that when people do ask questions on bugzilla, the
questions are almost always answered as they are closed out. Also (in
general) when somebody answers and closes the "bug", it is within a few
hours.
Sometimes responses on the user list aren't so quick, or they never come,
which can be discouraging.
These discouraged people may see bugzilla as a quick way to get what should
be a user-list question answered, because the commiters and other people
that watch bugzilla tend to answer the questions even if they aren't bugs.
Now - like I said, if it doesn't bother anybody that questions routinely get
asked and answered in bugzilla then this isn't an issue, and sorry for
bringing it up. If people are bothered by it, then I was offering one
possible solution.
Hopefully I've made myself more clear about this.
Matt Bathje
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig McClanahan" <cr...@gmail.com>
To: "Struts Developers List" <de...@struts.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 30364] -
org.apache.struts.validator.DynaValidatorActionForm.validate(DynaValidatorAc
tionForm.java:115)
> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:16:51 -0500, Matt Bathje <mp...@ntsource.com> wrote:
> > > ------- Additional Comments From niallp@apache.org 2004-07-28
> > 15:57 -------
> > > P.S. Rather than raising a *bug* report against Struts could you
please
> > post
> > > problems like this to the user list first.
> > >
> > > Raising *Bugs* is not the best way to get help - asking questions on
the
> > user
> > > list is.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> >
> > This is going to sound bad maybe - but from some peoples perspective,
filing
> > a bug report IS the best way to get help.
> >
> > Some questions to the users mailing list go unanswered (even something
> > simple like this may get ignored.) When somebody files a (non)bug report
> > like this though, it always seems to gets closed out very quickly with
an
> > answer and a "reprimand" to use the users list. The bug reporter gets
> > exactly what they want - a quick answer. They can completley ignore the
> > reprimand if they want.
> >
> > Now maybe this isn't a problem to anybody and it certainly doesn't
bother
> > me, I just thought I would bring it up based on what I've seen in the
few
> > months I've been part of the struts community.
> >
> > Of course, if this does bother people (especially if those people are
> > committers) we need a solution. The only one I can think of is to stop
> > rewarding the behavior - when somebody posts a "question" to bugzilla,
it
> > gets shut down quickly, but with no answer, just a pointer to the
mailing
> > list. (Whoever closed it down can also be sure to watch for the question
on
> > the user list and answer it so as not to piss people off...)
> >
> > Again, sorry if I am raising a non-issue, I just thought I would mention
it.
> >
>
> Matt, there are several "big picture" reasons that questions (as
> opposed to bug reports) should be raised on the user mailing list.
>
> * Issue tracking systems do not make it particularly easy to
> have a conversation and explore possibilities, particularly
> compared to how you can interleave conversational elements
> in responses to mailing list messages.
>
> * The audience of people available to answer your question is much
> larger than the audience of people who read bug reports.
>
> * The audience of people on the user mailing list probably has more
> experience *using* Struts than the developers do; they are much
> more likely to have run into something similar and figured out
> what to do.
>
> * When an answer is given on the mailing list, it is archived in many
> locations that provide powerful searching capabilities. The number
> of people who search mailing list archives before asking the same
> question again (while not as large as user list subscribers might
> prefer :-) is orders of magnitude larger than the number of people who
> would ever search the bug tracking system's archives.
>
> If you expect to actually get your questions answered, then, the user
> mailing list is the best place. However, if you expect to *always*
> get an answer, in a timely manner, then I'm afraid your expectations
> are never going to be met (no matter what approach you take for asking
> them) -- the people who answer questions (as well as create Struts)
> are all volunteers.
>
> >
> > Matt Bathje
> >
>
>
> Craig McClanahan
>
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