Proposal: mesosadm, the command to bootstrap the mesos cluster.

[tommy xiao <xi...@gmail.com>]

Hi team,


I came from china mesos community. in today's group discussion, we came
across a topic: Howto enhance user's cluster experience?

Because newcome user is top resource for a community. if we can enhance
currently mesos cluster installation steps, it will help us fastly
bootstrap in user community.

why mesosadm?

such as Swarm cluster setup steps:

1. docker init
2. docker join

another kuberenetes 1.5 cluster setup steps:

1. kubeadm init
2. kubeadm join --token <token> <master-ip>

So i think the init, join style is good experience for normal user. How
about you think?



-- 
Deshi Xiao
Twitter: xds2000
E-mail: xiaods(AT)gmail.com

Re: Proposal: mesosadm, the command to bootstrap the mesos cluster.

[Tobias Pfeiffer <tg...@preferred.jp>]

Hi,

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Alex Rukletsov <al...@mesosphere.com> wrote:

> I have a different opinion on this. Several years ago I came across the
> concept of "mean wizards" — any helpers that hide away important steps from
> the user and hence do not give them opportunity to learn how things
> actually work.
>

On a related note: I think most production setups will use some kind of
configuration management tool, Ansible, cfengine etc., often with an
declarative instead of imperative style. If you have a "command to set
something up", if calling that command is not an idempotent operation then
handling it in a declarative script becomes more difficult. You end up
writing "if some file (generated as a side effect of that program) is not
present, then run command, otherwise do nothing" instead of "ensure that
some configuration file is in place with a well-defined content".

While I think any tool that simplifies "getting started" is great, I think
this may turn all too quickly into a "mean wizard" thing that does some
black magic behind the scenes and that it becomes basically impossible to
setup Mesos *without* the wizard.

Tobias

Re: Proposal: mesosadm, the command to bootstrap the mesos cluster.

[Alex Rukletsov <al...@mesosphere.com>]

I have a different opinion on this. Several years ago I came across the
concept of "mean wizards" — any helpers that hide away important steps from
the user and hence do not give them opportunity to learn how things
actually work. (If you're interested it was about projects in Borland IDEs
that were giving you an editor with a "play" button in several clicks,
hiding all intermediate steps.)

Mesos is not the simplest piece of software. I want its users to
understand, what quorum is. I want them to understand how and why use rate
limiting. I want that they spend time figuring out why pointing work_dir to
/tmp is probably not the best idea.

Instead of giving them a false feeling that running Mesos in production is
as easy as running `cat` or `nano`, I'd rather focus in helping them
learning Mesos: better docs, tutorials, flags descriptions and so on.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 5:23 PM, tommy xiao <xi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> feel it.
>
> $ kubeadm reset $ service kubelet start $ kubeadm init
> --use-kubernetes-version=v1.5.1 for the freshest of kubes
>
>
> 2016-12-14 12:48 GMT+08:00 tommy xiao <xi...@gmail.com>:
>
>> yeah.
>>
>> 2016-12-14 12:22 GMT+08:00 haosdent <ha...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> We have a discussion in China User Group before.
>>> And Jay Guo mentioned that a better way may be just to remove zookeeper,
>>> and use the replicate log to do election.
>>> So for new comer, users just need to start masters and agents in
>>> production without zookeeper or etcd.
>>> The only necessary configuration item is the master address list, which
>>> would reduce a big overload to get starting Mesos.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Stephen Gran <st...@piksel.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I'm quite happy with the current approach of bootstrapping a new agent
>>>> with the location of zookeeper and a set of credentials.  This allows
>>>> our automation code to make new agents join the cluster automatically.
>>>>
>>>> Not that I'm opposed to the two step process you propose, I'm sure we
>>>> can make that happen automatically as well, but aside from making mesos
>>>> look more like other solutions, does it bring semantics that would be
>>>> useful?  ie, are there actions that 'mesosadm init' would initiate?  Or
>>>> would this be purely an interactive way to do the same things you can do
>>>> now by seeding out config files?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> On 13/12/16 05:14, tommy xiao wrote:
>>>> > Hi team,
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > I came from china mesos community. in today's group discussion, we
>>>> came
>>>> > across a topic: Howto enhance user's cluster experience?
>>>> >
>>>> > Because newcome user is top resource for a community. if we can
>>>> enhance
>>>> > currently mesos cluster installation steps, it will help us fastly
>>>> > bootstrap in user community.
>>>> >
>>>> > why mesosadm?
>>>> >
>>>> > such as Swarm cluster setup steps:
>>>> >
>>>> > 1. docker init
>>>> > 2. docker join
>>>> >
>>>> > another kuberenetes 1.5 cluster setup steps:
>>>> >
>>>> > 1. kubeadm init
>>>> > 2. kubeadm join --token <token> <master-ip>
>>>> >
>>>> > So i think the init, join style is good experience for normal user.
>>>> How
>>>> > about you think?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Deshi Xiao
>>>> > Twitter: xds2000
>>>> > E-mail: xiaods(AT)gmail.com <http://gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Stephen Gran
>>>> Senior Technical Architect
>>>>
>>>> picture the possibilities | piksel.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Haosdent Huang
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Deshi Xiao
>> Twitter: xds2000
>> E-mail: xiaods(AT)gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Deshi Xiao
> Twitter: xds2000
> E-mail: xiaods(AT)gmail.com
>

Re: Proposal: mesosadm, the command to bootstrap the mesos cluster.

[tommy xiao <xi...@gmail.com>]

feel it.

$ kubeadm reset $ service kubelet start $ kubeadm init
--use-kubernetes-version=v1.5.1 for the freshest of kubes


2016-12-14 12:48 GMT+08:00 tommy xiao <xi...@gmail.com>:

> yeah.
>
> 2016-12-14 12:22 GMT+08:00 haosdent <ha...@gmail.com>:
>
>> We have a discussion in China User Group before.
>> And Jay Guo mentioned that a better way may be just to remove zookeeper,
>> and use the replicate log to do election.
>> So for new comer, users just need to start masters and agents in
>> production without zookeeper or etcd.
>> The only necessary configuration item is the master address list, which
>> would reduce a big overload to get starting Mesos.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Stephen Gran <st...@piksel.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm quite happy with the current approach of bootstrapping a new agent
>>> with the location of zookeeper and a set of credentials.  This allows
>>> our automation code to make new agents join the cluster automatically.
>>>
>>> Not that I'm opposed to the two step process you propose, I'm sure we
>>> can make that happen automatically as well, but aside from making mesos
>>> look more like other solutions, does it bring semantics that would be
>>> useful?  ie, are there actions that 'mesosadm init' would initiate?  Or
>>> would this be purely an interactive way to do the same things you can do
>>> now by seeding out config files?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> On 13/12/16 05:14, tommy xiao wrote:
>>> > Hi team,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I came from china mesos community. in today's group discussion, we came
>>> > across a topic: Howto enhance user's cluster experience?
>>> >
>>> > Because newcome user is top resource for a community. if we can enhance
>>> > currently mesos cluster installation steps, it will help us fastly
>>> > bootstrap in user community.
>>> >
>>> > why mesosadm?
>>> >
>>> > such as Swarm cluster setup steps:
>>> >
>>> > 1. docker init
>>> > 2. docker join
>>> >
>>> > another kuberenetes 1.5 cluster setup steps:
>>> >
>>> > 1. kubeadm init
>>> > 2. kubeadm join --token <token> <master-ip>
>>> >
>>> > So i think the init, join style is good experience for normal user. How
>>> > about you think?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Deshi Xiao
>>> > Twitter: xds2000
>>> > E-mail: xiaods(AT)gmail.com <http://gmail.com>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Stephen Gran
>>> Senior Technical Architect
>>>
>>> picture the possibilities | piksel.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards,
>> Haosdent Huang
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Deshi Xiao
> Twitter: xds2000
> E-mail: xiaods(AT)gmail.com
>



-- 
Deshi Xiao
Twitter: xds2000
E-mail: xiaods(AT)gmail.com

Re: Proposal: mesosadm, the command to bootstrap the mesos cluster.

[tommy xiao <xi...@gmail.com>]

yeah.

2016-12-14 12:22 GMT+08:00 haosdent <ha...@gmail.com>:

> We have a discussion in China User Group before.
> And Jay Guo mentioned that a better way may be just to remove zookeeper,
> and use the replicate log to do election.
> So for new comer, users just need to start masters and agents in
> production without zookeeper or etcd.
> The only necessary configuration item is the master address list, which
> would reduce a big overload to get starting Mesos.
>
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Stephen Gran <st...@piksel.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm quite happy with the current approach of bootstrapping a new agent
>> with the location of zookeeper and a set of credentials.  This allows
>> our automation code to make new agents join the cluster automatically.
>>
>> Not that I'm opposed to the two step process you propose, I'm sure we
>> can make that happen automatically as well, but aside from making mesos
>> look more like other solutions, does it bring semantics that would be
>> useful?  ie, are there actions that 'mesosadm init' would initiate?  Or
>> would this be purely an interactive way to do the same things you can do
>> now by seeding out config files?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> On 13/12/16 05:14, tommy xiao wrote:
>> > Hi team,
>> >
>> >
>> > I came from china mesos community. in today's group discussion, we came
>> > across a topic: Howto enhance user's cluster experience?
>> >
>> > Because newcome user is top resource for a community. if we can enhance
>> > currently mesos cluster installation steps, it will help us fastly
>> > bootstrap in user community.
>> >
>> > why mesosadm?
>> >
>> > such as Swarm cluster setup steps:
>> >
>> > 1. docker init
>> > 2. docker join
>> >
>> > another kuberenetes 1.5 cluster setup steps:
>> >
>> > 1. kubeadm init
>> > 2. kubeadm join --token <token> <master-ip>
>> >
>> > So i think the init, join style is good experience for normal user. How
>> > about you think?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Deshi Xiao
>> > Twitter: xds2000
>> > E-mail: xiaods(AT)gmail.com <http://gmail.com>
>>
>> --
>> Stephen Gran
>> Senior Technical Architect
>>
>> picture the possibilities | piksel.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Haosdent Huang
>



-- 
Deshi Xiao
Twitter: xds2000
E-mail: xiaods(AT)gmail.com

Re: Proposal: mesosadm, the command to bootstrap the mesos cluster.

[haosdent <ha...@gmail.com>]

We have a discussion in China User Group before.
And Jay Guo mentioned that a better way may be just to remove zookeeper,
and use the replicate log to do election.
So for new comer, users just need to start masters and agents in production
without zookeeper or etcd.
The only necessary configuration item is the master address list, which
would reduce a big overload to get starting Mesos.

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Stephen Gran <st...@piksel.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm quite happy with the current approach of bootstrapping a new agent
> with the location of zookeeper and a set of credentials.  This allows
> our automation code to make new agents join the cluster automatically.
>
> Not that I'm opposed to the two step process you propose, I'm sure we
> can make that happen automatically as well, but aside from making mesos
> look more like other solutions, does it bring semantics that would be
> useful?  ie, are there actions that 'mesosadm init' would initiate?  Or
> would this be purely an interactive way to do the same things you can do
> now by seeding out config files?
>
> Cheers,
>
> On 13/12/16 05:14, tommy xiao wrote:
> > Hi team,
> >
> >
> > I came from china mesos community. in today's group discussion, we came
> > across a topic: Howto enhance user's cluster experience?
> >
> > Because newcome user is top resource for a community. if we can enhance
> > currently mesos cluster installation steps, it will help us fastly
> > bootstrap in user community.
> >
> > why mesosadm?
> >
> > such as Swarm cluster setup steps:
> >
> > 1. docker init
> > 2. docker join
> >
> > another kuberenetes 1.5 cluster setup steps:
> >
> > 1. kubeadm init
> > 2. kubeadm join --token <token> <master-ip>
> >
> > So i think the init, join style is good experience for normal user. How
> > about you think?
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Deshi Xiao
> > Twitter: xds2000
> > E-mail: xiaods(AT)gmail.com <http://gmail.com>
>
> --
> Stephen Gran
> Senior Technical Architect
>
> picture the possibilities | piksel.com
>



-- 
Best Regards,
Haosdent Huang

Re: Proposal: mesosadm, the command to bootstrap the mesos cluster.

[Stephen Gran <st...@piksel.com>]

Hi,

I'm quite happy with the current approach of bootstrapping a new agent 
with the location of zookeeper and a set of credentials.  This allows 
our automation code to make new agents join the cluster automatically.

Not that I'm opposed to the two step process you propose, I'm sure we 
can make that happen automatically as well, but aside from making mesos 
look more like other solutions, does it bring semantics that would be 
useful?  ie, are there actions that 'mesosadm init' would initiate?  Or 
would this be purely an interactive way to do the same things you can do 
now by seeding out config files?

Cheers,

On 13/12/16 05:14, tommy xiao wrote:
> Hi team,
>
>
> I came from china mesos community. in today's group discussion, we came
> across a topic: Howto enhance user's cluster experience?
>
> Because newcome user is top resource for a community. if we can enhance
> currently mesos cluster installation steps, it will help us fastly
> bootstrap in user community.
>
> why mesosadm?
>
> such as Swarm cluster setup steps:
>
> 1. docker init
> 2. docker join
>
> another kuberenetes 1.5 cluster setup steps:
>
> 1. kubeadm init
> 2. kubeadm join --token <token> <master-ip>
>
> So i think the init, join style is good experience for normal user. How
> about you think?
>
>
>
> --
> Deshi Xiao
> Twitter: xds2000
> E-mail: xiaods(AT)gmail.com <http://gmail.com>

-- 
Stephen Gran
Senior Technical Architect

picture the possibilities | piksel.com