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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by Aldo Bergamini <aa...@nb-a.com> on 2002/07/08 14:58:08 UTC
New to Tomcat/Mac OS 9
Hi all,
since the past weekend I am almost a Tomcat 3.x user. 'Almost' means that
as I am starting just now to study Tomcat 3.x (I am Mac user still
running Mac OS9 = JDK 1.1.8) I have had mixed results so far.
Some servlet examples run on T 3.2.4; I could not make 3.3.1 run in any way.
Is anybody else on this list having experience setting it up? The
translation process of installation instructions from command line/shell
environments is -to me- somewhat complex...
TIA
Rgds
--
Aldo
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Re: New to Tomcat/Mac OS 9
Posted by Aldo Bergamini <aa...@nb-a.com>.
Bill Barker is believed to have said:
>I don't actually have access to an OS/9 machine, but I've gotten 3.3.1 to
>run under Java 1.1.x.
>
>Most of the shell scripts are trying to guess your setup. However, what you
>actually need to do is fairly simple:
>1) set the CLASSPATH envronment variable to /path/to/tomcat/lib/tomcat.jar
>2) java -Dtomcat.home=/path/to/tomcat -Dtomcat.install=/path/to/tomcat
>org.apache.tomcat.startup.Main start
>
>You have to replace the '/' with whatever File.Separator is on OS/9. You
>have to specify the "tomcat.install" value to get past a bug that didn't get
>caught for 3.3.1 (but is fixed in the nightly) where some 1.1.x JVMs can't
>guess the value correctly.
Thanks Bill,
I will try to see if I can manage to have it running, too.
Rgds
--
Aldo
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Re: New to Tomcat/Mac OS 9
Posted by Joel Rees <jo...@alpsgiken.gr.jp>.
"Bill Barker" <wb...@wilshire.com> contributed
> Aldo Bergamini replied
>
> > Martin Jacobson is believed to have said:
> >
> > >Don't avoid OS X! Developing Java Apps on OS9 and before was terrible,
> > >to say the least! On Mac OS X it's much, much better! I recommend that
> >
> > Martin,
> >
> > OS X is in my plans. BUT: for somebody like myself with no Unix
> > experience it's a big jump.
...
> > Results are very bad: it's difficult to translate the configs and
> > settings from a language I do not know (any shell script in the standard
> > download is like it were form Mars).
>
> I don't actually have access to an OS/9 machine, but I've gotten 3.3.1 to
> run under Java 1.1.x.
>
> Most of the shell scripts are trying to guess your setup.
And I started rambling:
The closest thing to a shell script on Mac OS 9 and below is
AppleScript*. Imagine trying to program in natural language. It's a fun
language, and very perverse. Do not expect to convert shell scripts to
AppleScript, unless you know both rather well.
> However, what you
> actually need to do is fairly simple:
> 1) set the CLASSPATH envronment variable to /path/to/tomcat/lib/tomcat.jar
What CLASSPATH? Or, I should say, Mac OS 9 and below essentially have no
system concept of persistent paths*. (See above about shell scripts.)
> 2) java -Dtomcat.home=/path/to/tomcat -Dtomcat.install=/path/to/tomcat
> org.apache.tomcat.startup.Main start
No command line* to enter that on, either. (I wonder if you could pass
the parameters to MRJ from AppleScript and get a meaningful result. I
never did find out.)
> You have to replace the '/' with whatever File.Separator is on OS/9.
That's a colon, and the rules there are a little perverse, as well.
Let me see if I can recall this right:
:localdoc
:localFolder:doc
::docInParent
::folderInParent:doc
Volume:folder:doc
and it gets even weirder from there. And, just to confuse things, many
programming environments tend to allow things like
localDoc
localFolder:doc
as well. Like I said, a little perverse.
Okay, by now my little white lie might be showing through:
[*] I said no shell. I should rather have said that, in classic
Macintosh programming, you, or your tool provider, supplied the
libraries that gave you any access to things like persistent paths,
command lines, and shell programming. When AppleScript became available,
it was the closest thing to a programmable shell that you could (almost)
expect to be on every system.
There was/is Apple's Macintosh Programmer's Workbench, a sort of
shell-on-steriods-hobbled-by-lack-of-true-task-separation that had a
unique syntax and set of delimiters, but otherwise was very similar to
UNIX shells. You basically did _not_ expect your end user to have this.
But it did provide paths and such. I don't remember if they ever did
really get Java to work with MPW. I seem to recall command line
parameter and environment access within programs called from MPW to have
been really bizarre. You had to compile the programs with special
libraries, and even then the access was not as easy as argc, argv, etc.
(MPW would be fun to re-implement as a UNIX shell, now, if one had a
spare year or two to throw at it.)
Think, Metrowerks and other compiler manufacturers provided virtual
console windows and other library stuff for emulating the standard
functions for C. These were useful, but were by no means programmable
shells.
MacPerl also provides a really interesting pseudo-command-line
environment. Interfaces quite well to BBEdit (and Alpha, as well, from
what I hear). I don't think anyone has thought to try to use that
combination as the command line for a Java environment, however. Wait. I
recall somebody mentioned the idea on a MacPerl mailing list, but the
thread seemed to stop rather quickly.
Hopefully, the above should make it clear that trying to develop Tomcat
on Mac OS 9 is not what you want to do if you have deadlines. Might be
fun if you have no deadlines and are really motivated to learn the old
classic programming environment as well as the BSD/Darwin environment.
But it is not a way to escape from Mac OS X.
Hmm. If you have the money to put your Tomcat server on a separate Mac
OS X box, set up a small local network, and then edit, upload, etc.,
from your friendly Mac OS 9 environment, that may help ease the
transition a bit.
> You
> have to specify the "tomcat.install" value to get past a bug that didn't get
> caught for 3.3.1 (but is fixed in the nightly) where some 1.1.x JVMs can't
> guess the value correctly.
>
>
> >
> > >you get GNU tar as the standard tar doesn't handle long paths, and I
> > >don't like the standard tcsh, so downloaded bash. BBEdit as the text
> > >editor, and you're away!
I like BBEdit. I especially like how it handles UNICODE. The syntax
coloring may also be rather helpful with the XML stuff. And it runs on
Mac OS X, of course. You won't notice the difference. (Not much any way.)
> > BBEdit is one of the first upgrades that go with OS X. GNU stuff in the
> > same round...
> >
> > >And why use Tomcat 3, when Tomcat 4 is so good?
> >
> > BTW: it's so difficult to find ANY hint or tutorial on how Tomcat 3 needs
> > to be configured. At times I hate living in a fast moving profession...
>
> The user's guide at
> http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-3.3-doc/tomcat-ug.html is a good
> place to start.
And don't forget the on-line docs in the distribution. You have to get
the server running to run the examples, but you can browse the docs
before you get the server running. Those docs have the information you
need.
If getting to the docs on the jakarta site is too much trouble and you
need to browse the docs before you get Tomcat running, you might try one
of two things.
One, use gnutar (I think -x is the extract flag?) to extract the tarball
in a directory you can see from the Finder. Even if you want to run it
from a part of the tree that you have to use the terminal app and a
shell to see, unless you're really tight for disk space, having it
unarchived in two places won't hurt. Since it doesn't run like a regular
Mac application, there will be no question about which copy is running.
The other thing you might try is to reboot in Mac OS 9, but you'll need
something to set the file types to TEXT, or your browser may refuse to
open them. Probably the first idea will be easier.
> > >I love OS X!
> > >Martin
> >
> > As as long, LONG time Mac user, it's a mixed feeling. I know that there
> > are a ton of improvements and advantages, but somehow I managed to wait
> > until now. Go figure...
As of 10.1, I no longer really noticed much. But I have been a UNIX user
about as long as I've been a Mac user. I do miss a few things that
didn't show up until fairly late, like turning folders into tabs at the
bottom of the screen. Sure, you can put folders in the dock, but it does
feel a little different. Sort of like stepping back to System 7, but in
a parallel universe.
You'll probably want to put the terminal app in the dock. Then, one of
the first commands you need to get used to is "man". (Unfortunately,
"apropos" is not yet supported.)
man cd
man ls
man man
man gnutar
man vi
Start reading the manual pages now, and don't start setting any
deadlines until you've got Tomcat running. You're looking at about five
to forty hours to get started with Mac OS X, where you'd be looking at
complete unknowns with Mac OS 9. (Whole man-years maybe.)
Oh. If you've got web sharing (apache!) running, you'll probably want to
shut it down while you're getting Tomcat running. Apache is a little bit
of a pain, because you'll be using the finder to start and stop it, but
you'll be using the shell (terminal app) and vi to edit the
configuration files.
--
Joel Rees <jo...@alpsgiken.gr.jp>
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Re: New to Tomcat/Mac OS 9
Posted by Bill Barker <wb...@wilshire.com>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aldo Bergamini" <aa...@nb-a.com>
To: "Tomcat Users List" <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: New to Tomcat/Mac OS 9
> Martin Jacobson is believed to have said:
>
> >Don't avoid OS X! Developing Java Apps on OS9 and before was terrible,
> >to say the least! On Mac OS X it's much, much better! I recommend that
>
> Martin,
>
> OS X is in my plans. BUT: for somebody like myself with no Unix
> experience it's a big jump.
>
> So I need to have a little bit of time for that: it was scheduled for a
> period like August were biz is resting (a least here in Italy: the best
> time for an invasion plan, as everybody is at some beach or sleeping
> anywhere else).
>
> Still there are now some more urgent needs than I thought, and I finally
> settled about starting a few experiments right away on the OS I know.
>
> Results are very bad: it's difficult to translate the configs and
> settings from a language I do not know (any shell script in the standard
> download is like it were form Mars).
I don't actually have access to an OS/9 machine, but I've gotten 3.3.1 to
run under Java 1.1.x.
Most of the shell scripts are trying to guess your setup. However, what you
actually need to do is fairly simple:
1) set the CLASSPATH envronment variable to /path/to/tomcat/lib/tomcat.jar
2) java -Dtomcat.home=/path/to/tomcat -Dtomcat.install=/path/to/tomcat
org.apache.tomcat.startup.Main start
You have to replace the '/' with whatever File.Separator is on OS/9. You
have to specify the "tomcat.install" value to get past a bug that didn't get
caught for 3.3.1 (but is fixed in the nightly) where some 1.1.x JVMs can't
guess the value correctly.
>
> >you get GNU tar as the standard tar doesn't handle long paths, and I
> >don't like the standard tcsh, so downloaded bash. BBEdit as the text
> >editor, and you're away!
>
> BBEdit is one of the first upgrades that go with OS X. GNU stuff in the
> same round...
>
> >And why use Tomcat 3, when Tomcat 4 is so good?
>
> BTW: it's so difficult to find ANY hint or tutorial on how Tomcat 3 needs
> to be configured. At times I hate living in a fast moving profession...
The user's guide at
http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-3.3-doc/tomcat-ug.html is a good
place to start.
>
> >I love OS X!
> >Martin
>
> As as long, LONG time Mac user, it's a mixed feeling. I know that there
> are a ton of improvements and advantages, but somehow I managed to wait
> until now. Go figure...
>
> Rgds
> --
> Aldo
>
>
>
--
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Re: New to Tomcat/Mac OS 9
Posted by Aldo Bergamini <aa...@nb-a.com>.
Martin Jacobson is believed to have said:
>Don't avoid OS X! Developing Java Apps on OS9 and before was terrible,
>to say the least! On Mac OS X it's much, much better! I recommend that
Martin,
OS X is in my plans. BUT: for somebody like myself with no Unix
experience it's a big jump.
So I need to have a little bit of time for that: it was scheduled for a
period like August were biz is resting (a least here in Italy: the best
time for an invasion plan, as everybody is at some beach or sleeping
anywhere else).
Still there are now some more urgent needs than I thought, and I finally
settled about starting a few experiments right away on the OS I know.
Results are very bad: it's difficult to translate the configs and
settings from a language I do not know (any shell script in the standard
download is like it were form Mars).
>you get GNU tar as the standard tar doesn't handle long paths, and I
>don't like the standard tcsh, so downloaded bash. BBEdit as the text
>editor, and you're away!
BBEdit is one of the first upgrades that go with OS X. GNU stuff in the
same round...
>And why use Tomcat 3, when Tomcat 4 is so good?
BTW: it's so difficult to find ANY hint or tutorial on how Tomcat 3 needs
to be configured. At times I hate living in a fast moving profession...
>I love OS X!
>Martin
As as long, LONG time Mac user, it's a mixed feeling. I know that there
are a ton of improvements and advantages, but somehow I managed to wait
until now. Go figure...
Rgds
--
Aldo
--
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Re: New to Tomcat/Mac OS 9
Posted by Martin Jacobson <ma...@libero.it>.
Aldo Bergamini wrote:
> Peter Werno is believed to have said:
>
>
>>Hello Aldo,
>>
>>this is more guessing than knowing, but the Apple MRJ / JDK isn't Java
>>2. If tomcat 3.3.x uses some Java 2 commands then you'd need to
>>upgrade to OS X (which runs any kind of Tomcat just fine)
>>You should probably post this on the Developer-List, maybe someone
>>there is able to tell you if there are Java 2 elements in 3.3.x
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Peter
>>
>
> Thanks Peter,
>
> I'll ask the Developer-List.
>
> It seems that OS X is getting more and more unavoidable...
>
>
> Rgds
>
Don't avoid OS X! Developing Java Apps on OS9 and before was terrible,
to say the least! On Mac OS X it's much, much better! I recommend that
you get GNU tar as the standard tar doesn't handle long paths, and I
don't like the standard tcsh, so downloaded bash. BBEdit as the text
editor, and you're away!
And why use Tomcat 3, when Tomcat 4 is so good?
I love OS X!
Martin
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Re: New to Tomcat/Mac OS 9
Posted by Aldo Bergamini <aa...@nb-a.com>.
Peter Werno is believed to have said:
>Hello Aldo,
>
>this is more guessing than knowing, but the Apple MRJ / JDK isn't Java
>2. If tomcat 3.3.x uses some Java 2 commands then you'd need to
>upgrade to OS X (which runs any kind of Tomcat just fine)
>You should probably post this on the Developer-List, maybe someone
>there is able to tell you if there are Java 2 elements in 3.3.x
>
>Regards,
>
>Peter
Thanks Peter,
I'll ask the Developer-List.
It seems that OS X is getting more and more unavoidable...
Rgds
--
Aldo
--
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Re: New to Tomcat/Mac OS 9
Posted by Peter Werno <pe...@werno.com>.
Hello Aldo,
this is more guessing than knowing, but the Apple MRJ / JDK isn't Java
2. If tomcat 3.3.x uses some Java 2 commands then you'd need to
upgrade to OS X (which runs any kind of Tomcat just fine)
You should probably post this on the Developer-List, maybe someone
there is able to tell you if there are Java 2 elements in 3.3.x
Regards,
Peter
On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 14:58:08 +0200
Aldo Bergamini <aa...@nb-a.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> since the past weekend I am almost a Tomcat 3.x user. 'Almost' means
> that
> as I am starting just now to study Tomcat 3.x (I am Mac user still
> running Mac OS9 = JDK 1.1.8) I have had mixed results so far.
>
> Some servlet examples run on T 3.2.4; I could not make 3.3.1 run in
> any way.
>
> Is anybody else on this list having experience setting it up? The
> translation process of installation instructions from command
> line/shell
> environments is -to me- somewhat complex...
>
> TIA
>
>
> Rgds
> --
> Aldo
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
--
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