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Posted to dev@maven.apache.org by Grzegorz Słowikowski <gs...@op.pl> on 2006/02/28 13:08:40 UTC
[discussion] Improving poms on ibiblio
Hi all
We know there are many errors in poms on ibiblio. I would like
to help to improve some of them.
There are some areas I am interesting most. First Tomcat 5.5.x.
I analyzed ALL Tomcat 5.5.9, 5.5.12 and 5.5.15 ibiblio artifacts.
What I found is:
- all 5.5.9 and 5.5.12 artifacts have empty poms - only modelVersion,
groupId, artifactId and version tags, no dependencies!!
- all 5.5.15 artifacts have NO poms (I cannot even find maven upload issue
for Tomcat 5.5.15 to check who uploaded it)
I placed first two issues on MEV:
http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MEV-344
http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MEV-343
I wanted someone copy empty poms from 5.5.12 to 5.5.15 changing only
version. Carlos immediately closed them with "Won't fix" status and comment
"We don't generate empty poms. If you know what the dependencies are
you can submit the pom."
I don't understand this. There are only empty poms for all Tomcat 5.5.x artifacts.
I can do an investigation (check out sources from svn, compare with distribution
sources, compile) and generate all poms with dependencies. I can even generate
sources and javadocs jars. But I don't know what is the policy.
1. Is it right to prepare pom by person which is not a product author?
When generating dependencies I may omit something that is runtime only for
example.
2. Should I generate sources and javadocs jars?
3. How can non-author say which dependencies shold be optional?
There are some other products I found their poms need improvements, and I can
suggest the improvements, but I would like to hear what do you thing about it all
I wrote.
Greg
Re: [discussion] Improving poms on ibiblio
Posted by Carlos Sanchez <ca...@apache.org>.
John is right, we stopped not long ago creating those poms that had
only minimal information. We prefer not having metadata than having
that, at least you now get a warning about it and if someone fixes the
pom you'll get it right away without having to delete stuff in your
local repo.
On 2/28/06, John Casey <jd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi, my replies are inline.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
>
> [snip]
> >
> > I analyzed ALL Tomcat 5.5.9, 5.5.12 and 5.5.15 ibiblio artifacts.
> > What I found is:
> > - all 5.5.9 and 5.5.12 artifacts have empty poms - only modelVersion,
> > groupId, artifactId and version tags, no dependencies!!
> > - all 5.5.15 artifacts have NO poms (I cannot even find maven upload issue
> > for Tomcat 5.5.15 to check who uploaded it)
> >
> > I placed first two issues on MEV:
> > http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MEV-344
> > http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MEV-343
> > I wanted someone copy empty poms from 5.5.12 to 5.5.15 changing only
> > version. Carlos immediately closed them with "Won't fix" status and comment
> > "We don't generate empty poms. If you know what the dependencies are
> > you can submit the pom."
> > I don't understand this. There are only empty poms for all Tomcat 5.5.x artifacts.
>
> Those empty POMs are likely a product of an early attempt to improve the
> usability of the Maven 2 repository, without having to painstakingly
> address the correctness. The idea was to produce something which was at
> least as usable as Maven 1, which doesn't support transitive dependency
> resolution. This empty POM construction was an automated process, and
> the way I understand things, it's been turned off. For MEV requests,
> which are meant to improve both the usability and correctness of the
> repository, POMs should not be empty.
>
> >
> > I can do an investigation (check out sources from svn, compare with distribution
> > sources, compile) and generate all poms with dependencies. I can even generate
> > sources and javadocs jars. But I don't know what is the policy.
> > 1. Is it right to prepare pom by person which is not a product author?
> > When generating dependencies I may omit something that is runtime only for
> > example.
>
> I'd say that getting these POMs included for maintenance in the projects
> is important, but not as high a priority as maintaining the repository.
> The MEV project is intended to let the community help in the maintenance
> of the repository. To me, this means any user who's in a position to
> know about a project's POM should be able to submit improvements. If
> something turns out to be wrong, we can once again revise it.
>
> > 2. Should I generate sources and javadocs jars?
>
> I would think this is an activity for the project maintainers...it's a
> little different than the POM metadata, IMO. Is this something you need
> to have available in the repository?
>
> > 3. How can non-author say which dependencies shold be optional?
>
> To some extent, you can guess. If that guess is wrong, then it will be
> revised by someone else who finds the error.
>
> Personally, I'd hate to see the community paralyzed into using the
> repository as-is simply because they're worried about getting something
> slightly wrong, or stepping on the toes of the project dev team. Of
> course, if the project publishes Maven POMs, then they need to be
> involved in keeping that POM metadata as accurate as it can be; users of
> those projects are in a unique position to apply pressure for this sort
> of thing. ;-) However, if it's up to the Maven community to maintain a
> POM, then IMO slightly wrong is still mostly right, and can be improved
> upon all the more easily.
>
> >
> > There are some other products I found their poms need improvements, and I can
> > suggest the improvements, but I would like to hear what do you thing about it all
> > I wrote.
>
> We can use all the help you'd like to give. :-)
>
> Please read this guide to help in putting together MEV requests for more
> efficient processing:
>
> http://maven.apache.org/guides/mini/guide-maven-evangelism.html
>
> >
> > Greg
> >
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
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>
>
--
I could give you my word as a Spaniard.
No good. I've known too many Spaniards.
-- The Princess Bride
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Re: [discussion] Improving poms on ibiblio
Posted by John Casey <jd...@yahoo.com>.
Hi, my replies are inline.
Cheers,
John
[snip]
>
> I analyzed ALL Tomcat 5.5.9, 5.5.12 and 5.5.15 ibiblio artifacts.
> What I found is:
> - all 5.5.9 and 5.5.12 artifacts have empty poms - only modelVersion,
> groupId, artifactId and version tags, no dependencies!!
> - all 5.5.15 artifacts have NO poms (I cannot even find maven upload issue
> for Tomcat 5.5.15 to check who uploaded it)
>
> I placed first two issues on MEV:
> http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MEV-344
> http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MEV-343
> I wanted someone copy empty poms from 5.5.12 to 5.5.15 changing only
> version. Carlos immediately closed them with "Won't fix" status and comment
> "We don't generate empty poms. If you know what the dependencies are
> you can submit the pom."
> I don't understand this. There are only empty poms for all Tomcat 5.5.x artifacts.
Those empty POMs are likely a product of an early attempt to improve the
usability of the Maven 2 repository, without having to painstakingly
address the correctness. The idea was to produce something which was at
least as usable as Maven 1, which doesn't support transitive dependency
resolution. This empty POM construction was an automated process, and
the way I understand things, it's been turned off. For MEV requests,
which are meant to improve both the usability and correctness of the
repository, POMs should not be empty.
>
> I can do an investigation (check out sources from svn, compare with distribution
> sources, compile) and generate all poms with dependencies. I can even generate
> sources and javadocs jars. But I don't know what is the policy.
> 1. Is it right to prepare pom by person which is not a product author?
> When generating dependencies I may omit something that is runtime only for
> example.
I'd say that getting these POMs included for maintenance in the projects
is important, but not as high a priority as maintaining the repository.
The MEV project is intended to let the community help in the maintenance
of the repository. To me, this means any user who's in a position to
know about a project's POM should be able to submit improvements. If
something turns out to be wrong, we can once again revise it.
> 2. Should I generate sources and javadocs jars?
I would think this is an activity for the project maintainers...it's a
little different than the POM metadata, IMO. Is this something you need
to have available in the repository?
> 3. How can non-author say which dependencies shold be optional?
To some extent, you can guess. If that guess is wrong, then it will be
revised by someone else who finds the error.
Personally, I'd hate to see the community paralyzed into using the
repository as-is simply because they're worried about getting something
slightly wrong, or stepping on the toes of the project dev team. Of
course, if the project publishes Maven POMs, then they need to be
involved in keeping that POM metadata as accurate as it can be; users of
those projects are in a unique position to apply pressure for this sort
of thing. ;-) However, if it's up to the Maven community to maintain a
POM, then IMO slightly wrong is still mostly right, and can be improved
upon all the more easily.
>
> There are some other products I found their poms need improvements, and I can
> suggest the improvements, but I would like to hear what do you thing about it all
> I wrote.
We can use all the help you'd like to give. :-)
Please read this guide to help in putting together MEV requests for more
efficient processing:
http://maven.apache.org/guides/mini/guide-maven-evangelism.html
>
> Greg
>
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Re: [discussion] Improving poms on ibiblio
Posted by Jacek Laskowski <el...@gmail.com>.
06-02-28, Grzegorz Słowikowski <gs...@op.pl> napisał(a):
> There are some areas I am interesting most. First Tomcat 5.5.x.
>
> I analyzed ALL Tomcat 5.5.9, 5.5.12 and 5.5.15 ibiblio artifacts.
> What I found is:
> - all 5.5.9 and 5.5.12 artifacts have empty poms - only modelVersion,
> groupId, artifactId and version tags, no dependencies!!
> - all 5.5.15 artifacts have NO poms (I cannot even find maven upload issue
> for Tomcat 5.5.15 to check who uploaded it)
Witaj Grzegorz!
I'm almost sure they are on iBiblio for Apache Geronimo. Since Tomcat
doesn't generate them, we were given the permission to do it and as
usual the time constraints didn't allow us to make it more elegant.
Please let us know when they change so that we won't spend much time
scratching our heads when the Geronimo build breaks.
> Greg
Jacek
--
Jacek Laskowski
http://www.laskowski.org.pl
Re: [discussion] Improving poms on ibiblio
Posted by Grzegorz Słowikowski <gs...@op.pl>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacek Laskowski" <el...@gmail.com>
To: "Maven Developers List" <de...@maven.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: [discussion] Improving poms on ibiblio
> 06-03-06, Grzegorz Słowikowski <gs...@op.pl> napisał(a):
>
>> Hi Wendy
>>
>> Now I have some time and I started preparing poms for all Tomcat
>> artifacts.
>> I have checked out all modules from svn (tags TOMCAT_5_5_15) and now
>> I'm preparing poms for them. I already see, that I will have many
>> questions.
>> Where can we discuss it all? On Tomcat Bugzilla?
>
> Witaj Grzegorz,
>
> Isn't it already sorted out? See
> http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MAVENUPLOAD-761.
>
No, Brett made only commons-modeler pom and uploaded it with jar.
Tomcat artifacts still wait for poms.
Greg
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Re: [discussion] Improving poms on ibiblio
Posted by Jacek Laskowski <el...@gmail.com>.
06-03-06, Grzegorz Słowikowski <gs...@op.pl> napisał(a):
> Hi Wendy
>
> Now I have some time and I started preparing poms for all Tomcat artifacts.
> I have checked out all modules from svn (tags TOMCAT_5_5_15) and now
> I'm preparing poms for them. I already see, that I will have many questions.
> Where can we discuss it all? On Tomcat Bugzilla?
Witaj Grzegorz,
Isn't it already sorted out? See
http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MAVENUPLOAD-761.
> Greg
Jacek
--
Jacek Laskowski
http://www.laskowski.org.pl
Re: [discussion] Improving poms on ibiblio
Posted by Grzegorz Słowikowski <gs...@op.pl>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wendy Smoak" <ws...@gmail.com>
To: "Maven Developers List" <de...@maven.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [discussion] Improving poms on ibiblio
> On 2/28/06, Grzegorz Słowikowski <gs...@op.pl> wrote:
>
> I analyzed ALL Tomcat 5.5.9, 5.5.12 and 5.5.15 ibiblio artifacts.
>> What I found is:
>> - all 5.5.9 and 5.5.12 artifacts have empty poms - only modelVersion,
>> groupId, artifactId and version tags, no dependencies!!
>> - all 5.5.15 artifacts have NO poms (I cannot even find maven upload
>> issue
>> for Tomcat 5.5.15 to check who uploaded it)
>
>
> It would have been synced from the Apache repository, not uploaded.
>
> I'm not sure about "we don't generate empty poms" though. Has that
> changed? If there was no pom we used to get a minimal one so Maven 2
> would
> at least "work" even without transitive dependencies.
>
>
>> I can do an investigation (check out sources from svn, compare with
>> distribution
>> sources, compile) and generate all poms with dependencies. I can even
>> generate
>> sources and javadocs jars. But I don't know what is the policy.
>> 1. Is it right to prepare pom by person which is not a product author?
>> When generating dependencies I may omit something that is runtime only
>> for
>> example.
>
>
> For an Apache project with missing poms, I think the best thing is to
> convince the developers to put the files in dist/java-repository where
> they
> will sync over to ibiblio. Less work for Carlos that way. :) If you have
> time to create the poms and open a Bugzilla 'enhancement' ticket with
> Tomcat, I'll watch for it and help.
>
> --
> Wendy
>
Hi Wendy
Now I have some time and I started preparing poms for all Tomcat artifacts.
I have checked out all modules from svn (tags TOMCAT_5_5_15) and now
I'm preparing poms for them. I already see, that I will have many questions.
Where can we discuss it all? On Tomcat Bugzilla?
Question #1: Where are sources for naming-factory-dbcp.jar?
Greetings
Greg
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Re: [discussion] Improving poms on ibiblio
Posted by Wendy Smoak <ws...@gmail.com>.
On 2/28/06, Grzegorz Słowikowski <gs...@op.pl> wrote:
I analyzed ALL Tomcat 5.5.9, 5.5.12 and 5.5.15 ibiblio artifacts.
> What I found is:
> - all 5.5.9 and 5.5.12 artifacts have empty poms - only modelVersion,
> groupId, artifactId and version tags, no dependencies!!
> - all 5.5.15 artifacts have NO poms (I cannot even find maven upload issue
> for Tomcat 5.5.15 to check who uploaded it)
It would have been synced from the Apache repository, not uploaded.
I'm not sure about "we don't generate empty poms" though. Has that
changed? If there was no pom we used to get a minimal one so Maven 2 would
at least "work" even without transitive dependencies.
> I can do an investigation (check out sources from svn, compare with
> distribution
> sources, compile) and generate all poms with dependencies. I can even
> generate
> sources and javadocs jars. But I don't know what is the policy.
> 1. Is it right to prepare pom by person which is not a product author?
> When generating dependencies I may omit something that is runtime only for
> example.
For an Apache project with missing poms, I think the best thing is to
convince the developers to put the files in dist/java-repository where they
will sync over to ibiblio. Less work for Carlos that way. :) If you have
time to create the poms and open a Bugzilla 'enhancement' ticket with
Tomcat, I'll watch for it and help.
--
Wendy