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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net> on 2003/02/05 20:35:45 UTC
Re: Clear the air Re: ATTN: Maven developers [was: primary distri bution location]
On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 02:29 PM, Nick Chalko wrote:
>
> I hope to have a proposal started on the Wiki tonight (PST). The Maven
> repository
> has been an essential tool for me for me.
> The next step is to play nice with gump.
> Then do help with dependencies
> Also to make it easy for projects to "brand" themselves with version
> and
> dependency information.
>
JJAR in commons sandbox had some of these ideas in there... But can
you build this into maven rather than in parallel?
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-956-2604(w)
Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m)
geirm@adeptra.com
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Re: Clear the air Re: ATTN: Maven developers [was: primary distri
bution location]
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>
> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote, On 05/02/2003 20.35:
> >
> > On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 02:29 PM, Nick Chalko wrote:
> >
> >>
> > JJAR in commons sandbox had some of these ideas in there... But can you
> > build this into maven rather than in parallel?
>
> We had started using JJAR in Centipede. Then one of our developers
> decided to write Ruper, that works with Maven repositories.
> Now we come to the point that we need the features that JJAR gives too,
> although we have now a clearer picture of what is needed.
>
> JJAR functionality and codebase (merging) will be part of the proposal.
>
> BTW, we are not Maven developers.
Why not work with Jason to extract the current Maven functionality for
this feature, then enhance it as a sibling/child of the overall Maven
project?
Hen
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Re: Clear the air Re: ATTN: Maven developers [was: primary distri
bution location]
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote, On 05/02/2003 20.35:
>
> On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 02:29 PM, Nick Chalko wrote:
>
>>
>> I hope to have a proposal started on the Wiki tonight (PST). The Maven
>> repository
>> has been an essential tool for me for me.
>> The next step is to play nice with gump.
>> Then do help with dependencies
>> Also to make it easy for projects to "brand" themselves with version and
>> dependency information.
>>
>
> JJAR in commons sandbox had some of these ideas in there... But can you
> build this into maven rather than in parallel?
We had started using JJAR in Centipede. Then one of our developers
decided to write Ruper, that works with Maven repositories.
Now we come to the point that we need the features that JJAR gives too,
although we have now a clearer picture of what is needed.
JJAR functionality and codebase (merging) will be part of the proposal.
BTW, we are not Maven developers.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Proposal
Posted by Santiago Gala <sg...@hisitech.com>.
Costin Manolache wrote:
> Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
(...)
>>
>>wow... :-(
>
>
> I don't know what "wow" means - but it is absolutely normal for any
> community. I'm sure there are people who don't like working with me ( or
> anyone else )- and the reverse.
> I don't think anyone can reasonably expect anything else.
>
+1
> What's important is for everyone to keep having some fun and decide for
> himself if beeing in a community like jakarta ( and benefiting from the
> diversity of opinions and ideas - even from people we don't like ) is worth
> the effort of dealing with the people we don't like ( or strongly disagree
> with, or both ).
>
There is a positive aspect to this, and it starts when (project)
frontiers are established between non-working-together (but respectful)
teams. These frontiers are likely to evolve into APIs and products that
are strictly controlled for compliancy (I would say fiercly ;-) and this
is A Good Thing.
But the premise is having the parties to agree in the frontiers, i.e.
having clear concerns for subprojects, modularising the essential parts
and competing with the rest of it.
I mean, we're not as Microsoft, breaking compatibility for the sake of it.
I think such a scenario is one of the best possible ones, provided that
the heat does not make things explode.
Just my two cents,
Santiago
> As ( and if ) jakarta becomes a single community - everyone will have to
> deal with this decision.
>
> Costin
>
>
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Re: Proposal
Posted by Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>.
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>>
>>
>>Can't do it. I will never collaborate on anything with Nicola Ken
>>Barozzi. And if I have to say it in public I will. I would probably
>>participate in anything but not with him.
>>
>>
>>
> wow... :-(
I don't know what "wow" means - but it is absolutely normal for any
community. I'm sure there are people who don't like working with me ( or
anyone else )- and the reverse.
I don't think anyone can reasonably expect anything else.
What's important is for everyone to keep having some fun and decide for
himself if beeing in a community like jakarta ( and benefiting from the
diversity of opinions and ideas - even from people we don't like ) is worth
the effort of dealing with the people we don't like ( or strongly disagree
with, or both ).
As ( and if ) jakarta becomes a single community - everyone will have to
deal with this decision.
Costin
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Re: Proposal
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
>
>Can't do it. I will never collaborate on anything with Nicola Ken
>Barozzi. And if I have to say it in public I will. I would probably
>participate in anything but not with him.
>
>
>
wow... :-(
-Andy
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Re: Proposal
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
Seriously people, just forget this strand of the thread. Jason hasn't
slept and is under stress due to family issues.
Jason will probably be mad at me for posting this, but I wanted to say
something.
geir
On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 05:30 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 17:26, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>> On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 16:08, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>>> Jason,
>>>
>>> Can you please add your name to this as a committer and/or a
>>> sponsoring
>>> member: http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?RuperProposal
>>> Also other maven folks?
>>>
>>> I value your previous experience and existing source code.
>>
>> Can't do it. I will never collaborate on anything with Nicola Ken
>> Barozzi. And if I have to say it in public I will. I would probably
>> participate in anything but not with him.
>
> Ah damn, when it rains it pours. The old man is in a coma, I haven't
> slept in days and I can't read reply-to headers. That was not meant for
> public consumption.
>
>>> -Andy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
> --
> jvz.
>
> Jason van Zyl
> jason@zenplex.com
> http://tambora.zenplex.org
>
> In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
> and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
>
> -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-956-2604(w)
Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m)
geirm@adeptra.com
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Re: Proposal
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@zenplex.com>.
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 17:26, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 16:08, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> > Jason,
> >
> > Can you please add your name to this as a committer and/or a sponsoring
> > member: http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?RuperProposal
> > Also other maven folks?
> >
> > I value your previous experience and existing source code.
>
> Can't do it. I will never collaborate on anything with Nicola Ken
> Barozzi. And if I have to say it in public I will. I would probably
> participate in anything but not with him.
Ah damn, when it rains it pours. The old man is in a coma, I haven't
slept in days and I can't read reply-to headers. That was not meant for
public consumption.
> > -Andy
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
--
jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jason@zenplex.com
http://tambora.zenplex.org
In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
-- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
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Re: Proposal
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@zenplex.com>.
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 16:08, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> Jason,
>
> Can you please add your name to this as a committer and/or a sponsoring
> member: http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?RuperProposal
> Also other maven folks?
>
> I value your previous experience and existing source code.
Can't do it. I will never collaborate on anything with Nicola Ken
Barozzi. And if I have to say it in public I will. I would probably
participate in anything but not with him.
> -Andy
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
--
jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jason@zenplex.com
http://tambora.zenplex.org
In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
-- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
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Re: Proposal
Posted by Ted Leung <tw...@sauria.com>.
Let me second Andy's request. The proposal is much less interesting if what
is developed is not usable by Maven -- Having a new project which competes
with a piece of Maven will leave us with a bad solution for this problem
space. Also, I think it's clear that the Maven developers have thought
carefully about this problem, and I don't want to waste time reinventing the
wheel or rediscovering the hard problems.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>
To: "Jakarta General List" <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:08 PM
Subject: Proposal
> Jason,
>
> Can you please add your name to this as a committer and/or a sponsoring
> member: http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?RuperProposal
> Also other maven folks?
>
> I value your previous experience and existing source code.
>
> -Andy
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
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Proposal
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Jason,
Can you please add your name to this as a committer and/or a sponsoring
member: http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?RuperProposal
Also other maven folks?
I value your previous experience and existing source code.
-Andy
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Re: Clear the air Re: ATTN: Maven developers [was: primary
distribution location]
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@zenplex.com>.
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 14:50, Ted Leung wrote:
> I'd like to see this broken out of Maven / Centipede whatever, and put into
> libraries that can be used independent of the build tools.
>
> I also think that we need to plan for multiple repositories, whether they be
> ASF, ibiblio, what have you.
That's dealt with in Maven.
> There are two ideas going on in this thread. One is about the mechanism --
> the repository, version management, dependency tracing, resource retreival
> etc.
All dealt with in Maven.
> The other is about policy -- what kind of stuff can be in a particular
> repository. If the ASF ultimately decides to run its own repository with
> ASF policy that's fine. That shouldn't prevent the iBiblio repository (with
> a different policy) from continuing to exist.
Right. We can probably also assist people in knowing about violations as
well. If for example a dependency could have a license type associated
with someone trying to assemble a set of JARs could be notified of
meaning of doing so.
> I'd hate to see us build mechanism that enforced policy.
Definitely not enforce but certainly warnings. People can do what they
like. We can provide information vis-a-vis possible license violations
but ultimately individual projects are responsible for watching their
own asses.
> I'd like to lend a hand if this gets broken out into a separate project.
I can certainly strip out the dependency resolution code in Maven.
> Ted
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jason van Zyl" <ja...@zenplex.com>
> To: "Jakarta General List" <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 11:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Clear the air Re: ATTN: Maven developers [was: primary
> distribution location]
>
>
> > On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 14:35, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 02:29 PM, Nick Chalko wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I hope to have a proposal started on the Wiki tonight (PST). The
> Maven
> > > > repository
> > > > has been an essential tool for me for me.
> > > > The next step is to play nice with gump.
> > > > Then do help with dependencies
> > > > Also to make it easy for projects to "brand" themselves with version
> > > > and
> > > > dependency information.
> > > >
> > >
> > > JJAR in commons sandbox had some of these ideas in there... But can
> > > you build this into maven rather than in parallel?
> >
> > The stuff in Maven can certainly be split out. As I said to Nick, it can
> > already handle generation changes, evolution and the dependency
> > mechanism in Maven already deals with non-JAR artifacts like WAR files,
> > maven POMs, docs or whatever you want.
> >
> >
> > --
> > jvz.
> >
> > Jason van Zyl
> > jason@zenplex.com
> > http://tambora.zenplex.org
> >
> > In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
> > and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
> >
> > -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
--
jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jason@zenplex.com
http://tambora.zenplex.org
In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
-- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
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Re: Clear the air Re: ATTN: Maven developers [was: primary distribution
location]
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
>
>I'd hate to see us build mechanism that enforced policy.
>
>
+1
>I'd like to lend a hand if this gets broken out into a separate project.
>
>
+1
>Ted
>
>
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Re: Clear the air Re: ATTN: Maven developers [was: primary distribution location]
Posted by Ted Leung <tw...@sauria.com>.
I'd like to see this broken out of Maven / Centipede whatever, and put into
libraries that can be used independent of the build tools.
I also think that we need to plan for multiple repositories, whether they be
ASF, ibiblio, what have you.
There are two ideas going on in this thread. One is about the mechanism --
the repository, version management, dependency tracing, resource retreival
etc. The other is about policy -- what kind of stuff can be in a particular
repository. If the ASF ultimately decides to run its own repository with
ASF policy that's fine. That shouldn't prevent the iBiblio repository (with
a different policy) from continuing to exist.
I'd hate to see us build mechanism that enforced policy.
I'd like to lend a hand if this gets broken out into a separate project.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason van Zyl" <ja...@zenplex.com>
To: "Jakarta General List" <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: Clear the air Re: ATTN: Maven developers [was: primary
distribution location]
> On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 14:35, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 02:29 PM, Nick Chalko wrote:
> > >
> > > I hope to have a proposal started on the Wiki tonight (PST). The
Maven
> > > repository
> > > has been an essential tool for me for me.
> > > The next step is to play nice with gump.
> > > Then do help with dependencies
> > > Also to make it easy for projects to "brand" themselves with version
> > > and
> > > dependency information.
> > >
> >
> > JJAR in commons sandbox had some of these ideas in there... But can
> > you build this into maven rather than in parallel?
>
> The stuff in Maven can certainly be split out. As I said to Nick, it can
> already handle generation changes, evolution and the dependency
> mechanism in Maven already deals with non-JAR artifacts like WAR files,
> maven POMs, docs or whatever you want.
>
>
> --
> jvz.
>
> Jason van Zyl
> jason@zenplex.com
> http://tambora.zenplex.org
>
> In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
> and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
>
> -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
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Re: Clear the air Re: ATTN: Maven developers [was: primary distri
bution location]
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@zenplex.com>.
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 14:35, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 02:29 PM, Nick Chalko wrote:
> >
> > I hope to have a proposal started on the Wiki tonight (PST). The Maven
> > repository
> > has been an essential tool for me for me.
> > The next step is to play nice with gump.
> > Then do help with dependencies
> > Also to make it easy for projects to "brand" themselves with version
> > and
> > dependency information.
> >
>
> JJAR in commons sandbox had some of these ideas in there... But can
> you build this into maven rather than in parallel?
The stuff in Maven can certainly be split out. As I said to Nick, it can
already handle generation changes, evolution and the dependency
mechanism in Maven already deals with non-JAR artifacts like WAR files,
maven POMs, docs or whatever you want.
--
jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jason@zenplex.com
http://tambora.zenplex.org
In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
-- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
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