You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org> on 2002/11/02 04:53:53 UTC
Re: Skinning
On Sat, Nov 02, 2002 at 03:24:29PM +1100, Peter Donald wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Nov 2002 15:22, Peter Donald wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Can someone tell me the status of skinning? Basically what I want to do is
> > develope a skin that looks like like
> >
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/phoenix/
> >
> > And I guess I want to know how stable the dtds are for all the different
> > formats? Can I adopt the DTDs as they now exist and will they be stable or
> > should I adopt a stop-gap DTD and wait for the forrest DTDs to stabilize or
> > what?
I think the DTDs are pretty stable now. Any backwards-incompatible
change would IMO be done in a hypothetical document-v12.dtd, with an
associated v11-v12 translation stylesheet.
However, the sitemap -> skin contract (XSLT parameters) is not stable.
In fact I'm going to break it later today (make it simpler). Anyone with
a custom skin should also use a custom sitemap, and not rely on the
Forrest default.
> > Also is there likely to be too much change in the structure of the skins or
> > how they are installed or anything like that?
Nope.
> Oh and if it is all stable - anyone got any suggestions on what skin I start
> from?
avalon-tigris is apparently the most decent. It's been somewhere on my
todo list to pull it into Forrest, since the only half-decent skin
Forrest has is 'forrest-site'.
Actually, avalon-tigris works (sorta) with Forrest now. If you add the
following forrest.properties file to jakarta-avalon:
project.name=avalon
project.skin=avalon-tigris
forrest.validate.failonerror=false
forrest.validate.excludes=menu.xml
project.xdocs-dir=src/xdocs
Then type 'forrest'.. it breaks all over the place, but the docs that do
render look okay.
--Jeff
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Peter Donald
> *------------------------------------------------*
> | Trying is the first step to failure. |
> | So never try, Lisa - Homer Jay Simpson |
> *------------------------------------------------*
>
>
Re: Skinning
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@indexgeo.com.au>.
Steven Noels wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> > Jeff Turner wrote:
>
> >> All: as a policy for maintaining/hosting skins, how about we
> >> have these two conditions:
> >> - It must be used in a live, active project
> >> - At least one Forrest committer must 'sponsor' it, volunteering to
> >> update it when external files (skinconf, sitemap) change.
> >
> > +1
>
> +1
>
> >> Ie, I'd like to get rid of avalon-site, basic, jakarta-site and
> >> xml-apache-site, and just have forrest-site and avalon-tigris.
> >
> >
> > We already had voted to remove those skins so IMHO you can just
> > kill them.
>
> +1
>
> > Just keep "basic" around, because I found out that it's used already to
> > understand how skinning works.
>
> ... and David kind-of maintains it.
No he does not. The Forrest project said that *they* maintain
the "forrest-site" skin and the "basic" skin. All that i have
done with "basic" in the past, was to try to get it into a
useable state. It has become way out-of-sync now.
I vote +1 on Jeff's proposed skin policy above (with Nicola Ken's
proviso that we keep basic). However, i do not personally
volunteer to maintain either of those two Forrest skins. That is
a job for all of forrest-dev. We must ensure that both skins
reflect the current state of things.
In another thread, some people said that they would work on
a table-less skin. Perhaps that should eventually replace
"basic".
We should state the skin policy in documentation somewhere.
Does anyone know where?
--David
Re: Skinning
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> Jeff Turner wrote:
>
>> All: as a policy for maintaining/hosting skins, how about we have these
>> two conditions:
>> - It must be used in a live, active project
>> - At least one Forrest committer must 'sponsor' it, volunteering to
>> update it when external files (skinconf, sitemap) change.
>
>
> +1
+1
>> Ie, I'd like to get rid of avalon-site, basic, jakarta-site and
>> xml-apache-site, and just have forrest-site and avalon-tigris.
>
>
> We already had voted to remove those skins so IMHO you can just kill them.
+1
> Just keep "basic" around, because I found out that it's used already to
> understand how skinning works.
... and David kind-of maintains it.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
stevenn@outerthought.org stevenn@apache.org
Re: Skinning
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 09:13:10PM +1100, Peter Donald wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:53, Jeff Turner wrote:
>>
>>>However, the sitemap -> skin contract (XSLT parameters) is not stable.
>>>In fact I'm going to break it later today (make it simpler).
>>
>>kool. Do you think this is going to stabilize in the future? It would be kool
>>if it did ... and documentation accomodated the change ;)
>
> There's now just one {path} parameter. I don't foresee any need to break
> it in the future, and if it ever does it should be documented.
>
>>>Anyone with a custom skin should also use a custom sitemap, and not
>>>rely on the Forrest default.
>>
>>Personally I think this may be a bit of a mistake. You want to make it as
>>simple for end users to get going. A default sitemap that sets up default
>>mappings but allows some easy plugin point (sub-sitemap?) would be easy for
>>us cocoon illiterates ;) (Though I am reading Carstens book and it rocks!!!)
>>
>>>>Oh and if it is all stable - anyone got any suggestions on what skin I
>>>>start from?
>>>
>>>avalon-tigris is apparently the most decent. It's been somewhere on my
>>>todo list to pull it into Forrest, since the only half-decent skin
>>>Forrest has is 'forrest-site'.
>>
>>Well I have got it 90% working. If you want I can send it along. About
>>the only thing that it doesn't support that forrest does is search
>>control and that should be easy enough to add I assume.
>
> Yes please - or check into jakarta-avalon.
>
> All: as a policy for maintaining/hosting skins, how about we have these
> two conditions:
> - It must be used in a live, active project
> - At least one Forrest committer must 'sponsor' it, volunteering to
> update it when external files (skinconf, sitemap) change.
+1
> Ie, I'd like to get rid of avalon-site, basic, jakarta-site and
> xml-apache-site, and just have forrest-site and avalon-tigris.
We already had voted to remove those skins so IMHO you can just kill them.
Just keep "basic" around, because I found out that it's used already to
understand how skinning works.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Skinning
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 09:13:10PM +1100, Peter Donald wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:53, Jeff Turner wrote:
> > However, the sitemap -> skin contract (XSLT parameters) is not stable.
> > In fact I'm going to break it later today (make it simpler).
>
> kool. Do you think this is going to stabilize in the future? It would be kool
> if it did ... and documentation accomodated the change ;)
There's now just one {path} parameter. I don't foresee any need to break
it in the future, and if it ever does it should be documented.
> > Anyone with a custom skin should also use a custom sitemap, and not
> > rely on the Forrest default.
>
> Personally I think this may be a bit of a mistake. You want to make it as
> simple for end users to get going. A default sitemap that sets up default
> mappings but allows some easy plugin point (sub-sitemap?) would be easy for
> us cocoon illiterates ;) (Though I am reading Carstens book and it rocks!!!)
>
> > > Oh and if it is all stable - anyone got any suggestions on what skin I
> > > start from?
> >
> > avalon-tigris is apparently the most decent. It's been somewhere on my
> > todo list to pull it into Forrest, since the only half-decent skin
> > Forrest has is 'forrest-site'.
>
> Well I have got it 90% working. If you want I can send it along. About
> the only thing that it doesn't support that forrest does is search
> control and that should be easy enough to add I assume.
Yes please - or check into jakarta-avalon.
All: as a policy for maintaining/hosting skins, how about we have these
two conditions:
- It must be used in a live, active project
- At least one Forrest committer must 'sponsor' it, volunteering to
update it when external files (skinconf, sitemap) change.
Ie, I'd like to get rid of avalon-site, basic, jakarta-site and
xml-apache-site, and just have forrest-site and avalon-tigris.
--Jeff
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Peter Donald
> *------------------------------------------------*
> | You can't wake a person who is pretending |
> | to be asleep. -Navajo Proverb. |
> *------------------------------------------------*
>
>
Re: Skinning
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:53, Jeff Turner wrote:
> However, the sitemap -> skin contract (XSLT parameters) is not stable.
> In fact I'm going to break it later today (make it simpler).
kool. Do you think this is going to stabilize in the future? It would be kool
if it did ... and documentation accomodated the change ;)
> Anyone with
> a custom skin should also use a custom sitemap, and not rely on the
> Forrest default.
Personally I think this may be a bit of a mistake. You want to make it as
simple for end users to get going. A default sitemap that sets up default
mappings but allows some easy plugin point (sub-sitemap?) would be easy for
us cocoon illiterates ;) (Though I am reading Carstens book and it rocks!!!)
> > Oh and if it is all stable - anyone got any suggestions on what skin I
> > start from?
>
> avalon-tigris is apparently the most decent. It's been somewhere on my
> todo list to pull it into Forrest, since the only half-decent skin
> Forrest has is 'forrest-site'.
Well I have got it 90% working. If you want I can send it along. About the
only thing that it doesn't support that forrest does is search control and
that should be easy enough to add I assume.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
*------------------------------------------------*
| You can't wake a person who is pretending |
| to be asleep. -Navajo Proverb. |
*------------------------------------------------*