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Posted to dev@httpd.apache.org by Daniel Gruno <ru...@cord.dk> on 2012/05/23 20:07:11 UTC
Comment system, take two and a half
Since people have begun talking about the idea of hosting/using this
system within the ASF, I've added some more kinks to the system now.
Those of you who have created an account (or those who create one and
let me know) will now see a "moderate" link when they are viewing
comments while logged in. This will take them to a new moderator site,
where it's possible to track the latest activity, delete threads and
track specific origins (origin tracking only applies to posts made after
I revamped the moderator system, so old posts can't be tracked).
An origin is basically a digest of an IP address (to both preserve the
privacy policy and get rid of any trouble with IPv4/IPv6 mingling), and
it allows you to either ban an origin from posting, view and delete any
comments made by that origin or simply nuke everything ever posted by
that origin. You can also opt in or out of receiving email notifications
when a new post is being made (and opting in/out on a specific page is
in the works). If you like, you can also register new sites to be used
with the comment system.
If you want to test out the features, be my guest and spam away on the
trunk pages, so you can nuke your own origin to bits :)
If this moves to infra, the plan is to use the committer IDs as your new
login, so all committers essentially become moderators, but will still
have to opt in in order to receive email notifications of new posts on
the site (unless it's a reply to their own post, in which case they'll
get a reply anyway)
With regards,
Daniel.
Re: Comment system, take two and a half
Posted by Lucien Gentis <lu...@medecine.uhp-nancy.fr>.
Le 28 mai 2012 à 00:20, Daniel Gruno a écrit :
> Most of the kinks in the new comment system have now been sorted, as has
> most of the question on the actual implementation of it. However, a few
> questions remain, that I'd like some input on if possible:
>
> - Should we keep the various translations separate, or should it be one
> unified commentary? i.e. should the French pages separate comments from
> the English pages, or should they all just roll with the same comments?
>
> We could insist that all comments be made in English unless they are
> related to a specific translations, and as long as we keep the
> translations up to date with the suggestions and delete comments as they
> are implemented, there shouldn't be much clutter.
>
>
I suggest this, if it technically possible :
- All comments posted in english pages are related to the content of the doc itself, so all localized pages are concerned by this comment and should display it (same as PHP doc)
- When a comment is posted in a localized page, like Daniel says, "insist that all comments be made in English unless they are related to a specific translations", but also that, if commenter wishes his/her comment to be displayed in all pages, it has to be written in english, and posted in the english page, and that if the comment is posted in the current page, in the relevant language, it will only be displayed in this current page
Lucien Gentis
SIRET
Faculté de Médecine - Nancy
lucien.gentis@univ-lorraine.fr
03 83 68 30 62
Re: Comment system, take two and a half
Posted by Daniel Ruggeri <DR...@primary.net>.
On 5/29/2012 9:35 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
> In my view of this, comments should *not* be considered a permanent
> part of the document. Either they get incorporated into the document
> itself, or they get flushed. I really don't want to see comments
> sticking around forever on a doc. I consider them to be more of a
> means of contributing to the doc effort.
Big +1 to this.
--
Daniel Ruggeri
Re: Comment system, take two and a half
Posted by Daniel Ruggeri <DR...@primary.net>.
On 5/29/2012 9:35 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
> In my view of this, comments should *not* be considered a permanent
> part of the document. Either they get incorporated into the document
> itself, or they get flushed. I really don't want to see comments
> sticking around forever on a doc. I consider them to be more of a
> means of contributing to the doc effort.
Big +1 to this.
--
Daniel Ruggeri
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Re: Comment system, take two and a half
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On May 29, 2012, at 5:04 AM, Graham Leggett wrote:
> On 29 May 2012, at 8:50 AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>
>>> Each branch different, 2.2 & 2.4 have some big differences between
>>> them in various areas. My 2 cents anyway.
>> What I'm perhaps more curious to get sorted out is whether we should
>> consider the trunk and the 2.4 documentation separate entities, or
>> whether they should be linked, comment-wise. Currently, they are pretty
>> much identical, but in the future it may be a good idea to keep them
>> separate as we move towards 2.5/2.6.
>
> My gut feel is that trunk shouldn't have comments at all - trunk is fluid, and changes without warning. Comments are very likely to get stale and become more of a problem than a help.
I've come around to thinking that they should be separate. I think it'll be useful to have comments on trunk, but, particularly on trunk, there needs to be no expectation that comments will stick around for any time at all.
In my view of this, comments should *not* be considered a permanent part of the document. Either they get incorporated into the document itself, or they get flushed. I really don't want to see comments sticking around forever on a doc. I consider them to be more of a means of contributing to the doc effort.
--
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com :: @rbowen
rbowen@apache.org
Comment system, take two and three quarters
Posted by Daniel Gruno <ru...@cord.dk>.
Since it's generally better to say too much than say too little, here's
an update on what's going on with the commentary business for the docs.
The work on moving the new comment system to infra is now in progress,
and hopefully it should be up and running on comments.apache.org within
a reasonable time-frame.
When it's prepped and ready, it is my plan to propose a vote on adopting
the comment system to the 2.2 and 2.4 versions of our documentation as
well as the current implementation in trunk. Thus, anyone who still
wants to give the system a test spin before it launches are free to
register an account and get set up as moderator. Just click on the "log
in" link in any comment section in trunk and create an account (don't
click the committer link, it doesn't work yet).
As we're nearing a possible launch of the system, I wanted to get a few
things out of the way, so we can just vote on the issue and not have to
discuss all these matters then. If you have any comments, suggestions or
objections to the decisions below, please speak up:
- A privacy policy has been made for the comment system. It can be found
at http://c.apaste.info/privacy.html and it's pretty short and straight
forward.
- Comments will not be restricted to their separate translated versions
of the documents, but will be unified. for example, core.html.en and
core.html.fr will share the same comments. Most of us do not speak a
whole lot of the languages we have translated our docs into, and I think
it's only fair that users are recommended to post their comments in
English. If anyone wants to write up a brief introduction to how
comments should be made, feel free to do so :)
- 2.2, 2.4 and trunk will have their own separate threads. If comments
need to be shuffled around or copied from one branch to another, we can
probably do that manually.
- Every Apache committer using their Apache credentials will potentially
be able to moderate the comments. This is on purpose. We want to bring
Apache together on projects like this, and being able to pool our
resources in preventing spam and answering questions only seems like a
good thing.
With regards,
Daniel.
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Re: Comment system, take two and a half
Posted by Daniel Gruno <ru...@cord.dk>.
Aaand that wasn't Lucien's comment that showed up in that email.
Apologies, my email client seems to be playing tricks with me :)
What I was replying to was this:
if commenter wishes his/her comment to be displayed in all pages, it has
to be written in english, and posted in the english page, and that if
the comment is posted in the current page, in the relevant language, it
will only be displayed in this current page
With regards,
Daniel.
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Re: Comment system, take two and a half
Posted by Daniel Gruno <ru...@cord.dk>.
On 05/30/2012 12:03 AM, William A. Rowe Jr. wrote:
> I think we should keep them, all. That said, I think they need to be most recent
> first, and it would be really cool to fade them from black to very light gray
> over time unless they are voted up as 'useful info' within the most recent year.
Whether we keep them all or not is really not my concern. You can do as
you please; Delete comments when they are implemented or off-topic, or
you can keep them. I don't really care that much about the nitty gritty
details of how you want to proceed (read: It's not a show-stopper for
implementing comments whether we disagree on keeping them forever or
not, and it's perhaps better suited for when we actually have some
comments to look at and discuss the validity of).
I've changed the ordering of the comments, so the newest comments now
appear first, except for replies, thus the new order would be something
like:
- Newest comment here (1 hour ago)
- Older comment here (4 days ago)
- - Reply 1 to old comment (4 days ago)
- - Reply 2 to old comment (2 days ago)
- - Reply 3 to old comment (12 hours ago)
- Oldest comment here. (6 days ago)
As for rating them, I've added a simple rating system where people can
+1 or -1 a comment, and if we, in the near future, decide we want these
ratings to have an impact on how the comments are displayed, then we'll
just make that adjustment once/if it makes sense to do so. However, I
don't really see that as something we need to decide on right now, as
it's better to view this in a bigger scope once comments have been made
on pages and we can see if this'll make sense to implement or not.
On 05/30/2012 10:28 AM, Lucien Gentis wrote:
>
> I think it's going to be very difficult, technically, to implement the stuff you want. It's either going to be "each translation has its own comment thread" or it's going to be "all translations share the same comments". I'm sure the human mind can differentiate between comments that are meant for a specific translation, and comments that are meant as a general comment to the overall meaning of the documentation.
> At the moment, the consensus is leaning towards just making it simple and getting all translations to use the same comment thread. If there's no big objections to this, I'll assume that's what we're going to go for, at least initially. We can ALWAYS change the details of this as we go along.
>
I think it's going to be very difficult, technically, to implement the
stuff you want. It's either going to be "each translation has its own
comment thread" or it's going to be "all translations share the same
comments". I'm sure the human mind can differentiate between comments
that are meant for a specific translation, and comments that are meant
as a general comment to the overall meaning of the documentation.
At the moment, the consensus is leaning towards just making it simple
and getting all translations to use the same comment thread. If there's
no big objections to this, I'll assume that's what we're going to go
for, at least initially. We can ALWAYS change the details of this as we
go along.
With regards,
Daniel.
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Re: Comment system, take two and a half
Posted by "William A. Rowe Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
On 5/29/2012 4:04 AM, Graham Leggett wrote:
> On 29 May 2012, at 8:50 AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>
>>> Each branch different, 2.2 & 2.4 have some big differences between
>>> them in various areas. My 2 cents anyway.
>> What I'm perhaps more curious to get sorted out is whether we should
>> consider the trunk and the 2.4 documentation separate entities, or
>> whether they should be linked, comment-wise. Currently, they are pretty
>> much identical, but in the future it may be a good idea to keep them
>> separate as we move towards 2.5/2.6.
>
> My gut feel is that trunk shouldn't have comments at all - trunk is fluid, and changes without warning. Comments are very likely to get stale and become more of a problem than a help.
I think we should keep them, all. That said, I think they need to be most recent
first, and it would be really cool to fade them from black to very light gray
over time unless they are voted up as 'useful info' within the most recent year.
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Re: Comment system, take two and a half
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On May 29, 2012, at 5:04 AM, Graham Leggett wrote:
> On 29 May 2012, at 8:50 AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>
>>> Each branch different, 2.2 & 2.4 have some big differences between
>>> them in various areas. My 2 cents anyway.
>> What I'm perhaps more curious to get sorted out is whether we should
>> consider the trunk and the 2.4 documentation separate entities, or
>> whether they should be linked, comment-wise. Currently, they are pretty
>> much identical, but in the future it may be a good idea to keep them
>> separate as we move towards 2.5/2.6.
>
> My gut feel is that trunk shouldn't have comments at all - trunk is fluid, and changes without warning. Comments are very likely to get stale and become more of a problem than a help.
I've come around to thinking that they should be separate. I think it'll be useful to have comments on trunk, but, particularly on trunk, there needs to be no expectation that comments will stick around for any time at all.
In my view of this, comments should *not* be considered a permanent part of the document. Either they get incorporated into the document itself, or they get flushed. I really don't want to see comments sticking around forever on a doc. I consider them to be more of a means of contributing to the doc effort.
--
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com :: @rbowen
rbowen@apache.org
Re: Comment system, take two and a half
Posted by Graham Leggett <mi...@sharp.fm>.
On 29 May 2012, at 8:50 AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>> Each branch different, 2.2 & 2.4 have some big differences between
>> them in various areas. My 2 cents anyway.
> What I'm perhaps more curious to get sorted out is whether we should
> consider the trunk and the 2.4 documentation separate entities, or
> whether they should be linked, comment-wise. Currently, they are pretty
> much identical, but in the future it may be a good idea to keep them
> separate as we move towards 2.5/2.6.
My gut feel is that trunk shouldn't have comments at all - trunk is fluid, and changes without warning. Comments are very likely to get stale and become more of a problem than a help.
Regards,
Graham
--
Re: Comment system, take two and a half
Posted by Graham Leggett <mi...@sharp.fm>.
On 29 May 2012, at 8:50 AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>> Each branch different, 2.2 & 2.4 have some big differences between
>> them in various areas. My 2 cents anyway.
> What I'm perhaps more curious to get sorted out is whether we should
> consider the trunk and the 2.4 documentation separate entities, or
> whether they should be linked, comment-wise. Currently, they are pretty
> much identical, but in the future it may be a good idea to keep them
> separate as we move towards 2.5/2.6.
My gut feel is that trunk shouldn't have comments at all - trunk is fluid, and changes without warning. Comments are very likely to get stale and become more of a problem than a help.
Regards,
Graham
--
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Re: Comment system, take two and a half
Posted by Daniel Gruno <ru...@cord.dk>.
On 05/28/2012 09:38 PM, Gregg Smith wrote:
> Each branch different, 2.2 & 2.4 have some big differences between
> them in various areas. My 2 cents anyway.
What I'm perhaps more curious to get sorted out is whether we should
consider the trunk and the 2.4 documentation separate entities, or
whether they should be linked, comment-wise. Currently, they are pretty
much identical, but in the future it may be a good idea to keep them
separate as we move towards 2.5/2.6.
With regards,
Daniel.
Re: Comment system, take two and a half
Posted by Daniel Gruno <ru...@cord.dk>.
On 05/28/2012 09:38 PM, Gregg Smith wrote:
> Each branch different, 2.2 & 2.4 have some big differences between
> them in various areas. My 2 cents anyway.
What I'm perhaps more curious to get sorted out is whether we should
consider the trunk and the 2.4 documentation separate entities, or
whether they should be linked, comment-wise. Currently, they are pretty
much identical, but in the future it may be a good idea to keep them
separate as we move towards 2.5/2.6.
With regards,
Daniel.
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Re: Comment system, take two and a half
Posted by Gregg Smith <gl...@gknw.net>.
On 5/27/2012 3:20 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> We could insist that all comments be made in English unless they are
> related to a specific translations, and as long as we keep the
> translations up to date with the suggestions and delete comments as they
> are implemented, there shouldn't be much clutter.
>
>
1 comment system, should request they be in English. Examples posted
will benefit everyone this way. And if they post in some other language,
people can always use one of the online translators on them.
> - When this moves to 2.4 and possibly 2.2, should we keep each branch
> separate, or should we unify it? That is, should f.x. core.html show the
> same comments for 2.2, 2.4 and trunk combined, or should they be kept
> separate?
Each branch different, 2.2 & 2.4 have some big differences between them
in various areas. My 2 cents anyway.
Regards
Gregg
Re: Comment system, take two and a half
Posted by Tim Bannister <is...@jellybaby.net>.
On 27 May 2012, at 23:20, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> - When this moves to 2.4 and possibly 2.2, should we keep each branch separate, or should we unify it? That is, should f.x. core.html show the same comments for 2.2, 2.4 and trunk combined, or should they be kept separate?
>
> I'm leaning towards the latter myself, as a lot of pages really have changed quite a bit, and it'd become confusing if someone is suddenly commenting on a 2.2 issue and it shows up in the 2.4 docs.
I like the idea of keeping them separate.
For each new branch, it would be nice to have a way for someone to bring over a filtered set of the existing comments that are still relevant. I think that would actually get used — it's a task you can do without knowing much about how the httpd project works.
--
Tim Bannister – isoma@jellybaby.net
Re: Comment system, take two and a half
Posted by Daniel Gruno <ru...@cord.dk>.
Most of the kinks in the new comment system have now been sorted, as has
most of the question on the actual implementation of it. However, a few
questions remain, that I'd like some input on if possible:
- Should we keep the various translations separate, or should it be one
unified commentary? i.e. should the French pages separate comments from
the English pages, or should they all just roll with the same comments?
We could insist that all comments be made in English unless they are
related to a specific translations, and as long as we keep the
translations up to date with the suggestions and delete comments as they
are implemented, there shouldn't be much clutter.
- When this moves to 2.4 and possibly 2.2, should we keep each branch
separate, or should we unify it? That is, should f.x. core.html show the
same comments for 2.2, 2.4 and trunk combined, or should they be kept
separate?
I'm leaning towards the latter myself, as a lot of pages really have
changed quite a bit, and it'd become confusing if someone is suddenly
commenting on a 2.2 issue and it shows up in the 2.4 docs.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
With regards,
Daniel.
On 05/23/2012 08:07 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> Since people have begun talking about the idea of hosting/using this
> system within the ASF, I've added some more kinks to the system now.
>
> Those of you who have created an account (or those who create one and
> let me know) will now see a "moderate" link when they are viewing
> comments while logged in. This will take them to a new moderator site,
> where it's possible to track the latest activity, delete threads and
> track specific origins (origin tracking only applies to posts made after
> I revamped the moderator system, so old posts can't be tracked).
>
> An origin is basically a digest of an IP address (to both preserve the
> privacy policy and get rid of any trouble with IPv4/IPv6 mingling), and
> it allows you to either ban an origin from posting, view and delete any
> comments made by that origin or simply nuke everything ever posted by
> that origin. You can also opt in or out of receiving email notifications
> when a new post is being made (and opting in/out on a specific page is
> in the works). If you like, you can also register new sites to be used
> with the comment system.
>
> If you want to test out the features, be my guest and spam away on the
> trunk pages, so you can nuke your own origin to bits :)
>
> If this moves to infra, the plan is to use the committer IDs as your new
> login, so all committers essentially become moderators, but will still
> have to opt in in order to receive email notifications of new posts on
> the site (unless it's a reply to their own post, in which case they'll
> get a reply anyway)
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
>
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Re: Comment system, take two and a half
Posted by Daniel Gruno <ru...@cord.dk>.
Most of the kinks in the new comment system have now been sorted, as has
most of the question on the actual implementation of it. However, a few
questions remain, that I'd like some input on if possible:
- Should we keep the various translations separate, or should it be one
unified commentary? i.e. should the French pages separate comments from
the English pages, or should they all just roll with the same comments?
We could insist that all comments be made in English unless they are
related to a specific translations, and as long as we keep the
translations up to date with the suggestions and delete comments as they
are implemented, there shouldn't be much clutter.
- When this moves to 2.4 and possibly 2.2, should we keep each branch
separate, or should we unify it? That is, should f.x. core.html show the
same comments for 2.2, 2.4 and trunk combined, or should they be kept
separate?
I'm leaning towards the latter myself, as a lot of pages really have
changed quite a bit, and it'd become confusing if someone is suddenly
commenting on a 2.2 issue and it shows up in the 2.4 docs.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
With regards,
Daniel.
On 05/23/2012 08:07 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> Since people have begun talking about the idea of hosting/using this
> system within the ASF, I've added some more kinks to the system now.
>
> Those of you who have created an account (or those who create one and
> let me know) will now see a "moderate" link when they are viewing
> comments while logged in. This will take them to a new moderator site,
> where it's possible to track the latest activity, delete threads and
> track specific origins (origin tracking only applies to posts made after
> I revamped the moderator system, so old posts can't be tracked).
>
> An origin is basically a digest of an IP address (to both preserve the
> privacy policy and get rid of any trouble with IPv4/IPv6 mingling), and
> it allows you to either ban an origin from posting, view and delete any
> comments made by that origin or simply nuke everything ever posted by
> that origin. You can also opt in or out of receiving email notifications
> when a new post is being made (and opting in/out on a specific page is
> in the works). If you like, you can also register new sites to be used
> with the comment system.
>
> If you want to test out the features, be my guest and spam away on the
> trunk pages, so you can nuke your own origin to bits :)
>
> If this moves to infra, the plan is to use the committer IDs as your new
> login, so all committers essentially become moderators, but will still
> have to opt in in order to receive email notifications of new posts on
> the site (unless it's a reply to their own post, in which case they'll
> get a reply anyway)
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
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>