RE: case studies (site updates)

[Robert <rm...@bull-enterprises.com>]

Done. I've updated the menu per Leo's email in the archive as well. The
'Developing with Avalon' section needs better, more appropriate links,
but they are there. I was wondering if the stuff in the history(?)
section on Avalon concerning the IOC patterns and such should be moved
to the 'Prerequisites' page? 

I also need a project structure page. I think you guys are changing
things just enough at the moment that I'm not totally sure what to put
here :-) The src directories in CVS are, seemingly, all weird at the
moment, so I'll let you guys tell me what to put in this section.

I'm not entirely sure where you guys want me to go from here. I don't
want to jump around too much, so let me know what else you would like to
see with the Avalon stuff, and when you want me to start sending in
these as patches.

- Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@apache.org] 
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:27 AM
To: Avalon Developers List
Subject: Re: case studies

On Sun, 19 May 2002 15:19, Robert wrote:
> I'm working on the website still and started on the case studies
> section. Should we have this broken down into two sections, one for
> opensource (cocoon, james, etc) and one for commercial, or just put
them
> all in one? Right now I have an <s1> section for open source (first)
and
> one for commercial/others.

Up to you. I have no real preference either way. If the page starts to
get too 
big we can break it down into multiple pages (or have one central index
page 
that go to a per case study page). Do whatever looks good :)

> Also, I was going through the menu suggestions that Leo sent me
>
(http://www.mail-archive.com/avalon-dev%40jakarta.apache.org/msg08022.ht
> ml) and noticed Cornerstone and Testlet on the list. Are these two not
> 'gone'?

Testlet is deprecated and basically gone. Cornerstone is still around
and 
probably will remain for a while. However I could see it merging into 
excalibur at a later point in time.

-- 
Cheers,

Peter Donald


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Re: case studies (site updates)

[Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>]

Hi,

On Sun, 19 May 2002 17:35, Robert wrote:
> -- Is there some kind of status for the various sub-projects? Excalibur
> especially has a ton of items that I certainly have no idea what the
> statuses are (Cache, Instrument, Merlin, etc.). I think it would be
> helpful if we had something that listed these and along with a short
> description, with link to the appropriate detailed pages, a status of
> 'production', 'inwork', 'refactoring', 'whatever' would be helpful. One
> can get lost trying to figure out what is ready to use and what isn't.

I don't think any one really knows about all the components. What we can do is 
get the basic infrastructure in place and then poke the authours of the 
components to fill out the details of each component.

-- 
Cheers,

Peter Donald


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RE: case studies (site updates)

[Robert <rm...@bull-enterprises.com>]

Comments inline to your inline...

-----Original Message-----
From: Leo Simons [mailto:leosimons@apache.org] 
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 2:24 AM
To: Avalon Developers List
Subject: RE: case studies (site updates)

On Sun, 2002-05-19 at 07:58, Robert wrote:
> Done. I've updated the menu per Leo's email in the archive as well.

you rock!

-- Thanks :-)

> The
> 'Developing with Avalon' section needs better, more appropriate links,
> but they are there. I was wondering if the stuff in the history(?)
> section on Avalon concerning the IOC patterns and such should be moved
> to the 'Prerequisites' page? 

I think not. Rather, the page serves as a reference to the "avalon
charter", talking in jakarta terms here. "Developing with Avalon"
doesn't serve as reference. Maybe the page should be renamed "Project
Charter".

-- Will do.

> I also need a project structure page. I think you guys are changing
> things just enough at the moment that I'm not totally sure what to put
> here :-)

Not really...basically what I envision is some page where we can direct
people to when they ask "Where should component X go? Is there a place
for my submission X? Phoenix asks for class X, but I cannot find it in
its CVS?"

-- I think this will require a bit more thought and planning, but I
certainly see what you are thinking of.

> I'm not entirely sure where you guys want me to go from here. I don't
> want to jump around too much, so let me know what else you would like
to
> see with the Avalon stuff, and when you want me to start sending in
> these as patches.

We really like your jumpin' round ;) And patches are welcome right now
(assuming you didn't break too much, and it doesn't look like you did,
there's already some big improvements!).

-- OK, I'll make sure I didn't screw up the book, and index pages first,
then submit them. I'll wait just a few days on the ones concerning the
updates code examples, so I have them right.

One thing I'd like to see is getting the Developing with Avalon thing
reorganised and indexed so it is more useful as an online guide, rather
than as a book.

A common question: "Okay, I get all this, I want to use avalon and the
avalon patterns, but now...

(pick)

- which interfaces should I implement for my specific service A?
- why should I use configuration/parameters/context; why not just put my
configuration in context?
- etc"

-- I hear ya!! I would really like to see this kind of thing (I'm
working on something similar with my companies site as well). 

Basically, the answers to many common questions are on the website,
they're just difficult to find. We need an analysis of what those common
questions are, and how to refactor docs so it is easier to find answers.
After we've done that, step two is to list those questions as such and
provide links to the answers in the documentation (we call such a
feature a FAQ).

-- A FAQ would certainly complement the above user guide. I certainly
have many questions myself :-)

If you want more work, keep asking! I can think of loads...

-- I'll bet!
-- Is there some kind of status for the various sub-projects? Excalibur
especially has a ton of items that I certainly have no idea what the
statuses are (Cache, Instrument, Merlin, etc.). I think it would be
helpful if we had something that listed these and along with a short
description, with link to the appropriate detailed pages, a status of
'production', 'inwork', 'refactoring', 'whatever' would be helpful. One
can get lost trying to figure out what is ready to use and what isn't.

- Leo



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RE: case studies (site updates)

[Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>]

On Sun, 2002-05-19 at 07:58, Robert wrote:
> Done. I've updated the menu per Leo's email in the archive as well.

you rock!

> The
> 'Developing with Avalon' section needs better, more appropriate links,
> but they are there. I was wondering if the stuff in the history(?)
> section on Avalon concerning the IOC patterns and such should be moved
> to the 'Prerequisites' page? 

I think not. Rather, the page serves as a reference to the "avalon
charter", talking in jakarta terms here. "Developing with Avalon"
doesn't serve as reference. Maybe the page should be renamed "Project
Charter".

> I also need a project structure page. I think you guys are changing
> things just enough at the moment that I'm not totally sure what to put
> here :-)

Not really...basically what I envision is some page where we can direct
people to when they ask "Where should component X go? Is there a place
for my submission X? Phoenix asks for class X, but I cannot find it in
its CVS?"

> I'm not entirely sure where you guys want me to go from here. I don't
> want to jump around too much, so let me know what else you would like to
> see with the Avalon stuff, and when you want me to start sending in
> these as patches.

We really like your jumpin' round ;) And patches are welcome right now
(assuming you didn't break too much, and it doesn't look like you did,
there's already some big improvements!).

One thing I'd like to see is getting the Developing with Avalon thing
reorganised and indexed so it is more useful as an online guide, rather
than as a book.

A common question: "Okay, I get all this, I want to use avalon and the
avalon patterns, but now...

(pick)

- which interfaces should I implement for my specific service A?
- why should I use configuration/parameters/context; why not just put my
configuration in context?
- etc"

Basically, the answers to many common questions are on the website,
they're just difficult to find. We need an analysis of what those common
questions are, and how to refactor docs so it is easier to find answers.
After we've done that, step two is to list those questions as such and
provide links to the answers in the documentation (we call such a
feature a FAQ).

If you want more work, keep asking! I can think of loads...

- Leo



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