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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by Michael Jouravlev <jm...@gmail.com> on 2007/06/29 01:56:21 UTC
What is Tomcat 6 status?
Tomcat 6 status is not quite clear from Tomcat website. I want to use
the latest possible release because we need to lock on; upgrading
later down the road would incur administrative complications.
Tomcat 6 docs page says that "Apache Tomcat version 6.0 implements the
Servlet 2.5 and JavaServer Pages 2.1 specifications", how complete
this implementation is? Should I assume that because build 6.0.13 is
not explicitly marked as alpha or beta, it is a stable build?
"Which version" page does not really clear things up, even more,
Tomcat 5 seems like the best choice since it is stable and relatively
up-to-date. Entries for Tomcat 4 and Tomcat 3 recommend to upgrade to
Tomcat 5, but not to Tomcat 6.
To summarize, I would prefer a most recent yet relatively stable
version. From administrative point of view, it is much simpler to
upgrade to a next point version than to a next major release, so I
would rather start using v. 6 if it is stable enough. Any advice? I
searched Tomcat mailing list for "Tomcat 6 status" and did not find
anything specific.
Also, do I have to download JSTL implementation libs separately? Saw
these libs in webapp samples folder. Any reason why these are not
included as standard libs? I understand that JSTL is just a spec, but
servlets and JSPs are specs as well. The whole point in Tomcat that it
_implements_ SRV and JSP specs. Why JSTL is not implemented by
default?
Also, what is up with JSF support? tomcat/lib directory does not
provide even interface libs for JSF. Not that I am going to use JSF, I
just wanted to find out what the status is. RELEASE-NOTES in the
download zip file do not help much.
Thanks,
Michael.
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RE: What is Tomcat 6 status?
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: Hassan Schroeder [mailto:hassan.schroeder@gmail.com]
> Subject: Re: What is Tomcat 6 status?
>
> I don't believe that's true. The JSP spec defines Tag
> Libraries, and an Expression Language (EL) that's used
> by the JSTL -- but I don't see a definition of the JSTL
> features in either JSP 2.0 or 2.1...
Correct. From Sun's JSTL page:
"The JSTL 1.2 Maintenace [sic] Release aligns with the Unified
Expression Language (EL) that is being delivered as part of the
JavaServer Pages (JSP) 2.1 specification."
As you said, it's the EL that's part of JSP 2.1, not JSTL.
I can think of several reasons why Tomcat doesn't include JSTL
libraries:
1) Different implementations may produce slightly different results;
Tomcat should not lock developers into a specific one.
2) Different webapps may require different versions of JSTL.
3) Apache may not have a redistribution license for non-Jakarta
implementations (e.g., the Sun ones that are part of Java EE and JWSDP).
Finally, a note from the Jakarta Taglibs web page:
"Versions 1.0 and 1.1 of the JSTL specification are implemented here.
Version 1.2 is not and there are currently no plans for JSTL 1.2 to be
implemented at Jakarta - instead we advise you to investigate the
implementation available from the Glassfish project under the Common
Development and Distribution License (CDDL)."
- Chuck
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Re: What is Tomcat 6 status?
Posted by Hassan Schroeder <ha...@gmail.com>.
On 6/29/07, Michael Jouravlev <jm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Struts is not part of JSP 2.1 spec, but JSTL is. Therefore I don't
> understand why Tomcat 6 implements some JSP 2.1 features like standard
> JSP actions, and does not implement JSTL, which is PART OF JSP SPEC.
I don't believe that's true. The JSP spec defines Tag Libraries, and an
Expression Language (EL) that's used by the JSTL -- but I don't see a
definition of the JSTL features in either JSP 2.0 or 2.1...
But I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong :-)
--
Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder@gmail.com
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Re: What is Tomcat 6 status?
Posted by Michael Jouravlev <jm...@gmail.com>.
On 6/29/07, Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
> As for not including every concievable library and framework, thank goodness
> or else it would be huge. TC supports a huge array of frameworks. Many
> people dont use tags, some like Struts, others prefer a pure MVC model...
> etc etc.
Struts is not part of JSP 2.1 spec, but JSTL is. Therefore I don't
understand why Tomcat 6 implements some JSP 2.1 features like standard
JSP actions, and does not implement JSTL, which is PART OF JSP SPEC.
It is not a biggie to add two jars to app lib directory, I am just
curious why Tomcat 6 continues the strange practice of Tomcat 5, which
also does not implement JSTL despite the fact that JSTL is part of
JSP2.0 spec too. Tomcat is a reference implementation of SRV/JSP spec,
while jstl.jar and standard.jar contain reference implementation of
JSTL. Why these jars are not bundled with Tomcat is beyond me.
In regards to JSF, I am dropping my question because I just realized
that JSF is not part of JSP spec, these specs are just... um...
"aligned".
Thanks everybody for clearing things out with Tomcat 6 stability, I
guess I will chose it for our new development and deployment. We still
use Tomcat 4 for deployment.
Michael.
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Re: What is Tomcat 6 status?
Posted by Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za>.
I just take a very pragmatic view.
TC6 besides implementing new specs which I believe are targeted more at
application servers than anything else, involved a major structural revamp.
Although I havnt found any problems with it, I treat it as new, and prefer
to run production stuff on 5.5.23.
As for not getting support... this mailing list is absolutely fantastic, I
dont think they not going to help you if you running 5.5..... its not
microsoft ;)
Also all the more reason to run one version back, because if you not on the
bleeding edge, you sure to find the info with just a google.
Then there are other practical things, cant talk for Eclipse, but Netbeans
6, that supports TC6, is just not ready, its as quirky as hell, even on
GlassFish. So if you want stability there, stick to the TC5.5.X for a while
longer.
As for not including every concievable library and framework, thank goodness
or else it would be huge. TC supports a huge array of frameworks. Many
people dont use tags, some like Struts, others prefer a pure MVC model...
etc etc.
There is no real "lock in", TC is so easy to install and test on, having
both TC6 and TC5.5.23 on your test system is no big deal, and moving test
code between them, very easy.
Its not a stupid question, I just think you looking in the wrong place...
when you consider the framework you want to use with TC, then choose very
carefully... thats where the "lock in" happens.
Personally I think a framework like VWP and JSF is a nightmare to work with,
others will love it, maybe you like Struts, maybe Spring, maybe Geronimo and
TC, may JBoss & TC, maybe JSTL, maybe JSF... thats where you need to do your
homework.
To answer you JSTL question, and its probably where all the confusion is
coming from, when you make your JSP, typically an application like NB, gives
you a template, and you are seeing your first framework advertised, ie SUN
is saying JSTL is cool, why dont you use it, but you still need to set it
up, so you need to add something like this to web.xml
<jsp-config>
<taglib>
<taglib-uri>http://java.sun.com/jstl/core</taglib-uri>
<taglib-location>/WEB-INF/c.tld</taglib-location>
</taglib>
</jsp-config>
and include the JSTL.jar, the Standard.jar, and the c.tld from the JSTL tag
framework.... why they dont make it actually work, beats me because the libs
are actually all in Netbeans already, but its better to download the whole
thing anyway, because there are tags for everything you can think of.
TC is not doing that... your DEV tool is.
TC supports ANY tags... that is just SUN's advert.
Now you could just delete that stuff and use java tags like
<%
String myString= "SomeStuff";
//Wrtie a normal java loop, get some some stuff from a bean.... etc etc.
%>
..... TC is the container.... the framework you want is up to you.
No matter what you do... TC is brilliant, but frameworks, well they come and
go...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Jouravlev" <jm...@gmail.com>
To: "Tomcat Users List" <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 1:56 AM
Subject: What is Tomcat 6 status?
> Tomcat 6 status is not quite clear from Tomcat website. I want to use
> the latest possible release because we need to lock on; upgrading
> later down the road would incur administrative complications.
>
> Tomcat 6 docs page says that "Apache Tomcat version 6.0 implements the
> Servlet 2.5 and JavaServer Pages 2.1 specifications", how complete
> this implementation is? Should I assume that because build 6.0.13 is
> not explicitly marked as alpha or beta, it is a stable build?
>
> "Which version" page does not really clear things up, even more,
> Tomcat 5 seems like the best choice since it is stable and relatively
> up-to-date. Entries for Tomcat 4 and Tomcat 3 recommend to upgrade to
> Tomcat 5, but not to Tomcat 6.
>
> To summarize, I would prefer a most recent yet relatively stable
> version. From administrative point of view, it is much simpler to
> upgrade to a next point version than to a next major release, so I
> would rather start using v. 6 if it is stable enough. Any advice? I
> searched Tomcat mailing list for "Tomcat 6 status" and did not find
> anything specific.
>
> Also, do I have to download JSTL implementation libs separately? Saw
> these libs in webapp samples folder. Any reason why these are not
> included as standard libs? I understand that JSTL is just a spec, but
> servlets and JSPs are specs as well. The whole point in Tomcat that it
> _implements_ SRV and JSP specs. Why JSTL is not implemented by
> default?
>
> Also, what is up with JSF support? tomcat/lib directory does not
> provide even interface libs for JSF. Not that I am going to use JSF, I
> just wanted to find out what the status is. RELEASE-NOTES in the
> download zip file do not help much.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
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>
>
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Re: What is Tomcat 6 status?
Posted by Andre Prasetya <an...@gmail.com>.
I m using tomcat 6 at my production and 5.5 at my development, the backward
compatibility is nice I put tomcat 6 coz I planned on using the newest
servlet spec. so far no problem on default setting. its working nice at jdk
6 or 5.
On 6/29/07, Jacob Rhoden <ja...@uptecs.com> wrote:
>
> It is not as simple as Michael implies, It is my understanding that
> tomcat 6 makes many improvements over tomcat 5. If this is correct then
> it makes choosing between 5 and 6 more complicated than you suggest.
> (And to someone who does not know what the JSP/servlet specs are, this
> is even more unclear). My guess at the best answer is to use 6 even if
> you dont need all of the features of 6, as 5 is bound to become
> unsupported long before 6.
>
> Bryan Rood wrote:
> > Michael,
> >
> > I don't understand where the confusion lies in the first question.
> >
> > At tomcat.apache.org, you see that under "production quality releases",
> > version 6.0.13 is listed as well as 5.5.23. If you don't need JSP Spec
> > 2.1, then you can use 5.5.23, if that factor doesn't matter, than just
> > deploy 6.0.13. We are currently using 6.0 in production and it is stable
> > for our company. There is documentation available as well that describes
> > what to do for tomcat servers running in production. Those
> > recommendations should be followed as well.
> >
> >
> _____________________________________________
> Jacobs Blog -- http://www.jacobrhoden.com/
>
>
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>
>
--
-Andre-
People see things the way they are and say "why ?" I see things that never
were and say "Why not ?"
Re: What is Tomcat 6 status?
Posted by Jacob Rhoden <ja...@uptecs.com>.
It is not as simple as Michael implies, It is my understanding that
tomcat 6 makes many improvements over tomcat 5. If this is correct then
it makes choosing between 5 and 6 more complicated than you suggest.
(And to someone who does not know what the JSP/servlet specs are, this
is even more unclear). My guess at the best answer is to use 6 even if
you dont need all of the features of 6, as 5 is bound to become
unsupported long before 6.
Bryan Rood wrote:
> Michael,
>
> I don't understand where the confusion lies in the first question.
>
> At tomcat.apache.org, you see that under "production quality releases",
> version 6.0.13 is listed as well as 5.5.23. If you don't need JSP Spec
> 2.1, then you can use 5.5.23, if that factor doesn't matter, than just
> deploy 6.0.13. We are currently using 6.0 in production and it is stable
> for our company. There is documentation available as well that describes
> what to do for tomcat servers running in production. Those
> recommendations should be followed as well.
>
>
_____________________________________________
Jacobs Blog -- http://www.jacobrhoden.com/
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RE: What is Tomcat 6 status?
Posted by Bryan Rood <br...@quantros.com>.
Michael,
I don't understand where the confusion lies in the first question.
At tomcat.apache.org, you see that under "production quality releases",
version 6.0.13 is listed as well as 5.5.23. If you don't need JSP Spec
2.1, then you can use 5.5.23, if that factor doesn't matter, than just
deploy 6.0.13. We are currently using 6.0 in production and it is stable
for our company. There is documentation available as well that describes
what to do for tomcat servers running in production. Those
recommendations should be followed as well.
I cannot speak to the other topics. Maybe someone else can.
Bryan Rood
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Jouravlev [mailto:jmikus@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 4:56 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: What is Tomcat 6 status?
Tomcat 6 status is not quite clear from Tomcat website. I want to use
the latest possible release because we need to lock on; upgrading
later down the road would incur administrative complications.
Tomcat 6 docs page says that "Apache Tomcat version 6.0 implements the
Servlet 2.5 and JavaServer Pages 2.1 specifications", how complete
this implementation is? Should I assume that because build 6.0.13 is
not explicitly marked as alpha or beta, it is a stable build?
"Which version" page does not really clear things up, even more,
Tomcat 5 seems like the best choice since it is stable and relatively
up-to-date. Entries for Tomcat 4 and Tomcat 3 recommend to upgrade to
Tomcat 5, but not to Tomcat 6.
To summarize, I would prefer a most recent yet relatively stable
version. From administrative point of view, it is much simpler to
upgrade to a next point version than to a next major release, so I
would rather start using v. 6 if it is stable enough. Any advice? I
searched Tomcat mailing list for "Tomcat 6 status" and did not find
anything specific.
Also, do I have to download JSTL implementation libs separately? Saw
these libs in webapp samples folder. Any reason why these are not
included as standard libs? I understand that JSTL is just a spec, but
servlets and JSPs are specs as well. The whole point in Tomcat that it
_implements_ SRV and JSP specs. Why JSTL is not implemented by
default?
Also, what is up with JSF support? tomcat/lib directory does not
provide even interface libs for JSF. Not that I am going to use JSF, I
just wanted to find out what the status is. RELEASE-NOTES in the
download zip file do not help much.
Thanks,
Michael.
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