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Posted to user@ofbiz.apache.org by Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com> on 2014/02/05 14:40:53 UTC
OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
All,
Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
"clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are --
as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the product
or service will well supported.
For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the bottom of
that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
"Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that the
main navigation is:
Home
Download
Community
Service Providers
Who is using OFBiz?
Documentation
Nick
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
I would say that not complying with/to ASF regulations and guidelines is a
sure path to lose merit in the community.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> This is known for long and we (mostly I) have asked Hans to clean it many
> times
> He did some for (one of?) his twitter account https://twitter.com/apache_
> ofbiz though I always wondered if this is really "casher", but who cares?
> The same question comes for https://twitter.com/ofbiz_biz
> Unfortunately, etc.
>
> The last time I asked for I got good feedbacks for most sites, so I think
> we can come to a consensus
>
> Jacques
> PS: please don't believe that I like to pass so much time in such admin
> tasks :(
>
>
> Le 20/02/2014 09:20, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>
>> Though the site of Hans Bakker may suggest that it is an official OFBiz
>> site, it is not.
>>
>> Furthermore, it shows wrong information regarding committers in the
>> providers overview/map.
>>
>> Regard,
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
This is known for long and we (mostly I) have asked Hans to clean it
many times
He did some for (one of?) his twitter account
https://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz though I always wondered if this is
really "casher", but who cares?
The same question comes for https://twitter.com/ofbiz_biz
Unfortunately, etc.
The last time I asked for I got good feedbacks for most sites, so I
think we can come to a consensus
Jacques
PS: please don't believe that I like to pass so much time in such admin
tasks :(
Le 20/02/2014 09:20, Pierre Smits a écrit :
> Though the site of Hans Bakker may suggest that it is an official OFBiz
> site, it is not.
>
> Furthermore, it shows wrong information regarding committers in the
> providers overview/map.
>
> Regard,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Though the site of Hans Bakker may suggest that it is an official OFBiz
site, it is not.
Furthermore, it shows wrong information regarding committers in the
providers overview/map.
Regard,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Hans Bakker <ma...@antwebsystems.com>.
add me to the +1 list.
we are currently re-implementing the ofbiz.info website which has a
provider map and user map and is available at our staging server:
http://ofbizinfo.ofbizdemo.com/control/providers
http://ofbizinfo.ofbizdemo.com/control/users
we will get back online in a couple of weeks....
Regards,
Hans
On 18/02/14 23:36, Nick Rosser wrote:
> OK, some interesting points being made. Although I truly believe that
> for a bet-your-business solution like OFBiz having a list of users and
> service providers is much more important than for "technical" based
> projects. It certainly would be for me.
>
> Pierre established that some of the other projects do have links to
> this type of info -- and made some good points about being in favor of
> this type of change.
>
> Given that there are 3 in favor (me, Pierre, Jacques), 1 against
> (Jacopo) and 1 neutral (Christian) -- what is the procedure for making
> a decision on this change?
>
> Anyone else in the community have any additional thoughts?
>
> BTW: just to throw it out there -- would this change be easier to make
> if we did not modify the primary navigation area and added the 2 links
> to the "Resources and Tools" section?
>
> Nick
>
> On 2/18/2014 6:08 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>> As for the marketing aspect, linking works both ways.
>>
>> Looking at the homepage of OFBiz I see that marketing is done for
>> various
>> websites . Beside the fact that there is a potential thread of
>> violation of
>> the rights of others, it could be regarded as applying double standards.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail& Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Pierre
>> Smits<pi...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Having done a cursory review of websites of other Apache Projects I can
>>> state that we are not creating a precedent here.
>>>
>>> As for the possibility of potentially conveying the impression that the
>>> community or the ASF are officially supporting implementation and
>>> support
>>> providers this can be easily corrected with a statement at the top
>>> of the
>>> document(s). As for the remark regarding approving any content this
>>> can be
>>> said of anything posted in any document the project controls, e.g.
>>> mailing
>>> lists postings.
>>>
>>> Regarding violating trademark policies of ASF it is so that the
>>> foundation
>>> has sufficient means (and procedures) at its disposal to take
>>> corrective
>>> measures. If there are violations of such policies, then these
>>> should be
>>> addressed.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail& Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>>> jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Nick Rosser<nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So what's the final word on this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change.
>>>> This doesn't seem an accurate summary of the feedback received:
>>>> Jacques
>>>> and Pierre expressed a positive feedback; Christian seems neutral;
>>>> I am
>>>> against; no one else expressed an opinion yet.
>>>> It is really too early to come up to such a conclusion.
>>>>
>>>>> Can we get it done?
>>>> I understand that companies are interested in getting free
>>>> marketing (SEO
>>>> etc..) from independent and authoritative sources like the official
>>>> OFBiz
>>>> site and the ASF in general, and this adds some pressure on the
>>>> OFBiz PMC
>>>> and project. However, as I already stated, I will be against any
>>>> changes,
>>>> e.g., adding a link on the "top menu", that may convey the
>>>> impression that
>>>> the project officially supports or even approves any content on
>>>> which there
>>>> is no control, e.g., the content of wiki documents.
>>>>
>>>> Specifically, the links you want to add in the top menu point to the
>>>> following documents:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
>>>>
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+User+List
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> for which there is no control or rules on who, what and how
>>>> information
>>>> can be published, and there are links that potentially violate the
>>>> trademarks policy of OFBIZ and ASF.
>>>> After a cursory review of the content of these documents I would be
>>>> even
>>>> tempted to propose the removal of the links from the documentation
>>>> page,
>>>> rather than adding them to the top menu (and I am a bit surprised
>>>> to see
>>>> that a PMC member may be in favor of adding them there).
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Jacopo
>>>>
>>>>> Nick
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu
>>>>>> bar of
>>>> the
>>>>>> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>> Services and Retail& Trade
>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The project doesn't have much control over the information
>>>>>>> published
>>>> in
>>>>>>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website
>>>>>>> that
>>>> may
>>>>>>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
>>>>>>> discussions around what was published in the official website
>>>>>>> and the
>>>>>>> current website is the result of those.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think you have a point Nick,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence
>>>> indeed.
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
>>>>>>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress
>>>> any
>>>>>>>>> server.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I agree with the above.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it
>>>>>>>>>> might also
>>>>>>> attract
>>>>>>>>>> some more participation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>>>>>>>>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail& Trade
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>>>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>>>>>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>>>> clearly...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What are others opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM,
>>>>>>>>>>> nrosser@solveda.comwrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look
>>>>>>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the
>>>> vendor's
>>>>>>>>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners
>>>>>>>>>>>> (integrators)
>>>> are
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
>>>>>>> product
>>>>>>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
>>>>>>> bottom of
>>>>>>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz".and
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just
>>>> that, a
>>>>>>>>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest
>>>> that
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>>>>>>> Download
>>>>>>>>>>>> Community
>>>>>>>>>>>> Service Providers
>>>>>>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nick
>>>>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
If a veto is justified, a commiter can do it:
https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#Veto
This section speak about code, it can be generalised to any document a
committer has to commit.
But I think we should rather try to find a consensus...
In the past we decided to remove direct links to major contributing
companies from the site main page because it was unfair for other
companies. But I see no problems linking those 2 pages if they respect
the Apache way (intentionally vague since I don't know if there are
issues yet as Jacopo mentionned)
Jacques
Le 18/02/2014 21:53, Pierre Smits a écrit :
> Actually, the statement 'and every committer can express a veto (-1) on
> every commit' by Jacopo is incorrect. Committers cannot veto. The document
> referenced states no such thing.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Jacopo Cappellato <
> jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>
>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 5:36 PM, Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
>>
>>> what is the procedure for making a decision on this change?
>> A commit is required to change the website and every committer can express
>> a veto (-1) on every commit [*].
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>> [*] https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
>>
>>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Actually, the statement 'and every committer can express a veto (-1) on
every commit' by Jacopo is incorrect. Committers cannot veto. The document
referenced states no such thing.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Jacopo Cappellato <
jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 2014, at 5:36 PM, Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
>
> > what is the procedure for making a decision on this change?
>
> A commit is required to change the website and every committer can express
> a veto (-1) on every commit [*].
>
> Jacopo
>
> [*] https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
>
>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
On Feb 18, 2014, at 5:36 PM, Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
> what is the procedure for making a decision on this change?
A commit is required to change the website and every committer can express a veto (-1) on every commit [*].
Jacopo
[*] https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Ted Byers <r....@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
> OK, some interesting points being made. Although I truly believe that for
> a bet-your-business solution like OFBiz having a list of users and service
> providers is much more important than for "technical" based projects. It
> certainly would be for me.
>
> Pierre established that some of the other projects do have links to this
> type of info -- and made some good points about being in favor of this type
> of change.
>
> Given that there are 3 in favor (me, Pierre, Jacques), 1 against (Jacopo)
> and 1 neutral (Christian) -- what is the procedure for making a decision on
> this change?
>
> Anyone else in the community have any additional thoughts?
>
> I too would agree this is a good idea. I am more likely to use a product
that is widely used, especially for this kind of product. Who in his right
mind would bet his key business processes on a product like this if it is
not widely used? But, contrary to what is suggested above, I apply that
consideration to all products, including especially primarily technical
products (e.g. number crunching libraries, compilers, &c.). I am wary of
using a product that is used only by the developer, or team thereof, that
developed it.
If this can be provided on the website you're discussing, great. If there
is some kind of administrative problem with doing that, then perhaps
someone can take the bull by the horns as it were and create a site that
provides it, and takes responsibility to add a link to it in, e.g. a sig to
all his/her email sent to this list. The bottom line, here, is that it
ought no tbe necessary to resort to google just to find out who is using
OFBiz, how many such users there are, and who are the service providers who
help businesses use it.
Cheers
Ted
> BTW: just to throw it out there -- would this change be easier to make if
> we did not modify the primary navigation area and added the 2 links to the
> "Resources and Tools" section?
>
> Nick
>
>
> On 2/18/2014 6:08 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>
>> As for the marketing aspect, linking works both ways.
>>
>> Looking at the homepage of OFBiz I see that marketing is done for various
>> websites . Beside the fact that there is a potential thread of violation
>> of
>> the rights of others, it could be regarded as applying double standards.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail& Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Pierre Smits<pi...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Having done a cursory review of websites of other Apache Projects I can
>>> state that we are not creating a precedent here.
>>>
>>> As for the possibility of potentially conveying the impression that the
>>> community or the ASF are officially supporting implementation and support
>>> providers this can be easily corrected with a statement at the top of the
>>> document(s). As for the remark regarding approving any content this can
>>> be
>>> said of anything posted in any document the project controls, e.g.
>>> mailing
>>> lists postings.
>>>
>>> Regarding violating trademark policies of ASF it is so that the
>>> foundation
>>> has sufficient means (and procedures) at its disposal to take corrective
>>> measures. If there are violations of such policies, then these should be
>>> addressed.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail& Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>>> jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Nick Rosser<nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So what's the final word on this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change.
>>>>>
>>>> This doesn't seem an accurate summary of the feedback received: Jacques
>>>> and Pierre expressed a positive feedback; Christian seems neutral; I am
>>>> against; no one else expressed an opinion yet.
>>>> It is really too early to come up to such a conclusion.
>>>>
>>>> Can we get it done?
>>>>>
>>>> I understand that companies are interested in getting free marketing
>>>> (SEO
>>>> etc..) from independent and authoritative sources like the official
>>>> OFBiz
>>>> site and the ASF in general, and this adds some pressure on the OFBiz
>>>> PMC
>>>> and project. However, as I already stated, I will be against any
>>>> changes,
>>>> e.g., adding a link on the "top menu", that may convey the impression
>>>> that
>>>> the project officially supports or even approves any content on which
>>>> there
>>>> is no control, e.g., the content of wiki documents.
>>>>
>>>> Specifically, the links you want to add in the top menu point to the
>>>> following documents:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/
>>>> Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/
>>>> Apache+OFBiz+User+List
>>>>
>>>> for which there is no control or rules on who, what and how information
>>>> can be published, and there are links that potentially violate the
>>>> trademarks policy of OFBIZ and ASF.
>>>> After a cursory review of the content of these documents I would be even
>>>> tempted to propose the removal of the links from the documentation page,
>>>> rather than adding them to the top menu (and I am a bit surprised to see
>>>> that a PMC member may be in favor of adding them there).
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Jacopo
>>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>> Services and Retail& Trade
>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The project doesn't have much control over the information published
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> may
>>>>
>>>>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
>>>>>>> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
>>>>>>> current website is the result of those.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you have a point Nick,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> indeed.
>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>
>>>>> server.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I agree with the above.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might
>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> attract
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> some more participation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>>>>>>>>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail& Trade
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>>>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>>>>>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> clearly...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What are others opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, nrosser@solveda.comwrote
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>>>>>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> vendor's
>>>>
>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> product
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> bottom of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that, a
>>>>
>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>>>>>>> Download
>>>>>>>>>>>> Community
>>>>>>>>>>>> Service Providers
>>>>>>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
--
R.E.(Ted) Byers, Ph.D.,Ed.D.
TED@MERCHANTSERVICECORP.COM
CTO
Merchant Services Corp.
17665 Leslie st., unit 30
Newmarket , Ontario
L3Y 3E3
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com>.
OK, some interesting points being made. Although I truly believe that
for a bet-your-business solution like OFBiz having a list of users and
service providers is much more important than for "technical" based
projects. It certainly would be for me.
Pierre established that some of the other projects do have links to this
type of info -- and made some good points about being in favor of this
type of change.
Given that there are 3 in favor (me, Pierre, Jacques), 1 against
(Jacopo) and 1 neutral (Christian) -- what is the procedure for making a
decision on this change?
Anyone else in the community have any additional thoughts?
BTW: just to throw it out there -- would this change be easier to make
if we did not modify the primary navigation area and added the 2 links
to the "Resources and Tools" section?
Nick
On 2/18/2014 6:08 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> As for the marketing aspect, linking works both ways.
>
> Looking at the homepage of OFBiz I see that marketing is done for various
> websites . Beside the fact that there is a potential thread of violation of
> the rights of others, it could be regarded as applying double standards.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail& Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Pierre Smits<pi...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Having done a cursory review of websites of other Apache Projects I can
>> state that we are not creating a precedent here.
>>
>> As for the possibility of potentially conveying the impression that the
>> community or the ASF are officially supporting implementation and support
>> providers this can be easily corrected with a statement at the top of the
>> document(s). As for the remark regarding approving any content this can be
>> said of anything posted in any document the project controls, e.g. mailing
>> lists postings.
>>
>> Regarding violating trademark policies of ASF it is so that the foundation
>> has sufficient means (and procedures) at its disposal to take corrective
>> measures. If there are violations of such policies, then these should be
>> addressed.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail& Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>> jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Nick Rosser<nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So what's the final word on this?
>>>>
>>>> Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change.
>>> This doesn't seem an accurate summary of the feedback received: Jacques
>>> and Pierre expressed a positive feedback; Christian seems neutral; I am
>>> against; no one else expressed an opinion yet.
>>> It is really too early to come up to such a conclusion.
>>>
>>>> Can we get it done?
>>> I understand that companies are interested in getting free marketing (SEO
>>> etc..) from independent and authoritative sources like the official OFBiz
>>> site and the ASF in general, and this adds some pressure on the OFBiz PMC
>>> and project. However, as I already stated, I will be against any changes,
>>> e.g., adding a link on the "top menu", that may convey the impression that
>>> the project officially supports or even approves any content on which there
>>> is no control, e.g., the content of wiki documents.
>>>
>>> Specifically, the links you want to add in the top menu point to the
>>> following documents:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+User+List
>>>
>>> for which there is no control or rules on who, what and how information
>>> can be published, and there are links that potentially violate the
>>> trademarks policy of OFBIZ and ASF.
>>> After a cursory review of the content of these documents I would be even
>>> tempted to propose the removal of the links from the documentation page,
>>> rather than adding them to the top menu (and I am a bit surprised to see
>>> that a PMC member may be in favor of adding them there).
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>> On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of
>>> the
>>>>> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>> Services and Retail& Trade
>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The project doesn't have much control over the information published
>>> in
>>>>>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that
>>> may
>>>>>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
>>>>>> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
>>>>>> current website is the result of those.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you have a point Nick,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence
>>> indeed.
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
>>>>>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from
>>> the
>>>>>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress
>>> any
>>>>>>>> server.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I agree with the above.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also
>>>>>> attract
>>>>>>>>> some more participation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>>>>>>>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail& Trade
>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>>>>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>>> clearly...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What are others opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, nrosser@solveda.comwrote
>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>>>>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the
>>> vendor's
>>>>>>>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators)
>>> are
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
>>>>>> product
>>>>>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
>>>>>> bottom of
>>>>>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>>>>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just
>>> that, a
>>>>>>>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest
>>> that
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>>>>>> Download
>>>>>>>>>>> Community
>>>>>>>>>>> Service Providers
>>>>>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nick
>>>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Jacques is correct when saying 'it's a kind of marketing of OFBiz' when he
talks about the images at the top of the home page of the OFBiz site. This
holds equally true for referring to users and OFBiz integrators on the
homepage. In stead of burying links to sites of users (let's face it: these
are businesses) and system integrators/implementers deep in some wiki page,
the higher these are ranked in the site (closer to the home page) the
better it is for the site.
Several subject matter sites regarding the topic of outbound linking state
that outbound linking has a positive effect for the site that provides the
links. And in this case of the OFBiz project it will lead to higher ranking
when persons search for any of the keywords in the homepage. Thus leading
to more traffic to the site, and hopefully a bigger community.
Regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
First of all, everything published on a publication means of the Foundation
(regardless whether this is an 'official' site, a wiki or a mailing list)
is in line with the principles of the ASF. If not, actions will be
undertaken. By the ASF.
Nowhere in the documents of the ASF it is stated that when a site is in a
bad state (a mess as it has been called) it may not be linked.
As for contributing and calling yourself a contributor, the term
contributor is official in the ASF documents and when persons provide
comments, document enhancements or even participate in discussions they are
contributing to the project. Again without any remark about the quality of
the contribution, only that the contributions are improvements.
What I read in the lines of Jacopo is veto. What I don't read is: 'I have
my opinion about how it should be, but I am for finding a consensus to get
this issue resolved'. And that is a pity. Because no matter what a project
has as output or where its community wants it to go, according to the ASF
it should always be 'Community over Code'. And so should this project be.
Regards.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Those were provided by HWM (Hotwax Media) when they overhauled the look
of the site with Brainfood.
I personally see no issues there because even if you can barely read the
site names, there are no links and the images were only provided as
examples. They could be replaced but sincerely it's a moot point. If you
are not aware of the history you hardly can know who build these sites
and you can't directly link to them.
To me it's kind of marketing for OFBiz, not for sites builders. We could
put more images (form other sites builders) or update/replace currents
ones, size: 513x202 32 bits/pixel
Jacques
Le 19/02/2014 11:54, Pierre Smits a écrit :
> If you are referring to the images that change at the top of the home page,
> then the answer is yes.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
If you are referring to the images that change at the top of the home page,
then the answer is yes.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Which websites are you seeing there? In the carousel?
Jacques
Le 18/02/2014 12:08, Pierre Smits a écrit :
> As for the marketing aspect, linking works both ways.
>
> Looking at the homepage of OFBiz I see that marketing is done for various
> websites . Beside the fact that there is a potential thread of violation of
> the rights of others, it could be regarded as applying double standards.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Having done a cursory review of websites of other Apache Projects I can
>> state that we are not creating a precedent here.
>>
>> As for the possibility of potentially conveying the impression that the
>> community or the ASF are officially supporting implementation and support
>> providers this can be easily corrected with a statement at the top of the
>> document(s). As for the remark regarding approving any content this can be
>> said of anything posted in any document the project controls, e.g. mailing
>> lists postings.
>>
>> Regarding violating trademark policies of ASF it is so that the foundation
>> has sufficient means (and procedures) at its disposal to take corrective
>> measures. If there are violations of such policies, then these should be
>> addressed.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>> jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So what's the final word on this?
>>>>
>>>> Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change.
>>> This doesn't seem an accurate summary of the feedback received: Jacques
>>> and Pierre expressed a positive feedback; Christian seems neutral; I am
>>> against; no one else expressed an opinion yet.
>>> It is really too early to come up to such a conclusion.
>>>
>>>> Can we get it done?
>>> I understand that companies are interested in getting free marketing (SEO
>>> etc..) from independent and authoritative sources like the official OFBiz
>>> site and the ASF in general, and this adds some pressure on the OFBiz PMC
>>> and project. However, as I already stated, I will be against any changes,
>>> e.g., adding a link on the "top menu", that may convey the impression that
>>> the project officially supports or even approves any content on which there
>>> is no control, e.g., the content of wiki documents.
>>>
>>> Specifically, the links you want to add in the top menu point to the
>>> following documents:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+User+List
>>>
>>> for which there is no control or rules on who, what and how information
>>> can be published, and there are links that potentially violate the
>>> trademarks policy of OFBIZ and ASF.
>>> After a cursory review of the content of these documents I would be even
>>> tempted to propose the removal of the links from the documentation page,
>>> rather than adding them to the top menu (and I am a bit surprised to see
>>> that a PMC member may be in favor of adding them there).
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>> On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of
>>> the
>>>>> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>> Services and Retail& Trade
>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The project doesn't have much control over the information published
>>> in
>>>>>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that
>>> may
>>>>>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
>>>>>> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
>>>>>> current website is the result of those.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you have a point Nick,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence
>>> indeed.
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
>>>>>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from
>>> the
>>>>>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress
>>> any
>>>>>>>> server.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I agree with the above.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also
>>>>>> attract
>>>>>>>>> some more participation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>>>>>>>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail& Trade
>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>>>>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>>> clearly...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What are others opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, nrosser@solveda.comwrote
>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>>>>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the
>>> vendor's
>>>>>>>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators)
>>> are
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
>>>>>> product
>>>>>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
>>>>>> bottom of
>>>>>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>>>>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just
>>> that, a
>>>>>>>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest
>>> that
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>>>>>> Download
>>>>>>>>>>> Community
>>>>>>>>>>> Service Providers
>>>>>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nick
>>>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
As for the marketing aspect, linking works both ways.
Looking at the homepage of OFBiz I see that marketing is done for various
websites . Beside the fact that there is a potential thread of violation of
the rights of others, it could be regarded as applying double standards.
Regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Having done a cursory review of websites of other Apache Projects I can
> state that we are not creating a precedent here.
>
> As for the possibility of potentially conveying the impression that the
> community or the ASF are officially supporting implementation and support
> providers this can be easily corrected with a statement at the top of the
> document(s). As for the remark regarding approving any content this can be
> said of anything posted in any document the project controls, e.g. mailing
> lists postings.
>
> Regarding violating trademark policies of ASF it is so that the foundation
> has sufficient means (and procedures) at its disposal to take corrective
> measures. If there are violations of such policies, then these should be
> addressed.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
> jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
>>
>> > So what's the final word on this?
>> >
>> > Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change.
>>
>> This doesn't seem an accurate summary of the feedback received: Jacques
>> and Pierre expressed a positive feedback; Christian seems neutral; I am
>> against; no one else expressed an opinion yet.
>> It is really too early to come up to such a conclusion.
>>
>> > Can we get it done?
>>
>> I understand that companies are interested in getting free marketing (SEO
>> etc..) from independent and authoritative sources like the official OFBiz
>> site and the ASF in general, and this adds some pressure on the OFBiz PMC
>> and project. However, as I already stated, I will be against any changes,
>> e.g., adding a link on the "top menu", that may convey the impression that
>> the project officially supports or even approves any content on which there
>> is no control, e.g., the content of wiki documents.
>>
>> Specifically, the links you want to add in the top menu point to the
>> following documents:
>>
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+User+List
>>
>> for which there is no control or rules on who, what and how information
>> can be published, and there are links that potentially violate the
>> trademarks policy of OFBIZ and ASF.
>> After a cursory review of the content of these documents I would be even
>> tempted to propose the removal of the links from the documentation page,
>> rather than adding them to the top menu (and I am a bit surprised to see
>> that a PMC member may be in favor of adding them there).
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>> >
>> > Nick
>> >
>> > On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>> >> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of
>> the
>> >> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
>> >>
>> >> Pierre Smits
>> >>
>> >> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> >> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> >> Services and Retail& Trade
>> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>> >> jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> The project doesn't have much control over the information published
>> in
>> >>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that
>> may
>> >>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
>> >>> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
>> >>> current website is the result of those.
>> >>>
>> >>> Jacopo
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
>> >>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I think you have a point Nick,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence
>> indeed.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Jacques
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
>> >>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from
>> the
>> >>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress
>> any
>> >>>>> server.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>> >>>>>> I agree with the above.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also
>> >>> attract
>> >>>>>> some more participation.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Pierre Smits
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>> >>>>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>> >>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> >>>>>> Services and Retail& Trade
>> >>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>> >>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>> >>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>> >>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
>> >>> remember
>> >>>>>>> clearly...
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> What are others opinions?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Jacques
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, nrosser@solveda.comwrote
>> >>>>>>>> All,
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>> >>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the
>> vendor's
>> >>>>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators)
>> are
>> >>> --
>> >>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
>> >>> product
>> >>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
>> >>> bottom of
>> >>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>> >>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just
>> that, a
>> >>>>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest
>> that
>> >>> the
>> >>>>>>>> main navigation is:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Home
>> >>>>>>>> Download
>> >>>>>>>> Community
>> >>>>>>>> Service Providers
>> >>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>> >>>>>>>> Documentation
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Nick
>> >>>
>>
>>
>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Having done a cursory review of websites of other Apache Projects I can
state that we are not creating a precedent here.
As for the possibility of potentially conveying the impression that the
community or the ASF are officially supporting implementation and support
providers this can be easily corrected with a statement at the top of the
document(s). As for the remark regarding approving any content this can be
said of anything posted in any document the project controls, e.g. mailing
lists postings.
Regarding violating trademark policies of ASF it is so that the foundation
has sufficient means (and procedures) at its disposal to take corrective
measures. If there are violations of such policies, then these should be
addressed.
Regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>
> On Feb 17, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
>
> > So what's the final word on this?
> >
> > Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change.
>
> This doesn't seem an accurate summary of the feedback received: Jacques
> and Pierre expressed a positive feedback; Christian seems neutral; I am
> against; no one else expressed an opinion yet.
> It is really too early to come up to such a conclusion.
>
> > Can we get it done?
>
> I understand that companies are interested in getting free marketing (SEO
> etc..) from independent and authoritative sources like the official OFBiz
> site and the ASF in general, and this adds some pressure on the OFBiz PMC
> and project. However, as I already stated, I will be against any changes,
> e.g., adding a link on the "top menu", that may convey the impression that
> the project officially supports or even approves any content on which there
> is no control, e.g., the content of wiki documents.
>
> Specifically, the links you want to add in the top menu point to the
> following documents:
>
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+User+List
>
> for which there is no control or rules on who, what and how information
> can be published, and there are links that potentially violate the
> trademarks policy of OFBIZ and ASF.
> After a cursory review of the content of these documents I would be even
> tempted to propose the removal of the links from the documentation page,
> rather than adding them to the top menu (and I am a bit surprised to see
> that a PMC member may be in favor of adding them there).
>
> Regards,
>
> Jacopo
>
> >
> > Nick
> >
> > On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of
> the
> >> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
> >>
> >> Pierre Smits
> >>
> >> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >> Services and Retail& Trade
> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
> >> jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The project doesn't have much control over the information published in
> >>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that
> may
> >>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
> >>> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
> >>> current website is the result of those.
> >>>
> >>> Jacopo
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
> >>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I think you have a point Nick,
> >>>>
> >>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence indeed.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jacques
> >>>>
> >>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
> >>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from the
> >>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress any
> >>>>> server.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >>>>>> I agree with the above.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also
> >>> attract
> >>>>>> some more participation.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Pierre Smits
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
> >>>>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
> >>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>>>>> Services and Retail& Trade
> >>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
> >>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
> >>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
> >>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
> >>> remember
> >>>>>>> clearly...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What are others opinions?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
> >>>>>>>> All,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
> >>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the
> vendor's
> >>>>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators)
> are
> >>> --
> >>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
> >>> product
> >>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
> >>> bottom of
> >>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
> >>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just
> that, a
> >>>>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that
> >>> the
> >>>>>>>> main navigation is:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Home
> >>>>>>>> Download
> >>>>>>>> Community
> >>>>>>>> Service Providers
> >>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
> >>>>>>>> Documentation
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Nick
> >>>
>
>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
I like Jacopo's answer!
Jacques
Le 19/02/2014 23:32, Nick Rosser a écrit :
> With Hans joining the "yes" vote can we go ahead and action the
> originally proposed change?
>
> Nick
>
> On 2/19/2014 6:08 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> BTW, last thought on this about external sites monitored for
>> violation: should we not rather remove than monitor them? Then it
>> would not penalize other sites...
>>
>> This done we could block the page for users who would like to exceed
>> their rights to edit (though I have still to understand how that
>> works, see for instance Pierre's request about Roadmap page access)
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 19/02/2014 11:26, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>> Le 19/02/2014 07:38, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:42 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Please could you point the issues you see there?
>>>> The information published in the OFBiz website is official and must
>>>> be endorsed and approved by the OFBiz PMC before its publication.
>>>> The information in the Wiki is not; specifically, we do not have
>>>> clear rules that govern the "users" and "providers" list: I can
>>>> add/move my company to the top, someone could decide that only
>>>> companies with committers can appear there (I see now that there
>>>> are several companies in the page that mention the term
>>>> "contributors" even if this is not a role assigned by the OFBiz
>>>> PMC), I see links to external sites that the ASF is monitoring for
>>>> violations to the ASF and OFBiz trademarks, in general I see pages
>>>> that are a mess and clearly they can't be officially endorsed by
>>>> the project.
>>>
>>> Having links to external sites monitored for violations by the ASF
>>> is clearly an issue which prevents to endorse these pages and link
>>> them from the main site.
>>>
>>> Some time ago, I added a note on top of the
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
>>> page
>>> <<We (OFBiz committers) keep an eye on this list in order to keep
>>> independent committers and companies with committer(s) at the top of
>>> the list. Else no order is specifically required so far (we will
>>> certainly alphabetically order the lists later), thank you>>
>>>
>>> Actually, though I wrote "We (OFBiz committers)" it was my own
>>> decision to monitor and keep this page as clean as possible.
>>> Contributor is indeed not an official role. It was added by someone
>>> and I decided to keep the idea. Because it allows to separate
>>> contributors from committers in this column.
>>> Maybe the title of the column is not clear?
>>> Or maybe, as it was before, we should keep only PMC members (IIRW,
>>> Adrian also added the PMC member role in this list and I followed)
>>> and committers in this list?
>>> I thought about adding a new column for contributors, but decided
>>> it was a bit too much, this could be done also, for the sake of
>>> separating concerns.
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>>> I believe we should trust the community and if there are issues on
>>>>> these pages we should fix those issues, this is our duty.
>>>> It is good to allocate some space to the community to freely
>>>> publish this kind of information, but this doesn't mean that the
>>>> PMC has to endorse them or fix them.
>>>>
>>>> Jacopo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Inline
Le 20/02/2014 11:14, Paul Piper a écrit :
> Perhaps in order to add my own 2 cents to this debate:
>
> The way I see it, OFbiz is need for the carousel images, although they
> should be updated. Rereading the content, i noticed that the information do
> not really stand for much, and though they are eye-pleasing I highly doubt
> that they are being read. What we would need is a set of actual messages we
> want to stand for. Topics could be:
>
> 1. Open Source - Strong Community
> 2. Full Business Solution
> 3. Flexible ERP Framework
> 4. Feature-Rich eCommerce used by many
>
> The images and messages should add to that. Currently, there is only
> eCommerce stores represented, though by the above topics only 1 of them
> should even feature stores (or brand-logos to give more the feel of the 250+
> implementation we currently got). The others should rather feature a source
> code sample (open-source), versatile business applications and how easily
> one can connect OFBiz with other systems.
>
This sounds like a start for a brainstorming about what should be in
this carousel...
Jacques
> -----
> As far as the contributors debate is concerned: I must say that I have a
> growing disdain of the current use of the phrases "Commiters" "Contributors"
> and "PMC Member". Especially in the world of Apache, I am used to having a
> flexible leadership and group-effort. Over the years, I have learned,
> however that the OFbiz community works alot different from it. I think I can
> say that my team and I have added quite a bit of value to the project, by
> being involved in the ml, representing OFBiz at the Apache-Con, writing
> articles to magazines, contributing software code (Solr component, Seo
> enhancements, CMS integration sample, Axis2 implementation etc.), though we
> are stuck being in the "contributors" list. I am not down-talking the
> achivements of others, but one has to admit that the use of the phrases is
> rather random. Other huge contributors seem to share a similar fate.
>
> The reason i am bringing it up here, is because the ml has the tendency to
> downtalk the contributions of others, contributions that the community is in
> desperate need for. Anything contributed is an investment by the individual,
> no matter in which form (even discussions on the ml add to it in my
> perspective) and the current selection of "rank" over actual contribution is
> a state that i find deeply disturbing and worrisome.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/OFBiz-org-site-easier-navigation-to-Service-Providers-and-End-Users-tp4648057p4648413.html
> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Paul Piper <pp...@ilscipio.com>.
Perhaps in order to add my own 2 cents to this debate:
The way I see it, OFbiz is need for the carousel images, although they
should be updated. Rereading the content, i noticed that the information do
not really stand for much, and though they are eye-pleasing I highly doubt
that they are being read. What we would need is a set of actual messages we
want to stand for. Topics could be:
1. Open Source - Strong Community
2. Full Business Solution
3. Flexible ERP Framework
4. Feature-Rich eCommerce used by many
The images and messages should add to that. Currently, there is only
eCommerce stores represented, though by the above topics only 1 of them
should even feature stores (or brand-logos to give more the feel of the 250+
implementation we currently got). The others should rather feature a source
code sample (open-source), versatile business applications and how easily
one can connect OFBiz with other systems.
-----
As far as the contributors debate is concerned: I must say that I have a
growing disdain of the current use of the phrases "Commiters" "Contributors"
and "PMC Member". Especially in the world of Apache, I am used to having a
flexible leadership and group-effort. Over the years, I have learned,
however that the OFbiz community works alot different from it. I think I can
say that my team and I have added quite a bit of value to the project, by
being involved in the ml, representing OFBiz at the Apache-Con, writing
articles to magazines, contributing software code (Solr component, Seo
enhancements, CMS integration sample, Axis2 implementation etc.), though we
are stuck being in the "contributors" list. I am not down-talking the
achivements of others, but one has to admit that the use of the phrases is
rather random. Other huge contributors seem to share a similar fate.
The reason i am bringing it up here, is because the ml has the tendency to
downtalk the contributions of others, contributions that the community is in
desperate need for. Anything contributed is an investment by the individual,
no matter in which form (even discussions on the ml add to it in my
perspective) and the current selection of "rank" over actual contribution is
a state that i find deeply disturbing and worrisome.
--
View this message in context: http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/OFBiz-org-site-easier-navigation-to-Service-Providers-and-End-Users-tp4648057p4648413.html
Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
On Feb 24, 2014, at 12:12 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> Questions:
> The "Apache OFBiz Service Providers"https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers will be removed, right?
We can leave the page there; at least until we are happy with the new one (or even after).
> Should we (PMC) not first review the current descriptions and reuse them if possible?
I would prefer to start from scratch with the new process and wait for company proposals; in the meantime the current page will still be usable as is now.
Jacopo
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
On Feb 24, 2014, at 12:12 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> What about the "Apache OFBiz User List" page, notably the "Products and Projects based on Apache OFBiz" section?
We could apply a similar pattern to the one we are discussing for the "service provider" list.
Jacopo
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Thanks Jacopo,
This seems indeed the better way to go for service providers. I agree also about the better template sent afterwards.
The reasons I agree:
* It would be now companies responsibility for supplied information
* The PMC can check and guarantee the quality and veracity of supplied information
If others agree, we need now to define the maximum number of characters allowed for companies description
Questions:
The "Apache OFBiz Service Providers" https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers will be removed, right?
Should we (PMC) not first review the current descriptions and reuse them if possible? On the other hand, deleting the page and beginning anew could
have some advantages. Mostly removing deprecated/not-maintained information and no have the responsibility of the companies description contents if we
have to adapt them (like having to change it because of length, content, etc.)
What about the "Apache OFBiz User List" page, notably the "Products and Projects based on Apache OFBiz" section?
Jacques
Le 24/02/2014 11:26, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> On Feb 20, 2014, at 10:20 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>
>> * I would like to review examples from other ASF projects doing the same; in this thread it was mentioned that several other projects are doing the same; I don't have time to research but if a volunteer could provide a list of projects and URLs of such documents I would be happy to review them
> I have reviewed all the URL with examples of other ASF projects that you all sent me (thanks) and here is my preference:
>
> 1) the (new) page containing "service providers for OFBiz" will be hosted in the OFBiz website as a static html page (not in the Wiki, but we could leave the existing one there): this means that only committers will be able to edit it
> 2) the page will have a list of companies sorted in alphabetical order; only the name of the company (clickable, opens in a new browser tab the company's website) and a short description are allowed (we will define the maximum number of characters allowed); in the description the company can mention any information they like (committers, services provided, location, etc...)
> 3) in order to appear in the page, a company will have to send a mail to the OFBiz PMC, with the exact text to be included in the page
> 4) the PMC will review the proposal, will check if the company respects the ASF guidelines (trademarks etc...) and then will start a private vote; if the vote will pass (majority, not veto) then the company will be added to the page; if the vote will not pass, the PMC will prepare a response with detailed reasons for the rejection; of course the company could always fix them and resubmit a proposal
> 5) over time the PMC may review the list and vote for the removal of some companies (if they violates ASF guidelines, if they are no longer operating on OFBiz etc...)
>
> I like the text in the Cayenne site (http://cayenne.apache.org/support.html ); following a similar template the OFBiz page could look like this:
>
> ==============================================
> *Commercial Support And Consulting*
>
> If your company also provides commercial services supporting Apache OFBiz, please drop a note to the OFBiz PMC (private at ofbiz dot apache dot org), we'll review your request and add a note to this page.
>
> • AAA. This is the description of the first company in the list.
> • AAB. This is the description of the second company in the list.
> • AAC. This is the description of the third company in the list.
> ==============================================
>
> Jacopo
>
>
>
>
>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
On Feb 24, 2014, at 1:29 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So leaving that and similar regarding PMC and Contributors out
> of the company description would serve the 'unbiased' aspect of the project
> better.
I definitely agree that the fact that a company has employees that are committers in the project should not be relevant for the decision by the PMC to include it (or not) in the page; however I would leave it to the company to decide what content to include in its description (possibly mentioning a committer or not) based on company's strategy.
Jacopo
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
On Feb 24, 2014, at 1:29 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Furthermore, I would suggest to include the disclaimer (at least at the
> top) regarding the aspect of not endorsing/favouring any company
+1
Jacopo
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Hi Jacopo,
I like the outline of the proposed policy description and solution (the
page).
However, I do have to remark that companies can't be committers as per ASF
regulations. So leaving that and similar regarding PMC and Contributors out
of the company description would serve the 'unbiased' aspect of the project
better.
Furthermore, I would suggest to include the disclaimer (at least at the
top) regarding the aspect of not endorsing/favouring any company as per
your earlier posting in this thread.
Starting from a blank page would surely have a cleansing effect.
Lastly, thanks for taking the time to address this issue swiftly.
Regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
A slightly better template for the page: now it is clearly stated that the list is sorted by alphabetical order and not relevance.
==============================================
*Commercial Support And Consulting*
These companies provide professional services around Apache OFBiz (sorted by alphabetical order)
If your company also provides commercial services supporting Apache OFBiz, please drop a note to the OFBiz PMC (private at ofbiz dot apache dot org), we'll review your request and add a note to this page.
• AAA. This is the description of the first company in the list.
• AAB. This is the description of the second company in the list.
• AAC. This is the description of the third company in the list.
==============================================
Jacopo
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
On Feb 20, 2014, at 10:20 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
> * I would like to review examples from other ASF projects doing the same; in this thread it was mentioned that several other projects are doing the same; I don't have time to research but if a volunteer could provide a list of projects and URLs of such documents I would be happy to review them
I have reviewed all the URL with examples of other ASF projects that you all sent me (thanks) and here is my preference:
1) the (new) page containing "service providers for OFBiz" will be hosted in the OFBiz website as a static html page (not in the Wiki, but we could leave the existing one there): this means that only committers will be able to edit it
2) the page will have a list of companies sorted in alphabetical order; only the name of the company (clickable, opens in a new browser tab the company's website) and a short description are allowed (we will define the maximum number of characters allowed); in the description the company can mention any information they like (committers, services provided, location, etc...)
3) in order to appear in the page, a company will have to send a mail to the OFBiz PMC, with the exact text to be included in the page
4) the PMC will review the proposal, will check if the company respects the ASF guidelines (trademarks etc...) and then will start a private vote; if the vote will pass (majority, not veto) then the company will be added to the page; if the vote will not pass, the PMC will prepare a response with detailed reasons for the rejection; of course the company could always fix them and resubmit a proposal
5) over time the PMC may review the list and vote for the removal of some companies (if they violates ASF guidelines, if they are no longer operating on OFBiz etc...)
I like the text in the Cayenne site (http://cayenne.apache.org/support.html ); following a similar template the OFBiz page could look like this:
==============================================
*Commercial Support And Consulting*
If your company also provides commercial services supporting Apache OFBiz, please drop a note to the OFBiz PMC (private at ofbiz dot apache dot org), we'll review your request and add a note to this page.
• AAA. This is the description of the first company in the list.
• AAB. This is the description of the second company in the list.
• AAC. This is the description of the third company in the list.
==============================================
Jacopo
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
The reply by Jacopo definitely reads more like trying to conceive consensus.
Maybe it would be good to contact the PMC chairs of the other project (and
perhaps also COMDEV) to see what their policy is on this subject) and
achieve alignment regarding ruling.
Regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
> I guess that you could create a patch with the proposed changes and then
> create a Jira ticket, then start a voting thread in the dev list.
>
> Before we go into it, I anticipate here some conditions that I think are
> important:
> * I would like to review examples from other ASF projects doing the same;
> in this thread it was mentioned that several other projects are doing the
> same; I don't have time to research but if a volunteer could provide a list
> of projects and URLs of such documents I would be happy to review them
> * remove from the documents any links to external sites that are not
> strictly following the ASF trademark guidelines; this includes all the
> sites containing the OFBiz name in the domain (e.g. ofbiz.info)
> * the link from the OFBiz website should have enough information to
> clearly show that the referenced documents are not under the control of the
> PMC, but instead they are "open" documents at the disposal of the public
> * the same disclaimer is added at the top of each page
> * the documents open in a different tab (i.e. they use the "target"
> attribute)
> * they are not added to the top navigation bar; my preference would be to
> add them to the body of the index page, in this paragraph:
>
> "For answers to your questions you might find the following documents
> useful:
> * Documentation
> * Documentation - Project Overview
> * Documentation - Getting Started"
>
> * we define clear rules on the format and content of these pages: define
> the column and content that each field can contain, the order of the
> entries, define if there are minimal requirements for publishing a
> company/site, define the amount of text each field can have, where external
> links can be defined
>
> Jacopo
>
> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:32 PM, Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
>
> > With Hans joining the "yes" vote can we go ahead and action the
> originally proposed change?
> >
> > Nick
> >
> > On 2/19/2014 6:08 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> >> BTW, last thought on this about external sites monitored for violation:
> should we not rather remove than monitor them? Then it would not penalize
> other sites...
> >>
> >> This done we could block the page for users who would like to exceed
> their rights to edit (though I have still to understand how that works, see
> for instance Pierre's request about Roadmap page access)
> >>
> >> Jacques
> >>
> >> Le 19/02/2014 11:26, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
> >>> Le 19/02/2014 07:38, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> >>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:42 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Please could you point the issues you see there?
> >>>> The information published in the OFBiz website is official and must
> be endorsed and approved by the OFBiz PMC before its publication.
> >>>> The information in the Wiki is not; specifically, we do not have
> clear rules that govern the "users" and "providers" list: I can add/move my
> company to the top, someone could decide that only companies with
> committers can appear there (I see now that there are several companies in
> the page that mention the term "contributors" even if this is not a role
> assigned by the OFBiz PMC), I see links to external sites that the ASF is
> monitoring for violations to the ASF and OFBiz trademarks, in general I see
> pages that are a mess and clearly they can't be officially endorsed by the
> project.
> >>>
> >>> Having links to external sites monitored for violations by the ASF is
> clearly an issue which prevents to endorse these pages and link them from
> the main site.
> >>>
> >>> Some time ago, I added a note on top of the
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providerspage
> >>> <<We (OFBiz committers) keep an eye on this list in order to keep
> independent committers and companies with committer(s) at the top of the
> list. Else no order is specifically required so far (we will certainly
> alphabetically order the lists later), thank you>>
> >>>
> >>> Actually, though I wrote "We (OFBiz committers)" it was my own
> decision to monitor and keep this page as clean as possible. Contributor is
> indeed not an official role. It was added by someone and I decided to keep
> the idea. Because it allows to separate contributors from committers in
> this column.
> >>> Maybe the title of the column is not clear?
> >>> Or maybe, as it was before, we should keep only PMC members (IIRW,
> Adrian also added the PMC member role in this list and I followed) and
> committers in this list?
> >>> I thought about adding a new column for contributors, but decided it
> was a bit too much, this could be done also, for the sake of separating
> concerns.
> >>>
> >>> Jacques
> >>>
> >>>>> I believe we should trust the community and if there are issues on
> these pages we should fix those issues, this is our duty.
> >>>> It is good to allocate some space to the community to freely publish
> this kind of information, but this doesn't mean that the PMC has to endorse
> them or fix them.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jacopo
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
>
>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Not only those, but also:
- any23
- APR
- Cassandra
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com>.
Three Apache project examples that have "service provider" page:
Clearly lists "paid support" options, with links to integrators:
http://cayenne.apache.org/support.html
Link from main page to "Professional Services":
http://cocoon.apache.org/1271_1_1.html
This lists committers and contributors with a link to the organization:
http://accumulo.apache.org/people.html
Nick
On 2/20/2014 7:31 AM, Nick Rosser wrote:
> I didn't do an exhaustive search but the Active-MQ project has a link
> to "users":
>
> http://activemq.apache.org/users.html
>
> This is an "internal" doc -- not an external link.
>
> Note that they also have a "Team" link which lists all active
> Committers and Contributors.
>
> And also a "Projects using" link which lists a bunch of projects that
> include the technology.
>
> I haven't specifically found anything that lists the equivalent of
> "service providers" but still maintain that having this is critical
> for an organization considering adopting OFBiz for a bet-your-business
> software solution.
>
> Carousel: all good points being raised -- showing key benefits and
> client usage would be a nice upgrade.
>
>
> On 2/20/2014 5:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> Inline...
>>
>> Le 20/02/2014 10:20, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>> I guess that you could create a patch with the proposed changes and
>>> then create a Jira ticket, then start a voting thread in the dev list.
>>
>> If there are changes in wiki, maybe better to simply discuss them
>> here (or in a Jira indeed to keep things focused) about changes to do
>> and get a consensus on what to do and not. Then any wiki contributor
>> could do it...
>>
>>>
>>> Before we go into it, I anticipate here some conditions that I think
>>> are important:
>>> * I would like to review examples from other ASF projects doing the
>>> same; in this thread it was mentioned that several other projects
>>> are doing the same; I don't have time to research but if a volunteer
>>> could provide a list of projects and URLs of such documents I would
>>> be happy to review them
>>> * remove from the documents any links to external sites that are not
>>> strictly following the ASF trademark guidelines; this includes all
>>> the sites containing the OFBiz name in the domain (e.g. ofbiz.info)
>>
>> I totally second this!
>>
>>> * the link from the OFBiz website should have enough information to
>>> clearly show that the referenced documents are not under the control
>>> of the PMC, but instead they are "open" documents at the disposal of
>>> the public
>>
>> I think it's enough to put the disclaimer in the concerned pages
>>
>>> * the same disclaimer is added at the top of each page
>>> * the documents open in a different tab (i.e. they use the "target"
>>> attribute)
>>> * they are not added to the top navigation bar; my preference would
>>> be to add them to the body of the index page, in this paragraph:
>>>
>>> "For answers to your questions you might find the following
>>> documents useful:
>>> • Documentation
>>> • Documentation - Project Overview
>>> • Documentation - Getting Started"
>>
>> I believe we could add 2 links in the Resources & Tools section (or
>> create a new section?) in the main page as long as there are
>> disclaimers in the concerned pages. The goal is to make these links
>> obvious to users
>>
>>>
>>> * we define clear rules on the format and content of these pages:
>>> define the column and content that each field can contain, the order
>>> of the entries, define if there are minimal requirements for
>>> publishing a company/site, define the amount of text each field can
>>> have, where external links can be defined
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:32 PM, Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> With Hans joining the "yes" vote can we go ahead and action the
>>>> originally proposed change?
>>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>> On 2/19/2014 6:08 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>> BTW, last thought on this about external sites monitored for
>>>>> violation: should we not rather remove than monitor them? Then it
>>>>> would not penalize other sites...
>>>>>
>>>>> This done we could block the page for users who would like to
>>>>> exceed their rights to edit (though I have still to understand how
>>>>> that works, see for instance Pierre's request about Roadmap page
>>>>> access)
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 19/02/2014 11:26, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>>>>> Le 19/02/2014 07:38, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:42 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>>>>>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please could you point the issues you see there?
>>>>>>> The information published in the OFBiz website is official and
>>>>>>> must be endorsed and approved by the OFBiz PMC before its
>>>>>>> publication.
>>>>>>> The information in the Wiki is not; specifically, we do not have
>>>>>>> clear rules that govern the "users" and "providers" list: I can
>>>>>>> add/move my company to the top, someone could decide that only
>>>>>>> companies with committers can appear there (I see now that there
>>>>>>> are several companies in the page that mention the term
>>>>>>> "contributors" even if this is not a role assigned by the OFBiz
>>>>>>> PMC), I see links to external sites that the ASF is monitoring
>>>>>>> for violations to the ASF and OFBiz trademarks, in general I see
>>>>>>> pages that are a mess and clearly they can't be officially
>>>>>>> endorsed by the project.
>>>>>> Having links to external sites monitored for violations by the
>>>>>> ASF is clearly an issue which prevents to endorse these pages and
>>>>>> link them from the main site.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some time ago, I added a note on top of the
>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
>>>>>> page
>>>>>> <<We (OFBiz committers) keep an eye on this list in order to keep
>>>>>> independent committers and companies with committer(s) at the top
>>>>>> of the list. Else no order is specifically required so far (we
>>>>>> will certainly alphabetically order the lists later), thank you>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, though I wrote "We (OFBiz committers)" it was my own
>>>>>> decision to monitor and keep this page as clean as possible.
>>>>>> Contributor is indeed not an official role. It was added by
>>>>>> someone and I decided to keep the idea. Because it allows to
>>>>>> separate contributors from committers in this column.
>>>>>> Maybe the title of the column is not clear?
>>>>>> Or maybe, as it was before, we should keep only PMC members
>>>>>> (IIRW, Adrian also added the PMC member role in this list and I
>>>>>> followed) and committers in this list?
>>>>>> I thought about adding a new column for contributors, but decided
>>>>>> it was a bit too much, this could be done also, for the sake of
>>>>>> separating concerns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe we should trust the community and if there are issues
>>>>>>>> on these pages we should fix those issues, this is our duty.
>>>>>>> It is good to allocate some space to the community to freely
>>>>>>> publish this kind of information, but this doesn't mean that the
>>>>>>> PMC has to endorse them or fix them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com>.
I didn't do an exhaustive search but the Active-MQ project has a link to
"users":
http://activemq.apache.org/users.html
This is an "internal" doc -- not an external link.
Note that they also have a "Team" link which lists all active Committers
and Contributors.
And also a "Projects using" link which lists a bunch of projects that
include the technology.
I haven't specifically found anything that lists the equivalent of
"service providers" but still maintain that having this is critical for
an organization considering adopting OFBiz for a bet-your-business
software solution.
Carousel: all good points being raised -- showing key benefits and
client usage would be a nice upgrade.
On 2/20/2014 5:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> Inline...
>
> Le 20/02/2014 10:20, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>> I guess that you could create a patch with the proposed changes and
>> then create a Jira ticket, then start a voting thread in the dev list.
>
> If there are changes in wiki, maybe better to simply discuss them here
> (or in a Jira indeed to keep things focused) about changes to do and
> get a consensus on what to do and not. Then any wiki contributor could
> do it...
>
>>
>> Before we go into it, I anticipate here some conditions that I think
>> are important:
>> * I would like to review examples from other ASF projects doing the
>> same; in this thread it was mentioned that several other projects are
>> doing the same; I don't have time to research but if a volunteer
>> could provide a list of projects and URLs of such documents I would
>> be happy to review them
>> * remove from the documents any links to external sites that are not
>> strictly following the ASF trademark guidelines; this includes all
>> the sites containing the OFBiz name in the domain (e.g. ofbiz.info)
>
> I totally second this!
>
>> * the link from the OFBiz website should have enough information to
>> clearly show that the referenced documents are not under the control
>> of the PMC, but instead they are "open" documents at the disposal of
>> the public
>
> I think it's enough to put the disclaimer in the concerned pages
>
>> * the same disclaimer is added at the top of each page
>> * the documents open in a different tab (i.e. they use the "target"
>> attribute)
>> * they are not added to the top navigation bar; my preference would
>> be to add them to the body of the index page, in this paragraph:
>>
>> "For answers to your questions you might find the following documents
>> useful:
>> • Documentation
>> • Documentation - Project Overview
>> • Documentation - Getting Started"
>
> I believe we could add 2 links in the Resources & Tools section (or
> create a new section?) in the main page as long as there are
> disclaimers in the concerned pages. The goal is to make these links
> obvious to users
>
>>
>> * we define clear rules on the format and content of these pages:
>> define the column and content that each field can contain, the order
>> of the entries, define if there are minimal requirements for
>> publishing a company/site, define the amount of text each field can
>> have, where external links can be defined
>
> +1
>
> Jacques
>
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:32 PM, Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
>>
>>> With Hans joining the "yes" vote can we go ahead and action the
>>> originally proposed change?
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>> On 2/19/2014 6:08 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>> BTW, last thought on this about external sites monitored for
>>>> violation: should we not rather remove than monitor them? Then it
>>>> would not penalize other sites...
>>>>
>>>> This done we could block the page for users who would like to
>>>> exceed their rights to edit (though I have still to understand how
>>>> that works, see for instance Pierre's request about Roadmap page
>>>> access)
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> Le 19/02/2014 11:26, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>>>> Le 19/02/2014 07:38, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:42 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>>>>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please could you point the issues you see there?
>>>>>> The information published in the OFBiz website is official and
>>>>>> must be endorsed and approved by the OFBiz PMC before its
>>>>>> publication.
>>>>>> The information in the Wiki is not; specifically, we do not have
>>>>>> clear rules that govern the "users" and "providers" list: I can
>>>>>> add/move my company to the top, someone could decide that only
>>>>>> companies with committers can appear there (I see now that there
>>>>>> are several companies in the page that mention the term
>>>>>> "contributors" even if this is not a role assigned by the OFBiz
>>>>>> PMC), I see links to external sites that the ASF is monitoring
>>>>>> for violations to the ASF and OFBiz trademarks, in general I see
>>>>>> pages that are a mess and clearly they can't be officially
>>>>>> endorsed by the project.
>>>>> Having links to external sites monitored for violations by the ASF
>>>>> is clearly an issue which prevents to endorse these pages and link
>>>>> them from the main site.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some time ago, I added a note on top of the
>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
>>>>> page
>>>>> <<We (OFBiz committers) keep an eye on this list in order to keep
>>>>> independent committers and companies with committer(s) at the top
>>>>> of the list. Else no order is specifically required so far (we
>>>>> will certainly alphabetically order the lists later), thank you>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, though I wrote "We (OFBiz committers)" it was my own
>>>>> decision to monitor and keep this page as clean as possible.
>>>>> Contributor is indeed not an official role. It was added by
>>>>> someone and I decided to keep the idea. Because it allows to
>>>>> separate contributors from committers in this column.
>>>>> Maybe the title of the column is not clear?
>>>>> Or maybe, as it was before, we should keep only PMC members (IIRW,
>>>>> Adrian also added the PMC member role in this list and I followed)
>>>>> and committers in this list?
>>>>> I thought about adding a new column for contributors, but decided
>>>>> it was a bit too much, this could be done also, for the sake of
>>>>> separating concerns.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe we should trust the community and if there are issues
>>>>>>> on these pages we should fix those issues, this is our duty.
>>>>>> It is good to allocate some space to the community to freely
>>>>>> publish this kind of information, but this doesn't mean that the
>>>>>> PMC has to endorse them or fix them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Inline...
Le 20/02/2014 10:20, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> I guess that you could create a patch with the proposed changes and then create a Jira ticket, then start a voting thread in the dev list.
If there are changes in wiki, maybe better to simply discuss them here
(or in a Jira indeed to keep things focused) about changes to do and get
a consensus on what to do and not. Then any wiki contributor could do it...
>
> Before we go into it, I anticipate here some conditions that I think are important:
> * I would like to review examples from other ASF projects doing the same; in this thread it was mentioned that several other projects are doing the same; I don't have time to research but if a volunteer could provide a list of projects and URLs of such documents I would be happy to review them
> * remove from the documents any links to external sites that are not strictly following the ASF trademark guidelines; this includes all the sites containing the OFBiz name in the domain (e.g. ofbiz.info)
I totally second this!
> * the link from the OFBiz website should have enough information to clearly show that the referenced documents are not under the control of the PMC, but instead they are "open" documents at the disposal of the public
I think it's enough to put the disclaimer in the concerned pages
> * the same disclaimer is added at the top of each page
> * the documents open in a different tab (i.e. they use the "target" attribute)
> * they are not added to the top navigation bar; my preference would be to add them to the body of the index page, in this paragraph:
>
> "For answers to your questions you might find the following documents useful:
> • Documentation
> • Documentation - Project Overview
> • Documentation - Getting Started"
I believe we could add 2 links in the Resources & Tools section (or
create a new section?) in the main page as long as there are disclaimers
in the concerned pages. The goal is to make these links obvious to users
>
> * we define clear rules on the format and content of these pages: define the column and content that each field can contain, the order of the entries, define if there are minimal requirements for publishing a company/site, define the amount of text each field can have, where external links can be defined
+1
Jacques
>
> Jacopo
>
> On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:32 PM, Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
>
>> With Hans joining the "yes" vote can we go ahead and action the originally proposed change?
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> On 2/19/2014 6:08 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>> BTW, last thought on this about external sites monitored for violation: should we not rather remove than monitor them? Then it would not penalize other sites...
>>>
>>> This done we could block the page for users who would like to exceed their rights to edit (though I have still to understand how that works, see for instance Pierre's request about Roadmap page access)
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> Le 19/02/2014 11:26, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>>> Le 19/02/2014 07:38, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:42 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Please could you point the issues you see there?
>>>>> The information published in the OFBiz website is official and must be endorsed and approved by the OFBiz PMC before its publication.
>>>>> The information in the Wiki is not; specifically, we do not have clear rules that govern the "users" and "providers" list: I can add/move my company to the top, someone could decide that only companies with committers can appear there (I see now that there are several companies in the page that mention the term "contributors" even if this is not a role assigned by the OFBiz PMC), I see links to external sites that the ASF is monitoring for violations to the ASF and OFBiz trademarks, in general I see pages that are a mess and clearly they can't be officially endorsed by the project.
>>>> Having links to external sites monitored for violations by the ASF is clearly an issue which prevents to endorse these pages and link them from the main site.
>>>>
>>>> Some time ago, I added a note on top of the https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers page
>>>> <<We (OFBiz committers) keep an eye on this list in order to keep independent committers and companies with committer(s) at the top of the list. Else no order is specifically required so far (we will certainly alphabetically order the lists later), thank you>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually, though I wrote "We (OFBiz committers)" it was my own decision to monitor and keep this page as clean as possible. Contributor is indeed not an official role. It was added by someone and I decided to keep the idea. Because it allows to separate contributors from committers in this column.
>>>> Maybe the title of the column is not clear?
>>>> Or maybe, as it was before, we should keep only PMC members (IIRW, Adrian also added the PMC member role in this list and I followed) and committers in this list?
>>>> I thought about adding a new column for contributors, but decided it was a bit too much, this could be done also, for the sake of separating concerns.
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>>> I believe we should trust the community and if there are issues on these pages we should fix those issues, this is our duty.
>>>>> It is good to allocate some space to the community to freely publish this kind of information, but this doesn't mean that the PMC has to endorse them or fix them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
I guess that you could create a patch with the proposed changes and then create a Jira ticket, then start a voting thread in the dev list.
Before we go into it, I anticipate here some conditions that I think are important:
* I would like to review examples from other ASF projects doing the same; in this thread it was mentioned that several other projects are doing the same; I don't have time to research but if a volunteer could provide a list of projects and URLs of such documents I would be happy to review them
* remove from the documents any links to external sites that are not strictly following the ASF trademark guidelines; this includes all the sites containing the OFBiz name in the domain (e.g. ofbiz.info)
* the link from the OFBiz website should have enough information to clearly show that the referenced documents are not under the control of the PMC, but instead they are "open" documents at the disposal of the public
* the same disclaimer is added at the top of each page
* the documents open in a different tab (i.e. they use the "target" attribute)
* they are not added to the top navigation bar; my preference would be to add them to the body of the index page, in this paragraph:
"For answers to your questions you might find the following documents useful:
• Documentation
• Documentation - Project Overview
• Documentation - Getting Started"
* we define clear rules on the format and content of these pages: define the column and content that each field can contain, the order of the entries, define if there are minimal requirements for publishing a company/site, define the amount of text each field can have, where external links can be defined
Jacopo
On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:32 PM, Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
> With Hans joining the "yes" vote can we go ahead and action the originally proposed change?
>
> Nick
>
> On 2/19/2014 6:08 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> BTW, last thought on this about external sites monitored for violation: should we not rather remove than monitor them? Then it would not penalize other sites...
>>
>> This done we could block the page for users who would like to exceed their rights to edit (though I have still to understand how that works, see for instance Pierre's request about Roadmap page access)
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 19/02/2014 11:26, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>> Le 19/02/2014 07:38, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:42 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Please could you point the issues you see there?
>>>> The information published in the OFBiz website is official and must be endorsed and approved by the OFBiz PMC before its publication.
>>>> The information in the Wiki is not; specifically, we do not have clear rules that govern the "users" and "providers" list: I can add/move my company to the top, someone could decide that only companies with committers can appear there (I see now that there are several companies in the page that mention the term "contributors" even if this is not a role assigned by the OFBiz PMC), I see links to external sites that the ASF is monitoring for violations to the ASF and OFBiz trademarks, in general I see pages that are a mess and clearly they can't be officially endorsed by the project.
>>>
>>> Having links to external sites monitored for violations by the ASF is clearly an issue which prevents to endorse these pages and link them from the main site.
>>>
>>> Some time ago, I added a note on top of the https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers page
>>> <<We (OFBiz committers) keep an eye on this list in order to keep independent committers and companies with committer(s) at the top of the list. Else no order is specifically required so far (we will certainly alphabetically order the lists later), thank you>>
>>>
>>> Actually, though I wrote "We (OFBiz committers)" it was my own decision to monitor and keep this page as clean as possible. Contributor is indeed not an official role. It was added by someone and I decided to keep the idea. Because it allows to separate contributors from committers in this column.
>>> Maybe the title of the column is not clear?
>>> Or maybe, as it was before, we should keep only PMC members (IIRW, Adrian also added the PMC member role in this list and I followed) and committers in this list?
>>> I thought about adding a new column for contributors, but decided it was a bit too much, this could be done also, for the sake of separating concerns.
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>>> I believe we should trust the community and if there are issues on these pages we should fix those issues, this is our duty.
>>>> It is good to allocate some space to the community to freely publish this kind of information, but this doesn't mean that the PMC has to endorse them or fix them.
>>>>
>>>> Jacopo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com>.
With Hans joining the "yes" vote can we go ahead and action the
originally proposed change?
Nick
On 2/19/2014 6:08 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> BTW, last thought on this about external sites monitored for
> violation: should we not rather remove than monitor them? Then it
> would not penalize other sites...
>
> This done we could block the page for users who would like to exceed
> their rights to edit (though I have still to understand how that
> works, see for instance Pierre's request about Roadmap page access)
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 19/02/2014 11:26, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>> Le 19/02/2014 07:38, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:42 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please could you point the issues you see there?
>>> The information published in the OFBiz website is official and must
>>> be endorsed and approved by the OFBiz PMC before its publication.
>>> The information in the Wiki is not; specifically, we do not have
>>> clear rules that govern the "users" and "providers" list: I can
>>> add/move my company to the top, someone could decide that only
>>> companies with committers can appear there (I see now that there are
>>> several companies in the page that mention the term "contributors"
>>> even if this is not a role assigned by the OFBiz PMC), I see links
>>> to external sites that the ASF is monitoring for violations to the
>>> ASF and OFBiz trademarks, in general I see pages that are a mess and
>>> clearly they can't be officially endorsed by the project.
>>
>> Having links to external sites monitored for violations by the ASF is
>> clearly an issue which prevents to endorse these pages and link them
>> from the main site.
>>
>> Some time ago, I added a note on top of the
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
>> page
>> <<We (OFBiz committers) keep an eye on this list in order to keep
>> independent committers and companies with committer(s) at the top of
>> the list. Else no order is specifically required so far (we will
>> certainly alphabetically order the lists later), thank you>>
>>
>> Actually, though I wrote "We (OFBiz committers)" it was my own
>> decision to monitor and keep this page as clean as possible.
>> Contributor is indeed not an official role. It was added by someone
>> and I decided to keep the idea. Because it allows to separate
>> contributors from committers in this column.
>> Maybe the title of the column is not clear?
>> Or maybe, as it was before, we should keep only PMC members (IIRW,
>> Adrian also added the PMC member role in this list and I followed)
>> and committers in this list?
>> I thought about adding a new column for contributors, but decided it
>> was a bit too much, this could be done also, for the sake of
>> separating concerns.
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>>> I believe we should trust the community and if there are issues on
>>>> these pages we should fix those issues, this is our duty.
>>> It is good to allocate some space to the community to freely publish
>>> this kind of information, but this doesn't mean that the PMC has to
>>> endorse them or fix them.
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
BTW, last thought on this about external sites monitored for violation:
should we not rather remove than monitor them? Then it would not
penalize other sites...
This done we could block the page for users who would like to exceed
their rights to edit (though I have still to understand how that works,
see for instance Pierre's request about Roadmap page access)
Jacques
Le 19/02/2014 11:26, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
> Le 19/02/2014 07:38, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:42 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Please could you point the issues you see there?
>> The information published in the OFBiz website is official and must
>> be endorsed and approved by the OFBiz PMC before its publication.
>> The information in the Wiki is not; specifically, we do not have
>> clear rules that govern the "users" and "providers" list: I can
>> add/move my company to the top, someone could decide that only
>> companies with committers can appear there (I see now that there are
>> several companies in the page that mention the term "contributors"
>> even if this is not a role assigned by the OFBiz PMC), I see links to
>> external sites that the ASF is monitoring for violations to the ASF
>> and OFBiz trademarks, in general I see pages that are a mess and
>> clearly they can't be officially endorsed by the project.
>
> Having links to external sites monitored for violations by the ASF is
> clearly an issue which prevents to endorse these pages and link them
> from the main site.
>
> Some time ago, I added a note on top of the
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
> page
> <<We (OFBiz committers) keep an eye on this list in order to keep
> independent committers and companies with committer(s) at the top of
> the list. Else no order is specifically required so far (we will
> certainly alphabetically order the lists later), thank you>>
>
> Actually, though I wrote "We (OFBiz committers)" it was my own
> decision to monitor and keep this page as clean as possible.
> Contributor is indeed not an official role. It was added by someone
> and I decided to keep the idea. Because it allows to separate
> contributors from committers in this column.
> Maybe the title of the column is not clear?
> Or maybe, as it was before, we should keep only PMC members (IIRW,
> Adrian also added the PMC member role in this list and I followed) and
> committers in this list?
> I thought about adding a new column for contributors, but decided it
> was a bit too much, this could be done also, for the sake of
> separating concerns.
>
> Jacques
>
>>> I believe we should trust the community and if there are issues on
>>> these pages we should fix those issues, this is our duty.
>> It is good to allocate some space to the community to freely publish
>> this kind of information, but this doesn't mean that the PMC has to
>> endorse them or fix them.
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 19/02/2014 07:38, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:42 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> Please could you point the issues you see there?
> The information published in the OFBiz website is official and must be endorsed and approved by the OFBiz PMC before its publication.
> The information in the Wiki is not; specifically, we do not have clear rules that govern the "users" and "providers" list: I can add/move my company to the top, someone could decide that only companies with committers can appear there (I see now that there are several companies in the page that mention the term "contributors" even if this is not a role assigned by the OFBiz PMC), I see links to external sites that the ASF is monitoring for violations to the ASF and OFBiz trademarks, in general I see pages that are a mess and clearly they can't be officially endorsed by the project.
Having links to external sites monitored for violations by the ASF is
clearly an issue which prevents to endorse these pages and link them
from the main site.
Some time ago, I added a note on top of the
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
page
<<We (OFBiz committers) keep an eye on this list in order to keep
independent committers and companies with committer(s) at the top of the
list. Else no order is specifically required so far (we will certainly
alphabetically order the lists later), thank you>>
Actually, though I wrote "We (OFBiz committers)" it was my own decision
to monitor and keep this page as clean as possible. Contributor is
indeed not an official role. It was added by someone and I decided to
keep the idea. Because it allows to separate contributors from
committers in this column.
Maybe the title of the column is not clear?
Or maybe, as it was before, we should keep only PMC members (IIRW,
Adrian also added the PMC member role in this list and I followed) and
committers in this list?
I thought about adding a new column for contributors, but decided it
was a bit too much, this could be done also, for the sake of separating
concerns.
Jacques
>> I believe we should trust the community and if there are issues on these pages we should fix those issues, this is our duty.
> It is good to allocate some space to the community to freely publish this kind of information, but this doesn't mean that the PMC has to endorse them or fix them.
>
> Jacopo
>
>
>
>
>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:42 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> Please could you point the issues you see there?
The information published in the OFBiz website is official and must be endorsed and approved by the OFBiz PMC before its publication.
The information in the Wiki is not; specifically, we do not have clear rules that govern the "users" and "providers" list: I can add/move my company to the top, someone could decide that only companies with committers can appear there (I see now that there are several companies in the page that mention the term "contributors" even if this is not a role assigned by the OFBiz PMC), I see links to external sites that the ASF is monitoring for violations to the ASF and OFBiz trademarks, in general I see pages that are a mess and clearly they can't be officially endorsed by the project.
> I believe we should trust the community and if there are issues on these pages we should fix those issues, this is our duty.
It is good to allocate some space to the community to freely publish this kind of information, but this doesn't mean that the PMC has to endorse them or fix them.
Jacopo
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 18/02/2014 10:54, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> On Feb 17, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
>
>> So what's the final word on this?
>>
>> Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change.
> This doesn't seem an accurate summary of the feedback received: Jacques and Pierre expressed a positive feedback; Christian seems neutral; I am against; no one else expressed an opinion yet.
> It is really too early to come up to such a conclusion.
I did not express a positive feedback, I simply noted that Nick was
right about not being a load issue. So basically I'm still neutral.
>> Can we get it done?
> I understand that companies are interested in getting free marketing (SEO etc..) from independent and authoritative sources like the official OFBiz site and the ASF in general, and this adds some pressure on the OFBiz PMC and project. However, as I already stated, I will be against any changes, e.g., adding a link on the "top menu", that may convey the impression that the project officially supports or even approves any content on which there is no control, e.g., the content of wiki documents.
I don't agree that we (PMC) have no control on the wiki. I monitor any
change on Confluence and when I disagree I react.
> Specifically, the links you want to add in the top menu point to the following documents:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+User+List
>
> for which there is no control or rules on who, what and how information can be published, and there are links that potentially violate the trademarks policy of OFBIZ and ASF.
> After a cursory review of the content of these documents I would be even tempted to propose the removal of the links from the documentation page, rather than adding them to the top menu (and I am a bit surprised to see that a PMC member may be in favor of adding them there).
Please could you point the issues you see there? I believe we should
trust the community and if there are issues on these pages we should fix
those issues, this is our duty.
Jacques
>
> Regards,
>
> Jacopo
>
>> Nick
>>
>> On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of the
>>> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail& Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>>> jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The project doesn't have much control over the information published in
>>>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that may
>>>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
>>>> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
>>>> current website is the result of those.
>>>>
>>>> Jacopo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think you have a point Nick,
>>>>>
>>>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence indeed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
>>>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from the
>>>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress any
>>>>>> server.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>> I agree with the above.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also
>>>> attract
>>>>>>> some more participation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>>>>>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>> Services and Retail& Trade
>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
>>>> remember
>>>>>>>> clearly...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are others opinions?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
>>>>>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are
>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
>>>> product
>>>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
>>>> bottom of
>>>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
>>>>>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>>>> Download
>>>>>>>>> Community
>>>>>>>>> Service Providers
>>>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nick
>
>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
On Feb 17, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com> wrote:
> So what's the final word on this?
>
> Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change.
This doesn't seem an accurate summary of the feedback received: Jacques and Pierre expressed a positive feedback; Christian seems neutral; I am against; no one else expressed an opinion yet.
It is really too early to come up to such a conclusion.
> Can we get it done?
I understand that companies are interested in getting free marketing (SEO etc..) from independent and authoritative sources like the official OFBiz site and the ASF in general, and this adds some pressure on the OFBiz PMC and project. However, as I already stated, I will be against any changes, e.g., adding a link on the "top menu", that may convey the impression that the project officially supports or even approves any content on which there is no control, e.g., the content of wiki documents.
Specifically, the links you want to add in the top menu point to the following documents:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+User+List
for which there is no control or rules on who, what and how information can be published, and there are links that potentially violate the trademarks policy of OFBIZ and ASF.
After a cursory review of the content of these documents I would be even tempted to propose the removal of the links from the documentation page, rather than adding them to the top menu (and I am a bit surprised to see that a PMC member may be in favor of adding them there).
Regards,
Jacopo
>
> Nick
>
> On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of the
>> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail& Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>> jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The project doesn't have much control over the information published in
>>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that may
>>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
>>> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
>>> current website is the result of those.
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think you have a point Nick,
>>>>
>>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence indeed.
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
>>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>>>>>
>>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from the
>>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress any
>>>>> server.
>>>>>
>>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>> I agree with the above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also
>>> attract
>>>>>> some more participation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>>>>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>> Services and Retail& Trade
>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
>>> remember
>>>>>>> clearly...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are others opinions?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
>>>>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are
>>> --
>>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
>>> product
>>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
>>> bottom of
>>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
>>>>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that
>>> the
>>>>>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>>> Download
>>>>>>>> Community
>>>>>>>> Service Providers
>>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nick
>>>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com>.
So what's the final word on this?
Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change. Can we get it done?
Nick
On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of the
> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail& Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
> jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>
>> The project doesn't have much control over the information published in
>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that may
>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
>> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
>> current website is the result of those.
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>>
>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think you have a point Nick,
>>>
>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence indeed.
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>>>>
>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from the
>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress any
>>>> server.
>>>>
>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>>>>
>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>> I agree with the above.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also
>> attract
>>>>> some more participation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>>>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>> Services and Retail& Trade
>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
>> remember
>>>>>> clearly...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are others opinions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
>>>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are
>> --
>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
>> product
>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
>> bottom of
>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
>>>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that
>> the
>>>>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>> Download
>>>>>>> Community
>>>>>>> Service Providers
>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nick
>>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of the
website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
> The project doesn't have much control over the information published in
> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that may
> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
> current website is the result of those.
>
> Jacopo
>
>
> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
> > I think you have a point Nick,
> >
> > We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence indeed.
> >
> > Jacques
> >
> > On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
> >> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
> >>
> >> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from the
> >> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress any
> >> server.
> >>
> >> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
> >>
> >> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >>> I agree with the above.
> >>>
> >>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also
> attract
> >>> some more participation.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Pierre Smits
> >>>
> >>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
> >>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
> >>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>> Services and Retail& Trade
> >>> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
> >>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
> >>>>
> >>>> This was a bit like that before,
> >>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
> >>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
> remember
> >>>> clearly...
> >>>>
> >>>> What are others opinions?
> >>>>
> >>>> Jacques
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
> >>>>> All,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
> >>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
> >>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are
> --
> >>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
> product
> >>>>> or service will well supported.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
> bottom of
> >>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
> >>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
> >>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that
> the
> >>>>> main navigation is:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Home
> >>>>> Download
> >>>>> Community
> >>>>> Service Providers
> >>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
> >>>>> Documentation
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nick
>
>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
The project doesn't have much control over the information published in the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that may imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and discussions around what was published in the official website and the current website is the result of those.
Jacopo
On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> I think you have a point Nick,
>
> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence indeed.
>
> Jacques
>
> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>>
>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from the
>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress any
>> server.
>>
>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>>
>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>> I agree with the above.
>>>
>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also attract
>>> some more participation.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail& Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>>
>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't remember
>>>> clearly...
>>>>
>>>> What are others opinions?
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are --
>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the product
>>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>>
>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the bottom of
>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that the
>>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>>
>>>>> Home
>>>>> Download
>>>>> Community
>>>>> Service Providers
>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>
>>>>> Nick
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
I think you have a point Nick,
We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence indeed.
Jacques
On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>
> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from the
> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress any
> server.
>
> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>
> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>> I agree with the above.
>>
>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also attract
>> some more participation.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail& Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>
>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't remember
>>> clearly...
>>>
>>> What are others opinions?
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>
>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are --
>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the product
>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>
>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the bottom of
>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>
>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that the
>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>
>>>> Home
>>>> Download
>>>> Community
>>>> Service Providers
>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>> Documentation
>>>>
>>>> Nick
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Nick Rosser <nr...@solveda.com>.
Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
I did see a response about the original change to omit these from the
home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress any
server.
If there is general agreement who can make the change?
On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> I agree with the above.
>
> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also attract
> some more participation.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
> Services& Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail& Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>
>> This was a bit like that before,
>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't remember
>> clearly...
>>
>> What are others opinions?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
>>> All,
>>>
>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>
>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are --
>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the product
>>> or service will well supported.
>>>
>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the bottom of
>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>
>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that the
>>> main navigation is:
>>>
>>> Home
>>> Download
>>> Community
>>> Service Providers
>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>> Documentation
>>>
>>> Nick
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
I agree with the above.
Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also attract
some more participation.
Regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>
> This was a bit like that before,
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't remember
> clearly...
>
> What are others opinions?
>
> Jacques
>
> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
> > All,
> >
> > Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
> > "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
> >
> > If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
> > site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are --
> > as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the product
> > or service will well supported.
> >
> > For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the bottom of
> > that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
> > "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
> > list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
> >
> > Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that the
> > main navigation is:
> >
> > Home
> > Download
> > Community
> > Service Providers
> > Who is using OFBiz?
> > Documentation
> >
> > Nick
>
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
That sounds a good marketing idea to me
This was a bit like that before, http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't remember clearly...
What are others opinions?
Jacques
On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, nrosser@solveda.com wrote
> All,
>
> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>
> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are --
> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the product
> or service will well supported.
>
> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the bottom of
> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>
> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that the
> main navigation is:
>
> Home
> Download
> Community
> Service Providers
> Who is using OFBiz?
> Documentation
>
> Nick
Re: OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End
Users
Posted by Christian Geisert <ch...@isu-gmbh.de>.
Am 05.02.2014 14:40, schrieb Nick Rosser:
> All,
>
> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>
> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are --
> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the product
> or service will well supported.
>
> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the bottom of
> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>
> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that the
> main navigation is:
I absolutely agree with you but if I remember correctly the links were
removed because there shouldn't be any links from the homepage to the
Wiki because this could cause too much traffic for the Wiki...
Ah yes: http://markmail.org/thread/fejr5olvi6ggq53h
I don't know if this is really is a problem - we could ask Infra or move
parts of the Wiki to the CMS
Christian