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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net> on 2016/01/27 18:25:44 UTC
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Beam Incubator Proposal (was Apache Dataflow
Incubator Proposal)
Hi James,
As discussed together, I like the name. Let me update the proposal wiki.
Thanks !
Regards
JB
On 01/27/2016 06:22 PM, James Malone wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Based on the feedback concerning naming, we would like to rename the
> proposal and the project. We want to do this early to ensure we don't
> disrupt the project based on naming. To that end, the name we propose to
> use is:
>
> Apache Beam
>
> The name Beam is based on a joining of Batch and strEAM to showcase the
> unified nature of the model and tools. We also wanted to select a name
> which is simple, memorable, and also not already in use.
>
> Best,
>
> James
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 2:07 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> wrote:
>
>> It makes perfect sense, and it's something that we already discussed.
>>
>> Thanks James and Marvin.
>>
>> @James, yes, we are going to deal with that together, not a problem at
>> all. I agree that renaming should happen now.
>> As discussed, we should be back with a new name early next week.
>>
>> I'm happy to see the discussion now (and thanks again Marvin for details
>> and always helpful messages): it's exactly the purpose of sending the
>> discussion thread on the incubator mailing list.
>>
>> Thanks guys !
>>
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>>
>> On 01/22/2016 02:19 AM, James Malone wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for such a detailed response Marvin!
>>>
>>> Everything you mention makes a lot of sense. Needless to say, we don't
>>> want
>>> to squander cycles, break any rules, or throw velocity into disarray all
>>> due to a name.
>>>
>>> To that end, I am going to work with JB to amend the proposal with respect
>>> to renaming. I'm also going to clarify a name change would be an
>>> immediate-term to-do item so it does not block creation creation of lists,
>>> repositories, and so on.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> I am going to work with JB to amend the proposal to indicate
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 9:30 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 3:30 PM, James Malone
>>>> <ja...@google.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If we need to rename, we would ideally choose a new name, change the
>>>>> project name at that time, and start our refactoring with that new name.
>>>>>
>>>> Is
>>>>
>>>>> is acceptable for us to flag a name change as something we need to do as
>>>>>
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>>> near-term (1st month) item in incubation (if accepted)? If a rename is
>>>>> required I'd like to add it to our to-do roadmap but also not block our
>>>>> proposal on a renaming. I ask so we can address this concern in the best
>>>>> way possible.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's acceptable. Project naming issues do not block entry into the
>>>> Incubator, they block graduation from the Incubator.
>>>>
>>>> Because "dataflow" is descriptive, it will be hard to defend as
>>>> a trademark. The Wikipedia article on trademark distinctiveness explains
>>>> things well:
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark_distinctiveness
>>>>
>>>> A weak mark both increases the amount of volunteer effort that goes
>>>> into dealing with infringement cases and makes bad outcomes more likely.
>>>> It is not an absolute requirement that Apache projects have defensible
>>>> names,
>>>> but painful past experience has taught us that mishandled branding can
>>>> deal
>>>> surprising amounts of damage to a project community.
>>>>
>>>> But beyond that, the issue of "Google Cloud Dataflow" vs. "Apache
>>>> Dataflow" is
>>>> a blocker. One or the other will have to be renamed, and since the
>>>> software
>>>> is being donated but apparently not the brand, it sounds like renaming
>>>> the
>>>> prospective Apache project will be required and you should add that task
>>>> to
>>>> your roadmap.
>>>>
>>>> Changing names in the middle of incubation is disruptive because it
>>>> requires
>>>> renaming infrastructure resources, impacting both the Apache
>>>> Infrastructure
>>>> team and also the podling's developer and user communities. My
>>>> suggestion
>>>> would be that immediately after the VOTE to enter incubation concludes,
>>>> you
>>>> only create a dev mailing list and deal with the renaming immediately,
>>>> delaying the creation of other resources until after the renaming is
>>>> resolved.
>>>> However, the exact plan is something you can work out with your Mentors.
>>>>
>>>> Marvin Humphrey
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> jbonofre@apache.org
>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Beam Incubator Proposal (was Apache Dataflow
Incubator Proposal)
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hey Hadrian,
welcome aboard ;) I added you on the proposal.
And thanks for your support.
Regards
JB
On 01/28/2016 01:55 AM, Hadrian Zbarcea wrote:
> Hi JB,
>
> I was on the fence, because there are already so many contributors and
> one can contribute without being on the proposal. But then, because this
> proposal is impressive in the level of support received, I thought I'd
> throw my hat in as well (because I really see myself actually
> contributing code). So if you don't mind add me to the proposal too.
>
> It is quite unique and interesting to see one project with such
> overwhelming support in the incubator.
>
> Cheers,
> Hadrian
>
>
> On 01/27/2016 12:25 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
>> Hi James,
>>
>> As discussed together, I like the name. Let me update the proposal wiki.
>>
>> Thanks !
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>> On 01/27/2016 06:22 PM, James Malone wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> Based on the feedback concerning naming, we would like to rename the
>>> proposal and the project. We want to do this early to ensure we don't
>>> disrupt the project based on naming. To that end, the name we propose to
>>> use is:
>>>
>>> Apache Beam
>>>
>>> The name Beam is based on a joining of Batch and strEAM to showcase the
>>> unified nature of the model and tools. We also wanted to select a name
>>> which is simple, memorable, and also not already in use.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 2:07 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It makes perfect sense, and it's something that we already discussed.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks James and Marvin.
>>>>
>>>> @James, yes, we are going to deal with that together, not a problem at
>>>> all. I agree that renaming should happen now.
>>>> As discussed, we should be back with a new name early next week.
>>>>
>>>> I'm happy to see the discussion now (and thanks again Marvin for
>>>> details
>>>> and always helpful messages): it's exactly the purpose of sending the
>>>> discussion thread on the incubator mailing list.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks guys !
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> JB
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 01/22/2016 02:19 AM, James Malone wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for such a detailed response Marvin!
>>>>>
>>>>> Everything you mention makes a lot of sense. Needless to say, we don't
>>>>> want
>>>>> to squander cycles, break any rules, or throw velocity into disarray
>>>>> all
>>>>> due to a name.
>>>>>
>>>>> To that end, I am going to work with JB to amend the proposal with
>>>>> respect
>>>>> to renaming. I'm also going to clarify a name change would be an
>>>>> immediate-term to-do item so it does not block creation creation of
>>>>> lists,
>>>>> repositories, and so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> James
>>>>>
>>>>> I am going to work with JB to amend the proposal to indicate
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 9:30 AM, Marvin Humphrey
>>>>> <ma...@rectangular.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 3:30 PM, James Malone
>>>>>> <ja...@google.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If we need to rename, we would ideally choose a new name, change the
>>>>>>> project name at that time, and start our refactoring with that new
>>>>>>> name.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is acceptable for us to flag a name change as something we need to
>>>>>>> do as
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> near-term (1st month) item in incubation (if accepted)? If a
>>>>>>> rename is
>>>>>>> required I'd like to add it to our to-do roadmap but also not
>>>>>>> block our
>>>>>>> proposal on a renaming. I ask so we can address this concern in
>>>>>>> the best
>>>>>>> way possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's acceptable. Project naming issues do not block entry into the
>>>>>> Incubator, they block graduation from the Incubator.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because "dataflow" is descriptive, it will be hard to defend as
>>>>>> a trademark. The Wikipedia article on trademark distinctiveness
>>>>>> explains
>>>>>> things well:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark_distinctiveness
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A weak mark both increases the amount of volunteer effort that goes
>>>>>> into dealing with infringement cases and makes bad outcomes more
>>>>>> likely.
>>>>>> It is not an absolute requirement that Apache projects have
>>>>>> defensible
>>>>>> names,
>>>>>> but painful past experience has taught us that mishandled branding
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> deal
>>>>>> surprising amounts of damage to a project community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But beyond that, the issue of "Google Cloud Dataflow" vs. "Apache
>>>>>> Dataflow" is
>>>>>> a blocker. One or the other will have to be renamed, and since the
>>>>>> software
>>>>>> is being donated but apparently not the brand, it sounds like
>>>>>> renaming
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> prospective Apache project will be required and you should add that
>>>>>> task
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> your roadmap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Changing names in the middle of incubation is disruptive because it
>>>>>> requires
>>>>>> renaming infrastructure resources, impacting both the Apache
>>>>>> Infrastructure
>>>>>> team and also the podling's developer and user communities. My
>>>>>> suggestion
>>>>>> would be that immediately after the VOTE to enter incubation
>>>>>> concludes,
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> only create a dev mailing list and deal with the renaming
>>>>>> immediately,
>>>>>> delaying the creation of other resources until after the renaming is
>>>>>> resolved.
>>>>>> However, the exact plan is something you can work out with your
>>>>>> Mentors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marvin Humphrey
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Beam Incubator Proposal (was Apache Dataflow
Incubator Proposal)
Posted by Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com>.
Hi JB,
I was on the fence, because there are already so many contributors and
one can contribute without being on the proposal. But then, because this
proposal is impressive in the level of support received, I thought I'd
throw my hat in as well (because I really see myself actually
contributing code). So if you don't mind add me to the proposal too.
It is quite unique and interesting to see one project with such
overwhelming support in the incubator.
Cheers,
Hadrian
On 01/27/2016 12:25 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
> Hi James,
>
> As discussed together, I like the name. Let me update the proposal wiki.
>
> Thanks !
> Regards
> JB
>
> On 01/27/2016 06:22 PM, James Malone wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Based on the feedback concerning naming, we would like to rename the
>> proposal and the project. We want to do this early to ensure we don't
>> disrupt the project based on naming. To that end, the name we propose to
>> use is:
>>
>> Apache Beam
>>
>> The name Beam is based on a joining of Batch and strEAM to showcase the
>> unified nature of the model and tools. We also wanted to select a name
>> which is simple, memorable, and also not already in use.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 2:07 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It makes perfect sense, and it's something that we already discussed.
>>>
>>> Thanks James and Marvin.
>>>
>>> @James, yes, we are going to deal with that together, not a problem at
>>> all. I agree that renaming should happen now.
>>> As discussed, we should be back with a new name early next week.
>>>
>>> I'm happy to see the discussion now (and thanks again Marvin for details
>>> and always helpful messages): it's exactly the purpose of sending the
>>> discussion thread on the incubator mailing list.
>>>
>>> Thanks guys !
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/22/2016 02:19 AM, James Malone wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you for such a detailed response Marvin!
>>>>
>>>> Everything you mention makes a lot of sense. Needless to say, we don't
>>>> want
>>>> to squander cycles, break any rules, or throw velocity into disarray
>>>> all
>>>> due to a name.
>>>>
>>>> To that end, I am going to work with JB to amend the proposal with
>>>> respect
>>>> to renaming. I'm also going to clarify a name change would be an
>>>> immediate-term to-do item so it does not block creation creation of
>>>> lists,
>>>> repositories, and so on.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> I am going to work with JB to amend the proposal to indicate
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 9:30 AM, Marvin Humphrey
>>>> <ma...@rectangular.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 3:30 PM, James Malone
>>>>> <ja...@google.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If we need to rename, we would ideally choose a new name, change the
>>>>>> project name at that time, and start our refactoring with that new
>>>>>> name.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Is
>>>>>
>>>>>> is acceptable for us to flag a name change as something we need to
>>>>>> do as
>>>>>>
>>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>>> near-term (1st month) item in incubation (if accepted)? If a
>>>>>> rename is
>>>>>> required I'd like to add it to our to-do roadmap but also not
>>>>>> block our
>>>>>> proposal on a renaming. I ask so we can address this concern in
>>>>>> the best
>>>>>> way possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's acceptable. Project naming issues do not block entry into the
>>>>> Incubator, they block graduation from the Incubator.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because "dataflow" is descriptive, it will be hard to defend as
>>>>> a trademark. The Wikipedia article on trademark distinctiveness
>>>>> explains
>>>>> things well:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark_distinctiveness
>>>>>
>>>>> A weak mark both increases the amount of volunteer effort that goes
>>>>> into dealing with infringement cases and makes bad outcomes more
>>>>> likely.
>>>>> It is not an absolute requirement that Apache projects have defensible
>>>>> names,
>>>>> but painful past experience has taught us that mishandled branding can
>>>>> deal
>>>>> surprising amounts of damage to a project community.
>>>>>
>>>>> But beyond that, the issue of "Google Cloud Dataflow" vs. "Apache
>>>>> Dataflow" is
>>>>> a blocker. One or the other will have to be renamed, and since the
>>>>> software
>>>>> is being donated but apparently not the brand, it sounds like renaming
>>>>> the
>>>>> prospective Apache project will be required and you should add that
>>>>> task
>>>>> to
>>>>> your roadmap.
>>>>>
>>>>> Changing names in the middle of incubation is disruptive because it
>>>>> requires
>>>>> renaming infrastructure resources, impacting both the Apache
>>>>> Infrastructure
>>>>> team and also the podling's developer and user communities. My
>>>>> suggestion
>>>>> would be that immediately after the VOTE to enter incubation
>>>>> concludes,
>>>>> you
>>>>> only create a dev mailing list and deal with the renaming immediately,
>>>>> delaying the creation of other resources until after the renaming is
>>>>> resolved.
>>>>> However, the exact plan is something you can work out with your
>>>>> Mentors.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marvin Humphrey
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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