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Posted to dev@chemistry.apache.org by Jeff Potts <je...@gmail.com> on 2011/02/01 22:10:46 UTC
cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Just an FYI in case you are wondering. The vote to approve the cmislib 0.4 incubating release was sent to the IPMC a week ago and has still only received one binding vote (Nick's). I sent a second reminder to the general incubator group today so hopefully that will cause something to happen.
Gab said he had a vote that took a week to get approved so I guess this is normal, but it seems painfully slow to me.
Jeff
Re: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:10 PM, Jeff Potts <je...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just an FYI in case you are wondering. The vote to approve the cmislib 0.4
> incubating release was sent to the IPMC a week ago and has still only
> received one binding vote (Nick's). I sent a second reminder to the general
> incubator group today so hopefully that will cause something to happen.
Sorry about my lack of action here, I somehow assumed I had voted already.
> Gab said he had a vote that took a week to get approved so I guess this is
> normal, but it seems painfully slow to me.
Yep, it's annoying. The basic idea is that each podling should have at
least three active mentors, whose votes should cover the formal
requirement of three +1s from the IPMC. That's why non-mentors often
don't pay too much attention to release votes on general@. :-(
Anyway, as soon as we've got this vote passed I think it's time for
Chemistry to graduate. After that there'll be no need to involve the
IPMC in release votes.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
Re: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Posted by Stefane Fermigier <sf...@nuxeo.com>.
OK, thanks, it's clearer.
But I still think it would be even clearer (and more transparent) with a web app.
S.
On Feb 1, 2011, at 10:52 PM, Nick Burch wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, Stefane Fermigier wrote:
>> On Feb 1, 2011, at 10:38 PM, Jeff Potts wrote:
>>> I used this list:
>>> http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#incubator-pmc
>>>
>>> And saw that you were not on it, which is why I did not count you for the IPMC vote.
>>
>> 1. Am I supposed to be on it or not ? In other words, who's supposed to be on this list, if not the commiters ?
>
> You're on the Chemistry PPMC, but not on the Incubator IPMC.
>
>> 2. Why am I asked to vote for something if my vote doesn't count ?
>
> Your vote does count, just not yet for everything. For the release vote to pass, it needs to get approval from both the Chemistry PPMC, and also from the IPMC.
>
> The IPMC is there to provide oversight until graduation. After graduation, the Chemistry PMC will be the only votes required. (The Chemistry PMC will be initially made up of everyone on your PPMC, but after that you can vote more people onto it as and when new people get involved in the project)
>
> Remember that everything the IPMC flags up now, the graduated Chemistry PMC will be responsible for checking and flagging up on future graduate releases!
>
> Nick
--
Stefane Fermigier, Founder and Chairman, Nuxeo
Open Source, Java EE based, Enterprise Content Management (ECM)
http://www.nuxeo.com/ - +33 1 40 33 79 87 - http://twitter.com/sfermigier
Join the Nuxeo Group on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/groups?gid=43314
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"There's no such thing as can't. You always have a choice."
Re: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Posted by Nick Burch <ni...@alfresco.com>.
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, Stefane Fermigier wrote:
> On Feb 1, 2011, at 10:38 PM, Jeff Potts wrote:
>> I used this list:
>> http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#incubator-pmc
>>
>> And saw that you were not on it, which is why I did not count you for
>> the IPMC vote.
>
> 1. Am I supposed to be on it or not ? In other words, who's supposed to
> be on this list, if not the commiters ?
You're on the Chemistry PPMC, but not on the Incubator IPMC.
> 2. Why am I asked to vote for something if my vote doesn't count ?
Your vote does count, just not yet for everything. For the release vote to
pass, it needs to get approval from both the Chemistry PPMC, and also from
the IPMC.
The IPMC is there to provide oversight until graduation. After graduation,
the Chemistry PMC will be the only votes required. (The Chemistry PMC will
be initially made up of everyone on your PPMC, but after that you can vote
more people onto it as and when new people get involved in the project)
Remember that everything the IPMC flags up now, the graduated Chemistry
PMC will be responsible for checking and flagging up on future graduate
releases!
Nick
Re: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Posted by Stefane Fermigier <sf...@nuxeo.com>.
On Feb 1, 2011, at 10:38 PM, Jeff Potts wrote:
> I used this list:
> http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#incubator-pmc
>
> And saw that you were not on it, which is why I did not count you for the IPMC vote.
1. Am I supposed to be on it or not ? In other words, who's supposed to be on this list, if not the commiters ?
2. Why am I asked to vote for something if my vote doesn't count ?
Isn't this another reason for using a web tool to conduct the votes, instead of a manual an error prone (and confusing) process?
S.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Feb 1, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Stefane Fermigier wrote:
>
>> BTW, I have no idea WTF is a IPMC, and who is and who is not.
>>
>> S.
>>
>> On Feb 1, 2011, at 10:10 PM, Jeff Potts wrote:
>>
>>> Just an FYI in case you are wondering. The vote to approve the cmislib 0.4 incubating release was sent to the IPMC a week ago and has still only received one binding vote (Nick's). I sent a second reminder to the general incubator group today so hopefully that will cause something to happen.
>>>
>>> Gab said he had a vote that took a week to get approved so I guess this is normal, but it seems painfully slow to me.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>
>> --
>> Stefane Fermigier, Founder and Chairman, Nuxeo
>> Open Source, Java EE based, Enterprise Content Management (ECM)
>> http://www.nuxeo.com/ - +33 1 40 33 79 87 - http://twitter.com/sfermigier
>> Join the Nuxeo Group on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/groups?gid=43314
>> New Nuxeo release: http://nuxeo.com/dm54
>> "There's no such thing as can't. You always have a choice."
>>
>
--
Stefane Fermigier, Founder and Chairman, Nuxeo
Open Source, Java EE based, Enterprise Content Management (ECM)
http://www.nuxeo.com/ - +33 1 40 33 79 87 - http://twitter.com/sfermigier
Join the Nuxeo Group on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/groups?gid=43314
New Nuxeo release: http://nuxeo.com/dm54
"There's no such thing as can't. You always have a choice."
Re: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Posted by Jeff Potts <je...@gmail.com>.
I used this list:
http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#incubator-pmc
And saw that you were not on it, which is why I did not count you for the IPMC vote.
Jeff
On Feb 1, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Stefane Fermigier wrote:
> BTW, I have no idea WTF is a IPMC, and who is and who is not.
>
> S.
>
> On Feb 1, 2011, at 10:10 PM, Jeff Potts wrote:
>
>> Just an FYI in case you are wondering. The vote to approve the cmislib 0.4 incubating release was sent to the IPMC a week ago and has still only received one binding vote (Nick's). I sent a second reminder to the general incubator group today so hopefully that will cause something to happen.
>>
>> Gab said he had a vote that took a week to get approved so I guess this is normal, but it seems painfully slow to me.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> --
> Stefane Fermigier, Founder and Chairman, Nuxeo
> Open Source, Java EE based, Enterprise Content Management (ECM)
> http://www.nuxeo.com/ - +33 1 40 33 79 87 - http://twitter.com/sfermigier
> Join the Nuxeo Group on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/groups?gid=43314
> New Nuxeo release: http://nuxeo.com/dm54
> "There's no such thing as can't. You always have a choice."
>
Re: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Posted by Nick Burch <ni...@alfresco.com>.
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, Stefane Fermigier wrote:
> On Feb 1, 2011, at 10:37 PM, Nick Burch wrote:
>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, Stefane Fermigier wrote:
>>> BTW, I have no idea WTF is a IPMC, and who is and who is not.
>>
>> The IPMC is the Incubator PMC.
>
> OK, then what's a PMC and who's on it ?
I think we need to make sure you get to the Knockree retreat in May, so
you can both attend the Apache Way talk there + get other questions
answered over a beer :)
A PMC is the Project Management Committee, which oversees the project on
behalf of the ASF board. There's some information at:
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html
You might also find these two pages useful:
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html
http://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html
Nick
Re: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Posted by Stefane Fermigier <sf...@nuxeo.com>.
On Feb 1, 2011, at 10:37 PM, Nick Burch wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, Stefane Fermigier wrote:
>> BTW, I have no idea WTF is a IPMC, and who is and who is not.
>
> The IPMC is the Incubator PMC.
OK, then what's a PMC and who's on it ?
S.
> While Chemistry is still in the incubator (it'll hopefully graduate once the cmislib release is done), all votes have to be done twice. Firstly the vote happens within the chemistry community, and needs 3 +1 votes from the PPMC (Chemistry project PMC). Then, or possibly as part of that, the vote needs approving by 3 IPMC members.
>
> For the list of who's on the IPMC, see
> http://incubator.apache.org/whoweare.html
> http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#incubator-pmc
> Generally it's made up of Apache Members who have an interest in mentoring and helping new projects, and a small number of committers from projects who help out too.
>
> The list of the Chemistry PPMC is on:
> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/chemistry.html
> and you'll see you're on that list.
>
> Hope that clears things up a bit? There's more information on the incubator site
>
> Nick
--
Stefane Fermigier, Founder and Chairman, Nuxeo
Open Source, Java EE based, Enterprise Content Management (ECM)
http://www.nuxeo.com/ - +33 1 40 33 79 87 - http://twitter.com/sfermigier
Join the Nuxeo Group on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/groups?gid=43314
New Nuxeo release: http://nuxeo.com/dm54
"There's no such thing as can't. You always have a choice."
Re: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Posted by Nick Burch <ni...@alfresco.com>.
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, Stefane Fermigier wrote:
> BTW, I have no idea WTF is a IPMC, and who is and who is not.
The IPMC is the Incubator PMC. While Chemistry is still in the incubator
(it'll hopefully graduate once the cmislib release is done), all votes
have to be done twice. Firstly the vote happens within the chemistry
community, and needs 3 +1 votes from the PPMC (Chemistry project PMC).
Then, or possibly as part of that, the vote needs approving by 3 IPMC
members.
For the list of who's on the IPMC, see
http://incubator.apache.org/whoweare.html
http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#incubator-pmc
Generally it's made up of Apache Members who have an interest in mentoring
and helping new projects, and a small number of committers from projects
who help out too.
The list of the Chemistry PPMC is on:
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/chemistry.html
and you'll see you're on that list.
Hope that clears things up a bit? There's more information on the
incubator site
Nick
Re: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Posted by Stefane Fermigier <sf...@nuxeo.com>.
BTW, I have no idea WTF is a IPMC, and who is and who is not.
S.
On Feb 1, 2011, at 10:10 PM, Jeff Potts wrote:
> Just an FYI in case you are wondering. The vote to approve the cmislib 0.4 incubating release was sent to the IPMC a week ago and has still only received one binding vote (Nick's). I sent a second reminder to the general incubator group today so hopefully that will cause something to happen.
>
> Gab said he had a vote that took a week to get approved so I guess this is normal, but it seems painfully slow to me.
>
> Jeff
--
Stefane Fermigier, Founder and Chairman, Nuxeo
Open Source, Java EE based, Enterprise Content Management (ECM)
http://www.nuxeo.com/ - +33 1 40 33 79 87 - http://twitter.com/sfermigier
Join the Nuxeo Group on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/groups?gid=43314
New Nuxeo release: http://nuxeo.com/dm54
"There's no such thing as can't. You always have a choice."
Re: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Posted by Nick Burch <ni...@alfresco.com>.
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, Florian Müller wrote:
> There was a -1 vote [1]. I guess you have to start over...
Alas yes. If you want, I can give you a hand tomorrow my afternoon / your
morning to fix these problems. Hopefully this'll then be the last time...
Nick
Re: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Posted by Nick Burch <ni...@alfresco.com>.
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, Stefane Fermigier wrote:
> On Feb 1, 2011, at 10:39 PM, Nick Burch wrote:
>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, Jeff Potts wrote:
>>> Sorry, Stefane, you are correct, I should have counted your vote. I
>>> guess with the -1 from Stefan Seelmann it is moot. I also agree with
>>> you that looking through the archives is not a great way to count
>>> votes.
>>
>> If you were subscribed to general@incubator then you'd see them come
>> in. It might be worth you joining the list while the vote's ongoing
>
> I have no interest in joining yet another mailing list.
Probably only Jeff needs to, as the person calling the vote
> I think these votes should be done using a web app, so that each person
> should be able to see at any time where we stand in terms of +1's, -1's,
> who has voted, etc.
I think we've tended to stick with mailing lists, so that votes can come
with comments and trigger discussions. Normally votes only take place on
the one list, and everyone voting is on that list, so it's not a big
hardship + everyone can see and discuss. Incubator voting where you don't
have enough IPMC members on your dev list are the special case...
Nick
Re: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Posted by Stefane Fermigier <sf...@nuxeo.com>.
On Feb 1, 2011, at 10:39 PM, Nick Burch wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, Jeff Potts wrote:
>> Sorry, Stefane, you are correct, I should have counted your vote. I guess with the -1 from Stefan Seelmann it is moot. I also agree with you that looking through the archives is not a great way to count votes.
>
> If you were subscribed to general@incubator then you'd see them come in. It might be worth you joining the list while the vote's ongoing
I have no interest in joining yet another mailing list.
I think these votes should be done using a web app, so that each person should be able to see at any time where we stand in terms of +1's, -1's, who has voted, etc.
S.
--
Stefane Fermigier, Founder and Chairman, Nuxeo
Open Source, Java EE based, Enterprise Content Management (ECM)
http://www.nuxeo.com/ - +33 1 40 33 79 87 - http://twitter.com/sfermigier
Join the Nuxeo Group on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/groups?gid=43314
New Nuxeo release: http://nuxeo.com/dm54
"There's no such thing as can't. You always have a choice."
Re: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Posted by Nick Burch <ni...@alfresco.com>.
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, Jeff Potts wrote:
> Sorry, Stefane, you are correct, I should have counted your vote. I
> guess with the -1 from Stefan Seelmann it is moot. I also agree with you
> that looking through the archives is not a great way to count votes.
If you were subscribed to general@incubator then you'd see them come in.
It might be worth you joining the list while the vote's ongoing
> Richard, I hope you're taking notes on this whole thing so that when you
> do the PHP client release my suffering will not be in vain. :)
Depending on timings, Chemistry may have graduated by then. However, if
you're a top level project, then you have to make sure you do all the
checks the IPMC currently does yourself...
Nick
Re: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Posted by Jeff Potts <je...@gmail.com>.
Sorry, Stefane, you are correct, I should have counted your vote. I guess with the -1 from Stefan Seelmann it is moot. I also agree with you that looking through the archives is not a great way to count votes.
Richard, I hope you're taking notes on this whole thing so that when you do the PHP client release my suffering will not be in vain. :)
Jeff
On Feb 1, 2011, at 3:26 PM, Stefane Fermigier wrote:
> On Feb 1, 2011, at 10:17 PM, Florian Müller wrote:
>
>> Hi Jeff,
>>
>> There was a -1 vote [1]. I guess you have to start over...
>
> By whom ?
>
> And why didn't my +1 vote count ?
>
> Shouldn't we use something more modern than manual crawling through mail archives to determine who voted for what and what the tally are ?
>
> S.
>
>>
>> - Florian
>>
>>
>> [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201101.mbox/%3CAANLkTinERWvEEdW6e2YQ+hnnFSzNx3xL-qDq91S=VU-r@mail.gmail.com%3E
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff Potts" <je...@gmail.com>
>> To: chemistry-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2011 9:10:46 PM GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal
>> Subject: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
>>
>> Just an FYI in case you are wondering. The vote to approve the cmislib 0.4 incubating release was sent to the IPMC a week ago and has still only received one binding vote (Nick's). I sent a second reminder to the general incubator group today so hopefully that will cause something to happen.
>>
>> Gab said he had a vote that took a week to get approved so I guess this is normal, but it seems painfully slow to me.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> --
> Stefane Fermigier, Founder and Chairman, Nuxeo
> Open Source, Java EE based, Enterprise Content Management (ECM)
> http://www.nuxeo.com/ - +33 1 40 33 79 87 - http://twitter.com/sfermigier
> Join the Nuxeo Group on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/groups?gid=43314
> New Nuxeo release: http://nuxeo.com/dm54
> "There's no such thing as can't. You always have a choice."
>
Re: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Posted by Stefane Fermigier <sf...@nuxeo.com>.
On Feb 1, 2011, at 10:17 PM, Florian Müller wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
>
> There was a -1 vote [1]. I guess you have to start over...
By whom ?
And why didn't my +1 vote count ?
Shouldn't we use something more modern than manual crawling through mail archives to determine who voted for what and what the tally are ?
S.
>
> - Florian
>
>
> [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201101.mbox/%3CAANLkTinERWvEEdW6e2YQ+hnnFSzNx3xL-qDq91S=VU-r@mail.gmail.com%3E
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Potts" <je...@gmail.com>
> To: chemistry-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2011 9:10:46 PM GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal
> Subject: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
>
> Just an FYI in case you are wondering. The vote to approve the cmislib 0.4 incubating release was sent to the IPMC a week ago and has still only received one binding vote (Nick's). I sent a second reminder to the general incubator group today so hopefully that will cause something to happen.
>
> Gab said he had a vote that took a week to get approved so I guess this is normal, but it seems painfully slow to me.
>
> Jeff
--
Stefane Fermigier, Founder and Chairman, Nuxeo
Open Source, Java EE based, Enterprise Content Management (ECM)
http://www.nuxeo.com/ - +33 1 40 33 79 87 - http://twitter.com/sfermigier
Join the Nuxeo Group on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/groups?gid=43314
New Nuxeo release: http://nuxeo.com/dm54
"There's no such thing as can't. You always have a choice."
Re: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Posted by Florian Müller <fl...@alfresco.com>.
Hi Jeff,
There was a -1 vote [1]. I guess you have to start over...
- Florian
[1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201101.mbox/%3CAANLkTinERWvEEdW6e2YQ+hnnFSzNx3xL-qDq91S=VU-r@mail.gmail.com%3E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Potts" <je...@gmail.com>
To: chemistry-dev@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2011 9:10:46 PM GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal
Subject: cmislib 0.4 still waiting on two IPMC votes
Just an FYI in case you are wondering. The vote to approve the cmislib 0.4 incubating release was sent to the IPMC a week ago and has still only received one binding vote (Nick's). I sent a second reminder to the general incubator group today so hopefully that will cause something to happen.
Gab said he had a vote that took a week to get approved so I guess this is normal, but it seems painfully slow to me.
Jeff