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Posted to dev@ignite.apache.org by Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com> on 2016/03/01 08:44:31 UTC
Beta-releases for particular features.
Igniters,
I want to circulate again an idea of "betas" for particular product
features.
For now we have several pretty cool features which are to be released soon:
ODBC driver and LINQ in .NET. Features like this include potentially
infinite amount of use cases and of course we cannot test all of them. I
believe things like this should go through extended release cycle so that
we have time to get user's feedback before officially announcing them. It
could be betas, early previews, whatever.
The main idea is that we have a time window to obtain a feedback and
stabilize the feature.
This is a common practice for more or less big products. E.g. see Hazelcast
python client [1] and Intellij IDEA EAP 16 [2].
Thoughts?
[1] https://pypi.python.org/pypi/hazelcast-python-client
[2] https://confluence.jetbrains.com/display/IDEADEV/IDEA+16+EAP
Vladimir.
Re: Beta-releases for particular features.
Posted by Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 4:34 PM, Alexey Kuznetsov <ak...@gridgain.com>
wrote:
> How about odd/even releases?
> Odd releases will contain new/experimental features.
> Even releases - stable/bug fix releases.
>
I think it will get confusing. Do you know other projects that have the
same practice?
>
> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 1:46 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Yakov Zhdanov <yz...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Roman, this is not about early and frequent releases, but about special
> > > beta releases.
> > >
> > > I agree with Dmitry and Pavel that we do not need such releases, but
> need
> > > to mark somehow that feature is experimental:
> > > - add notice to javadocs and readmeio docs (as Dmitry suggested)
> > > - add warning output to logs on the first use of API
> > >
> >
> > I like the warnings in the log a lot. To Roman’s point, I also think that
> > we should consider more frequent releases, especially when there is a
> > feature that we want to make available to the community, experimental or
> > not.
> >
> >
> > > --Yakov
> > >
> > > 2016-03-03 11:50 GMT+03:00 Roman Shtykh <rs...@yahoo.com.invalid>:
> > >
> > > > I like Vladimir's idea.It is particularly useful when we implement
> > > > integrations with other systems. Releasing them early and, if needed,
> > > > oftenly, may attract more users of those systems and give advantages
> > over
> > > > competitors.
> > > > -Roman
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 2:01 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > > > dsetrakyan@apache.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In my opinion, if a certain feature is experimental, we should
> simply
> > > > mention it in the release notes and/or documentation. I would not
> > create
> > > a
> > > > separate beta release just for a certain feature.
> > > >
> > > > D.
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 6:57 AM, Pavel Tupitsyn <
> ptupitsyn@gridgain.com
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't think that features like LINQ and ODBC need the same
> approach
> > > > > as IDEA EAP. IntelliJ has EAP because new features may have bugs
> > > > > or usability issues. With LINQ and ODBC our main concern are not
> > bugs,
> > > > > but unsupported use cases that we did not think of. Known use cases
> > > > > are covered with tests.
> > > > >
> > > > > Beta releases may not get enough attention to gather feedback.
> > > > > I think we should release these features right away and gradually
> add
> > > > > support
> > > > > for missing use cases, if any emerge. We are not going to change
> API
> > or
> > > > > break compatibility while adding these things in future.
> > > > >
> > > > > Furthermore, LINQ is only a usability feature. Users can always
> > switch
> > > to
> > > > > raw SQL
> > > > > if something can't be expressed in LINQ.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <
> > vozerov@gridgain.com
> > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Igniters,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I want to circulate again an idea of "betas" for particular
> product
> > > > > > features.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For now we have several pretty cool features which are to be
> > released
> > > > > soon:
> > > > > > ODBC driver and LINQ in .NET. Features like this include
> > potentially
> > > > > > infinite amount of use cases and of course we cannot test all of
> > > them.
> > > > I
> > > > > > believe things like this should go through extended release cycle
> > so
> > > > that
> > > > > > we have time to get user's feedback before officially announcing
> > > them.
> > > > It
> > > > > > could be betas, early previews, whatever.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The main idea is that we have a time window to obtain a feedback
> > and
> > > > > > stabilize the feature.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is a common practice for more or less big products. E.g. see
> > > > > Hazelcast
> > > > > > python client [1] and Intellij IDEA EAP 16 [2].
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thoughts?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1] https://pypi.python.org/pypi/hazelcast-python-client
> > > > > > [2] https://confluence.jetbrains.com/display/IDEADEV/IDEA+16+EAP
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vladimir.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Alexey Kuznetsov
> GridGain Systems
> www.gridgain.com
>
Re: Beta-releases for particular features.
Posted by Alexey Kuznetsov <ak...@gridgain.com>.
How about odd/even releases?
Odd releases will contain new/experimental features.
Even releases - stable/bug fix releases.
On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 1:46 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>
wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Yakov Zhdanov <yz...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Roman, this is not about early and frequent releases, but about special
> > beta releases.
> >
> > I agree with Dmitry and Pavel that we do not need such releases, but need
> > to mark somehow that feature is experimental:
> > - add notice to javadocs and readmeio docs (as Dmitry suggested)
> > - add warning output to logs on the first use of API
> >
>
> I like the warnings in the log a lot. To Roman’s point, I also think that
> we should consider more frequent releases, especially when there is a
> feature that we want to make available to the community, experimental or
> not.
>
>
> > --Yakov
> >
> > 2016-03-03 11:50 GMT+03:00 Roman Shtykh <rs...@yahoo.com.invalid>:
> >
> > > I like Vladimir's idea.It is particularly useful when we implement
> > > integrations with other systems. Releasing them early and, if needed,
> > > oftenly, may attract more users of those systems and give advantages
> over
> > > competitors.
> > > -Roman
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 2:01 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > > dsetrakyan@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > In my opinion, if a certain feature is experimental, we should simply
> > > mention it in the release notes and/or documentation. I would not
> create
> > a
> > > separate beta release just for a certain feature.
> > >
> > > D.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 6:57 AM, Pavel Tupitsyn <ptupitsyn@gridgain.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I don't think that features like LINQ and ODBC need the same approach
> > > > as IDEA EAP. IntelliJ has EAP because new features may have bugs
> > > > or usability issues. With LINQ and ODBC our main concern are not
> bugs,
> > > > but unsupported use cases that we did not think of. Known use cases
> > > > are covered with tests.
> > > >
> > > > Beta releases may not get enough attention to gather feedback.
> > > > I think we should release these features right away and gradually add
> > > > support
> > > > for missing use cases, if any emerge. We are not going to change API
> or
> > > > break compatibility while adding these things in future.
> > > >
> > > > Furthermore, LINQ is only a usability feature. Users can always
> switch
> > to
> > > > raw SQL
> > > > if something can't be expressed in LINQ.
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <
> vozerov@gridgain.com
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Igniters,
> > > > >
> > > > > I want to circulate again an idea of "betas" for particular product
> > > > > features.
> > > > >
> > > > > For now we have several pretty cool features which are to be
> released
> > > > soon:
> > > > > ODBC driver and LINQ in .NET. Features like this include
> potentially
> > > > > infinite amount of use cases and of course we cannot test all of
> > them.
> > > I
> > > > > believe things like this should go through extended release cycle
> so
> > > that
> > > > > we have time to get user's feedback before officially announcing
> > them.
> > > It
> > > > > could be betas, early previews, whatever.
> > > > >
> > > > > The main idea is that we have a time window to obtain a feedback
> and
> > > > > stabilize the feature.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is a common practice for more or less big products. E.g. see
> > > > Hazelcast
> > > > > python client [1] and Intellij IDEA EAP 16 [2].
> > > > >
> > > > > Thoughts?
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://pypi.python.org/pypi/hazelcast-python-client
> > > > > [2] https://confluence.jetbrains.com/display/IDEADEV/IDEA+16+EAP
> > > > >
> > > > > Vladimir.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
--
Alexey Kuznetsov
GridGain Systems
www.gridgain.com
Re: Beta-releases for particular features.
Posted by Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Yakov Zhdanov <yz...@apache.org> wrote:
> Roman, this is not about early and frequent releases, but about special
> beta releases.
>
> I agree with Dmitry and Pavel that we do not need such releases, but need
> to mark somehow that feature is experimental:
> - add notice to javadocs and readmeio docs (as Dmitry suggested)
> - add warning output to logs on the first use of API
>
I like the warnings in the log a lot. To Roman’s point, I also think that
we should consider more frequent releases, especially when there is a
feature that we want to make available to the community, experimental or
not.
> --Yakov
>
> 2016-03-03 11:50 GMT+03:00 Roman Shtykh <rs...@yahoo.com.invalid>:
>
> > I like Vladimir's idea.It is particularly useful when we implement
> > integrations with other systems. Releasing them early and, if needed,
> > oftenly, may attract more users of those systems and give advantages over
> > competitors.
> > -Roman
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 2:01 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > dsetrakyan@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > In my opinion, if a certain feature is experimental, we should simply
> > mention it in the release notes and/or documentation. I would not create
> a
> > separate beta release just for a certain feature.
> >
> > D.
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 6:57 AM, Pavel Tupitsyn <pt...@gridgain.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I don't think that features like LINQ and ODBC need the same approach
> > > as IDEA EAP. IntelliJ has EAP because new features may have bugs
> > > or usability issues. With LINQ and ODBC our main concern are not bugs,
> > > but unsupported use cases that we did not think of. Known use cases
> > > are covered with tests.
> > >
> > > Beta releases may not get enough attention to gather feedback.
> > > I think we should release these features right away and gradually add
> > > support
> > > for missing use cases, if any emerge. We are not going to change API or
> > > break compatibility while adding these things in future.
> > >
> > > Furthermore, LINQ is only a usability feature. Users can always switch
> to
> > > raw SQL
> > > if something can't be expressed in LINQ.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <vozerov@gridgain.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Igniters,
> > > >
> > > > I want to circulate again an idea of "betas" for particular product
> > > > features.
> > > >
> > > > For now we have several pretty cool features which are to be released
> > > soon:
> > > > ODBC driver and LINQ in .NET. Features like this include potentially
> > > > infinite amount of use cases and of course we cannot test all of
> them.
> > I
> > > > believe things like this should go through extended release cycle so
> > that
> > > > we have time to get user's feedback before officially announcing
> them.
> > It
> > > > could be betas, early previews, whatever.
> > > >
> > > > The main idea is that we have a time window to obtain a feedback and
> > > > stabilize the feature.
> > > >
> > > > This is a common practice for more or less big products. E.g. see
> > > Hazelcast
> > > > python client [1] and Intellij IDEA EAP 16 [2].
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts?
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://pypi.python.org/pypi/hazelcast-python-client
> > > > [2] https://confluence.jetbrains.com/display/IDEADEV/IDEA+16+EAP
> > > >
> > > > Vladimir.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: Beta-releases for particular features.
Posted by Yakov Zhdanov <yz...@apache.org>.
Roman, this is not about early and frequent releases, but about special
beta releases.
I agree with Dmitry and Pavel that we do not need such releases, but need
to mark somehow that feature is experimental:
- add notice to javadocs and readmeio docs (as Dmitry suggested)
- add warning output to logs on the first use of API
--Yakov
2016-03-03 11:50 GMT+03:00 Roman Shtykh <rs...@yahoo.com.invalid>:
> I like Vladimir's idea.It is particularly useful when we implement
> integrations with other systems. Releasing them early and, if needed,
> oftenly, may attract more users of those systems and give advantages over
> competitors.
> -Roman
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 2:01 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> dsetrakyan@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
> In my opinion, if a certain feature is experimental, we should simply
> mention it in the release notes and/or documentation. I would not create a
> separate beta release just for a certain feature.
>
> D.
>
> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 6:57 AM, Pavel Tupitsyn <pt...@gridgain.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I don't think that features like LINQ and ODBC need the same approach
> > as IDEA EAP. IntelliJ has EAP because new features may have bugs
> > or usability issues. With LINQ and ODBC our main concern are not bugs,
> > but unsupported use cases that we did not think of. Known use cases
> > are covered with tests.
> >
> > Beta releases may not get enough attention to gather feedback.
> > I think we should release these features right away and gradually add
> > support
> > for missing use cases, if any emerge. We are not going to change API or
> > break compatibility while adding these things in future.
> >
> > Furthermore, LINQ is only a usability feature. Users can always switch to
> > raw SQL
> > if something can't be expressed in LINQ.
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Igniters,
> > >
> > > I want to circulate again an idea of "betas" for particular product
> > > features.
> > >
> > > For now we have several pretty cool features which are to be released
> > soon:
> > > ODBC driver and LINQ in .NET. Features like this include potentially
> > > infinite amount of use cases and of course we cannot test all of them.
> I
> > > believe things like this should go through extended release cycle so
> that
> > > we have time to get user's feedback before officially announcing them.
> It
> > > could be betas, early previews, whatever.
> > >
> > > The main idea is that we have a time window to obtain a feedback and
> > > stabilize the feature.
> > >
> > > This is a common practice for more or less big products. E.g. see
> > Hazelcast
> > > python client [1] and Intellij IDEA EAP 16 [2].
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > > [1] https://pypi.python.org/pypi/hazelcast-python-client
> > > [2] https://confluence.jetbrains.com/display/IDEADEV/IDEA+16+EAP
> > >
> > > Vladimir.
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
Re: Beta-releases for particular features.
Posted by Roman Shtykh <rs...@yahoo.com.INVALID>.
I like Vladimir's idea.It is particularly useful when we implement integrations with other systems. Releasing them early and, if needed, oftenly, may attract more users of those systems and give advantages over competitors.
-Roman
On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 2:01 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org> wrote:
In my opinion, if a certain feature is experimental, we should simply
mention it in the release notes and/or documentation. I would not create a
separate beta release just for a certain feature.
D.
On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 6:57 AM, Pavel Tupitsyn <pt...@gridgain.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I don't think that features like LINQ and ODBC need the same approach
> as IDEA EAP. IntelliJ has EAP because new features may have bugs
> or usability issues. With LINQ and ODBC our main concern are not bugs,
> but unsupported use cases that we did not think of. Known use cases
> are covered with tests.
>
> Beta releases may not get enough attention to gather feedback.
> I think we should release these features right away and gradually add
> support
> for missing use cases, if any emerge. We are not going to change API or
> break compatibility while adding these things in future.
>
> Furthermore, LINQ is only a usability feature. Users can always switch to
> raw SQL
> if something can't be expressed in LINQ.
>
> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Igniters,
> >
> > I want to circulate again an idea of "betas" for particular product
> > features.
> >
> > For now we have several pretty cool features which are to be released
> soon:
> > ODBC driver and LINQ in .NET. Features like this include potentially
> > infinite amount of use cases and of course we cannot test all of them. I
> > believe things like this should go through extended release cycle so that
> > we have time to get user's feedback before officially announcing them. It
> > could be betas, early previews, whatever.
> >
> > The main idea is that we have a time window to obtain a feedback and
> > stabilize the feature.
> >
> > This is a common practice for more or less big products. E.g. see
> Hazelcast
> > python client [1] and Intellij IDEA EAP 16 [2].
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > [1] https://pypi.python.org/pypi/hazelcast-python-client
> > [2] https://confluence.jetbrains.com/display/IDEADEV/IDEA+16+EAP
> >
> > Vladimir.
> >
>
Re: Beta-releases for particular features.
Posted by Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>.
In my opinion, if a certain feature is experimental, we should simply
mention it in the release notes and/or documentation. I would not create a
separate beta release just for a certain feature.
D.
On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 6:57 AM, Pavel Tupitsyn <pt...@gridgain.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I don't think that features like LINQ and ODBC need the same approach
> as IDEA EAP. IntelliJ has EAP because new features may have bugs
> or usability issues. With LINQ and ODBC our main concern are not bugs,
> but unsupported use cases that we did not think of. Known use cases
> are covered with tests.
>
> Beta releases may not get enough attention to gather feedback.
> I think we should release these features right away and gradually add
> support
> for missing use cases, if any emerge. We are not going to change API or
> break compatibility while adding these things in future.
>
> Furthermore, LINQ is only a usability feature. Users can always switch to
> raw SQL
> if something can't be expressed in LINQ.
>
> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Igniters,
> >
> > I want to circulate again an idea of "betas" for particular product
> > features.
> >
> > For now we have several pretty cool features which are to be released
> soon:
> > ODBC driver and LINQ in .NET. Features like this include potentially
> > infinite amount of use cases and of course we cannot test all of them. I
> > believe things like this should go through extended release cycle so that
> > we have time to get user's feedback before officially announcing them. It
> > could be betas, early previews, whatever.
> >
> > The main idea is that we have a time window to obtain a feedback and
> > stabilize the feature.
> >
> > This is a common practice for more or less big products. E.g. see
> Hazelcast
> > python client [1] and Intellij IDEA EAP 16 [2].
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > [1] https://pypi.python.org/pypi/hazelcast-python-client
> > [2] https://confluence.jetbrains.com/display/IDEADEV/IDEA+16+EAP
> >
> > Vladimir.
> >
>
Re: Beta-releases for particular features.
Posted by Pavel Tupitsyn <pt...@gridgain.com>.
Hi,
I don't think that features like LINQ and ODBC need the same approach
as IDEA EAP. IntelliJ has EAP because new features may have bugs
or usability issues. With LINQ and ODBC our main concern are not bugs,
but unsupported use cases that we did not think of. Known use cases
are covered with tests.
Beta releases may not get enough attention to gather feedback.
I think we should release these features right away and gradually add
support
for missing use cases, if any emerge. We are not going to change API or
break compatibility while adding these things in future.
Furthermore, LINQ is only a usability feature. Users can always switch to
raw SQL
if something can't be expressed in LINQ.
On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>
wrote:
> Igniters,
>
> I want to circulate again an idea of "betas" for particular product
> features.
>
> For now we have several pretty cool features which are to be released soon:
> ODBC driver and LINQ in .NET. Features like this include potentially
> infinite amount of use cases and of course we cannot test all of them. I
> believe things like this should go through extended release cycle so that
> we have time to get user's feedback before officially announcing them. It
> could be betas, early previews, whatever.
>
> The main idea is that we have a time window to obtain a feedback and
> stabilize the feature.
>
> This is a common practice for more or less big products. E.g. see Hazelcast
> python client [1] and Intellij IDEA EAP 16 [2].
>
> Thoughts?
>
> [1] https://pypi.python.org/pypi/hazelcast-python-client
> [2] https://confluence.jetbrains.com/display/IDEADEV/IDEA+16+EAP
>
> Vladimir.
>