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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com> on 2002/06/13 17:15:29 UTC
Jelly
Hi folks,
I just came across Jelly at http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/jelly/
A quick look at it gives me the impression it could be a killer to
develop custom transfomers. Anyone using it ?
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez
Anyware Technologies Apache Cocoon
http://www.anyware-tech.com mailto:sylvain@apache.org
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Re: Jelly
Posted by Ivelin Ivanov <iv...@apache.org>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I just came across Jelly at
> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/jelly/
>
> A quick look at it gives me the impression it could be a killer to
> develop custom transfomers. Anyone using it ?
>
> Sylvain
>
It is very cool tool indeed.
HOWEVER:
Being so flexible and powerful is dangerous.
I want to second Daniel Fagerström's concerns with continuations,
and extend them with another perspective.
I think that lately people are getting into the xml scripting hype and
are forgoting the core values of Java as a programming language.
Strongly typed, object oriented, simple and readable.
There are excelent development tools and libraries for Java which are
well thought out, proven to work and solid.
Main problems I've had with JSPs, JSTL and other scripting solutions:
1) Hard to enforce good practices.
2) Over time these scripts become awfully complex and hard to maintain.
3) Debugging. JSPs are a BIG pain to debug. JSPException doesn't even
have neted exception.
4) Typing. Loosely typed languages were invented many years ago, but
they have not become practical. Mainly because their programs can become
hard to read, debug and maintain as they grow in size.
5) Performance
6) Competing with World standards. For the same reasons that I don't
like C# as an initiative, I don't like Sun's JSP extensions (JSTL)
initiatives.
XSLT, XPath and the like are endorced by the W3C. Why not promote them
in the Java world and admit that JSPs are a failure?
My view is that Cocoon should have a base library of well designed and
powerfull transformers, possibly implementing W3C (or other) standards.
The appropriate way to promote Cocoon is to teach people how to use
these transformers to achieve what they need and avoid writing their own
when possible. This is how good practices can emerge and common
libraries and solutions will become available faster.
--
-= Ivelin =-
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Re: Jelly
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>
>>> From: Sylvain Wallez [mailto:sylvain.wallez@anyware-tech.com]
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> I just came across Jelly at
>>> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/jelly/
>>>
>>> A quick look at it gives me the impression it could be a killer to
>>> develop custom transfomers. Anyone using it ?
>>>
>>
>>
>> How it is related/compared with JSP-like tag library recently commited
>> into scratchpad?
>>
>
> Forgot that one :-/
>
> The concepts look similar, TagTransfomer is Cocoon and Avalon-based,
> which is good, but Jelly seems to provide much more features.
>
> Volker, as the author of Cocoon tags, would you like to check Jelly and
> give us your impressions ?
The author of Jelly contacted me about Jelly in Cocoon.
He is eager to make a Transformer for Cocoon, and he already put it in
his todos.
Jelly is basically a generic scripting system based on tags:
it currently uses Ant, JSP tags, and his own (+ others) OOTB.
I also showed him Berin's proposal for caching tag results, and he said
he is interested in adding caching to Jelly.
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Re: Jelly
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com>.
Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>>From: Sylvain Wallez [mailto:sylvain.wallez@anyware-tech.com]
>>
>>Hi folks,
>>
>>I just came across Jelly at http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/jelly/
>>
>>
>>A quick look at it gives me the impression it could be a killer to
>>develop custom transfomers. Anyone using it ?
>>
>>
>
>How it is related/compared with JSP-like tag library recently commited
>into scratchpad?
>
Forgot that one :-/
The concepts look similar, TagTransfomer is Cocoon and Avalon-based,
which is good, but Jelly seems to provide much more features.
Volker, as the author of Cocoon tags, would you like to check Jelly and
give us your impressions ?
Thanks,
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez
Anyware Technologies Apache Cocoon
http://www.anyware-tech.com mailto:sylvain@apache.org
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RE: Jelly
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
> From: Sylvain Wallez [mailto:sylvain.wallez@anyware-tech.com]
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I just came across Jelly at
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/jelly/
>
> A quick look at it gives me the impression it could be a killer to
> develop custom transfomers. Anyone using it ?
How it is related/compared with JSP-like tag library recently commited
into scratchpad?
Vadim
> Sylvain
>
> --
> Sylvain Wallez
> Anyware Technologies Apache Cocoon
> http://www.anyware-tech.com mailto:sylvain@apache.org
>
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