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Posted to users@cocoon.apache.org by Hochsteger Andreas /INFO-MA <An...@oeamtc.at> on 2002/05/06 16:43:29 UTC
AW: Cocoon sunSpot vs. Jetspeed / User Management and Authenticat
ion
Hi!
Thank you for your fast response!
Nice to hear, that sunRaise is already mature enough to be used in
production environments.
My question regarding portlets wasn't only related to jetspeed.
There exists Java JSR 168 Portlet Specification
(http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/168.jsp) which deals with that.
The aim is to provide a way to exchange portlets (parts of a portal) between
different portals.
AFAIK jetspeed supports this standard as well as many new CMS do.
IBM and Sun are promoting this as the building blocks for Portals and that's
why I'm so interested in it.
You suggested to use connectors for new authentication mechanisms.
Is something similar possible for portlets too?
I mean, can I develop normal portlets as the standard suggests it (with the
Portlet API) and use them from within a sunlet?
Or should it be the other way round?
Bye,
Andreas Hochsteger
ÖAMTC Web- & Infomanagement
E-Mail: mailto:andreas.hochsteger@oeamtc.at
Telefon: ++43 1 711 99 - 1353
Internet: http://www.oeamtc.at
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Carsten Ziegeler [mailto:cziegeler@s-und-n.de]
> Gesendet: Montag, 06. Mai 2002 11:02
> An: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> Betreff: RE: Cocoon sunSpot vs. Jetspeed / User Management and
> Authentication
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Hochsteger Andreas /INFO-MA
> [mailto:Andreas.Hochsteger@oeamtc.at]
> > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 10:44 AM
> > To: 'cocoon-users@xml.apache.org'
> > Subject: Cocoon sunSpot vs. Jetspeed / User Management and
> > Authentication
> >
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > I just read parts of the sunSpot documentation and got a
> dejavu feeling,
> > while reading about sunlets and things like that. It seems that
> > Jetspeed has
> > a similar functionality (as far as I understand it) but
> Jetspeed is never
> > mentioned in the docs.
>
> Jetspeed and Cocoon are two different projects with the same
> aim: a portal.
> >
> > Here are my questions:
> > * Is sunSpot something similar to Jetspeed? If so, why
> doesn't it use the
> > already existing Jetspeed?
> The main difference between Jetspeed and sunspot is that
> sunspot is build
> on top of cocoon, that means you can use all features of
> cocoon like the
> xml processing pipelines, stylesheets for layout etc to build
> your portal.
> Jetspeed is a separate technology, so if you want to use
> cocoon *and* if
> you want a portal, jetspeed is (afaik) not an alternative.
>
> > * What's the difference / similarity between sunlets and
> portlets? Can
> > portlets be part of a sunlet?
> A sunlet is simply a URI which produces XML, this can either
> be a Cocoon
> XML pipeline, or an http request or any other URI. I don't know the
> jetspeed portlets, but if they are accessible via a URI, yes
> you can use
> them as a sunlet.
>
> > * How stable/usable is sunRise and its components for
> production use? When
> > can we expect a first stable release (I don't need an exact date,
> > just tell
> > me in some weeks or in some years ;-)?
> sunrise and sunspot are stable. Both are a donnation of our company
> (S&N AG, Germany) and are just for more than one year in
> various production
> environments. An official cocoon release containing those two parts is
> expected in summer this year.
>
> > * Are there any attempts to support User Management and
> Authentication
> > Standards like XACML
> (http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/xacml/), RBAC
> > (http://csrc.nist.gov/rbac/), SAML
> > (http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/security/), ...?
> >
> Sorry, I don't know those, but the sunrise authentication mechanism is
> very flexible. sunrise itself is only a framework where you
> can plug-in
> your authentication scheme, so I generally would say, if
> these standards
> are usuable within a java servlet you can simply use it in sunrise
> by writing a simple connector (and believe me this should be a really
> simple connector and not a hugh project by itself).
>
> > We are currently evaluating new technology for our web
> > architecture and thus
> > evaluating User Management and Authentication solutions too which
> > integrate
> > very well within Websites and Web-Applications and allow
> customization,
> > Single-sign-on and Profiling of User- and Application data,
> > possible backed
> > by a LDAP authentication.
> > Is Cocoon sunRise the way to go or am I looking at the wrong place?
> >
> This is not an easy question for *me*;)
> In fact, the answer is simple: if you want
> to use Cocoon for building your web application, sunRise is afaik the
> only way to go - and it's a good choice, too :)
> If you don't want to use Cocoon, well, you can use sunRise.
>
> With sunRise you can do single-sign-on, Profiling of User- and
> Application data, LDAP authentication and many more. We already have
> done this in some projects...
>
> Just let me know if I can provide you more information.
>
>
> Carsten
>
> Open Source Group sunShine - b:Integrated
> ================================================================
> Carsten Ziegeler, S&N AG, Klingenderstrasse 5, D-33100 Paderborn
> http://www.s-und-n.de mailto: cziegeler@s-und-n.de
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> The Cocoon Book:
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735712352/apachecocoona-20
> The new weblog homepage: http://ziegeler.bei.t-online.de
> ================================================================
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faqs.html>
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
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RE: Cocoon sunSpot vs. Jetspeed / User Management and Authentication
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hochsteger Andreas /INFO-MA [mailto:Andreas.Hochsteger@oeamtc.at]
> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:43 PM
> To: 'cocoon-users@xml.apache.org'
> Subject: AW: Cocoon sunSpot vs. Jetspeed / User Management and
> Authentication
>
>
> Hi!
>
> Thank you for your fast response!
> Nice to hear, that sunRaise is already mature enough to be used in
> production environments.
>
> My question regarding portlets wasn't only related to jetspeed.
> There exists Java JSR 168 Portlet Specification
> (http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/168.jsp) which deals with that.
> The aim is to provide a way to exchange portlets (parts of a
> portal) between
> different portals.
Yes, the aim of the cocoon portal framework is to support this JSR
somehow (see below)
> AFAIK jetspeed supports this standard as well as many new CMS do.
AFAIK this is not true, IBM originally started the jsr 162 which
is based on jetspeed, then Sun initialized the jsr 167 as a counterpart
to the IBM initiative.
Fortunately, these two approaches are now combining forces in
the JSR 168.
> IBM and Sun are promoting this as the building blocks for Portals
> and that's
> why I'm so interested in it.
>
Yes, blocks and "pluggable deployment" are the key words. Cocoon itselt
will become pluggable with its own block concept and either this
or the portlet api or both will also be used someday for building
portlets.
> You suggested to use connectors for new authentication mechanisms.
> Is something similar possible for portlets too?
Currently a sunlet is a URI, so you can call anything you want for
a sunlet, like for example another servlet, JSP, a distant server
an internal Cocoon pipeline which calls in turn another servlet
etc. So, the answer is: yes, you can write connectors here, too.
> I mean, can I develop normal portlets as the standard suggests it
> (with the
> Portlet API) and use them from within a sunlet?
> Or should it be the other way round?
The standard is not yet available and the final draft is expected
in October this year, so until then we can't make any definite answer.
It seems that the JSR is based on the servlet api, so as Cocoon is
(can be used as) a servlet, this should be no problem.
The always working way should be to write a sunlet which calls
a portlet - that should be easy and straightforward.
But perhaps the cocoon portal will directly support the portlet
api - I personally don't like the connection to the servlet api
and I fear that porlets will deal will io streams instead of
sax streams - but we will see. Hopefully I'm wrong :)
Carsten
Carsten Ziegeler http://ziegeler.bei.t-online.de
==================================================================
Apache Cocoon - Consulting, Training, Projects
Open Source Group - S&N AG Germany - http://www.s-und-n.de
------------------------------------------------------------------
The Cocoon Book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735712352/apachecocoona-20
==================================================================
>
> Bye,
>
> Andreas Hochsteger
> ÖAMTC Web- & Infomanagement
> E-Mail: mailto:andreas.hochsteger@oeamtc.at
> Telefon: ++43 1 711 99 - 1353
> Internet: http://www.oeamtc.at
>
>
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Carsten Ziegeler [mailto:cziegeler@s-und-n.de]
> > Gesendet: Montag, 06. Mai 2002 11:02
> > An: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> > Betreff: RE: Cocoon sunSpot vs. Jetspeed / User Management and
> > Authentication
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Hochsteger Andreas /INFO-MA
> > [mailto:Andreas.Hochsteger@oeamtc.at]
> > > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 10:44 AM
> > > To: 'cocoon-users@xml.apache.org'
> > > Subject: Cocoon sunSpot vs. Jetspeed / User Management and
> > > Authentication
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > I just read parts of the sunSpot documentation and got a
> > dejavu feeling,
> > > while reading about sunlets and things like that. It seems that
> > > Jetspeed has
> > > a similar functionality (as far as I understand it) but
> > Jetspeed is never
> > > mentioned in the docs.
> >
> > Jetspeed and Cocoon are two different projects with the same
> > aim: a portal.
> > >
> > > Here are my questions:
> > > * Is sunSpot something similar to Jetspeed? If so, why
> > doesn't it use the
> > > already existing Jetspeed?
> > The main difference between Jetspeed and sunspot is that
> > sunspot is build
> > on top of cocoon, that means you can use all features of
> > cocoon like the
> > xml processing pipelines, stylesheets for layout etc to build
> > your portal.
> > Jetspeed is a separate technology, so if you want to use
> > cocoon *and* if
> > you want a portal, jetspeed is (afaik) not an alternative.
> >
> > > * What's the difference / similarity between sunlets and
> > portlets? Can
> > > portlets be part of a sunlet?
> > A sunlet is simply a URI which produces XML, this can either
> > be a Cocoon
> > XML pipeline, or an http request or any other URI. I don't know the
> > jetspeed portlets, but if they are accessible via a URI, yes
> > you can use
> > them as a sunlet.
> >
> > > * How stable/usable is sunRise and its components for
> > production use? When
> > > can we expect a first stable release (I don't need an exact date,
> > > just tell
> > > me in some weeks or in some years ;-)?
> > sunrise and sunspot are stable. Both are a donnation of our company
> > (S&N AG, Germany) and are just for more than one year in
> > various production
> > environments. An official cocoon release containing those two parts is
> > expected in summer this year.
> >
> > > * Are there any attempts to support User Management and
> > Authentication
> > > Standards like XACML
> > (http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/xacml/), RBAC
> > > (http://csrc.nist.gov/rbac/), SAML
> > > (http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/security/), ...?
> > >
> > Sorry, I don't know those, but the sunrise authentication mechanism is
> > very flexible. sunrise itself is only a framework where you
> > can plug-in
> > your authentication scheme, so I generally would say, if
> > these standards
> > are usuable within a java servlet you can simply use it in sunrise
> > by writing a simple connector (and believe me this should be a really
> > simple connector and not a hugh project by itself).
> >
> > > We are currently evaluating new technology for our web
> > > architecture and thus
> > > evaluating User Management and Authentication solutions too which
> > > integrate
> > > very well within Websites and Web-Applications and allow
> > customization,
> > > Single-sign-on and Profiling of User- and Application data,
> > > possible backed
> > > by a LDAP authentication.
> > > Is Cocoon sunRise the way to go or am I looking at the wrong place?
> > >
> > This is not an easy question for *me*;)
> > In fact, the answer is simple: if you want
> > to use Cocoon for building your web application, sunRise is afaik the
> > only way to go - and it's a good choice, too :)
> > If you don't want to use Cocoon, well, you can use sunRise.
> >
> > With sunRise you can do single-sign-on, Profiling of User- and
> > Application data, LDAP authentication and many more. We already have
> > done this in some projects...
> >
> > Just let me know if I can provide you more information.
> >
> >
> > Carsten
> >
> > Open Source Group sunShine - b:Integrated
> > ================================================================
> > Carsten Ziegeler, S&N AG, Klingenderstrasse 5, D-33100 Paderborn
> > http://www.s-und-n.de mailto: cziegeler@s-und-n.de
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > The Cocoon Book:
> > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735712352/apachecocoona-20
> > The new weblog homepage: http://ziegeler.bei.t-online.de
> > ================================================================
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faqs.html>
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faqs.html>
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faqs.html>
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>