VCL developer call Thurs (2/5) from 1-3 PM

[Brian Bouterse <bm...@ncsu.edu>]

I'd like to have a VCL developers call, where the following agenda can  
be discussed with the community.  If you'd like to join the  
discussion, it will be from 1-3pm EST on Thurs Feb 5th.  To join, dial  
in to 919.515.7151.

I apologize for the late notice; my invite a few days ago never made  
it onto the list.  If you're reading this, my e-mail subscription  
problem has been resolved.

Tentative Agenda (this gets us started, please add):

1)  Update of the ESX provisioning module
2)  Update of the OS modularization effort
3)  Possibility of using NX as a connection protocol
4)  <insert your agenda item here>

Best,
Brian

Brian Bouterse
Secure Open Systems Initiative
919.698.8796

Re: VCL developer call Thurs (2/5) from 1-3 PM

["Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>]

On Feb 4, 2009, at 6:15 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

> First off, conference calls are not taboo.

I should mention that this is not a universally held opinion in the  
ASF and the Incubator PMC in particular.  As for me I think that phone  
calls to resolve technical issues is fine so long as they are  
published.  As Matt mentions below, you should try to give ample  
notice about the meeting.

Finally, after the meeting be prepared to rehash any technical  
discussion or have any decision upturned by the community at large.   
More specifically there is nothing final about phone meetings; they  
are there to expedite dialog, nothing more.

> I'd go ahead with the call and see who can make it.  Heck, your  
> phone number is now Googleable which is kind of nice :)  Take lots  
> of notes and make sure to post the results back to the list so  
> people can read what happened and comment.  The fact that you posted  
> the time and the meeting and what you wanted to discuss on the list  
> is excellent.  I'd be concerned if I saw an e-mail that said  
> something like, "We met over at NC State yesterday and decided  
> that ..." That would definitely not be good; decisions are made via  
> e-mail with community input.  Apache Geronimo had a spot of  
> confusion a couple of years ago when a number of committers met at  
> Java One and the meeting location and time we're not well  
> communicated.

Oy.  Trust me, you don't want to repeat that.

/me messages his sore rear...


Regards,
Alan

Re: VCL developer call Thurs (2/5) from 1-3 PM

[Aaron Peeler <aa...@ncsu.edu>]

All,

The notes from the conf call are posted on the wiki.

<http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/VCL/VCL+conf+call+2-5-2009>

Please note - these minutes are not approved and likely need corrections.

For the members in attendance - review the notes and make any corrections 
as needed.

Thanks,
Aaron

Aaron Peeler
OIT Advanced Computing
College of Engineering-NCSU
919.513.4571
http://vcl.ncsu.edu

Re: VCL developer call Thurs (2/5) from 1-3 PM

[Aaron Peeler <aa...@ncsu.edu>]

Kevan, Matt,

Thanks for the feedback. Your comments do highlight the potential problems 
if such a call is not handled properly.

I think we'll try it this time to see what happens it may or may not work 
out, but we'll see.

I'll step up and volunteer to record this call and then post it back to the 
dev list.

Another thing that creates a problem is the non toll-free number, this may 
not work for most folks. Are there any open conference tools that folks can 
suggest maybe skype, I think it has a conference call feature - but I'm not 
sure how many can participate.

Aaron


--On February 4, 2009 9:15:07 PM -0500 Matt Hogstrom <ma...@hogstrom.org> 
wrote:

> I saw Kevan's note (he pinged me and let me know what a great mentor I am
> :-P)
>
> First off, conference calls are not taboo.  Some people work better via
> phone than they do with e-mail.  And, often times it is faster to vet
> ideas via the phone.  That said, it may not work for all people so this
> is a community decision and, as Kevan points out, can be problematic for
> folks.  Consider a world wide community with people in multiple
> timezones.  Ironically, I just finished a work related conference call
> with some colleagues in China; I scheduled it in the PM our time so it
> would be early morning their time.
>
> I'd go ahead with the call and see who can make it.  Heck, your phone
> number is now Googleable which is kind of nice :)  Take lots of notes and
> make sure to post the results back to the list so people can read what
> happened and comment.  The fact that you posted the time and the meeting
> and what you wanted to discuss on the list is excellent.  I'd be
> concerned if I saw an e-mail that said something like, "We met over at NC
> State yesterday and decided that ..." That would definitely not be good;
> decisions are made via e-mail with community input.  Apache Geronimo had
> a spot of confusion a couple of years ago when a number of committers met
> at Java One and the meeting location and time we're not well communicated.
>
> One thing that is a good indicator of communication is the number of
> commits relative to the number of e-mails on vcl-dev@.  No hard and fast
> thing here but in general the amount of communication on the list is
> relative to the number of e-mails.  I've seen some results of people
> doing a little analysis on that.
>
> Other thoughts from devs are welcome.
>
> Matt
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2009, at 4:55 PM, Brian Bouterse wrote:
>
>> I'd like to have a VCL developers call, where the following agenda
>> can be discussed with the community.  If you'd like to join the
>> discussion, it will be from 1-3pm EST on Thurs Feb 5th.  To join,
>> dial in to 919.515.7151.
>>
>> I apologize for the late notice; my invite a few days ago never made
>> it onto the list.  If you're reading this, my e-mail subscription
>> problem has been resolved.
>>
>> Tentative Agenda (this gets us started, please add):
>>
>> 1)  Update of the ESX provisioning module
>> 2)  Update of the OS modularization effort
>> 3)  Possibility of using NX as a connection protocol
>> 4)  <insert your agenda item here>
>



Aaron Peeler
OIT Advanced Computing
College of Engineering-NCSU
919.513.4571
http://vcl.ncsu.edu

Re: VCL developer call Thurs (2/5) from 1-3 PM

[Matt Hogstrom <ma...@hogstrom.org>]

I saw Kevan's note (he pinged me and let me know what a great mentor I  
am :-P)

First off, conference calls are not taboo.  Some people work better  
via phone than they do with e-mail.  And, often times it is faster to  
vet ideas via the phone.  That said, it may not work for all people so  
this is a community decision and, as Kevan points out, can be  
problematic for folks.  Consider a world wide community with people in  
multiple timezones.  Ironically, I just finished a work related  
conference call with some colleagues in China; I scheduled it in the  
PM our time so it would be early morning their time.

I'd go ahead with the call and see who can make it.  Heck, your phone  
number is now Googleable which is kind of nice :)  Take lots of notes  
and make sure to post the results back to the list so people can read  
what happened and comment.  The fact that you posted the time and the  
meeting and what you wanted to discuss on the list is excellent.  I'd  
be concerned if I saw an e-mail that said something like, "We met over  
at NC State yesterday and decided that ..." That would definitely not  
be good; decisions are made via e-mail with community input.  Apache  
Geronimo had a spot of confusion a couple of years ago when a number  
of committers met at Java One and the meeting location and time we're  
not well communicated.

One thing that is a good indicator of communication is the number of  
commits relative to the number of e-mails on vcl-dev@.  No hard and  
fast thing here but in general the amount of communication on the list  
is relative to the number of e-mails.  I've seen some results of  
people doing a little analysis on that.

Other thoughts from devs are welcome.

Matt


On Feb 3, 2009, at 4:55 PM, Brian Bouterse wrote:

> I'd like to have a VCL developers call, where the following agenda  
> can be discussed with the community.  If you'd like to join the  
> discussion, it will be from 1-3pm EST on Thurs Feb 5th.  To join,  
> dial in to 919.515.7151.
>
> I apologize for the late notice; my invite a few days ago never made  
> it onto the list.  If you're reading this, my e-mail subscription  
> problem has been resolved.
>
> Tentative Agenda (this gets us started, please add):
>
> 1)  Update of the ESX provisioning module
> 2)  Update of the OS modularization effort
> 3)  Possibility of using NX as a connection protocol
> 4)  <insert your agenda item here>

Re: VCL developer call Thurs (2/5) from 1-3 PM

[Kevan Miller <ke...@gmail.com>]

On Feb 3, 2009, at 4:55 PM, Brian Bouterse wrote:

> I'd like to have a VCL developers call, where the following agenda  
> can be discussed with the community.  If you'd like to join the  
> discussion, it will be from 1-3pm EST on Thurs Feb 5th.  To join,  
> dial in to 919.515.7151.
>
> I apologize for the late notice; my invite a few days ago never made  
> it onto the list.  If you're reading this, my e-mail subscription  
> problem has been resolved.
>
> Tentative Agenda (this gets us started, please add):
>
> 1)  Update of the ESX provisioning module
> 2)  Update of the OS modularization effort
> 3)  Possibility of using NX as a connection protocol
> 4)  <insert your agenda item here>

Hi Brian,
Sorry I didn't read this sooner.

I think this is pretty short notice to be calling a project conference  
call and I'm pretty uncomfortable with the idea, in general. Community  
conference calls are pretty rare at Apache. I believe that there are  
projects that do have them. I've never been personally involved in  
one. Phone calls can be exclusionary -- for instance, I'm unavailable  
from 1-3 tomorrow...

The number one sign of community health for any project at Apache is  
communication on mailing lists. To date, I have not seen a lot of  
communication occurring on the VCL dev list. There has been some  
communication -- I haven't been overly worred. However, perhaps I  
should be.

A few notes... You mention OS modularization and NX connection  
protocols as topics of conversation. However, I can't find any mention  
of these topics on the dev mailing list.

Personally, I don't think you want to be holding project conference  
calls. Certainly not this early in your incubation. Before you hold  
any project phone calls, I'd want to see:

1) A discussion about holding conference calls. Is the *community* in  
favor of holding them?
2) Why are conference calls needed? What's wrong with dev list  
communication?
3) How will you be equitable in scheduling conference calls. Rotating  
schedule? etc
4) Will the phone calls be recorded? Who is going to take notes and  
distribute the topics of conversations to the dev list?

--kevan