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Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> on 2012/10/16 01:25:49 UTC

Re: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Finally got time to read a little about this.  Since there is currently no
official usage of the license tag, I think I would rather try to prompt the
user like we do now in the Ant build.  It looks like this might be
achievable via maven-antrun-plugin.

I looked at the POMs in the link you sent.  That seems pretty
straightforward although Adobe might want a different groupId.  But then
we'd need to add the use of maven-antrun-plugin to these POMs in order to
prompt for the Adobe license right?


On 9/29/12 4:47 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:

> Ups ... 
> 
> Just saw that these seems to be a way ... the pom allows defining license
> information:
> http://maven.apache.org/pom.html#Licenses
> I think I'm going to extend the generator to automatically add such a license
> headers to the poms. So as soon as there is such a plugin, this could be used.
> Eventually someone at Stackoverflow might even give me a pointer to existing
> functionality that I didn't find yet.
> 
> Unfortunatley I think adding these headers might be a pretty tricky task
> having a look at how the licenses are currently being defined.
> 
> In the root of the FDKs the license htmls contain some information about which
> elements have which license, some the libs themselves sometimes have license
> files accompaning them.
> Some have License files inside the jars root ... some inside the jars META-INF
> directory :-( ... guess it would be the best way to manually create a mapping
> file telling the generator which version of which file has which license in
> order to generate this pretty valuable additional information.
> 
> I guess inside the framework things are a lot simpler ... assuming textLayout
> and osmf being the only resources not having the Adobe Flex SDK License
> Agreement (For Adobe FDKs) or Apache v2 (For Apache FDKs).
> 
> Chris
> 
> [ C h r i s t o f e r  D u t z ]
> 
> C-Ware IT-Service
> Inhaber
> Dipl. Inf. Christofer Dutz
> Karlstraße. 104, 64285 Darmstadt
> 
> 
>    IT- und Systemhäuser
> 
> fon:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 61
> fax:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 64
> mobil:  0171 / 7 444 2 33
> email:  christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
> http://www.c-ware.de
> 
> UStId-Nr. DE195700962
> 
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: christofer.dutz@c-ware.de [mailto:christofer.dutz@c-ware.de]
> Gesendet: Samstag, 29. September 2012 13:18
> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1
> 
> Hi Alex,
> 
> well unfortunately it doesn't deal with licenses, so you can't sort of have
> the license type as metadata and tell your build that you only want Apache
> License Stuff in your build. Would be a great feature though ... think I might
> relay this question to the Maven list ;-)
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [ C h r i s t o f e r  D u t z ]
> 
> C-Ware IT-Service
> Inhaber
> Dipl. Inf. Christofer Dutz
> Karlstraße. 104, 64285 Darmstadt
> 
> 
>    IT- und Systemhäuser
> 
> fon:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 61
> fax:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 64
> mobil:  0171 / 7 444 2 33
> email:  christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
> http://www.c-ware.de
> 
> UStId-Nr. DE195700962
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. September 2012 00:11
> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1
> 
> One more question (since we've been beating up the installer folks about
> this): how does Maven deal with licenses?  Our Ant script stops and requires
> that you hit a key to accept a license.  Can Maven do the same?  Otherwise it
> seems like you could end up downloading some dependency with a license you
> didn't agree with.
> 
> -Ale
> 
> 
> On 9/26/12 2:59 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
> 
>> That would be awesome! :)
>> 
>> El miércoles, 26 de septiembre de 2012, christofer.dutz@c-ware.de escribió:
>> 
>> 
>>> Well in general it would be enough if Adobe simply published the
>>> airglobal, playerglobal and osmf swcs along with their language
>>> resources to a public repo ... only these 3 artifacts would be enough
>>> to make us all really really happy and Apache could start officially
>>> deploying Flex FDKs using maven without any legal issues.
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
> 

-- 
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

AW: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>.

99% of my companies Maven repo is filled with stuff containing several licenses, but these are all some sort of open-source licenses and there is no manual effort needed to have Nexus/Artifactory automatically import them from other repos. For those 1% of the commercial libs, I usually only have to deploy them manually. Fortunately they are usually only one or two jars or swcs/swfs so this isn't a big issue. Having to deploy all of the artifacts of Flex however would take me a full week of manual uploading of artifacts. This is the main Issue with deploying the Flex SDKs ... the number of artifacts.

Regarding your legal questions about being allowed to upload commercial libs to a companies repo. I guess this is a gray zone. Usually the licenses allow you to use a lib but don't tell you how you are allowed to save it. Certainly it would be allowed to store the zip with my libs on a remote file-share ... I think of maven being exactly the same. Most licenses are bound to the number of developers using it and this is something I have to handle inside my company. No matter if I distribute the files using Maven or by copying the content of a zip from one share to another.

Chris

[ C h r i s t o f e r  D u t z ]

C-Ware IT-Service
Inhaber
Dipl. Inf. Christofer Dutz
Karlstraße. 104, 64285 Darmstadt

   IT- und Systemhäuser

fon:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 61
fax:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 64
mobil:  0171 / 7 444 2 33
email:  christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
http://www.c-ware.de

UStId-Nr. DE195700962

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com] 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. Oktober 2012 18:18
An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

On 10/15/12 11:57 PM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de"
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:

> Hi Alex,
> 
> But I think adding not adding potentially very usefull information, 
> just because noone uses it will certainly not help the tag being used 
> some day ;-) .. I know that Artifactory Pro for example allows to 
> filter artifacs based on this information. So I think adding these 
> tags to the pom will not do any harm, but provide some information that could be valuable in the future.
I don't have any problem with filling out the license tags, but I'm not sure that will be sufficient for Adobe.
> 
> What groupId are you talking about? The general gid I was using 
> "com.adobe.flex", "com.adobe.flash" and "com.adobe.air"? If Adobe 
> would like to have something different here, now is the time for me to 
> adjust this. So please simply tell me what to use instead ... I am 
> also glad to change anything else Adobe or Apache would like me to 
> change. This is the main reason for taking this issue to this 
> mailinglist :-) In the end I would like to have Mavenized FDKs all participants can live with.
I'm not sure if Adobe will want to change things like com.adobe.flash.framework or not.

There is no guarantee that Adobe will agree to hosting POMs for its pieces (and explode out the AIR SDK, for example).  But I need to get familiar enough with it so I can ask about it.

Can the AIR SDK be in ZIP/TAR form or does it have to be broken out?

I would find it hard to believe that every other Maven artifact in the world
has a permissive license.   Do you know of any artifacts that have
proprietary licenses?  How do they handle their licensing?  If the general rule is that there are no licensing prompts in Maven and I can point to other Adobe-like corporations who are ok with that, then I have a better chance of getting Adobe to pass on requiring licensing dialogs.

I agree for now that having folks download the Adobe stuff first is "safer"
legally, but having all of these separate downloads is a pain point (and is one of the good things about the Installer), so getting Adobe stuff to be legitimate Maven dependencies is currently worth a try.

--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>.

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
> Thanks Greg.  Do you happen to know if those non-permissive licenses allow
> for re-distribution within a company?  Are those packages you manually
> download full-fledged Maven artifacts or does someone else Maven-ize them?

I'll confess that I don't pay too much attention to it. I put up
what's needed for a build and let the lawyers sort out the details :-)

I'm pretty sure (though I could be wrong) that all the Java
dependencies that used to be proprietary allowed internal
redistribution. They just didn't want you to ship them with your app
without licensing or whatever.

Greg

AW: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>.

I'd say manually mavenizing a previously downloaded Flex sdk is a task nobody will be willing to do. Even if such a Mavenized FDK was downloadable ... manually deploying that to a mmaven repository would be insane. I created the Generator in order to automatically do this transformation from a downloaded FDK to a mavenized one. Using the deployer the deployment can be automated too.

Assuming that we would use the FDK Generator, I'd say there are 3 Types of developers:
1. The "consumers": That expect everything to be setup so they can start using something without any effort ... just add a dependency and off you go. These would feel insulted by such a solution
2. The Powerusers: They know how to read a website and manage to download the FDKs, the generator and use that to deploy to their own repo. These would be anoyed by the need to have to do this, but would probably settle with it and be happy.
3. People like me :-) People that would be glad to finally get their hans on a mavenized FDK of their favourite Flex release and be happy to get their fingers dirty a little in order to use it.

Chris

[ C h r i s t o f e r  D u t z ]

C-Ware IT-Service
Inhaber
Dipl. Inf. Christofer Dutz
Karlstraße. 104, 64285 Darmstadt

   IT- und Systemhäuser

fon:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 61
fax:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 64
mobil:  0171 / 7 444 2 33
email:  christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
http://www.c-ware.de

UStId-Nr. DE195700962

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com] 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. Oktober 2012 19:42
An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

On 10/16/12 9:58 AM, "Greg Reddin" <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> With most projects I've been involved in I've had to manually download 
> non-permissive stuff and host it in a company repo like Artifactory. I 
> think it's a bit of an unfortunate fact of our existence that Flex, 
> for a while at least, will be dependent on non-open source libraries 
> like the Flash runtime. It may mean that somebody can't just declare a 
> dependency to our code in their POM file and be off and running. We 
> may have to document that users will need to manually download and 
> install the Adobe stuff before the Flex code will be of any use to 
> them. At least that's the worst case scenario.
> 
> Greg
Thanks Greg.  Do you happen to know if those non-permissive licenses allow for re-distribution within a company?  Are those packages you manually download full-fledged Maven artifacts or does someone else Maven-ize them?

To others:  Is manual download of the Adobe stuff sufficient?  Or is this going to be an important barrier for Apache Flex that we need to solve?

--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Miguel Serrano <ms...@gmail.com>.

In most Gambling and Casino companies I know, Maven (or dependency
management tools compatible with Maven repos) is a must. I explicitly say
"compatible" as many build tools use to work with existing maven repos, as
it's the kind of "standard": Gradle, SBT, Ant+Ivy,...

On 16 October 2012 20:25, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> On 10/16/12 12:05 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@codeoscopic.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Sure!
> >
> > companies building games could benefit of a maven driven development,
> My question is around "could".  Maven isn't the only build tool out there.
> Have the game companies that Adobe cares about chosen something other than
> Maven?
>

In most Gambling and Casino companies I know, Maven (or dependency
management tools compatible with Maven repos) is a must, not an option.
I explicitly say "compatible" as many build tools use to work with existing
maven repos, as it's the kind of "standard": Gradle, SBT, Ant+Ivy,...

>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>
>

-- 
Miguel Serrano Milano
mserranom@gmail.com

Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.



On 10/16/12 12:05 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:

> Sure!
> 
> companies building games could benefit of a maven driven development,
My question is around "could".  Maven isn't the only build tool out there.
Have the game companies that Adobe cares about chosen something other than
Maven?

-- 
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@codeoscopic.com>.

Sure!

companies building games could benefit of a maven driven development,
the same happen years ago with VCSs...all companies managing source
code use it regarding if they are focused in IT sector, gamming
sector, or whatever... it's only a matter that companies like Adobe
make it easy the use of tools like maven since the IDEs and tools are
created in house.

In fact IDEs like flash builder should embrace a global project
descriptor instead of use it's own version (like pom.xml). So a
project defined by a pom should be imported into the tool.

Definitely Adobe should take maven more seroiusly since it benefits
gammig and other scenarios...

2012/10/16 Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>:
>
>
>
> On 10/16/12 11:30 AM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> for me is a barrier. I think Adobe should have it's own maven
>> repository with flash, air and other needed stuff to ease development
>> of people using their software. I think it's something convenient for
>> Adobe as a company that sells technology to software integrators, game
>> developers and other people. If Adobe make this movement people using
>> maven will be more happy and will have access to the software Adobe is
>> trying to push. So all will gain from this.
> As you know Adobe is now emphasizing HTML and Gaming.  Would Maven really be
> used to create HTML-based web-apps and games?
>
>
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>

-- 
Carlos Rovira
Director de Tecnología
M: +34 607 22 60 05
F:  +34 912 35 57 77
CODEOSCOPIC S.A.
Avd. del General Perón, 32
Planta 10, Puertas P-Q
28020 Madrid

Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Roland Zwaga <ro...@stackandheap.com>.

>

> Flash gaming, yes.  HTML, no.
>
> Any app that uses pre-built artifacts (.jars, .swcs etc.) would be
> benefited by using Maven.   Game developers definitely use the same
> software techniques and tools like any other app developer.


Can I also add that deploying to a Maven repository doesn't just benefit
people
who use Maven as their build tool. Other build tools can use a Maven
repository
just as easily as remote dependency management storage.
Deploying to a Nexus or Artifactory server would therefore not
unnecessarily favor
one build tool over the other, its purely the ease of accessibility that
will be provided.

cheers,

Roland

AW: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>.

Well I know of no serious developer hand-coding HTML apps.

Usually most work involves using some frameworks JSF, GWT, the list is endles. The framework jars/resources are usually provided by maven. So could Adobe publish their frameworks, certainly making users happy ;-)

[ C h r i s t o f e r  D u t z ]

C-Ware IT-Service
Inhaber
Dipl. Inf. Christofer Dutz
Karlstraße. 104, 64285 Darmstadt

   IT- und Systemhäuser

fon:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 61
fax:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 64
mobil:  0171 / 7 444 2 33
email:  christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
http://www.c-ware.de

UStId-Nr. DE195700962

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: omuppi1@gmail.com [mailto:omuppi1@gmail.com] Im Auftrag von Om
Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. Oktober 2012 20:53
An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> On 10/16/12 11:30 AM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@codeoscopic.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Alex,
> >
> > for me is a barrier. I think Adobe should have it's own maven 
> > repository with flash, air and other needed stuff to ease 
> > development of people using their software. I think it's something 
> > convenient for Adobe as a company that sells technology to software 
> > integrators, game developers and other people. If Adobe make this 
> > movement people using maven will be more happy and will have access 
> > to the software Adobe is trying to push. So all will gain from this.
> As you know Adobe is now emphasizing HTML and Gaming.  Would Maven 
> really be used to create HTML-based web-apps and games?
>
>
>
Flash gaming, yes.  HTML, no.

Any app that uses pre-built artifacts (.jars, .swcs etc.) would be
benefited by using Maven.   Game developers definitely use the same
software techniques and tools like any other app developer.

> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>
>

Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Om <bi...@gmail.com>.

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> On 10/16/12 11:30 AM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@codeoscopic.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Alex,
> >
> > for me is a barrier. I think Adobe should have it's own maven
> > repository with flash, air and other needed stuff to ease development
> > of people using their software. I think it's something convenient for
> > Adobe as a company that sells technology to software integrators, game
> > developers and other people. If Adobe make this movement people using
> > maven will be more happy and will have access to the software Adobe is
> > trying to push. So all will gain from this.
> As you know Adobe is now emphasizing HTML and Gaming.  Would Maven really
> be
> used to create HTML-based web-apps and games?
>
>
>
Flash gaming, yes.  HTML, no.

Any app that uses pre-built artifacts (.jars, .swcs etc.) would be
benefited by using Maven.   Game developers definitely use the same
software techniques and tools like any other app developer.


> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>
>

Re: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@codeoscopic.com>.

So, to resume... CI is a trend in our industry and Adobe should take
care of this kind of things since are valuable for professionals that
continue evolving the way they produce software (in gamming, in web
development with standards (HTML5) or Apache Flex, in IT departments,
and so on...).

Adobe should evaluate if this kind of tool integration should come to
their products oriented to developers. And should provide at a minimun
a maven repo with all the basic software they want people to use.

Tools like Maven, Jenkins,... are the standard tools, so I think, at
least maven should be considered.

2012/10/17 Frédéric THOMAS <we...@hotmail.com>:
> Every serious big project nowdays uses a CI, html included, no long time a
> go it wasn't possible but because of the infatuation of html, they needed it
> and made it possible.
>
>
>
> -----Message d'origine----- From: Alex Harui
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 8:36 PM
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/16/12 11:30 AM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> for me is a barrier. I think Adobe should have it's own maven
>> repository with flash, air and other needed stuff to ease development
>> of people using their software. I think it's something convenient for
>> Adobe as a company that sells technology to software integrators, game
>> developers and other people. If Adobe make this movement people using
>> maven will be more happy and will have access to the software Adobe is
>> trying to push. So all will gain from this.
>
> As you know Adobe is now emphasizing HTML and Gaming.  Would Maven really be
> used to create HTML-based web-apps and games?
>
>
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>

-- 
Carlos Rovira
Director de Tecnología
M: +34 607 22 60 05
F:  +34 912 35 57 77
CODEOSCOPIC S.A.
Avd. del General Perón, 32
Planta 10, Puertas P-Q
28020 Madrid

Re: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Frédéric THOMAS <we...@hotmail.com>.

Every serious big project nowdays uses a CI, html included, no long time a 
go it wasn't possible but because of the infatuation of html, they needed it 
and made it possible.


-----Message d'origine----- 
From: Alex Harui
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 8:36 PM
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1




On 10/16/12 11:30 AM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:

> Hi Alex,
>
> for me is a barrier. I think Adobe should have it's own maven
> repository with flash, air and other needed stuff to ease development
> of people using their software. I think it's something convenient for
> Adobe as a company that sells technology to software integrators, game
> developers and other people. If Adobe make this movement people using
> maven will be more happy and will have access to the software Adobe is
> trying to push. So all will gain from this.
As you know Adobe is now emphasizing HTML and Gaming.  Would Maven really be
used to create HTML-based web-apps and games?



-- 
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.



On 10/16/12 11:30 AM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:

> Hi Alex,
> 
> for me is a barrier. I think Adobe should have it's own maven
> repository with flash, air and other needed stuff to ease development
> of people using their software. I think it's something convenient for
> Adobe as a company that sells technology to software integrators, game
> developers and other people. If Adobe make this movement people using
> maven will be more happy and will have access to the software Adobe is
> trying to push. So all will gain from this.
As you know Adobe is now emphasizing HTML and Gaming.  Would Maven really be
used to create HTML-based web-apps and games?



-- 
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>.

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
> Is there some other corporate repository or two I can use as a model
> (especially one that has proprietary licensing)?

Does anyone know if the java.net repo contains all open-source
libraries or if some of those libs are still proprietary?

Either way, it's here:

https://maven.java.net/content/groups/public/

I'd imagine at least the com.sun.* stuff is proprietary.

Greg

AW: AW: AW: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>.

If I could assist you in any way, I would be glad to help, if the result would be an official Adobe Maven Repo.

Chris

________________________________________
Von: Alex Harui [aharui@adobe.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. Oktober 2012 17:51
An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

I don't think the issue is that Adobe changes licenses for a particular
version after you accept it, it is that if you want to upgrade to a newer
version, you may need to accept a new license.

The simpler I can make this, the better chance it has of happening.

-Alex


On 10/17/12 3:28 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:

> Currently If I accept the Adobe license an download a FDK and Adobe decides to
> change the License details after me downloading it. There are no means to
> force me to accept the changed license. Same would apply to the szenario of a
> Adobe-Nexus which is accessed using username and password. My Artifactory
> would be configured to use that login when fetching stuff from Adobes Nexus
> and I would be able to use everything in an automated build environment ... My
> Artifactory server would fetch stuff it needs from Adobe automatically using
> the login I provided it with. If Adobe changed the license details all
> accounts would be disabled preventing my Server to fetch stuff untill I accept
> the changed licenses and my account is re-activated. Then everything should
> run smoothly untill the next license change.
>
> I think this approach would eliminate the need for Adobe to build something
> entirely new and simply use a standard Nexus and eventually develop a custom
> Plugin for registering and re-activating user accounts. The effort for Adobe
> would be minimal, but the benefit for developers would be at a max.
>
> Chris
>
>
> ________________________________________
> Von: Alex Harui [aharui@adobe.com]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. Oktober 2012 21:28
> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1
>
> On 10/16/12 12:11 PM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de"
> <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>> Maven doesn't provide the means to stall a dependency resolution and prompt
>> the user for accepting a license. The only thing you could do is to protect
>> access to the repository.
> It looks like the antrun plugin would allow me to use ant to prompt the
> user.  Haven't tried it yet.
>
>> One way you could simuplate this would by by starting any turnkey nexus or
>> artifactory server. There you could deploy some artifacts and configure the
>> repo not to allow anonymous access.
>> Now someone would need a login in order to fetch the libs. You could link the
>> process of creating an account to accepting the licenses you want. As soon as
>> someone creates a new account and accpts the licennse agreement, the nexus
>> account is created and the user could use this account to access the
>> artifacts.
>>
> I'm not sure that would be sufficient for Adobe.  For example, we altered
> the license between Flex 4 and Flex 4.5.  A login wouldn't let you pick up
> that change.
>
> Maybe Apache Flex or Adobe could provide a plugin to show the licenses like
> we do in the installer and additionally, remember which ones you accepted so
> that subsequent builds can be unattended.
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

RE: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Kessler CTR Mark J <ma...@usmc.mil>.

   Maybe you could setup a new process that has users agree to the license the first time and receive the new changes to the license in email.  I believe your cellular companies and insurance companies do this.  They inform you of the changes to your account/policy and send you an email.  Could that be done instead of having to enable/disable accounts constantly?

-Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: christofer.dutz@c-ware.de [mailto:christofer.dutz@c-ware.de] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 6:29
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: AW: AW: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Currently If I accept the Adobe license an download a FDK and Adobe decides to change the License details after me downloading it. There are no means to force me to accept the changed license. Same would apply to the szenario of a Adobe-Nexus which is accessed using username and password. My Artifactory would be configured to use that login when fetching stuff from Adobes Nexus and I would be able to use everything in an automated build environment ... My Artifactory server would fetch stuff it needs from Adobe automatically using the login I provided it with. If Adobe changed the license details all accounts would be disabled preventing my Server to fetch stuff untill I accept the changed licenses and my account is re-activated. Then everything should run smoothly untill the next license change.

I think this approach would eliminate the need for Adobe to build something entirely new and simply use a standard Nexus and eventually develop a custom Plugin for registering and re-activating user accounts. The effort for Adobe would be minimal, but the benefit for developers would be at a max.

Chris

Re: AW: AW: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.

I don't think the issue is that Adobe changes licenses for a particular
version after you accept it, it is that if you want to upgrade to a newer
version, you may need to accept a new license.

The simpler I can make this, the better chance it has of happening.

-Alex


On 10/17/12 3:28 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:

> Currently If I accept the Adobe license an download a FDK and Adobe decides to
> change the License details after me downloading it. There are no means to
> force me to accept the changed license. Same would apply to the szenario of a
> Adobe-Nexus which is accessed using username and password. My Artifactory
> would be configured to use that login when fetching stuff from Adobes Nexus
> and I would be able to use everything in an automated build environment ... My
> Artifactory server would fetch stuff it needs from Adobe automatically using
> the login I provided it with. If Adobe changed the license details all
> accounts would be disabled preventing my Server to fetch stuff untill I accept
> the changed licenses and my account is re-activated. Then everything should
> run smoothly untill the next license change.
> 
> I think this approach would eliminate the need for Adobe to build something
> entirely new and simply use a standard Nexus and eventually develop a custom
> Plugin for registering and re-activating user accounts. The effort for Adobe
> would be minimal, but the benefit for developers would be at a max.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> ________________________________________
> Von: Alex Harui [aharui@adobe.com]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. Oktober 2012 21:28
> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1
> 
> On 10/16/12 12:11 PM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de"
> <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>> Maven doesn't provide the means to stall a dependency resolution and prompt
>> the user for accepting a license. The only thing you could do is to protect
>> access to the repository.
> It looks like the antrun plugin would allow me to use ant to prompt the
> user.  Haven't tried it yet.
> 
>> One way you could simuplate this would by by starting any turnkey nexus or
>> artifactory server. There you could deploy some artifacts and configure the
>> repo not to allow anonymous access.
>> Now someone would need a login in order to fetch the libs. You could link the
>> process of creating an account to accepting the licenses you want. As soon as
>> someone creates a new account and accpts the licennse agreement, the nexus
>> account is created and the user could use this account to access the
>> artifacts.
>> 
> I'm not sure that would be sufficient for Adobe.  For example, we altered
> the license between Flex 4 and Flex 4.5.  A login wouldn't let you pick up
> that change.
> 
> Maybe Apache Flex or Adobe could provide a plugin to show the licenses like
> we do in the installer and additionally, remember which ones you accepted so
> that subsequent builds can be unattended.
> 
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

-- 
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

AW: AW: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>.

Currently If I accept the Adobe license an download a FDK and Adobe decides to change the License details after me downloading it. There are no means to force me to accept the changed license. Same would apply to the szenario of a Adobe-Nexus which is accessed using username and password. My Artifactory would be configured to use that login when fetching stuff from Adobes Nexus and I would be able to use everything in an automated build environment ... My Artifactory server would fetch stuff it needs from Adobe automatically using the login I provided it with. If Adobe changed the license details all accounts would be disabled preventing my Server to fetch stuff untill I accept the changed licenses and my account is re-activated. Then everything should run smoothly untill the next license change.

I think this approach would eliminate the need for Adobe to build something entirely new and simply use a standard Nexus and eventually develop a custom Plugin for registering and re-activating user accounts. The effort for Adobe would be minimal, but the benefit for developers would be at a max.

Chris

________________________________________
Von: Alex Harui [aharui@adobe.com]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. Oktober 2012 21:28
An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

On 10/16/12 12:11 PM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de"
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> Maven doesn't provide the means to stall a dependency resolution and prompt
> the user for accepting a license. The only thing you could do is to protect
> access to the repository.
It looks like the antrun plugin would allow me to use ant to prompt the
user.  Haven't tried it yet.

> One way you could simuplate this would by by starting any turnkey nexus or
> artifactory server. There you could deploy some artifacts and configure the
> repo not to allow anonymous access.
> Now someone would need a login in order to fetch the libs. You could link the
> process of creating an account to accepting the licenses you want. As soon as
> someone creates a new account and accpts the licennse agreement, the nexus
> account is created and the user could use this account to access the
> artifacts.
>
I'm not sure that would be sufficient for Adobe.  For example, we altered
the license between Flex 4 and Flex 4.5.  A login wouldn't let you pick up
that change.

Maybe Apache Flex or Adobe could provide a plugin to show the licenses like
we do in the installer and additionally, remember which ones you accepted so
that subsequent builds can be unattended.

--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

AW: AW: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>.

Well you could disable the accounts if accepting a changed license agreement is needed and provide the means to re-activate it by accepting the licenses ... just a thought.


[ C h r i s t o f e r  D u t z ]

C-Ware IT-Service
Inhaber
Dipl. Inf. Christofer Dutz
Karlstraße. 104, 64285 Darmstadt


   IT- und Systemhäuser

fon:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 61
fax:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 64
mobil:  0171 / 7 444 2 33
email:  christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
http://www.c-ware.de

UStId-Nr. DE195700962


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com] 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. Oktober 2012 21:29
An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1




On 10/16/12 12:11 PM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de"
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> Maven doesn't provide the means to stall a dependency resolution and 
> prompt the user for accepting a license. The only thing you could do 
> is to protect access to the repository.
It looks like the antrun plugin would allow me to use ant to prompt the user.  Haven't tried it yet.

> One way you could simuplate this would by by starting any turnkey 
> nexus or artifactory server. There you could deploy some artifacts and 
> configure the repo not to allow anonymous access.
> Now someone would need a login in order to fetch the libs. You could 
> link the process of creating an account to accepting the licenses you 
> want. As soon as someone creates a new account and accpts the licennse 
> agreement, the nexus account is created and the user could use this 
> account to access the artifacts.
> 
I'm not sure that would be sufficient for Adobe.  For example, we altered the license between Flex 4 and Flex 4.5.  A login wouldn't let you pick up that change.

Maybe Apache Flex or Adobe could provide a plugin to show the licenses like we do in the installer and additionally, remember which ones you accepted so that subsequent builds can be unattended.

--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

Re: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Frédéric THOMAS <we...@hotmail.com>.

Yes, it can be used during a build, the point is that one of the interest in 
using Maven is to have continous automatized build system which is not 
compatible with prompting.

-----Message d'origine----- 
From: Alex Harui
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 9:28 PM
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: AW: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1




On 10/16/12 12:11 PM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de"
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> Maven doesn't provide the means to stall a dependency resolution and 
> prompt
> the user for accepting a license. The only thing you could do is to 
> protect
> access to the repository.
It looks like the antrun plugin would allow me to use ant to prompt the
user.  Haven't tried it yet.

> One way you could simuplate this would by by starting any turnkey nexus or
> artifactory server. There you could deploy some artifacts and configure 
> the
> repo not to allow anonymous access.
> Now someone would need a login in order to fetch the libs. You could link 
> the
> process of creating an account to accepting the licenses you want. As soon 
> as
> someone creates a new account and accpts the licennse agreement, the nexus
> account is created and the user could use this account to access the
> artifacts.
>
I'm not sure that would be sufficient for Adobe.  For example, we altered
the license between Flex 4 and Flex 4.5.  A login wouldn't let you pick up
that change.

Maybe Apache Flex or Adobe could provide a plugin to show the licenses like
we do in the installer and additionally, remember which ones you accepted so
that subsequent builds can be unattended.

-- 
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

Re: AW: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.



On 10/16/12 12:11 PM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de"
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> Maven doesn't provide the means to stall a dependency resolution and prompt
> the user for accepting a license. The only thing you could do is to protect
> access to the repository.
It looks like the antrun plugin would allow me to use ant to prompt the
user.  Haven't tried it yet.

> One way you could simuplate this would by by starting any turnkey nexus or
> artifactory server. There you could deploy some artifacts and configure the
> repo not to allow anonymous access.
> Now someone would need a login in order to fetch the libs. You could link the
> process of creating an account to accepting the licenses you want. As soon as
> someone creates a new account and accpts the licennse agreement, the nexus
> account is created and the user could use this account to access the
> artifacts.
> 
I'm not sure that would be sufficient for Adobe.  For example, we altered
the license between Flex 4 and Flex 4.5.  A login wouldn't let you pick up
that change.

Maybe Apache Flex or Adobe could provide a plugin to show the licenses like
we do in the installer and additionally, remember which ones you accepted so
that subsequent builds can be unattended.

-- 
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

AW: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>.

Unfortunately I don't know of any such repositoy. As I mentioned, most properitary components with individual licenses consist of only one or two libs and the distributors don't bother with distribuing them using maven. 

Maven doesn't provide the means to stall a dependency resolution and prompt the user for accepting a license. The only thing you could do is to protect access to the repository. 
One way you could simuplate this would by by starting any turnkey nexus or artifactory server. There you could deploy some artifacts and configure the repo not to allow anonymous access. 
Now someone would need a login in order to fetch the libs. You could link the process of creating an account to accepting the licenses you want. As soon as someone creates a new account and accpts the licennse agreement, the nexus account is created and the user could use this account to access the artifacts.

Chris

[ C h r i s t o f e r  D u t z ]

C-Ware IT-Service
Inhaber
Dipl. Inf. Christofer Dutz
Karlstraße. 104, 64285 Darmstadt

   IT- und Systemhäuser

fon:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 61
fax:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 64
mobil:  0171 / 7 444 2 33
email:  christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
http://www.c-ware.de

UStId-Nr. DE195700962

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com] 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. Oktober 2012 20:38
An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Is there some other corporate repository or two I can use as a model (especially one that has proprietary licensing)?

On 10/16/12 11:33 AM, "Om" <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Carlos Rovira < 
> carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Alex,
>> 
>> for me is a barrier. I think Adobe should have it's own maven 
>> repository with flash, air and other needed stuff to ease development 
>> of people using their software. I think it's something convenient for 
>> Adobe as a company that sells technology to software integrators, 
>> game developers and other people. If Adobe make this movement people 
>> using maven will be more happy and will have access to the software 
>> Adobe is trying to push. So all will gain from this.
>> 
>> why it would be a barrier? because nowadays build software and CI 
>> servers is a must and people expect to have all solved with some 
>> scripting. If we say "you have to set this and that manually, 
>> downloading version X and putting in some folder here or there", 
>> we'll never could compete in the big league.
>> 
>> just my 2ctns.
>> 
>> Carlos Rovira
>> 
>> 
> 
> +1 to what Carlos says.
> 
> Thanks,
> Om
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>>> To others:  Is manual download of the Adobe stuff sufficient?  Or is 
>>> this going to be an important barrier for Apache Flex that we need to solve?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Alex Harui
>>> Flex SDK Team
>>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Carlos Rovira
>> Director de Tecnología
>> M: +34 607 22 60 05
>> F:  +34 912 35 57 77
>> CODEOSCOPIC S.A.
>> Avd. del General Perón, 32
>> Planta 10, Puertas P-Q
>> 28020 Madrid
>> 

--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.

Is there some other corporate repository or two I can use as a model
(especially one that has proprietary licensing)?


On 10/16/12 11:33 AM, "Om" <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Carlos Rovira <
> carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Alex,
>> 
>> for me is a barrier. I think Adobe should have it's own maven
>> repository with flash, air and other needed stuff to ease development
>> of people using their software. I think it's something convenient for
>> Adobe as a company that sells technology to software integrators, game
>> developers and other people. If Adobe make this movement people using
>> maven will be more happy and will have access to the software Adobe is
>> trying to push. So all will gain from this.
>> 
>> why it would be a barrier? because nowadays build software and CI
>> servers is a must and people expect to have all solved with some
>> scripting. If we say "you have to set this and that manually,
>> downloading version X and putting in some folder here or there", we'll
>> never could compete in the big league.
>> 
>> just my 2ctns.
>> 
>> Carlos Rovira
>> 
>> 
> 
> +1 to what Carlos says.
> 
> Thanks,
> Om
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>>> To others:  Is manual download of the Adobe stuff sufficient?  Or is this
>>> going to be an important barrier for Apache Flex that we need to solve?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Alex Harui
>>> Flex SDK Team
>>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Carlos Rovira
>> Director de Tecnología
>> M: +34 607 22 60 05
>> F:  +34 912 35 57 77
>> CODEOSCOPIC S.A.
>> Avd. del General Perón, 32
>> Planta 10, Puertas P-Q
>> 28020 Madrid
>> 

-- 
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Om <bi...@gmail.com>.

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Carlos Rovira <
carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com> wrote:

> Hi Alex,
>
> for me is a barrier. I think Adobe should have it's own maven
> repository with flash, air and other needed stuff to ease development
> of people using their software. I think it's something convenient for
> Adobe as a company that sells technology to software integrators, game
> developers and other people. If Adobe make this movement people using
> maven will be more happy and will have access to the software Adobe is
> trying to push. So all will gain from this.
>
> why it would be a barrier? because nowadays build software and CI
> servers is a must and people expect to have all solved with some
> scripting. If we say "you have to set this and that manually,
> downloading version X and putting in some folder here or there", we'll
> never could compete in the big league.
>
> just my 2ctns.
>
> Carlos Rovira
>
>

+1 to what Carlos says.

Thanks,
Om



>
> > To others:  Is manual download of the Adobe stuff sufficient?  Or is this
> > going to be an important barrier for Apache Flex that we need to solve?
> >
> > --
> > Alex Harui
> > Flex SDK Team
> > Adobe Systems, Inc.
> > http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> Director de Tecnología
> M: +34 607 22 60 05
> F:  +34 912 35 57 77
> CODEOSCOPIC S.A.
> Avd. del General Perón, 32
> Planta 10, Puertas P-Q
> 28020 Madrid
>

Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@codeoscopic.com>.

Hi Alex,

for me is a barrier. I think Adobe should have it's own maven
repository with flash, air and other needed stuff to ease development
of people using their software. I think it's something convenient for
Adobe as a company that sells technology to software integrators, game
developers and other people. If Adobe make this movement people using
maven will be more happy and will have access to the software Adobe is
trying to push. So all will gain from this.

why it would be a barrier? because nowadays build software and CI
servers is a must and people expect to have all solved with some
scripting. If we say "you have to set this and that manually,
downloading version X and putting in some folder here or there", we'll
never could compete in the big league.

just my 2ctns.

Carlos Rovira


> To others:  Is manual download of the Adobe stuff sufficient?  Or is this
> going to be an important barrier for Apache Flex that we need to solve?
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>



-- 
Carlos Rovira
Director de Tecnología
M: +34 607 22 60 05
F:  +34 912 35 57 77
CODEOSCOPIC S.A.
Avd. del General Perón, 32
Planta 10, Puertas P-Q
28020 Madrid

Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.



On 10/16/12 9:58 AM, "Greg Reddin" <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> With most projects I've been involved in I've had to manually download
> non-permissive stuff and host it in a company repo like Artifactory. I
> think it's a bit of an unfortunate fact of our existence that Flex,
> for a while at least, will be dependent on non-open source libraries
> like the Flash runtime. It may mean that somebody can't just declare a
> dependency to our code in their POM file and be off and running. We
> may have to document that users will need to manually download and
> install the Adobe stuff before the Flex code will be of any use to
> them. At least that's the worst case scenario.
> 
> Greg
Thanks Greg.  Do you happen to know if those non-permissive licenses allow
for re-distribution within a company?  Are those packages you manually
download full-fledged Maven artifacts or does someone else Maven-ize them?

To others:  Is manual download of the Adobe stuff sufficient?  Or is this
going to be an important barrier for Apache Flex that we need to solve?

-- 
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>.

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
> I would find it hard to believe that every other Maven artifact in the world
> has a permissive license.   Do you know of any artifacts that have
> proprietary licenses?  How do they handle their licensing?  If the general
> rule is that there are no licensing prompts in Maven and I can point to
> other Adobe-like corporations who are ok with that, then I have a better
> chance of getting Adobe to pass on requiring licensing dialogs.
>
> I agree for now that having folks download the Adobe stuff first is "safer"
> legally, but having all of these separate downloads is a pain point (and is
> one of the good things about the Installer), so getting Adobe stuff to be
> legitimate Maven dependencies is currently worth a try.

With most projects I've been involved in I've had to manually download
non-permissive stuff and host it in a company repo like Artifactory. I
think it's a bit of an unfortunate fact of our existence that Flex,
for a while at least, will be dependent on non-open source libraries
like the Flash runtime. It may mean that somebody can't just declare a
dependency to our code in their POM file and be off and running. We
may have to document that users will need to manually download and
install the Adobe stuff before the Flex code will be of any use to
them. At least that's the worst case scenario.

Greg

Re: AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.

On 10/15/12 11:57 PM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de"
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:

> Hi Alex,
> 
> But I think adding not adding potentially very usefull information, just
> because noone uses it will certainly not help the tag being used some day ;-)
> .. I know that Artifactory Pro for example allows to filter artifacs based on
> this information. So I think adding these tags to the pom will not do any
> harm, but provide some information that could be valuable in the future.
I don't have any problem with filling out the license tags, but I'm not sure
that will be sufficient for Adobe.
> 
> What groupId are you talking about? The general gid I was using
> "com.adobe.flex", "com.adobe.flash" and "com.adobe.air"? If Adobe would like
> to have something different here, now is the time for me to adjust this. So
> please simply tell me what to use instead ... I am also glad to change
> anything else Adobe or Apache would like me to change. This is the main reason
> for taking this issue to this mailinglist :-) In the end I would like to have
> Mavenized FDKs all participants can live with.
I'm not sure if Adobe will want to change things like
com.adobe.flash.framework or not.

There is no guarantee that Adobe will agree to hosting POMs for its pieces
(and explode out the AIR SDK, for example).  But I need to get familiar
enough with it so I can ask about it.

Can the AIR SDK be in ZIP/TAR form or does it have to be broken out?

I would find it hard to believe that every other Maven artifact in the world
has a permissive license.   Do you know of any artifacts that have
proprietary licenses?  How do they handle their licensing?  If the general
rule is that there are no licensing prompts in Maven and I can point to
other Adobe-like corporations who are ok with that, then I have a better
chance of getting Adobe to pass on requiring licensing dialogs.

I agree for now that having folks download the Adobe stuff first is "safer"
legally, but having all of these separate downloads is a pain point (and is
one of the good things about the Installer), so getting Adobe stuff to be
legitimate Maven dependencies is currently worth a try.

-- 
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>.

Hi Alex,

But I think adding not adding potentially very usefull information, just because noone uses it will certainly not help the tag being used some day ;-) .. I know that Artifactory Pro for example allows to filter artifacs based on this information. So I think adding these tags to the pom will not do any harm, but provide some information that could be valuable in the future.

What groupId are you talking about? The general gid I was using "com.adobe.flex", "com.adobe.flash" and "com.adobe.air"? If Adobe would like to have something different here, now is the time for me to adjust this. So please simply tell me what to use instead ... I am also glad to change anything else Adobe or Apache would like me to change. This is the main reason for taking this issue to this mailinglist :-) In the end I would like to have Mavenized FDKs all participants can live with.

Chris

________________________________________
Von: Alex Harui [aharui@adobe.com]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. Oktober 2012 01:25
An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Finally got time to read a little about this.  Since there is currently no
official usage of the license tag, I think I would rather try to prompt the
user like we do now in the Ant build.  It looks like this might be
achievable via maven-antrun-plugin.

I looked at the POMs in the link you sent.  That seems pretty
straightforward although Adobe might want a different groupId.  But then
we'd need to add the use of maven-antrun-plugin to these POMs in order to
prompt for the Adobe license right?

On 9/29/12 4:47 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:

> Ups ...
>
> Just saw that these seems to be a way ... the pom allows defining license
> information:
> http://maven.apache.org/pom.html#Licenses
> I think I'm going to extend the generator to automatically add such a license
> headers to the poms. So as soon as there is such a plugin, this could be used.
> Eventually someone at Stackoverflow might even give me a pointer to existing
> functionality that I didn't find yet.
>
> Unfortunatley I think adding these headers might be a pretty tricky task
> having a look at how the licenses are currently being defined.
>
> In the root of the FDKs the license htmls contain some information about which
> elements have which license, some the libs themselves sometimes have license
> files accompaning them.
> Some have License files inside the jars root ... some inside the jars META-INF
> directory :-( ... guess it would be the best way to manually create a mapping
> file telling the generator which version of which file has which license in
> order to generate this pretty valuable additional information.
>
> I guess inside the framework things are a lot simpler ... assuming textLayout
> and osmf being the only resources not having the Adobe Flex SDK License
> Agreement (For Adobe FDKs) or Apache v2 (For Apache FDKs).
>
> Chris
>
> [ C h r i s t o f e r  D u t z ]
>
> C-Ware IT-Service
> Inhaber
> Dipl. Inf. Christofer Dutz
> Karlstraße. 104, 64285 Darmstadt
>
>
>    IT- und Systemhäuser
>
> fon:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 61
> fax:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 64
> mobil:  0171 / 7 444 2 33
> email:  christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
> http://www.c-ware.de
>
> UStId-Nr. DE195700962
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: christofer.dutz@c-ware.de [mailto:christofer.dutz@c-ware.de]
> Gesendet: Samstag, 29. September 2012 13:18
> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1
>
> Hi Alex,
>
> well unfortunately it doesn't deal with licenses, so you can't sort of have
> the license type as metadata and tell your build that you only want Apache
> License Stuff in your build. Would be a great feature though ... think I might
> relay this question to the Maven list ;-)
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> [ C h r i s t o f e r  D u t z ]
>
> C-Ware IT-Service
> Inhaber
> Dipl. Inf. Christofer Dutz
> Karlstraße. 104, 64285 Darmstadt
>
>
>    IT- und Systemhäuser
>
> fon:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 61
> fax:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 64
> mobil:  0171 / 7 444 2 33
> email:  christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
> http://www.c-ware.de
>
> UStId-Nr. DE195700962
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. September 2012 00:11
> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1
>
> One more question (since we've been beating up the installer folks about
> this): how does Maven deal with licenses?  Our Ant script stops and requires
> that you hit a key to accept a license.  Can Maven do the same?  Otherwise it
> seems like you could end up downloading some dependency with a license you
> didn't agree with.
>
> -Ale
>
>
> On 9/26/12 2:59 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
>
>> That would be awesome! :)
>>
>> El miércoles, 26 de septiembre de 2012, christofer.dutz@c-ware.de escribió:
>>
>>
>>> Well in general it would be enough if Adobe simply published the
>>> airglobal, playerglobal and osmf swcs along with their language
>>> resources to a public repo ... only these 3 artifacts would be enough
>>> to make us all really really happy and Apache could start officially
>>> deploying Flex FDKs using maven without any legal issues.
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>

--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

AW: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Posted by "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>.

Well the usage szenario I was thinking about for the Generator was to start with the complete FDK saved on your local hard drive. As all artifacts are there you have obviously agreed to all licence agreements and I don't see a need to do so again in the Maven build or when executing the generator.

Chris

________________________________________
Von: Alex Harui [aharui@adobe.com]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. Oktober 2012 01:25
An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1

Finally got time to read a little about this.  Since there is currently no
official usage of the license tag, I think I would rather try to prompt the
user like we do now in the Ant build.  It looks like this might be
achievable via maven-antrun-plugin.

I looked at the POMs in the link you sent.  That seems pretty
straightforward although Adobe might want a different groupId.  But then
we'd need to add the use of maven-antrun-plugin to these POMs in order to
prompt for the Adobe license right?


On 9/29/12 4:47 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:

> Ups ...
>
> Just saw that these seems to be a way ... the pom allows defining license
> information:
> http://maven.apache.org/pom.html#Licenses
> I think I'm going to extend the generator to automatically add such a license
> headers to the poms. So as soon as there is such a plugin, this could be used.
> Eventually someone at Stackoverflow might even give me a pointer to existing
> functionality that I didn't find yet.
>
> Unfortunatley I think adding these headers might be a pretty tricky task
> having a look at how the licenses are currently being defined.
>
> In the root of the FDKs the license htmls contain some information about which
> elements have which license, some the libs themselves sometimes have license
> files accompaning them.
> Some have License files inside the jars root ... some inside the jars META-INF
> directory :-( ... guess it would be the best way to manually create a mapping
> file telling the generator which version of which file has which license in
> order to generate this pretty valuable additional information.
>
> I guess inside the framework things are a lot simpler ... assuming textLayout
> and osmf being the only resources not having the Adobe Flex SDK License
> Agreement (For Adobe FDKs) or Apache v2 (For Apache FDKs).
>
> Chris
>
> [ C h r i s t o f e r  D u t z ]
>
> C-Ware IT-Service
> Inhaber
> Dipl. Inf. Christofer Dutz
> Karlstraße. 104, 64285 Darmstadt
>
>
>    IT- und Systemhäuser
>
> fon:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 61
> fax:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 64
> mobil:  0171 / 7 444 2 33
> email:  christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
> http://www.c-ware.de
>
> UStId-Nr. DE195700962
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: christofer.dutz@c-ware.de [mailto:christofer.dutz@c-ware.de]
> Gesendet: Samstag, 29. September 2012 13:18
> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: AW: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1
>
> Hi Alex,
>
> well unfortunately it doesn't deal with licenses, so you can't sort of have
> the license type as metadata and tell your build that you only want Apache
> License Stuff in your build. Would be a great feature though ... think I might
> relay this question to the Maven list ;-)
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> [ C h r i s t o f e r  D u t z ]
>
> C-Ware IT-Service
> Inhaber
> Dipl. Inf. Christofer Dutz
> Karlstraße. 104, 64285 Darmstadt
>
>
>    IT- und Systemhäuser
>
> fon:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 61
> fax:  0 61 51 / 27315 - 64
> mobil:  0171 / 7 444 2 33
> email:  christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
> http://www.c-ware.de
>
> UStId-Nr. DE195700962
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. September 2012 00:11
> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: Flex Maven FDK Generator RC1
>
> One more question (since we've been beating up the installer folks about
> this): how does Maven deal with licenses?  Our Ant script stops and requires
> that you hit a key to accept a license.  Can Maven do the same?  Otherwise it
> seems like you could end up downloading some dependency with a license you
> didn't agree with.
>
> -Ale
>
>
> On 9/26/12 2:59 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
>
>> That would be awesome! :)
>>
>> El miércoles, 26 de septiembre de 2012, christofer.dutz@c-ware.de escribió:
>>
>>
>>> Well in general it would be enough if Adobe simply published the
>>> airglobal, playerglobal and osmf swcs along with their language
>>> resources to a public repo ... only these 3 artifacts would be enough
>>> to make us all really really happy and Apache could start officially
>>> deploying Flex FDKs using maven without any legal issues.
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>

--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui