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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by Kevin Kluge <Ke...@citrix.com> on 2012/04/20 03:21:05 UTC
RE: CloudStack training and the Apache way
Matt, thanks for the excellent feedback on how to work in the "Apache way". I've cc'd the public dev list as you suggested so all can benefit from your thoughts.
>From my original mail, we're looking to see if any long-time Apache members are interested in speaking about working in the "Apache way" at an upcoming CloudStack developer bootcamp. The bootcamp is May 2-3 in California, near San Jose. Please see http://cloudstack.org/about-cloudstack/cloudstack-events/viewevent/77-cloudstack-developer-on-ramp.html for current details on the event. The goal is to educate CloudStack developers (old and new) about the implications of being an Apache project from someone who has been there before and can speak authoritatively on the subject. Please let us know.
-kevin
From: Matt Hogstrom [mailto:hogstrom@apache.org]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 7:00 PM
To: Kevin Kluge
Cc: Brett Porter; Alex Karasulu; Jim Jagielski; Daniel Kulp; olamy@apache.org; David Nalley; Mohammad Nour El-Din
Subject: Re: CloudStack training and the Apache way
I can give you some insight on how things worked for apache Geronimo way back in the day and also provide some bruises and scars from what not to do :)
By way of background, I work for IBM and did at the time I was involved in Apache Geronimo as a committer and eventually the PMC member and chair. I'll list them as a set of thoughts in no particular order.
1. When items need to be discussed, always include the entire community. So, I'd move this discussion to the dev list at Incubator :)
2. It is paramount that people who are working on a project do so as individuals; not extensions of a company. For me, I ended up in situations in Apache Geronimo where IBM's interests and the community's interests were not aligned. I took a lot of grief from IBMers when I voted the way I thought that was in the best interest of the community rather than IBM. I hope all of the new comitters understand this. I view my role at Apache as an individual and part of the Apache community first, business considerations are much lower on the list of priorities.
3. Abstain from any appearance of evil. A bit of good Bibilical advice that transcends time. Do no evil and when in doubt, always do things in the open. We had a meeting at Java One where a number of the committers had organized. It turned out that some people had been deliberately "uninformed" of the event. It was not community like, it was inappropriate and indefensible. Make sure that when you see something that is not right that you actively work to fix it, don't ignore it.
4. Actively look to pay attention to people that are interested in helping out. Not everyone is a rockstar programmer. Lots of people might be a bit intimidated working with the other developers. Keep positive, protect the newcomers and encourage them by not ignoring their patches and providing feedback. That's how you build community.
5. Avoid cliques. Its easy to work with a group of people your familiar with.
6. Its about the community, not the code. Of course projects turn out code but the community is a number one consideration for comitters and PMC members.
7. Every project is unique and has a personality. You'll not find a lot of rules at Apache. Its deliberate to allow people and projects to do things their way. Of course all projects need oversight in terms of licensing, code clearance, things like that. But, there isn't a long list of rules you need to conquer and know. Do no harm is a good guiding principle.
8. Have fun.
9. IRC is a great way to keep the community connected.
In terms of the overview, when you have a meeting or phone call its almost always excluding some of the community as committers are spread out across the globe. Try to do everything by e-mail that you can, and, preferrably text, not rich e-mail.
Do not form any conclusions at the meeting. Tally up what was said, comments that were made and post that to the dev list. If a decision needs to be made, ALWAYS make sure the entire community can weigh in. Votes take time.
I think sharing what you guys want to cover during the meeting would be great ahead of time and capture everything you can in a Wiki. Remember to share the ideas.
You can post this to the dev list; I'd suggest that. Make everything open.
Matt
On Apr 18, 2012, at 6:07 PM, Kevin Kluge wrote:
We have gotten a lot of developer interest after the announcement. We're planning a two day, free boot camp on CloudStack development on May 2 and 3 in the Citrix offices in California. We'll go over architecture, APIs, checkout and build from source, and time-permitting do a sample code exercise. Of course, you guys are all welcome. You can sign up at http://cloudstack.org/about-cloudstack/cloudstack-events/viewevent/77-cloudstack-developer-on-ramp.html if you are interested.
As part of this we'd like to have someone speak for a bit on the Apache way, similar to what Brett did with http://lanyrd.com/2011/apachecon-north-america/skdqx/. Essentially provide an authoritative statement on Apache philosophies and characteristics of successful projects. Would anyone be interested in doing this? I am fairly sure I could pay for travel, etc. if so, and could confirm that as needed.
Failing that, would anyone have someone in the San Francisco area to recommend for this? We know Doug Cutting, but have already taken a fair bit of his time, so I'd like to spread the asks around if there are other good candidates.
Thanks.
-kevin
RE: CloudStack training and the Apache way
Posted by Kevin Kluge <Ke...@citrix.com>.
Matt, that's great news. Wednesday afternoon would be perfect. We're holding the bootcamp at Citrix offices in Santa Clara. It's the 4988 address at http://www.citrix.com/lang/English/lp/lp_2315837.asp. If it'd help I'm sure we can pick you up at the airport and/or take you to your hotel afterwards. Please do let us know when you have definite plans.
We've been promoting the event a fair bit. We posted to cloudstack-dev and have directly invited some community members we knew pre-Apache. There are a fair number of people travelling to attend. Certainly everyone is welcome.
-kevin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Hogstrom [mailto:hogstrom@apache.org]
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 12:30 PM
> To: Kevin Kluge
> Cc: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org; Brett Porter; Alex Karasulu; Jim
> Jagielski; Daniel Kulp; olamy@apache.org; David Nalley; Mohammad Nour El-
> Din
> Subject: Re: CloudStack training and the Apache way
>
> Kevin, I'm likely going to be in San Jose on unrelated business on Thursday /
> Friday. It might be possible to come by Wednesday afternoon. Not sure
> exactly where your planning on holding your get together. I'll be visiting one
> of the IBM labs in Silicon Valley for a two day meeting (3rd and 4th). I'm not
> sure who else lives in the area. Can't commit as of yet (still waiting for some
> travel arrangements to get nailed down).
>
> Thats said, I haven't looked at Incubator so I don't know to what extent you
> guys have opened up the invite beyond those that are local to attend. It
> should be open to all that are interested.
>
>
> On Apr 19, 2012, at 9:21 PM, Kevin Kluge wrote:
>
> > Matt, thanks for the excellent feedback on how to work in the "Apache
> way". I've cc'd the public dev list as you suggested so all can benefit from
> your thoughts.
> >
> > From my original mail, we're looking to see if any long-time Apache
> members are interested in speaking about working in the "Apache way" at
> an upcoming CloudStack developer bootcamp. The bootcamp is May 2-3 in
> California, near San Jose. Please see http://cloudstack.org/about-
> cloudstack/cloudstack-events/viewevent/77-cloudstack-developer-on-
> ramp.html for current details on the event. The goal is to educate
> CloudStack developers (old and new) about the implications of being an
> Apache project from someone who has been there before and can speak
> authoritatively on the subject. Please let us know.
> >
> > -kevin
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Matt Hogstrom [mailto:hogstrom@apache.org]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 7:00 PM
> > To: Kevin Kluge
> > Cc: Brett Porter; Alex Karasulu; Jim Jagielski; Daniel Kulp;
> olamy@apache.org; David Nalley; Mohammad Nour El-Din
> > Subject: Re: CloudStack training and the Apache way
> >
> > I can give you some insight on how things worked for apache Geronimo
> way back in the day and also provide some bruises and scars from what not
> to do :)
> >
> > By way of background, I work for IBM and did at the time I was involved in
> Apache Geronimo as a committer and eventually the PMC member and
> chair. I'll list them as a set of thoughts in no particular order.
> >
> > 1. When items need to be discussed, always include the entire community.
> So, I'd move this discussion to the dev list at Incubator :)
> >
> > 2. It is paramount that people who are working on a project do so as
> individuals; not extensions of a company. For me, I ended up in situations in
> Apache Geronimo where IBM's interests and the community's interests
> were not aligned. I took a lot of grief from IBMers when I voted the way I
> thought that was in the best interest of the community rather than IBM. I
> hope all of the new comitters understand this. I view my role at Apache as
> an individual and part of the Apache community first, business considerations
> are much lower on the list of priorities.
> >
> > 3. Abstain from any appearance of evil. A bit of good Bibilical advice that
> transcends time. Do no evil and when in doubt, always do things in the open.
> We had a meeting at Java One where a number of the committers had
> organized. It turned out that some people had been deliberately
> "uninformed" of the event. It was not community like, it was inappropriate
> and indefensible. Make sure that when you see something that is not right
> that you actively work to fix it, don't ignore it.
> >
> > 4. Actively look to pay attention to people that are interested in helping
> out. Not everyone is a rockstar programmer. Lots of people might be a bit
> intimidated working with the other developers. Keep positive, protect the
> newcomers and encourage them by not ignoring their patches and providing
> feedback. That's how you build community.
> >
> > 5. Avoid cliques. Its easy to work with a group of people your familiar with.
> >
> > 6. Its about the community, not the code. Of course projects turn out code
> but the community is a number one consideration for comitters and PMC
> members.
> >
> > 7. Every project is unique and has a personality. You'll not find a lot of rules
> at Apache. Its deliberate to allow people and projects to do things their way.
> Of course all projects need oversight in terms of licensing, code clearance,
> things like that. But, there isn't a long list of rules you need to conquer and
> know. Do no harm is a good guiding principle.
> >
> > 8. Have fun.
> >
> > 9. IRC is a great way to keep the community connected.
> >
> > In terms of the overview, when you have a meeting or phone call its almost
> always excluding some of the community as committers are spread out
> across the globe. Try to do everything by e-mail that you can, and,
> preferrably text, not rich e-mail.
> >
> > Do not form any conclusions at the meeting. Tally up what was said,
> comments that were made and post that to the dev list. If a decision needs
> to be made, ALWAYS make sure the entire community can weigh in. Votes
> take time.
> >
> > I think sharing what you guys want to cover during the meeting would be
> great ahead of time and capture everything you can in a Wiki. Remember to
> share the ideas.
> >
> > You can post this to the dev list; I'd suggest that. Make everything open.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > On Apr 18, 2012, at 6:07 PM, Kevin Kluge wrote:
> >
> >
> > We have gotten a lot of developer interest after the announcement.
> We're planning a two day, free boot camp on CloudStack development on
> May 2 and 3 in the Citrix offices in California. We'll go over architecture, APIs,
> checkout and build from source, and time-permitting do a sample code
> exercise. Of course, you guys are all welcome. You can sign up at
> http://cloudstack.org/about-cloudstack/cloudstack-events/viewevent/77-
> cloudstack-developer-on-ramp.html if you are interested.
> >
> > As part of this we'd like to have someone speak for a bit on the Apache
> way, similar to what Brett did with http://lanyrd.com/2011/apachecon-north-
> america/skdqx/. Essentially provide an authoritative statement on Apache
> philosophies and characteristics of successful projects. Would anyone be
> interested in doing this? I am fairly sure I could pay for travel, etc. if so, and
> could confirm that as needed.
> >
> > Failing that, would anyone have someone in the San Francisco area to
> recommend for this? We know Doug Cutting, but have already taken a fair
> bit of his time, so I'd like to spread the asks around if there are other good
> candidates.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -kevin
> >
> >
> >
> >
Re: CloudStack training and the Apache way
Posted by Matt Hogstrom <ho...@apache.org>.
Kevin, I'm likely going to be in San Jose on unrelated business on Thursday / Friday. It might be possible to come by Wednesday afternoon. Not sure exactly where your planning on holding your get together. I'll be visiting one of the IBM labs in Silicon Valley for a two day meeting (3rd and 4th). I'm not sure who else lives in the area. Can't commit as of yet (still waiting for some travel arrangements to get nailed down).
Thats said, I haven't looked at Incubator so I don't know to what extent you guys have opened up the invite beyond those that are local to attend. It should be open to all that are interested.
On Apr 19, 2012, at 9:21 PM, Kevin Kluge wrote:
> Matt, thanks for the excellent feedback on how to work in the "Apache way". I've cc'd the public dev list as you suggested so all can benefit from your thoughts.
>
> From my original mail, we're looking to see if any long-time Apache members are interested in speaking about working in the "Apache way" at an upcoming CloudStack developer bootcamp. The bootcamp is May 2-3 in California, near San Jose. Please see http://cloudstack.org/about-cloudstack/cloudstack-events/viewevent/77-cloudstack-developer-on-ramp.html for current details on the event. The goal is to educate CloudStack developers (old and new) about the implications of being an Apache project from someone who has been there before and can speak authoritatively on the subject. Please let us know.
>
> -kevin
>
>
>
> From: Matt Hogstrom [mailto:hogstrom@apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 7:00 PM
> To: Kevin Kluge
> Cc: Brett Porter; Alex Karasulu; Jim Jagielski; Daniel Kulp; olamy@apache.org; David Nalley; Mohammad Nour El-Din
> Subject: Re: CloudStack training and the Apache way
>
> I can give you some insight on how things worked for apache Geronimo way back in the day and also provide some bruises and scars from what not to do :)
>
> By way of background, I work for IBM and did at the time I was involved in Apache Geronimo as a committer and eventually the PMC member and chair. I'll list them as a set of thoughts in no particular order.
>
> 1. When items need to be discussed, always include the entire community. So, I'd move this discussion to the dev list at Incubator :)
>
> 2. It is paramount that people who are working on a project do so as individuals; not extensions of a company. For me, I ended up in situations in Apache Geronimo where IBM's interests and the community's interests were not aligned. I took a lot of grief from IBMers when I voted the way I thought that was in the best interest of the community rather than IBM. I hope all of the new comitters understand this. I view my role at Apache as an individual and part of the Apache community first, business considerations are much lower on the list of priorities.
>
> 3. Abstain from any appearance of evil. A bit of good Bibilical advice that transcends time. Do no evil and when in doubt, always do things in the open. We had a meeting at Java One where a number of the committers had organized. It turned out that some people had been deliberately "uninformed" of the event. It was not community like, it was inappropriate and indefensible. Make sure that when you see something that is not right that you actively work to fix it, don't ignore it.
>
> 4. Actively look to pay attention to people that are interested in helping out. Not everyone is a rockstar programmer. Lots of people might be a bit intimidated working with the other developers. Keep positive, protect the newcomers and encourage them by not ignoring their patches and providing feedback. That's how you build community.
>
> 5. Avoid cliques. Its easy to work with a group of people your familiar with.
>
> 6. Its about the community, not the code. Of course projects turn out code but the community is a number one consideration for comitters and PMC members.
>
> 7. Every project is unique and has a personality. You'll not find a lot of rules at Apache. Its deliberate to allow people and projects to do things their way. Of course all projects need oversight in terms of licensing, code clearance, things like that. But, there isn't a long list of rules you need to conquer and know. Do no harm is a good guiding principle.
>
> 8. Have fun.
>
> 9. IRC is a great way to keep the community connected.
>
> In terms of the overview, when you have a meeting or phone call its almost always excluding some of the community as committers are spread out across the globe. Try to do everything by e-mail that you can, and, preferrably text, not rich e-mail.
>
> Do not form any conclusions at the meeting. Tally up what was said, comments that were made and post that to the dev list. If a decision needs to be made, ALWAYS make sure the entire community can weigh in. Votes take time.
>
> I think sharing what you guys want to cover during the meeting would be great ahead of time and capture everything you can in a Wiki. Remember to share the ideas.
>
> You can post this to the dev list; I'd suggest that. Make everything open.
>
> Matt
>
> On Apr 18, 2012, at 6:07 PM, Kevin Kluge wrote:
>
>
> We have gotten a lot of developer interest after the announcement. We're planning a two day, free boot camp on CloudStack development on May 2 and 3 in the Citrix offices in California. We'll go over architecture, APIs, checkout and build from source, and time-permitting do a sample code exercise. Of course, you guys are all welcome. You can sign up at http://cloudstack.org/about-cloudstack/cloudstack-events/viewevent/77-cloudstack-developer-on-ramp.html if you are interested.
>
> As part of this we'd like to have someone speak for a bit on the Apache way, similar to what Brett did with http://lanyrd.com/2011/apachecon-north-america/skdqx/. Essentially provide an authoritative statement on Apache philosophies and characteristics of successful projects. Would anyone be interested in doing this? I am fairly sure I could pay for travel, etc. if so, and could confirm that as needed.
>
> Failing that, would anyone have someone in the San Francisco area to recommend for this? We know Doug Cutting, but have already taken a fair bit of his time, so I'd like to spread the asks around if there are other good candidates.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -kevin
>
>
>
>