Is S2 Ready for Prime Time?

[st...@gmail.com]

 ***  Please don't blast me for asking.  I'm simply looking for educated and
objective feedback ***

Is your company using Struts2?  We are starting a Proof of Concept this week
and I honestly don't even know where to begin!  I have read so many
different viewpoints about S2 that I can't tell whether I'm coming or
going.  What interfaces to implement?  What companion frameworks to
leverage?  What interceptor stacks to use?  What about the choice of UI
toolkits?  I read last night how the ajax support was being extracted from
S2 and made a plug-in.  I realize these are not easy questions, but I am
leading a Struts 2 subcommittee and I am being asked for recommendations and
timetables.  Do you think S2 is ready for prime time?

Thanks,
Scott

Re: Is S2 Ready for Prime Time?

[Ian Roughley <ia...@fdar.com>]

Yes.  I know of several companies that are using s2 in production 
environments.  I also know of an extremely large company that has 
started to use s2 for prototyping. 

As far as your other questions go - this really depends on the project.  
Like any design decision, the choices need to made depending on the 
services and features required.

/Ian

stanlick@gmail.com wrote:

> ***  Please don't blast me for asking.  I'm simply looking for 
> educated and
> objective feedback ***
>
> Is your company using Struts2?  We are starting a Proof of Concept 
> this week
> and I honestly don't even know where to begin!  I have read so many
> different viewpoints about S2 that I can't tell whether I'm coming or
> going.  What interfaces to implement?  What companion frameworks to
> leverage?  What interceptor stacks to use?  What about the choice of UI
> toolkits?  I read last night how the ajax support was being extracted 
> from
> S2 and made a plug-in.  I realize these are not easy questions, but I am
> leading a Struts 2 subcommittee and I am being asked for 
> recommendations and
> timetables.  Do you think S2 is ready for prime time?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
>

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Re: Is S2 Ready for Prime Time?

[Chris Pratt <th...@gmail.com>]

I just completed a project using it and I'd have to say I'm very impressed.
I have two criticisms, one directly about Struts and one about a supporting
API that we tried to use (Acegi (aka Spring Security)).

As far as the Struts criticism I don't like the fact that the default struts
tag behaviour is to insert things into my code that I didn't ask for.  And
furthermore that it relies on an additional, heavy-weight technology that I
don't use anywhere else in my system.  And it seems that switching to
theme="simple" doesn't turn off that heavy-weight requirement, it just uses
it with even less of a benefit.

I think it's great that some people have the ability to code at the level
where the programmers decide everything including the look and feel of all
forms on the site.  I've never had a job like that, everywhere I've worked
the business area, corporate communications, or marketing decide what the
look and feel of each page are and, many times, even though we do our best
to try and funnel them in the right direction, each page has a slightly
different look and feel.  The new Struts tags actually make my job harder,
not easier.

The other criticism is that we attempted to use Acegi, since the rest of our
stack is Struts/Spring/Resin/LDAP we thought it would be a good fit.
Unfortunately IMO it's not ready for prime time, especially it's LDAP
support.  It probably does a good job if you're using SQL and can take their
schema and run with it, but we found it a mess trying to fit into our
corporate LDAP.  I think I'd wait another couple of revisions before trying
that one again.

But all in all, I would have to say that Struts 2 is an absolutely first
rate, ready for prime time, success!!!
  (*Chris*)

On 6/26/07, Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Usually, ready for primetime is used in connection with code quality,
> and I don't think we have a problem there :)
>
> Most of your post speaks to a having a lockstep set of implementation
> practices, that say "do it this way and don't deviate". Struts on
> Rails, so to speak. No, we don't have that, and it's unlikely that we
> ever will. The nature of the ASF beast is that we have many people
> from many different teams working on the codebase, and so it ends up
> representing many points of view.
>
> In terms of a stack, the most popular is
> Struts/Apache/Spring/Hibernate, or SASH.
>
> * http://sourcelabs.com/?page=software&sub=sash
>
> We've have talked about creating a single-stack Struts distribution
> that would bundle these sorts of thing together, but no one seems to
> have the time.
>
> As for timetables, the best bet is to focus on what's available now,
> since there's no telling when anything will ship or be tagged GA.
> We're all volunteers, and our time ebbs and flows.
>
> -Ted.
>
> On 6/26/07, stanlick@gmail.com <st...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >  ***  Please don't blast me for asking.  I'm simply looking for educated
> and
> > objective feedback ***
> >
> > Is your company using Struts2?  We are starting a Proof of Concept this
> week
> > and I honestly don't even know where to begin!  I have read so many
> > different viewpoints about S2 that I can't tell whether I'm coming or
> > going.  What interfaces to implement?  What companion frameworks to
> > leverage?  What interceptor stacks to use?  What about the choice of UI
> > toolkits?  I read last night how the ajax support was being extracted
> from
> > S2 and made a plug-in.  I realize these are not easy questions, but I am
> > leading a Struts 2 subcommittee and I am being asked for recommendations
> and
> > timetables.  Do you think S2 is ready for prime time?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Scott
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>

Re: Is S2 Ready for Prime Time?

[Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>]

Usually, ready for primetime is used in connection with code quality,
and I don't think we have a problem there :)

Most of your post speaks to a having a lockstep set of implementation
practices, that say "do it this way and don't deviate". Struts on
Rails, so to speak. No, we don't have that, and it's unlikely that we
ever will. The nature of the ASF beast is that we have many people
from many different teams working on the codebase, and so it ends up
representing many points of view.

In terms of a stack, the most popular is
Struts/Apache/Spring/Hibernate, or SASH.

 * http://sourcelabs.com/?page=software&sub=sash

We've have talked about creating a single-stack Struts distribution
that would bundle these sorts of thing together, but no one seems to
have the time.

As for timetables, the best bet is to focus on what's available now,
since there's no telling when anything will ship or be tagged GA.
We're all volunteers, and our time ebbs and flows.

-Ted.

On 6/26/07, stanlick@gmail.com <st...@gmail.com> wrote:
>  ***  Please don't blast me for asking.  I'm simply looking for educated and
> objective feedback ***
>
> Is your company using Struts2?  We are starting a Proof of Concept this week
> and I honestly don't even know where to begin!  I have read so many
> different viewpoints about S2 that I can't tell whether I'm coming or
> going.  What interfaces to implement?  What companion frameworks to
> leverage?  What interceptor stacks to use?  What about the choice of UI
> toolkits?  I read last night how the ajax support was being extracted from
> S2 and made a plug-in.  I realize these are not easy questions, but I am
> leading a Struts 2 subcommittee and I am being asked for recommendations and
> timetables.  Do you think S2 is ready for prime time?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott

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Re: Is S2 Ready for Prime Time?

[Dave Newton <ne...@yahoo.com>]

--- stanlick@gmail.com wrote:
> Is your company using Struts2?

Yes (multiple companies), although at least one may be
switching to JRoR.

> We are starting a Proof of Concept this week
> and I honestly don't even know where to begin!

In terms of what?

> What interfaces to implement?

So far I generally extend ActionSupport (or an
app-specific superclass) and will implement
Preparable, ModelDriven (or ScopedModelDriven),
SessionAware, and a few others much less frequently,
on an as-needed basis.

> What companion frameworks to leverage?

Like what? I use Hibernate (for now) and Spring,
that's about it for the most common stuff.

> What interceptor stacks to use?

So far I just use the defaultStack plus a couple of
custom interceptors.

> What about the choice of UI toolkits?

App- and company-specific; some don't use any.

> I read last night how the ajax support was being 
> extracted from S2 and made a plug-in.

Yeah, that's been an on-going project for some time, I
believe. That's for 2.1, and I think it'll be a good
thing (particularly since I'm much more familiar with
Prototype and would prefer to use it (I think)).

> Do you think S2 is ready for prime time?

Sure. That doesn't mean there aren't some oddities, or
that it's the best for all environments or projects,
but that's pretty much true for any framework.

The questions you asked are pretty vague; the answers
will depend a lot on a specific project, company,
culture, developers, etc.

d.



       
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