Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Owen Rubel <or...@gmail.com>]

Would be more than happy to contribute to open collective. The openness is
vital. There have been too many decisions that have been made that have
closed off the community entirely to the detriment of projects.

OCI itself does not realize that gated communities like Slack are not
searchable, can have their content removed and censored on developers whims
(and have) and the moderators do not follow their own guidelines.

Of note, I have sent suggestion and talked to github 'sponsors' team about
having a credit card (like prime) so that points can be added as
contributions to open source projects. Its as simple as 1% of all purchases
going to your favorite open source project. This would be hugely beneficial.

The second thing I would suggest: stop building binaries for free. Remember
MAKE files? Charge people $1-2 through the sponsor program for prebuilt
binaries but ALWAYS provide source code and MAKE instructions for free.
Only hardcore people (or people who really need to build from source) won't
pay for the binary. You can even make this a sliding scale based on region;
people in Somalia may not have that dollar so it can easily be waved.

Always charge for convenience: people will pay even a minimum for
convenience.

There are a ton of ways to get support and build out a support program for
even a small team.

Owen Rubel
orubel@gmail.com


On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 7:59 PM Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au> wrote:

> Some points:
>
> (1) Since we don't use the "groovy/groovy-core" repo any longer, I don't
> think that is the correct one to use but rather "apache/groovy". Also,
> while the Android Groovy Gradle plugin is no doubt a worthy recipient of
> additional funds, I would be inclined to keep it simple and focus on core
> Groovy for now. We can create additional collectives for other Gradle/IDE
> plugins if this one proves successful.
> (2) According to official Apache policy, the ASF doesn't accept "cash for
> code", so this would need to be a community-driven effort rather than an
> official Apache organised activity. The wording could say "Friends of
> Groovy", or "All Things Groovy" (to mimic the facebook group) or "Gr8
> Technologies" rather than "Apache Groovy project" or similar. We can ask
> for clarification from Apache marketing/legal but probably easiest if we
> have something to show them and ask what might need to be changed.
> (3) Having stated (2), it is still the project's responsibility to protect
> the Groovy trademark and Apache/Groovy "brands". I suspect, we (as the
> Apache project) would need to maintain oversight of the collective to make
> sure of this. As far as I know this is slightly uncharted territory. I
> would propose to include some proposal in the collective wording along the
> lines of "there will always be someone from the Apache Groovy Project
> actively involved in the collective". We can run this by the Apache board
> and adapt if needed.
> (4) While sponsorship is below what we'd like and below what it has been
> at some previous points in Groovy life, it isn't 0. We have several
> existing sponsors, e.g. OCI. The wording about the collective should take
> that into consideration. Perhaps some wording along the lines of "this is
> to augment any direct sponsorships from individual companies".
>
> Cheers, Paul.
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 12:56 PM 孙 岚 <re...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>       As we all know, Groovy is lack of sponsorship and slows down its
>> steps since Pivotal stopped sponsoring in 2014. Groovy needs more
>> resources to complete big features and fix hard issues, e.g. MOP2,
>> async/await, Refining generics of STC, Supporting Java11+ fully without
>> warnings, etc.
>>
>>       I propose to create open collective for Groovy programming
>> language, which can help Groovy Community to collect money to sponsor
>> developing Groovy. Even if the collected money is very few every year, something
>> is better than nothing!
>>
>>       Here are 2 steps to create open collective for Groovy(as the
>> following snapshots show).  "*OSC will assist in managing the funds of
>> the Fund*; it will collect the income and will pay and disburse the net
>> income and principal for purposes of the Project as specifically set forth
>> in the Protocols."(SEE the details in attachment 1)
>>
>>       As *groovy/groovy-core* is not my personal project, so I am
>> requesting permission from you before I create open collective. To be
>> frank, I am not sure whether it conforms to the Apache policy, so I send
>> the email as a *Groovy enthusiast*(not a Apache committer) via my own
>> hotmail(not the apache mail). I wish we could create open collective for *Groovy
>> programming language* in the name of *Groovy Community*.
>>
>>       FYI, many open source projects have created open collective, e.g.
>> 1,  babel: https://opencollective.com/babel
>> 2,  asciidoctor: https://opencollective.com/asciidoctor
>> 3,  jhipster: https://opencollective.com/generator-jhipster
>> 4,  vuejs: https://opencollective.com/vuejs
>> 5,  mochajs: https://opencollective.com/mochajs
>>
>>       Any thoughts?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel.Sun
>>
>> *Steps to create open collective for Groovy*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> (*Terms & Conditions* details can be found in the attachments of this
>> email)
>>
>>

Re: Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Thulsi D Krishnan <kt...@in.ibm.com>]

Hi,

Greetings. These are gems of suggestions - i think the community can help 
the projects in ways indicated .I used to recall JBoss folks used to 
charge some smaller /cook book cost for in-depth manuals.

Thanks a lot
----------------------------------------------
K.Thulsi Doss
Test Architect MFD & SIA
Cell :9880637180
E-Mail;kthulsidoss@in.ibm.com

----------------------------------------------







From:   Owen Rubel <or...@gmail.com>
To:     users@groovy.apache.org, Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au>
Date:   07/10/2019 09:57 AM
Subject:        [EXTERNAL] Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective 
for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community



Would be more than happy to contribute to open collective. The openness is 
vital. There have been too many decisions that have been made that have 
closed off the community entirely to the detriment of projects.

OCI itself does not realize that gated communities like Slack are not 
searchable, can have their content removed and censored on developers 
whims (and have) and the moderators do not follow their own guidelines.

Of note, I have sent suggestion and talked to github 'sponsors' team about 
having a credit card (like prime) so that points can be added as 
contributions to open source projects. Its as simple as 1% of all 
purchases going to your favorite open source project. This would be hugely 
beneficial.

The second thing I would suggest: stop building binaries for free. 
Remember MAKE files? Charge people $1-2 through the sponsor program for 
prebuilt binaries but ALWAYS provide source code and MAKE instructions for 
free. Only hardcore people (or people who really need to build from 
source) won't pay for the binary. You can even make this a sliding scale 
based on region; people in Somalia may not have that dollar so it can 
easily be waved.

Always charge for convenience: people will pay even a minimum for 
convenience.

There are a ton of ways to get support and build out a support program for 
even a small team.

Owen Rubel
orubel@gmail.com


On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 7:59 PM Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au> wrote:
Some points:

(1) Since we don't use the "groovy/groovy-core" repo any longer, I don't 
think that is the correct one to use but rather "apache/groovy". Also, 
while the Android Groovy Gradle plugin is no doubt a worthy recipient of 
additional funds, I would be inclined to keep it simple and focus on core 
Groovy for now. We can create additional collectives for other Gradle/IDE 
plugins if this one proves successful.
(2) According to official Apache policy, the ASF doesn't accept "cash for 
code", so this would need to be a community-driven effort rather than an 
official Apache organised activity. The wording could say "Friends of 
Groovy", or "All Things Groovy" (to mimic the facebook group) or "Gr8 
Technologies" rather than "Apache Groovy project" or similar. We can ask 
for clarification from Apache marketing/legal but probably easiest if we 
have something to show them and ask what might need to be changed.
(3) Having stated (2), it is still the project's responsibility to protect 
the Groovy trademark and Apache/Groovy "brands". I suspect, we (as the 
Apache project) would need to maintain oversight of the collective to make 
sure of this. As far as I know this is slightly uncharted territory. I 
would propose to include some proposal in the collective wording along the 
lines of "there will always be someone from the Apache Groovy Project 
actively involved in the collective". We can run this by the Apache board 
and adapt if needed.
(4) While sponsorship is below what we'd like and below what it has been 
at some previous points in Groovy life, it isn't 0. We have several 
existing sponsors, e.g. OCI. The wording about the collective should take 
that into consideration. Perhaps some wording along the lines of "this is 
to augment any direct sponsorships from individual companies".

Cheers, Paul.


On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 12:56 PM 孙 岚 <re...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,

      As we all know, Groovy is lack of sponsorship and slows down its 
steps since Pivotal stopped sponsoring in 2014. Groovy needs more 
resources to complete big features and fix hard issues, e.g. MOP2, 
async/await, Refining generics of STC, Supporting Java11+ fully without 
warnings, etc. 

      I propose to create open collective for Groovy programming language, 
which can help Groovy Community to collect money to sponsor developing 
Groovy. Even if the collected money is very few every year, something is 
better than nothing! 

      Here are 2 steps to create open collective for Groovy(as the 
following snapshots show).  "OSC will assist in managing the funds of the 
Fund; it will collect the income and will pay and disburse the net income 
and principal for purposes of the Project as specifically set forth in the 
Protocols."(SEE the details in attachment 1) 

      As groovy/groovy-core is not my personal project, so I am requesting 
permission from you before I create open collective. To be frank, I am not 
sure whether it conforms to the Apache policy, so I send the email as a 
Groovy enthusiast(not a Apache committer) via my own hotmail(not the 
apache mail). I wish we could create open collective for Groovy 
programming language in the name of Groovy Community.

      FYI, many open source projects have created open collective, e.g.
1,  babel: https://opencollective.com/babel
2,  asciidoctor: https://opencollective.com/asciidoctor
3,  jhipster: https://opencollective.com/generator-jhipster
4,  vuejs: https://opencollective.com/vuejs
5,  mochajs: https://opencollective.com/mochajs

      Any thoughts?

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun

Steps to create open collective for Groovy

       



(Terms & Conditions details can be found in the attachments of this email)