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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> on 2019/11/26 10:12:31 UTC
[DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Greetings folks:
Here is proposal for NuttX (an IOT OS project) which I look forward to
hearing feedback. The proposal is also on the wiki[1].
Please note that this project is looking for mentors, so for IPMCs, please
volunteer if you are interested to offer help here. Thx!
NuttX
=Abstract=
NuttX is a mature, real-time embedded operating system (RTOS). It has wide
usage in IoT projects, control systems, robotics, drones, and many other
systems. Unique properties of NuttX are its strict adherence to standards
and its scalability. NuttX follows the Unix standards as defined
by OpenGroup.org (POSIX, ANSI, and others). This allows for a high degree
of portability. Scalability is supported through a configuration system
that allows NuttX to run on the smallest embedded platforms and through
high end single board computers.
=Proposal=
NuttX was released under a BSD 3-Clause license on February 17, 2007. From
that time until now it has been managed by a single person, Gregory Nutt.
The user base of NuttX has grown to probably thousands of projects and
perhaps a hundred active developments at any time. The code base has grown
to around 1.5 million lines of code (according to OpenHub.com).
NuttX has benefited from this single person management because this has
resulted in a consistent architecture and controlled growth. But now it is
time to open this project to the participation of others because this
consistent architecture assures solid future growth, and because the
magnitude of effort required to support the RTOS exceeds the capability of
a single person, but also because users of NuttX require a stable road map
going forward that does not depend on a single person.
For these reasons, I propose that NuttX enter the Apache Incubator as a
first step in opening the project to wider participation.
=Initial Goals=
The initial goal will be to move the existing BSD code base to Apache and
integrate with the Apache development process and infrastructure. A primary
goal of incubation will be to grow and diversify the NuttX community. We
will convert that code base to the Apache license during incubation.
=Current Status=
As previously mentioned, NuttX is a mature, stable product in wide use in
embedded products.
==Meritocracy==
We value meritocracy and we understand that it is the basis for an open
community that encourages multiple companies and individuals to contribute
and be invested in the project’s future. We will encourage and monitor
participation and make sure to extend privileges and responsibilities to
all contributors.
Being a mature project, NuttX already has an extensive user base with many
people who understand the software, who have committed hundreds of changes,
and are happy to participate in the project. I believe that with a little
guidance and formalization, a PMC and a large group of experienced
committers can quickly be established.
==Community==
NuttX has a large, active community. Communication is via a Google group
at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/nuttx where there are 395
members as of this writing. Code is currently maintained
at Bitbucket.org at https://bitbucket.org/nuttx/. Other communications are
through Bitbucket issues and also via Slack for focused, interactive
discussions.
Keeping up with the communications, requests for help, issues, and
contributions is more than a full time job at this time.
==Core Developers==
NuttX was initially developed by Gregory Nutt, released as an open source
project on February 17, 2007, and is still under active development. There
are several dozen, active, frequent contributors involved with the project.
The core OS can be considered finished at this point, but development
continues in specialized areas of networking, IoT, cryptography, tools, and
other more specialized functions.
=Alignment=
NuttX is an original development with some small percentage of ported
code. It stands alone depends on no other projects.
=Known Risks=
==Orphaned Products==
We are committed to the future development of NuttX and understand that
graduation to a TLP, while preferable, is not the only positive outcome of
incubation.
Should the NuttX project be accepted by the Incubator, the prospective PPMC
would be willing to agree to a target incubation period of 2 years or less,
knowing that every Incubator project incurs a certain cost in terms of ASF
infrastructure and volunteer time.
==Inexperience with Open Source==
None of the initial committers are Apache members and we will need some
help in learning the Apache Way.
==Salaried Developers==
It is expected that NuttX development will occur primarily on volunteer
time, after hours. One initial committer will be paid by Xiaomi. All
initial committers are all equally passionate about the project.
=Relationships with Other Apache Products=
There is no relationship between NuttX and any other Apache Products.
There were discussions with the Mynewt project in the past concerning use
of some Mynewt IoT components within NuttX. There is some possibility that
those conversations could continue once NuttX has Apache licensing as well.
=Required Resources=
==Mailing lists==
* dev@nuttx.incubator.apache.org
* commits@nuttx.incubator.apache.org
* private@nuttx.incubator.apache.org
The podling may also create a user mailing list, if needed.
==Source Control and Issue Tracking==
NuttX current uses the Bitbucket infrastructure for development. It is
likely that the NuttX podling would switch to GitHub and would use Apache’s
gitbox integration to sync between GitHub and Apache infrastructure. The
podling would use GitHub issues and pull requests for community engagement.
Current Resources
* Initial source: https://bitbucket.org/nuttx/
* Wiki Page: http://www.nuttx.org/
* Google Group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/nuttx
=Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan=
The NuttX source code in Bitbucket is currently licensed under the BSD
3-clause license and the most copyrights are assigned to the author,
Gregory Nutt. If NuttX becomes an Incubator project at the ASF, the project
will transfer the source code and trademark ownership to the Apache
Software Foundation via a Software Grant Agreement.
=External Dependencies=
None. A small number of files within NuttX follow slightly different, but
compatible licenses including BSD 2- and 4-clause, MIT, ISC, and Public
Domain.
=Cryptography=
NuttX has negligible cryptographic capabilities at present. This is,
however, and are where there will be extensive future growth.
=Initial Committers=
* Gregory Nutt gnutt@nuttx.org
* Xiao Xiang xiaoxiang@xiaomi.com
* Anthony Merlino anthony@vergeaero.com
=Sponsors=
* Champion and mentor: Junping Du junping_du@apache.org
* Mentor: TBD
* Mentor: TBD
=Sponsoring Entity=
* The Apache Incubator
[1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/NuttXProposal
Thanks,
Junping
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Duo Zhang <zh...@apache.org>.
Seems the link to the openhub statistics have been cleaned in the email...
https://www.openhub.net/p/nuttx
In a Nutshell, NuttX...
...
has had 39,978 commits made by 344 contributors
representing 2,003,984 lines of code
...
is mostly written in C
with a very well-commented source code
...
has a well established, mature codebase
maintained by a very large development team
with stable Y-O-Y commits
...
took an estimated 581 years of effort (COCOMO model)
starting with its first commit in February, 2007
ending with its most recent commit about 1 month ago
You can see that NuttX has already been a very 'sucessful' project, and it
already has a large number of contributors.
So I think here, the most important thing is to help maintaining the
project with the apache way. And technically, another thing is to deal with
the license change, as NuttX is already a very big project and has a very
large code base.
Thanks.
俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> 于2019年11月26日周二 下午6:10写道：
> Greetings folks:
>
>
> Here is proposal for NuttX (an IOT OS project) which I look forward to
> hearing feedback. The proposal is also on the wiki[1].
>
> Please note that this project is looking for mentors, so for IPMCs, please
> volunteer if you are interested to offer help here. Thx!
>
>
> NuttX
>
>
> =Abstract=
>
> NuttX is a mature, real-time embedded operating system (RTOS). It has wide
> usage in IoT projects, control systems, robotics, drones, and many other
> systems. Unique properties of NuttX are its strict adherence to standards
> and its scalability. NuttX follows the Unix standards as defined
> by OpenGroup.org (POSIX, ANSI, and others). This allows for a high degree
> of portability. Scalability is supported through a configuration system
> that allows NuttX to run on the smallest embedded platforms and through
> high end single board computers.
>
>
> =Proposal=
>
> NuttX was released under a BSD 3-Clause license on February 17, 2007. From
> that time until now it has been managed by a single person, Gregory Nutt.
> The user base of NuttX has grown to probably thousands of projects and
> perhaps a hundred active developments at any time. The code base has grown
> to around 1.5 million lines of code (according to OpenHub.com).
>
> NuttX has benefited from this single person management because this has
> resulted in a consistent architecture and controlled growth. But now it is
> time to open this project to the participation of others because this
> consistent architecture assures solid future growth, and because the
> magnitude of effort required to support the RTOS exceeds the capability of
> a single person, but also because users of NuttX require a stable road map
> going forward that does not depend on a single person.
>
> For these reasons, I propose that NuttX enter the Apache Incubator as a
> first step in opening the project to wider participation.
>
>
> =Initial Goals=
>
> The initial goal will be to move the existing BSD code base to Apache and
> integrate with the Apache development process and infrastructure. A primary
> goal of incubation will be to grow and diversify the NuttX community. We
> will convert that code base to the Apache license during incubation.
>
>
> =Current Status=
>
> As previously mentioned, NuttX is a mature, stable product in wide use in
> embedded products.
>
>
> ==Meritocracy==
>
> We value meritocracy and we understand that it is the basis for an open
> community that encourages multiple companies and individuals to contribute
> and be invested in the project’s future. We will encourage and monitor
> participation and make sure to extend privileges and responsibilities to
> all contributors.
>
> Being a mature project, NuttX already has an extensive user base with many
> people who understand the software, who have committed hundreds of changes,
> and are happy to participate in the project. I believe that with a little
> guidance and formalization, a PMC and a large group of experienced
> committers can quickly be established.
>
>
> ==Community==
>
> NuttX has a large, active community. Communication is via a Google group
> at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/nuttx where there are 395
> members as of this writing. Code is currently maintained
> at Bitbucket.org at https://bitbucket.org/nuttx/. Other communications
> are
> through Bitbucket issues and also via Slack for focused, interactive
> discussions.
>
> Keeping up with the communications, requests for help, issues, and
> contributions is more than a full time job at this time.
>
>
> ==Core Developers==
>
> NuttX was initially developed by Gregory Nutt, released as an open source
> project on February 17, 2007, and is still under active development. There
> are several dozen, active, frequent contributors involved with the project.
> The core OS can be considered finished at this point, but development
> continues in specialized areas of networking, IoT, cryptography, tools, and
> other more specialized functions.
>
>
> =Alignment=
>
> NuttX is an original development with some small percentage of ported
> code. It stands alone depends on no other projects.
>
>
> =Known Risks=
>
> ==Orphaned Products==
>
> We are committed to the future development of NuttX and understand that
> graduation to a TLP, while preferable, is not the only positive outcome of
> incubation.
>
> Should the NuttX project be accepted by the Incubator, the prospective PPMC
> would be willing to agree to a target incubation period of 2 years or less,
> knowing that every Incubator project incurs a certain cost in terms of ASF
> infrastructure and volunteer time.
>
>
> ==Inexperience with Open Source==
>
> None of the initial committers are Apache members and we will need some
> help in learning the Apache Way.
>
>
> ==Salaried Developers==
>
> It is expected that NuttX development will occur primarily on volunteer
> time, after hours. One initial committer will be paid by Xiaomi. All
> initial committers are all equally passionate about the project.
>
>
> =Relationships with Other Apache Products=
>
> There is no relationship between NuttX and any other Apache Products.
> There were discussions with the Mynewt project in the past concerning use
> of some Mynewt IoT components within NuttX. There is some possibility that
> those conversations could continue once NuttX has Apache licensing as well.
>
>
> =Required Resources=
>
> ==Mailing lists==
>
> * dev@nuttx.incubator.apache.org
>
> * commits@nuttx.incubator.apache.org
>
> * private@nuttx.incubator.apache.org
>
> The podling may also create a user mailing list, if needed.
>
>
> ==Source Control and Issue Tracking==
>
> NuttX current uses the Bitbucket infrastructure for development. It is
> likely that the NuttX podling would switch to GitHub and would use Apache’s
> gitbox integration to sync between GitHub and Apache infrastructure. The
> podling would use GitHub issues and pull requests for community engagement.
>
> Current Resources
>
> * Initial source: https://bitbucket.org/nuttx/
>
> * Wiki Page: http://www.nuttx.org/
>
> * Google Group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/nuttx
>
>
> =Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan=
>
> The NuttX source code in Bitbucket is currently licensed under the BSD
> 3-clause license and the most copyrights are assigned to the author,
> Gregory Nutt. If NuttX becomes an Incubator project at the ASF, the project
> will transfer the source code and trademark ownership to the Apache
> Software Foundation via a Software Grant Agreement.
>
>
> =External Dependencies=
>
> None. A small number of files within NuttX follow slightly different, but
> compatible licenses including BSD 2- and 4-clause, MIT, ISC, and Public
> Domain.
>
>
> =Cryptography=
>
> NuttX has negligible cryptographic capabilities at present. This is,
> however, and are where there will be extensive future growth.
>
>
> =Initial Committers=
>
> * Gregory Nutt gnutt@nuttx.org
>
> * Xiao Xiang xiaoxiang@xiaomi.com
>
> * Anthony Merlino anthony@vergeaero.com
>
>
> =Sponsors=
>
> * Champion and mentor: Junping Du junping_du@apache.org
>
> * Mentor: TBD
>
> * Mentor: TBD
>
>
> =Sponsoring Entity=
>
> * The Apache Incubator
>
>
>
>
>
> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/NuttXProposal
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Junping
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>.
Hi Justin and Incubator
I could help the project as a mentor, if this could ease your concern.
This whole IoT OS is unfamiliar to me, I will keep as best as I could to
follow up the project :)
Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>于2019年12月3日 周二下午10:00写道：
> Hi,
>
> I still think another more experienced mentor is needed. I’m thankful for
> the two others who have stepped forward to help out, and I’m sure they will
> do a good job, but it is a big commitment and neither are currently mentors
> on other projects (apologies in advance if I’ve got that wrong) I'm have
> the reverse issue in that currently mentoring 4 other projects and I’m also
> the VP of the Incubator which takes up a lot of my time. So I may not be
> available 100% off the time and would prefer there’s another mentor with a
> few podlings under their belts to help out.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
> --
Sheng Wu 吴晟
Apache SkyWalking
Apache Incubator
Apache ShardingSphere, ECharts, DolphinScheduler podlings
Zipkin
Twitter, wusheng1108
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org>.
Agree. 4 Mentors could be good enough for now. We can add more if needed
during incubating.
Personally, I dislike to differentiate which IPMCs are experienced or not -
this is not Apache, IMO.
I will call vote in a minute.
Thanks,
Junping
Flavio Junqueira <fp...@apache.org> 于2019年12月3日周二 下午11:27写道：
> To Justin's point, there are four listed mentors. Even if the listed
> mentors either haven't been active or do not have tons of extra time, I'd
> think that among four we should be able to figure it out. If anyone else
> steps up, then great, but otherwise, we should not block the vote on it.
>
> -Flavio
>
> > On 3 Dec 2019, at 15:38, 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Alan,
> > Yes. The mentor of incubator project here is to guide the project to
> > follow Apache way but not the knowledge on specific project.
> > Thanks for offering the help here though and I just added you as
> > initial committer per Greg's suggestions.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Junping
> >
> > Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月3日周二 下午10:31写道：
> >
> >>
> >>> Sorry Justin,
> >>>
> >>> Greg explained me that only member of the IPMC can be a mentor.
> >> But you are certainly welcome to be added as an initial committer.
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Flavio Junqueira <fp...@apache.org>.
To Justin's point, there are four listed mentors. Even if the listed mentors either haven't been active or do not have tons of extra time, I'd think that among four we should be able to figure it out. If anyone else steps up, then great, but otherwise, we should not block the vote on it.
-Flavio
> On 3 Dec 2019, at 15:38, 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Alan,
> Yes. The mentor of incubator project here is to guide the project to
> follow Apache way but not the knowledge on specific project.
> Thanks for offering the help here though and I just added you as
> initial committer per Greg's suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Junping
>
> Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月3日周二 下午10:31写道：
>
>>
>>> Sorry Justin,
>>>
>>> Greg explained me that only member of the IPMC can be a mentor.
>> But you are certainly welcome to be added as an initial committer.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Nathan Hartman <ha...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 7:55 PM Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Another person has requested to be an initial committer. If possible,
> please add him to the proposal as well: Nathan Hartman
> <ha...@gmail.com>
>
> Greg
Thank you, Greg.
I've subscribed to this mailing list and I'll await further instructions...
FWIW I already have my ICLA on file (I'm a member of the Apache Subversion
PMC) so that should be one less step. :-)
Let me know of anything I can do to help...
Cheers,
Nathan Hartman
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org>.
Sure. I just added. Now the proposal is final for vote.
Thanks,
Junping
Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月4日周三 上午8:55写道：
>
> >
> >> Thanks for offering the help here though and I just added you as
> >> initial committer per Greg's suggestions.
> >
> > I have a request to add Abdelatif GUETTOUCHE
> > <ab...@gmail.com> as an initial committer as well. I
> > posted the current state of the proposal in the NuttX forum and so
> > there may be additional volunteers. I appreciate that we do have to
> > cut this off at some point and I also appreciate your patience with
> > the volatility.
> >
> Another person has requested to be an initial committer. If possible,
> please add him to the proposal as well: Nathan Hartman
> <ha...@gmail.com>
>
> Greg
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com>.
>
>> Thanks for offering the help here though and I just added you as
>> initial committer per Greg's suggestions.
>
> I have a request to add Abdelatif GUETTOUCHE
> <ab...@gmail.com> as an initial committer as well. I
> posted the current state of the proposal in the NuttX forum and so
> there may be additional volunteers. I appreciate that we do have to
> cut this off at some point and I also appreciate your patience with
> the volatility.
>
Another person has requested to be an initial committer. If possible,
please add him to the proposal as well: Nathan Hartman
<ha...@gmail.com>
Greg
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org>.
Thanks for replying this for me, Bertrand. That's exactly what I want to
say as well - current proposal is final unless it get veto for some reason.
We can always add more committers/PPMC later by PPMC vote (and notify IPMC
before invitation).
Thanks,
Junping
Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch> 于2019年12月4日周三 下午8:55写道：
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 7:45 PM Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > ...I have a request to add Abdelatif GUETTOUCHE
> > <ab...@gmail.com> as an initial committer as well..
>
> The proposal shouldn't be modified once the vote starts, but note that
> it's easy to add committers once the podling is established. Being an
> initial committer or not doesn't make a real difference.
>
> And that's a good exercise in terms of learning how Apache works ;-)
>
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Hi,
On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 7:45 PM Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...I have a request to add Abdelatif GUETTOUCHE
> <ab...@gmail.com> as an initial committer as well..
The proposal shouldn't be modified once the vote starts, but note that
it's easy to add committers once the podling is established. Being an
initial committer or not doesn't make a real difference.
And that's a good exercise in terms of learning how Apache works ;-)
-Bertrand
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com>.
Hi, Junping
> Thanks for offering the help here though and I just added you as
> initial committer per Greg's suggestions.
I have a request to add Abdelatif GUETTOUCHE
<ab...@gmail.com> as an initial committer as well. I
posted the current state of the proposal in the NuttX forum and so there
may be additional volunteers. I appreciate that we do have to cut this
off at some point and I also appreciate your patience with the volatility.
Greg
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org>.
Hi Alan,
Yes. The mentor of incubator project here is to guide the project to
follow Apache way but not the knowledge on specific project.
Thanks for offering the help here though and I just added you as
initial committer per Greg's suggestions.
Thanks,
Junping
Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月3日周二 下午10:31写道：
>
> > Sorry Justin,
> >
> > Greg explained me that only member of the IPMC can be a mentor.
> But you are certainly welcome to be added as an initial committer.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com>.
> Sorry Justin,
>
> Greg explained me that only member of the IPMC can be a mentor.
But you are certainly welcome to be added as an initial committer.
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Alan Carvalho de Assis <ac...@gmail.com>.
Sorry Justin,
Greg explained me that only member of the IPMC can be a mentor.
BR,
Alan
On 12/3/19, Alan Carvalho de Assis <ac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Justin,
>
> I want to offer me as mentor as well. I'm a NuttX contributor since I
> discovered the project in 2010 and actively contributing
> drivers/porting since 2013. Also I change a YouTube channel called
> NuttX Channel to help beginner to get started.
>
> I think there are developers with more skills than me, I'm BCC they
> here and I hope they subscribe to this mailing list and also offer as
> mentor.
>
> BR,
>
> Alan
>
> On 12/3/19, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I still think another more experienced mentor is needed. I’m thankful for
>> the two others who have stepped forward to help out, and I’m sure they
>> will
>> do a good job, but it is a big commitment and neither are currently
>> mentors
>> on other projects (apologies in advance if I’ve got that wrong) I'm have
>> the
>> reverse issue in that currently mentoring 4 other projects and I’m also
>> the
>> VP of the Incubator which takes up a lot of my time. So I may not be
>> available 100% off the time and would prefer there’s another mentor with
>> a
>> few podlings under their belts to help out.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Justin
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by "David S. Alessio" <da...@gmail.com>.
Alan, Thanks for the BCC.
Justin, I’m interested in learning more. What are you/they trying to accomplish with NuttX?
Regards,
David S. Alessio
> On Dec 3, 2019, at 6:14 AM, Alan Carvalho de Assis <ac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Justin,
>
> I want to offer me as mentor as well. I'm a NuttX contributor since I
> discovered the project in 2010 and actively contributing
> drivers/porting since 2013. Also I change a YouTube channel called
> NuttX Channel to help beginner to get started.
>
> I think there are developers with more skills than me, I'm BCC they
> here and I hope they subscribe to this mailing list and also offer as
> mentor.
>
> BR,
>
> Alan
>
> On 12/3/19, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I still think another more experienced mentor is needed. I’m thankful for
>> the two others who have stepped forward to help out, and I’m sure they will
>> do a good job, but it is a big commitment and neither are currently mentors
>> on other projects (apologies in advance if I’ve got that wrong) I'm have the
>> reverse issue in that currently mentoring 4 other projects and I’m also the
>> VP of the Incubator which takes up a lot of my time. So I may not be
>> available 100% off the time and would prefer there’s another mentor with a
>> few podlings under their belts to help out.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Justin
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Alan Carvalho de Assis <ac...@gmail.com>.
Hi Junping,
On 12/4/19, 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi Ivan,
> Thanks for watching the list and standing up with your voice. I have
> added Alan as initial committer (PPMC) of the project, but for mentor of
> the project, it need to be Apache Incubator PMC. The reason is the "mentor"
> role of incubator project here is for leading the project to follow Apache
> way but not into technical details too much. I believe Alan is helpful and
> brilliant and we wish he continue to contribute to NuttX project as PPMC.
>
Thank you for these kind words. I want to still helping the NuttX
project, doesn't matter which organization is driving it.
Also I saw Masayuki's email asking to be an initial committer.
Masayuki is a great contributor and the first person to present NuttX
to a broader audience at the Linux Foundation's Embedded Linux
Conference. He is the engineer who selected NuttX to be used on Sony
products.
BR,
Alan
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Embedded Systems <iv...@gmail.com>.
Got it , thank you very much!
Best regards,
Ivan Ucherdzhiev
On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 12:05 PM 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
> You can find more details about Mentor role here:
> https://incubator.apache.org/guides/mentor.html.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Junping
>
> Embedded Systems <iv...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月4日周三 下午5:55写道：
>
> > Hello
> >
> > Thank you very much for your response. Can you please give me little bit
> > more information about "mentor" role and how it affects the decisions
> made
> > for the project it self.
> >
> > Thank you in advance!
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Ivan Ucherdzhiev
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:48 AM 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Ivan,
> > > Thanks for watching the list and standing up with your voice. I
> have
> > > added Alan as initial committer (PPMC) of the project, but for mentor
> of
> > > the project, it need to be Apache Incubator PMC. The reason is the
> > "mentor"
> > > role of incubator project here is for leading the project to follow
> > Apache
> > > way but not into technical details too much. I believe Alan is helpful
> > and
> > > brilliant and we wish he continue to contribute to NuttX project as
> PPMC.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Junping
> > >
> > > Embedded Systems <iv...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月4日周三 下午4:32写道：
> > >
> > >> Hello
> > >>
> > >> Alan is a great choice for a mentor in my opinion. He is a great and
> > >> helpful person and brilliant engineer with a lot of experience with
> > Nuttx.
> > >> He was the person which helped me a lot to get started and if my vote
> is
> > >> making any difference i definitely give it for Alan!
> > >>
> > >> Best regards,
> > >> Ivan Ucherdzhiev
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 4:14 PM Alan Carvalho de Assis <
> > acassis@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi Justin,
> > >>>
> > >>> I want to offer me as mentor as well. I'm a NuttX contributor since I
> > >>> discovered the project in 2010 and actively contributing
> > >>> drivers/porting since 2013. Also I change a YouTube channel called
> > >>> NuttX Channel to help beginner to get started.
> > >>>
> > >>> I think there are developers with more skills than me, I'm BCC they
> > >>> here and I hope they subscribe to this mailing list and also offer as
> > >>> mentor.
> > >>>
> > >>> BR,
> > >>>
> > >>> Alan
> > >>>
> > >>> On 12/3/19, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
> > >>> > Hi,
> > >>> >
> > >>> > I still think another more experienced mentor is needed. I’m
> thankful
> > >>> for
> > >>> > the two others who have stepped forward to help out, and I’m sure
> > they
> > >>> will
> > >>> > do a good job, but it is a big commitment and neither are currently
> > >>> mentors
> > >>> > on other projects (apologies in advance if I’ve got that wrong) I'm
> > >>> have the
> > >>> > reverse issue in that currently mentoring 4 other projects and I’m
> > >>> also the
> > >>> > VP of the Incubator which takes up a lot of my time. So I may not
> be
> > >>> > available 100% off the time and would prefer there’s another mentor
> > >>> with a
> > >>> > few podlings under their belts to help out.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Thanks,
> > >>> > Justin
> > >>> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > >>> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Kind regards,
> > >> Ivan Ucherdzhiev
> > >>
> > >> Team Lead @ Barin Sports
> > >> Bulgaria
> > >> skype: ipy_44
> > >> tel: +359888927760
> > >>
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Kind regards,
> > Ivan Ucherdzhiev
> >
> > Team Lead @ Barin Sports
> > Bulgaria
> > skype: ipy_44
> > tel: +359888927760
> >
>
--
Kind regards,
Ivan Ucherdzhiev
Team Lead @ Barin Sports
Bulgaria
skype: ipy_44
tel: +359888927760
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org>.
You can find more details about Mentor role here:
https://incubator.apache.org/guides/mentor.html.
Thanks,
Junping
Embedded Systems <iv...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月4日周三 下午5:55写道：
> Hello
>
> Thank you very much for your response. Can you please give me little bit
> more information about "mentor" role and how it affects the decisions made
> for the project it self.
>
> Thank you in advance!
>
> Best regards,
> Ivan Ucherdzhiev
>
> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:48 AM 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ivan,
> > Thanks for watching the list and standing up with your voice. I have
> > added Alan as initial committer (PPMC) of the project, but for mentor of
> > the project, it need to be Apache Incubator PMC. The reason is the
> "mentor"
> > role of incubator project here is for leading the project to follow
> Apache
> > way but not into technical details too much. I believe Alan is helpful
> and
> > brilliant and we wish he continue to contribute to NuttX project as PPMC.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Junping
> >
> > Embedded Systems <iv...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月4日周三 下午4:32写道：
> >
> >> Hello
> >>
> >> Alan is a great choice for a mentor in my opinion. He is a great and
> >> helpful person and brilliant engineer with a lot of experience with
> Nuttx.
> >> He was the person which helped me a lot to get started and if my vote is
> >> making any difference i definitely give it for Alan!
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Ivan Ucherdzhiev
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 4:14 PM Alan Carvalho de Assis <
> acassis@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Justin,
> >>>
> >>> I want to offer me as mentor as well. I'm a NuttX contributor since I
> >>> discovered the project in 2010 and actively contributing
> >>> drivers/porting since 2013. Also I change a YouTube channel called
> >>> NuttX Channel to help beginner to get started.
> >>>
> >>> I think there are developers with more skills than me, I'm BCC they
> >>> here and I hope they subscribe to this mailing list and also offer as
> >>> mentor.
> >>>
> >>> BR,
> >>>
> >>> Alan
> >>>
> >>> On 12/3/19, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
> >>> > Hi,
> >>> >
> >>> > I still think another more experienced mentor is needed. I’m thankful
> >>> for
> >>> > the two others who have stepped forward to help out, and I’m sure
> they
> >>> will
> >>> > do a good job, but it is a big commitment and neither are currently
> >>> mentors
> >>> > on other projects (apologies in advance if I’ve got that wrong) I'm
> >>> have the
> >>> > reverse issue in that currently mentoring 4 other projects and I’m
> >>> also the
> >>> > VP of the Incubator which takes up a lot of my time. So I may not be
> >>> > available 100% off the time and would prefer there’s another mentor
> >>> with a
> >>> > few podlings under their belts to help out.
> >>> >
> >>> > Thanks,
> >>> > Justin
> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Kind regards,
> >> Ivan Ucherdzhiev
> >>
> >> Team Lead @ Barin Sports
> >> Bulgaria
> >> skype: ipy_44
> >> tel: +359888927760
> >>
> >
>
> --
> Kind regards,
> Ivan Ucherdzhiev
>
> Team Lead @ Barin Sports
> Bulgaria
> skype: ipy_44
> tel: +359888927760
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> Thank you very much for your response. Can you please give me little bit
> more information about "mentor" role and how it affects the decisions made
> for the project it self.
Mentors are on the PMC and as such have binding votes on releases, but that is usually helpful as they are IPMC members so their votes are binding. They guide the project towards becoming a top level project and help it follow and understand the Apache Way and it’s values. They would defer any technical decisions / direction of the project to the rest of the community unless there is a conflict with those values.
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Embedded Systems <iv...@gmail.com>.
Hello
Thank you very much for your response. Can you please give me little bit
more information about "mentor" role and how it affects the decisions made
for the project it self.
Thank you in advance!
Best regards,
Ivan Ucherdzhiev
On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:48 AM 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi Ivan,
> Thanks for watching the list and standing up with your voice. I have
> added Alan as initial committer (PPMC) of the project, but for mentor of
> the project, it need to be Apache Incubator PMC. The reason is the "mentor"
> role of incubator project here is for leading the project to follow Apache
> way but not into technical details too much. I believe Alan is helpful and
> brilliant and we wish he continue to contribute to NuttX project as PPMC.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Junping
>
> Embedded Systems <iv...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月4日周三 下午4:32写道：
>
>> Hello
>>
>> Alan is a great choice for a mentor in my opinion. He is a great and
>> helpful person and brilliant engineer with a lot of experience with Nuttx.
>> He was the person which helped me a lot to get started and if my vote is
>> making any difference i definitely give it for Alan!
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Ivan Ucherdzhiev
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 4:14 PM Alan Carvalho de Assis <ac...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Justin,
>>>
>>> I want to offer me as mentor as well. I'm a NuttX contributor since I
>>> discovered the project in 2010 and actively contributing
>>> drivers/porting since 2013. Also I change a YouTube channel called
>>> NuttX Channel to help beginner to get started.
>>>
>>> I think there are developers with more skills than me, I'm BCC they
>>> here and I hope they subscribe to this mailing list and also offer as
>>> mentor.
>>>
>>> BR,
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>> On 12/3/19, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > I still think another more experienced mentor is needed. I’m thankful
>>> for
>>> > the two others who have stepped forward to help out, and I’m sure they
>>> will
>>> > do a good job, but it is a big commitment and neither are currently
>>> mentors
>>> > on other projects (apologies in advance if I’ve got that wrong) I'm
>>> have the
>>> > reverse issue in that currently mentoring 4 other projects and I’m
>>> also the
>>> > VP of the Incubator which takes up a lot of my time. So I may not be
>>> > available 100% off the time and would prefer there’s another mentor
>>> with a
>>> > few podlings under their belts to help out.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> > Justin
>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kind regards,
>> Ivan Ucherdzhiev
>>
>> Team Lead @ Barin Sports
>> Bulgaria
>> skype: ipy_44
>> tel: +359888927760
>>
>
--
Kind regards,
Ivan Ucherdzhiev
Team Lead @ Barin Sports
Bulgaria
skype: ipy_44
tel: +359888927760
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org>.
Hi Ivan,
Thanks for watching the list and standing up with your voice. I have
added Alan as initial committer (PPMC) of the project, but for mentor of
the project, it need to be Apache Incubator PMC. The reason is the "mentor"
role of incubator project here is for leading the project to follow Apache
way but not into technical details too much. I believe Alan is helpful and
brilliant and we wish he continue to contribute to NuttX project as PPMC.
Thanks,
Junping
Embedded Systems <iv...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月4日周三 下午4:32写道：
> Hello
>
> Alan is a great choice for a mentor in my opinion. He is a great and
> helpful person and brilliant engineer with a lot of experience with Nuttx.
> He was the person which helped me a lot to get started and if my vote is
> making any difference i definitely give it for Alan!
>
> Best regards,
> Ivan Ucherdzhiev
>
> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 4:14 PM Alan Carvalho de Assis <ac...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Justin,
>>
>> I want to offer me as mentor as well. I'm a NuttX contributor since I
>> discovered the project in 2010 and actively contributing
>> drivers/porting since 2013. Also I change a YouTube channel called
>> NuttX Channel to help beginner to get started.
>>
>> I think there are developers with more skills than me, I'm BCC they
>> here and I hope they subscribe to this mailing list and also offer as
>> mentor.
>>
>> BR,
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> On 12/3/19, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I still think another more experienced mentor is needed. I’m thankful
>> for
>> > the two others who have stepped forward to help out, and I’m sure they
>> will
>> > do a good job, but it is a big commitment and neither are currently
>> mentors
>> > on other projects (apologies in advance if I’ve got that wrong) I'm
>> have the
>> > reverse issue in that currently mentoring 4 other projects and I’m also
>> the
>> > VP of the Incubator which takes up a lot of my time. So I may not be
>> > available 100% off the time and would prefer there’s another mentor
>> with a
>> > few podlings under their belts to help out.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Justin
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
> --
> Kind regards,
> Ivan Ucherdzhiev
>
> Team Lead @ Barin Sports
> Bulgaria
> skype: ipy_44
> tel: +359888927760
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Embedded Systems <iv...@gmail.com>.
Hello
Alan is a great choice for a mentor in my opinion. He is a great and
helpful person and brilliant engineer with a lot of experience with Nuttx.
He was the person which helped me a lot to get started and if my vote is
making any difference i definitely give it for Alan!
Best regards,
Ivan Ucherdzhiev
On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 4:14 PM Alan Carvalho de Assis <ac...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Justin,
>
> I want to offer me as mentor as well. I'm a NuttX contributor since I
> discovered the project in 2010 and actively contributing
> drivers/porting since 2013. Also I change a YouTube channel called
> NuttX Channel to help beginner to get started.
>
> I think there are developers with more skills than me, I'm BCC they
> here and I hope they subscribe to this mailing list and also offer as
> mentor.
>
> BR,
>
> Alan
>
> On 12/3/19, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I still think another more experienced mentor is needed. I’m thankful for
> > the two others who have stepped forward to help out, and I’m sure they
> will
> > do a good job, but it is a big commitment and neither are currently
> mentors
> > on other projects (apologies in advance if I’ve got that wrong) I'm have
> the
> > reverse issue in that currently mentoring 4 other projects and I’m also
> the
> > VP of the Incubator which takes up a lot of my time. So I may not be
> > available 100% off the time and would prefer there’s another mentor with
> a
> > few podlings under their belts to help out.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
--
Kind regards,
Ivan Ucherdzhiev
Team Lead @ Barin Sports
Bulgaria
skype: ipy_44
tel: +359888927760
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by "Ishikawa, Masayuki (SHES)" <Ma...@sony.com>.
Alan,
Thanks for sharing the information.
I was busy these days for inhouse events.
I'd like to join, so could you subscribe me?
Thanks,
Masayuki Ishikawa
On 2019/12/03 23:14, "Alan Carvalho de Assis" <ac...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Justin,
I want to offer me as mentor as well. I'm a NuttX contributor since I
discovered the project in 2010 and actively contributing
drivers/porting since 2013. Also I change a YouTube channel called
NuttX Channel to help beginner to get started.
I think there are developers with more skills than me, I'm BCC they
here and I hope they subscribe to this mailing list and also offer as
mentor.
BR,
Alan
On 12/3/19, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I still think another more experienced mentor is needed. I’m thankful for
> the two others who have stepped forward to help out, and I’m sure they will
> do a good job, but it is a big commitment and neither are currently mentors
> on other projects (apologies in advance if I’ve got that wrong) I'm have the
> reverse issue in that currently mentoring 4 other projects and I’m also the
> VP of the Incubator which takes up a lot of my time. So I may not be
> available 100% off the time and would prefer there’s another mentor with a
> few podlings under their belts to help out.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Alan Carvalho de Assis <ac...@gmail.com>.
Hi Justin,
I want to offer me as mentor as well. I'm a NuttX contributor since I
discovered the project in 2010 and actively contributing
drivers/porting since 2013. Also I change a YouTube channel called
NuttX Channel to help beginner to get started.
I think there are developers with more skills than me, I'm BCC they
here and I hope they subscribe to this mailing list and also offer as
mentor.
BR,
Alan
On 12/3/19, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I still think another more experienced mentor is needed. I’m thankful for
> the two others who have stepped forward to help out, and I’m sure they will
> do a good job, but it is a big commitment and neither are currently mentors
> on other projects (apologies in advance if I’ve got that wrong) I'm have the
> reverse issue in that currently mentoring 4 other projects and I’m also the
> VP of the Incubator which takes up a lot of my time. So I may not be
> available 100% off the time and would prefer there’s another mentor with a
> few podlings under their belts to help out.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
I still think another more experienced mentor is needed. I’m thankful for the two others who have stepped forward to help out, and I’m sure they will do a good job, but it is a big commitment and neither are currently mentors on other projects (apologies in advance if I’ve got that wrong) I'm have the reverse issue in that currently mentoring 4 other projects and I’m also the VP of the Incubator which takes up a lot of my time. So I may not be available 100% off the time and would prefer there’s another mentor with a few podlings under their belts to help out.
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org>.
Looks like we have enough number of mentors and all concerns have been
addressed. I will call a vote soon.
Thanks,
Junping
俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> 于2019年11月26日周二 下午6:12写道：
> Greetings folks:
>
>
> Here is proposal for NuttX (an IOT OS project) which I look forward to
> hearing feedback. The proposal is also on the wiki[1].
>
> Please note that this project is looking for mentors, so for IPMCs, please
> volunteer if you are interested to offer help here. Thx!
>
>
> NuttX
>
>
> =Abstract=
>
> NuttX is a mature, real-time embedded operating system (RTOS). It has
> wide usage in IoT projects, control systems, robotics, drones, and many
> other systems. Unique properties of NuttX are its strict adherence to
> standards and its scalability. NuttX follows the Unix standards as defined
> by OpenGroup.org (POSIX, ANSI, and others). This allows for a high degree
> of portability. Scalability is supported through a configuration system
> that allows NuttX to run on the smallest embedded platforms and through
> high end single board computers.
>
>
> =Proposal=
>
> NuttX was released under a BSD 3-Clause license on February 17, 2007.
> From that time until now it has been managed by a single person, Gregory
> Nutt. The user base of NuttX has grown to probably thousands of projects
> and perhaps a hundred active developments at any time. The code base has
> grown to around 1.5 million lines of code (according to OpenHub.com).
>
> NuttX has benefited from this single person management because this has
> resulted in a consistent architecture and controlled growth. But now it is
> time to open this project to the participation of others because this
> consistent architecture assures solid future growth, and because the
> magnitude of effort required to support the RTOS exceeds the capability of
> a single person, but also because users of NuttX require a stable road map
> going forward that does not depend on a single person.
>
> For these reasons, I propose that NuttX enter the Apache Incubator as a
> first step in opening the project to wider participation.
>
>
> =Initial Goals=
>
> The initial goal will be to move the existing BSD code base to Apache and
> integrate with the Apache development process and infrastructure. A primary
> goal of incubation will be to grow and diversify the NuttX community. We
> will convert that code base to the Apache license during incubation.
>
>
> =Current Status=
>
> As previously mentioned, NuttX is a mature, stable product in wide use in
> embedded products.
>
>
> ==Meritocracy==
>
> We value meritocracy and we understand that it is the basis for an open
> community that encourages multiple companies and individuals to contribute
> and be invested in the project’s future. We will encourage and monitor
> participation and make sure to extend privileges and responsibilities to
> all contributors.
>
> Being a mature project, NuttX already has an extensive user base with many
> people who understand the software, who have committed hundreds of changes,
> and are happy to participate in the project. I believe that with a little
> guidance and formalization, a PMC and a large group of experienced
> committers can quickly be established.
>
>
> ==Community==
>
> NuttX has a large, active community. Communication is via a Google group
> at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/nuttx where there are 395
> members as of this writing. Code is currently maintained
> at Bitbucket.org at https://bitbucket.org/nuttx/. Other communications
> are through Bitbucket issues and also via Slack for focused, interactive
> discussions.
>
> Keeping up with the communications, requests for help, issues, and
> contributions is more than a full time job at this time.
>
>
> ==Core Developers==
>
> NuttX was initially developed by Gregory Nutt, released as an open source
> project on February 17, 2007, and is still under active development. There
> are several dozen, active, frequent contributors involved with the project.
> The core OS can be considered finished at this point, but development
> continues in specialized areas of networking, IoT, cryptography, tools, and
> other more specialized functions.
>
>
> =Alignment=
>
> NuttX is an original development with some small percentage of ported
> code. It stands alone depends on no other projects.
>
>
> =Known Risks=
>
> ==Orphaned Products==
>
> We are committed to the future development of NuttX and understand that
> graduation to a TLP, while preferable, is not the only positive outcome of
> incubation.
>
> Should the NuttX project be accepted by the Incubator, the prospective
> PPMC would be willing to agree to a target incubation period of 2 years or
> less, knowing that every Incubator project incurs a certain cost in terms
> of ASF infrastructure and volunteer time.
>
>
> ==Inexperience with Open Source==
>
> None of the initial committers are Apache members and we will need some
> help in learning the Apache Way.
>
>
> ==Salaried Developers==
>
> It is expected that NuttX development will occur primarily on volunteer
> time, after hours. One initial committer will be paid by Xiaomi. All
> initial committers are all equally passionate about the project.
>
>
> =Relationships with Other Apache Products=
>
> There is no relationship between NuttX and any other Apache Products.
> There were discussions with the Mynewt project in the past concerning use
> of some Mynewt IoT components within NuttX. There is some possibility that
> those conversations could continue once NuttX has Apache licensing as well.
>
>
> =Required Resources=
>
> ==Mailing lists==
>
> * dev@nuttx.incubator.apache.org
>
> * commits@nuttx.incubator.apache.org
>
> * private@nuttx.incubator.apache.org
>
> The podling may also create a user mailing list, if needed.
>
>
> ==Source Control and Issue Tracking==
>
> NuttX current uses the Bitbucket infrastructure for development. It is
> likely that the NuttX podling would switch to GitHub and would use Apache’s
> gitbox integration to sync between GitHub and Apache infrastructure. The
> podling would use GitHub issues and pull requests for community engagement.
>
> Current Resources
>
> * Initial source: https://bitbucket.org/nuttx/
>
> * Wiki Page: http://www.nuttx.org/
>
> * Google Group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/nuttx
>
>
> =Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan=
>
> The NuttX source code in Bitbucket is currently licensed under the BSD
> 3-clause license and the most copyrights are assigned to the author,
> Gregory Nutt. If NuttX becomes an Incubator project at the ASF, the project
> will transfer the source code and trademark ownership to the Apache
> Software Foundation via a Software Grant Agreement.
>
>
> =External Dependencies=
>
> None. A small number of files within NuttX follow slightly different, but
> compatible licenses including BSD 2- and 4-clause, MIT, ISC, and Public
> Domain.
>
>
> =Cryptography=
>
> NuttX has negligible cryptographic capabilities at present. This is,
> however, and are where there will be extensive future growth.
>
>
> =Initial Committers=
>
> * Gregory Nutt gnutt@nuttx.org
>
> * Xiao Xiang xiaoxiang@xiaomi.com
>
> * Anthony Merlino anthony@vergeaero.com
>
>
> =Sponsors=
>
> * Champion and mentor: Junping Du junping_du@apache.org
>
> * Mentor: TBD
>
> * Mentor: TBD
>
>
> =Sponsoring Entity=
>
> * The Apache Incubator
>
>
>
>
>
> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/NuttXProposal
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Junping
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> Github issues etc can be transferred not sure about bitbucket, I’ll ask.
It’s not been done before at the ASF, and infra would need to look into tooling to do that, it may take some effort.
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> And I think there is no technical problem for transferring the code base,
> the infra team will help?
Yes Infra will do this, I believe bitbucket is git under the hood so they can transfer it and you will retain all the history of commits.
> Just mirror the code from bitbucket to ASFgitbox, and then mirror it to GitHub,
I’m not sure that is possible, but we can ask.
> The problem maybe the stuff on BitBucket other than
> code, for example, the issues and PRs? I do not think it is easy to
> transfer these things... Are they important to the project Greg?
Github issues etc can be transferred not sure about bitbucket, I’ll ask.
Thanks,
Justin
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RE: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by "Jerpelea, Alin" <Al...@sony.com>.
Hi
My name is Alin Jerpelea
I am working as a senior open source software architect at Sony.
After Greg donated the project to ASF I hope that we can all work together to make this project succeed.
Regards
Alin
-----Original Message-----
From: xiang xiao <xi...@gmail.com>
Sent: den 3 december 2019 01:48
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
My name is Xiang Xiao, I am an software architect from Xiaomi.
One of my important commitment is working with Greg to make NuttX become the Apache Top Level Project.
Thanks
Xiang
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 11:23 PM David Sidrane <Da...@nscdg.com> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> My name is David Sidrane and I am listed as a member of the initial
> NuttX PPMC and fully committed to the project and its successful move to Apache.
>
> I would like to commend all of you for your insights. We as a project
> have to learn about functioning in the Apache way. I am looking
> forward to the mentoring you can offer us.
>
> Greg's dedication has always been highly respected by all of us who
> have worked on NuttX. This donation to ASF is, in fact, in support of
> his legacy and I hope you will all join us in honoring his work and dedication.
>
> Regards,
>
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Duo Zhang [mailto:zhangduo@apache.org]
> Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2019 3:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
>
> The proposal on the wiki page has already listed five initial committers.
>
> And I think we can let the initial committers reply here to confirm
> that they will be active, at least in the early time in the incubator,
> before we elect new PPMC members.
>
> Does this solve your concerns? Thanks Dave.
>
> Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net>于2019年12月2日 周一01:38写道：
>
> > I share Ted’s concerns.
> >
> > It would help if the initial committer list was greater than the
> > bare minimum of three. Three PPMC members is not enough. There needs
> > to be at least five committers to start.
> >
> > (Should there be an explicit minimum in the proposal template?)
> >
> > It’s often the case that some initial committers do not actually
> > transition to the incubating podling.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Dec 1, 2019, at 9:16 AM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I doubt that the name is the crucial issue. I would see that have
> > > a substantial group of initial committers who are active in
> > > setting up
> > there
> > > project would be the crucial step. That doesn't have to happen
> > > before incubation.
> > >
> > > As a thought experiment, if Greg could go on a disconnected
> > > vacation
> > right
> > > now without messing up the move to Apache, I would have no
> > > worries. That
> > is
> > > almost certainly not true, but it can serve to illuminate the
> > > factors
> > that
> > > make it not true. Is the decision-making centralized? Are there
> > problematic
> > > thoughts about retaining a high bar to committee status? Do
> > > community members automatically defer to Greg rather than move
> > > forward on
> > decisions?
> > > Are non-coders excluded from committer status?
> > >
> > > I don't know the answers to these questions, but I have a very
> > > strong expectation that this will be harder to address than
> > > expected so it is really good that this has already been
> > > identified and there are some actions in progress. The only thing
> > > I can really add is that the
> > community
> > > members probably don't yet know how big a deal this will be and
> > > the
> > Apache
> > > folks probably assume more cultural transfer than has actually happened.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:43 PM Justin Mclean
> > >> <ju...@classsoftware.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >>> Having a project that seems to have the name of a prominent
> > >>> community member seems to pose a risk that there is a benevolent
> > >>> dictator pattern
> > >> at
> > >>> work here.
> > >>
> > >> Greg is aware of the “no dictators rule" and has already answered
> > >> this
> > in
> > >> this thread. He willing to hand over responsibilities to the
> > >> wider community and give up his trademark.
> > >>
> > >> Do you think it would be a good idea to change the name of the project?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Justin
> > >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> ---- To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > >> general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail:
> > >> general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by xiang xiao <xi...@gmail.com>.
My name is Xiang Xiao, I am an software architect from Xiaomi.
One of my important commitment is working with Greg to make NuttX
become the Apache Top Level Project.
Thanks
Xiang
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 11:23 PM David Sidrane <Da...@nscdg.com> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> My name is David Sidrane and I am listed as a member of the initial NuttX
> PPMC and fully committed to the project and its successful move to Apache.
>
> I would like to commend all of you for your insights. We as a project have
> to learn about functioning in the Apache way. I am looking forward to the
> mentoring you can offer us.
>
> Greg's dedication has always been highly respected by all of us who have
> worked on NuttX. This donation to ASF is, in fact, in support of his legacy
> and I hope you will all join us in honoring his work and dedication.
>
> Regards,
>
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Duo Zhang [mailto:zhangduo@apache.org]
> Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2019 3:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
>
> The proposal on the wiki page has already listed five initial committers.
>
> And I think we can let the initial committers reply here to confirm that
> they will be active, at least in the early time in the incubator, before we
> elect new PPMC members.
>
> Does this solve your concerns? Thanks Dave.
>
> Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net>于2019年12月2日 周一01:38写道：
>
> > I share Ted’s concerns.
> >
> > It would help if the initial committer list was greater than the bare
> > minimum of three. Three PPMC members is not enough. There needs to be at
> > least five committers to start.
> >
> > (Should there be an explicit minimum in the proposal template?)
> >
> > It’s often the case that some initial committers do not actually
> > transition to the incubating podling.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Dec 1, 2019, at 9:16 AM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I doubt that the name is the crucial issue. I would see that have a
> > > substantial group of initial committers who are active in setting up
> > there
> > > project would be the crucial step. That doesn't have to happen before
> > > incubation.
> > >
> > > As a thought experiment, if Greg could go on a disconnected vacation
> > right
> > > now without messing up the move to Apache, I would have no worries. That
> > is
> > > almost certainly not true, but it can serve to illuminate the factors
> > that
> > > make it not true. Is the decision-making centralized? Are there
> > problematic
> > > thoughts about retaining a high bar to committee status? Do community
> > > members automatically defer to Greg rather than move forward on
> > decisions?
> > > Are non-coders excluded from committer status?
> > >
> > > I don't know the answers to these questions, but I have a very strong
> > > expectation that this will be harder to address than expected so it is
> > > really good that this has already been identified and there are some
> > > actions in progress. The only thing I can really add is that the
> > community
> > > members probably don't yet know how big a deal this will be and the
> > Apache
> > > folks probably assume more cultural transfer than has actually happened.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:43 PM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >>> Having a project that seems to have the name of a prominent community
> > >>> member seems to pose a risk that there is a benevolent dictator
> > >>> pattern
> > >> at
> > >>> work here.
> > >>
> > >> Greg is aware of the “no dictators rule" and has already answered this
> > in
> > >> this thread. He willing to hand over responsibilities to the wider
> > >> community and give up his trademark.
> > >>
> > >> Do you think it would be a good idea to change the name of the project?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Justin
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
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RE: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by David Sidrane <Da...@nscdg.com>.
Hello All,
My name is David Sidrane and I am listed as a member of the initial NuttX
PPMC and fully committed to the project and its successful move to Apache.
I would like to commend all of you for your insights. We as a project have
to learn about functioning in the Apache way. I am looking forward to the
mentoring you can offer us.
Greg's dedication has always been highly respected by all of us who have
worked on NuttX. This donation to ASF is, in fact, in support of his legacy
and I hope you will all join us in honoring his work and dedication.
Regards,
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Duo Zhang [mailto:zhangduo@apache.org]
Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2019 3:45 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
The proposal on the wiki page has already listed five initial committers.
And I think we can let the initial committers reply here to confirm that
they will be active, at least in the early time in the incubator, before we
elect new PPMC members.
Does this solve your concerns? Thanks Dave.
Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net>于2019年12月2日 周一01:38写道：
> I share Ted’s concerns.
>
> It would help if the initial committer list was greater than the bare
> minimum of three. Three PPMC members is not enough. There needs to be at
> least five committers to start.
>
> (Should there be an explicit minimum in the proposal template?)
>
> It’s often the case that some initial committers do not actually
> transition to the incubating podling.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 1, 2019, at 9:16 AM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I doubt that the name is the crucial issue. I would see that have a
> > substantial group of initial committers who are active in setting up
> there
> > project would be the crucial step. That doesn't have to happen before
> > incubation.
> >
> > As a thought experiment, if Greg could go on a disconnected vacation
> right
> > now without messing up the move to Apache, I would have no worries. That
> is
> > almost certainly not true, but it can serve to illuminate the factors
> that
> > make it not true. Is the decision-making centralized? Are there
> problematic
> > thoughts about retaining a high bar to committee status? Do community
> > members automatically defer to Greg rather than move forward on
> decisions?
> > Are non-coders excluded from committer status?
> >
> > I don't know the answers to these questions, but I have a very strong
> > expectation that this will be harder to address than expected so it is
> > really good that this has already been identified and there are some
> > actions in progress. The only thing I can really add is that the
> community
> > members probably don't yet know how big a deal this will be and the
> Apache
> > folks probably assume more cultural transfer than has actually happened.
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:43 PM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >>> Having a project that seems to have the name of a prominent community
> >>> member seems to pose a risk that there is a benevolent dictator
> >>> pattern
> >> at
> >>> work here.
> >>
> >> Greg is aware of the “no dictators rule" and has already answered this
> in
> >> this thread. He willing to hand over responsibilities to the wider
> >> community and give up his trademark.
> >>
> >> Do you think it would be a good idea to change the name of the project?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Justin
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I would add everyone who has made significant contributions to the project
as initial committers (if they want to be added). Look at the mailing list
and the PRs and see who have made this contributions.
IMO the commiters added during incubation should be new people to the
project not existing people who have made significant contributions in the
past.
Thanks,
Justin
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
The initial five works for me. I see no reason to add more at this time. It
would only be a block for graduation, not inception.
To rephrase: some may have an issue with five, but I bet you'll get enough
+1 votes as-is.
Cheers,
-g
On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 6:39 PM 张铎(Duo Zhang) <pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it just because that it will spend more time...
>
> So what is the suggested initial committer number for NuttX? We can try to
> get even more but is this necessary? The plan is to expand the committers
> quickly during the incubation time, follow the Apache way, and also the
> IPMCs can observe whether there are problems when electing new committers.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Justin Mclean <ju...@gmail.com>于2019年12月2日 周一07:56写道：
>
> > Hi,
> > Given I assume there are other contributors why not make them initial
> > commitors?
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> > On Mon, 2 Dec 2019, 10:45 Duo Zhang, <zh...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > The proposal on the wiki page has already listed five initial
> committers.
> > >
> > > And I think we can let the initial committers reply here to confirm
> that
> > > they will be active, at least in the early time in the incubator,
> before
> > we
> > > elect new PPMC members.
> > >
> > > Does this solve your concerns? Thanks Dave.
> > >
> > > Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net>于2019年12月2日 周一01:38写道：
> > >
> > > > I share Ted’s concerns.
> > > >
> > > > It would help if the initial committer list was greater than the bare
> > > > minimum of three. Three PPMC members is not enough. There needs to be
> > at
> > > > least five committers to start.
> > > >
> > > > (Should there be an explicit minimum in the proposal template?)
> > > >
> > > > It’s often the case that some initial committers do not actually
> > > > transition to the incubating podling.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > > On Dec 1, 2019, at 9:16 AM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I doubt that the name is the crucial issue. I would see that have
> a
> > > > > substantial group of initial committers who are active in setting
> up
> > > > there
> > > > > project would be the crucial step. That doesn't have to happen
> before
> > > > > incubation.
> > > > >
> > > > > As a thought experiment, if Greg could go on a disconnected
> vacation
> > > > right
> > > > > now without messing up the move to Apache, I would have no worries.
> > > That
> > > > is
> > > > > almost certainly not true, but it can serve to illuminate the
> factors
> > > > that
> > > > > make it not true. Is the decision-making centralized? Are there
> > > > problematic
> > > > > thoughts about retaining a high bar to committee status? Do
> community
> > > > > members automatically defer to Greg rather than move forward on
> > > > decisions?
> > > > > Are non-coders excluded from committer status?
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know the answers to these questions, but I have a very
> strong
> > > > > expectation that this will be harder to address than expected so it
> > is
> > > > > really good that this has already been identified and there are
> some
> > > > > actions in progress. The only thing I can really add is that the
> > > > community
> > > > > members probably don't yet know how big a deal this will be and the
> > > > Apache
> > > > > folks probably assume more cultural transfer than has actually
> > > happened.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:43 PM Justin Mclean <
> > > justin@classsoftware.com>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hi,
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Having a project that seems to have the name of a prominent
> > community
> > > > >>> member seems to pose a risk that there is a benevolent dictator
> > > pattern
> > > > >> at
> > > > >>> work here.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Greg is aware of the “no dictators rule" and has already answered
> > this
> > > > in
> > > > >> this thread. He willing to hand over responsibilities to the wider
> > > > >> community and give up his trademark.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Do you think it would be a good idea to change the name of the
> > > project?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > >> Justin
> > > > >>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail:
> general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by "张铎 (Duo Zhang)" <pa...@gmail.com>.
I think it just because that it will spend more time...
So what is the suggested initial committer number for NuttX? We can try to
get even more but is this necessary? The plan is to expand the committers
quickly during the incubation time, follow the Apache way, and also the
IPMCs can observe whether there are problems when electing new committers.
Thanks.
Justin Mclean <ju...@gmail.com>于2019年12月2日 周一07:56写道：
> Hi,
> Given I assume there are other contributors why not make them initial
> commitors?
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> On Mon, 2 Dec 2019, 10:45 Duo Zhang, <zh...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > The proposal on the wiki page has already listed five initial committers.
> >
> > And I think we can let the initial committers reply here to confirm that
> > they will be active, at least in the early time in the incubator, before
> we
> > elect new PPMC members.
> >
> > Does this solve your concerns? Thanks Dave.
> >
> > Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net>于2019年12月2日 周一01:38写道：
> >
> > > I share Ted’s concerns.
> > >
> > > It would help if the initial committer list was greater than the bare
> > > minimum of three. Three PPMC members is not enough. There needs to be
> at
> > > least five committers to start.
> > >
> > > (Should there be an explicit minimum in the proposal template?)
> > >
> > > It’s often the case that some initial committers do not actually
> > > transition to the incubating podling.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On Dec 1, 2019, at 9:16 AM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I doubt that the name is the crucial issue. I would see that have a
> > > > substantial group of initial committers who are active in setting up
> > > there
> > > > project would be the crucial step. That doesn't have to happen before
> > > > incubation.
> > > >
> > > > As a thought experiment, if Greg could go on a disconnected vacation
> > > right
> > > > now without messing up the move to Apache, I would have no worries.
> > That
> > > is
> > > > almost certainly not true, but it can serve to illuminate the factors
> > > that
> > > > make it not true. Is the decision-making centralized? Are there
> > > problematic
> > > > thoughts about retaining a high bar to committee status? Do community
> > > > members automatically defer to Greg rather than move forward on
> > > decisions?
> > > > Are non-coders excluded from committer status?
> > > >
> > > > I don't know the answers to these questions, but I have a very strong
> > > > expectation that this will be harder to address than expected so it
> is
> > > > really good that this has already been identified and there are some
> > > > actions in progress. The only thing I can really add is that the
> > > community
> > > > members probably don't yet know how big a deal this will be and the
> > > Apache
> > > > folks probably assume more cultural transfer than has actually
> > happened.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:43 PM Justin Mclean <
> > justin@classsoftware.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi,
> > > >>
> > > >>> Having a project that seems to have the name of a prominent
> community
> > > >>> member seems to pose a risk that there is a benevolent dictator
> > pattern
> > > >> at
> > > >>> work here.
> > > >>
> > > >> Greg is aware of the “no dictators rule" and has already answered
> this
> > > in
> > > >> this thread. He willing to hand over responsibilities to the wider
> > > >> community and give up his trademark.
> > > >>
> > > >> Do you think it would be a good idea to change the name of the
> > project?
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Justin
> > > >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
Given I assume there are other contributors why not make them initial
commitors?
Thanks,
Justin
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019, 10:45 Duo Zhang, <zh...@apache.org> wrote:
> The proposal on the wiki page has already listed five initial committers.
>
> And I think we can let the initial committers reply here to confirm that
> they will be active, at least in the early time in the incubator, before we
> elect new PPMC members.
>
> Does this solve your concerns? Thanks Dave.
>
> Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net>于2019年12月2日 周一01:38写道：
>
> > I share Ted’s concerns.
> >
> > It would help if the initial committer list was greater than the bare
> > minimum of three. Three PPMC members is not enough. There needs to be at
> > least five committers to start.
> >
> > (Should there be an explicit minimum in the proposal template?)
> >
> > It’s often the case that some initial committers do not actually
> > transition to the incubating podling.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Dec 1, 2019, at 9:16 AM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I doubt that the name is the crucial issue. I would see that have a
> > > substantial group of initial committers who are active in setting up
> > there
> > > project would be the crucial step. That doesn't have to happen before
> > > incubation.
> > >
> > > As a thought experiment, if Greg could go on a disconnected vacation
> > right
> > > now without messing up the move to Apache, I would have no worries.
> That
> > is
> > > almost certainly not true, but it can serve to illuminate the factors
> > that
> > > make it not true. Is the decision-making centralized? Are there
> > problematic
> > > thoughts about retaining a high bar to committee status? Do community
> > > members automatically defer to Greg rather than move forward on
> > decisions?
> > > Are non-coders excluded from committer status?
> > >
> > > I don't know the answers to these questions, but I have a very strong
> > > expectation that this will be harder to address than expected so it is
> > > really good that this has already been identified and there are some
> > > actions in progress. The only thing I can really add is that the
> > community
> > > members probably don't yet know how big a deal this will be and the
> > Apache
> > > folks probably assume more cultural transfer than has actually
> happened.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:43 PM Justin Mclean <
> justin@classsoftware.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >>> Having a project that seems to have the name of a prominent community
> > >>> member seems to pose a risk that there is a benevolent dictator
> pattern
> > >> at
> > >>> work here.
> > >>
> > >> Greg is aware of the “no dictators rule" and has already answered this
> > in
> > >> this thread. He willing to hand over responsibilities to the wider
> > >> community and give up his trademark.
> > >>
> > >> Do you think it would be a good idea to change the name of the
> project?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Justin
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
RE: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by "Jerpelea, Alin" <Al...@sony.com>.
I am in as much as my time permits
Alin
-----Original Message-----
From: Duo Zhang <zh...@apache.org>
Sent: den 2 december 2019 00:45
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
The proposal on the wiki page has already listed five initial committers.
And I think we can let the initial committers reply here to confirm that they will be active, at least in the early time in the incubator, before we elect new PPMC members.
Does this solve your concerns? Thanks Dave.
Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net>于2019年12月2日 周一01:38写道：
> I share Ted’s concerns.
>
> It would help if the initial committer list was greater than the bare
> minimum of three. Three PPMC members is not enough. There needs to be
> at least five committers to start.
>
> (Should there be an explicit minimum in the proposal template?)
>
> It’s often the case that some initial committers do not actually
> transition to the incubating podling.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 1, 2019, at 9:16 AM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I doubt that the name is the crucial issue. I would see that have a
> > substantial group of initial committers who are active in setting up
> there
> > project would be the crucial step. That doesn't have to happen
> > before incubation.
> >
> > As a thought experiment, if Greg could go on a disconnected vacation
> right
> > now without messing up the move to Apache, I would have no worries.
> > That
> is
> > almost certainly not true, but it can serve to illuminate the
> > factors
> that
> > make it not true. Is the decision-making centralized? Are there
> problematic
> > thoughts about retaining a high bar to committee status? Do
> > community members automatically defer to Greg rather than move
> > forward on
> decisions?
> > Are non-coders excluded from committer status?
> >
> > I don't know the answers to these questions, but I have a very
> > strong expectation that this will be harder to address than expected
> > so it is really good that this has already been identified and there
> > are some actions in progress. The only thing I can really add is
> > that the
> community
> > members probably don't yet know how big a deal this will be and the
> Apache
> > folks probably assume more cultural transfer than has actually happened.
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:43 PM Justin Mclean
> >> <ju...@classsoftware.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >>> Having a project that seems to have the name of a prominent
> >>> community member seems to pose a risk that there is a benevolent
> >>> dictator pattern
> >> at
> >>> work here.
> >>
> >> Greg is aware of the “no dictators rule" and has already answered
> >> this
> in
> >> this thread. He willing to hand over responsibilities to the wider
> >> community and give up his trademark.
> >>
> >> Do you think it would be a good idea to change the name of the project?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Justin
> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Duo Zhang <zh...@apache.org>.
The proposal on the wiki page has already listed five initial committers.
And I think we can let the initial committers reply here to confirm that
they will be active, at least in the early time in the incubator, before we
elect new PPMC members.
Does this solve your concerns? Thanks Dave.
Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net>于2019年12月2日 周一01:38写道：
> I share Ted’s concerns.
>
> It would help if the initial committer list was greater than the bare
> minimum of three. Three PPMC members is not enough. There needs to be at
> least five committers to start.
>
> (Should there be an explicit minimum in the proposal template?)
>
> It’s often the case that some initial committers do not actually
> transition to the incubating podling.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 1, 2019, at 9:16 AM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I doubt that the name is the crucial issue. I would see that have a
> > substantial group of initial committers who are active in setting up
> there
> > project would be the crucial step. That doesn't have to happen before
> > incubation.
> >
> > As a thought experiment, if Greg could go on a disconnected vacation
> right
> > now without messing up the move to Apache, I would have no worries. That
> is
> > almost certainly not true, but it can serve to illuminate the factors
> that
> > make it not true. Is the decision-making centralized? Are there
> problematic
> > thoughts about retaining a high bar to committee status? Do community
> > members automatically defer to Greg rather than move forward on
> decisions?
> > Are non-coders excluded from committer status?
> >
> > I don't know the answers to these questions, but I have a very strong
> > expectation that this will be harder to address than expected so it is
> > really good that this has already been identified and there are some
> > actions in progress. The only thing I can really add is that the
> community
> > members probably don't yet know how big a deal this will be and the
> Apache
> > folks probably assume more cultural transfer than has actually happened.
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:43 PM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >>> Having a project that seems to have the name of a prominent community
> >>> member seems to pose a risk that there is a benevolent dictator pattern
> >> at
> >>> work here.
> >>
> >> Greg is aware of the “no dictators rule" and has already answered this
> in
> >> this thread. He willing to hand over responsibilities to the wider
> >> community and give up his trademark.
> >>
> >> Do you think it would be a good idea to change the name of the project?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Justin
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 11:38 AM Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net> wrote:
>...
> It would help if the initial committer list was greater than the bare
> minimum of three. Three PPMC members is not enough. There needs to be at
> least five committers to start.
>
Read the thread in its entirety, please. It has already been expanded to
five. And more can join while incubating.
I'm +1 (binding) on the proposal, with its current list of
committers/mentors. (ie. when the [VOTE] comes up)
Cheers,
-g
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net>.
I share Ted’s concerns.
It would help if the initial committer list was greater than the bare minimum of three. Three PPMC members is not enough. There needs to be at least five committers to start.
(Should there be an explicit minimum in the proposal template?)
It’s often the case that some initial committers do not actually transition to the incubating podling.
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 1, 2019, at 9:16 AM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I doubt that the name is the crucial issue. I would see that have a
> substantial group of initial committers who are active in setting up there
> project would be the crucial step. That doesn't have to happen before
> incubation.
>
> As a thought experiment, if Greg could go on a disconnected vacation right
> now without messing up the move to Apache, I would have no worries. That is
> almost certainly not true, but it can serve to illuminate the factors that
> make it not true. Is the decision-making centralized? Are there problematic
> thoughts about retaining a high bar to committee status? Do community
> members automatically defer to Greg rather than move forward on decisions?
> Are non-coders excluded from committer status?
>
> I don't know the answers to these questions, but I have a very strong
> expectation that this will be harder to address than expected so it is
> really good that this has already been identified and there are some
> actions in progress. The only thing I can really add is that the community
> members probably don't yet know how big a deal this will be and the Apache
> folks probably assume more cultural transfer than has actually happened.
>
>
>
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:43 PM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>> Having a project that seems to have the name of a prominent community
>>> member seems to pose a risk that there is a benevolent dictator pattern
>> at
>>> work here.
>>
>> Greg is aware of the “no dictators rule" and has already answered this in
>> this thread. He willing to hand over responsibilities to the wider
>> community and give up his trademark.
>>
>> Do you think it would be a good idea to change the name of the project?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Justin
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 6:16 PM Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...As a thought experiment, if Greg could go on a disconnected vacation right
> now without messing up the move to Apache, I would have no worries...
IMHO having a low bus factor is a concern for *exiting* incubation.
I don't see it as a problem for entering the Incubator, as long as
there's a plan to improve things.
-Bertrand
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
I doubt that the name is the crucial issue. I would see that have a
substantial group of initial committers who are active in setting up there
project would be the crucial step. That doesn't have to happen before
incubation.
As a thought experiment, if Greg could go on a disconnected vacation right
now without messing up the move to Apache, I would have no worries. That is
almost certainly not true, but it can serve to illuminate the factors that
make it not true. Is the decision-making centralized? Are there problematic
thoughts about retaining a high bar to committee status? Do community
members automatically defer to Greg rather than move forward on decisions?
Are non-coders excluded from committer status?
I don't know the answers to these questions, but I have a very strong
expectation that this will be harder to address than expected so it is
really good that this has already been identified and there are some
actions in progress. The only thing I can really add is that the community
members probably don't yet know how big a deal this will be and the Apache
folks probably assume more cultural transfer than has actually happened.
On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 11:43 PM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > Having a project that seems to have the name of a prominent community
> > member seems to pose a risk that there is a benevolent dictator pattern
> at
> > work here.
>
> Greg is aware of the “no dictators rule" and has already answered this in
> this thread. He willing to hand over responsibilities to the wider
> community and give up his trademark.
>
> Do you think it would be a good idea to change the name of the project?
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
Thanks for your considered response Greg.
Just one thing you may want to reconsider is voting 0 on all votes. 3 +1 votes are needed to make a release and 3 +1 votes and no -1 on other (rare) matters, with a small PPMC it may be hard to get those 3 +1 votes.
It would also be good to see another mentor (or two) on the project.
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 12:39 AM Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I say just move to a vote and stop the second-guessing. GNutt seems
> on-board. Let them get their stuff done...
Yes!
Many thanks to Greg Nutt for your comments, to me this project looks
ready to enter incubation, with some adjustments required during the
journey towards graduation.
That's what incubation is for.
-Bertrand
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org>.
I see. Thanks Dave for update.
Thanks,
Junping
Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net> 于2019年12月3日周二 下午2:05写道：
> Hi Junping,
>
> I’m currently mentoring five podlings which is probably two more than I
> should since I’ve joined the board.
>
> Also, I’m interested in the OSSBot project...
>
> Good luck with NuttX!
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 2, 2019, at 4:57 PM, 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like most of concerns are addressed through the discussion.
> > Just like Justin said, we will call the vote once one or two mentor get
> > volunteer here.
> > Ted and Dave, why not watch how project is going as mentor and make sure
> it
> > follow Apache way if you got time and interest for the project.:)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Junping
> >
> > Justin Mclean <ju...@gmail.com>于2019年12月3日 周二上午8:43写道：
> >
> >> Hi,
> >> As soon as an additional mentors or two are identified I would call for
> a
> >> vote.
> >> Thanks,
> >> Justin
> >>
> >>> On Tue, 3 Dec 2019, 10:39 Greg Stein, <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I say just move to a vote and stop the second-guessing. GNutt seems
> >>> on-board. Let them get their stuff done.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 5:23 PM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Might be less risk and disruption for a few experienced ASF folks to
> go
> >>>> "live amongst" the NuttX folks where they are now and verify that that
> >>> the
> >>>> founder's authority and reputation will not result in a BDFL effect.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just a thought,
> >>>> -Alex
> >>>>
> >>>> On 12/2/19, 12:48 PM, "Ted Dunning" <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Very well said.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am optimistic.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 9:26 PM Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> This is a good discussion to have had before entering the
> >>>> incubator, and
> >>>>> I'm satisfied that the intent is good, and the podling can
> >>>> demonstrate
> >>>>> during incubation that the founder will in fact step back and
> >> allow
> >>>> the
> >>>>> project to move forward without the founder's undue influence.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Note that it's fine for the founder to continue to work on the
> >>>> project,
> >>>>> but in a different role.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have been standing back and not getting deeply involved with
> >> this
> >>>>> discussion because it pertains too closely to me. It is my
> >>>> intention to
> >>>>> divest myself of total authority over the project just as stated
> >> in
> >>>> the
> >>>>> Proposal. Further, it is my intention to stay out of the initial
> >>>>> formation of the project as much as possible, in partial
> >>> fulfillment
> >>>> of
> >>>>> Ted Dunning's "thought experiment." I intend to vote 0 on all
> >>>> decisions
> >>>>> before the PPMC -- unless, I suppose, I had some very strong
> >>> opinion
> >>>>> about some topic. I cannot imagine what topic that might be,
> >>>> however.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I will be available as needed for information needed by the
> >> others
> >>> to
> >>>>> accomplish this transition but for the most part, just consider
> >> me
> >>>> as on
> >>>>> vacation in place. I will help as much as needed and stay out of
> >>> the
> >>>>> way as much as possible.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I suppose I should say a little more about my motivations in
> >> this.
> >>>>> Without some understanding, is is reasonable to be skeptical.
> >> Yes,
> >>>> the
> >>>>> project is very dear to me and the result of many years of blood,
> >>>> sweat,
> >>>>> and tears and years of work mostly done alone for crazy long
> >> hours.
> >>>>> Being a "benevolent dictator" does not proper describe my past
> >> role
> >>>>> because I was the ONLY person on the project. I did
> >> everything. I
> >>>>> still do.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There are two things that motivate me: First, the workload has
> >>>> gotten
> >>>>> to be far too much for one person. I dispose of around 60-100
> >>>> changes
> >>>>> per week and really have no personal life left. It is more than
> >> I
> >>>> can
> >>>>> do (and much more than I can do well). The only real way to
> >> solve
> >>>> that
> >>>>> is to open the project up to others working as equals. The
> >> second,
> >>>> and
> >>>>> more important, motivation is the I am closing in on 70 years old
> >>>> now.
> >>>>> I retired 8 retires ago and I cannot realistically control this
> >>>> project
> >>>>> long into the future. For my personal health and sanity, I
> >> really
> >>>> need
> >>>>> to detach and let the project take a life of its own that does
> >> not
> >>>>> depend on me in any way.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I would see the biggest risk to a new PPMC would not be me, but
> >>>> rather
> >>>>> the sheer volume of work that the PPMC is stepping into. I am
> >>>> prepared
> >>>>> for some initial chaos and perhaps a missed release cycle. But I
> >>>> have
> >>>>> come to accept that that is a reasonable price to pay for a clean
> >>>>> knife-edge hand-off.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Greg
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net>.
Hi Junping,
I’m currently mentoring five podlings which is probably two more than I should since I’ve joined the board.
Also, I’m interested in the OSSBot project...
Good luck with NuttX!
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 2, 2019, at 4:57 PM, 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Sounds like most of concerns are addressed through the discussion.
> Just like Justin said, we will call the vote once one or two mentor get
> volunteer here.
> Ted and Dave, why not watch how project is going as mentor and make sure it
> follow Apache way if you got time and interest for the project.:)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Junping
>
> Justin Mclean <ju...@gmail.com>于2019年12月3日 周二上午8:43写道：
>
>> Hi,
>> As soon as an additional mentors or two are identified I would call for a
>> vote.
>> Thanks,
>> Justin
>>
>>> On Tue, 3 Dec 2019, 10:39 Greg Stein, <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I say just move to a vote and stop the second-guessing. GNutt seems
>>> on-board. Let them get their stuff done.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 5:23 PM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Might be less risk and disruption for a few experienced ASF folks to go
>>>> "live amongst" the NuttX folks where they are now and verify that that
>>> the
>>>> founder's authority and reputation will not result in a BDFL effect.
>>>>
>>>> Just a thought,
>>>> -Alex
>>>>
>>>> On 12/2/19, 12:48 PM, "Ted Dunning" <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Very well said.
>>>>
>>>> I am optimistic.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 9:26 PM Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a good discussion to have had before entering the
>>>> incubator, and
>>>>> I'm satisfied that the intent is good, and the podling can
>>>> demonstrate
>>>>> during incubation that the founder will in fact step back and
>> allow
>>>> the
>>>>> project to move forward without the founder's undue influence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note that it's fine for the founder to continue to work on the
>>>> project,
>>>>> but in a different role.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been standing back and not getting deeply involved with
>> this
>>>>> discussion because it pertains too closely to me. It is my
>>>> intention to
>>>>> divest myself of total authority over the project just as stated
>> in
>>>> the
>>>>> Proposal. Further, it is my intention to stay out of the initial
>>>>> formation of the project as much as possible, in partial
>>> fulfillment
>>>> of
>>>>> Ted Dunning's "thought experiment." I intend to vote 0 on all
>>>> decisions
>>>>> before the PPMC -- unless, I suppose, I had some very strong
>>> opinion
>>>>> about some topic. I cannot imagine what topic that might be,
>>>> however.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will be available as needed for information needed by the
>> others
>>> to
>>>>> accomplish this transition but for the most part, just consider
>> me
>>>> as on
>>>>> vacation in place. I will help as much as needed and stay out of
>>> the
>>>>> way as much as possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose I should say a little more about my motivations in
>> this.
>>>>> Without some understanding, is is reasonable to be skeptical.
>> Yes,
>>>> the
>>>>> project is very dear to me and the result of many years of blood,
>>>> sweat,
>>>>> and tears and years of work mostly done alone for crazy long
>> hours.
>>>>> Being a "benevolent dictator" does not proper describe my past
>> role
>>>>> because I was the ONLY person on the project. I did
>> everything. I
>>>>> still do.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are two things that motivate me: First, the workload has
>>>> gotten
>>>>> to be far too much for one person. I dispose of around 60-100
>>>> changes
>>>>> per week and really have no personal life left. It is more than
>> I
>>>> can
>>>>> do (and much more than I can do well). The only real way to
>> solve
>>>> that
>>>>> is to open the project up to others working as equals. The
>> second,
>>>> and
>>>>> more important, motivation is the I am closing in on 70 years old
>>>> now.
>>>>> I retired 8 retires ago and I cannot realistically control this
>>>> project
>>>>> long into the future. For my personal health and sanity, I
>> really
>>>> need
>>>>> to detach and let the project take a life of its own that does
>> not
>>>>> depend on me in any way.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would see the biggest risk to a new PPMC would not be me, but
>>>> rather
>>>>> the sheer volume of work that the PPMC is stepping into. I am
>>>> prepared
>>>>> for some initial chaos and perhaps a missed release cycle. But I
>>>> have
>>>>> come to accept that that is a reasonable price to pay for a clean
>>>>> knife-edge hand-off.
>>>>>
>>>>> Greg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org>.
Hi Flavio,
Thanks for volunteering! I am adding you as the mentor of the project.
Thanks,
Junping
Flavio Junqueira <fp...@apache.org> 于2019年12月3日周二 下午6:28写道：
> Hi Junping,
>
> I'd like to volunteer.
>
> -Flavio
>
> > On 3 Dec 2019, at 11:19, 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Got it. Thanks for updating, Ted.
> > Any other volunteers?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Junping
> >
> > Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月3日周二 下午6:15写道：
> >
> >> Jumping,
> >>
> >> It would be great to help more with nuttx, but my board membership and a
> >> new day job would make me much less than a good mentor.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 1:56 AM 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Sounds like most of concerns are addressed through the discussion.
> >>> Just like Justin said, we will call the vote once one or two mentor get
> >>> volunteer here.
> >>> Ted and Dave, why not watch how project is going as mentor and make
> sure
> >> it
> >>> follow Apache way if you got time and interest for the project.:)
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Junping
> >>>
> >>> Justin Mclean <ju...@gmail.com>于2019年12月3日 周二上午8:43写道：
> >>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>> As soon as an additional mentors or two are identified I would call
> >> for a
> >>>> vote.
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Justin
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, 3 Dec 2019, 10:39 Greg Stein, <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I say just move to a vote and stop the second-guessing. GNutt seems
> >>>>> on-board. Let them get their stuff done.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 5:23 PM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Might be less risk and disruption for a few experienced ASF folks
> >> to
> >>> go
> >>>>>> "live amongst" the NuttX folks where they are now and verify that
> >>> that
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>> founder's authority and reputation will not result in a BDFL
> >> effect.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Just a thought,
> >>>>>> -Alex
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 12/2/19, 12:48 PM, "Ted Dunning" <te...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Very well said.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am optimistic.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 9:26 PM Gregory Nutt <
> >> spudaneco@gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This is a good discussion to have had before entering the
> >>>>>> incubator, and
> >>>>>>> I'm satisfied that the intent is good, and the podling can
> >>>>>> demonstrate
> >>>>>>> during incubation that the founder will in fact step back and
> >>>> allow
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> project to move forward without the founder's undue
> >> influence.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Note that it's fine for the founder to continue to work on
> >>> the
> >>>>>> project,
> >>>>>>> but in a different role.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I have been standing back and not getting deeply involved
> >> with
> >>>> this
> >>>>>>> discussion because it pertains too closely to me. It is my
> >>>>>> intention to
> >>>>>>> divest myself of total authority over the project just as
> >>> stated
> >>>> in
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> Proposal. Further, it is my intention to stay out of the
> >>> initial
> >>>>>>> formation of the project as much as possible, in partial
> >>>>> fulfillment
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>>> Ted Dunning's "thought experiment." I intend to vote 0 on
> >> all
> >>>>>> decisions
> >>>>>>> before the PPMC -- unless, I suppose, I had some very strong
> >>>>> opinion
> >>>>>>> about some topic. I cannot imagine what topic that might be,
> >>>>>> however.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I will be available as needed for information needed by the
> >>>> others
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>> accomplish this transition but for the most part, just
> >> consider
> >>>> me
> >>>>>> as on
> >>>>>>> vacation in place. I will help as much as needed and stay
> >> out
> >>> of
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>> way as much as possible.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I suppose I should say a little more about my motivations in
> >>>> this.
> >>>>>>> Without some understanding, is is reasonable to be skeptical.
> >>>> Yes,
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> project is very dear to me and the result of many years of
> >>> blood,
> >>>>>> sweat,
> >>>>>>> and tears and years of work mostly done alone for crazy long
> >>>> hours.
> >>>>>>> Being a "benevolent dictator" does not proper describe my
> >> past
> >>>> role
> >>>>>>> because I was the ONLY person on the project. I did
> >>>> everything. I
> >>>>>>> still do.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> There are two things that motivate me: First, the workload
> >> has
> >>>>>> gotten
> >>>>>>> to be far too much for one person. I dispose of around
> >> 60-100
> >>>>>> changes
> >>>>>>> per week and really have no personal life left. It is more
> >>> than
> >>>> I
> >>>>>> can
> >>>>>>> do (and much more than I can do well). The only real way to
> >>>> solve
> >>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> is to open the project up to others working as equals. The
> >>>> second,
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> more important, motivation is the I am closing in on 70 years
> >>> old
> >>>>>> now.
> >>>>>>> I retired 8 retires ago and I cannot realistically control
> >> this
> >>>>>> project
> >>>>>>> long into the future. For my personal health and sanity, I
> >>>> really
> >>>>>> need
> >>>>>>> to detach and let the project take a life of its own that
> >> does
> >>>> not
> >>>>>>> depend on me in any way.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I would see the biggest risk to a new PPMC would not be me,
> >> but
> >>>>>> rather
> >>>>>>> the sheer volume of work that the PPMC is stepping into. I
> >> am
> >>>>>> prepared
> >>>>>>> for some initial chaos and perhaps a missed release cycle.
> >>> But I
> >>>>>> have
> >>>>>>> come to accept that that is a reasonable price to pay for a
> >>> clean
> >>>>>>> knife-edge hand-off.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Greg
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >>> general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> >>>> general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Flavio Junqueira <fp...@apache.org>.
Hi Junping,
I'd like to volunteer.
-Flavio
> On 3 Dec 2019, at 11:19, 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Got it. Thanks for updating, Ted.
> Any other volunteers?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Junping
>
> Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月3日周二 下午6:15写道：
>
>> Jumping,
>>
>> It would be great to help more with nuttx, but my board membership and a
>> new day job would make me much less than a good mentor.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 1:56 AM 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Sounds like most of concerns are addressed through the discussion.
>>> Just like Justin said, we will call the vote once one or two mentor get
>>> volunteer here.
>>> Ted and Dave, why not watch how project is going as mentor and make sure
>> it
>>> follow Apache way if you got time and interest for the project.:)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Junping
>>>
>>> Justin Mclean <ju...@gmail.com>于2019年12月3日 周二上午8:43写道：
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> As soon as an additional mentors or two are identified I would call
>> for a
>>>> vote.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Justin
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 3 Dec 2019, 10:39 Greg Stein, <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I say just move to a vote and stop the second-guessing. GNutt seems
>>>>> on-board. Let them get their stuff done.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 5:23 PM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Might be less risk and disruption for a few experienced ASF folks
>> to
>>> go
>>>>>> "live amongst" the NuttX folks where they are now and verify that
>>> that
>>>>> the
>>>>>> founder's authority and reputation will not result in a BDFL
>> effect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just a thought,
>>>>>> -Alex
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/2/19, 12:48 PM, "Ted Dunning" <te...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very well said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am optimistic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 9:26 PM Gregory Nutt <
>> spudaneco@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is a good discussion to have had before entering the
>>>>>> incubator, and
>>>>>>> I'm satisfied that the intent is good, and the podling can
>>>>>> demonstrate
>>>>>>> during incubation that the founder will in fact step back and
>>>> allow
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> project to move forward without the founder's undue
>> influence.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Note that it's fine for the founder to continue to work on
>>> the
>>>>>> project,
>>>>>>> but in a different role.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been standing back and not getting deeply involved
>> with
>>>> this
>>>>>>> discussion because it pertains too closely to me. It is my
>>>>>> intention to
>>>>>>> divest myself of total authority over the project just as
>>> stated
>>>> in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Proposal. Further, it is my intention to stay out of the
>>> initial
>>>>>>> formation of the project as much as possible, in partial
>>>>> fulfillment
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> Ted Dunning's "thought experiment." I intend to vote 0 on
>> all
>>>>>> decisions
>>>>>>> before the PPMC -- unless, I suppose, I had some very strong
>>>>> opinion
>>>>>>> about some topic. I cannot imagine what topic that might be,
>>>>>> however.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will be available as needed for information needed by the
>>>> others
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> accomplish this transition but for the most part, just
>> consider
>>>> me
>>>>>> as on
>>>>>>> vacation in place. I will help as much as needed and stay
>> out
>>> of
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> way as much as possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suppose I should say a little more about my motivations in
>>>> this.
>>>>>>> Without some understanding, is is reasonable to be skeptical.
>>>> Yes,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> project is very dear to me and the result of many years of
>>> blood,
>>>>>> sweat,
>>>>>>> and tears and years of work mostly done alone for crazy long
>>>> hours.
>>>>>>> Being a "benevolent dictator" does not proper describe my
>> past
>>>> role
>>>>>>> because I was the ONLY person on the project. I did
>>>> everything. I
>>>>>>> still do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are two things that motivate me: First, the workload
>> has
>>>>>> gotten
>>>>>>> to be far too much for one person. I dispose of around
>> 60-100
>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>> per week and really have no personal life left. It is more
>>> than
>>>> I
>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> do (and much more than I can do well). The only real way to
>>>> solve
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> is to open the project up to others working as equals. The
>>>> second,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> more important, motivation is the I am closing in on 70 years
>>> old
>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>> I retired 8 retires ago and I cannot realistically control
>> this
>>>>>> project
>>>>>>> long into the future. For my personal health and sanity, I
>>>> really
>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> to detach and let the project take a life of its own that
>> does
>>>> not
>>>>>>> depend on me in any way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would see the biggest risk to a new PPMC would not be me,
>> but
>>>>>> rather
>>>>>>> the sheer volume of work that the PPMC is stepping into. I
>> am
>>>>>> prepared
>>>>>>> for some initial chaos and perhaps a missed release cycle.
>>> But I
>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> come to accept that that is a reasonable price to pay for a
>>> clean
>>>>>>> knife-edge hand-off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>> general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>>>> general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org>.
Got it. Thanks for updating, Ted.
Any other volunteers?
Thanks,
Junping
Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月3日周二 下午6:15写道：
> Jumping,
>
> It would be great to help more with nuttx, but my board membership and a
> new day job would make me much less than a good mentor.
>
> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 1:56 AM 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Sounds like most of concerns are addressed through the discussion.
> > Just like Justin said, we will call the vote once one or two mentor get
> > volunteer here.
> > Ted and Dave, why not watch how project is going as mentor and make sure
> it
> > follow Apache way if you got time and interest for the project.:)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Junping
> >
> > Justin Mclean <ju...@gmail.com>于2019年12月3日 周二上午8:43写道：
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > As soon as an additional mentors or two are identified I would call
> for a
> > > vote.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Justin
> > >
> > > On Tue, 3 Dec 2019, 10:39 Greg Stein, <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I say just move to a vote and stop the second-guessing. GNutt seems
> > > > on-board. Let them get their stuff done.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 5:23 PM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Might be less risk and disruption for a few experienced ASF folks
> to
> > go
> > > > > "live amongst" the NuttX folks where they are now and verify that
> > that
> > > > the
> > > > > founder's authority and reputation will not result in a BDFL
> effect.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just a thought,
> > > > > -Alex
> > > > >
> > > > > On 12/2/19, 12:48 PM, "Ted Dunning" <te...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Very well said.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am optimistic.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 9:26 PM Gregory Nutt <
> spudaneco@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is a good discussion to have had before entering the
> > > > > incubator, and
> > > > > > I'm satisfied that the intent is good, and the podling can
> > > > > demonstrate
> > > > > > during incubation that the founder will in fact step back and
> > > allow
> > > > > the
> > > > > > project to move forward without the founder's undue
> influence.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Note that it's fine for the founder to continue to work on
> > the
> > > > > project,
> > > > > > but in a different role.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been standing back and not getting deeply involved
> with
> > > this
> > > > > > discussion because it pertains too closely to me. It is my
> > > > > intention to
> > > > > > divest myself of total authority over the project just as
> > stated
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > Proposal. Further, it is my intention to stay out of the
> > initial
> > > > > > formation of the project as much as possible, in partial
> > > > fulfillment
> > > > > of
> > > > > > Ted Dunning's "thought experiment." I intend to vote 0 on
> all
> > > > > decisions
> > > > > > before the PPMC -- unless, I suppose, I had some very strong
> > > > opinion
> > > > > > about some topic. I cannot imagine what topic that might be,
> > > > > however.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I will be available as needed for information needed by the
> > > others
> > > > to
> > > > > > accomplish this transition but for the most part, just
> consider
> > > me
> > > > > as on
> > > > > > vacation in place. I will help as much as needed and stay
> out
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > way as much as possible.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I suppose I should say a little more about my motivations in
> > > this.
> > > > > > Without some understanding, is is reasonable to be skeptical.
> > > Yes,
> > > > > the
> > > > > > project is very dear to me and the result of many years of
> > blood,
> > > > > sweat,
> > > > > > and tears and years of work mostly done alone for crazy long
> > > hours.
> > > > > > Being a "benevolent dictator" does not proper describe my
> past
> > > role
> > > > > > because I was the ONLY person on the project. I did
> > > everything. I
> > > > > > still do.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are two things that motivate me: First, the workload
> has
> > > > > gotten
> > > > > > to be far too much for one person. I dispose of around
> 60-100
> > > > > changes
> > > > > > per week and really have no personal life left. It is more
> > than
> > > I
> > > > > can
> > > > > > do (and much more than I can do well). The only real way to
> > > solve
> > > > > that
> > > > > > is to open the project up to others working as equals. The
> > > second,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > more important, motivation is the I am closing in on 70 years
> > old
> > > > > now.
> > > > > > I retired 8 retires ago and I cannot realistically control
> this
> > > > > project
> > > > > > long into the future. For my personal health and sanity, I
> > > really
> > > > > need
> > > > > > to detach and let the project take a life of its own that
> does
> > > not
> > > > > > depend on me in any way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would see the biggest risk to a new PPMC would not be me,
> but
> > > > > rather
> > > > > > the sheer volume of work that the PPMC is stepping into. I
> am
> > > > > prepared
> > > > > > for some initial chaos and perhaps a missed release cycle.
> > But I
> > > > > have
> > > > > > come to accept that that is a reasonable price to pay for a
> > clean
> > > > > > knife-edge hand-off.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greg
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Jumping,
It would be great to help more with nuttx, but my board membership and a
new day job would make me much less than a good mentor.
On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 1:56 AM 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
> Sounds like most of concerns are addressed through the discussion.
> Just like Justin said, we will call the vote once one or two mentor get
> volunteer here.
> Ted and Dave, why not watch how project is going as mentor and make sure it
> follow Apache way if you got time and interest for the project.:)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Junping
>
> Justin Mclean <ju...@gmail.com>于2019年12月3日 周二上午8:43写道：
>
> > Hi,
> > As soon as an additional mentors or two are identified I would call for a
> > vote.
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> > On Tue, 3 Dec 2019, 10:39 Greg Stein, <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I say just move to a vote and stop the second-guessing. GNutt seems
> > > on-board. Let them get their stuff done.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 5:23 PM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Might be less risk and disruption for a few experienced ASF folks to
> go
> > > > "live amongst" the NuttX folks where they are now and verify that
> that
> > > the
> > > > founder's authority and reputation will not result in a BDFL effect.
> > > >
> > > > Just a thought,
> > > > -Alex
> > > >
> > > > On 12/2/19, 12:48 PM, "Ted Dunning" <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Very well said.
> > > >
> > > > I am optimistic.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 9:26 PM Gregory Nutt <spudaneco@gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > This is a good discussion to have had before entering the
> > > > incubator, and
> > > > > I'm satisfied that the intent is good, and the podling can
> > > > demonstrate
> > > > > during incubation that the founder will in fact step back and
> > allow
> > > > the
> > > > > project to move forward without the founder's undue influence.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Note that it's fine for the founder to continue to work on
> the
> > > > project,
> > > > > but in a different role.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been standing back and not getting deeply involved with
> > this
> > > > > discussion because it pertains too closely to me. It is my
> > > > intention to
> > > > > divest myself of total authority over the project just as
> stated
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > Proposal. Further, it is my intention to stay out of the
> initial
> > > > > formation of the project as much as possible, in partial
> > > fulfillment
> > > > of
> > > > > Ted Dunning's "thought experiment." I intend to vote 0 on all
> > > > decisions
> > > > > before the PPMC -- unless, I suppose, I had some very strong
> > > opinion
> > > > > about some topic. I cannot imagine what topic that might be,
> > > > however.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will be available as needed for information needed by the
> > others
> > > to
> > > > > accomplish this transition but for the most part, just consider
> > me
> > > > as on
> > > > > vacation in place. I will help as much as needed and stay out
> of
> > > the
> > > > > way as much as possible.
> > > > >
> > > > > I suppose I should say a little more about my motivations in
> > this.
> > > > > Without some understanding, is is reasonable to be skeptical.
> > Yes,
> > > > the
> > > > > project is very dear to me and the result of many years of
> blood,
> > > > sweat,
> > > > > and tears and years of work mostly done alone for crazy long
> > hours.
> > > > > Being a "benevolent dictator" does not proper describe my past
> > role
> > > > > because I was the ONLY person on the project. I did
> > everything. I
> > > > > still do.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are two things that motivate me: First, the workload has
> > > > gotten
> > > > > to be far too much for one person. I dispose of around 60-100
> > > > changes
> > > > > per week and really have no personal life left. It is more
> than
> > I
> > > > can
> > > > > do (and much more than I can do well). The only real way to
> > solve
> > > > that
> > > > > is to open the project up to others working as equals. The
> > second,
> > > > and
> > > > > more important, motivation is the I am closing in on 70 years
> old
> > > > now.
> > > > > I retired 8 retires ago and I cannot realistically control this
> > > > project
> > > > > long into the future. For my personal health and sanity, I
> > really
> > > > need
> > > > > to detach and let the project take a life of its own that does
> > not
> > > > > depend on me in any way.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would see the biggest risk to a new PPMC would not be me, but
> > > > rather
> > > > > the sheer volume of work that the PPMC is stepping into. I am
> > > > prepared
> > > > > for some initial chaos and perhaps a missed release cycle.
> But I
> > > > have
> > > > > come to accept that that is a reasonable price to pay for a
> clean
> > > > > knife-edge hand-off.
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org>.
Sounds like most of concerns are addressed through the discussion.
Just like Justin said, we will call the vote once one or two mentor get
volunteer here.
Ted and Dave, why not watch how project is going as mentor and make sure it
follow Apache way if you got time and interest for the project.:)
Thanks,
Junping
Justin Mclean <ju...@gmail.com>于2019年12月3日 周二上午8:43写道：
> Hi,
> As soon as an additional mentors or two are identified I would call for a
> vote.
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> On Tue, 3 Dec 2019, 10:39 Greg Stein, <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I say just move to a vote and stop the second-guessing. GNutt seems
> > on-board. Let them get their stuff done.
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 5:23 PM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Might be less risk and disruption for a few experienced ASF folks to go
> > > "live amongst" the NuttX folks where they are now and verify that that
> > the
> > > founder's authority and reputation will not result in a BDFL effect.
> > >
> > > Just a thought,
> > > -Alex
> > >
> > > On 12/2/19, 12:48 PM, "Ted Dunning" <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Very well said.
> > >
> > > I am optimistic.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 9:26 PM Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > This is a good discussion to have had before entering the
> > > incubator, and
> > > > I'm satisfied that the intent is good, and the podling can
> > > demonstrate
> > > > during incubation that the founder will in fact step back and
> allow
> > > the
> > > > project to move forward without the founder's undue influence.
> > > > >
> > > > > Note that it's fine for the founder to continue to work on the
> > > project,
> > > > but in a different role.
> > > >
> > > > I have been standing back and not getting deeply involved with
> this
> > > > discussion because it pertains too closely to me. It is my
> > > intention to
> > > > divest myself of total authority over the project just as stated
> in
> > > the
> > > > Proposal. Further, it is my intention to stay out of the initial
> > > > formation of the project as much as possible, in partial
> > fulfillment
> > > of
> > > > Ted Dunning's "thought experiment." I intend to vote 0 on all
> > > decisions
> > > > before the PPMC -- unless, I suppose, I had some very strong
> > opinion
> > > > about some topic. I cannot imagine what topic that might be,
> > > however.
> > > >
> > > > I will be available as needed for information needed by the
> others
> > to
> > > > accomplish this transition but for the most part, just consider
> me
> > > as on
> > > > vacation in place. I will help as much as needed and stay out of
> > the
> > > > way as much as possible.
> > > >
> > > > I suppose I should say a little more about my motivations in
> this.
> > > > Without some understanding, is is reasonable to be skeptical.
> Yes,
> > > the
> > > > project is very dear to me and the result of many years of blood,
> > > sweat,
> > > > and tears and years of work mostly done alone for crazy long
> hours.
> > > > Being a "benevolent dictator" does not proper describe my past
> role
> > > > because I was the ONLY person on the project. I did
> everything. I
> > > > still do.
> > > >
> > > > There are two things that motivate me: First, the workload has
> > > gotten
> > > > to be far too much for one person. I dispose of around 60-100
> > > changes
> > > > per week and really have no personal life left. It is more than
> I
> > > can
> > > > do (and much more than I can do well). The only real way to
> solve
> > > that
> > > > is to open the project up to others working as equals. The
> second,
> > > and
> > > > more important, motivation is the I am closing in on 70 years old
> > > now.
> > > > I retired 8 retires ago and I cannot realistically control this
> > > project
> > > > long into the future. For my personal health and sanity, I
> really
> > > need
> > > > to detach and let the project take a life of its own that does
> not
> > > > depend on me in any way.
> > > >
> > > > I would see the biggest risk to a new PPMC would not be me, but
> > > rather
> > > > the sheer volume of work that the PPMC is stepping into. I am
> > > prepared
> > > > for some initial chaos and perhaps a missed release cycle. But I
> > > have
> > > > come to accept that that is a reasonable price to pay for a clean
> > > > knife-edge hand-off.
> > > >
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
As soon as an additional mentors or two are identified I would call for a
vote.
Thanks,
Justin
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019, 10:39 Greg Stein, <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I say just move to a vote and stop the second-guessing. GNutt seems
> on-board. Let them get their stuff done.
>
> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 5:23 PM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > Might be less risk and disruption for a few experienced ASF folks to go
> > "live amongst" the NuttX folks where they are now and verify that that
> the
> > founder's authority and reputation will not result in a BDFL effect.
> >
> > Just a thought,
> > -Alex
> >
> > On 12/2/19, 12:48 PM, "Ted Dunning" <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Very well said.
> >
> > I am optimistic.
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 9:26 PM Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > This is a good discussion to have had before entering the
> > incubator, and
> > > I'm satisfied that the intent is good, and the podling can
> > demonstrate
> > > during incubation that the founder will in fact step back and allow
> > the
> > > project to move forward without the founder's undue influence.
> > > >
> > > > Note that it's fine for the founder to continue to work on the
> > project,
> > > but in a different role.
> > >
> > > I have been standing back and not getting deeply involved with this
> > > discussion because it pertains too closely to me. It is my
> > intention to
> > > divest myself of total authority over the project just as stated in
> > the
> > > Proposal. Further, it is my intention to stay out of the initial
> > > formation of the project as much as possible, in partial
> fulfillment
> > of
> > > Ted Dunning's "thought experiment." I intend to vote 0 on all
> > decisions
> > > before the PPMC -- unless, I suppose, I had some very strong
> opinion
> > > about some topic. I cannot imagine what topic that might be,
> > however.
> > >
> > > I will be available as needed for information needed by the others
> to
> > > accomplish this transition but for the most part, just consider me
> > as on
> > > vacation in place. I will help as much as needed and stay out of
> the
> > > way as much as possible.
> > >
> > > I suppose I should say a little more about my motivations in this.
> > > Without some understanding, is is reasonable to be skeptical. Yes,
> > the
> > > project is very dear to me and the result of many years of blood,
> > sweat,
> > > and tears and years of work mostly done alone for crazy long hours.
> > > Being a "benevolent dictator" does not proper describe my past role
> > > because I was the ONLY person on the project. I did everything. I
> > > still do.
> > >
> > > There are two things that motivate me: First, the workload has
> > gotten
> > > to be far too much for one person. I dispose of around 60-100
> > changes
> > > per week and really have no personal life left. It is more than I
> > can
> > > do (and much more than I can do well). The only real way to solve
> > that
> > > is to open the project up to others working as equals. The second,
> > and
> > > more important, motivation is the I am closing in on 70 years old
> > now.
> > > I retired 8 retires ago and I cannot realistically control this
> > project
> > > long into the future. For my personal health and sanity, I really
> > need
> > > to detach and let the project take a life of its own that does not
> > > depend on me in any way.
> > >
> > > I would see the biggest risk to a new PPMC would not be me, but
> > rather
> > > the sheer volume of work that the PPMC is stepping into. I am
> > prepared
> > > for some initial chaos and perhaps a missed release cycle. But I
> > have
> > > come to accept that that is a reasonable price to pay for a clean
> > > knife-edge hand-off.
> > >
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
I say just move to a vote and stop the second-guessing. GNutt seems
on-board. Let them get their stuff done.
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 5:23 PM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid> wrote:
> Might be less risk and disruption for a few experienced ASF folks to go
> "live amongst" the NuttX folks where they are now and verify that that the
> founder's authority and reputation will not result in a BDFL effect.
>
> Just a thought,
> -Alex
>
> On 12/2/19, 12:48 PM, "Ted Dunning" <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Very well said.
>
> I am optimistic.
>
> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 9:26 PM Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > > This is a good discussion to have had before entering the
> incubator, and
> > I'm satisfied that the intent is good, and the podling can
> demonstrate
> > during incubation that the founder will in fact step back and allow
> the
> > project to move forward without the founder's undue influence.
> > >
> > > Note that it's fine for the founder to continue to work on the
> project,
> > but in a different role.
> >
> > I have been standing back and not getting deeply involved with this
> > discussion because it pertains too closely to me. It is my
> intention to
> > divest myself of total authority over the project just as stated in
> the
> > Proposal. Further, it is my intention to stay out of the initial
> > formation of the project as much as possible, in partial fulfillment
> of
> > Ted Dunning's "thought experiment." I intend to vote 0 on all
> decisions
> > before the PPMC -- unless, I suppose, I had some very strong opinion
> > about some topic. I cannot imagine what topic that might be,
> however.
> >
> > I will be available as needed for information needed by the others to
> > accomplish this transition but for the most part, just consider me
> as on
> > vacation in place. I will help as much as needed and stay out of the
> > way as much as possible.
> >
> > I suppose I should say a little more about my motivations in this.
> > Without some understanding, is is reasonable to be skeptical. Yes,
> the
> > project is very dear to me and the result of many years of blood,
> sweat,
> > and tears and years of work mostly done alone for crazy long hours.
> > Being a "benevolent dictator" does not proper describe my past role
> > because I was the ONLY person on the project. I did everything. I
> > still do.
> >
> > There are two things that motivate me: First, the workload has
> gotten
> > to be far too much for one person. I dispose of around 60-100
> changes
> > per week and really have no personal life left. It is more than I
> can
> > do (and much more than I can do well). The only real way to solve
> that
> > is to open the project up to others working as equals. The second,
> and
> > more important, motivation is the I am closing in on 70 years old
> now.
> > I retired 8 retires ago and I cannot realistically control this
> project
> > long into the future. For my personal health and sanity, I really
> need
> > to detach and let the project take a life of its own that does not
> > depend on me in any way.
> >
> > I would see the biggest risk to a new PPMC would not be me, but
> rather
> > the sheer volume of work that the PPMC is stepping into. I am
> prepared
> > for some initial chaos and perhaps a missed release cycle. But I
> have
> > come to accept that that is a reasonable price to pay for a clean
> > knife-edge hand-off.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.INVALID>.
Might be less risk and disruption for a few experienced ASF folks to go "live amongst" the NuttX folks where they are now and verify that that the founder's authority and reputation will not result in a BDFL effect.
Just a thought,
-Alex
On 12/2/19, 12:48 PM, "Ted Dunning" <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
Very well said.
I am optimistic.
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 9:26 PM Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This is a good discussion to have had before entering the incubator, and
> I'm satisfied that the intent is good, and the podling can demonstrate
> during incubation that the founder will in fact step back and allow the
> project to move forward without the founder's undue influence.
> >
> > Note that it's fine for the founder to continue to work on the project,
> but in a different role.
>
> I have been standing back and not getting deeply involved with this
> discussion because it pertains too closely to me. It is my intention to
> divest myself of total authority over the project just as stated in the
> Proposal. Further, it is my intention to stay out of the initial
> formation of the project as much as possible, in partial fulfillment of
> Ted Dunning's "thought experiment." I intend to vote 0 on all decisions
> before the PPMC -- unless, I suppose, I had some very strong opinion
> about some topic. I cannot imagine what topic that might be, however.
>
> I will be available as needed for information needed by the others to
> accomplish this transition but for the most part, just consider me as on
> vacation in place. I will help as much as needed and stay out of the
> way as much as possible.
>
> I suppose I should say a little more about my motivations in this.
> Without some understanding, is is reasonable to be skeptical. Yes, the
> project is very dear to me and the result of many years of blood, sweat,
> and tears and years of work mostly done alone for crazy long hours.
> Being a "benevolent dictator" does not proper describe my past role
> because I was the ONLY person on the project. I did everything. I
> still do.
>
> There are two things that motivate me: First, the workload has gotten
> to be far too much for one person. I dispose of around 60-100 changes
> per week and really have no personal life left. It is more than I can
> do (and much more than I can do well). The only real way to solve that
> is to open the project up to others working as equals. The second, and
> more important, motivation is the I am closing in on 70 years old now.
> I retired 8 retires ago and I cannot realistically control this project
> long into the future. For my personal health and sanity, I really need
> to detach and let the project take a life of its own that does not
> depend on me in any way.
>
> I would see the biggest risk to a new PPMC would not be me, but rather
> the sheer volume of work that the PPMC is stepping into. I am prepared
> for some initial chaos and perhaps a missed release cycle. But I have
> come to accept that that is a reasonable price to pay for a clean
> knife-edge hand-off.
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Very well said.
I am optimistic.
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 9:26 PM Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This is a good discussion to have had before entering the incubator, and
> I'm satisfied that the intent is good, and the podling can demonstrate
> during incubation that the founder will in fact step back and allow the
> project to move forward without the founder's undue influence.
> >
> > Note that it's fine for the founder to continue to work on the project,
> but in a different role.
>
> I have been standing back and not getting deeply involved with this
> discussion because it pertains too closely to me. It is my intention to
> divest myself of total authority over the project just as stated in the
> Proposal. Further, it is my intention to stay out of the initial
> formation of the project as much as possible, in partial fulfillment of
> Ted Dunning's "thought experiment." I intend to vote 0 on all decisions
> before the PPMC -- unless, I suppose, I had some very strong opinion
> about some topic. I cannot imagine what topic that might be, however.
>
> I will be available as needed for information needed by the others to
> accomplish this transition but for the most part, just consider me as on
> vacation in place. I will help as much as needed and stay out of the
> way as much as possible.
>
> I suppose I should say a little more about my motivations in this.
> Without some understanding, is is reasonable to be skeptical. Yes, the
> project is very dear to me and the result of many years of blood, sweat,
> and tears and years of work mostly done alone for crazy long hours.
> Being a "benevolent dictator" does not proper describe my past role
> because I was the ONLY person on the project. I did everything. I
> still do.
>
> There are two things that motivate me: First, the workload has gotten
> to be far too much for one person. I dispose of around 60-100 changes
> per week and really have no personal life left. It is more than I can
> do (and much more than I can do well). The only real way to solve that
> is to open the project up to others working as equals. The second, and
> more important, motivation is the I am closing in on 70 years old now.
> I retired 8 retires ago and I cannot realistically control this project
> long into the future. For my personal health and sanity, I really need
> to detach and let the project take a life of its own that does not
> depend on me in any way.
>
> I would see the biggest risk to a new PPMC would not be me, but rather
> the sheer volume of work that the PPMC is stepping into. I am prepared
> for some initial chaos and perhaps a missed release cycle. But I have
> come to accept that that is a reasonable price to pay for a clean
> knife-edge hand-off.
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com>.
> This is a good discussion to have had before entering the incubator, and I'm satisfied that the intent is good, and the podling can demonstrate during incubation that the founder will in fact step back and allow the project to move forward without the founder's undue influence.
>
> Note that it's fine for the founder to continue to work on the project, but in a different role.
I have been standing back and not getting deeply involved with this
discussion because it pertains too closely to me. It is my intention to
divest myself of total authority over the project just as stated in the
Proposal. Further, it is my intention to stay out of the initial
formation of the project as much as possible, in partial fulfillment of
Ted Dunning's "thought experiment." I intend to vote 0 on all decisions
before the PPMC -- unless, I suppose, I had some very strong opinion
about some topic. I cannot imagine what topic that might be, however.
I will be available as needed for information needed by the others to
accomplish this transition but for the most part, just consider me as on
vacation in place. I will help as much as needed and stay out of the
way as much as possible.
I suppose I should say a little more about my motivations in this.
Without some understanding, is is reasonable to be skeptical. Yes, the
project is very dear to me and the result of many years of blood, sweat,
and tears and years of work mostly done alone for crazy long hours.
Being a "benevolent dictator" does not proper describe my past role
because I was the ONLY person on the project. I did everything. I
still do.
There are two things that motivate me: First, the workload has gotten
to be far too much for one person. I dispose of around 60-100 changes
per week and really have no personal life left. It is more than I can
do (and much more than I can do well). The only real way to solve that
is to open the project up to others working as equals. The second, and
more important, motivation is the I am closing in on 70 years old now.
I retired 8 retires ago and I cannot realistically control this project
long into the future. For my personal health and sanity, I really need
to detach and let the project take a life of its own that does not
depend on me in any way.
I would see the biggest risk to a new PPMC would not be me, but rather
the sheer volume of work that the PPMC is stepping into. I am prepared
for some initial chaos and perhaps a missed release cycle. But I have
come to accept that that is a reasonable price to pay for a clean
knife-edge hand-off.
Greg
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RE: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by "Jerpelea, Alin" <Al...@sony.com>.
My concerns are already addressed
Alin
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>
Sent: den 3 december 2019 05:19
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
My concerns are addressed as well.
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 8:11 PM Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi -
>
> My concerns have been addressed. I think we can proceed with the VOTE.
> I intend to be +1(binding)
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> > On Dec 2, 2019, at 11:08 AM, Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > IPMC hat on...
> >
> >> On Dec 2, 2019, at 2:05 AM, 张铎(Duo Zhang) <pa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch> 于2019年12月2日周一
> 下午4:24写道：
> >>
> >>> On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 3:20 PM 张铎(Duo Zhang)
> >>> <pa...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> ...IMO, the name 'NuttX' is a kudos to Gregory Nutt, who has been
> >>>> developing and maintaining the project for 15 years...
> >>>
> >>> I'm fine with having such a name for historical reasons and I
> >>> agree that it's nice to recognize the hard work of the project's creator.
> >>>
> >>>> ...No matter what is the name, he will be the center of the
> project....
> >>>
> >>> Having someone be THE center of an Apache project is not ok, our
> >>> projects are governed by their PMCs.
> >>>
> >> Yes, I agree. What I say is abount the current state, when we just
> >> enter the incubator, no doubt Greg will still be the center, as he
> >> has been holding the project for 15 years, changing the name can
> >> not change this fact...
> >>
> >>>
> >>> But as I just said in my reply to Ted about the bus factor, IMO
> >>> that's something that can be sorted out during incubation,
> >>> especially if the project's current "benevolent dictator"
> >>> expressly mentions a desire to step down from that role.
> >>>
> >> Yes. Thank you very much. This is something that needs to be
> >> addressed during the incubating time. At least, Greg said in this
> >> thread that he
> is
> >> willing to give up control, let's see if this could come to true.
> >
> > This is a good discussion to have had before entering the incubator,
> > and
> I'm satisfied that the intent is good, and the podling can demonstrate
> during incubation that the founder will in fact step back and allow
> the project to move forward without the founder's undue influence.
> >
> > Note that it's fine for the founder to continue to work on the
> > project,
> but in a different role.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Craig
> >>
> >>>
> >>> -Bertrand
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> --- To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >>> general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> > Craig L Russell
> > clr@apache.org
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
My concerns are addressed as well.
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 8:11 PM Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi -
>
> My concerns have been addressed. I think we can proceed with the VOTE. I
> intend to be +1(binding)
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> > On Dec 2, 2019, at 11:08 AM, Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > IPMC hat on...
> >
> >> On Dec 2, 2019, at 2:05 AM, 张铎(Duo Zhang) <pa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch> 于2019年12月2日周一
> 下午4:24写道：
> >>
> >>> On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 3:20 PM 张铎(Duo Zhang) <pa...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> ...IMO, the name 'NuttX' is a kudos to Gregory Nutt, who has been
> >>>> developing and maintaining the project for 15 years...
> >>>
> >>> I'm fine with having such a name for historical reasons and I agree
> >>> that it's nice to recognize the hard work of the project's creator.
> >>>
> >>>> ...No matter what is the name, he will be the center of the
> project....
> >>>
> >>> Having someone be THE center of an Apache project is not ok, our
> >>> projects are governed by their PMCs.
> >>>
> >> Yes, I agree. What I say is abount the current state, when we just enter
> >> the incubator, no doubt Greg will still be the center, as he has been
> >> holding the project for 15 years, changing the name can not change this
> >> fact...
> >>
> >>>
> >>> But as I just said in my reply to Ted about the bus factor, IMO that's
> >>> something that can be sorted out during incubation, especially if the
> >>> project's current "benevolent dictator" expressly mentions a desire to
> >>> step down from that role.
> >>>
> >> Yes. Thank you very much. This is something that needs to be addressed
> >> during the incubating time. At least, Greg said in this thread that he
> is
> >> willing to give up control, let's see if this could come to true.
> >
> > This is a good discussion to have had before entering the incubator, and
> I'm satisfied that the intent is good, and the podling can demonstrate
> during incubation that the founder will in fact step back and allow the
> project to move forward without the founder's undue influence.
> >
> > Note that it's fine for the founder to continue to work on the project,
> but in a different role.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Craig
> >>
> >>>
> >>> -Bertrand
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> > Craig L Russell
> > clr@apache.org
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org>.
Hi -
My concerns have been addressed. I think we can proceed with the VOTE. I intend to be +1(binding)
Regards,
Dave
> On Dec 2, 2019, at 11:08 AM, Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> IPMC hat on...
>
>> On Dec 2, 2019, at 2:05 AM, 张铎(Duo Zhang) <pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch> 于2019年12月2日周一 下午4:24写道：
>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 3:20 PM 张铎(Duo Zhang) <pa...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ...IMO, the name 'NuttX' is a kudos to Gregory Nutt, who has been
>>>> developing and maintaining the project for 15 years...
>>>
>>> I'm fine with having such a name for historical reasons and I agree
>>> that it's nice to recognize the hard work of the project's creator.
>>>
>>>> ...No matter what is the name, he will be the center of the project....
>>>
>>> Having someone be THE center of an Apache project is not ok, our
>>> projects are governed by their PMCs.
>>>
>> Yes, I agree. What I say is abount the current state, when we just enter
>> the incubator, no doubt Greg will still be the center, as he has been
>> holding the project for 15 years, changing the name can not change this
>> fact...
>>
>>>
>>> But as I just said in my reply to Ted about the bus factor, IMO that's
>>> something that can be sorted out during incubation, especially if the
>>> project's current "benevolent dictator" expressly mentions a desire to
>>> step down from that role.
>>>
>> Yes. Thank you very much. This is something that needs to be addressed
>> during the incubating time. At least, Greg said in this thread that he is
>> willing to give up control, let's see if this could come to true.
>
> This is a good discussion to have had before entering the incubator, and I'm satisfied that the intent is good, and the podling can demonstrate during incubation that the founder will in fact step back and allow the project to move forward without the founder's undue influence.
>
> Note that it's fine for the founder to continue to work on the project, but in a different role.
>
> Regards,
> Craig
>>
>>>
>>> -Bertrand
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>
> Craig L Russell
> clr@apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com>.
IPMC hat on...
> On Dec 2, 2019, at 2:05 AM, 张铎(Duo Zhang) <pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch> 于2019年12月2日周一 下午4:24写道：
>
>> On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 3:20 PM 张铎(Duo Zhang) <pa...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ...IMO, the name 'NuttX' is a kudos to Gregory Nutt, who has been
>>> developing and maintaining the project for 15 years...
>>
>> I'm fine with having such a name for historical reasons and I agree
>> that it's nice to recognize the hard work of the project's creator.
>>
>>> ...No matter what is the name, he will be the center of the project....
>>
>> Having someone be THE center of an Apache project is not ok, our
>> projects are governed by their PMCs.
>>
> Yes, I agree. What I say is abount the current state, when we just enter
> the incubator, no doubt Greg will still be the center, as he has been
> holding the project for 15 years, changing the name can not change this
> fact...
>
>>
>> But as I just said in my reply to Ted about the bus factor, IMO that's
>> something that can be sorted out during incubation, especially if the
>> project's current "benevolent dictator" expressly mentions a desire to
>> step down from that role.
>>
> Yes. Thank you very much. This is something that needs to be addressed
> during the incubating time. At least, Greg said in this thread that he is
> willing to give up control, let's see if this could come to true.
This is a good discussion to have had before entering the incubator, and I'm satisfied that the intent is good, and the podling can demonstrate during incubation that the founder will in fact step back and allow the project to move forward without the founder's undue influence.
Note that it's fine for the founder to continue to work on the project, but in a different role.
Regards,
Craig
>
>>
>> -Bertrand
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
Craig L Russell
clr@apache.org
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by "张铎 (Duo Zhang)" <pa...@gmail.com>.
Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch> 于2019年12月2日周一 下午4:24写道：
> On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 3:20 PM 张铎(Duo Zhang) <pa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > ...IMO, the name 'NuttX' is a kudos to Gregory Nutt, who has been
> > developing and maintaining the project for 15 years...
>
> I'm fine with having such a name for historical reasons and I agree
> that it's nice to recognize the hard work of the project's creator.
>
> > ...No matter what is the name, he will be the center of the project....
>
> Having someone be THE center of an Apache project is not ok, our
> projects are governed by their PMCs.
>
Yes, I agree. What I say is abount the current state, when we just enter
the incubator, no doubt Greg will still be the center, as he has been
holding the project for 15 years, changing the name can not change this
fact...
>
> But as I just said in my reply to Ted about the bus factor, IMO that's
> something that can be sorted out during incubation, especially if the
> project's current "benevolent dictator" expressly mentions a desire to
> step down from that role.
>
Yes. Thank you very much. This is something that needs to be addressed
during the incubating time. At least, Greg said in this thread that he is
willing to give up control, let's see if this could come to true.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 3:20 PM 张铎(Duo Zhang) <pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ...IMO, the name 'NuttX' is a kudos to Gregory Nutt, who has been
> developing and maintaining the project for 15 years...
I'm fine with having such a name for historical reasons and I agree
that it's nice to recognize the hard work of the project's creator.
> ...No matter what is the name, he will be the center of the project....
Having someone be THE center of an Apache project is not ok, our
projects are governed by their PMCs.
But as I just said in my reply to Ted about the bus factor, IMO that's
something that can be sorted out during incubation, especially if the
project's current "benevolent dictator" expressly mentions a desire to
step down from that role.
-Bertrand
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by "张铎 (Duo Zhang)" <pa...@gmail.com>.
I think donating the project to ASF already means Greg will give up
controlling the project by his own, otherwise he could just keep the
project in the current state.
And IMO, the name 'NuttX' is a kudos to Gregory Nutt, who has been
developing and maintaining the project for 15 years. No matter what is the
name, he will be the center of the project. I think the way to make the
project go forward is to follow the Apache way, we set up the PMC, electing
new committers, make decisions by consensus and voting, but not by changing
the name of the project.
Thanks.
Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> 于2019年12月1日周日 下午3:44写道：
> Hi,
>
> > Having a project that seems to have the name of a prominent community
> > member seems to pose a risk that there is a benevolent dictator pattern
> at
> > work here.
>
> Greg is aware of the “no dictators rule" and has already answered this in
> this thread. He willing to hand over responsibilities to the wider
> community and give up his trademark.
>
> Do you think it would be a good idea to change the name of the project?
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> Having a project that seems to have the name of a prominent community
> member seems to pose a risk that there is a benevolent dictator pattern at
> work here.
Greg is aware of the “no dictators rule" and has already answered this in this thread. He willing to hand over responsibilities to the wider community and give up his trademark.
Do you think it would be a good idea to change the name of the project?
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Random uninformed question here.
Having a project that seems to have the name of a prominent community
member seems to pose a risk that there is a benevolent dictator pattern at
work here.
Can somebody comment on this?
The problem would be that this mode of operation is heavily deprecated at
Apache and projects that work this way can have a huge culture shock as a
result.
On Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 5:16 AM Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > ... The problem maybe the stuff on BitBucket other than
> > code, for example, the issues and PRs? I do not think it is easy to
> > transfer these things... Are they important to the project Greg?
>
> I think they are not so important. There are only 18 (nuttx) plus 3
> (apps) on Bitbucket. It would probably be
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com>.
> ... The problem maybe the stuff on BitBucket other than
> code, for example, the issues and PRs? I do not think it is easy to
> transfer these things... Are they important to the project Greg?
I think they are not so important. There are only 18 (nuttx) plus 3
(apps) on Bitbucket. It would probably be simpler to treat these as new
issues. Some are very old, most are feature requests or obscure
problems on specific hardware. None are critical to the health of the OS.
https://bitbucket.org/nuttx/nuttx/issues?status=new&status=open
https://bitbucket.org/nuttx/apps/issues?status=new&status=open
As new issues, I think the PMC should review and dispose of each. Those
that are worth retaining can come into whatever bug tracking the PMC
opts for in Apache. I am assuming that the PMC will have some triage
for issues(?) But that workflow has not yet been agreed upon.
There are another set of issues that I carry in a file call TODO in the
repository. These should all be folded together.
Greg
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by "张铎 (Duo Zhang)" <pa...@gmail.com>.
I think we can transfer the repos to ASF first. As it is possible to use
the disclaimer when making a release in ASF, the transfer should not effect
the old release schedule. And we can make a new branch to do the clean up
work(which may mess the repo up when it is not fully done), and then merge
it back to the development branch. So before the first nasty clean up works
done, we could still make releases based on the old code base which has the
old license, etc.
And I think there is no technical problem for transferring the code base,
the infra team will help? Just mirror the code from bitbucket to ASF
gitbox, and then mirror it to GitHub, then we could start to use GitHub.
And we could even just clone the code to local, and then push it to the ASF
gitbox, no problem. The problem maybe the stuff on BitBucket other than
code, for example, the issues and PRs? I do not think it is easy to
transfer these things... Are they important to the project Greg?
Thanks.
Justin Mclean <ju...@me.com.invalid> 于2019年11月29日周五 下午12:28写道：
> Hi,
>
> > It is our intention to use the Apache GitHub.
>
> Just be aware that you can use git as well and modify the ASF mirror and
> the changes will go to GitHub and vice versa. People don’t have to use
> GitHub if they don’t want to.
>
> > I do have some question about the transition. NuttX is a very active
> project with a large user base. We have to both (1) modify the code base
> to conform to licensing and other requirements, but also (2) continue to
> support the community with quality releases.
>
> I would suggest moving over repos quickly and continuing to make releases
> at the ASF with the work in progress disclaimer. Alternatively you could
> not transfer right away and continue to make a couple of non ASF releases
> while things are put in order in your current bitbucket repos. Up to the
> project to decide.
>
> > I imagine that it will take a month or two to get the GitHub
> repositories ready for prime time.
>
> The physical transfer shouldn’t take that long, fixing up all the headers
> and licenses may take longer but that’s OK when using the work in progress
> disclaimer, you can makes incubating ASF release that don’t fully comply
> with ASF policy when including that disclaimer.
>
> > with changes pulled into the Apache Github until such time that support
> can transition seamlessly to GitHub.
>
> Im not sure how easy that’s going to be, generally infra have made a
> single transfer and I’m not aware of any projects that tried this approach.
> It would require some discussion with infra to see what’s possible here.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
Hi Greg :-)
On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 7:05 AM Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I imagine that it will take a month or two to get the GitHub
> repositories ready for prime time.
> > The physical transfer shouldn’t take that long, fixing up all the
> headers and licenses may take longer but that’s OK when using the work in
> progress disclaimer, you can makes incubating ASF release that don’t fully
> comply with ASF policy when including that disclaimer.
> Yes, releasing with a disclaimer should work and cut the transition
> period down to a few weeks. For that transition time, I am not thinking
> about physically moving the repositories. That should be quick. But
> getting the organization and workflow in place to manage commits will
> take a little time. Everyone is new at this except me and I am the bad
> example.
>
I'd suggest setting a "flag day" and mark the bitbucket repository
read-only, and then clone/push a copy onto gitbox.a.o. It will then sync
over to GitHub, and work can continue with either of those repositories (GH
is easier, but there are a few who don't like the GH T&C, so elect to stick
to gitbox.a.o for work).
You can make "non-Apache" releases as you used to, just based on a
different repository. Then, one day, you can start making Apache releases.
We did this with Subversion, and Apache Subversion. We continued to make
1.6.x Subversion releases (on our old release/distro platform; based on
source in the ASF's repository), and then we started making 1.7.x Apache
Subversion releases. Eventually, our support policy EOL'd the 1.6.x line,
and all releases were just Apache Subversion releases. ... You could follow
the same pattern with NuttX releases, and Apache NuttX releases.
>> with changes pulled into the Apache Github until such time that support
> can transition seamlessly to GitHub.
> > Im not sure how easy that’s going to be, generally infra have made a
> single transfer and I’m not aware of any projects that tried this approach.
> It would require some discussion with infra to see what’s possible here.
>
> If it is not possible to automate this, then changes originated from old
> retiring Bitbucket could be handled as normal PRs. That is not unusual.
>
The Apache Infrastructure team has no tooling to synchronize with
third-party git repositories. We only have tooling to keep gitbox.a.o and
GitHub in sync.
Cheers,
Greg Stein
Infrastructure Administrator, ASF
(and IPMC member)
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com>.
>> I imagine that it will take a month or two to get the GitHub repositories ready for prime time.
> The physical transfer shouldn’t take that long, fixing up all the headers and licenses may take longer but that’s OK when using the work in progress disclaimer, you can makes incubating ASF release that don’t fully comply with ASF policy when including that disclaimer.
Yes, releasing with a disclaimer should work and cut the transition
period down to a few weeks. For that transition time, I am not thinking
about physically moving the repositories. That should be quick. But
getting the organization and workflow in place to manage commits will
take a little time. Everyone is new at this except me and I am the bad
example.
>
>> with changes pulled into the Apache Github until such time that support can transition seamlessly to GitHub.
> Im not sure how easy that’s going to be, generally infra have made a single transfer and I’m not aware of any projects that tried this approach. It would require some discussion with infra to see what’s possible here.
If it is not possible to automate this, then changes originated from old
retiring Bitbucket could be handled as normal PRs. That is not unusual.
Greg
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@me.com.INVALID>.
Hi,
> It is our intention to use the Apache GitHub.
Just be aware that you can use git as well and modify the ASF mirror and the changes will go to GitHub and vice versa. People don’t have to use GitHub if they don’t want to.
> I do have some question about the transition. NuttX is a very active project with a large user base. We have to both (1) modify the code base to conform to licensing and other requirements, but also (2) continue to support the community with quality releases.
I would suggest moving over repos quickly and continuing to make releases at the ASF with the work in progress disclaimer. Alternatively you could not transfer right away and continue to make a couple of non ASF releases while things are put in order in your current bitbucket repos. Up to the project to decide.
> I imagine that it will take a month or two to get the GitHub repositories ready for prime time.
The physical transfer shouldn’t take that long, fixing up all the headers and licenses may take longer but that’s OK when using the work in progress disclaimer, you can makes incubating ASF release that don’t fully comply with ASF policy when including that disclaimer.
> with changes pulled into the Apache Github until such time that support can transition seamlessly to GitHub.
Im not sure how easy that’s going to be, generally infra have made a single transfer and I’m not aware of any projects that tried this approach. It would require some discussion with infra to see what’s possible here.
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com>.
Hello,
It is our intention to use the Apache GitHub. I have been using
Bitbucket for a few years and have resisted moving to GitHub. I like
Bitbucket only because I know how to use it (My favorite tools are
always the ones I know how to use). But GitHub is the plan of record if
NuttX is accepted as a podling.
I do have some question about the transition. NuttX is a very active
project with a large user base. We have to both (1) modify the code
base to conform to licensing and other requirements, but also (2)
continue to support the community with quality releases. I imagine that
it will take a month or two to get the GitHub repositories ready for
prime time. During that time, I think that the Bitbucket/BSD
repositories should continue with business as usual with changes pulled
into the Apache Github until such time that support can transition
seamlessly to GitHub.
Does that seem reasonable? We may be somewhat different from other
podlings because of the state and maturity of the code.
Greg
On 11/28/2019 9:04 PM, Justin Mclean wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Over on the google groups I saw some comments about the use of GitHub. While most ASF projects have moved that way it not a requirement to use. You could use svn [1] or git at Apache and be hosted on the ASF servers. You can even be hosted at the ASF and on GitHub [1]. Committers are not forced to use GitHub if they don't want to. Staying at bitbucket is probably not an option, but you could talk to Infra to see if it was possible.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. https://svn.apache.org/viewvc
> 2. https://gitbox.apache.org
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
Over on the google groups I saw some comments about the use of GitHub. While most ASF projects have moved that way it not a requirement to use. You could use svn [1] or git at Apache and be hosted on the ASF servers. You can even be hosted at the ASF and on GitHub [1]. Committers are not forced to use GitHub if they don't want to. Staying at bitbucket is probably not an option, but you could talk to Infra to see if it was possible.
Thanks,
Justin
1. https://svn.apache.org/viewvc
2. https://gitbox.apache.org
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org>.
I have added two mentors (based on volunteer at email threads) and more
initial committers (based on Gregory Nutt's update) into the proposal.
Please comment if any other concerns.
Thanks,
Junping
张铎(Duo Zhang) <pa...@gmail.com> 于2019年11月27日周三 下午4:13写道：
> OK, good.
>
> So the remaining issues for joining the incubator are:
>
> 1. Get more initial committers.
> 2. Besides you, get two more mentors.
>
> Will start working on resolve them.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> 于2019年11月27日周三 下午2:23写道：
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > > Hi, Justin, do these works need to be done before joining the
> incubator,
> > or
> > > we could do this during the incubating time, before we make the first
> > > official release under the governance of ASF?
> >
> > Neither. They need to be made before you graduate, so you have plenty of
> > time to work on them once you join the incubator.
> >
> > If you use the work in progress DISCLAIMER [1] you can make releases that
> > don’t comply with policy while in incubation.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> > 1. https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#disclaimers
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by 俊平堵 <ju...@apache.org>.
Thanks Mohammad for volunteering as mentor here. I have added you and
Justin into the proposal.
Thanks,
Junping
Mohammad Asif Siddiqui <as...@apache.org> 于2019年11月28日周四 下午7:13写道：
> Hi Guyz,
>
> Incase if you are looking for Mentors for this project then I would be
> happy to help the NuttX community in any dimensions I can. Even if your
> mentor list is full then still I can help the community with the release
> activities. Do let me know if you need any help.
>
> Regards
> Asif
> https://github.com/asifdxtreme
> https://asifdxr.netlify.com
>
> On 2019/11/27 08:13:36, 张铎(Duo Zhang) <pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > OK, good.
> >
> > So the remaining issues for joining the incubator are:
> >
> > 1. Get more initial committers.
> > 2. Besides you, get two more mentors.
> >
> > Will start working on resolve them.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> 于2019年11月27日周三 下午2:23写道：
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > > Hi, Justin, do these works need to be done before joining the
> incubator,
> > > or
> > > > we could do this during the incubating time, before we make the first
> > > > official release under the governance of ASF?
> > >
> > > Neither. They need to be made before you graduate, so you have plenty
> of
> > > time to work on them once you join the incubator.
> > >
> > > If you use the work in progress DISCLAIMER [1] you can make releases
> that
> > > don’t comply with policy while in incubation.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Justin
> > >
> > > 1. https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#disclaimers
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Mohammad Asif Siddiqui <as...@apache.org>.
Hi Guyz,
Incase if you are looking for Mentors for this project then I would be happy to help the NuttX community in any dimensions I can. Even if your mentor list is full then still I can help the community with the release activities. Do let me know if you need any help.
Regards
Asif
https://github.com/asifdxtreme
https://asifdxr.netlify.com
On 2019/11/27 08:13:36, 张铎(Duo Zhang) <pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK, good.
>
> So the remaining issues for joining the incubator are:
>
> 1. Get more initial committers.
> 2. Besides you, get two more mentors.
>
> Will start working on resolve them.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> 于2019年11月27日周三 下午2:23写道：
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > > Hi, Justin, do these works need to be done before joining the incubator,
> > or
> > > we could do this during the incubating time, before we make the first
> > > official release under the governance of ASF?
> >
> > Neither. They need to be made before you graduate, so you have plenty of
> > time to work on them once you join the incubator.
> >
> > If you use the work in progress DISCLAIMER [1] you can make releases that
> > don’t comply with policy while in incubation.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> > 1. https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#disclaimers
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by "张铎 (Duo Zhang)" <pa...@gmail.com>.
OK, good.
So the remaining issues for joining the incubator are:
1. Get more initial committers.
2. Besides you, get two more mentors.
Will start working on resolve them.
Thanks.
Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> 于2019年11月27日周三 下午2:23写道：
> Hi,
>
> > Hi, Justin, do these works need to be done before joining the incubator,
> or
> > we could do this during the incubating time, before we make the first
> > official release under the governance of ASF?
>
> Neither. They need to be made before you graduate, so you have plenty of
> time to work on them once you join the incubator.
>
> If you use the work in progress DISCLAIMER [1] you can make releases that
> don’t comply with policy while in incubation.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#disclaimers
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> Hi, Justin, do these works need to be done before joining the incubator, or
> we could do this during the incubating time, before we make the first
> official release under the governance of ASF?
Neither. They need to be made before you graduate, so you have plenty of time to work on them once you join the incubator.
If you use the work in progress DISCLAIMER [1] you can make releases that don’t comply with policy while in incubation.
Thanks,
Justin
1. https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#disclaimers
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by "张铎 (Duo Zhang)" <pa...@gmail.com>.
Hi, Justin, do these works need to be done before joining the incubator, or
we could do this during the incubating time, before we make the first
official release under the governance of ASF?
Thanks.
Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> 于2019年11月27日周三 下午12:21写道：
> Hi,
>
> > The releases were less formal but still very strict. The (old) releases
> were tags in the the repositories. I kept the ReleaseNotes and tarballs on
> on both SourceForge (which NuttX originally started) and on Bitbucket at:
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/nuttx/files/nuttx/ and
> https://bitbucket.org/nuttx/nuttx/downloads/. I kept only the latest
> releases online.
>
> Thanks for the link I took a quick look and can see a couple of things
> that will need to change. Over all it’s in good shape Apache wise other
> only a few minor issue, there's two compiled files, I did notice one GPL
> licensed bit of software (./tools/mkimage.sh), three other files (READMEs)
> refer to free software which would need to be checked. You'll need to come
> up with a way of only replacing the right headers and the licensing is
> going to take a some effort to put together as I could count 160 odd
> distinct copyright owners in the release. There are tools to help with this
> but there’s going to be some manual boring work required. Given the number
> of 3rd party licenses there might be something in there that’s not
> compatible with the ALv2.
>
> > It also occurs to me that that there are a few non-standard BSD licenses
> from silicon vendors. They have four clauses, the standard three plus one
> that states that the code can only be used on the vendor's silicon. For me
> that is not an issue because the code is hardware specific and applies only
> to the vendor's silicon anyway. So it states only the obvious. But I
> should mention that too.
>
> That could be an issue as that’s going to be a restriction of use on top
> of the ALv2, however you could do what Mynewt did and ask the vendor(s) to
> change the license (they mostly did), find the same or similar code under
> another license, or treat it as an optional as not all users are going to
> require it.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
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>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> The releases were less formal but still very strict. The (old) releases were tags in the the repositories. I kept the ReleaseNotes and tarballs on on both SourceForge (which NuttX originally started) and on Bitbucket at: https://sourceforge.net/projects/nuttx/files/nuttx/ and https://bitbucket.org/nuttx/nuttx/downloads/. I kept only the latest releases online.
Thanks for the link I took a quick look and can see a couple of things that will need to change. Over all it’s in good shape Apache wise other only a few minor issue, there's two compiled files, I did notice one GPL licensed bit of software (./tools/mkimage.sh), three other files (READMEs) refer to free software which would need to be checked. You'll need to come up with a way of only replacing the right headers and the licensing is going to take a some effort to put together as I could count 160 odd distinct copyright owners in the release. There are tools to help with this but there’s going to be some manual boring work required. Given the number of 3rd party licenses there might be something in there that’s not compatible with the ALv2.
> It also occurs to me that that there are a few non-standard BSD licenses from silicon vendors. They have four clauses, the standard three plus one that states that the code can only be used on the vendor's silicon. For me that is not an issue because the code is hardware specific and applies only to the vendor's silicon anyway. So it states only the obvious. But I should mention that too.
That could be an issue as that’s going to be a restriction of use on top of the ALv2, however you could do what Mynewt did and ask the vendor(s) to change the license (they mostly did), find the same or similar code under another license, or treat it as an optional as not all users are going to require it.
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com>.
Hi, Justin,
> Where do you currently place releases? Your release process is likely to need to change as at the ASF releases are made by the (P)PMC voting on them, and in the case of incubating projects the IPMC voting on them before they can be released.
Yes, I have been following general@incubator.apache.org for a week or so
now so I can see there there are differences. The releases I did were
still a substantial amount of work. I did releases once every two
months. Most of the work was developing readable, functional
descriptions of changes from GIT history. The project is very active.
In a 2-3 month time period, there will be 1000-3000 commits so that is a
huge effort.
The releases were less formal but still very strict. The (old) releases
were tags in the the repositories. I kept the ReleaseNotes and tarballs
on on both SourceForge (which NuttX originally started) and on Bitbucket
at: https://sourceforge.net/projects/nuttx/files/nuttx/ and
https://bitbucket.org/nuttx/nuttx/downloads/. I kept only the latest
releases online.
>
>> There are a few, very old 4-clause BSD files in the C library (leveraged from old, old BSD C library files).
> Given the University of California, Berkeley rescinded the 4 clause BSD licenses these files should be OK. [5] I’ll see if I can track down the Apache Mynewt discussion about that.
Then we should be in good shape.
It also occurs to me that that there are a few non-standard BSD licenses
from silicon vendors. They have four clauses, the standard three plus
one that states that the code can only be used on the vendor's silicon.
For me that is not an issue because the code is hardware specific and
applies only to the vendor's silicon anyway. So it states only the
obvious. But I should mention that too.
> Given you have compatible licenses what was the issue? Just the perceived complexity of the ALv2 license you mentioned or another issue? Mynewt had some quite complex licensing issues to sort out that required a number of different approaches, but is a good example of what can be done.
Probably my lack of understanding of Apache license at the time.
Greg
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 2:56 AM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
> ...It might be OK with just a software grant from you if are the
> copyright owner. Any other IPMC member have an opinion?...
I think when Groovy joined Apache a few of its community members
signed the software grant "on behalf of the Groovy community" or
something like that.
We have the details in our archives, and I think that might be an option here.
-Bertrand
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi Greg,
Nice to meet you and thanks for your answers.
> Some of the files are so old that it may not be possible to even contact all of the authors. I am the committer on all files and also listed as the author in the CM systems up to a few years ago (other people are given credit only in ChangeLogs and ReleaseNotes). Most have given copyright rights to me. Is it the author, the committer, or the copyright holder that matters here?
It’s generally preferred that ICLAs from all major contributors are obtained, we’ll need to discuss and work out what’s required here. It might be OK with just a software grant from you if are the copyright owner. Any other IPMC member have an opinion?
People on the initial committer list and any new committers added during incubation will need to sign ICLAs.
> No one but I can commit to the existing repositories so I am the committer of everything. The names are not actually committers, but authors from the git commit --author= argument. In the early years CVS and SVN were used and in the early GIT years, I did not yet know about the --author= option. So you can clearly see when I discovered --author= in the data at: https://bitbucket.org/nuttx/nuttx/addon/bitbucket-graphs/graphs-repo-page#!graph=contributors&uuid=d90bf438-7869-4921-8926-fd25b0901043&type=c&group=weeks Maybe around 2015?
I probably should have used the word contributor rather than committer, it would be expected that you start out with more than three initial committers. These people also form the PPMC (podling project management committee). Once you graduate to a top level project you form a PMC that group. Generally that contains people who want to stay on and help with the oversight, community building and direction of the project. 3 people is the absolute minimum for a PPMC/PMC and we really like to see a minimum of 5 people, but there’s no hard rule on this. One possible option would be to ask existing contributors who wants to be a committer on the new project. Note that contribution can also be in forms other than code, for instance creating documentation, speaking at conferences, organising community events, so people who do this should also be considered for the initial list. Having a commit bit means they are committed to the project and not that they are required to contribute or commit code.
> They are aware superficially but I don't think most appreciate the full implications.
IMO It would be good idea to start a conversation about that on your mailing list, include links to about the ASF [1], the Apache Way [2], the Incubator policy [3] and ASF release policy [4]. Your champion can help with this, if they haven't already (I’m not aware of what gone on up to this point so apologies if that’s already happened). These policies may sound bureaucratic to some but are there to support the ASF values. Please emphasise you are not expected to change overnight and be 100% compliant from day one, as long as during the incubating process you make progress everything is good. There is also have a code of conduct [6] that we follow.
I (or others) can join in on that conversation and answer any questions people have if needed. Not to discourage you, but you might want to read about what can go wrong or issue some project can run into [7]. Selecting good mentors will help with a lot of these potential issues.
> I have done 133 releases of NuttX alone.
Where do you currently place releases? Your release process is likely to need to change as at the ASF releases are made by the (P)PMC voting on them, and in the case of incubating projects the IPMC voting on them before they can be released.
> There are a few, very old 4-clause BSD files in the C library (leveraged from old, old BSD C library files).
Given the University of California, Berkeley rescinded the 4 clause BSD licenses these files should be OK. [5] I’ll see if I can track down the Apache Mynewt discussion about that.
> Don't copyrights have a shelf life like patents?
Yes but it’s a long time, life of author + 70 years from teh published date in most cases. If they are really old (< 1978) it’s probably 95 years from the published date.
> I spoke with the Mynewt folk a couple of years back about incorporating some their IoT components into NuttX a few years back. Licensing was an obstacle then, but times are changing.
Given you have compatible licenses what was the issue? Just the perceived complexity of the ALv2 license you mentioned or another issue? Mynewt had some quite complex licensing issues to sort out that required a number of different approaches, but is a good example of what can be done.
Thanks,
Justin
1. https://community.apache.org/newbiefaq.html
2. https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/ and also http://theapacheway.com
3. https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html
4. http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html
5. ftp://ftp.heise.de/pub/ix/ix_listings/programmierenheute2010/lizenzen/The%20BSD%20License.pdf
6. https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct
7. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/Incubating+Issues
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com>.
Hi, Justin, Duo
>> And on the initial committers, the plan is to invite more people during the
>> incubating time.
> I’d strongly suggest you add more people to that initial list, there’s a chance the proposal may not be accepted by the IPMC because of that, but I’d like to hear what other IPMC members think about that before deciding.
That certainly will not be a problem. There are several long time
contributors who should be (and want to be) on the IPMC but we thought
that three was the better, simpler starting number.
> ... I noticed one other thing in there that NuttX name is trademarked.
> Is the project willing too hand over that trademark to the ASF?
I hold the trademarks and, yes, they will be granted to the ASF as per
the Proposal.
Greg
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> And on the opinion of the community for joining ASF, we have a slack
> channel about how to set up the foundation(it is private...), not sure if
> it is OK to post the message there out, but anyway, since this mailing list
> is public, we can post this thread into the channel, and if there are
> people who have concerns they can show up here.
That a good idea. One of the things that may need to change is to move conversation off that private slack channel and into the open once you start incubating.
> And on the initial committers, the plan is to invite more people during the
> incubating time.
I’d strongly suggest you add more people to that initial list, there’s a chance the proposal may not be accepted by the IPMC because of that, but I’d like to hear what other IPMC members think about that before deciding.
> In the past NuttX has some rules about the architecture,
> coding, etc, but since there is only one committer, you do not need to tell
> these rules to everyone as you can just reject the patch which break the
> rules.
Just because people have a commit bit doesn’t mean they have to commit code, you can apply social rules rather than technological ones, but a RTC (review then commit) workflow process (rather than CTR) is also likely to help here.
> As now we will give more people the commit permission, we want to
> make sure that all the committers know the rules and want to follow the
> rules.
>
> https://bitbucket.org/nuttx/nuttx/src/master/INVIOLABLES.txt
Thanks for that link. I noticed one other thing in there that NuttX name is trademarked. Is the project willing too hand over that trademark to the ASF?
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by "张铎 (Duo Zhang)" <pa...@gmail.com>.
Thanks Justin and Greg. Let me explain more about the committer and
community related questions.
In the past there is only one commiter, who is Gregory Nutt, as you said,
the 'dictator' :) And this is just what we want to change by joining the
ASF. And why we choose ASF rather than other foundations like Linux
Foundation or SPI is because that, we think follow the Apache way can help
keeping the project and community healthy.
And on the opinion of the community for joining ASF, we have a slack
channel about how to set up the foundation(it is private...), not sure if
it is OK to post the message there out, but anyway, since this mailing list
is public, we can post this thread into the channel, and if there are
people who have concerns they can show up here. As Greg said, so far we
haven't heard about any objections, most are positive.
And on the initial committers, the plan is to invite more people during the
incubating time. In the past NuttX has some rules about the architecture,
coding, etc, but since there is only one committer, you do not need to tell
these rules to everyone as you can just reject the patch which break the
rules. As now we will give more people the commit permission, we want to
make sure that all the committers know the rules and want to follow the
rules.
https://bitbucket.org/nuttx/nuttx/src/master/INVIOLABLES.txt
So at the beginning we only added two people who are no doubt know the
rules and want to follow the rules as committers. Later when electing new
committers, we will make sure that they also know the rules and want to
follow the rules. Of course, if you think we'd better have more initial
committers, we could try to get more contributors in.
Thanks.
Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com> 于2019年11月27日周三 上午8:49写道：
> Hi, Justin,
>
> It is good to meet you. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
>
> - Apache has a no dictator rule (friendly or otherwise), given there’s a
> person who may be in that role currently in the project, are they fine
> with giving up control to the rest of the community?
>
> Yes, I am fine with giving up control. I have been doing this for a
> very long time (probably daily for 15 years) and I am perfectly happy
> with others taking the lead. So far all of the people who have been
> interested are of the highest technical caliber and I have complete
> confidence that they can share the leadership roles.
>
> - The contributors may need to sign ICLAs. Given the number of people
> involved and the age of the project, if this ia required, it might be
> difficult.
>
> Some of the files are so old that it may not be possible to even contact
> all of the authors. I am the committer on all files and also listed as
> the author in the CM systems up to a few years ago (other people are
> given credit only in ChangeLogs and ReleaseNotes). Most have given
> copyright rights to me. Is it the author, the committer, or the
> copyright holder that matters here?
>
> - Given the large number of committers, I expected the initial committer
> list to be much larger, have you considered inviting all of the major
> committers?
>
> No one but I can commit to the existing repositories so I am the
> committer of everything. The names are not actually committers, but
> authors from the git commit --author= argument. In the early years CVS
> and SVN were used and in the early GIT years, I did not yet know about
> the --author= option. So you can clearly see when I discovered
> --author= in the data at:
>
> https://bitbucket.org/nuttx/nuttx/addon/bitbucket-graphs/graphs-repo-page#!graph=contributors&uuid=d90bf438-7869-4921-8926-fd25b0901043&type=c&group=weeks
> Maybe around 2015?
>
> - What does the community as a whole think abut this move? I can see
> this here [1], but I was a little surprised there wasn’t more public
> discussion about this. Is there consensus that they want to join the ASF
> and understand what that means?
>
> I have only heard positive things lately. There was some grumbling
> about changing the licenses some time back, but I think we are past
> that. Many people had the mistaken impression that the Apache license in
> some way put more burden on the end-user. The complexity of the
> language used in the license is a barrier to many people.
>
> - Is the community aware of some of the issues they may encounter in
> moving to ASF infrastructure and doing things in an Apache Way? (release
> process usually being the main difference).
>
> They are aware superficially but I don't think most appreciate the full
> implications.
>
> If there were not a full PMC supporting the project then it would be a
> problem for me as well. With the PMC we should be able to share the
> load. I have done 133 releases of NuttX alone. I am hoping to be
> replaced with a more Apache-savvy release manager. I would prefer to be
> this assistant, advisor / helper / mentor on most of the PMC issues.
>
> - I notice you mention BSD-4 cause in you list of licenses, this is
> actually Category X and not compatible with the ALv2 license. However
> if it is what I think it is, it easy to work around (as we did for
> Mynewt).
>
> There are a few, very old 4-clause BSD files in the C library (leveraged
> from old, old BSD C library files). Don't copyrights have a shelf life
> like patents? I am sure that these are too old to be an issue because
> the copyrights have expired anyway. This should be all of them:
>
> $ find . -name *.c | xargs grep " California, Berkeley"
> ./fs/nfs/rpc_clnt.c: * University of California, Berkeley and its
> contributors. 4. Neither the
> ./libs/libc/stdio/legacy_dtoa.c: * California, Berkeley and its
> contributors.
> ./libs/libc/stdio/lib_libdtoa.c: * California, Berkeley and its
> contributors.
> ./libs/libc/stdlib/lib_bsearch.c: * California, Berkeley and
> its contributors.
> ./libs/libc/stdlib/lib_qsort.c: * California, Berkeley and its
> contributors.
>
> $ find . -name *.h | xargs grep " California, Berkeley"
> ./fs/nfs/rpc.h: * California, Berkeley and its contributors.
>
> Six files. That is basically just the RPC logic in NFS client and some
> pieces of the C library. bsearch() and qsort() probably have
> replacements with other licenses. dtoa() probably does not.
>
> If the proposal does come to the Incubator, (and the project thinks I'm
> a good fit), I can help out as a mentor. I‘m mentored a number of IoT
> projects here at Apache, including Mynewt.
>
> That is very good news! Thank for that.
>
> I spoke with the Mynewt folk a couple of years back about incorporating
> some their IoT components into NuttX a few years back. Licensing was an
> obstacle then, but times are changing.
>
> Greg
>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com>.
Hi, Justin,
It is good to meet you. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
- Apache has a no dictator rule (friendly or otherwise), given there’s a
person who may be in that role currently in the project, are they fine
with giving up control to the rest of the community?
Yes, I am fine with giving up control. I have been doing this for a
very long time (probably daily for 15 years) and I am perfectly happy
with others taking the lead. So far all of the people who have been
interested are of the highest technical caliber and I have complete
confidence that they can share the leadership roles.
- The contributors may need to sign ICLAs. Given the number of people
involved and the age of the project, if this ia required, it might be
difficult.
Some of the files are so old that it may not be possible to even contact
all of the authors. I am the committer on all files and also listed as
the author in the CM systems up to a few years ago (other people are
given credit only in ChangeLogs and ReleaseNotes). Most have given
copyright rights to me. Is it the author, the committer, or the
copyright holder that matters here?
- Given the large number of committers, I expected the initial committer
list to be much larger, have you considered inviting all of the major
committers?
No one but I can commit to the existing repositories so I am the
committer of everything. The names are not actually committers, but
authors from the git commit --author= argument. In the early years CVS
and SVN were used and in the early GIT years, I did not yet know about
the --author= option. So you can clearly see when I discovered
--author= in the data at:
https://bitbucket.org/nuttx/nuttx/addon/bitbucket-graphs/graphs-repo-page#!graph=contributors&uuid=d90bf438-7869-4921-8926-fd25b0901043&type=c&group=weeks
Maybe around 2015?
- What does the community as a whole think abut this move? I can see
this here [1], but I was a little surprised there wasn’t more public
discussion about this. Is there consensus that they want to join the ASF
and understand what that means?
I have only heard positive things lately. There was some grumbling
about changing the licenses some time back, but I think we are past
that. Many people had the mistaken impression that the Apache license in
some way put more burden on the end-user. The complexity of the
language used in the license is a barrier to many people.
- Is the community aware of some of the issues they may encounter in
moving to ASF infrastructure and doing things in an Apache Way? (release
process usually being the main difference).
They are aware superficially but I don't think most appreciate the full
implications.
If there were not a full PMC supporting the project then it would be a
problem for me as well. With the PMC we should be able to share the
load. I have done 133 releases of NuttX alone. I am hoping to be
replaced with a more Apache-savvy release manager. I would prefer to be
this assistant, advisor / helper / mentor on most of the PMC issues.
- I notice you mention BSD-4 cause in you list of licenses, this is
actually Category X and not compatible with the ALv2 license. However
if it is what I think it is, it easy to work around (as we did for
Mynewt).
There are a few, very old 4-clause BSD files in the C library (leveraged
from old, old BSD C library files). Don't copyrights have a shelf life
like patents? I am sure that these are too old to be an issue because
the copyrights have expired anyway. This should be all of them:
$ find . -name *.c | xargs grep " California, Berkeley"
./fs/nfs/rpc_clnt.c: * University of California, Berkeley and its
contributors. 4. Neither the
./libs/libc/stdio/legacy_dtoa.c: * California, Berkeley and its
contributors.
./libs/libc/stdio/lib_libdtoa.c: * California, Berkeley and its
contributors.
./libs/libc/stdlib/lib_bsearch.c: * California, Berkeley and
its contributors.
./libs/libc/stdlib/lib_qsort.c: * California, Berkeley and its
contributors.
$ find . -name *.h | xargs grep " California, Berkeley"
./fs/nfs/rpc.h: * California, Berkeley and its contributors.
Six files. That is basically just the RPC logic in NFS client and some
pieces of the C library. bsearch() and qsort() probably have
replacements with other licenses. dtoa() probably does not.
If the proposal does come to the Incubator, (and the project thinks I'm
a good fit), I can help out as a mentor. I‘m mentored a number of IoT
projects here at Apache, including Mynewt.
That is very good news! Thank for that.
I spoke with the Mynewt folk a couple of years back about incorporating
some their IoT components into NuttX a few years back. Licensing was an
obstacle then, but times are changing.
Greg
Re: [DISCUSS] NuttX Proposal
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
Thanks for the interesting proposal.
There's a couple of things I'm curious if the project has considered (list below). Keep in mind while I know of NuttX I’m not part of it’s community or know it well.
- Apache has a no dictator rule (friendly or otherwise), given there’s a person who may be in that role currently in the project, are they fine with giving up control to the rest of the community?
- The contributors may need to sign ICLAs. Given the number of people involved and the age of the project, if this ia required, it might be difficult.
- Given the large number of committers, I expected the initial committer list to be much larger, have you considered inviting all of the major committers?
- What does the community as a whole think abut this move? I can see this here [1], but I was a little surprised there wasn’t more public discussion about this. Is there consensus that they want to join the ASF and understand what that means?
- Is the community aware of some of the issues they may encounter in moving to ASF infrastructure and doing things in an Apache Way? (release process usually being the main difference).
- I notice you mention BSD-4 cause in you list of licenses, this is actually Category X and not compatible with the ALv2 license. However if it is what I think it is, it easy to work around (as we did for Mynewt).
If the proposal does come to the Incubator, (and the project thinks I'm a good fit), I can help out as a mentor. I‘m mentored a number of IoT projects here at Apache, including Mynewt.
Thanks,
Justin
1. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/nuttx/oMf6hD7gFZQ
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