RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?

[mi...@honeywell.com]

People I have talked to who have posted jobs say they get 100's to 1000's 
of resumes, with about 1/3 locally.  I know that 5 years ago I was able to 
get $50/hr from a contract agency (analysts international), but now the rate
they are willing to pay is much less.  Companies are putting a lot of
pressure
on contracting companies to lower their rates.  I would suggest you look 
at Janet Ruhl's site (www.realrates.com) as there is usually some
interesting 
information there about rates and what companies are trying to do to get
them 
lowered.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:Isterin@ciber.com]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:34 PM
To: 'apachep2 '; ''Struts Users Mailing List' '
Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?


Not sure about why all are ranting about this economy, but there are
more
than enough jobs available in IT.  It's qualifications what set the ones
with a job apart from the ones without.  There are still over 100,000
reported unfilled jobs in the IT sector, as well as if you go to
monster.com, jobs.perl.org, and many other sites, you'll see daily
postings
of jobs.  So there are jobs, I guess the question is whether the
developers
we are speaking of are qualified for those jobs.

Ilya

-----Original Message-----
From: apachep2
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Sent: 3/28/03 7:50 AM
Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?

Have you guys ever think of a situation, when a developer loses his job
for a while, he will take whatever contract it is and being paid
whatever the employer will offer? In this economy condition, supply of
developers always exceeds demanding. I see seniors applying for an entry
level job.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:Isterin@ciber.com] 
Sent: March 28, 2003 9:04 AM
To: 'Andrew Hill '; 'Struts Users Mailing List '
Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?

I'm still not understanding why you are having problems believing those
rates?

Here, an average IT employee salary for full time staff employee, is
$30+/hour.  An employer, spends about another 20% on benefits, madical,
dental, etc...  So the employer, really faces about a $36-$40 average
expense on an employee.  Now, if this contract is say 1 year or less,
then
there is a drawback of having someone stay, when they are not needed
after
the work is done.

Now, $40 dollars, is just per employee expense.  Now, each employer has
to
pay FICA tax, for each on staff employee, which is about 15% more.  So
now
were are up to about the $50 round about figure per hour.  Lets see,
then
there is office expenses, etc... so the figure is getting higher and
higher
and that's just the average.

Now, an average rate for a contractor is about $50, which actually saves
the
company money, for outsourcing it, then also allows them to only be
billed
for hours as needed, so if one week there is a break, and no work is
done,
there is no bill, at least some of the time, since as we know,
consultants
always find ways to bill:-)

Now, getting to higher figures of say $75/hour-$150/hour, those are
usually
for expert consultants.  Say, I know people who've written books on the
subject, and they have the credibility to charge that much, etc...  Also
past experience, thorough knowledge of technology, being a core team
developer of this particular technology or similar ranking.  Also, most
of
those rates are for shorter term projects.

I hope this helps you understand this a bit better.  An averag
McDonald's
employee is costing the company about $25/hour, so if the burger flipper
was
smart, he or she would break a deal of $20/hour and call it a day:-)

Ilya


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Hill
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Sent: 3/27/03 9:02 PM
Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?

Half right. :-)

I guess low is a distinctly relative term. Especially when comparing
apples & oranges (or salary & contract) ;->.

Rates here may be low compared to US or UK contract rates (are they
really so high?  - still have trouble believing those figures!), but as
for those in India, Russia, etc... they would get a fraction of the
going rate here, and there are probably folk doing the same stuff
elsewhere who get even less. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Barr [mailto:scott@exergonic.com.au]
Sent: Friday, 28 March 2003 07:44
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?



Yeah, but we both (i think Andrew is an Aussie) live in Australia. Land
of low wages 

Scott
www.exergonic.com.au

On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 06:26, Sterin, Ilya wrote: 
30*3000 is more than your whole entire career earnings?  Where are you
from?
India? Russia?

In US that's an average developer contract salary, and $30/hour is a
charge
that most contractors will laugh at here.

Ilya

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Hill
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Sent: 3/27/03 1:32 AM
Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?

These are USD per HOUR?

Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that!
Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply
by
30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my
whole
working life (4+ years). A lot more...

Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on?

Five weeks holiday??? OT pay???

Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate!

-----Original Message-----
From: Simon Kelly [mailto:kelly@ipe.fzk.de]
Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate?


These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning
company,
for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not
included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate).  The company pays
OT
on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a
week
that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life
balance,
whatver than means :-)

All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds)

Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$
Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$
Grade three (Designer) - 55$
Grade four (Architect) - 90$
Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$

These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from
500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly
week-day/sat --
2*hourly sun).

Contractor have to pay all the insurance and stuff, so I'd dap about
22-40%
on top of each of these + a little extra if your gonna have to live in
an
expensive part of town.

NOTE to the lawer.  It only becomes illegal if it can be proven that we
have
set a level of pay *and* have all agreed to follow this level.  If
you've
been on here long enough, you'd know *noone* ever agrees about
anything!!
=]:0)

Good luck with the job, I hear California is nice this time of year!!

Cheers

Simon


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