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Posted to general@gump.apache.org by Leo Simons <ls...@jicarilla.org> on 2004/04/09 16:34:19 UTC
[RT] Gump from the user perspective
I read the online part of "User Interface Design for Programmers"
(http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000057.html), and
I immediately thought about applying the lessons learned to gump.
The result so far are three wiki pages (would be a bit long for an e-mail):
http://wiki.apache.org/gump/ImaginaryUsers
http://wiki.apache.org/gump/UsageScenarios
http://wiki.apache.org/gump/UserModel
I'm anxious to get feedback :-D
--
cheers,
- Leo Simons
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GumpifiMavenification (was Re: Jakarta Commons Gumpification)
Posted by "Adam R. B. Jack" <aj...@trysybase.com>.
> Yep, theres lots to discuss about this. We could use any pointers you
> can supply,
Any chance you could use your favourite list archive to look for messages
with 'Maven' in the subject for 'gump' and (more historically)
'jakarta-gump'? [I'm not sure if the eyebrowse index is working or not.]
This might be a lot to ask, but we've had a number of good conversations
with Brett Porter on this topic, and I think you'd find them interesting.
[Gak, eyebrowse does seem dorked still, or I'd point you to there one where
I ask about group/artefact ids.]
Please let me know if this is problem, and if so, I'll forward some salient
ones.
>
http://lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump/gump_repo/gump_work/update_jakarta-commons.html
> I notice we already have a few commons projects getting run
> by gump.
More than a few, most if not all, see:
http://lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump/jakarta-commons/index.html#All+Projects
http://lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump/jakarta-commons-sandbox/index.html#All+Projects
I'd like to discuss a migration plan whereby we start exercising more and
more to Maven (or use Maven in parallel to Ant) for Gump, *BUT* without too
much destabilization (since you seen plenty of green there). Perhaps pick
projects with minimal dependencies, and start with them.
regards,
Adam
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Re: Jakarta Commons Gumpification
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Adam R. B. Jack wrote:
>>Hey Bubba,
>>
>>
>
>;-)
>
>
>
>>So I've been reviewing the project.xml files in the Jakarta Commons and
>>I see the gumpRepositoryId tag in them. In some its the projects name in
>>others its just "jakarta". Should this be set to something specific? It
>>seems wierd to have multiple project.xml's with the same gump repository
>>id in them?
>>
>>
>
>I don't know POM, but from a Gump point of view, I believe the name ought
>reference one of these:
>
> http://lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump/repositories.html
>
>
Yes, it looks like these entries should all be "jakarta" for projects in
the Jakarta Commons then.
>I think the contents of the Gump portions of the POMs might be stale. Folks
>generate the GOM (using maven gump) but then often edit by hand, instead of
>regenerating.
>
>I just sent you a message on commons-dev. Hopefully we'll see you back here.
>
>
Yep, theres lots to discuss about this. We could use any pointers you
can supply, I notice we already have a few commons projects getting run
by gump.
http://lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump/gump_repo/gump_work/update_jakarta-commons.html
-Mark
>regards,
>
>Adam
>
>
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>
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Re: Jakarta Commons Gumpification
Posted by "Adam R. B. Jack" <aj...@trysybase.com>.
> Hey Bubba,
;-)
> So I've been reviewing the project.xml files in the Jakarta Commons and
> I see the gumpRepositoryId tag in them. In some its the projects name in
> others its just "jakarta". Should this be set to something specific? It
> seems wierd to have multiple project.xml's with the same gump repository
> id in them?
I don't know POM, but from a Gump point of view, I believe the name ought
reference one of these:
http://lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump/repositories.html
I think the contents of the Gump portions of the POMs might be stale. Folks
generate the GOM (using maven gump) but then often edit by hand, instead of
regenerating.
I just sent you a message on commons-dev. Hopefully we'll see you back here.
regards,
Adam
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Jakarta Commons Gumpification
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Hey Bubba,
So I've been reviewing the project.xml files in the Jakarta Commons and
I see the gumpRepositoryId tag in them. In some its the projects name in
others its just "jakarta". Should this be set to something specific? It
seems wierd to have multiple project.xml's with the same gump repository
id in them?
-Mark
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Re: [RT] Gump from the user perspective
Posted by "Adam R. B. Jack" <aj...@trysybase.com>.
> Adam R. B. Jack wrote:
> > I'm sold on this approach.
>
> for good reference, I'm not :-D. I am not a UI expert in any way, but
> I'm trying to learn a little atm. I'm game for trying stuff ;)
I think I'm at a point where I want to step back, and see the big picture. I
am *finally* tinkering with my first fun contribution to Gump, and I've been
down in the bowels way too long. I want to step back, to re-evaluate, and I
like this as a way to get a fresh perspective.
> alas, Adam, just go write up that imaginary user instead of fixing that
> bug! I found its real difficult, since gump already has real users and
> you don't want to make any of those feel stereotyped :-D
I don't see why not. Better that, than not directly considered. We've
discuss Gumpmeisters, but where is the Gumpmeister view verses the normal
human view? We don't have a separation, and the current output is a cluster
'cos of that. My thought is that this can't harm.
Anyway, I'm going to be playing with DependencyDiagram for a while.
Re-inventing wheels (no doubt) but having fun. So, tinkering with
implementation not being visionary. :)
regards,
Adam
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Re: [RT] Gump from the user perspective
Posted by Leo Simons <ls...@jicarilla.org>.
Adam R. B. Jack wrote:
> I'm sold on this approach.
for good reference, I'm not :-D. I am not a UI expert in any way, but
I'm trying to learn a little atm. I'm game for trying stuff ;)
alas, Adam, just go write up that imaginary user instead of fixing that
bug! I found its real difficult, since gump already has real users and
you don't want to make any of those feel stereotyped :-D
--
cheers,
- Leo Simons
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weblog -- http://leosimons.com/
Component Community -- http://componentplanet.org/
Component Glue -- http://jicarilla.org/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"We started off trying to set up a small anarchist community, but
people wouldn't obey the rules."
-- Alan Bennett
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Re: [RT] Gump from the user perspective
Posted by "Adam R. B. Jack" <aj...@trysybase.com>.
> http://wiki.apache.org/gump/ImaginaryUsers
First thought, you have a powerful/fun imagination. :)
Second thought, damn -- do you find my resume or something? Whew, maybe not,
I'm kinda spread over a few of them. ;-)
Third thought -- yes, why not. At first I felt this was more joke, than a
valuable step, but why not try to get inside the mindset of expected users?
I can accept that.
> http://wiki.apache.org/gump/UsageScenarios
I liked these as measures of usability.
> http://wiki.apache.org/gump/UserModel
I enjoy this total way of looking at the problem, much more end result
centric than feature/fix centric. Nice to get out of the trenches and have
(if not a road map) a vision of the final outcome.
I realize how much I've been limiting myself to what is possible (given my
current state of knowledge of Gump, of Python, and such) and crawling along
at a slow implementation pace. This give the ability to view the future, and
then go off and figure out how to implement it afterwards. I feel there is a
lot more fun in exploring that unknown, and finding solutions to problems,
not just manipulating solutions.
I'm sold on this approach. I say we build on it, and refer to it regularly.
I'll try to add to it (or refine the cases there).
regards
Adam
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