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Posted to dev@lucene.apache.org by Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com> on 2020/08/07 13:28:30 UTC
SOLR-13412 (Make the Lucene Luke module available from a Solr
distribution)
All:
I’m not sure this really makes sense at this point. I’ve outlined the current state on the JIRA. The sort form is:
1> there’s some work currently being done to make the stand-alone Luke app work in the Gradle world.
2> Currently, invoking it is an ant task, it’s not build/distributed. How this will work out in the Gradle build is TBD.
3> I’m not sure trying to make this easily accessible from Solr ("bin/solr luke" or similar) even in the event that the Gradle build creates the entire standalone app adds enough value to make it worth the effort. We have a subset of functionality with the Luke Request Handler, and people who need the deeper dive that Luke provides can download the source and execute the Gradle task.
So I’m thinking of closing the JIRA as “won’t fix”.
Please add comments to the JIRA
Erick
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Re: SOLR-13412 (Make the Lucene Luke module available from a Solr
distribution)
Posted by Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>.
See comments on the JIRA. Short form: let’s not do this.
> On Aug 10, 2020, at 7:47 PM, Tomoko Uchida <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks David, for the information. I agree with Luke - a GUI app which needs Window system - is not inherently suited to a Server application.
>
> > if Docker could run GUI apps
> This reminds me an elasticsearch user once notified us he/she worked on Dockernized Luke. I refused to merge it at that time (the integration had just been ongoing then), but we could revisit it.
> https://github.com/DmitryKey/luke/issues/162
>
> There may be a few options to materialize the goal... the most natural direction is, I think, to improve LukeRequestHandler ;)
> Or, CUI application might be more suitable for some situations (https://github.com/javasoze/clue) ?
> Until we find somewhat sensible ways, I am totally fine with the current way of doing, just download Lucene package and use it.
>
> Tomoko
>
>
> 2020年8月11日(火) 5:37 David Smiley <ds...@apache.org>:
> There's a decent tutorial here: https://sematext.com/blog/solr-plugins-system/
> But it's unclear if a standalone tool like Luke is really sensible as a Solr "plug-in" because it does not "plug-in" to Solr; it does not live within Solr in any way.
>
> It'd be interesting if Docker could run GUI apps or if somehow Luke could run as an Applet or something. Or maybe "java web start" but I thought that technology might be dead.
>
> ~ David Smiley
> Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 8:57 PM Tomoko Uchida <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know anything about Solr packages, is there any guide for plugin developers / maintainers? Also, maybe an official host server for the plugin is needed?
> In general Luke is just an ordinary JAR, all you need is downloading the correct version of it and setting the right classpaths.
> If there is proper documentation and others think it's somewhat beneficial that solr has the "Luke plugin", I'd be happy to add it my todo list (or it'd be perfectly fit for "newdevs", I think).
>
> Tomoko
>
>
> 2020年8月10日(月) 4:39 Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>:
> Tomoko:
>
> Indeed, this is what is behind my question about whether it should be a package for Solr rather than something in the standard distro. The more I think about this, it’s hard to justify it being part of the standard distro rather than a package given that some people find it _very_ useful, but I’d bet that most Solr users don’t even know it exists...
>
> Which means I’ll have to actually _understand_ the package infrastructure… Something about an old dog and new tricks. Siiigggh…
>
> Best,
> Erick
>
> > On Aug 9, 2020, at 2:32 PM, Tomoko Uchida <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > LUCENE-9448
>
>
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Re: SOLR-13412 (Make the Lucene Luke module available from a Solr distribution)
Posted by Tomoko Uchida <to...@gmail.com>.
Thanks David, for the information. I agree with Luke - a GUI app which
needs Window system - is not inherently suited to a Server application.
> if Docker could run GUI apps
This reminds me an elasticsearch user once notified us he/she worked on
Dockernized Luke. I refused to merge it at that time (the integration had
just been ongoing then), but we could revisit it.
https://github.com/DmitryKey/luke/issues/162
There may be a few options to materialize the goal... the most natural
direction is, I think, to improve LukeRequestHandler ;)
Or, CUI application might be more suitable for some situations (
https://github.com/javasoze/clue) ?
Until we find somewhat sensible ways, I am totally fine with the current
way of doing, just download Lucene package and use it.
Tomoko
2020年8月11日(火) 5:37 David Smiley <ds...@apache.org>:
> There's a decent tutorial here:
> https://sematext.com/blog/solr-plugins-system/
> But it's unclear if a standalone tool like Luke is really sensible as a
> Solr "plug-in" because it does not "plug-in" to Solr; it does not live
> within Solr in any way.
>
> It'd be interesting if Docker could run GUI apps or if somehow Luke could
> run as an Applet or something. Or maybe "java web start" but I thought
> that technology might be dead.
>
> ~ David Smiley
> Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 8:57 PM Tomoko Uchida <to...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I don't know anything about Solr packages, is there any guide for plugin
>> developers / maintainers? Also, maybe an official host server for the
>> plugin is needed?
>> In general Luke is just an ordinary JAR, all you need is downloading the
>> correct version of it and setting the right classpaths.
>> If there is proper documentation and others think it's somewhat
>> beneficial that solr has the "Luke plugin", I'd be happy to add it my todo
>> list (or it'd be perfectly fit for "newdevs", I think).
>>
>> Tomoko
>>
>>
>> 2020年8月10日(月) 4:39 Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Tomoko:
>>>
>>> Indeed, this is what is behind my question about whether it should be a
>>> package for Solr rather than something in the standard distro. The more I
>>> think about this, it’s hard to justify it being part of the standard distro
>>> rather than a package given that some people find it _very_ useful, but I’d
>>> bet that most Solr users don’t even know it exists...
>>>
>>> Which means I’ll have to actually _understand_ the package
>>> infrastructure… Something about an old dog and new tricks. Siiigggh…
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Erick
>>>
>>> > On Aug 9, 2020, at 2:32 PM, Tomoko Uchida <
>>> tomoko.uchida.1111@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > LUCENE-9448
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>>>
>>>
Re: SOLR-13412 (Make the Lucene Luke module available from a Solr distribution)
Posted by David Smiley <ds...@apache.org>.
There's a decent tutorial here:
https://sematext.com/blog/solr-plugins-system/
But it's unclear if a standalone tool like Luke is really sensible as a
Solr "plug-in" because it does not "plug-in" to Solr; it does not live
within Solr in any way.
It'd be interesting if Docker could run GUI apps or if somehow Luke could
run as an Applet or something. Or maybe "java web start" but I thought
that technology might be dead.
~ David Smiley
Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 8:57 PM Tomoko Uchida <to...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I don't know anything about Solr packages, is there any guide for plugin
> developers / maintainers? Also, maybe an official host server for the
> plugin is needed?
> In general Luke is just an ordinary JAR, all you need is downloading the
> correct version of it and setting the right classpaths.
> If there is proper documentation and others think it's somewhat beneficial
> that solr has the "Luke plugin", I'd be happy to add it my todo list (or
> it'd be perfectly fit for "newdevs", I think).
>
> Tomoko
>
>
> 2020年8月10日(月) 4:39 Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Tomoko:
>>
>> Indeed, this is what is behind my question about whether it should be a
>> package for Solr rather than something in the standard distro. The more I
>> think about this, it’s hard to justify it being part of the standard distro
>> rather than a package given that some people find it _very_ useful, but I’d
>> bet that most Solr users don’t even know it exists...
>>
>> Which means I’ll have to actually _understand_ the package
>> infrastructure… Something about an old dog and new tricks. Siiigggh…
>>
>> Best,
>> Erick
>>
>> > On Aug 9, 2020, at 2:32 PM, Tomoko Uchida <to...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > LUCENE-9448
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>>
>>
Re: SOLR-13412 (Make the Lucene Luke module available from a Solr distribution)
Posted by Tomoko Uchida <to...@gmail.com>.
I don't know anything about Solr packages, is there any guide for plugin
developers / maintainers? Also, maybe an official host server for the
plugin is needed?
In general Luke is just an ordinary JAR, all you need is downloading the
correct version of it and setting the right classpaths.
If there is proper documentation and others think it's somewhat beneficial
that solr has the "Luke plugin", I'd be happy to add it my todo list (or
it'd be perfectly fit for "newdevs", I think).
Tomoko
2020年8月10日(月) 4:39 Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>:
> Tomoko:
>
> Indeed, this is what is behind my question about whether it should be a
> package for Solr rather than something in the standard distro. The more I
> think about this, it’s hard to justify it being part of the standard distro
> rather than a package given that some people find it _very_ useful, but I’d
> bet that most Solr users don’t even know it exists...
>
> Which means I’ll have to actually _understand_ the package infrastructure…
> Something about an old dog and new tricks. Siiigggh…
>
> Best,
> Erick
>
> > On Aug 9, 2020, at 2:32 PM, Tomoko Uchida <to...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > LUCENE-9448
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>
>
Re: SOLR-13412 (Make the Lucene Luke module available from a Solr
distribution)
Posted by Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>.
Tomoko:
Indeed, this is what is behind my question about whether it should be a package for Solr rather than something in the standard distro. The more I think about this, it’s hard to justify it being part of the standard distro rather than a package given that some people find it _very_ useful, but I’d bet that most Solr users don’t even know it exists...
Which means I’ll have to actually _understand_ the package infrastructure… Something about an old dog and new tricks. Siiigggh…
Best,
Erick
> On Aug 9, 2020, at 2:32 PM, Tomoko Uchida <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> LUCENE-9448
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Re: SOLR-13412 (Make the Lucene Luke module available from a Solr distribution)
Posted by Tomoko Uchida <to...@gmail.com>.
Erick - I commented on LUCENE-9448 (I made a mistake with issue # in
previous comment).
> And if the consensus is that we should consider it a developer’s tool
rather than something we make available to casual users, I can just close
SOLR-13412 as “won’t fix".
I suspect the tool is not for "casual users" :)
Meanwhile, a bit surprisingly to be honest, the old Luke github repo earns
1.4k stars now; seems like a certain number of Solr (and elasticsearch)
users need Luke. Personally I don't think it should be shipped with the
default distribution, but it could be helpful for experienced
users/developers if it can be easily downloaded somehow on demand.
2020年8月8日(土) 20:42 Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>:
> Tomoko:
>
> Agreed. What I’m curious about regardless of LUCENE-9442 is whether
> building/distribution Luke is desirable. It’s not clear to me that we
> _should_ package and distribute Luke with Solr and/or Lucene, It flies in
> the face of the “slimmer faster Solr” effort. OTOH, if it’s a package, the
> work we need to do in Solr is different than if we add it to the distro...
>
> And if the consensus is that we should consider it a developer’s tool
> rather than something we make available to casual users, I can just close
> SOLR-13412 as “won’t fix".
>
> > On Aug 7, 2020, at 11:15 PM, Tomoko Uchida <to...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Erick,
> >
> > > 2> Currently, invoking it is an ant task, it’s not build/distributed.
> How this will work out in the Gradle build is TBD.
> >
> > As for this point, I think we should consider SOLR-13412 and LUCENE-9442
> separately, since the former is about making a distribution package and the
> latter is about providing a helper for developers.
> >
> > Tomoko
> >
> >
> > 2020年8月7日(金) 22:28 Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>:
> > All:
> >
> > I’m not sure this really makes sense at this point. I’ve outlined the
> current state on the JIRA. The sort form is:
> >
> > 1> there’s some work currently being done to make the stand-alone Luke
> app work in the Gradle world.
> >
> > 2> Currently, invoking it is an ant task, it’s not build/distributed.
> How this will work out in the Gradle build is TBD.
> >
> > 3> I’m not sure trying to make this easily accessible from Solr
> ("bin/solr luke" or similar) even in the event that the Gradle build
> creates the entire standalone app adds enough value to make it worth the
> effort. We have a subset of functionality with the Luke Request Handler,
> and people who need the deeper dive that Luke provides can download the
> source and execute the Gradle task.
> >
> > So I’m thinking of closing the JIRA as “won’t fix”.
> >
> > Please add comments to the JIRA
> >
> > Erick
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>
>
Re: SOLR-13412 (Make the Lucene Luke module available from a Solr
distribution)
Posted by Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>.
Tomoko:
Agreed. What I’m curious about regardless of LUCENE-9442 is whether building/distribution Luke is desirable. It’s not clear to me that we _should_ package and distribute Luke with Solr and/or Lucene, It flies in the face of the “slimmer faster Solr” effort. OTOH, if it’s a package, the work we need to do in Solr is different than if we add it to the distro...
And if the consensus is that we should consider it a developer’s tool rather than something we make available to casual users, I can just close SOLR-13412 as “won’t fix".
> On Aug 7, 2020, at 11:15 PM, Tomoko Uchida <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Erick,
>
> > 2> Currently, invoking it is an ant task, it’s not build/distributed. How this will work out in the Gradle build is TBD.
>
> As for this point, I think we should consider SOLR-13412 and LUCENE-9442 separately, since the former is about making a distribution package and the latter is about providing a helper for developers.
>
> Tomoko
>
>
> 2020年8月7日(金) 22:28 Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>:
> All:
>
> I’m not sure this really makes sense at this point. I’ve outlined the current state on the JIRA. The sort form is:
>
> 1> there’s some work currently being done to make the stand-alone Luke app work in the Gradle world.
>
> 2> Currently, invoking it is an ant task, it’s not build/distributed. How this will work out in the Gradle build is TBD.
>
> 3> I’m not sure trying to make this easily accessible from Solr ("bin/solr luke" or similar) even in the event that the Gradle build creates the entire standalone app adds enough value to make it worth the effort. We have a subset of functionality with the Luke Request Handler, and people who need the deeper dive that Luke provides can download the source and execute the Gradle task.
>
> So I’m thinking of closing the JIRA as “won’t fix”.
>
> Please add comments to the JIRA
>
> Erick
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: SOLR-13412 (Make the Lucene Luke module available from a Solr distribution)
Posted by Tomoko Uchida <to...@gmail.com>.
Hi Erick,
> 2> Currently, invoking it is an ant task, it’s not build/distributed. How
this will work out in the Gradle build is TBD.
As for this point, I think we should consider SOLR-13412 and LUCENE-9442
separately, since the former is about making a distribution package and the
latter is about providing a helper for developers.
Tomoko
2020年8月7日(金) 22:28 Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>:
> All:
>
> I’m not sure this really makes sense at this point. I’ve outlined the
> current state on the JIRA. The sort form is:
>
> 1> there’s some work currently being done to make the stand-alone Luke app
> work in the Gradle world.
>
> 2> Currently, invoking it is an ant task, it’s not build/distributed. How
> this will work out in the Gradle build is TBD.
>
> 3> I’m not sure trying to make this easily accessible from Solr ("bin/solr
> luke" or similar) even in the event that the Gradle build creates the
> entire standalone app adds enough value to make it worth the effort. We
> have a subset of functionality with the Luke Request Handler, and people
> who need the deeper dive that Luke provides can download the source and
> execute the Gradle task.
>
> So I’m thinking of closing the JIRA as “won’t fix”.
>
> Please add comments to the JIRA
>
> Erick
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>
>