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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org> on 2003/01/05 11:00:24 UTC
Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
> This is one of my least favourite features of this forrest skin.
Look at this version, which is a modified forrest skin, if it's better:
http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/
I took all the suggestions from users like this one and made that skin
from the Forrest one. We will evaluate what users prefer from this one
for the next CSS-only Forrest skin version coming out soon.
> --
> dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
> Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog
> Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
>
>
> Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com> wrote on 05/01/2003 10:57:21 AM:
>
[...]
>>
>>What is up with the left hand side of the layout taking up ~45% of the
>
> page?
>
>> http://studioz.tv/huge-margin.pdf
>>
>>-jon
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
>> Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com> wrote on 05/01/2003 10:57:21 AM:
>>
> [...]
>
>>>
>>> What is up with the left hand side of the layout taking up ~45% of the
>>
>>
>> page?
>>
>>> http://studioz.tv/huge-margin.pdf
Jon, what browser are you using? If we know, someone might be able to test.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Santiago Gala wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>> dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
>>
>>> This is one of my least favourite features of this forrest skin.
>>
>> Look at this version, which is a modified forrest skin, if it's better:
>> http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/
>>
>> I took all the suggestions from users like this one and made that skin
>> from the Forrest one. We will evaluate what users prefer from this one
>> for the next CSS-only Forrest skin version coming out soon.
>
> It would be great if the abbreviated items had an alt tag with the full
> name, to be shown as tooltip.
>
> Take it as "Just one more user suggestion" ;-)
Ciao Santiago :-)
The suggestion is a good one, and it has been fixed a couple of days ago
by brother Jeff. Thanks :-)
Oh, btw we have also fixed that link highlighting bug and now all our
skins validate as HTML4.01.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by Santiago Gala <sg...@hisitech.com>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>
> dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
>
>> This is one of my least favourite features of this forrest skin.
>
>
> Look at this version, which is a modified forrest skin, if it's better:
> http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/
>
> I took all the suggestions from users like this one and made that skin
> from the Forrest one. We will evaluate what users prefer from this one
> for the next CSS-only Forrest skin version coming out soon.
>
It would be great if the abbreviated items had an alt tag with the full
name, to be shown as tooltip.
Take it as "Just one more user suggestion" ;-)
Regards,
Santiago
(...)
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Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> Long ones are truncated.
>
> Smaller fonts + truncation looks like a solution for me, no?
>
>> Like Jon has said, that left nav bar chewing 30+% of the page is a
>> killer from a usability angle.
>
>
> Exactly why I made this other version.
> So, is it better?
yep - with the <a title="full name"/> Rob suggested.
I would cut off on 18 chars width.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
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Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> Long ones are truncated.
>
> Smaller fonts + truncation looks like a solution for me, no?
>
>> Like Jon has said, that left nav bar chewing 30+% of the page is a
>> killer from a usability angle.
>
>
> Exactly why I made this other version.
> So, is it better?
yep - with the <a title="full name"/> Rob suggested.
I would cut off on 18 chars width.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by di...@multitask.com.au.
Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org> wrote on 05/01/2003 10:47:30 PM:
>
> dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
> > Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org> wrote on 05/01/2003 09:00:24
PM:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
> >>
> >>>This is one of my least favourite features of this forrest skin.
> >>
> >>Look at this version, which is a modified forrest skin, if it's
better:
> >>http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/
> >>
> >>I took all the suggestions from users like this one and made that skin
> >>from the Forrest one. We will evaluate what users prefer from this one
> >>for the next CSS-only Forrest skin version coming out soon.
> >
> > I can't tell from that page if the left menu will grow to the right
> > forever or not if there are some long names.
> >
> > That's my main beef with the previous one.
>
> Look at this them:
> http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/manual/howTo-startProject/module.html
Better, but I'd prefer they were wrapped rather than concatenated.
> Long ones are truncated.
>
> Smaller fonts + truncation looks like a solution for me, no?
As above. Smaller fonts + truncation would be my second choice.
> > Like Jon has said, that left nav bar chewing 30+% of the page is a
killer
> > from a usability angle.
>
> Exactly why I made this other version.
> So, is it better?
Yep, definitely better. Still not 'good', but it's acceptable.
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog
Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
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Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>> Very nice, clean and good colors - it gives off a comfortable feeling.
>> One thing
>> I would add to the nav items is a title attribute and use the linked
>> page's
>> /html/head/title as the value or at least the complete label (for
>> those with
>> ...).
>
>
> Sorry Rob, I don't get it... could you please make an example for me?
> Thanks :-)
I assume <a href="foobar" title="the unabbreviated title">the abbrev.
title</a>.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by Miles Elam <mi...@geekspeak.org>.
Forgot the code snippet... The following keeps each navitem at a
constant/consistent height and drops the overflow. I only just whipped
it out in Mozilla so I make no warrantees for this particular snippet as is.
------------ BEGIN SNIPPET ------------
<html>
<head>
<style type="text/css" title="default">
.navitem {
display: block;
height: 1.2em;
overflow: hidden;
}
#nav {
background: #EEEEEE;
border: 1px solid black;
padding: 0.5em;
width: 150px;
}
/* <br /> is only for use with no stylesheet */
br {
display: none;
}
</style>
<body>
<div id="nav">
<a href="foo1" class="navitem" title="1st complete nav item name for
effect">1st
complete nav item name for effect</a><br />
<a href="foo2" class="navitem" title="2nd complete nav item name for
effect">2nd
complete nav item name for effect</a><br />
<a href="foo3" class="navitem" title="3rd complete nav item name for
effect">3rd
complete nav item name for effect</a><br />
<a href="foo4" class="navitem" title="4th complete nav item name for
effect">4th
complete nav item name for effect</a><br />
<a href="foo5" class="navitem" title="5th complete nav item name for
effect">5th
complete nav item name for effect</a>
</div>
</body>
</html>
-------------------- END SNIPPET --------------
- Miles
Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by Miles Elam <mi...@geekspeak.org>.
Robert Koberg wrote:
>are you addressing me (it was not clear from the organization of your email)?
>
Sorry about that. I guess I was a bit overzealous in my reply
trimming. I was addressing you and the rest of the people following
this thread.
>NKB asked for some examples. That was the point. To clear up anymore confusion,
>the example was to show how to:
>a) use a title attribute to add information to a nav item in a limited space
>b) scroll something ('pre' in this case) in a div
>-- the pre tag as it was used caused the entire page to scroll horiz. I tried to
>offer a simple solution to keep the content on the page and just scroll the code
>area.
>
I got that. :) I was trying to point out other methods to solve the
problem at hand and to illustrate pros and cons of each method. I meant
no offense. I just sent my code snippet as another example.
>OK?
>
Yep.
- Miles
RE: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by Robert Koberg <ro...@koberg.com>.
Hi,
are you addressing me (it was not clear from the organization of your email)?
NKB asked for some examples. That was the point. To clear up anymore confusion,
the example was to show how to:
a) use a title attribute to add information to a nav item in a limited space
b) scroll something ('pre' in this case) in a div
-- the pre tag as it was used caused the entire page to scroll horiz. I tried to
offer a simple solution to keep the content on the page and just scroll the code
area.
OK?
-Rob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Miles Elam [mailto:miles@geekspeak.org]
> Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 2:13 PM
> To: forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
>
>
> If the nav has important content and that content is crowding other
> things out, perhaps the layout should simply be rethought. Even in
> Nikola's centipede skin with its smaller fonts, a browser at 640x480 (or
> someone with visually-assistive technologies that make fonts larger)
> could run into this problem.
>
> So am I correct in interpreting that the example is intended to make the
> content area keep a minimum size? Isn't using a <pre /> tag bowing to
> the forces of browser hacks? What ever happened to semantic meaning in
> markup? Also, in your example, wouldn't the breakable nav text just
> wrap and excessively long identifiers -- without breaks -- punch
> through the right side of the nav?
>
> Some other options that don't scroll but keep the nav width tamed:
> 2) allow the nav item text to wrap
> 3) use CSS to clip the contents to fit a given width
>
> #2 allows all of the text to be seen, and the nav bottom will simply
> extend further down the page; However, if there are no breakable
> whitespace characters (eg. reallylongidentifiersthatgoonandonandon) this
> will blow out the layout.
>
> #3 Here you tell the browser (in CSS) to keep the nav item heights
> static, the widths static, and clip the ends (with title attributes to
> show the full content). Browsers that don't handle CSS won't have the
> nav on the left crowding things anyway. The drawback of course being
> that you cannot see the whole identifier at once without the tooltip.
> Then again, is this something we want to encourage anyway? Excessively
> long identifiers in a nav only tend to blur the information for the
> user. Perhaps this would be a gentle nudge to the documentation author
> that they should rethink their nav identifier?
>
> The third item has a related set of disadvantages. If the nav is a
> fixed width (pixel-based width), as people raise the font size for
> readability, the visible portion of the identifiers will become shorter
> and shorter -- possibly obscuring their meaning. If it is font-flexible
> (em-based width), as the font size is increased, the nav will take more
> and more screen real-estate.
>
> -------
>
> I guess the issues to work out are whether we should tweak font sizes in
> the nav, take measures to maintain a minimum size of the content area,
> and/or use some sort of truncation technique on nav identifiers.
> Overall, this is a general layout/design issue that may only be
> correctly be answered by site using Forrest. Maybe a skin should be
> prepared that doesn't have the nav on the left side for sites that
> consider this an issue? Personally, I hate pages that make me scroll
> horizontally to get to the main page content. But I am not everyone;
> That may just be my pet peave. What does everyone else think?
>
> - Miles
>
> >>>Also, what about putting the <pre/> in a horzizontally scrolling DIV
> >>>(width:100%)? I don't know how this would work with all browsers (fail
> >>>gracefully?).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Can you add an example of that too? Seems cool, I wanna try it.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >how about something like:
> >
> ><div style="width:100%">
> ><div style="position:absolute;left:0px;width:170px;">
> ><!-- On rollover in most browsers the title displays like a tooltip -->
> ><a href="apage.html" title="The title or full label">yyyyyyyy</a>
> ></div>
> ><div style="margin-left:180px;margin-right:185px;width:70%;overflow:scroll;">
> ><pre>
> >xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxxx
> >xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ></pre>
> ></div>
> ></div>
> >
> >Of course some tweaking will be necessay :)
> >
> >
Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by Miles Elam <mi...@geekspeak.org>.
If the nav has important content and that content is crowding other
things out, perhaps the layout should simply be rethought. Even in
Nikola's centipede skin with its smaller fonts, a browser at 640x480 (or
someone with visually-assistive technologies that make fonts larger)
could run into this problem.
So am I correct in interpreting that the example is intended to make the
content area keep a minimum size? Isn't using a <pre /> tag bowing to
the forces of browser hacks? What ever happened to semantic meaning in
markup? Also, in your example, wouldn't the breakable nav text just
wrap and excessively long identifiers -- without breaks -- punch
through the right side of the nav?
Some other options that don't scroll but keep the nav width tamed:
2) allow the nav item text to wrap
3) use CSS to clip the contents to fit a given width
#2 allows all of the text to be seen, and the nav bottom will simply
extend further down the page; However, if there are no breakable
whitespace characters (eg. reallylongidentifiersthatgoonandonandon) this
will blow out the layout.
#3 Here you tell the browser (in CSS) to keep the nav item heights
static, the widths static, and clip the ends (with title attributes to
show the full content). Browsers that don't handle CSS won't have the
nav on the left crowding things anyway. The drawback of course being
that you cannot see the whole identifier at once without the tooltip.
Then again, is this something we want to encourage anyway? Excessively
long identifiers in a nav only tend to blur the information for the
user. Perhaps this would be a gentle nudge to the documentation author
that they should rethink their nav identifier?
The third item has a related set of disadvantages. If the nav is a
fixed width (pixel-based width), as people raise the font size for
readability, the visible portion of the identifiers will become shorter
and shorter -- possibly obscuring their meaning. If it is font-flexible
(em-based width), as the font size is increased, the nav will take more
and more screen real-estate.
-------
I guess the issues to work out are whether we should tweak font sizes in
the nav, take measures to maintain a minimum size of the content area,
and/or use some sort of truncation technique on nav identifiers.
Overall, this is a general layout/design issue that may only be
correctly be answered by site using Forrest. Maybe a skin should be
prepared that doesn't have the nav on the left side for sites that
consider this an issue? Personally, I hate pages that make me scroll
horizontally to get to the main page content. But I am not everyone;
That may just be my pet peave. What does everyone else think?
- Miles
>>>Also, what about putting the <pre/> in a horzizontally scrolling DIV
>>>(width:100%)? I don't know how this would work with all browsers (fail
>>>gracefully?).
>>>
>>>
>>Can you add an example of that too? Seems cool, I wanna try it.
>>
>>
>
>how about something like:
>
><div style="width:100%">
><div style="position:absolute;left:0px;width:170px;">
><!-- On rollover in most browsers the title displays like a tooltip -->
><a href="apage.html" title="The title or full label">yyyyyyyy</a>
></div>
><div style="margin-left:180px;margin-right:185px;width:70%;overflow:scroll;">
><pre>
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
></pre>
></div>
></div>
>
>Of course some tweaking will be necessay :)
>
>
RE: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by Robert Koberg <ro...@koberg.com>.
Howdy,
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicola Ken Barozzi [mailto:nicolaken@apache.org]
> Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 8:46 AM
> Robert Koberg wrote:
> > Hi Ken,
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Nicola Ken Barozzi [mailto:nicolaken@apache.org]
>
> [...]
> >>So, is it better?
> >
> >
> > Very nice, clean and good colors - it gives off a comfortable
> feeling. One thing
> > I would add to the nav items is a title attribute and use the linked page's
> > /html/head/title as the value or at least the complete label (for those with
> > ...).
>
> Sorry Rob, I don't get it... could you please make an example for me?
> Thanks :-)
no problem, see below
>
> > Also, what about putting the <pre/> in a horzizontally scrolling DIV
> > (width:100%)? I don't know how this would work with all browsers (fail
> > gracefully?).
>
> Can you add an example of that too? Seems cool, I wanna try it.
how about something like:
<div style="width:100%">
<div style="position:absolute;left:0px;width:170px;">
<!-- On rollover in most browsers the title displays like a tooltip -->
<a href="apage.html" title="The title or full label">yyyyyyyy</a>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:180px;margin-right:185px;width:70%;overflow:scroll;">
<pre>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
</pre>
</div>
</div>
Of course some tweaking will be necessay :)
best,
-Rob
>
> --
> Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
> - verba volant, scripta manent -
> (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Robert Koberg wrote:
> Hi Ken,
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Nicola Ken Barozzi [mailto:nicolaken@apache.org]
[...]
>>So, is it better?
>
>
> Very nice, clean and good colors - it gives off a comfortable feeling. One thing
> I would add to the nav items is a title attribute and use the linked page's
> /html/head/title as the value or at least the complete label (for those with
> ...).
Sorry Rob, I don't get it... could you please make an example for me?
Thanks :-)
> Also, what about putting the <pre/> in a horzizontally scrolling DIV
> (width:100%)? I don't know how this would work with all browsers (fail
> gracefully?).
Can you add an example of that too? Seems cool, I wanna try it.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
RE: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by Robert Koberg <ro...@koberg.com>.
Hi Ken,
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicola Ken Barozzi [mailto:nicolaken@apache.org]
> Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 3:48 AM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Cc: forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
>
>
>
> dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
> > Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org> wrote on 05/01/2003 09:00:24 PM:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
> >>
> >>>This is one of my least favourite features of this forrest skin.
> >>
> >>Look at this version, which is a modified forrest skin, if it's better:
> >>http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/
> >>
> >>I took all the suggestions from users like this one and made that skin
> >>from the Forrest one. We will evaluate what users prefer from this one
> >>for the next CSS-only Forrest skin version coming out soon.
> >
> > I can't tell from that page if the left menu will grow to the right
> > forever or not if there are some long names.
> >
> > That's my main beef with the previous one.
>
> Look at this them:
> http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/manual/howTo-startProject/module.html
>
> Long ones are truncated.
>
> Smaller fonts + truncation looks like a solution for me, no?
>
> > Like Jon has said, that left nav bar chewing 30+% of the page is a killer
> > from a usability angle.
>
> Exactly why I made this other version.
> So, is it better?
Very nice, clean and good colors - it gives off a comfortable feeling. One thing
I would add to the nav items is a title attribute and use the linked page's
/html/head/title as the value or at least the complete label (for those with
...).
Also, what about putting the <pre/> in a horzizontally scrolling DIV
(width:100%)? I don't know how this would work with all browsers (fail
gracefully?).
best,
-Rob
>
> --
> Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
> - verba volant, scripta manent -
> (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org> wrote on 05/01/2003 09:00:24 PM:
>
>
>>
>>dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
>>
>>>This is one of my least favourite features of this forrest skin.
>>
>>Look at this version, which is a modified forrest skin, if it's better:
>>http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/
>>
>>I took all the suggestions from users like this one and made that skin
>>from the Forrest one. We will evaluate what users prefer from this one
>>for the next CSS-only Forrest skin version coming out soon.
>
> I can't tell from that page if the left menu will grow to the right
> forever or not if there are some long names.
>
> That's my main beef with the previous one.
Look at this them:
http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/manual/howTo-startProject/module.html
Long ones are truncated.
Smaller fonts + truncation looks like a solution for me, no?
> Like Jon has said, that left nav bar chewing 30+% of the page is a killer
> from a usability angle.
Exactly why I made this other version.
So, is it better?
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org> wrote on 05/01/2003 09:00:24 PM:
>
>
>>
>>dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
>>
>>>This is one of my least favourite features of this forrest skin.
>>
>>Look at this version, which is a modified forrest skin, if it's better:
>>http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/
>>
>>I took all the suggestions from users like this one and made that skin
>>from the Forrest one. We will evaluate what users prefer from this one
>>for the next CSS-only Forrest skin version coming out soon.
>
> I can't tell from that page if the left menu will grow to the right
> forever or not if there are some long names.
>
> That's my main beef with the previous one.
Look at this them:
http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/manual/howTo-startProject/module.html
Long ones are truncated.
Smaller fonts + truncation looks like a solution for me, no?
> Like Jon has said, that left nav bar chewing 30+% of the page is a killer
> from a usability angle.
Exactly why I made this other version.
So, is it better?
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Posted by di...@multitask.com.au.
Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org> wrote on 05/01/2003 09:00:24 PM:
>
>
> dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
> > This is one of my least favourite features of this forrest skin.
>
> Look at this version, which is a modified forrest skin, if it's better:
> http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/
>
> I took all the suggestions from users like this one and made that skin
> from the Forrest one. We will evaluate what users prefer from this one
> for the next CSS-only Forrest skin version coming out soon.
I can't tell from that page if the left menu will grow to the right
forever or not if there are some long names.
That's my main beef with the previous one.
Like Jon has said, that left nav bar chewing 30+% of the page is a killer
from a usability angle.
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog
Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
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