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Posted to dev@avalon.apache.org by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org> on 2002/10/28 07:44:11 UTC
Reorganization of Avalon
Hi,
As some of you are undoubtably aware, Jakarta/Apache is in the process of
going through some rapid evolution. Part of the problem is that Jakarta is
too big, too out of scope and doesn't offer any legal protection for the
majority of it's constituents (ie all of Avalon).
There are several different initiatives underway to "fix" this problem. I
would like us to start looking at some of the less radical steps that can be
taken to address these issues.
In particular there has been two new top level projects created;
commons.apache.org and incubator.apache.org. Nicola is heavily involved over
in the incubator.apache.org and I am keen on commons.apache.org.
You can go to both websites to see a basic overview (neither are fully fledged
yet but are worrks in progress). Basically incubator is where you go to
create new communitys and codebases while commons is like Jakarta Commons
except Apache-wide and following the standard Apache rules for each component
(or grouping).
Firstly I would like everyone to consider starting to move selected parts of
excalibur over into the commons. In particular the parts I would like to move
over first are the ones that are decoupled from Avalon/Framework. In
particular the following list of components are candidates.
Component Committers
---------------------------------------------------
bzip peter + some ant devs?
tar peter + some ant devs?
zip peter + some ant devs?
naming peter + anyone else like u Berin?
extension phoenix devs
policy phoenix devs
loader (when stable)
phoenix devs
converter peter + Eung-Ju
i18n peter + Eung-Ju
cache Eung-Ju
cli peter + Berin
io (maybe merge with j-c io)
peter + Berin + jeff
Theres a few other components that may move but the above gives us a start.
Does anyone want add anything to the above list (either components or
committers)? As most of these components are stable, being a committer will
basically mean you go over there and help any problems that arise and maybe
add a smidgen more docs or code fix ups.
Thoughts?
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
A right is not what someone gives you; it's what no one can take from you.
-- Ramsey Clark
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Re: Reorganization of Avalon
Posted by Eung-ju Park <co...@apache.org>.
- converter : I don't know about converter. I'm just a user of converter,
not developer. there isn't one line of code from me.
- cache : is this cache package useful for other peoples? I have no
confidence. I'm not using it at this time. commons-sandbox, xml-cocoon are
also has cache component. Need more consideration before move to common.
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Re: Reorganization of Avalon
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:20, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Peter Donald wrote:
> > Ummm. Just in case it wasn't clear. I am wanting to move stuff to Apache
> > commons which is altogether different from Jakarta Commons.
>
> I see. so what about Jakarta Commons? aren't they moving everything over
> themselves?
It's up to them. Some wil fight it tooth and nail while some think it is a
good idea.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
------------------------------------------------------
Mark Twain: "In the real world, the right thing never
happens in the right place at the right time. It is
the task of journalists and historians to rectify
this error."
------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Reorganization of Avalon
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Peter Donald wrote:
> Ummm. Just in case it wasn't clear. I am wanting to move stuff to Apache
> commons which is altogether different from Jakarta Commons.
I see. so what about Jakarta Commons? aren't they moving everything over
themselves?
>
> On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 06:18, Berin Loritsch wrote:
>
>>Peter Donald wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>As some of you are undoubtably aware, Jakarta/Apache is in the process of
>>>going through some rapid evolution. Part of the problem is that Jakarta
>>>is too big, too out of scope and doesn't offer any legal protection for
>>>the majority of it's constituents (ie all of Avalon).
>>>
>>>There are several different initiatives underway to "fix" this problem. I
>>>would like us to start looking at some of the less radical steps that can
>>>be taken to address these issues.
>>>
>>>In particular there has been two new top level projects created;
>>>commons.apache.org and incubator.apache.org. Nicola is heavily involved
>>>over in the incubator.apache.org and I am keen on commons.apache.org.
>>>
>>>You can go to both websites to see a basic overview (neither are fully
>>>fledged yet but are worrks in progress). Basically incubator is where you
>>>go to create new communitys and codebases while commons is like Jakarta
>>>Commons except Apache-wide and following the standard Apache rules for
>>>each component (or grouping).
>>>
>>>Firstly I would like everyone to consider starting to move selected parts
>>>of excalibur over into the commons. In particular the parts I would like
>>>to move over first are the ones that are decoupled from Avalon/Framework.
>>>In particular the following list of components are candidates.
>>>
>>>Component Committers
>>>---------------------------------------------------
>>>bzip peter + some ant devs?
>>>tar peter + some ant devs?
>>>zip peter + some ant devs?
>>
>>I believe these three are already in Commons-Sandbox. Nicola started the
>>migration.
>>
>>
>>>naming peter + anyone else like u Berin?
>>
>>Sure.
>>
>>
>>>extension phoenix devs
>>>policy phoenix devs
>>>loader (when stable)
>>> phoenix devs
>>
>>Get it over into sandbox. BTW, there is a new project starting over
>>there that is really interesting. It is called "clazz". I have been
>>in talks with them to be able to have a project that provides metadata
>>and delegates in a generic fashion (not just Avalon specific).
>>
>>
>>>converter peter + Eung-Ju
>>>i18n peter + Eung-Ju
>>
>>+1 make sure there isn't something that is conflicting/complimentary.
>>
>>
>>>cache Eung-Ju
>>>cli peter + Berin
>>
>>I have been in talks with the Commons CLI author. He is very responsive,
>>and *almost* has all the functionality that Avalon CLI has. There are
>>some issues, but I can't remember them off the top of my head. The
>>Commons CLI package is much more flexible, and it is easier to set up
>>Options.
>>
>>
>>>io (maybe merge with j-c io)
>>> peter + Berin + jeff
>>
>>I think that work is already done.
>>
>>
>>>Theres a few other components that may move but the above gives us a
>>>start. Does anyone want add anything to the above list (either components
>>>or committers)? As most of these components are stable, being a committer
>>>will basically mean you go over there and help any problems that arise
>>>and maybe add a smidgen more docs or code fix ups.
>>>
>>>Thoughts?
>>
>>We already have Collections merged, so we need to make our codebase
>>depend on Commons variation.
>
>
--
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Reorganization of Avalon
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
Ummm. Just in case it wasn't clear. I am wanting to move stuff to Apache
commons which is altogether different from Jakarta Commons.
On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 06:18, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Peter Donald wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > As some of you are undoubtably aware, Jakarta/Apache is in the process of
> > going through some rapid evolution. Part of the problem is that Jakarta
> > is too big, too out of scope and doesn't offer any legal protection for
> > the majority of it's constituents (ie all of Avalon).
> >
> > There are several different initiatives underway to "fix" this problem. I
> > would like us to start looking at some of the less radical steps that can
> > be taken to address these issues.
> >
> > In particular there has been two new top level projects created;
> > commons.apache.org and incubator.apache.org. Nicola is heavily involved
> > over in the incubator.apache.org and I am keen on commons.apache.org.
> >
> > You can go to both websites to see a basic overview (neither are fully
> > fledged yet but are worrks in progress). Basically incubator is where you
> > go to create new communitys and codebases while commons is like Jakarta
> > Commons except Apache-wide and following the standard Apache rules for
> > each component (or grouping).
> >
> > Firstly I would like everyone to consider starting to move selected parts
> > of excalibur over into the commons. In particular the parts I would like
> > to move over first are the ones that are decoupled from Avalon/Framework.
> > In particular the following list of components are candidates.
> >
> > Component Committers
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > bzip peter + some ant devs?
> > tar peter + some ant devs?
> > zip peter + some ant devs?
>
> I believe these three are already in Commons-Sandbox. Nicola started the
> migration.
>
> > naming peter + anyone else like u Berin?
>
> Sure.
>
> > extension phoenix devs
> > policy phoenix devs
> > loader (when stable)
> > phoenix devs
>
> Get it over into sandbox. BTW, there is a new project starting over
> there that is really interesting. It is called "clazz". I have been
> in talks with them to be able to have a project that provides metadata
> and delegates in a generic fashion (not just Avalon specific).
>
> > converter peter + Eung-Ju
> > i18n peter + Eung-Ju
>
> +1 make sure there isn't something that is conflicting/complimentary.
>
> > cache Eung-Ju
> > cli peter + Berin
>
> I have been in talks with the Commons CLI author. He is very responsive,
> and *almost* has all the functionality that Avalon CLI has. There are
> some issues, but I can't remember them off the top of my head. The
> Commons CLI package is much more flexible, and it is easier to set up
> Options.
>
> > io (maybe merge with j-c io)
> > peter + Berin + jeff
>
> I think that work is already done.
>
> > Theres a few other components that may move but the above gives us a
> > start. Does anyone want add anything to the above list (either components
> > or committers)? As most of these components are stable, being a committer
> > will basically mean you go over there and help any problems that arise
> > and maybe add a smidgen more docs or code fix ups.
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
> We already have Collections merged, so we need to make our codebase
> depend on Commons variation.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
Einstein argued that there must be simplified explanations of nature, because
God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such faith comforts the software
engineer.
- Fred Brooks, Jr.
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Re: Reorganization of Avalon
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Peter Donald wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As some of you are undoubtably aware, Jakarta/Apache is in the process of
> going through some rapid evolution. Part of the problem is that Jakarta is
> too big, too out of scope and doesn't offer any legal protection for the
> majority of it's constituents (ie all of Avalon).
>
> There are several different initiatives underway to "fix" this problem. I
> would like us to start looking at some of the less radical steps that can be
> taken to address these issues.
>
> In particular there has been two new top level projects created;
> commons.apache.org and incubator.apache.org. Nicola is heavily involved over
> in the incubator.apache.org and I am keen on commons.apache.org.
>
> You can go to both websites to see a basic overview (neither are fully fledged
> yet but are worrks in progress). Basically incubator is where you go to
> create new communitys and codebases while commons is like Jakarta Commons
> except Apache-wide and following the standard Apache rules for each component
> (or grouping).
>
> Firstly I would like everyone to consider starting to move selected parts of
> excalibur over into the commons. In particular the parts I would like to move
> over first are the ones that are decoupled from Avalon/Framework. In
> particular the following list of components are candidates.
>
> Component Committers
> ---------------------------------------------------
> bzip peter + some ant devs?
> tar peter + some ant devs?
> zip peter + some ant devs?
I believe these three are already in Commons-Sandbox. Nicola started the
migration.
> naming peter + anyone else like u Berin?
Sure.
> extension phoenix devs
> policy phoenix devs
> loader (when stable)
> phoenix devs
Get it over into sandbox. BTW, there is a new project starting over
there that is really interesting. It is called "clazz". I have been
in talks with them to be able to have a project that provides metadata
and delegates in a generic fashion (not just Avalon specific).
> converter peter + Eung-Ju
> i18n peter + Eung-Ju
+1 make sure there isn't something that is conflicting/complimentary.
> cache Eung-Ju
> cli peter + Berin
I have been in talks with the Commons CLI author. He is very responsive,
and *almost* has all the functionality that Avalon CLI has. There are
some issues, but I can't remember them off the top of my head. The
Commons CLI package is much more flexible, and it is easier to set up
Options.
> io (maybe merge with j-c io)
> peter + Berin + jeff
I think that work is already done.
>
> Theres a few other components that may move but the above gives us a start.
> Does anyone want add anything to the above list (either components or
> committers)? As most of these components are stable, being a committer will
> basically mean you go over there and help any problems that arise and maybe
> add a smidgen more docs or code fix ups.
>
> Thoughts?
>
We already have Collections merged, so we need to make our codebase
depend on Commons variation.
--
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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Re: Reorganization of Avalon
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 2002-10-28 at 07:44, Peter Donald wrote:
<snip/>
> Firstly I would like everyone to consider starting to move selected parts of
> excalibur over into the commons. In particular the parts I would like to move
> over first are the ones that are decoupled from Avalon/Framework.
Sounds like The Right Thing :)
> In particular the following list of components are candidates.
>
> Component Committers
> ---------------------------------------------------
> bzip peter + some ant devs?
> tar peter + some ant devs?
> zip peter + some ant devs?
> naming peter + anyone else like u Berin?
> extension phoenix devs
> policy phoenix devs
> loader (when stable)
> phoenix devs
> converter peter + Eung-Ju
> i18n peter + Eung-Ju
> cache Eung-Ju
> cli peter + Berin
> io (maybe merge with j-c io)
> peter + Berin + jeff
>
> Theres a few other components that may move but the above gives us a start.
> Does anyone want add anything to the above list (either components or
> committers)? As most of these components are stable, being a committer will
> basically mean you go over there and help any problems that arise and maybe
> add a smidgen more docs or code fix ups.
>
> Thoughts?
As I understand it, there is already quite a bit of code that has been
(conceptually at least) moved to jakarta-commons, where we are still
hosting these materials for reasons of backward compatibility, slow
evolution, quality assurance, etc.
I believe this includes the bzip, tar, zip and io stuff, and there's
been thoughts about the cli stuff. I believe Nicola was one of the
primary people working on this?
I'm hoping any work on this will happen together with / with general
consent of the people in jakarta-commons working on this stuff. I'm
voicing the concern because I've seen some posts on the reorg list from
concerned jakarta-commons people. I'm confident it should work out
though.
Oh, and I don't know if I should still be considered a 'phoenix dev'
(mostly 'emeritus; atm anyway), but if there's sufficient support for
the modules you mentioned from other people but me I'd be happiest to
not be committer for them when they move. Less commits to read...more
time to code :)
cheers,
Leo Simons
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