Re: an unusual [job request] + taking mod_perl to the commercial world

[Gunther Birznieks <gu...@extropia.com>]

I would like to restate that while I think these engines are cool and 
useful, that they are not the things that bring the masses to your 
platform.  This was the point I was making. I am not naysaying projects 
like Enhydra, but just stated that they are not as directly useful for 
bringing the masses to the platform.

While it is true that an "Enhydra" type of engine makes writing application 
easier, what you really still always need in order to gain a critical mass 
is something more concrete that the masses can hook onto.

I am not talking about techies loving mod_perl or Enhydra or AxKit. But 
everyday webmasters and CIOs saying "XYZ platform has so many applications 
for it.... I can see them demoed, my tech staff can install them within a 
day...." so let's use it.

There are just certain things that are harder to market than others. 
Applications make platforms easier to market because it shows off the power.

I was not at the meeting, but I heard Stas convinced one of our clients to 
go with mod_perl by showing them a site he created called SinglesHeaven in 
CGI and then in mod_perl. "Look how fast it is and you can see it's a real 
application". Showing the same people benchmarks of hello world and 
template renderings generally do not have the same effect.

At 11:06 AM 4/28/01 -0400, Bakki Kudva wrote:
>On Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:14:10 +0100 (BST)
>Matt Sergeant <ma...@sergeant.org> wrote:
>
>Amen to that and there is Enhydra on the Java side. To get the
>functionality of these two frameworks I'd have to integrate many many CPAN
>modules, keep track of various versions, make sure each is active etc etc.
>A nice application framework like Enhydra or zope on mod_perl which is
>maintained perhaps by all the authors of individual modules would be a
>great start.
>bakki
>
> > Actually there's an exception to this rule. Look at Zope.
> >

Re: an unusual [job request] + taking mod_perl to the commercial world

[Bakki Kudva <ba...@navaco.com>]

On Sun, 29 Apr 2001 13:52:05 +0800
Gunther Birznieks <gu...@extropia.com> wrote:

I completely agree with the assertion that applications sell the
underlying technology. History teaches us that to be indisputable.

Also while applications should be an overall part of the vision, it may
not have to be there right from the start. I have been peeking in at
Enhydra from time to time and I remeber in the beginning all they had was
the framework consisting of the multi-server, xmlc and perhaps DODS. Now i
see they have complete apps like Brock, jFAQ, and the fairly complete golf
store application all of which could be, as YABW (yet another buzz word)
says, "repurposed". Same is true of Zope where apps are emerging only now.
The tutorial is a terrific example of a zope app. Perhaps the roadmaps
followed by these two opensource camps will have great lessons for
mod_perl.

As the technology catches on the core-developers could form a company for
support, training etc as shown by Lutris for Enhydra and Digital Creations
for Zope. That seems like the validation corporations look for.

moral: lay a great foundation and they will build :)

-bakki

> I would like to restate that while I think these engines are cool and 
> useful, that they are not the things that bring the masses to your 
> platform.  This was the point I was making. I am not naysaying projects 
> like Enhydra, but just stated that they are not as directly useful for 
> bringing the masses to the platform.
> 
> While it is true that an "Enhydra" type of engine makes writing
> application 
> easier, what you really still always need in order to gain a critical
> mass 
> is something more concrete that the masses can hook onto.
> 
> I am not talking about techies loving mod_perl or Enhydra or AxKit. But 
> everyday webmasters and CIOs saying "XYZ platform has so many
> applications 
> for it.... I can see them demoed, my tech staff can install them within
> a 
> day...." so let's use it.
> 
> There are just certain things that are harder to market than others. 
> Applications make platforms easier to market because it shows off the
> power.
> 
> I was not at the meeting, but I heard Stas convinced one of our clients
> to 
> go with mod_perl by showing them a site he created called SinglesHeaven
> in 
> CGI and then in mod_perl. "Look how fast it is and you can see it's a
> real 
> application". Showing the same people benchmarks of hello world and 
> template renderings generally do not have the same effect.
> 

-- 
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