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Posted to doc@openoffice.apache.org by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org> on 2016/07/24 17:34:11 UTC
[DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting, Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
[BCC to dev and users lists - please keep the conversation on doc@ for now, at least by BCC, since it pertains to use of the wiki(s).]
I notice that the User Guide draft does not provide connection to topics around installation, startup, and so on, at least not at the top level, <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/UserGuide>.
The Apache OpenOffice Documentation Project page is project descriptive, rather than documentation descriptive,
at <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation>. This page has a mix of old and somewhat recent material and a variety of formats and works-in-progress.
I am particularly interested, myself, in information about installation, start up, ways of starting work with documents, saving and locating documents, tips for configuring for careful and systematic operation as well as trouble-shooting, working-around common problems, and limitations to be known about. I am also interested in that information being well-illustrated. My priority, by the way, is Windows first, since that represents over 85% of our user community measured by download statistics.
These don't seem to be part of the User Guide project but there are a variety of places where better information could be provided.
It seems to me that there are three ways to have the supporting documentation address this.
1. Add a section to the user guide for covering Installation, Configuration, Operation, Troubleshooting, and Removal. It would need to deal with separation of the different platforms (and their versions) in some clean way so that users on a particular platform can find what is pertinent to them and requires knowing their computer operating-system when it is not the same for all platforms. It would also need to deal with differences in AOO version functionality/caveats in some manner.
2. Use the current structure and update and add the information that seems to be important for providing the kind of documentation support I am speaking of, employing/expanding HOWTOs and the Frequently Asked Questions to tie into such material.
3. Maybe some combination, although cross-referencing might not serve users well unless it is smooth and frictionless (especially around users not losing their place based on what they are looking into).
Down the road, I would think it would be good to move The Documentation Project to a DocumentationProject wiki topic, and have current relevant documentation at the Documentation topic. Older material about unsupported software could move to a separate topic page (PreviousDocumentation ?) and cleaned up, and be accessible from the top-level Documentation topic.
Is there some coordination required about this, so that things don't be left in a broken, disconnected state? I think the material could be migrated in a way that keeps everything connected even as material is morphed into a new structure.
- Dennis
PS: I notice there were no responses to this question about how inter-version changes or specific-version items are identified.
PPS: Something else that needs to be done is cleanup around what is under PDL and what is not. I would thing that needs to be attended to in separation of Apache Licensed material and anything that must be retained under PDL.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 18:17
> To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: [QUESTIONS] Dealing with AOO Inter-Version Changes
>
> I notice that there is checking of documentation against current
> releases of Apache OpenOffice, although that does not seem to be
> reflected in the texts themselves, once User Guide pages are designated
> as stable/"published".
>
> I know there were a couple of behavioral changes in AOO 4.1.2 although
> that might not show at the current level of documentation detail.
>
> I wonder how changes to AOO that are user-perceived will be reflected in
> the documentation. Is not the older form to be maintained so it can be
> found by someone who is looking at such a version? Also, would we want
> to start marking the first version for which a page or chunk of content
> is current?
>
> Perhaps that is covered somewhere in the documentation guidance. I
> would be grateful if someone could point me to where this sort of
> change-accounting and feature-progression has been decided.
>
> - Dennis
>
> PS: Although these questions struck me about the User Guide, if you look
> at the top-level of the MediaWiki documentation section, there are many
> items that are specific to older versions that are (or may be) obsolete
> with respect to newer versions of OpenOffice.
>
>
>
> -- Dennis E. Hamilton
> orcmid@apache.org
> dennis.hamilton@acm.org +1-206-779-9430
> https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A
> X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail
>
>
>
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RE: [DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting, Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
Still ...
> [BCC to dev and users lists - please keep the conversation on doc@ for
> now, at least by BCC, since it pertains to use of the wiki(s).]
Of course, I could simply be over-thinking this whole thing and it would be more valuable to do something.
I still would like any feedback that there is before investing in something like this.
The need for development of hotfix procedures for end-users led me to elevate this lingering topic of mine for discussion. I regret not anticipating the need for better information for situations like that and user trouble-shooting as well.
- Dennis
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 10:34
> To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: [DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting,
> Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
>
>
> I notice that the User Guide draft does not provide connection to topics
> around installation, startup, and so on, at least not at the top level,
> <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/UserGuide>.
>
> The Apache OpenOffice Documentation Project page is project descriptive,
> rather than documentation descriptive,
> at <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation>. This page has a
> mix of old and somewhat recent material and a variety of formats and
> works-in-progress.
>
> I am particularly interested, myself, in information about installation,
> start up, ways of starting work with documents, saving and locating
> documents, tips for configuring for careful and systematic operation as
> well as trouble-shooting, working-around common problems, and
> limitations to be known about. I am also interested in that information
> being well-illustrated. My priority, by the way, is Windows first,
> since that represents over 85% of our user community measured by
> download statistics.
>
> These don't seem to be part of the User Guide project but there are a
> variety of places where better information could be provided.
>
> It seems to me that there are three ways to have the supporting
> documentation address this.
>
> 1. Add a section to the user guide for covering Installation,
> Configuration, Operation, Troubleshooting, and Removal. It would need
> to deal with separation of the different platforms (and their versions)
> in some clean way so that users on a particular platform can find what
> is pertinent to them and requires knowing their computer operating-
> system when it is not the same for all platforms. It would also need to
> deal with differences in AOO version functionality/caveats in some
> manner.
>
> 2. Use the current structure and update and add the information that
> seems to be important for providing the kind of documentation support I
> am speaking of, employing/expanding HOWTOs and the Frequently Asked
> Questions to tie into such material.
>
> 3. Maybe some combination, although cross-referencing might not serve
> users well unless it is smooth and frictionless (especially around users
> not losing their place based on what they are looking into).
>
> Down the road, I would think it would be good to move The Documentation
> Project to a DocumentationProject wiki topic, and have current relevant
> documentation at the Documentation topic. Older material about
> unsupported software could move to a separate topic page
> (PreviousDocumentation ?) and cleaned up, and be accessible from the
> top-level Documentation topic.
>
> Is there some coordination required about this, so that things don't be
> left in a broken, disconnected state? I think the material could be
> migrated in a way that keeps everything connected even as material is
> morphed into a new structure.
>
> - Dennis
>
> PS: I notice there were no responses to this question about how inter-
> version changes or specific-version items are identified.
>
> PPS: Something else that needs to be done is cleanup around what is
> under PDL and what is not. I would thing that needs to be attended to in
> separation of Apache Licensed material and anything that must be
> retained under PDL.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
> > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 18:17
> > To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
> > Subject: [QUESTIONS] Dealing with AOO Inter-Version Changes
> >
> > I notice that there is checking of documentation against current
> > releases of Apache OpenOffice, although that does not seem to be
> > reflected in the texts themselves, once User Guide pages are
> designated
> > as stable/"published".
> >
> > I know there were a couple of behavioral changes in AOO 4.1.2 although
> > that might not show at the current level of documentation detail.
> >
> > I wonder how changes to AOO that are user-perceived will be reflected
> in
> > the documentation. Is not the older form to be maintained so it can
> be
> > found by someone who is looking at such a version? Also, would we
> want
> > to start marking the first version for which a page or chunk of
> content
> > is current?
> >
> > Perhaps that is covered somewhere in the documentation guidance. I
> > would be grateful if someone could point me to where this sort of
> > change-accounting and feature-progression has been decided.
> >
> > - Dennis
> >
> > PS: Although these questions struck me about the User Guide, if you
> look
> > at the top-level of the MediaWiki documentation section, there are
> many
> > items that are specific to older versions that are (or may be)
> obsolete
> > with respect to newer versions of OpenOffice.
> >
> >
> >
> > -- Dennis E. Hamilton
> > orcmid@apache.org
> > dennis.hamilton@acm.org +1-206-779-9430
> > https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A
> > X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: [DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting, Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
Still ...
> [BCC to dev and users lists - please keep the conversation on doc@ for
> now, at least by BCC, since it pertains to use of the wiki(s).]
Of course, I could simply be over-thinking this whole thing and it would be more valuable to do something.
I still would like any feedback that there is before investing in something like this.
The need for development of hotfix procedures for end-users led me to elevate this lingering topic of mine for discussion. I regret not anticipating the need for better information for situations like that and user trouble-shooting as well.
- Dennis
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 10:34
> To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: [DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting,
> Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
>
>
> I notice that the User Guide draft does not provide connection to topics
> around installation, startup, and so on, at least not at the top level,
> <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/UserGuide>.
>
> The Apache OpenOffice Documentation Project page is project descriptive,
> rather than documentation descriptive,
> at <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation>. This page has a
> mix of old and somewhat recent material and a variety of formats and
> works-in-progress.
>
> I am particularly interested, myself, in information about installation,
> start up, ways of starting work with documents, saving and locating
> documents, tips for configuring for careful and systematic operation as
> well as trouble-shooting, working-around common problems, and
> limitations to be known about. I am also interested in that information
> being well-illustrated. My priority, by the way, is Windows first,
> since that represents over 85% of our user community measured by
> download statistics.
>
> These don't seem to be part of the User Guide project but there are a
> variety of places where better information could be provided.
>
> It seems to me that there are three ways to have the supporting
> documentation address this.
>
> 1. Add a section to the user guide for covering Installation,
> Configuration, Operation, Troubleshooting, and Removal. It would need
> to deal with separation of the different platforms (and their versions)
> in some clean way so that users on a particular platform can find what
> is pertinent to them and requires knowing their computer operating-
> system when it is not the same for all platforms. It would also need to
> deal with differences in AOO version functionality/caveats in some
> manner.
>
> 2. Use the current structure and update and add the information that
> seems to be important for providing the kind of documentation support I
> am speaking of, employing/expanding HOWTOs and the Frequently Asked
> Questions to tie into such material.
>
> 3. Maybe some combination, although cross-referencing might not serve
> users well unless it is smooth and frictionless (especially around users
> not losing their place based on what they are looking into).
>
> Down the road, I would think it would be good to move The Documentation
> Project to a DocumentationProject wiki topic, and have current relevant
> documentation at the Documentation topic. Older material about
> unsupported software could move to a separate topic page
> (PreviousDocumentation ?) and cleaned up, and be accessible from the
> top-level Documentation topic.
>
> Is there some coordination required about this, so that things don't be
> left in a broken, disconnected state? I think the material could be
> migrated in a way that keeps everything connected even as material is
> morphed into a new structure.
>
> - Dennis
>
> PS: I notice there were no responses to this question about how inter-
> version changes or specific-version items are identified.
>
> PPS: Something else that needs to be done is cleanup around what is
> under PDL and what is not. I would thing that needs to be attended to in
> separation of Apache Licensed material and anything that must be
> retained under PDL.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
> > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 18:17
> > To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
> > Subject: [QUESTIONS] Dealing with AOO Inter-Version Changes
> >
> > I notice that there is checking of documentation against current
> > releases of Apache OpenOffice, although that does not seem to be
> > reflected in the texts themselves, once User Guide pages are
> designated
> > as stable/"published".
> >
> > I know there were a couple of behavioral changes in AOO 4.1.2 although
> > that might not show at the current level of documentation detail.
> >
> > I wonder how changes to AOO that are user-perceived will be reflected
> in
> > the documentation. Is not the older form to be maintained so it can
> be
> > found by someone who is looking at such a version? Also, would we
> want
> > to start marking the first version for which a page or chunk of
> content
> > is current?
> >
> > Perhaps that is covered somewhere in the documentation guidance. I
> > would be grateful if someone could point me to where this sort of
> > change-accounting and feature-progression has been decided.
> >
> > - Dennis
> >
> > PS: Although these questions struck me about the User Guide, if you
> look
> > at the top-level of the MediaWiki documentation section, there are
> many
> > items that are specific to older versions that are (or may be)
> obsolete
> > with respect to newer versions of OpenOffice.
> >
> >
> >
> > -- Dennis E. Hamilton
> > orcmid@apache.org
> > dennis.hamilton@acm.org +1-206-779-9430
> > https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A
> > X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting, Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
Still ...
> [BCC to dev and users lists - please keep the conversation on doc@ for
> now, at least by BCC, since it pertains to use of the wiki(s).]
Of course, I could simply be over-thinking this whole thing and it would be more valuable to do something.
I still would like any feedback that there is before investing in something like this.
The need for development of hotfix procedures for end-users led me to elevate this lingering topic of mine for discussion. I regret not anticipating the need for better information for situations like that and user trouble-shooting as well.
- Dennis
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 10:34
> To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: [DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting,
> Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
>
>
> I notice that the User Guide draft does not provide connection to topics
> around installation, startup, and so on, at least not at the top level,
> <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/UserGuide>.
>
> The Apache OpenOffice Documentation Project page is project descriptive,
> rather than documentation descriptive,
> at <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation>. This page has a
> mix of old and somewhat recent material and a variety of formats and
> works-in-progress.
>
> I am particularly interested, myself, in information about installation,
> start up, ways of starting work with documents, saving and locating
> documents, tips for configuring for careful and systematic operation as
> well as trouble-shooting, working-around common problems, and
> limitations to be known about. I am also interested in that information
> being well-illustrated. My priority, by the way, is Windows first,
> since that represents over 85% of our user community measured by
> download statistics.
>
> These don't seem to be part of the User Guide project but there are a
> variety of places where better information could be provided.
>
> It seems to me that there are three ways to have the supporting
> documentation address this.
>
> 1. Add a section to the user guide for covering Installation,
> Configuration, Operation, Troubleshooting, and Removal. It would need
> to deal with separation of the different platforms (and their versions)
> in some clean way so that users on a particular platform can find what
> is pertinent to them and requires knowing their computer operating-
> system when it is not the same for all platforms. It would also need to
> deal with differences in AOO version functionality/caveats in some
> manner.
>
> 2. Use the current structure and update and add the information that
> seems to be important for providing the kind of documentation support I
> am speaking of, employing/expanding HOWTOs and the Frequently Asked
> Questions to tie into such material.
>
> 3. Maybe some combination, although cross-referencing might not serve
> users well unless it is smooth and frictionless (especially around users
> not losing their place based on what they are looking into).
>
> Down the road, I would think it would be good to move The Documentation
> Project to a DocumentationProject wiki topic, and have current relevant
> documentation at the Documentation topic. Older material about
> unsupported software could move to a separate topic page
> (PreviousDocumentation ?) and cleaned up, and be accessible from the
> top-level Documentation topic.
>
> Is there some coordination required about this, so that things don't be
> left in a broken, disconnected state? I think the material could be
> migrated in a way that keeps everything connected even as material is
> morphed into a new structure.
>
> - Dennis
>
> PS: I notice there were no responses to this question about how inter-
> version changes or specific-version items are identified.
>
> PPS: Something else that needs to be done is cleanup around what is
> under PDL and what is not. I would thing that needs to be attended to in
> separation of Apache Licensed material and anything that must be
> retained under PDL.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
> > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 18:17
> > To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
> > Subject: [QUESTIONS] Dealing with AOO Inter-Version Changes
> >
> > I notice that there is checking of documentation against current
> > releases of Apache OpenOffice, although that does not seem to be
> > reflected in the texts themselves, once User Guide pages are
> designated
> > as stable/"published".
> >
> > I know there were a couple of behavioral changes in AOO 4.1.2 although
> > that might not show at the current level of documentation detail.
> >
> > I wonder how changes to AOO that are user-perceived will be reflected
> in
> > the documentation. Is not the older form to be maintained so it can
> be
> > found by someone who is looking at such a version? Also, would we
> want
> > to start marking the first version for which a page or chunk of
> content
> > is current?
> >
> > Perhaps that is covered somewhere in the documentation guidance. I
> > would be grateful if someone could point me to where this sort of
> > change-accounting and feature-progression has been decided.
> >
> > - Dennis
> >
> > PS: Although these questions struck me about the User Guide, if you
> look
> > at the top-level of the MediaWiki documentation section, there are
> many
> > items that are specific to older versions that are (or may be)
> obsolete
> > with respect to newer versions of OpenOffice.
> >
> >
> >
> > -- Dennis E. Hamilton
> > orcmid@apache.org
> > dennis.hamilton@acm.org +1-206-779-9430
> > https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A
> > X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting, Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
Two things,
1. I'm retiring from involvement in community open-source work and moving to small personal and family projects. So I don't expect to do anything on doc@ after all. It seems age is catching up with me. In 2018, it will be my 60th anniversary as a software developer. In 2019 I'll be 80. I must seriously downsize.
2. On what I had in mind here:
I wasn't thinking of a HOWTO that is specific to the 4.1.2-patch1 Hotfix. I was thinking about the prerequisites. That is, having illustrated demonstrations of what it means and how to establish all of these parts:
* Ability to access and navigate the file system of your computer.
There are several specific things here, including being able to see
Details, and to see complete file names. Then there is getting in
and out of folders. Some users know very little about that, but if
someone wants to troubleshoot, they need to know. There is also the
file associations business to show folks. These things vary by
Windows version, and now within versions and also settings (e.g.,
there are several different views of the start screen/menu on
Windows 10 now).
Since Zip format support is built into Windows to give the appearance
of folders, that needs to be understood a little.
One can provide references to other resources about some of these
things.
There are other ways to learn these things and we could point to some.
The key thing is that, if we want our very-casual Windows users to
thrive with Apache OpenOffice, we need a way to have them get what
they need to do that and in particular to be able to trouble-shoot,
find their own files, etc.
Etc.
* Downloading distributions and hotfixes to a
location on your Windows PC where it can be used and its content
extracted.
* Extracting the contents of a Zip package into a folder from which
the Zipped contents can be reviewed and used.
* OPTIONAL: Confirming correctness of downloads by verifying the
hash-check (.md5, .sha1, and .sha256) files.
* OPTIONAL: Confirming correctness and authenticity of the downloads
by verifying the digital-signature (.asc) files using PGP software
and the public KEYS file obtained by you from internet location
<https://archive.apache.org/dist/openoffice/>.
* OPTIONAL: Disconnecting and reconnecting your computer from the
Internet and any other network while performing the patch procedure.
The Hotfix README has more places were general proficiency with their PC is also expected.
It takes a "beginner's mind" to tease these things out and to illustrate them with screen captures, etc.
The idea would be that in future READMEs, there would be links to where someone who didn't know about a prerequisite (or even what it meant) there would be a link to reusable material on that prerequisite or its parts.
I won't go into that here.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith N. McKenna [mailto:keith.mckenna@comcast.net]
> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 11:54
> To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup,
> Troubleshooting, Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
>
> Keith N. McKenna wrote:
> > Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> <snip>
> >
> > As far as the hot-fix it should not be to difficult to put something
> > together based on the readme files released as part of the package.
> > [/knmc]
> >> So I guess the first thing would be enough skeleton to hang those
> >> bits onto so that it can have permalinks when referenced outside of
> >> the Wiki. Then it can be updated and filled in.
> >>
> > [knmc]
> > I can do that fairly easily. The question is where do we put it.
> Should
> > it be in the HowTo's section or in the cookbook section of the User
> Guide?
> > [/knmc]
> >>
> I have added an outline as a HowTo at the following link:
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos/Install_4.1.2-
> Patch1_Hotfix.
> I can also add a link as an FAQ.
>
> Regards
> Keith
>
> <snip>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting,
Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
Keith N. McKenna wrote:
> Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
<snip>
>
> As far as the hot-fix it should not be to difficult to put something
> together based on the readme files released as part of the package.
> [/knmc]
>> So I guess the first thing would be enough skeleton to hang those
>> bits onto so that it can have permalinks when referenced outside of
>> the Wiki. Then it can be updated and filled in.
>>
> [knmc]
> I can do that fairly easily. The question is where do we put it. Should
> it be in the HowTo's section or in the cookbook section of the User Guide?
> [/knmc]
>>
I have added an outline as a HowTo at the following link:
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos/Install_4.1.2-Patch1_Hotfix.
I can also add a link as an FAQ.
Regards
Keith
<snip>
Re: [DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting,
Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> Thanks for the comments, Keith.
>
> I only knew that ODFAuthors was already in full operation when the
> Apache OpenOffice podling was created. I didn't know what the prior
> history with openoffice.org was.
>
> We shot ourselves in the foot with the ALv2 requirement, especially
> since the existing materials had many contributors and at the time
> CC-By wasn't thought to be so toxic as it is for releases. We still
> have tons of stuff under PDL and it is not thought to be awful. I
> think because it does not appear in our source-code releases.
>
> Life is still intervening. Yes, in print I would put the
> installation and trouble-shooting material in the back of the book.
> We can do something similar along the lines you align with in the web
> context, below.
>
> A minimum case, probably not well organized, would be enough web
> pages and screen captures to back up something like the 4.1.2-patch1
> README, so that people could be shown how to do all of the
> prerequisites. Those come in handy for many other cases and it would
> be great to have something to link to for situations like the hotfix
> and especially things like resetting the user profile, etc.
>
[knmc]
The case of resetting the profile is already handled as part of the
FAQ'S
<https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/General/Spellchecker_Shows_all_Word_Misspelled>
and The HowTo's
<https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos/Handling_the_OpenOffice.org_User_Profile#Resetting_the_User_Profile>
Though the HowTo article could use some rework, especially the section
on resetting the profile.
As far as the hot-fix it should not be to difficult to put something
together based on the readme files released as part of the package.
[/knmc]
> So I guess the first thing would be enough skeleton to hang those
> bits onto so that it can have permalinks when referenced outside of
> the Wiki. Then it can be updated and filled in.
>
[knmc]
I can do that fairly easily. The question is where do we put it. Should
it be in the HowTo's section or in the cookbook section of the User Guide?
[/knmc]
>
>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Keith N. McKenna
>> [mailto:keith.mckenna@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2016
>> 19:58 To: doc@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Places
>> for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting, Caveats, Tips,
>> Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
>>
>> Keith N. McKenna wrote: <snip>
>>> [knmc] I will try to put something together over the next few
>>> days as far as constructive feedback
>>>
>> Has been a little more than a few days, but as usual life has
>> intervened. My personal belief is that there was never enough
>> thought put into what the overall documentation needs of the
>> project were. The User Guide was started because many people
>> believed that we absolutely needed to have documentation under the
>> ALV2 license. That necessitated starting from scratch as the User
>> Guides, Admin Guide, etc. where all under either the PDL or CC-BY
>> and could not be used as a basis for this new documentation. I do
>> not believe that it was ever intended to cover all possible
>> documentation needs, nor should it.
>>
>> That being said I will comment on your points in-line.
>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Dennis E. Hamilton
>>>>> [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org] Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016
>>>>> 10:34 To: doc@openoffice.apache.org Subject: [DISCUSS] Places
>>>>> for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting, Caveats, Tips,
>>>>> Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I notice that the User Guide draft does not provide
>>>>> connection to topics around installation, startup, and so on,
>>>>> at least not at the top level,
>>>>> <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/UserGuide>.
>>>>>
>> [knmc} A link to the HowTo on installation has been added. Start-up
>> should be handled in the same way. As far as "and so on" I cannot
>> comment on that as it is far to vague. [/knmc]
>>
>>>>> The Apache OpenOffice Documentation Project page is project
>>>>> descriptive, rather than documentation descriptive, at
>>>>> <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation>. This page
>>>>> has a mix of old and somewhat recent material and a variety
>>>>> of formats and works-in-progress.
>>>>>
>> [knmc] As far as I know that was by design. As far as a hodge-podge
>> of material that was also partially by design and partially as a
>> consequence of the documentation team leaving the umbrella of
>> OpenOffice.org and setting up there own site at what is now the
>> ODFAuthors site. [/knmc]
>>>>> I am particularly interested, myself, in information about
>>>>> installation, start up, ways of starting work with
>>>>> documents, saving and locating documents, tips for
>>>>> configuring for careful and systematic operation as well as
>>>>> trouble-shooting, working-around common problems, and
>>>>> limitations to be known about. I am also interested in that
>>>>> information being well-illustrated. My priority, by the way,
>>>>> is Windows first, since that represents over 85% of our user
>>>>> community measured by download statistics.
>>>>>
>>>>> These don't seem to be part of the User Guide project but
>>>>> there are a variety of places where better information could
>>>>> be provided.
>>>>>
>> [knmc] They are not a part of that and it is my opinion that they
>> should not be. They should have there own section of overall
>> documentation. There is a section of the users guide called "cook
>> book" that could be used for some of this type of material.
>> [/knmc]
>>>>> It seems to me that there are three ways to have the
>>>>> supporting documentation address this.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Add a section to the user guide for covering
>>>>> Installation, Configuration, Operation, Troubleshooting, and
>>>>> Removal. It would need to deal with separation of the
>>>>> different platforms (and their versions) in some clean way so
>>>>> that users on a particular platform can find what is
>>>>> pertinent to them and requires knowing their computer
>>>>> operating- system when it is not the same for all platforms.
>>>>> It would also need to deal with differences in AOO version
>>>>> functionality/caveats in some manner.
>>>>>
>> [knmc] Again in my opinion those do not belong in a traditional
>> user guide but in a separate set of specialized docs. [/knmc]
>>>>> 2. Use the current structure and update and add the
>>>>> information that seems to be important for providing the kind
>>>>> of documentation support I am speaking of,
>>>>> employing/expanding HOWTOs and the Frequently Asked Questions
>>>>> to tie into such material.
>>>>>
>> For me this makes more sense as it makes use of existing
>> resources. [/knmc]
>>>>> 3. Maybe some combination, although cross-referencing might
>>>>> not serve users well unless it is smooth and frictionless
>>>>> (especially around users not losing their place based on what
>>>>> they are looking into).
>>>>>
>>>>> Down the road, I would think it would be good to move The
>>>>> Documentation Project to a DocumentationProject wiki topic,
>>>>> and have current relevant documentation at the Documentation
>>>>> topic. Older material about unsupported software could move
>>>>> to a separate topic page (PreviousDocumentation ?) and
>>>>> cleaned up, and be accessible from the top-level
>>>>> Documentation topic.
>>>>>
>> [knmc] This is a very good idea. There is to much clutter do to
>> years of neglect. [/knmc]
>>>>> Is there some coordination required about this, so that
>>>>> things don't be left in a broken, disconnected state? I
>>>>> think the material could be migrated in a way that keeps
>>>>> everything connected even as material is morphed into a new
>>>>> structure.
>>>>>
>> [knmc] There is definitely coordination needed. They way links and
>> categories work it can be fairly easy to leave something orphaned.
>> [/knmc]
>>>>> - Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>> PS: I notice there were no responses to this question about
>>>>> how inter- version changes or specific-version items are
>>>>> identified.
>>>>>
>>>>> PPS: Something else that needs to be done is cleanup around
>>>>> what is under PDL and what is not. I would thing that needs
>>>>> to be attended to in separation of Apache Licensed material
>>>>> and anything that must be retained under PDL.
>>>>>
>> [knmc] This is definitely something that is long overdue. However
>> it is not something I am comfortable commenting further on as I
>> have virtually no knowledge in this area. [/knmc]
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Dennis E. Hamilton
>>>>>> [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org] Sent: Sunday, January 31,
>>>>>> 2016 18:17 To: doc@openoffice.apache.org Subject:
>>>>>> [QUESTIONS] Dealing with AOO Inter-Version Changes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I notice that there is checking of documentation against
>>>>>> current releases of Apache OpenOffice, although that does
>>>>>> not seem to be reflected in the texts themselves, once User
>>>>>> Guide pages are
>>>>> designated
>>>>>> as stable/"published".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know there were a couple of behavioral changes in AOO
>>>>>> 4.1.2 although that might not show at the current level of
>>>>>> documentation detail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder how changes to AOO that are user-perceived will
>>>>>> be reflected
>>>>> in
>>>>>> the documentation. Is not the older form to be maintained
>>>>>> so it can
>>>>> be
>>>>>> found by someone who is looking at such a version? Also,
>>>>>> would we
>>>>> want
>>>>>> to start marking the first version for which a page or
>>>>>> chunk of
>>>>> content
>>>>>> is current?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps that is covered somewhere in the documentation
>>>>>> guidance. I would be grateful if someone could point me to
>>>>>> where this sort of change-accounting and
>>>>>> feature-progression has been decided.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Dennis
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PS: Although these questions struck me about the User
>>>>>> Guide, if you
>>>>> look
>>>>>> at the top-level of the MediaWiki documentation section,
>>>>>> there are
>>>>> many
>>>>>> items that are specific to older versions that are (or may
>>>>>> be)
>>>>> obsolete
>>>>>> with respect to newer versions of OpenOffice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Dennis E. Hamilton orcmid@apache.org
>>>>>> dennis.hamilton@acm.org +1-206-779-9430
>>>>>> https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A X.509
>>>>>> certs used and requested for signed e-mail
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>>>>>
--
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>>>>>> doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>>>>
-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>>>>> doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
RE: [DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting, Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
Thanks for the comments, Keith.
I only knew that ODFAuthors was already in full operation when the Apache OpenOffice podling was created. I didn't know what the prior history with openoffice.org was.
We shot ourselves in the foot with the ALv2 requirement, especially since the existing materials had many contributors and at the time CC-By wasn't thought to be so toxic as it is for releases. We still have tons of stuff under PDL and it is not thought to be awful. I think because it does not appear in our source-code releases.
Life is still intervening. Yes, in print I would put the installation and trouble-shooting material in the back of the book. We can do something similar along the lines you align with in the web context, below.
A minimum case, probably not well organized, would be enough web pages and screen captures to back up something like the 4.1.2-patch1 README, so that people could be shown how to do all of the prerequisites. Those come in handy for many other cases and it would be great to have something to link to for situations like the hotfix and especially things like resetting the user profile, etc.
So I guess the first thing would be enough skeleton to hang those bits onto so that it can have permalinks when referenced outside of the Wiki. Then it can be updated and filled in.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith N. McKenna [mailto:keith.mckenna@comcast.net]
> Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2016 19:58
> To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup,
> Troubleshooting, Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
>
> Keith N. McKenna wrote:
> <snip>
> > [knmc]
> > I will try to put something together over the next few days as far as
> > constructive feedback
> >
> Has been a little more than a few days, but as usual life has
> intervened.
> My personal belief is that there was never enough thought put into what
> the overall documentation needs of the project were. The User Guide was
> started because many people believed that we absolutely needed to have
> documentation under the ALV2 license. That necessitated starting from
> scratch as the User Guides, Admin Guide, etc. where all under either the
> PDL or CC-BY and could not be used as a basis for this new
> documentation. I do not believe that it was ever intended to cover all
> possible documentation needs, nor should it.
>
> That being said I will comment on your points in-line.
>
> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Dennis E. Hamilton
> >>> [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org] Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 10:34
> >>> To: doc@openoffice.apache.org Subject: [DISCUSS] Places for
> >>> Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting, Caveats, Tips, Workarounds,
> >>> and maybe FAQ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I notice that the User Guide draft does not provide connection to
> >>> topics around installation, startup, and so on, at least not at the
> >>> top level,
> >>> <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/UserGuide>.
> >>>
> [knmc}
> A link to the HowTo on installation has been added. Start-up should be
> handled in the same way. As far as "and so on" I cannot comment on that
> as it is far to vague.
> [/knmc]
>
> >>> The Apache OpenOffice Documentation Project page is project
> >>> descriptive, rather than documentation descriptive, at
> >>> <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation>. This page has a
> >>> mix of old and somewhat recent material and a variety of formats
> >>> and works-in-progress.
> >>>
> [knmc]
> As far as I know that was by design. As far as a hodge-podge of material
> that was also partially by design and partially as a consequence of the
> documentation team leaving the umbrella of OpenOffice.org and setting up
> there own site at what is now the ODFAuthors site.
> [/knmc]
> >>> I am particularly interested, myself, in information about
> >>> installation, start up, ways of starting work with documents,
> >>> saving and locating documents, tips for configuring for careful and
> >>> systematic operation as well as trouble-shooting, working-around
> >>> common problems, and limitations to be known about. I am also
> >>> interested in that information being well-illustrated. My
> >>> priority, by the way, is Windows first, since that represents over
> >>> 85% of our user community measured by download statistics.
> >>>
> >>> These don't seem to be part of the User Guide project but there are
> >>> a variety of places where better information could be provided.
> >>>
> [knmc]
> They are not a part of that and it is my opinion that they should not
> be. They should have there own section of overall documentation. There
> is a section of the users guide called "cook book" that could be used
> for some of this type of material.
> [/knmc]
> >>> It seems to me that there are three ways to have the supporting
> >>> documentation address this.
> >>>
> >>> 1. Add a section to the user guide for covering Installation,
> >>> Configuration, Operation, Troubleshooting, and Removal. It would
> >>> need to deal with separation of the different platforms (and their
> >>> versions) in some clean way so that users on a particular platform
> >>> can find what is pertinent to them and requires knowing their
> >>> computer operating- system when it is not the same for all
> >>> platforms. It would also need to deal with differences in AOO
> >>> version functionality/caveats in some manner.
> >>>
> [knmc]
> Again in my opinion those do not belong in a traditional user guide but
> in a separate set of specialized docs.
> [/knmc]
> >>> 2. Use the current structure and update and add the information
> >>> that seems to be important for providing the kind of documentation
> >>> support I am speaking of, employing/expanding HOWTOs and the
> >>> Frequently Asked Questions to tie into such material.
> >>>
> For me this makes more sense as it makes use of existing resources.
> [/knmc]
> >>> 3. Maybe some combination, although cross-referencing might not
> >>> serve users well unless it is smooth and frictionless (especially
> >>> around users not losing their place based on what they are looking
> >>> into).
> >>>
> >>> Down the road, I would think it would be good to move The
> >>> Documentation Project to a DocumentationProject wiki topic, and
> >>> have current relevant documentation at the Documentation topic.
> >>> Older material about unsupported software could move to a separate
> >>> topic page (PreviousDocumentation ?) and cleaned up, and be
> >>> accessible from the top-level Documentation topic.
> >>>
> [knmc]
> This is a very good idea. There is to much clutter do to years of
> neglect.
> [/knmc]
> >>> Is there some coordination required about this, so that things
> >>> don't be left in a broken, disconnected state? I think the
> >>> material could be migrated in a way that keeps everything connected
> >>> even as material is morphed into a new structure.
> >>>
> [knmc]
> There is definitely coordination needed. They way links and categories
> work it can be fairly easy to leave something orphaned.
> [/knmc]
> >>> - Dennis
> >>>
> >>> PS: I notice there were no responses to this question about how
> >>> inter- version changes or specific-version items are identified.
> >>>
> >>> PPS: Something else that needs to be done is cleanup around what
> >>> is under PDL and what is not. I would thing that needs to be
> >>> attended to in separation of Apache Licensed material and anything
> >>> that must be retained under PDL.
> >>>
> [knmc]
> This is definitely something that is long overdue. However it is not
> something I am comfortable commenting further on as I have virtually no
> knowledge in this area.
> [/knmc]
> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Dennis E. Hamilton
> >>>> [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org] Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016
> >>>> 18:17 To: doc@openoffice.apache.org Subject: [QUESTIONS] Dealing
> >>>> with AOO Inter-Version Changes
> >>>>
> >>>> I notice that there is checking of documentation against current
> >>>> releases of Apache OpenOffice, although that does not seem to be
> >>>> reflected in the texts themselves, once User Guide pages are
> >>> designated
> >>>> as stable/"published".
> >>>>
> >>>> I know there were a couple of behavioral changes in AOO 4.1.2
> >>>> although that might not show at the current level of
> >>>> documentation detail.
> >>>>
> >>>> I wonder how changes to AOO that are user-perceived will be
> >>>> reflected
> >>> in
> >>>> the documentation. Is not the older form to be maintained so it
> >>>> can
> >>> be
> >>>> found by someone who is looking at such a version? Also, would
> >>>> we
> >>> want
> >>>> to start marking the first version for which a page or chunk of
> >>> content
> >>>> is current?
> >>>>
> >>>> Perhaps that is covered somewhere in the documentation guidance.
> >>>> I would be grateful if someone could point me to where this sort
> >>>> of change-accounting and feature-progression has been decided.
> >>>>
> >>>> - Dennis
> >>>>
> >>>> PS: Although these questions struck me about the User Guide, if
> >>>> you
> >>> look
> >>>> at the top-level of the MediaWiki documentation section, there
> >>>> are
> >>> many
> >>>> items that are specific to older versions that are (or may be)
> >>> obsolete
> >>>> with respect to newer versions of OpenOffice.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Dennis E. Hamilton orcmid@apache.org dennis.hamilton@acm.org
> >>>> +1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456
> >>>> 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> >>>>
> >>>>
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> >>>
> >>>
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting,
Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
Keith N. McKenna wrote:
<snip>
> [knmc]
> I will try to put something together over the next few days as far as
> constructive feedback
>
Has been a little more than a few days, but as usual life has
intervened.
My personal belief is that there was never enough thought put into what
the overall documentation needs of the project were. The User Guide was
started because many people believed that we absolutely needed to have
documentation under the ALV2 license. That necessitated starting from
scratch as the User Guides, Admin Guide, etc. where all under either the
PDL or CC-BY and could not be used as a basis for this new
documentation. I do not believe that it was ever intended to cover all
possible documentation needs, nor should it.
That being said I will comment on your points in-line.
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Dennis E. Hamilton
>>> [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org] Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 10:34
>>> To: doc@openoffice.apache.org Subject: [DISCUSS] Places for
>>> Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting, Caveats, Tips, Workarounds,
>>> and maybe FAQ?
>>>
>>>
>>> I notice that the User Guide draft does not provide connection to
>>> topics around installation, startup, and so on, at least not at the
>>> top level,
>>> <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/UserGuide>.
>>>
[knmc}
A link to the HowTo on installation has been added. Start-up should be
handled in the same way. As far as "and so on" I cannot comment on that
as it is far to vague.
[/knmc]
>>> The Apache OpenOffice Documentation Project page is project
>>> descriptive, rather than documentation descriptive, at
>>> <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation>. This page has a
>>> mix of old and somewhat recent material and a variety of formats
>>> and works-in-progress.
>>>
[knmc]
As far as I know that was by design. As far as a hodge-podge of material
that was also partially by design and partially as a consequence of the
documentation team leaving the umbrella of OpenOffice.org and setting up
there own site at what is now the ODFAuthors site.
[/knmc]
>>> I am particularly interested, myself, in information about
>>> installation, start up, ways of starting work with documents,
>>> saving and locating documents, tips for configuring for careful and
>>> systematic operation as well as trouble-shooting, working-around
>>> common problems, and limitations to be known about. I am also
>>> interested in that information being well-illustrated. My
>>> priority, by the way, is Windows first, since that represents over
>>> 85% of our user community measured by download statistics.
>>>
>>> These don't seem to be part of the User Guide project but there are
>>> a variety of places where better information could be provided.
>>>
[knmc]
They are not a part of that and it is my opinion that they should not
be. They should have there own section of overall documentation. There
is a section of the users guide called "cook book" that could be used
for some of this type of material.
[/knmc]
>>> It seems to me that there are three ways to have the supporting
>>> documentation address this.
>>>
>>> 1. Add a section to the user guide for covering Installation,
>>> Configuration, Operation, Troubleshooting, and Removal. It would
>>> need to deal with separation of the different platforms (and their
>>> versions) in some clean way so that users on a particular platform
>>> can find what is pertinent to them and requires knowing their
>>> computer operating- system when it is not the same for all
>>> platforms. It would also need to deal with differences in AOO
>>> version functionality/caveats in some manner.
>>>
[knmc]
Again in my opinion those do not belong in a traditional user guide but
in a separate set of specialized docs.
[/knmc]
>>> 2. Use the current structure and update and add the information
>>> that seems to be important for providing the kind of documentation
>>> support I am speaking of, employing/expanding HOWTOs and the
>>> Frequently Asked Questions to tie into such material.
>>>
For me this makes more sense as it makes use of existing resources.
[/knmc]
>>> 3. Maybe some combination, although cross-referencing might not
>>> serve users well unless it is smooth and frictionless (especially
>>> around users not losing their place based on what they are looking
>>> into).
>>>
>>> Down the road, I would think it would be good to move The
>>> Documentation Project to a DocumentationProject wiki topic, and
>>> have current relevant documentation at the Documentation topic.
>>> Older material about unsupported software could move to a separate
>>> topic page (PreviousDocumentation ?) and cleaned up, and be
>>> accessible from the top-level Documentation topic.
>>>
[knmc]
This is a very good idea. There is to much clutter do to years of neglect.
[/knmc]
>>> Is there some coordination required about this, so that things
>>> don't be left in a broken, disconnected state? I think the
>>> material could be migrated in a way that keeps everything connected
>>> even as material is morphed into a new structure.
>>>
[knmc]
There is definitely coordination needed. They way links and categories
work it can be fairly easy to leave something orphaned.
[/knmc]
>>> - Dennis
>>>
>>> PS: I notice there were no responses to this question about how
>>> inter- version changes or specific-version items are identified.
>>>
>>> PPS: Something else that needs to be done is cleanup around what
>>> is under PDL and what is not. I would thing that needs to be
>>> attended to in separation of Apache Licensed material and anything
>>> that must be retained under PDL.
>>>
[knmc]
This is definitely something that is long overdue. However it is not
something I am comfortable commenting further on as I have virtually no
knowledge in this area.
[/knmc]
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Dennis E. Hamilton
>>>> [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org] Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016
>>>> 18:17 To: doc@openoffice.apache.org Subject: [QUESTIONS] Dealing
>>>> with AOO Inter-Version Changes
>>>>
>>>> I notice that there is checking of documentation against current
>>>> releases of Apache OpenOffice, although that does not seem to be
>>>> reflected in the texts themselves, once User Guide pages are
>>> designated
>>>> as stable/"published".
>>>>
>>>> I know there were a couple of behavioral changes in AOO 4.1.2
>>>> although that might not show at the current level of
>>>> documentation detail.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how changes to AOO that are user-perceived will be
>>>> reflected
>>> in
>>>> the documentation. Is not the older form to be maintained so it
>>>> can
>>> be
>>>> found by someone who is looking at such a version? Also, would
>>>> we
>>> want
>>>> to start marking the first version for which a page or chunk of
>>> content
>>>> is current?
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps that is covered somewhere in the documentation guidance.
>>>> I would be grateful if someone could point me to where this sort
>>>> of change-accounting and feature-progression has been decided.
>>>>
>>>> - Dennis
>>>>
>>>> PS: Although these questions struck me about the User Guide, if
>>>> you
>>> look
>>>> at the top-level of the MediaWiki documentation section, there
>>>> are
>>> many
>>>> items that are specific to older versions that are (or may be)
>>> obsolete
>>>> with respect to newer versions of OpenOffice.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Dennis E. Hamilton orcmid@apache.org dennis.hamilton@acm.org
>>>> +1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456
>>>> 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting,
Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> Still ...
>> [BCC to dev and users lists - please keep the conversation on doc@
>> for now, at least by BCC, since it pertains to use of the
>> wiki(s).]
>
> Of course, I could simply be over-thinking this whole thing and it
> would be more valuable to do something.
>
[knmc]
Sometimes over thinking can be a good thing as it can lead to needed
improvements. We just have to keep in mind what we can do with the
available resources.
> I still would like any feedback that there is before investing in
> something like this.
>
[knmc]
I will try to put something together over the next few days as far as
constructive feedback
> The need for development of hotfix procedures for end-users led me to
> elevate this lingering topic of mine for discussion. I regret not
> anticipating the need for better information for situations like that
> and user trouble-shooting as well.
>
[knmc]
end user procedures for hot fixes need to be a part of an over-all
process for dealing with the root cause of the fix especially for
security issues.
> - Dennis
>
Pax
Keith
>> -----Original Message----- From: Dennis E. Hamilton
>> [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org] Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 10:34
>> To: doc@openoffice.apache.org Subject: [DISCUSS] Places for
>> Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting, Caveats, Tips, Workarounds,
>> and maybe FAQ?
>>
>>
>> I notice that the User Guide draft does not provide connection to
>> topics around installation, startup, and so on, at least not at the
>> top level,
>> <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/UserGuide>.
>>
>> The Apache OpenOffice Documentation Project page is project
>> descriptive, rather than documentation descriptive, at
>> <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation>. This page has a
>> mix of old and somewhat recent material and a variety of formats
>> and works-in-progress.
>>
>> I am particularly interested, myself, in information about
>> installation, start up, ways of starting work with documents,
>> saving and locating documents, tips for configuring for careful and
>> systematic operation as well as trouble-shooting, working-around
>> common problems, and limitations to be known about. I am also
>> interested in that information being well-illustrated. My
>> priority, by the way, is Windows first, since that represents over
>> 85% of our user community measured by download statistics.
>>
>> These don't seem to be part of the User Guide project but there are
>> a variety of places where better information could be provided.
>>
>> It seems to me that there are three ways to have the supporting
>> documentation address this.
>>
>> 1. Add a section to the user guide for covering Installation,
>> Configuration, Operation, Troubleshooting, and Removal. It would
>> need to deal with separation of the different platforms (and their
>> versions) in some clean way so that users on a particular platform
>> can find what is pertinent to them and requires knowing their
>> computer operating- system when it is not the same for all
>> platforms. It would also need to deal with differences in AOO
>> version functionality/caveats in some manner.
>>
>> 2. Use the current structure and update and add the information
>> that seems to be important for providing the kind of documentation
>> support I am speaking of, employing/expanding HOWTOs and the
>> Frequently Asked Questions to tie into such material.
>>
>> 3. Maybe some combination, although cross-referencing might not
>> serve users well unless it is smooth and frictionless (especially
>> around users not losing their place based on what they are looking
>> into).
>>
>> Down the road, I would think it would be good to move The
>> Documentation Project to a DocumentationProject wiki topic, and
>> have current relevant documentation at the Documentation topic.
>> Older material about unsupported software could move to a separate
>> topic page (PreviousDocumentation ?) and cleaned up, and be
>> accessible from the top-level Documentation topic.
>>
>> Is there some coordination required about this, so that things
>> don't be left in a broken, disconnected state? I think the
>> material could be migrated in a way that keeps everything connected
>> even as material is morphed into a new structure.
>>
>> - Dennis
>>
>> PS: I notice there were no responses to this question about how
>> inter- version changes or specific-version items are identified.
>>
>> PPS: Something else that needs to be done is cleanup around what
>> is under PDL and what is not. I would thing that needs to be
>> attended to in separation of Apache Licensed material and anything
>> that must be retained under PDL.
>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Dennis E. Hamilton
>>> [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org] Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016
>>> 18:17 To: doc@openoffice.apache.org Subject: [QUESTIONS] Dealing
>>> with AOO Inter-Version Changes
>>>
>>> I notice that there is checking of documentation against current
>>> releases of Apache OpenOffice, although that does not seem to be
>>> reflected in the texts themselves, once User Guide pages are
>> designated
>>> as stable/"published".
>>>
>>> I know there were a couple of behavioral changes in AOO 4.1.2
>>> although that might not show at the current level of
>>> documentation detail.
>>>
>>> I wonder how changes to AOO that are user-perceived will be
>>> reflected
>> in
>>> the documentation. Is not the older form to be maintained so it
>>> can
>> be
>>> found by someone who is looking at such a version? Also, would
>>> we
>> want
>>> to start marking the first version for which a page or chunk of
>> content
>>> is current?
>>>
>>> Perhaps that is covered somewhere in the documentation guidance.
>>> I would be grateful if someone could point me to where this sort
>>> of change-accounting and feature-progression has been decided.
>>>
>>> - Dennis
>>>
>>> PS: Although these questions struck me about the User Guide, if
>>> you
>> look
>>> at the top-level of the MediaWiki documentation section, there
>>> are
>> many
>>> items that are specific to older versions that are (or may be)
>> obsolete
>>> with respect to newer versions of OpenOffice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Dennis E. Hamilton orcmid@apache.org dennis.hamilton@acm.org
>>> +1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456
>>> 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
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>>
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