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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> on 2016/01/24 22:08:08 UTC
[math] Name of the new TLP
We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
be offended if others want to be more creative.
My suggestion is
MathComponents
Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
Phil
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
On Jan 24, 2016 1:08 PM, "Phil Steitz" <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>
> My suggestion is
>
> MathComponents
>
> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
Simple and to the point, I like it!
+1
Gary
>
> Phil
>
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Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 3:05 PM, Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> 2016-02-01 14:49 GMT+01:00 Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>:
> ...Bertrand Delacretaz proposed to use the Podling Name Search Jira project
> for this [1]. I think that is a good idea for documentation purposes...
Note that this is just to verify that the name is fine in terms of
trademarks - how you decide on the name is really up to the PMC.
-Bertrand
> [1] http://markmail.org/message/o6dz6ibjte75luya
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Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org>.
2016-02-01 14:49 GMT+01:00 Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>:
> On 2/1/16 6:24 AM, Gilles wrote:
> > On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 06:20:14 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
> >> Unscientifically, but in the interest of keeping things moving, it
> >> looks to me like just plain "math" is the winner. Any objections to
> >> moving forward with this name?
> >>
> >> Phil
> >
> > Proposals were not all presented when people gave opinions.
> > A [VOTE] perhaps?
>
> Yes, we could do a poll and if you or others feel that is necessary,
> I will kick it off. It just looked to me like we were close enough
> to consensus on math as the name to make it binary. Do you have
> objections to that name? Does anyone else prefer to do a poll?
>
Bertrand Delacretaz proposed to use the Podling Name Search Jira project
for this [1]. I think that is a good idea for documentation purposes.
Regards,
Benedikt
[1] http://markmail.org/message/o6dz6ibjte75luya
>
> Phil
> >
> > Actually: Who should vote, or not?
> > [Logic would have it that people they do not intend to join
> > development of the new project should not...]
> >
> > Gilles
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
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--
http://home.apache.org/~britter/
http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter
http://github.com/britter
Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 2/1/16 7:49 AM, Gilles wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 06:49:02 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>> On 2/1/16 6:24 AM, Gilles wrote:
>>> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 06:20:14 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>> Unscientifically, but in the interest of keeping things moving, it
>>>> looks to me like just plain "math" is the winner. Any
>>>> objections to
>>>> moving forward with this name?
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>
>>> Proposals were not all presented when people gave opinions.
>>> A [VOTE] perhaps?
>>
>> Yes, we could do a poll and if you or others feel that is necessary,
>> I will kick it off. It just looked to me like we were close enough
>> to consensus on math as the name to make it binary.
>
> Not if you please take into account my remark below.
OK, I will kick of a poll, including all names suggested in this
thread.
Phil
>
>> Do you have
>> objections to that name?
>
> Yes.
>
> "Math" is (a bit?) overwhelming for a team of 5- people.
>
> In "Commons" there was the rationale of accepting only "common"
> algorithms (although that was fairly fuzzy as a limitation).
> Not so with that overly general name.
> It's a library that will contain math, yes; all of math, certainly
> not.
> So the name is just a name; it should point to project, not to a
> general concept.
>
> Gilles
>
>> Does anyone else prefer to do a poll?
>>
>> Phil
>>>
>>> Actually: Who should vote, or not?
>>> [Logic would have it that people they do not intend to join
>>> development of the new project should not...]
>>>
>>> Gilles
>
>
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>
> .
>
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Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
Good question. I have proposed it many times in the past
On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 5:03 PM Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 15:05:57 +0000, James Carman wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:50 AM Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> "Math" is (a bit?) overwhelming for a team of 5- people.
> >>
> >> In "Commons" there was the rationale of accepting only "common"
> >> algorithms (although that was fairly fuzzy as a limitation).
> >> Not so with that overly general name.
> >> It's a library that will contain math, yes; all of math, certainly
> >> not.
> >> So the name is just a name; it should point to project, not to a
> >> general concept.
> >>
> >>
> > The TLP move for Apache Math will help it gain some visibility and
> > also
> > give it the ability to branch out to new areas. There's nothing
> > saying
> > that the current 5 people are the only ones who will ever work on it.
> > The
> > idea is to grow the library.
>
> Having Math in Commons did not prevent anyone who wanted to join.
> If history of the last 10 years can be a guide, then there is nothing
> saying that candidates will suddenly become plenty.
> If it were obvious that the TLP move was the way to go to gain more
> visibility, then why did it take so long to do it? ;-)
>
> Gilles
>
>
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>
Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 2/2/16 12:11 PM, Eric Barnhill wrote:
> Congratulations to the math team for the exciting news of starting
> the new TLP. Sorry to have promised some developments in December
> that I have not yet delivered. Our immigration situation changed
> and we had to move overseas. I should get the contributions out of
> the docket this month.
Welcome! We look forward to you contributions.
Phil
>
> -Eric
>
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Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Eric Barnhill <er...@gmail.com>.
Congratulations to the math team for the exciting news of starting the
new TLP. Sorry to have promised some developments in December that I
have not yet delivered. Our immigration situation changed and we had to
move overseas. I should get the contributions out of the docket this month.
-Eric
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Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 15:05:57 +0000, James Carman wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:50 AM Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Math" is (a bit?) overwhelming for a team of 5- people.
>>
>> In "Commons" there was the rationale of accepting only "common"
>> algorithms (although that was fairly fuzzy as a limitation).
>> Not so with that overly general name.
>> It's a library that will contain math, yes; all of math, certainly
>> not.
>> So the name is just a name; it should point to project, not to a
>> general concept.
>>
>>
> The TLP move for Apache Math will help it gain some visibility and
> also
> give it the ability to branch out to new areas. There's nothing
> saying
> that the current 5 people are the only ones who will ever work on it.
> The
> idea is to grow the library.
Having Math in Commons did not prevent anyone who wanted to join.
If history of the last 10 years can be a guide, then there is nothing
saying that candidates will suddenly become plenty.
If it were obvious that the TLP move was the way to go to gain more
visibility, then why did it take so long to do it? ;-)
Gilles
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Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:50 AM Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>
> "Math" is (a bit?) overwhelming for a team of 5- people.
>
> In "Commons" there was the rationale of accepting only "common"
> algorithms (although that was fairly fuzzy as a limitation).
> Not so with that overly general name.
> It's a library that will contain math, yes; all of math, certainly
> not.
> So the name is just a name; it should point to project, not to a
> general concept.
>
>
The TLP move for Apache Math will help it gain some visibility and also
give it the ability to branch out to new areas. There's nothing saying
that the current 5 people are the only ones who will ever work on it. The
idea is to grow the library.
Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 06:49:02 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
> On 2/1/16 6:24 AM, Gilles wrote:
>> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 06:20:14 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>> Unscientifically, but in the interest of keeping things moving, it
>>> looks to me like just plain "math" is the winner. Any objections
>>> to
>>> moving forward with this name?
>>>
>>> Phil
>>
>> Proposals were not all presented when people gave opinions.
>> A [VOTE] perhaps?
>
> Yes, we could do a poll and if you or others feel that is necessary,
> I will kick it off. It just looked to me like we were close enough
> to consensus on math as the name to make it binary.
Not if you please take into account my remark below.
> Do you have
> objections to that name?
Yes.
"Math" is (a bit?) overwhelming for a team of 5- people.
In "Commons" there was the rationale of accepting only "common"
algorithms (although that was fairly fuzzy as a limitation).
Not so with that overly general name.
It's a library that will contain math, yes; all of math, certainly
not.
So the name is just a name; it should point to project, not to a
general concept.
Gilles
> Does anyone else prefer to do a poll?
>
> Phil
>>
>> Actually: Who should vote, or not?
>> [Logic would have it that people they do not intend to join
>> development of the new project should not...]
>>
>> Gilles
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Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 2/1/16 6:24 AM, Gilles wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 06:20:14 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>> Unscientifically, but in the interest of keeping things moving, it
>> looks to me like just plain "math" is the winner. Any objections to
>> moving forward with this name?
>>
>> Phil
>
> Proposals were not all presented when people gave opinions.
> A [VOTE] perhaps?
Yes, we could do a poll and if you or others feel that is necessary,
I will kick it off. It just looked to me like we were close enough
to consensus on math as the name to make it binary. Do you have
objections to that name? Does anyone else prefer to do a poll?
Phil
>
> Actually: Who should vote, or not?
> [Logic would have it that people they do not intend to join
> development of the new project should not...]
>
> Gilles
>
>
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Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 11:33:38 +0000, Mark Thomas wrote:
> On 02/02/2016 11:19, Gilles wrote:
>> On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 01:49:21 -0500, Christopher wrote:
>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Gilles
>>> <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 06:20:14 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Unscientifically, but in the interest of keeping things moving,
>>>>> it
>>>>> looks to me like just plain "math" is the winner. Any objections
>>>>> to
>>>>> moving forward with this name?
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Proposals were not all presented when people gave opinions.
>>>> A [VOTE] perhaps?
>>>>
>>>> Actually: Who should vote, or not?
>>>> [Logic would have it that people they do not intend to join
>>>> development of the new project should not...]
>>>
>>> Users have a huge stake in the name. They will be the ones trying
>>> to
>>> remember the project name when adding it as a dependency, after
>>> all.
>>
>> Hmm, do you have many examples of a project that was not named by
>> its
>> inceptors?
>>
>> Remember? Remember what?
>> Users would just have to find the project once in its lifetime, and
>> copy that into their dependency file.
>>
>> From a user's perspective, just "Math" is the worst possible choice:
>> if
>> you use a search engine to get to one of the project's pages, you'll
>> get
>> many more hits related to "math" in general than to the Java project
>> of
>> that name.
>
> Many Apache projects won't appear near the top of search results
> unless
> preceded by Apache. Searching for "Apache Math" should get a user to
> exactly where they want to be.
Yes, of course.
Then type "Openoffice", without "Apache", (since that is the example
which
you use below) and see what you get.
Not so with just "Math".
Commons Math appears at the bottom of the third page.
That was my point, no more no less.
[With "java math", Commons Math appears at the bottom of the first
page.]
>
>> Moreover, from the majority of Apache projects' names, it is
>> impossible
>> to tell what what they are about.
>> Which is right (most of the time) since the name is usually some
>> sort
>> of acronym.
>
> That is simply a choice of name style.
>
>> Even when the emblematic web server needed a name, they did not end
>> up
>> with "WebServer"!
>
> No, they went with "HTTP Server" or, to use the full name, "Apache
> HTTP
> Server".
IIUC the story told here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_HTTP_Server
the name was chosen as "Apache".
Before the naming became an issue fro the developers, it didn't have
name per se in the sense which we intend in this discussion.
Then, with the Foundation named after its core product name, it was
perhaps sensible to return to the simple "HTTP server".
[This was a bad example in the sense that "HTTP server" is one of a
kind
(in the historic perspective).]
> SpamAssassin and OpenOffice are two other significant projects
> where the project name relates directly to what they are used for.
>
> And those three projects are some of the biggest, if not the three
> biggest, in terms of user base across the ASF.
?
Those are fine as names IMO (i.e. I guess that no other project
would claim ownership of those names).
Not so with "Math".
Gilles
> Of all the suggestions "Apache Math" makes the most sense to me.
>
> Mark
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Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 02/02/2016 11:19, Gilles wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 01:49:21 -0500, Christopher wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>
>> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 06:20:14 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Unscientifically, but in the interest of keeping things moving, it
>>>> looks to me like just plain "math" is the winner. Any objections to
>>>> moving forward with this name?
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>> Proposals were not all presented when people gave opinions.
>>> A [VOTE] perhaps?
>>>
>>> Actually: Who should vote, or not?
>>> [Logic would have it that people they do not intend to join
>>> development of the new project should not...]
>>
>> Users have a huge stake in the name. They will be the ones trying to
>> remember the project name when adding it as a dependency, after all.
>
> Hmm, do you have many examples of a project that was not named by its
> inceptors?
>
> Remember? Remember what?
> Users would just have to find the project once in its lifetime, and
> copy that into their dependency file.
>
> From a user's perspective, just "Math" is the worst possible choice: if
> you use a search engine to get to one of the project's pages, you'll get
> many more hits related to "math" in general than to the Java project of
> that name.
Many Apache projects won't appear near the top of search results unless
preceded by Apache. Searching for "Apache Math" should get a user to
exactly where they want to be.
> Moreover, from the majority of Apache projects' names, it is impossible
> to tell what what they are about.
> Which is right (most of the time) since the name is usually some sort
> of acronym.
That is simply a choice of name style.
> Even when the emblematic web server needed a name, they did not end up
> with "WebServer"!
No, they went with "HTTP Server" or, to use the full name, "Apache HTTP
Server". SpamAssassin and OpenOffice are two other significant projects
where the project name relates directly to what they are used for.
And those three projects are some of the biggest, if not the three
biggest, in terms of user base across the ASF.
Of all the suggestions "Apache Math" makes the most sense to me.
Mark
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Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
> ...From a user's perspective, just "Math" is the worst possible choice: if
> you use a search engine to get to one of the project's pages, you'll get
> many more hits related to "math" in general than to the Java project of
> that name...
Note that it would be "Apache Math" anyway.
-Bertrand
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Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 01:49:21 -0500, Christopher wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>
> wrote:
>> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 06:20:14 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>
>>> Unscientifically, but in the interest of keeping things moving, it
>>> looks to me like just plain "math" is the winner. Any objections
>>> to
>>> moving forward with this name?
>>>
>>> Phil
>>
>>
>> Proposals were not all presented when people gave opinions.
>> A [VOTE] perhaps?
>>
>> Actually: Who should vote, or not?
>> [Logic would have it that people they do not intend to join
>> development of the new project should not...]
>
> Users have a huge stake in the name. They will be the ones trying to
> remember the project name when adding it as a dependency, after all.
Hmm, do you have many examples of a project that was not named by its
inceptors?
Remember? Remember what?
Users would just have to find the project once in its lifetime, and
copy that into their dependency file.
From a user's perspective, just "Math" is the worst possible choice: if
you use a search engine to get to one of the project's pages, you'll
get
many more hits related to "math" in general than to the Java project of
that name.
Moreover, from the majority of Apache projects' names, it is impossible
to tell what what they are about.
Which is right (most of the time) since the name is usually some sort
of acronym.
Even when the emblematic web server needed a name, they did not end up
with "WebServer"!
Gilles
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Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Christopher <ct...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 06:20:14 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>
>> Unscientifically, but in the interest of keeping things moving, it
>> looks to me like just plain "math" is the winner. Any objections to
>> moving forward with this name?
>>
>> Phil
>
>
> Proposals were not all presented when people gave opinions.
> A [VOTE] perhaps?
>
> Actually: Who should vote, or not?
> [Logic would have it that people they do not intend to join
> development of the new project should not...]
Users have a huge stake in the name. They will be the ones trying to
remember the project name when adding it as a dependency, after all.
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Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 06:20:14 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
> Unscientifically, but in the interest of keeping things moving, it
> looks to me like just plain "math" is the winner. Any objections to
> moving forward with this name?
>
> Phil
Proposals were not all presented when people gave opinions.
A [VOTE] perhaps?
Actually: Who should vote, or not?
[Logic would have it that people they do not intend to join
development of the new project should not...]
Gilles
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[RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
Unscientifically, but in the interest of keeping things moving, it
looks to me like just plain "math" is the winner. Any objections to
moving forward with this name?
Phil
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Shuan Yang <ya...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 9:21 PM, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Any reason why you're not going with Apache Math - math.apache.org?
>
+1
Yang
2016-01-26 13:58 GMT+08:00 Chas Honton <ch...@honton.org>:
> Using the list from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areas_of_mathematics,
> the current commons math appears to be a sub-set of numerical analysis
> algorithms. Is this correct? Will this continue be the focus of a math
> tlp?
>
> Unfortunately, Apache Numerical Analysis does not trip off the tongue.
>
> Chas
>
> > On Jan 25, 2016, at 9:21 PM, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Any reason why you're not going with Apache Math - math.apache.org?
> >
> > No one is going to wince if you have other language implementations in
> the
> > same project, and if it needs to break up over time because there is
> Apache
> > Math GroupTheory, Apache Math Fluid Dynamics etc etc; then more power to
> > y'all.
> >
> > Hen
> >
> >
> >> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
> >> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
> >> be offended if others want to be more creative.
> >>
> >> My suggestion is
> >>
> >> MathComponents
> >>
> >> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 1/25/16 10:58 PM, Chas Honton wrote:
> Using the list from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areas_of_mathematics, the current commons math appears to be a sub-set of numerical analysis algorithms. Is this correct?
We also have some statistics, geometry, machine learning and various
other things, so while a lot of what we have could be clubbed under
numerical analysis, that is not all there is. Also, there is a fair
amount of basic numerical analysis missing. Patches welcome :)
Phil
> Will this continue be the focus of a math tlp?
>
> Unfortunately, Apache Numerical Analysis does not trip off the tongue.
>
> Chas
>
>> On Jan 25, 2016, at 9:21 PM, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Any reason why you're not going with Apache Math - math.apache.org?
>>
>> No one is going to wince if you have other language implementations in the
>> same project, and if it needs to break up over time because there is Apache
>> Math GroupTheory, Apache Math Fluid Dynamics etc etc; then more power to
>> y'all.
>>
>> Hen
>>
>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>
>>> My suggestion is
>>>
>>> MathComponents
>>>
>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Chas Honton <ch...@honton.org>.
Using the list from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areas_of_mathematics, the current commons math appears to be a sub-set of numerical analysis algorithms. Is this correct? Will this continue be the focus of a math tlp?
Unfortunately, Apache Numerical Analysis does not trip off the tongue.
Chas
> On Jan 25, 2016, at 9:21 PM, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Any reason why you're not going with Apache Math - math.apache.org?
>
> No one is going to wince if you have other language implementations in the
> same project, and if it needs to break up over time because there is Apache
> Math GroupTheory, Apache Math Fluid Dynamics etc etc; then more power to
> y'all.
>
> Hen
>
>
>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>
>> My suggestion is
>>
>> MathComponents
>>
>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 9:21 PM, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Any reason why you're not going with Apache Math - math.apache.org?
>
+1!
Gary
>
> No one is going to wince if you have other language implementations in the
> same project, and if it needs to break up over time because there is Apache
> Math GroupTheory, Apache Math Fluid Dynamics etc etc; then more power to
> y'all.
>
> Hen
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
> > descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
> > be offended if others want to be more creative.
> >
> > My suggestion is
> >
> > MathComponents
> >
> > Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >
> >
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
Any reason why you're not going with Apache Math - math.apache.org?
No one is going to wince if you have other language implementations in the
same project, and if it needs to break up over time because there is Apache
Math GroupTheory, Apache Math Fluid Dynamics etc etc; then more power to
y'all.
Hen
On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>
> My suggestion is
>
> MathComponents
>
> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>
> Phil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
>
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
Maybe Apache Gauss?
On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:16 PM James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>
wrote:
> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I understand.
> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache Euler?
> Apache Euclid?
>
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>
>> My suggestion is
>>
>> MathComponents
>>
>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
I googled that but didn't find anything compelling. I love the idea.
On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:54 PM Hasan Diwan <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If we are to choose a famous person's name, why not a famous native
> American mathematician? I'm not aware of any, but it would be keeping with
> the traditions of Apache, being a native American tribe, Geronimo being a
> native American chief, as well as a few others. -- H
>
> On 24 January 2016 at 13:51, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 24, 2016 1:46 PM, "Phil Steitz" <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
> > > > I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
> > >
> > > This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
> > > forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
> > > suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
> > > general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
> > > easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common math
> > > programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
> > > almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
> > > "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
> > > Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
> > > suggested the same approach to naming.
> > >
> > > Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
> > > that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
> > > and / or cultural bias into the name.
> >
> > +1
> >
> > Cute names end up being a hindrance IMO. How much clearer is "Apache
> > Commmons Imaging" that Sanselan (which I was never sure how to spell)?
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > >
> > > Phil
> > > > Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
> > understand.
> > > > Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache
> Euler?
> > > > Apache Euclid?
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
> > > >> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
> > > >> be offended if others want to be more creative.
> > > >>
> > > >> My suggestion is
> > > >>
> > > >> MathComponents
> > > >>
> > > >> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
> > > >>
> > > >> Phil
> > > >>
> > > >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> OpenPGP: https://hasan.d8u.us/gpg.key
> Sent from my mobile device
> Envoyé de mon portable
>
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Hasan Diwan <ha...@gmail.com>.
If we are to choose a famous person's name, why not a famous native
American mathematician? I'm not aware of any, but it would be keeping with
the traditions of Apache, being a native American tribe, Geronimo being a
native American chief, as well as a few others. -- H
On 24 January 2016 at 13:51, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 2016 1:46 PM, "Phil Steitz" <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
> > > I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
> >
> > This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
> > forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
> > suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
> > general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
> > easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common math
> > programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
> > almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
> > "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
> > Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
> > suggested the same approach to naming.
> >
> > Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
> > that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
> > and / or cultural bias into the name.
>
> +1
>
> Cute names end up being a hindrance IMO. How much clearer is "Apache
> Commmons Imaging" that Sanselan (which I was never sure how to spell)?
>
> Gary
>
> >
> > Phil
> > > Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
> understand.
> > > Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache Euler?
> > > Apache Euclid?
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
> > >> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
> > >> be offended if others want to be more creative.
> > >>
> > >> My suggestion is
> > >>
> > >> MathComponents
> > >>
> > >> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
> > >>
> > >> Phil
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >
>
--
OpenPGP: https://hasan.d8u.us/gpg.key
Sent from my mobile device
Envoyé de mon portable
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
On Jan 24, 2016 1:46 PM, "Phil Steitz" <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
> > I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
>
> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common math
> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
> suggested the same approach to naming.
>
> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
> and / or cultural bias into the name.
+1
Cute names end up being a hindrance IMO. How much clearer is "Apache
Commmons Imaging" that Sanselan (which I was never sure how to spell)?
Gary
>
> Phil
> > Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
understand.
> > Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache Euler?
> > Apache Euclid?
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> >> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
> >> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
> >> be offended if others want to be more creative.
> >>
> >> My suggestion is
> >>
> >> MathComponents
> >>
> >> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>.
I like Apache Math as well.
Cheers,
Ole
On 01/24/2016 04:18 PM, James Carman wrote:
> I'm okay with that too. Apache Math
>
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 5:17 PM Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>
>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>> Or is it taken already?
>>
>> Gilles
>>
>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common math
>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>
>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>>>> understand.
>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache
>>>> Euler?
>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>
>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>
>>>>> MathComponents
>>>>>
>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
I'm okay with that too. Apache Math
On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 5:17 PM Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
> Or is it taken already?
>
> Gilles
>
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
> > On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
> >> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
> >
> > This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
> > forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
> > suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
> > general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
> > easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common math
> > programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
> > almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
> > "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
> > Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
> > suggested the same approach to naming.
> >
> > Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
> > that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
> > and / or cultural bias into the name.
> >
> > Phil
> >> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
> >> understand.
> >> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache
> >> Euler?
> >> Apache Euclid?
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
> >>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
> >>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
> >>>
> >>> My suggestion is
> >>>
> >>> MathComponents
> >>>
> >>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
> >>>
> >>> Phil
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
>
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Hasan Diwan <ha...@gmail.com>.
Megginson is a Souix mathematician , so perhaps Meggison.apache.org ? -- H
On 24 January 2016 at 23:52, Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I very much like the idea of taking the name of a famous mathematician.
> If it has to be some thing more descriptive: Apache Commons HttpClient went
> to Apache HttpComponents. How about Apache Math Components as TLP name?
>
> Benedikt
>
> 2016-01-25 8:40 GMT+01:00 Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>:
>
> > Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
> > networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an umbrella.
> Some
> > of the other Apache projects that do math may be interested in moving
> that
> > piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
> >
> > Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated to the
> > subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc So:
> > apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a whole with
> the
> > documentation that cuts across modules)
> > apache-math-linear-real
> > apache-math-linear-field
> > apache-math-optimization-genetic
> > apache-math-optimization-simplex
> > etc.
> >
> > And hopefully:
> > apache-math-optimization-integer
> > apache-math-optimization-mixed
> > And more..
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Ole
> >
> >
> > On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
> >>> Or is it taken already?
> >>>
> >> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in fact
> >> umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do math-relates
> things. I
> >> think adding "components" makes it look more like a library of base
> >> components that other math-related projects can use.
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >>> Gilles
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
> >>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
> >>>>>
> >>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
> >>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
> >>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
> >>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
> >>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common math
> >>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
> >>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
> >>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
> >>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
> >>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
> >>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
> >>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
> >>>>
> >>>> Phil
> >>>>
> >>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
> >>>>> understand.
> >>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache
> Euler?
> >>>>> Apache Euclid?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
> >>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
> >>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My suggestion is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> MathComponents
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Phil
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> http://home.apache.org/~britter/
> http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter
> http://github.com/britter
>
--
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Sent from my mobile device
Envoyé de mon portable
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 07:01:38 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
> On 1/25/16 2:28 AM, luc wrote:
>> Le 2016-01-25 08:52, Benedikt Ritter a écrit :
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I very much like the idea of taking the name of a famous
>>> mathematician.
>>> If it has to be some thing more descriptive: Apache Commons
>>> HttpClient went
>>> to Apache HttpComponents. How about Apache Math Components as TLP
>>> name?
>>>
>>> Benedikt
>>>
>>> 2016-01-25 8:40 GMT+01:00 Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
>>>> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an
>>>> umbrella. Some
>>>> of the other Apache projects that do math may be interested in
>>>> moving that
>>>> piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
>>>>
>>>> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated
>>>> to the
>>>> subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc So:
>>>> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a
>>>> whole with the
>>>> documentation that cuts across modules)
>>>> apache-math-linear-real
>>>> apache-math-linear-field
>>>> apache-math-optimization-genetic
>>>> apache-math-optimization-simplex
>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> And hopefully:
>>>> apache-math-optimization-integer
>>>> apache-math-optimization-mixed
>>>> And more..
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Ole
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles
>>>>> <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>>>>>> Or is it taken already?
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in
>>>>> fact
>>>>> umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do
>>>>> math-relates things. I
>>>>> think adding "components" makes it look more like a library of
>>>>> base
>>>>> components that other math-related projects can use.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going
>>>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the
>>>>>>> opportunity in
>>>>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math];
>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>>>>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>>>>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to
>>>>>>> common math
>>>>>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>>>>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>>>>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release
>>>>>>> artifacts.
>>>>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is
>>>>>>> why I
>>>>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math
>>>>>>> area
>>>>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>>>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton?
>>>>>>>> Apache Euler?
>>>>>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz
>>>>>>>> <ph...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a
>>>>>>>>> boring,
>>>>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy,
>>>>>>>>> so won't
>>>>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> MathComponents
>>
>> I would be happy with either Math Components or Math.
>> Also I do favor fancy acronyms that read exactly as well known
>> names
>
> One that I thought of kind of like that was another current ASF name
> ripoff:
>
> JAML (Java Apache Math Library) imitating JAMES.
Oh no, too close to YAML! ;-)
And, as an ending, "ML" is usually acronym for "markup language".
:-P
>> (23 years ago, the name of my first mathematics library was
>> an acronym that read "Cantor"), it is probably not a good idea for
>> this new TLP.
>>
>> In any case, the project will most probably be de facto an umbrella
>> project as modularizing it seems in the current mood.
>
> Modularization does not mean becoming an umbrella project. It just
> means we distribute multiple jars. In any case, the scope
> limitation that I thought good to somehow imply in the name was that
> what we aim to produce is a base library in Java.
"Base library" is much too blurred.
Currently, what CM actually is a toolbox collection of what the PMC
agreed to put in, not more not less. Some things are pretty basic in
some sense (MathArrays), some are pretty not basic at all (BSP).
It would make it much clearer if we could agree to think deeply about
the requirements and purpose of modularization.
That could help a lot in defining the scope(s).
Gilles
> Phil
>>
>> best regards,
>> Luc
>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty
>>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 1/25/16 2:28 AM, luc wrote:
> Le 2016-01-25 08:52, Benedikt Ritter a écrit :
>> Hi,
>>
>> I very much like the idea of taking the name of a famous
>> mathematician.
>> If it has to be some thing more descriptive: Apache Commons
>> HttpClient went
>> to Apache HttpComponents. How about Apache Math Components as TLP
>> name?
>>
>> Benedikt
>>
>> 2016-01-25 8:40 GMT+01:00 Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
>>> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an
>>> umbrella. Some
>>> of the other Apache projects that do math may be interested in
>>> moving that
>>> piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
>>>
>>> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated
>>> to the
>>> subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc So:
>>> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a
>>> whole with the
>>> documentation that cuts across modules)
>>> apache-math-linear-real
>>> apache-math-linear-field
>>> apache-math-optimization-genetic
>>> apache-math-optimization-simplex
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> And hopefully:
>>> apache-math-optimization-integer
>>> apache-math-optimization-mixed
>>> And more..
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ole
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles
>>>> <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>>>>> Or is it taken already?
>>>>>
>>>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in
>>>> fact
>>>> umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do
>>>> math-relates things. I
>>>> think adding "components" makes it look more like a library of
>>>> base
>>>> components that other math-related projects can use.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going
>>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the
>>>>>> opportunity in
>>>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math];
>>>>>> but I
>>>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>>>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>>>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to
>>>>>> common math
>>>>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>>>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>>>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release
>>>>>> artifacts.
>>>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is
>>>>>> why I
>>>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math
>>>>>> area
>>>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton?
>>>>>>> Apache Euler?
>>>>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz
>>>>>>> <ph...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a
>>>>>>>> boring,
>>>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy,
>>>>>>>> so won't
>>>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MathComponents
>
> I would be happy with either Math Components or Math.
> Also I do favor fancy acronyms that read exactly as well known
> names
One that I thought of kind of like that was another current ASF name
ripoff:
JAML (Java Apache Math Library) imitating JAMES.
> (23 years ago, the name of my first mathematics library was
> an acronym that read "Cantor"), it is probably not a good idea for
> this new TLP.
>
> In any case, the project will most probably be de facto an umbrella
> project as modularizing it seems in the current mood.
Modularization does not mean becoming an umbrella project. It just
means we distribute multiple jars. In any case, the scope
limitation that I thought good to somehow imply in the name was that
what we aim to produce is a base library in Java.
Phil
>
> best regards,
> Luc
>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 1/25/16 6:24 AM, Gilles wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:41:46 +0100, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
>> Le 25/01/2016 13:21, Gilles a écrit :
>>
>>> * AJaMa
>>> ?
>>>
>>> The last one is short while fully descriptive:
>>> AJaMa
>>> is
>>> the Apache JAva MAthematics library
>>
>> This one will probably sound too similar with Jama, another math
>> library:
>>
>> http://math.nist.gov/javanumerics/jama/
>
> I made the proposal knowing about this.
>
> A few years ago, the JAMA project had been declared dead (although
> I do not
> find the announcement page).
> Anyways, it has not been updated since November 2012.
> To be sure we could ask them.
>
> A similar sounding name could be taken as a tribute... ;-)
Wow! I should have read this before I just posted the same idea.
Actually, some of the code in our linear package is adapted from
JAMA. We did contact them years ago when we were incorporating that
code.
Phil
>
>> Will the new TLP focus on Java libraries exclusively or will it
>> be open
>> to implementations in other languages?
>
> This is also a fundamental question.
>
> Given that we could not even agree to evolve with the JDK (last
> release of
> CM had to be Java *5* source-compatible!), it would be a (bad)
> joke (or a
> revolution!) to throw other languages into the discussion.
>
> Gilles
>
>
>> Emmanuel Bourg
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 14:38:42 +0000, Schalk Cronjé wrote:
> By matter of assocation (and some expressive freedom).
>
> Ajama -> Adama -> Battlestar Galactica -> Galactica ->
> Mathelactica.
>
> And thus: Mathelactica the Apache Mathematics library
Sounds more adapted to a milk factory... ;-)
Gilles
> I think that name can fly (pun intented).
>
> Regards
>
> On 25/01/2016 13:24, Gilles wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:41:46 +0100, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
>>> Le 25/01/2016 13:21, Gilles a écrit :
>>>
>>>> * AJaMa
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> The last one is short while fully descriptive:
>>>> AJaMa
>>>> is
>>>> the Apache JAva MAthematics library
>>>
>>> This one will probably sound too similar with Jama, another math
>>> library:
>>>
>>> http://math.nist.gov/javanumerics/jama/
>>
>> I made the proposal knowing about this.
>>
>> A few years ago, the JAMA project had been declared dead (although I
>> do not
>> find the announcement page).
>> Anyways, it has not been updated since November 2012.
>> To be sure we could ask them.
>>
>> A similar sounding name could be taken as a tribute... ;-)
>>
>>> Will the new TLP focus on Java libraries exclusively or will it be
>>> open
>>> to implementations in other languages?
>>
>> This is also a fundamental question.
>>
>> Given that we could not even agree to evolve with the JDK (last
>> release of
>> CM had to be Java *5* source-compatible!), it would be a (bad) joke
>> (or a
>> revolution!) to throw other languages into the discussion.
>>
>> Gilles
>>
>>
>>> Emmanuel Bourg
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Schalk Cronjé <ys...@gmail.com>.
By matter of assocation (and some expressive freedom).
Ajama -> Adama -> Battlestar Galactica -> Galactica -> Mathelactica.
And thus: Mathelactica the Apache Mathematics library
I think that name can fly (pun intented).
Regards
On 25/01/2016 13:24, Gilles wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:41:46 +0100, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
>> Le 25/01/2016 13:21, Gilles a écrit :
>>
>>> * AJaMa
>>> ?
>>>
>>> The last one is short while fully descriptive:
>>> AJaMa
>>> is
>>> the Apache JAva MAthematics library
>>
>> This one will probably sound too similar with Jama, another math
>> library:
>>
>> http://math.nist.gov/javanumerics/jama/
>
> I made the proposal knowing about this.
>
> A few years ago, the JAMA project had been declared dead (although I
> do not
> find the announcement page).
> Anyways, it has not been updated since November 2012.
> To be sure we could ask them.
>
> A similar sounding name could be taken as a tribute... ;-)
>
>> Will the new TLP focus on Java libraries exclusively or will it be open
>> to implementations in other languages?
>
> This is also a fundamental question.
>
> Given that we could not even agree to evolve with the JDK (last
> release of
> CM had to be Java *5* source-compatible!), it would be a (bad) joke (or a
> revolution!) to throw other languages into the discussion.
>
> Gilles
>
>
>> Emmanuel Bourg
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
--
Schalk W. Cronjé
Twitter / Ello / Toeter : @ysb33r
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:41:46 +0100, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
> Le 25/01/2016 13:21, Gilles a écrit :
>
>> * AJaMa
>> ?
>>
>> The last one is short while fully descriptive:
>> AJaMa
>> is
>> the Apache JAva MAthematics library
>
> This one will probably sound too similar with Jama, another math
> library:
>
> http://math.nist.gov/javanumerics/jama/
I made the proposal knowing about this.
A few years ago, the JAMA project had been declared dead (although I do
not
find the announcement page).
Anyways, it has not been updated since November 2012.
To be sure we could ask them.
A similar sounding name could be taken as a tribute... ;-)
> Will the new TLP focus on Java libraries exclusively or will it be
> open
> to implementations in other languages?
This is also a fundamental question.
Given that we could not even agree to evolve with the JDK (last release
of
CM had to be Java *5* source-compatible!), it would be a (bad) joke (or
a
revolution!) to throw other languages into the discussion.
Gilles
> Emmanuel Bourg
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>.
Le 25/01/2016 13:21, Gilles a écrit :
> * AJaMa
> ?
>
> The last one is short while fully descriptive:
> AJaMa
> is
> the Apache JAva MAthematics library
This one will probably sound too similar with Jama, another math library:
http://math.nist.gov/javanumerics/jama/
Will the new TLP focus on Java libraries exclusively or will it be open
to implementations in other languages?
Emmanuel Bourg
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 11:40:48 +0000, sebb wrote:
> On 25 January 2016 at 09:28, luc <lu...@spaceroots.org> wrote:
>> Le 2016-01-25 08:52, Benedikt Ritter a écrit :
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I very much like the idea of taking the name of a famous
>>> mathematician.
>
> In which case it has to be
>
> Euclid or Pythagoras (early)
> or
> Paul Erdős - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erd%C5%91s_number
>
> and everyone has heard of
> John Nash (Beautiful Mind)
I'd rather not have a person's name for the project; as was said
before, it will carry meaning that could be misleading.
> etc.
> In the spirit of recent discussions, how about a RNG to pick the
> mathematician's name for each next incarnation?
>
> ;-)
On the other hand, this is really a good idea for naming releases! :-)
>>> If it has to be some thing more descriptive: Apache Commons
>>> HttpClient
>>> went
>>> to Apache HttpComponents. How about Apache Math Components as TLP
>>> name?
>
> I quite like Apache Epsilon as a non-descriptive but related name.
>
> [ducks behind bikshed]
What about
* MathBlocks
* MathModules
* modMath
* AJaMa
?
The last one is short while fully descriptive:
AJaMa
is
the Apache JAva MAthematics library
Regards,
Gilles
>>>
>>> Benedikt
>>>
>>> 2016-01-25 8:40 GMT+01:00 Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
>>>> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an
>>>> umbrella.
>>>> Some
>>>> of the other Apache projects that do math may be interested in
>>>> moving
>>>> that
>>>> piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
>>>>
>>>> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated
>>>> to the
>>>> subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc So:
>>>> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a whole
>>>> with
>>>> the
>>>> documentation that cuts across modules)
>>>> apache-math-linear-real
>>>> apache-math-linear-field
>>>> apache-math-optimization-genetic
>>>> apache-math-optimization-simplex
>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> And hopefully:
>>>> apache-math-optimization-integer
>>>> apache-math-optimization-mixed
>>>> And more..
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Ole
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles
>>>>> <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>>>>>> Or is it taken already?
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in
>>>>> fact
>>>>> umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do math-relates
>>>>> things.
>>>>> I
>>>>> think adding "components" makes it look more like a library of
>>>>> base
>>>>> components that other math-related projects can use.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going
>>>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>>>>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>>>>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common
>>>>>>> math
>>>>>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>>>>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>>>>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release
>>>>>>> artifacts.
>>>>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math
>>>>>>> area
>>>>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>>>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton?
>>>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>> Euler?
>>>>>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz
>>>>>>>> <ph...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a
>>>>>>>>> boring,
>>>>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so
>>>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> MathComponents
>>
>>
>> I would be happy with either Math Components or Math.
>> Also I do favor fancy acronyms that read exactly as well known
>> names (23 years ago, the name of my first mathematics library was
>> an acronym that read "Cantor"), it is probably not a good idea for
>> this new TLP.
>>
>> In any case, the project will most probably be de facto an umbrella
>> project as modularizing it seems in the current mood.
>>
>> best regards,
>> Luc
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty
>>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>>>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by luc <lu...@spaceroots.org>.
Le 2016-01-25 12:49, James Carman a écrit :
> Epsilon is catchy
I like it too. As we have a tendency to chase down accuracy, it seems
a good fit. The logo would be easy to select ...
It would do well with the existing (despite quite stagnant)
Apache Commons Nabla <http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Nabla.html>.
Luc
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 6:41 AM sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 25 January 2016 at 09:28, luc <lu...@spaceroots.org> wrote:
>> > Le 2016-01-25 08:52, Benedikt Ritter a écrit :
>> >>
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> I very much like the idea of taking the name of a famous mathematician.
>>
>> In which case it has to be
>>
>> Euclid or Pythagoras (early)
>> or
>> Paul Erdős - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erd%C5%91s_number
>>
>> and everyone has heard of
>> John Nash (Beautiful Mind)
>>
>> etc.
>> In the spirit of recent discussions, how about a RNG to pick the
>> mathematician's name for each next incarnation?
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> >> If it has to be some thing more descriptive: Apache Commons HttpClient
>> >> went
>> >> to Apache HttpComponents. How about Apache Math Components as TLP name?
>>
>> I quite like Apache Epsilon as a non-descriptive but related name.
>>
>> [ducks behind bikshed]
>>
>> >>
>> >> Benedikt
>> >>
>> >> 2016-01-25 8:40 GMT+01:00 Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>:
>> >>
>> >>> Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
>> >>> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an umbrella.
>> >>> Some
>> >>> of the other Apache projects that do math may be interested in moving
>> >>> that
>> >>> piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
>> >>>
>> >>> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated to the
>> >>> subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc So:
>> >>> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a whole with
>> >>> the
>> >>> documentation that cuts across modules)
>> >>> apache-math-linear-real
>> >>> apache-math-linear-field
>> >>> apache-math-optimization-genetic
>> >>> apache-math-optimization-simplex
>> >>> etc.
>> >>>
>> >>> And hopefully:
>> >>> apache-math-optimization-integer
>> >>> apache-math-optimization-mixed
>> >>> And more..
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>> Ole
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>> >>>>> Or is it taken already?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in fact
>> >>>> umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do math-relates
>> things.
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> think adding "components" makes it look more like a library of base
>> >>>> components that other math-related projects can use.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Phil
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Gilles
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>> >>>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
>> >>>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
>> >>>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>> >>>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>> >>>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common math
>> >>>>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>> >>>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>> >>>>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
>> >>>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
>> >>>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
>> >>>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
>> >>>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Phil
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>> >>>>>>> understand.
>> >>>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache
>> >>>>>>> Euler?
>> >>>>>>> Apache Euclid?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <phil.steitz@gmail.com
>> >
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>> >>>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so
>> won't
>> >>>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> My suggestion is
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> MathComponents
>> >
>> >
>> > I would be happy with either Math Components or Math.
>> > Also I do favor fancy acronyms that read exactly as well known
>> > names (23 years ago, the name of my first mathematics library was
>> > an acronym that read "Cantor"), it is probably not a good idea for
>> > this new TLP.
>> >
>> > In any case, the project will most probably be de facto an umbrella
>> > project as modularizing it seems in the current mood.
>> >
>> > best regards,
>> > Luc
>> >
>> >
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Phil
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
Epsilon is catchy
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 6:41 AM sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 25 January 2016 at 09:28, luc <lu...@spaceroots.org> wrote:
> > Le 2016-01-25 08:52, Benedikt Ritter a écrit :
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I very much like the idea of taking the name of a famous mathematician.
>
> In which case it has to be
>
> Euclid or Pythagoras (early)
> or
> Paul Erdős - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erd%C5%91s_number
>
> and everyone has heard of
> John Nash (Beautiful Mind)
>
> etc.
> In the spirit of recent discussions, how about a RNG to pick the
> mathematician's name for each next incarnation?
>
> ;-)
>
> >> If it has to be some thing more descriptive: Apache Commons HttpClient
> >> went
> >> to Apache HttpComponents. How about Apache Math Components as TLP name?
>
> I quite like Apache Epsilon as a non-descriptive but related name.
>
> [ducks behind bikshed]
>
> >>
> >> Benedikt
> >>
> >> 2016-01-25 8:40 GMT+01:00 Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>:
> >>
> >>> Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
> >>> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an umbrella.
> >>> Some
> >>> of the other Apache projects that do math may be interested in moving
> >>> that
> >>> piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
> >>>
> >>> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated to the
> >>> subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc So:
> >>> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a whole with
> >>> the
> >>> documentation that cuts across modules)
> >>> apache-math-linear-real
> >>> apache-math-linear-field
> >>> apache-math-optimization-genetic
> >>> apache-math-optimization-simplex
> >>> etc.
> >>>
> >>> And hopefully:
> >>> apache-math-optimization-integer
> >>> apache-math-optimization-mixed
> >>> And more..
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Ole
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
> >>>>> Or is it taken already?
> >>>>>
> >>>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in fact
> >>>> umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do math-relates
> things.
> >>>> I
> >>>> think adding "components" makes it look more like a library of base
> >>>> components that other math-related projects can use.
> >>>>
> >>>> Phil
> >>>>
> >>>>> Gilles
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
> >>>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
> >>>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
> >>>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
> >>>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
> >>>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common math
> >>>>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
> >>>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
> >>>>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
> >>>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
> >>>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
> >>>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
> >>>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Phil
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
> >>>>>>> understand.
> >>>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache
> >>>>>>> Euler?
> >>>>>>> Apache Euclid?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <phil.steitz@gmail.com
> >
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
> >>>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so
> won't
> >>>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> My suggestion is
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> MathComponents
> >
> >
> > I would be happy with either Math Components or Math.
> > Also I do favor fancy acronyms that read exactly as well known
> > names (23 years ago, the name of my first mathematics library was
> > an acronym that read "Cantor"), it is probably not a good idea for
> > this new TLP.
> >
> > In any case, the project will most probably be de facto an umbrella
> > project as modularizing it seems in the current mood.
> >
> > best regards,
> > Luc
> >
> >
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Phil
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >
>
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>
>
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>.
It's very easy to create one, but I think we should focus on small high quality simple to use modules and let third parties provide assemblies. I think most of us will feel better about providing solutions that explicitly declare the modules used. This gives maintainers a more precise target. Keeping an uber jar also gets more and more difficult to maintain with each new module release. For example with superfly-css I change modules all the time and I'm planning on adding a lot of new ones. If I also add a uber module I have to maintain that as well. That's not my main concern though. I think an uber jar / module can easily cause headaches. It's the opposite of allowing JDK 9 or osgi manage dependencies and corresponding contexts. The less indirection the better.
Cheers,
Ole
On 01/25/2016 06:38 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> If you decide to break up math into modules, I encourage you to also
> provide an all-in-one jar.
>
> Gary
> On Jan 25, 2016 4:22 PM, "Ole Ersoy" <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Also if each module is very simple and isolated alphas, betas, etc. matter
>> less (If at all). Most devs releasing to npm rely on semver only.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ole
>>
>> On 01/25/2016 02:27 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
>>
>>> On Jan 25, 2016 10:11 AM, "Emmanuel Bourg" <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Le 25/01/2016 18:52, Gilles a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> AFAICT, the real issue is one of policy: Commons is supposed to be
>>>> stable,
>>>> stable, stable and stable (IIUC).
>>>>> And CM is far from being mature as a programming project, when
>>>>>
>>>> considering
>>>> design and scope, and not only the quality of its results and
>>>> performance
>>>> (which are both good in many cases).
>>>>> So stability (as in using JDK 5 only) is not a good perspective (surely
>>>>>
>>>> not
>>>> developers and probably not for users either IMO).
>>>>> If this does not change, what's the point indeed?
>>>>>
>>>> I hope that a motivation behind the TLP isn't to break the compatibility
>>>> on every release, otherwise this will quickly turn into a nightmare for
>>>> the users. Bouncycastle plays this game and it isn't really fun to follow
>>>>
>>> :(
>>>
>>> WRT compatibility, the only thing that matters is not creating jar hell
>>> for
>>> users. You can break compatibility if you change package and maven
>>> coordinates. It's up to the project to create enough alphas and betas to
>>> get to a stable public API before a release. That's just basic project
>>> management IMO. Anything less will leave a lot users unhappy.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> Emmanuel Bourg
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
If you decide to break up math into modules, I encourage you to also
provide an all-in-one jar.
Gary
On Jan 25, 2016 4:22 PM, "Ole Ersoy" <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Also if each module is very simple and isolated alphas, betas, etc. matter
> less (If at all). Most devs releasing to npm rely on semver only.
>
> Cheers,
> Ole
>
> On 01/25/2016 02:27 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
>
>> On Jan 25, 2016 10:11 AM, "Emmanuel Bourg" <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Le 25/01/2016 18:52, Gilles a écrit :
>>>
>>> AFAICT, the real issue is one of policy: Commons is supposed to be
>>>>
>>> stable,
>>
>>> stable, stable and stable (IIUC).
>>>>
>>>> And CM is far from being mature as a programming project, when
>>>>
>>> considering
>>
>>> design and scope, and not only the quality of its results and
>>>>
>>> performance
>>
>>> (which are both good in many cases).
>>>> So stability (as in using JDK 5 only) is not a good perspective (surely
>>>>
>>> not
>>
>>> developers and probably not for users either IMO).
>>>>
>>>> If this does not change, what's the point indeed?
>>>>
>>> I hope that a motivation behind the TLP isn't to break the compatibility
>>> on every release, otherwise this will quickly turn into a nightmare for
>>> the users. Bouncycastle plays this game and it isn't really fun to follow
>>>
>> :(
>>
>> WRT compatibility, the only thing that matters is not creating jar hell
>> for
>> users. You can break compatibility if you change package and maven
>> coordinates. It's up to the project to create enough alphas and betas to
>> get to a stable public API before a release. That's just basic project
>> management IMO. Anything less will leave a lot users unhappy.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> Emmanuel Bourg
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>.
Also if each module is very simple and isolated alphas, betas, etc. matter less (If at all). Most devs releasing to npm rely on semver only.
Cheers,
Ole
On 01/25/2016 02:27 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> On Jan 25, 2016 10:11 AM, "Emmanuel Bourg" <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Le 25/01/2016 18:52, Gilles a écrit :
>>
>>> AFAICT, the real issue is one of policy: Commons is supposed to be
> stable,
>>> stable, stable and stable (IIUC).
>>>
>>> And CM is far from being mature as a programming project, when
> considering
>>> design and scope, and not only the quality of its results and
> performance
>>> (which are both good in many cases).
>>> So stability (as in using JDK 5 only) is not a good perspective (surely
> not
>>> developers and probably not for users either IMO).
>>>
>>> If this does not change, what's the point indeed?
>> I hope that a motivation behind the TLP isn't to break the compatibility
>> on every release, otherwise this will quickly turn into a nightmare for
>> the users. Bouncycastle plays this game and it isn't really fun to follow
> :(
>
> WRT compatibility, the only thing that matters is not creating jar hell for
> users. You can break compatibility if you change package and maven
> coordinates. It's up to the project to create enough alphas and betas to
> get to a stable public API before a release. That's just basic project
> management IMO. Anything less will leave a lot users unhappy.
>
> Gary
>
>> Emmanuel Bourg
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
On Jan 25, 2016 12:59 PM, "Thomas Neidhart" <th...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> On 01/25/2016 09:27 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> > On Jan 25, 2016 10:11 AM, "Emmanuel Bourg" <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Le 25/01/2016 18:52, Gilles a écrit :
> >>
> >>> AFAICT, the real issue is one of policy: Commons is supposed to be
> > stable,
> >>> stable, stable and stable (IIUC).
> >>>
> >>> And CM is far from being mature as a programming project, when
> > considering
> >>> design and scope, and not only the quality of its results and
> > performance
> >>> (which are both good in many cases).
> >>> So stability (as in using JDK 5 only) is not a good perspective
(surely
> > not
> >>> developers and probably not for users either IMO).
> >>>
> >>> If this does not change, what's the point indeed?
> >>
> >> I hope that a motivation behind the TLP isn't to break the
compatibility
> >> on every release, otherwise this will quickly turn into a nightmare for
> >> the users. Bouncycastle plays this game and it isn't really fun to
follow
> > :(
> >
> > WRT compatibility, the only thing that matters is not creating jar hell
for
> > users. You can break compatibility if you change package and maven
> > coordinates. It's up to the project to create enough alphas and betas to
> > get to a stable public API before a release. That's just basic project
> > management IMO. Anything less will leave a lot users unhappy.
>
> What you describe is the mantra of Commons and while I perfectly agree
> with it for certain wide-spread libraries like lang, collections or
> logging, the same can not be applied to any other type of library in
> existence.
Must discuss over beers and laughs, just so I do not come across as I'm not
sure what!
The POV about is just not realistic, no matter the library. I know from
personal experience with Apache CXF 2 vs. 3, where CXF did not repackage,
and oh the pain.
What is painful is when you operate in a large stack, say depending on CXF,
Jetty, ActiveMQ, Commons, Teiid and a bunch more. In stacks like these you
do not control all transitive deps, and may the good lord help you if
different parts of the stack depend on diffetent versions of the same
conponents that are not binary compatible. Adding OSGi and/or your own
class losder hacks is not how I want to spend my time.
If everybody plays by the same BC rules, all is well.
Gary
>
> A library like CM is much less used and the danger of creating a jar
> hell because of it does not justify such a strict policy. In fact the
> Commons policy is one of the reasons why the vote to move to a TLP was
> started originally.
>
> There are also other, very respected and mature libraries (like
> joda-time) that allow non-compatible changes in major version without
> changing package / artefact ids, and the world did not collapse because
> of it.
>
> The key point is to be reasonable about the audience of a library, and
> CM does not play in the same league as lang or collections for example.
> Also a better modularization of the project might help in this respect,
> as certain modules might have different maturity levels and users can
> expect them to not change much over time, whereas others are more likely
> to change but their use is mainly in very specific applications (think
> about the optimization package in CM).
>
> We certainly need to think about and express the way we want to organize
> CM as a TLP, which really needs to be different to the status quo. I
> really hope that the people willing to contribute to CM as a TLP take
> this into account, as otherwise there is no point in doing it as Gilles
> pointed out correctly.
>
> Thomas
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Thomas Neidhart <th...@gmail.com>.
On 01/25/2016 09:27 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> On Jan 25, 2016 10:11 AM, "Emmanuel Bourg" <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Le 25/01/2016 18:52, Gilles a écrit :
>>
>>> AFAICT, the real issue is one of policy: Commons is supposed to be
> stable,
>>> stable, stable and stable (IIUC).
>>>
>>> And CM is far from being mature as a programming project, when
> considering
>>> design and scope, and not only the quality of its results and
> performance
>>> (which are both good in many cases).
>>> So stability (as in using JDK 5 only) is not a good perspective (surely
> not
>>> developers and probably not for users either IMO).
>>>
>>> If this does not change, what's the point indeed?
>>
>> I hope that a motivation behind the TLP isn't to break the compatibility
>> on every release, otherwise this will quickly turn into a nightmare for
>> the users. Bouncycastle plays this game and it isn't really fun to follow
> :(
>
> WRT compatibility, the only thing that matters is not creating jar hell for
> users. You can break compatibility if you change package and maven
> coordinates. It's up to the project to create enough alphas and betas to
> get to a stable public API before a release. That's just basic project
> management IMO. Anything less will leave a lot users unhappy.
What you describe is the mantra of Commons and while I perfectly agree
with it for certain wide-spread libraries like lang, collections or
logging, the same can not be applied to any other type of library in
existence.
A library like CM is much less used and the danger of creating a jar
hell because of it does not justify such a strict policy. In fact the
Commons policy is one of the reasons why the vote to move to a TLP was
started originally.
There are also other, very respected and mature libraries (like
joda-time) that allow non-compatible changes in major version without
changing package / artefact ids, and the world did not collapse because
of it.
The key point is to be reasonable about the audience of a library, and
CM does not play in the same league as lang or collections for example.
Also a better modularization of the project might help in this respect,
as certain modules might have different maturity levels and users can
expect them to not change much over time, whereas others are more likely
to change but their use is mainly in very specific applications (think
about the optimization package in CM).
We certainly need to think about and express the way we want to organize
CM as a TLP, which really needs to be different to the status quo. I
really hope that the people willing to contribute to CM as a TLP take
this into account, as otherwise there is no point in doing it as Gilles
pointed out correctly.
Thomas
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
On Jan 25, 2016 10:11 AM, "Emmanuel Bourg" <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Le 25/01/2016 18:52, Gilles a écrit :
>
> > AFAICT, the real issue is one of policy: Commons is supposed to be
stable,
> > stable, stable and stable (IIUC).
> >
> > And CM is far from being mature as a programming project, when
considering
> > design and scope, and not only the quality of its results and
performance
> > (which are both good in many cases).
> > So stability (as in using JDK 5 only) is not a good perspective (surely
not
> > developers and probably not for users either IMO).
> >
> > If this does not change, what's the point indeed?
>
> I hope that a motivation behind the TLP isn't to break the compatibility
> on every release, otherwise this will quickly turn into a nightmare for
> the users. Bouncycastle plays this game and it isn't really fun to follow
:(
WRT compatibility, the only thing that matters is not creating jar hell for
users. You can break compatibility if you change package and maven
coordinates. It's up to the project to create enough alphas and betas to
get to a stable public API before a release. That's just basic project
management IMO. Anything less will leave a lot users unhappy.
Gary
>
> Emmanuel Bourg
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>.
Le 25/01/2016 18:52, Gilles a écrit :
> AFAICT, the real issue is one of policy: Commons is supposed to be stable,
> stable, stable and stable (IIUC).
>
> And CM is far from being mature as a programming project, when considering
> design and scope, and not only the quality of its results and performance
> (which are both good in many cases).
> So stability (as in using JDK 5 only) is not a good perspective (surely not
> developers and probably not for users either IMO).
>
> If this does not change, what's the point indeed?
I hope that a motivation behind the TLP isn't to break the compatibility
on every release, otherwise this will quickly turn into a nightmare for
the users. Bouncycastle plays this game and it isn't really fun to follow :(
Emmanuel Bourg
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 09:17:43 -0800, Gary Gregory wrote:
> Note that we can change the name Apache Commons Math to Apache
> Commons
> Cutesy name as well as turn it into a multi-module project. You do
> not need
> a TLP to do that.
AFAICT, the real issue is one of policy: Commons is supposed to be
stable,
stable, stable and stable (IIUC).
And CM is far from being mature as a programming project, when
considering
design and scope, and not only the quality of its results and
performance
(which are both good in many cases).
So stability (as in using JDK 5 only) is not a good perspective (surely
not
developers and probably not for users either IMO).
If this does not change, what's the point indeed?
> I see lots of email about name change but not many about why this
> component
> would better serve its community under a TLP and/or different PMC
> and/or
> policies.
My take on that has been shared on several occasions.
You are right quite right that the people who previously opposed the
creation of a different TLP did not say much, if anything, about what
has changed since then.
And, more importantly, what will change, as you point out here and as
I did in the other thread ("Volunteer for the new TLP PMC").
Gilles
> Where's the beef?! ;-)
>
> Gary
> On Jan 25, 2016 9:00 AM, "Ole Ersoy" <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I like any name that is simple (It's also good if it has a nice ring
>> to
>> it). If we are hoping to incorporate more modules from other
>> projects then
>> perhaps 'apache-davinci'? I like 'apache-epsilon' as well.
>>
>> On 01/25/2016 05:40 AM, sebb wrote:
>>
>>> On 25 January 2016 at 09:28, luc <lu...@spaceroots.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Le 2016-01-25 08:52, Benedikt Ritter a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I very much like the idea of taking the name of a famous
>>>>> mathematician.
>>>>>
>>>> In which case it has to be
>>>
>>> Euclid or Pythagoras (early)
>>> or
>>> Paul Erdős - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erd%C5%91s_number
>>>
>>> and everyone has heard of
>>> John Nash (Beautiful Mind)
>>>
>>> etc.
>>> In the spirit of recent discussions, how about a RNG to pick the
>>> mathematician's name for each next incarnation?
>>>
>>> ;-)
>>>
>>> If it has to be some thing more descriptive: Apache Commons
>>> HttpClient
>>>>> went
>>>>> to Apache HttpComponents. How about Apache Math Components as TLP
>>>>> name?
>>>>>
>>>> I quite like Apache Epsilon as a non-descriptive but related name.
>>>
>>> [ducks behind bikshed]
>>>
>>> Benedikt
>>>>>
>>>>> 2016-01-25 8:40 GMT+01:00 Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>> Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
>>>>>> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an
>>>>>> umbrella.
>>>>>> Some
>>>>>> of the other Apache projects that do math may be interested in
>>>>>> moving
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>> subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc So:
>>>>>> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a
>>>>>> whole with
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> documentation that cuts across modules)
>>>>>> apache-math-linear-real
>>>>>> apache-math-linear-field
>>>>>> apache-math-optimization-genetic
>>>>>> apache-math-optimization-simplex
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And hopefully:
>>>>>> apache-math-optimization-integer
>>>>>> apache-math-optimization-mixed
>>>>>> And more..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Ole
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles
>>>>>> <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>>>>>>>> Or is it taken already?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in
>>>>>>>> fact
>>>>>>> umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do
>>>>>>> math-relates
>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> think adding "components" makes it look more like a library of
>>>>>>> base
>>>>>>> components that other math-related projects can use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going
>>>>>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the
>>>>>>>>>> opportunity in
>>>>>>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math];
>>>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide
>>>>>>>>> IP-clean,
>>>>>>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to
>>>>>>>>> common math
>>>>>>>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>>>>>>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release
>>>>>>>>> artifacts.
>>>>>>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is
>>>>>>>>> why I
>>>>>>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math
>>>>>>>>> area
>>>>>>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>>>>>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton?
>>>>>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>>> Euler?
>>>>>>>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz
>>>>>>>>>> <phil.steitz@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a
>>>>>>>>>>> boring,
>>>>>>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy,
>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> MathComponents
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> I would be happy with either Math Components or Math.
>>>> Also I do favor fancy acronyms that read exactly as well known
>>>> names (23 years ago, the name of my first mathematics library was
>>>> an acronym that read "Cantor"), it is probably not a good idea for
>>>> this new TLP.
>>>>
>>>> In any case, the project will most probably be de facto an
>>>> umbrella
>>>> project as modularizing it seems in the current mood.
>>>>
>>>> best regards,
>>>> Luc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
Note that we can change the name Apache Commons Math to Apache Commons
Cutesy name as well as turn it into a multi-module project. You do not need
a TLP to do that.
I see lots of email about name change but not many about why this component
would better serve its community under a TLP and/or different PMC and/or
policies.
Where's the beef?! ;-)
Gary
On Jan 25, 2016 9:00 AM, "Ole Ersoy" <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like any name that is simple (It's also good if it has a nice ring to
> it). If we are hoping to incorporate more modules from other projects then
> perhaps 'apache-davinci'? I like 'apache-epsilon' as well.
>
> On 01/25/2016 05:40 AM, sebb wrote:
>
>> On 25 January 2016 at 09:28, luc <lu...@spaceroots.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Le 2016-01-25 08:52, Benedikt Ritter a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I very much like the idea of taking the name of a famous mathematician.
>>>>
>>> In which case it has to be
>>
>> Euclid or Pythagoras (early)
>> or
>> Paul Erdős - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erd%C5%91s_number
>>
>> and everyone has heard of
>> John Nash (Beautiful Mind)
>>
>> etc.
>> In the spirit of recent discussions, how about a RNG to pick the
>> mathematician's name for each next incarnation?
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> If it has to be some thing more descriptive: Apache Commons HttpClient
>>>> went
>>>> to Apache HttpComponents. How about Apache Math Components as TLP name?
>>>>
>>> I quite like Apache Epsilon as a non-descriptive but related name.
>>
>> [ducks behind bikshed]
>>
>> Benedikt
>>>>
>>>> 2016-01-25 8:40 GMT+01:00 Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>> Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
>>>>> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an umbrella.
>>>>> Some
>>>>> of the other Apache projects that do math may be interested in moving
>>>>> that
>>>>> piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated to the
>>>>> subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc So:
>>>>> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a whole with
>>>>> the
>>>>> documentation that cuts across modules)
>>>>> apache-math-linear-real
>>>>> apache-math-linear-field
>>>>> apache-math-optimization-genetic
>>>>> apache-math-optimization-simplex
>>>>> etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> And hopefully:
>>>>> apache-math-optimization-integer
>>>>> apache-math-optimization-mixed
>>>>> And more..
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Ole
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>>>>>>> Or is it taken already?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in fact
>>>>>> umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do math-relates
>>>>>> things.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> think adding "components" makes it look more like a library of base
>>>>>> components that other math-related projects can use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
>>>>>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
>>>>>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>>>>>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>>>>>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common math
>>>>>>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>>>>>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>>>>>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
>>>>>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
>>>>>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
>>>>>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
>>>>>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>>>>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache
>>>>>>>>> Euler?
>>>>>>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <phil.steitz@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>>>>>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so
>>>>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> MathComponents
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>> I would be happy with either Math Components or Math.
>>> Also I do favor fancy acronyms that read exactly as well known
>>> names (23 years ago, the name of my first mathematics library was
>>> an acronym that read "Cantor"), it is probably not a good idea for
>>> this new TLP.
>>>
>>> In any case, the project will most probably be de facto an umbrella
>>> project as modularizing it seems in the current mood.
>>>
>>> best regards,
>>> Luc
>>>
>>>
>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
>
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>.
I like any name that is simple (It's also good if it has a nice ring to it). If we are hoping to incorporate more modules from other projects then perhaps 'apache-davinci'? I like 'apache-epsilon' as well.
On 01/25/2016 05:40 AM, sebb wrote:
> On 25 January 2016 at 09:28, luc <lu...@spaceroots.org> wrote:
>> Le 2016-01-25 08:52, Benedikt Ritter a écrit :
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I very much like the idea of taking the name of a famous mathematician.
> In which case it has to be
>
> Euclid or Pythagoras (early)
> or
> Paul Erdős - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erd%C5%91s_number
>
> and everyone has heard of
> John Nash (Beautiful Mind)
>
> etc.
> In the spirit of recent discussions, how about a RNG to pick the
> mathematician's name for each next incarnation?
>
> ;-)
>
>>> If it has to be some thing more descriptive: Apache Commons HttpClient
>>> went
>>> to Apache HttpComponents. How about Apache Math Components as TLP name?
> I quite like Apache Epsilon as a non-descriptive but related name.
>
> [ducks behind bikshed]
>
>>> Benedikt
>>>
>>> 2016-01-25 8:40 GMT+01:00 Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
>>>> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an umbrella.
>>>> Some
>>>> of the other Apache projects that do math may be interested in moving
>>>> that
>>>> piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
>>>>
>>>> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated to the
>>>> subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc So:
>>>> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a whole with
>>>> the
>>>> documentation that cuts across modules)
>>>> apache-math-linear-real
>>>> apache-math-linear-field
>>>> apache-math-optimization-genetic
>>>> apache-math-optimization-simplex
>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> And hopefully:
>>>> apache-math-optimization-integer
>>>> apache-math-optimization-mixed
>>>> And more..
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Ole
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>>>>>> Or is it taken already?
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in fact
>>>>> umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do math-relates things.
>>>>> I
>>>>> think adding "components" makes it look more like a library of base
>>>>> components that other math-related projects can use.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
>>>>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
>>>>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>>>>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>>>>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common math
>>>>>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>>>>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>>>>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
>>>>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
>>>>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
>>>>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
>>>>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>>>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache
>>>>>>>> Euler?
>>>>>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>>>>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
>>>>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> MathComponents
>>
>> I would be happy with either Math Components or Math.
>> Also I do favor fancy acronyms that read exactly as well known
>> names (23 years ago, the name of my first mathematics library was
>> an acronym that read "Cantor"), it is probably not a good idea for
>> this new TLP.
>>
>> In any case, the project will most probably be de facto an umbrella
>> project as modularizing it seems in the current mood.
>>
>> best regards,
>> Luc
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 25 January 2016 at 09:28, luc <lu...@spaceroots.org> wrote:
> Le 2016-01-25 08:52, Benedikt Ritter a écrit :
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I very much like the idea of taking the name of a famous mathematician.
In which case it has to be
Euclid or Pythagoras (early)
or
Paul Erdős - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erd%C5%91s_number
and everyone has heard of
John Nash (Beautiful Mind)
etc.
In the spirit of recent discussions, how about a RNG to pick the
mathematician's name for each next incarnation?
;-)
>> If it has to be some thing more descriptive: Apache Commons HttpClient
>> went
>> to Apache HttpComponents. How about Apache Math Components as TLP name?
I quite like Apache Epsilon as a non-descriptive but related name.
[ducks behind bikshed]
>>
>> Benedikt
>>
>> 2016-01-25 8:40 GMT+01:00 Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
>>> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an umbrella.
>>> Some
>>> of the other Apache projects that do math may be interested in moving
>>> that
>>> piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
>>>
>>> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated to the
>>> subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc So:
>>> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a whole with
>>> the
>>> documentation that cuts across modules)
>>> apache-math-linear-real
>>> apache-math-linear-field
>>> apache-math-optimization-genetic
>>> apache-math-optimization-simplex
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> And hopefully:
>>> apache-math-optimization-integer
>>> apache-math-optimization-mixed
>>> And more..
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ole
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>>>>> Or is it taken already?
>>>>>
>>>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in fact
>>>> umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do math-relates things.
>>>> I
>>>> think adding "components" makes it look more like a library of base
>>>> components that other math-related projects can use.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
>>>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
>>>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>>>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>>>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common math
>>>>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>>>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>>>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
>>>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
>>>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
>>>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
>>>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache
>>>>>>> Euler?
>>>>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>>>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
>>>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MathComponents
>
>
> I would be happy with either Math Components or Math.
> Also I do favor fancy acronyms that read exactly as well known
> names (23 years ago, the name of my first mathematics library was
> an acronym that read "Cantor"), it is probably not a good idea for
> this new TLP.
>
> In any case, the project will most probably be de facto an umbrella
> project as modularizing it seems in the current mood.
>
> best regards,
> Luc
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by luc <lu...@spaceroots.org>.
Le 2016-01-25 08:52, Benedikt Ritter a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> I very much like the idea of taking the name of a famous mathematician.
> If it has to be some thing more descriptive: Apache Commons HttpClient
> went
> to Apache HttpComponents. How about Apache Math Components as TLP name?
>
> Benedikt
>
> 2016-01-25 8:40 GMT+01:00 Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
>> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an umbrella.
>> Some
>> of the other Apache projects that do math may be interested in moving
>> that
>> piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
>>
>> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated to
>> the
>> subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc So:
>> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a whole with
>> the
>> documentation that cuts across modules)
>> apache-math-linear-real
>> apache-math-linear-field
>> apache-math-optimization-genetic
>> apache-math-optimization-simplex
>> etc.
>>
>> And hopefully:
>> apache-math-optimization-integer
>> apache-math-optimization-mixed
>> And more..
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ole
>>
>>
>> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>>>> Or is it taken already?
>>>>
>>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in fact
>>> umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do math-relates
>>> things. I
>>> think adding "components" makes it look more like a library of base
>>> components that other math-related projects can use.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>> Gilles
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to
>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>
>>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
>>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
>>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common
>>>>> math
>>>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
>>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
>>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
>>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
>>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>
>>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache
>>>>>> Euler?
>>>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz
>>>>>> <ph...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so
>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MathComponents
I would be happy with either Math Components or Math.
Also I do favor fancy acronyms that read exactly as well known
names (23 years ago, the name of my first mathematics library was
an acronym that read "Cantor"), it is probably not a good idea for
this new TLP.
In any case, the project will most probably be de facto an umbrella
project as modularizing it seems in the current mood.
best regards,
Luc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org>.
Hi,
I very much like the idea of taking the name of a famous mathematician.
If it has to be some thing more descriptive: Apache Commons HttpClient went
to Apache HttpComponents. How about Apache Math Components as TLP name?
Benedikt
2016-01-25 8:40 GMT+01:00 Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>:
> Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an umbrella. Some
> of the other Apache projects that do math may be interested in moving that
> piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
>
> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated to the
> subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc So:
> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a whole with the
> documentation that cuts across modules)
> apache-math-linear-real
> apache-math-linear-field
> apache-math-optimization-genetic
> apache-math-optimization-simplex
> etc.
>
> And hopefully:
> apache-math-optimization-integer
> apache-math-optimization-mixed
> And more..
>
> Cheers,
> Ole
>
>
> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>>> Or is it taken already?
>>>
>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in fact
>> umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do math-relates things. I
>> think adding "components" makes it look more like a library of base
>> components that other math-related projects can use.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>> Gilles
>>>
>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
>>>>>
>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common math
>>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>>>>> understand.
>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache Euler?
>>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MathComponents
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
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--
http://home.apache.org/~britter/
http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter
http://github.com/britter
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>.
The general pattern that I'm seeing within the NodeJS community is that big projects are being broken up into smaller projects and those smaller projects are being broken up yet again, etc. What I find refreshing about that is that it's pretty simple to find a component / module that I need for which I can read the example and get up to speed in 5 minutes and if needed read the source code in less than an hour.
In contrast I'm spending a fairly significant amount of time attempting to break up CM into smaller, simpler, more easily digestible pieces. Once something becomes a big library it's very hard to manage it elegantly. Small projects are easy to manage. For example I'm combining Twitter Bootstrap and SUIT-CSS into a framework called superfly-css. If you search for it on npmjs all the modules pop up (A combination of tools and css components):
https://www.npmjs.com/search?q=superfly-css
Each module links back to the parent module for usage documentation, install, design guidelines, etc. The superfly-css organization landing page is going to outline all the tool and component modules. Each module can have a gh-pages branch containing the site for the module if necessary.
I have a very easy time managing this and anyone who uses it gets precisely what they need. It's like ordering Sushi :) and the process for using the modules is almost that simple.
This is the best argument I have seen for taking a modular approach:
https://github.com/substack/browserify-handbook#module-philosophy
As an example directly related to CM have a look at the now fairly complete firefly-math-exceptions module:
https://github.com/firefly-math/firefly-math-exceptions
Anyone on this list can probably read the source in about 10 minutes. It's very easy to integrate / extend this into any (CM or non CM) math project. So if we create an organization structure targeting small simple modules I think we will have a lot more fun with this.
Cheers,
Ole
On 01/25/2016 07:47 AM, Phil Steitz wrote:
> On 1/25/16 12:40 AM, Ole Ersoy wrote:
>> Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
>> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an
>> umbrella. Some of the other Apache projects that do math may be
>> interested in moving that piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
> The ASF does not look favorably on "umbrella" projects. This is
> because in these projects, the individual volunteers making up the
> PMC inevitably lose sight of the full project. The governance model
> that we have at Apache has no layers in it beneath the PMC. That
> means PMCs need to be focused. "All things X" PMCs don't work. The
> canonical example of that was Jakarta, which started as "all things
> Java" and was eventually split up. We should definitely not try to
> be "all things math" at the ASF. A better focus would be a nice set
> math components in Java that other math-related projects inside and
> outside the ASF can use. Kind of like, um, Commons Math as its own
> TLP :)
>
> Phil
>> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated
>> to the subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc So:
>> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a whole
>> with the documentation that cuts across modules)
>> apache-math-linear-real
>> apache-math-linear-field
>> apache-math-optimization-genetic
>> apache-math-optimization-simplex
>> etc.
>>
>> And hopefully:
>> apache-math-optimization-integer
>> apache-math-optimization-mixed
>> And more..
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ole
>>
>> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles
>>>> <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>>>> Or is it taken already?
>>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in
>>> fact umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do
>>> math-relates things. I think adding "components" makes it look
>>> more like a library of base components that other math-related
>>> projects can use.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>> Gilles
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going
>>>>>> to do.
>>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
>>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
>>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common
>>>>> math
>>>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
>>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
>>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
>>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
>>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton?
>>>>>> Apache Euler?
>>>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz
>>>>>>> <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so
>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MathComponents
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Phil
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 07:15:20 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
> On 1/25/16 7:01 AM, Gilles wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 06:47:40 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>> On 1/25/16 12:40 AM, Ole Ersoy wrote:
>>>> Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
>>>> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an
>>>> umbrella. Some of the other Apache projects that do math may be
>>>> interested in moving that piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
>>>
>>> The ASF does not look favorably on "umbrella" projects. This is
>>> because in these projects, the individual volunteers making up the
>>> PMC inevitably lose sight of the full project. The governance
>>> model
>>> that we have at Apache has no layers in it beneath the PMC. That
>>> means PMCs need to be focused. "All things X" PMCs don't work.
>>> The
>>> canonical example of that was Jakarta, which started as "all things
>>> Java" and was eventually split up. We should definitely not try to
>>> be "all things math" at the ASF. A better focus would be a nice
>>> set
>>> math components in Java that other math-related projects inside and
>>> outside the ASF can use. Kind of like, um, Commons Math as its own
>>> TLP :)
>>
>> The problem is that Commons Math is "all things math-related that
>> the
>> PMC agreed to put in". It is an umbrella in the sense you
>> describe here
>> (even if obviously cannot preclude other project to implement math
>> routines).
>>
>> We have seen that a CM-like project has advantages and drawbacks,
>> for
>> developers and users.
>>
>> It makes sense to dig further into Ole's proposal towards
>> modularization
>> because, if it is as you say above, then different modules may
>> have to
>> become different projects!
>>
>> If they don't have to, then I don't understand your argument.
>>
>> Or it is a fight on the use of the word "umbrella"?
>
> The ASF principle is simple: the PMC has to provide active
> oversight of the project. That means that you can't have a single
> project effectively split into several smaller ones with individual
> PMC members providing oversight to parts, but not the whole. When
> that starts to happen, you need to break the project apart. Just
> distributing separate jars does not force that to happen.
It is a sound principle.
But is it always applicable in practice?
I mean, for CM precisely, it is not true that everyone oversees
to whole code base. The following situations happened:
* single individuals coded (or refactored) almost everything in a
package and nobody else participated in the design, or reviewed
the resulting code
* some packages are too venerable to be touched by newbies
* code contained crippling bugs, that have gone unnoticed for a long
time
* some people want to refactor part or the whole of a package but
others block it on non-technical ground
Hence, without bypassing the good principle, it could be made clear
that some people are more interested or knowledgeable in some area
of the library, and thus the primary (informal) responsible for its
design, not precluding the binding advice of other PMC members.
There should be consensus... (?) on the principle of how to adapt the
principle to reality.
Then modules with better defined scopes could be developed according
to possibly different policies (see "PMC volunteering" thread).
Gilles
>
> Phil
>>
>> Gilles
>>
>>
>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated
>>>> to the subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc
>>>> So:
>>>> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a whole
>>>> with the documentation that cuts across modules)
>>>> apache-math-linear-real
>>>> apache-math-linear-field
>>>> apache-math-optimization-genetic
>>>> apache-math-optimization-simplex
>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> And hopefully:
>>>> apache-math-optimization-integer
>>>> apache-math-optimization-mixed
>>>> And more..
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Ole
>>>>
>>>> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles
>>>>>> <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>>>>>> Or is it taken already?
>>>>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in
>>>>> fact umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do
>>>>> math-relates things. I think adding "components" makes it look
>>>>> more like a library of base components that other math-related
>>>>> projects can use.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going
>>>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the
>>>>>>> opportunity in
>>>>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math];
>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>>>>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>>>>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common
>>>>>>> math
>>>>>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>>>>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>>>>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release
>>>>>>> artifacts.
>>>>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is
>>>>>>> why I
>>>>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math
>>>>>>> area
>>>>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>>>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton?
>>>>>>>> Apache Euler?
>>>>>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz
>>>>>>>>> <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a
>>>>>>>>> boring,
>>>>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so
>>>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> MathComponents
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty
>>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Phil
>>
>>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 1/25/16 7:01 AM, Gilles wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 06:47:40 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>> On 1/25/16 12:40 AM, Ole Ersoy wrote:
>>> Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
>>> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an
>>> umbrella. Some of the other Apache projects that do math may be
>>> interested in moving that piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
>>
>> The ASF does not look favorably on "umbrella" projects. This is
>> because in these projects, the individual volunteers making up the
>> PMC inevitably lose sight of the full project. The governance model
>> that we have at Apache has no layers in it beneath the PMC. That
>> means PMCs need to be focused. "All things X" PMCs don't work. The
>> canonical example of that was Jakarta, which started as "all things
>> Java" and was eventually split up. We should definitely not try to
>> be "all things math" at the ASF. A better focus would be a nice set
>> math components in Java that other math-related projects inside and
>> outside the ASF can use. Kind of like, um, Commons Math as its own
>> TLP :)
>
> The problem is that Commons Math is "all things math-related that the
> PMC agreed to put in". It is an umbrella in the sense you
> describe here
> (even if obviously cannot preclude other project to implement math
> routines).
>
> We have seen that a CM-like project has advantages and drawbacks, for
> developers and users.
>
> It makes sense to dig further into Ole's proposal towards
> modularization
> because, if it is as you say above, then different modules may
> have to
> become different projects!
>
> If they don't have to, then I don't understand your argument.
>
> Or it is a fight on the use of the word "umbrella"?
The ASF principle is simple: the PMC has to provide active
oversight of the project. That means that you can't have a single
project effectively split into several smaller ones with individual
PMC members providing oversight to parts, but not the whole. When
that starts to happen, you need to break the project apart. Just
distributing separate jars does not force that to happen.
Phil
>
> Gilles
>
>
>> Phil
>>>
>>> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated
>>> to the subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc
>>> So:
>>> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a whole
>>> with the documentation that cuts across modules)
>>> apache-math-linear-real
>>> apache-math-linear-field
>>> apache-math-optimization-genetic
>>> apache-math-optimization-simplex
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> And hopefully:
>>> apache-math-optimization-integer
>>> apache-math-optimization-mixed
>>> And more..
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ole
>>>
>>> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles
>>>>> <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>>>>> Or is it taken already?
>>>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in
>>>> fact umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do
>>>> math-relates things. I think adding "components" makes it look
>>>> more like a library of base components that other math-related
>>>> projects can use.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going
>>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the
>>>>>> opportunity in
>>>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math];
>>>>>> but I
>>>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>>>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>>>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common
>>>>>> math
>>>>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>>>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>>>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release
>>>>>> artifacts.
>>>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is
>>>>>> why I
>>>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math
>>>>>> area
>>>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton?
>>>>>>> Apache Euler?
>>>>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz
>>>>>>>> <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a
>>>>>>>> boring,
>>>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so
>>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MathComponents
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Phil
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 06:47:40 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
> On 1/25/16 12:40 AM, Ole Ersoy wrote:
>> Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
>> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an
>> umbrella. Some of the other Apache projects that do math may be
>> interested in moving that piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
>
> The ASF does not look favorably on "umbrella" projects. This is
> because in these projects, the individual volunteers making up the
> PMC inevitably lose sight of the full project. The governance model
> that we have at Apache has no layers in it beneath the PMC. That
> means PMCs need to be focused. "All things X" PMCs don't work. The
> canonical example of that was Jakarta, which started as "all things
> Java" and was eventually split up. We should definitely not try to
> be "all things math" at the ASF. A better focus would be a nice set
> math components in Java that other math-related projects inside and
> outside the ASF can use. Kind of like, um, Commons Math as its own
> TLP :)
The problem is that Commons Math is "all things math-related that the
PMC agreed to put in". It is an umbrella in the sense you describe
here
(even if obviously cannot preclude other project to implement math
routines).
We have seen that a CM-like project has advantages and drawbacks, for
developers and users.
It makes sense to dig further into Ole's proposal towards
modularization
because, if it is as you say above, then different modules may have to
become different projects!
If they don't have to, then I don't understand your argument.
Or it is a fight on the use of the word "umbrella"?
Gilles
> Phil
>>
>> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated
>> to the subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc So:
>> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a whole
>> with the documentation that cuts across modules)
>> apache-math-linear-real
>> apache-math-linear-field
>> apache-math-optimization-genetic
>> apache-math-optimization-simplex
>> etc.
>>
>> And hopefully:
>> apache-math-optimization-integer
>> apache-math-optimization-mixed
>> And more..
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ole
>>
>> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles
>>>> <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>>>> Or is it taken already?
>>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in
>>> fact umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do
>>> math-relates things. I think adding "components" makes it look
>>> more like a library of base components that other math-related
>>> projects can use.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>> Gilles
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going
>>>>>> to do.
>>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity
>>>>> in
>>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
>>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common
>>>>> math
>>>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release
>>>>> artifacts.
>>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
>>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
>>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math
>>>>> area
>>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton?
>>>>>> Apache Euler?
>>>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz
>>>>>>> <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so
>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MathComponents
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Phil
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 1/25/16 12:40 AM, Ole Ersoy wrote:
> Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an
> umbrella. Some of the other Apache projects that do math may be
> interested in moving that piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
The ASF does not look favorably on "umbrella" projects. This is
because in these projects, the individual volunteers making up the
PMC inevitably lose sight of the full project. The governance model
that we have at Apache has no layers in it beneath the PMC. That
means PMCs need to be focused. "All things X" PMCs don't work. The
canonical example of that was Jakarta, which started as "all things
Java" and was eventually split up. We should definitely not try to
be "all things math" at the ASF. A better focus would be a nice set
math components in Java that other math-related projects inside and
outside the ASF can use. Kind of like, um, Commons Math as its own
TLP :)
Phil
>
> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated
> to the subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc So:
> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a whole
> with the documentation that cuts across modules)
> apache-math-linear-real
> apache-math-linear-field
> apache-math-optimization-genetic
> apache-math-optimization-simplex
> etc.
>
> And hopefully:
> apache-math-optimization-integer
> apache-math-optimization-mixed
> And more..
>
> Cheers,
> Ole
>
> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>
>>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles
>>> <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>>> Or is it taken already?
>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in
>> fact umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do
>> math-relates things. I think adding "components" makes it look
>> more like a library of base components that other math-related
>> projects can use.
>>
>> Phil
>>> Gilles
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going
>>>>> to do.
>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common
>>>> math
>>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>>>>> understand.
>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton?
>>>>> Apache Euler?
>>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz
>>>>>> <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so
>>>>>> won't
>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MathComponents
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phil
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
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>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Ole Ersoy <ol...@gmail.com>.
Umbrella-ish is good. Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an umbrella. Some of the other Apache projects that do math may be interested in moving that piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated to the subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc So:
apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a whole with the documentation that cuts across modules)
apache-math-linear-real
apache-math-linear-field
apache-math-optimization-genetic
apache-math-optimization-simplex
etc.
And hopefully:
apache-math-optimization-integer
apache-math-optimization-mixed
And more..
Cheers,
Ole
On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>
>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>>
>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>> Or is it taken already?
> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in fact umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do math-relates things. I think adding "components" makes it look more like a library of base components that other math-related projects can use.
>
> Phil
>> Gilles
>>
>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common math
>>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>
>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I understand.
>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache Euler?
>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>
>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>
>>>>> MathComponents
>>>>>
>>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>
> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
> Or is it taken already?
It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and in fact umbrella-ish. There are other ASF projects that do math-relates things. I think adding "components" makes it look more like a library of base components that other math-related projects can use.
Phil
>
> Gilles
>
>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
>>
>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common math
>> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>
>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>
>> Phil
>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I understand.
>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache Euler?
>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>
>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>
>>>> MathComponents
>>>>
>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>
>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
Or is it taken already?
Gilles
On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
>
> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common math
> programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
> "components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
> suggested the same approach to naming.
>
> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>
> Phil
>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I
>> understand.
>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache
>> Euler?
>> Apache Euclid?
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>
>>> My suggestion is
>>>
>>> MathComponents
>>>
>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>
>>> Phil
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the opportunity in
forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math]; but I
suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue to be a
general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide IP-clean,
easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions to common math
programming problems. We have grown to the point where we will
almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
"components." No umbrella, but likely multiple release artifacts.
Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which is why I
suggested the same approach to naming.
Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't much like
that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some math area
and / or cultural bias into the name.
Phil
> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I understand.
> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache Euler?
> Apache Euclid?
>
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>
>> My suggestion is
>>
>> MathComponents
>>
>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP is going to do.
Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from what I understand.
Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache Newton? Apache Euler?
Apache Euclid?
On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>
> My suggestion is
>
> MathComponents
>
> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>
> Phil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
>
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 2/3/16 8:58 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> When HttpClient left Commons I believe they took that opportunity to re-architect their code. In the end I think it paid off, but for quite I while lots of folks (myself included) continued using Commons HttpClient because the new version was regarded as immature. They also wanted to widen their scope a bit so they went from Apache Commons HttpClient to Apache Http Components.
>
> I don’t contribute to or use Apache Math myself, but given my experience with HttpClient I would say that using a name that strays very far from Math would be doing yourselves a disservice. It is a bit of a stretch to expect people to remember that Commons Math is now Apache Aardvark or some other obscure name when the one you have is pretty much perfect. The only way people will find you is via a link on the Commons home page whereas math.apache.org <http://math.apache.org/> just makes sense & is easy to remember.
Thanks, Ralf. The point above, made also by Patrick, is what
changed my vote from my initial suggestion "MathComponents" to just
"math."
Phil
>
> Ralph
>
>
>
>
>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 8:29 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 18:52:24 -0800, Gary Gregory wrote:
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 6:24 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 12:11:24 +1100, Peter Ansell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3 February 2016 at 11:30, Patrick Meyer <me...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Apache commons math library already has a reputation and is well
>>>>>> kvown.
>>>>>> Any name that does not involve the words Apache and math will require a
>>>>>> lot
>>>>>> of rebranding or years of explaining to people that the TLP named X is
>>>>>> really just the library formerly known as commons math. Removing
>>>>>> "commons"
>>>>>> from the name is a good way to signal the maturity of the math library
>>>>>> while staying true to its Apache origin. That's why I like Apache math.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think that outside of the Apache developer community that the
>>>>> "Commons" reference is taken to mean immaturity. If anything, it is
>>>>> taken to mean something that is stable and fairly slow to evolve and
>>>>> hence can be reused fairly broadly (per the tight scopes of each of
>>>>> the modules).
>>>>>
>>>> Indeed.
>>>> And if establishing is going to serve anything, it is IMHO certainly
>>>> not to be stuck with an a priori reputation of "being stable and fairly
>>>> slow to evolve".
>>>>
>>>> Commons Math has been steadily growing, with less and less consideration
>>>> for evolving with the language which it uses. IMO, that means, among other
>>>> things, less and less hope to attract new contributors.
>>>> Being a TLP is by itself not going to change that.
>>>>
>>>> If anything, the new project should mean a radical departure of being
>>>> stable wrt the latest release.
>>>>
>>>> For users that don't care for new features and are happy with CM 3.6,
>>>> no problem; until they find a bug. What happens then should be discussed
>>>> as soon as possible, as the default policy has been to support only the
>>>> latest release.
>>>>
>>>> To change that, more people are needed to maintain legacy code while
>>>> not hindering development, including major refactoring to modernize
>>>> the code.
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, the word "Math" on its own is fairly geographically localised.
>>>>> The base word Mathematics is less localised. However, given that the
>>>>> module has always been known as "Math", there are no qualms from me in
>>>>> staying with that term.
>>>>>
>>>> Staying with the old name is much less of a problem than staying
>>>> with the old ways.
>>>>
>>> Which "old ways"? I certainly hope you do not plan on shooting yourself in
>>> the foot by breaking BC on purpose.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>> IIRC, BC has never been broken in the last 7+ years, thanks to changing the
>> package name.
>> Yet this non-issue comes back every time I indicate that a project like CM
>> cannot be based on the postulate that refactoring is never needed.
>> The package name changes, hence the whole library can change while BC being
>> still safe.
>>
>> The old ways are that the default is that the same code gets transported to
>> the new package so that users can use old code in new clothes, just applying
>> a trivial search and replace.
>> That's (relatively) fine when all the current developers agree that no
>> better alternative can be provided for the next release.
>> When a problem has been identified, the new release should be taken as an
>> opportunity to solve it, even if it implies refactoring (and thus a major
>> release). [Someone said that we won't run out of release numbers.]
>>
>> If an identified need for bridging between old and new design arises, it
>> will be more interesting to find a way to achieve that, rather than having
>> to beg for every change on the assumption that some unknown user might be
>> unduly, affected by the evolution of the library (which is not true if the
>> package name has changed).
>>
>> Having multiple JARs would also alleviate the tension (provided that we drop
>> the postulate that everything should be "stable").
>>
>>
>> Gilles
>>
>>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 08:58:19 -0700, Ralph Goers wrote:
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> When HttpClient left Commons I believe they took that opportunity to
> re-architect their code. In the end I think it paid off,
Thanks for mentioning it.
I indeed see the move as a similar opportunity.
> but for quite
> I while lots of folks (myself included) continued using Commons
> HttpClient because the new version was regarded as immature.
That would be fine, I think.
I indirectly suggested as much by saying that people who are
happy with older versions Commons Math don't need to upgrade.
It remains to define a sustainable bug-fixing policy for these
old versions.
> They
> also wanted to widen their scope a bit so they went from Apache
> Commons HttpClient to Apache Http Components.
>
> I don’t contribute to or use Apache Math myself, but given my
> experience with HttpClient I would say that using a name that strays
> very far from Math would be doing yourselves a disservice. It is a
> bit of a stretch to expect people to remember that Commons Math is
> now
> Apache Aardvark or some other obscure name when the one you have is
> pretty much perfect. The only way people will find you is via a link
> on the Commons home page whereas math.apache.org
> <http://math.apache.org/> just makes sense & is easy to remember.
That's a valid argument, just not the only one.
IMO, a change of name would have been a good opportunity to stress a
change in the development management.
Keeping the same name seems to announce similar "change but no change"
for other issues that have been stagnant for years. I hope that the
(near) future will prove my fear was not justified.
Regards,
Gilles
> Ralph
>
>
>
>
>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 8:29 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 18:52:24 -0800, Gary Gregory wrote:
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 6:24 PM, Gilles
>>> <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 12:11:24 +1100, Peter Ansell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3 February 2016 at 11:30, Patrick Meyer <me...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Apache commons math library already has a reputation and is
>>>>>> well
>>>>>> kvown.
>>>>>> Any name that does not involve the words Apache and math will
>>>>>> require a
>>>>>> lot
>>>>>> of rebranding or years of explaining to people that the TLP
>>>>>> named X is
>>>>>> really just the library formerly known as commons math. Removing
>>>>>> "commons"
>>>>>> from the name is a good way to signal the maturity of the math
>>>>>> library
>>>>>> while staying true to its Apache origin. That's why I like
>>>>>> Apache math.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think that outside of the Apache developer community that
>>>>> the
>>>>> "Commons" reference is taken to mean immaturity. If anything, it
>>>>> is
>>>>> taken to mean something that is stable and fairly slow to evolve
>>>>> and
>>>>> hence can be reused fairly broadly (per the tight scopes of each
>>>>> of
>>>>> the modules).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Indeed.
>>>> And if establishing is going to serve anything, it is IMHO
>>>> certainly
>>>> not to be stuck with an a priori reputation of "being stable and
>>>> fairly
>>>> slow to evolve".
>>>>
>>>> Commons Math has been steadily growing, with less and less
>>>> consideration
>>>> for evolving with the language which it uses. IMO, that means,
>>>> among other
>>>> things, less and less hope to attract new contributors.
>>>> Being a TLP is by itself not going to change that.
>>>>
>>>> If anything, the new project should mean a radical departure of
>>>> being
>>>> stable wrt the latest release.
>>>>
>>>> For users that don't care for new features and are happy with CM
>>>> 3.6,
>>>> no problem; until they find a bug. What happens then should be
>>>> discussed
>>>> as soon as possible, as the default policy has been to support
>>>> only the
>>>> latest release.
>>>>
>>>> To change that, more people are needed to maintain legacy code
>>>> while
>>>> not hindering development, including major refactoring to
>>>> modernize
>>>> the code.
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, the word "Math" on its own is fairly geographically
>>>> localised.
>>>>> The base word Mathematics is less localised. However, given that
>>>>> the
>>>>> module has always been known as "Math", there are no qualms from
>>>>> me in
>>>>> staying with that term.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Staying with the old name is much less of a problem than staying
>>>> with the old ways.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Which "old ways"? I certainly hope you do not plan on shooting
>>> yourself in
>>> the foot by breaking BC on purpose.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>
>> IIRC, BC has never been broken in the last 7+ years, thanks to
>> changing the
>> package name.
>> Yet this non-issue comes back every time I indicate that a project
>> like CM
>> cannot be based on the postulate that refactoring is never needed.
>> The package name changes, hence the whole library can change while
>> BC being
>> still safe.
>>
>> The old ways are that the default is that the same code gets
>> transported to
>> the new package so that users can use old code in new clothes, just
>> applying
>> a trivial search and replace.
>> That's (relatively) fine when all the current developers agree that
>> no
>> better alternative can be provided for the next release.
>> When a problem has been identified, the new release should be taken
>> as an
>> opportunity to solve it, even if it implies refactoring (and thus a
>> major
>> release). [Someone said that we won't run out of release numbers.]
>>
>> If an identified need for bridging between old and new design
>> arises, it
>> will be more interesting to find a way to achieve that, rather than
>> having
>> to beg for every change on the assumption that some unknown user
>> might be
>> unduly, affected by the evolution of the library (which is not true
>> if the
>> package name has changed).
>>
>> Having multiple JARs would also alleviate the tension (provided that
>> we drop
>> the postulate that everything should be "stable").
>>
>>
>> Gilles
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
Just my 2 cents.
When HttpClient left Commons I believe they took that opportunity to re-architect their code. In the end I think it paid off, but for quite I while lots of folks (myself included) continued using Commons HttpClient because the new version was regarded as immature. They also wanted to widen their scope a bit so they went from Apache Commons HttpClient to Apache Http Components.
I don’t contribute to or use Apache Math myself, but given my experience with HttpClient I would say that using a name that strays very far from Math would be doing yourselves a disservice. It is a bit of a stretch to expect people to remember that Commons Math is now Apache Aardvark or some other obscure name when the one you have is pretty much perfect. The only way people will find you is via a link on the Commons home page whereas math.apache.org <http://math.apache.org/> just makes sense & is easy to remember.
Ralph
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 8:29 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 18:52:24 -0800, Gary Gregory wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 6:24 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 12:11:24 +1100, Peter Ansell wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3 February 2016 at 11:30, Patrick Meyer <me...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Apache commons math library already has a reputation and is well
>>>>> kvown.
>>>>> Any name that does not involve the words Apache and math will require a
>>>>> lot
>>>>> of rebranding or years of explaining to people that the TLP named X is
>>>>> really just the library formerly known as commons math. Removing
>>>>> "commons"
>>>>> from the name is a good way to signal the maturity of the math library
>>>>> while staying true to its Apache origin. That's why I like Apache math.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think that outside of the Apache developer community that the
>>>> "Commons" reference is taken to mean immaturity. If anything, it is
>>>> taken to mean something that is stable and fairly slow to evolve and
>>>> hence can be reused fairly broadly (per the tight scopes of each of
>>>> the modules).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Indeed.
>>> And if establishing is going to serve anything, it is IMHO certainly
>>> not to be stuck with an a priori reputation of "being stable and fairly
>>> slow to evolve".
>>>
>>> Commons Math has been steadily growing, with less and less consideration
>>> for evolving with the language which it uses. IMO, that means, among other
>>> things, less and less hope to attract new contributors.
>>> Being a TLP is by itself not going to change that.
>>>
>>> If anything, the new project should mean a radical departure of being
>>> stable wrt the latest release.
>>>
>>> For users that don't care for new features and are happy with CM 3.6,
>>> no problem; until they find a bug. What happens then should be discussed
>>> as soon as possible, as the default policy has been to support only the
>>> latest release.
>>>
>>> To change that, more people are needed to maintain legacy code while
>>> not hindering development, including major refactoring to modernize
>>> the code.
>>>
>>> FWIW, the word "Math" on its own is fairly geographically localised.
>>>> The base word Mathematics is less localised. However, given that the
>>>> module has always been known as "Math", there are no qualms from me in
>>>> staying with that term.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Staying with the old name is much less of a problem than staying
>>> with the old ways.
>>>
>>
>> Which "old ways"? I certainly hope you do not plan on shooting yourself in
>> the foot by breaking BC on purpose.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>
> IIRC, BC has never been broken in the last 7+ years, thanks to changing the
> package name.
> Yet this non-issue comes back every time I indicate that a project like CM
> cannot be based on the postulate that refactoring is never needed.
> The package name changes, hence the whole library can change while BC being
> still safe.
>
> The old ways are that the default is that the same code gets transported to
> the new package so that users can use old code in new clothes, just applying
> a trivial search and replace.
> That's (relatively) fine when all the current developers agree that no
> better alternative can be provided for the next release.
> When a problem has been identified, the new release should be taken as an
> opportunity to solve it, even if it implies refactoring (and thus a major
> release). [Someone said that we won't run out of release numbers.]
>
> If an identified need for bridging between old and new design arises, it
> will be more interesting to find a way to achieve that, rather than having
> to beg for every change on the assumption that some unknown user might be
> unduly, affected by the evolution of the library (which is not true if the
> package name has changed).
>
> Having multiple JARs would also alleviate the tension (provided that we drop
> the postulate that everything should be "stable").
>
>
> Gilles
>
>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 18:52:24 -0800, Gary Gregory wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 6:24 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 12:11:24 +1100, Peter Ansell wrote:
>>
>>> On 3 February 2016 at 11:30, Patrick Meyer <me...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Apache commons math library already has a reputation and is
>>>> well
>>>> kvown.
>>>> Any name that does not involve the words Apache and math will
>>>> require a
>>>> lot
>>>> of rebranding or years of explaining to people that the TLP named
>>>> X is
>>>> really just the library formerly known as commons math. Removing
>>>> "commons"
>>>> from the name is a good way to signal the maturity of the math
>>>> library
>>>> while staying true to its Apache origin. That's why I like Apache
>>>> math.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think that outside of the Apache developer community that
>>> the
>>> "Commons" reference is taken to mean immaturity. If anything, it is
>>> taken to mean something that is stable and fairly slow to evolve
>>> and
>>> hence can be reused fairly broadly (per the tight scopes of each of
>>> the modules).
>>>
>>
>> Indeed.
>> And if establishing is going to serve anything, it is IMHO certainly
>> not to be stuck with an a priori reputation of "being stable and
>> fairly
>> slow to evolve".
>>
>> Commons Math has been steadily growing, with less and less
>> consideration
>> for evolving with the language which it uses. IMO, that means, among
>> other
>> things, less and less hope to attract new contributors.
>> Being a TLP is by itself not going to change that.
>>
>> If anything, the new project should mean a radical departure of
>> being
>> stable wrt the latest release.
>>
>> For users that don't care for new features and are happy with CM
>> 3.6,
>> no problem; until they find a bug. What happens then should be
>> discussed
>> as soon as possible, as the default policy has been to support only
>> the
>> latest release.
>>
>> To change that, more people are needed to maintain legacy code while
>> not hindering development, including major refactoring to modernize
>> the code.
>>
>> FWIW, the word "Math" on its own is fairly geographically localised.
>>> The base word Mathematics is less localised. However, given that
>>> the
>>> module has always been known as "Math", there are no qualms from me
>>> in
>>> staying with that term.
>>>
>>
>> Staying with the old name is much less of a problem than staying
>> with the old ways.
>>
>
> Which "old ways"? I certainly hope you do not plan on shooting
> yourself in
> the foot by breaking BC on purpose.
>
> Gary
>
IIRC, BC has never been broken in the last 7+ years, thanks to changing
the
package name.
Yet this non-issue comes back every time I indicate that a project like
CM
cannot be based on the postulate that refactoring is never needed.
The package name changes, hence the whole library can change while BC
being
still safe.
The old ways are that the default is that the same code gets
transported to
the new package so that users can use old code in new clothes, just
applying
a trivial search and replace.
That's (relatively) fine when all the current developers agree that no
better alternative can be provided for the next release.
When a problem has been identified, the new release should be taken as
an
opportunity to solve it, even if it implies refactoring (and thus a
major
release). [Someone said that we won't run out of release numbers.]
If an identified need for bridging between old and new design arises,
it
will be more interesting to find a way to achieve that, rather than
having
to beg for every change on the assumption that some unknown user might
be
unduly, affected by the evolution of the library (which is not true if
the
package name has changed).
Having multiple JARs would also alleviate the tension (provided that we
drop
the postulate that everything should be "stable").
Gilles
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 6:24 PM, Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 12:11:24 +1100, Peter Ansell wrote:
>
>> On 3 February 2016 at 11:30, Patrick Meyer <me...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Apache commons math library already has a reputation and is well
>>> kvown.
>>> Any name that does not involve the words Apache and math will require a
>>> lot
>>> of rebranding or years of explaining to people that the TLP named X is
>>> really just the library formerly known as commons math. Removing
>>> "commons"
>>> from the name is a good way to signal the maturity of the math library
>>> while staying true to its Apache origin. That's why I like Apache math.
>>>
>>
>> I don't think that outside of the Apache developer community that the
>> "Commons" reference is taken to mean immaturity. If anything, it is
>> taken to mean something that is stable and fairly slow to evolve and
>> hence can be reused fairly broadly (per the tight scopes of each of
>> the modules).
>>
>
> Indeed.
> And if establishing is going to serve anything, it is IMHO certainly
> not to be stuck with an a priori reputation of "being stable and fairly
> slow to evolve".
>
> Commons Math has been steadily growing, with less and less consideration
> for evolving with the language which it uses. IMO, that means, among other
> things, less and less hope to attract new contributors.
> Being a TLP is by itself not going to change that.
>
> If anything, the new project should mean a radical departure of being
> stable wrt the latest release.
>
> For users that don't care for new features and are happy with CM 3.6,
> no problem; until they find a bug. What happens then should be discussed
> as soon as possible, as the default policy has been to support only the
> latest release.
>
> To change that, more people are needed to maintain legacy code while
> not hindering development, including major refactoring to modernize
> the code.
>
> FWIW, the word "Math" on its own is fairly geographically localised.
>> The base word Mathematics is less localised. However, given that the
>> module has always been known as "Math", there are no qualms from me in
>> staying with that term.
>>
>
> Staying with the old name is much less of a problem than staying
> with the old ways.
>
Which "old ways"? I certainly hope you do not plan on shooting yourself in
the foot by breaking BC on purpose.
Gary
>
> Gilles
>
>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Peter
>>
>
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 12:11:24 +1100, Peter Ansell wrote:
> On 3 February 2016 at 11:30, Patrick Meyer <me...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> The Apache commons math library already has a reputation and is well
>> kvown.
>> Any name that does not involve the words Apache and math will
>> require a lot
>> of rebranding or years of explaining to people that the TLP named X
>> is
>> really just the library formerly known as commons math. Removing
>> "commons"
>> from the name is a good way to signal the maturity of the math
>> library
>> while staying true to its Apache origin. That's why I like Apache
>> math.
>
> I don't think that outside of the Apache developer community that the
> "Commons" reference is taken to mean immaturity. If anything, it is
> taken to mean something that is stable and fairly slow to evolve and
> hence can be reused fairly broadly (per the tight scopes of each of
> the modules).
Indeed.
And if establishing is going to serve anything, it is IMHO certainly
not to be stuck with an a priori reputation of "being stable and fairly
slow to evolve".
Commons Math has been steadily growing, with less and less
consideration
for evolving with the language which it uses. IMO, that means, among
other
things, less and less hope to attract new contributors.
Being a TLP is by itself not going to change that.
If anything, the new project should mean a radical departure of being
stable wrt the latest release.
For users that don't care for new features and are happy with CM 3.6,
no problem; until they find a bug. What happens then should be
discussed
as soon as possible, as the default policy has been to support only the
latest release.
To change that, more people are needed to maintain legacy code while
not hindering development, including major refactoring to modernize
the code.
> FWIW, the word "Math" on its own is fairly geographically localised.
> The base word Mathematics is less localised. However, given that the
> module has always been known as "Math", there are no qualms from me
> in
> staying with that term.
Staying with the old name is much less of a problem than staying
with the old ways.
Gilles
>
> Cheers,
>
> Peter
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Peter Ansell <an...@gmail.com>.
On 3 February 2016 at 11:30, Patrick Meyer <me...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Apache commons math library already has a reputation and is well kvown.
> Any name that does not involve the words Apache and math will require a lot
> of rebranding or years of explaining to people that the TLP named X is
> really just the library formerly known as commons math. Removing "commons"
> from the name is a good way to signal the maturity of the math library
> while staying true to its Apache origin. That's why I like Apache math.
I don't think that outside of the Apache developer community that the
"Commons" reference is taken to mean immaturity. If anything, it is
taken to mean something that is stable and fairly slow to evolve and
hence can be reused fairly broadly (per the tight scopes of each of
the modules).
FWIW, the word "Math" on its own is fairly geographically localised.
The base word Mathematics is less localised. However, given that the
module has always been known as "Math", there are no qualms from me in
staying with that term.
Cheers,
Peter
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Patrick Meyer <me...@gmail.com>.
The Apache commons math library already has a reputation and is well kvown.
Any name that does not involve the words Apache and math will require a lot
of rebranding or years of explaining to people that the TLP named X is
really just the library formerly known as commons math. Removing "commons"
from the name is a good way to signal the maturity of the math library
while staying true to its Apache origin. That's why I like Apache math.
On Feb 2, 2016 5:50 PM, "Gilles" <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 14:17:06 -0800, Gary Gregory wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:50 PM, Niall Pemberton <
>> niall.pemberton@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 9:08 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>>> > descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
>>> > be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>> >
>>> > My suggestion is
>>> >
>>> > MathComponents
>>> >
>>> > Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>> >
>>>
>>> I've just started learning modern Greek and Math is Μαθηματικά -
>>> (Mathematika) - so how about "Apache Mathematika"?
>>>
>>>
>> And get a nasty letter from https://www.wolfram.com/mathematica/ perhaps?
>>
>> Gary
>>
>
> Are you implying that they would dare challenge our usage of a name
> that is absolutely not entertaining any confusion?
> As anyone can observe,
> 1. there is a prefix referring to a native American tribe (which thus
> has nothing to do with programming computers), and
> 2. the (common) word referring to "mathematics" is clearly spelled
> differently.
>
> Thus, _nothing_ to worry about.
> 8-}
>
> Gilles
>
>
>>> Niall
>>>
>>
>
>
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>
>
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gilles <gi...@harfang.homelinux.org>.
On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 14:17:06 -0800, Gary Gregory wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:50 PM, Niall Pemberton
> <ni...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 9:08 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
>> > descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so
>> won't
>> > be offended if others want to be more creative.
>> >
>> > My suggestion is
>> >
>> > MathComponents
>> >
>> > Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>> >
>>
>> I've just started learning modern Greek and Math is Μαθηματικά -
>> (Mathematika) - so how about "Apache Mathematika"?
>>
>
> And get a nasty letter from https://www.wolfram.com/mathematica/
> perhaps?
>
> Gary
Are you implying that they would dare challenge our usage of a name
that is absolutely not entertaining any confusion?
As anyone can observe,
1. there is a prefix referring to a native American tribe (which thus
has nothing to do with programming computers), and
2. the (common) word referring to "mathematics" is clearly spelled
differently.
Thus, _nothing_ to worry about.
8-}
Gilles
>>
>> Niall
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:50 PM, Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 9:08 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
> > descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
> > be offended if others want to be more creative.
> >
> > My suggestion is
> >
> > MathComponents
> >
> > Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
> >
>
> I've just started learning modern Greek and Math is Μαθηματικά -
> (Mathematika) - so how about "Apache Mathematika"?
>
And get a nasty letter from https://www.wolfram.com/mathematica/ perhaps?
Gary
>
> Niall
>
>
>
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >
> >
>
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Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 9:08 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We need to agree on a name. My own preference is for a boring,
> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing guy, so won't
> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>
> My suggestion is
>
> MathComponents
>
> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>
I've just started learning modern Greek and Math is Μαθηματικά -
(Mathematika) - so how about "Apache Mathematika"?
Niall
>
> Phil
>
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>
>
Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 10:08 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We need to agree on a name...
FWIW from the board's point of view, once that's done it's good to
create a https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH
ticket to document the name search. It's fine to use that jira project
even though you're not creating a podling.
-Bertrand
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