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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by Manak Bisht <ma...@iiitd.ac.in> on 2023/12/01 08:27:10 UTC
(No members active in cluster group) Cannot discover members in cluster using Delta Manager with static membership Unicast
Hi, I am trying to implement non-sticky session replication using Delta
Manager with static membership. The nodes are across two different
machines. I am unable to discover members in the cluster with the following
logs on both machines -
org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.startInternal Register manager
localhost# to cluster element Engine with name Catalina
org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.startInternal Starting
clustering manager at localhost#
org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.getAllClusterSessions Manager
[localhost#]: skipping state transfer. No members active in cluster group.
Please find the cluster settings (inside the *<Engine> *tag) below. I have
also added the *<distributable/> *tag to the *web.xml *files.
*Node_1*
<Cluster className="org.apache.catalina.ha.tcp.SimpleTcpCluster"
channelSendOptions="6" channelStartOptions="3">
<Manager className="org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager"
expireSessionsOnShutdown="false"
notifyListenersOnReplication="true"/>
<Channel className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.group.GroupChannel">
<Receiver
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.transport.nio.NioReceiver"
address="127.0.0.1"
port="8090"
autoBind="0"
maxThreads="6"/>
<Sender
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.transport.ReplicationTransmitter">
<Transport
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.transport.nio.PooledParallelSender"/>
</Sender>
<Interceptor
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.group.interceptors.TcpPingInterceptor"/>
<Interceptor
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.group.interceptors.TcpFailureDetector"/>
<Interceptor
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.group.interceptors.StaticMembershipInterceptor">
<LocalMember
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.membership.StaticMember"
domain="delta-static"
uniqueId="{0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1}"/>
<Member
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.membership.StaticMember"
port="8090"
host="tomcat2.apache.infra"
domain="delta-static"
uniqueId="{0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2}"/>
</Interceptor>
<Interceptor
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.group.interceptors.MessageDispatchInterceptor"/>
</Channel>
<Valve className="org.apache.catalina.ha.tcp.ReplicationValve"
filter=""/>
<Valve className="org.apache.catalina.ha.session.JvmRouteBinderValve"/>
<ClusterListener
className="org.apache.catalina.ha.session.ClusterSessionListener"/>
</Cluster>
*Node_2*
<Cluster className="org.apache.catalina.ha.tcp.SimpleTcpCluster"
channelSendOptions="6" channelStartOptions="3">
<Manager className="org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager"
expireSessionsOnShutdown="false"
notifyListenersOnReplication="true"/>
<Channel className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.group.GroupChannel">
<Receiver
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.transport.nio.NioReceiver"
address="127.0.0.1"
port="8090"
autoBind="0"
maxThreads="6"/>
<Sender
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.transport.ReplicationTransmitter">
<Transport
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.transport.nio.PooledParallelSender"/>
</Sender>
<Interceptor
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.group.interceptors.TcpPingInterceptor"/>
<Interceptor
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.group.interceptors.TcpFailureDetector"/>
<Interceptor
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.group.interceptors.StaticMembershipInterceptor">
<LocalMember
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.membership.StaticMember"
domain="delta-static"
uniqueId="{0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2}"/>
<Member
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.membership.StaticMember"
port="8090"
host="tomcat1.apache.infra"
domain="delta-static"
uniqueId="{0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1}"/>
</Interceptor>
<Interceptor
className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.group.interceptors.MessageDispatchInterceptor"/>
</Channel>
<Valve className="org.apache.catalina.ha.tcp.ReplicationValve"
filter=""/>
<Valve className="org.apache.catalina.ha.session.JvmRouteBinderValve"/>
<ClusterListener
className="org.apache.catalina.ha.session.ClusterSessionListener"/>
</Cluster>
What am I doing wrong here? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely
Manak Bisht
Re: (No members active in cluster group) Cannot discover members in cluster using Delta Manager with static membership Unicast
Posted by Manak Bisht <ma...@iiitd.ac.in>.
Thanks a lot for the informative reply, Chris. I really appreciate it.
> If you have a good reason to disable stickness, I'd love to hear the
> reasoning.
>
While both the DeltaManager and BackupManager solve my problem of
autoscaling/failover without any re-logins required, I have noticed a lot
of load imbalance on my servers due to user usage patterns. I haven't been
able to figure out an alternate way to solve that.
My session object is also fully/largely immutable, so I am thinking that I
won't encounter the parallel requests problem.
Sincerely
Manak Bisht
Re: (No members active in cluster group) Cannot discover members in cluster using Delta Manager with static membership Unicast
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
Manak,
On 12/1/23 03:27, Manak Bisht wrote:
> Hi, I am trying to implement non-sticky session replication using Delta
> Manager with static membership. The nodes are across two different
> machines.
This isn't really relevant to your issue, but I would *always* recommend
enabling stickiness. Why? I'll tell you.
The DeltaManager (and really any clustered Manager) works by listening
for HttpSessionAttributeListener events and, after a request has
completed, distributing the changes to the session across all other
cluster members.
You can almost think of it like an RDBMS transaction: INSERT, UPDATE,
DELETE... then COMMIT. Not until the COMMIT will the rest of the cluster
see the changes.
Your browser will happily make multiple simultaneous requests to a web
service, so there can be multiple requests in flight at any one time. If
these go to different servers in your cluster (because you have disabled
stickiness), then two requests can be modifying the state of your users'
sessions separately on any number of servers simultaneously, and
independently of each other. You cannot predict which request will go
where and when the replication from any source node will occur and take
effect on any destination node.
The situation is sufficiently chaotic that something odd like this may
affect a user:
1. They are looking at a view in your application
2. They choose a "change language" option that switches from e.g.
English to e.g. French
3. The request from (2) above goes to Node X, and the session's locale
changes from "en" to "fr", and the response includes a redirect e.g.
"back to the same page you were just looking at"
4. The client follows the redirect, but hits Node Y in your cluster,
which has not yet received the session-replication-event which includes
the updated locale setting. The response is shown in English, because
that's the value still in the user's session.
5. The user files a bug report, stating "When I changed language, the
change didn't take effect until the SECOND request".
6. Nobody can replicate the problem in dev/testing because either the
dev/test cluster is too fast or you don't bother with clustered sessions
in dev/test.
If you enable stickiness, all requests will be delivered to the same
server and the above situation is extraordinarily unlikely. The only
time your user has to switch servers is if their primary node fails for
some reason. When failover occurs, Strange Things are bound to happen
for a variety of reasons, but those situations are unusual. If you
disable stickiness, those Weird Things can literally happen with /every
request/.
If you have a good reason to disable stickness, I'd love to hear the
reasoning.
-chris
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Re: (No members active in cluster group) Cannot discover members in cluster using Delta Manager with static membership Unicast
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
Peter,
On 12/1/23 10:12, logo@kreuser.name wrote:
> Chuck,
>
>> Am 01.12.2023 um 16:07 schrieb Chuck Caldarale <n8...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 1, 2023, at 02:27, Manak Bisht <ma...@iiitd.ac.in> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, I am trying to implement non-sticky session replication using Delta
>>> Manager with static membership. The nodes are across two different
>>> machines. I am unable to discover members in the cluster with the following
>>> logs on both machines -
>>>
>>> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.startInternal Register manager
>>> localhost# to cluster element Engine with name Catalina
>>> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.startInternal Starting
>>> clustering manager at localhost#
>>> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.getAllClusterSessions Manager
>>> [localhost#]: skipping state transfer. No members active in cluster group.
>>>
>>> Please find the cluster settings (inside the *<Engine> *tag) below. I have
>>> also added the *<distributable/> *tag to the *web.xml *files.
>>>
>>> *Node_1*
>>
>> . . .
>>
>>> <Channel className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.group.GroupChannel">
>>> <Receiver
>>> className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.transport.nio.NioReceiver"
>>> address="127.0.0.1"
>>> port="8090"
>>> autoBind="0"
>>> maxThreads="6”/>
>>
>>
>> I’m not a clustering expert, but perhaps the address value needs to be an IP address accessible to the other machine in the cluster. The above 127.0.0.1 (localhost) would appear to limit each receiver to the machine it’s running on.
>>
>> The second node has the same issue.
>
> NICE find!
🙈🙉
-chris
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Re: (No members active in cluster group) Cannot discover members in cluster using Delta Manager with static membership Unicast
Posted by lo...@kreuser.name.
Chuck,
> Am 01.12.2023 um 16:07 schrieb Chuck Caldarale <n8...@gmail.com>:
>
>
>> On Dec 1, 2023, at 02:27, Manak Bisht <ma...@iiitd.ac.in> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, I am trying to implement non-sticky session replication using Delta
>> Manager with static membership. The nodes are across two different
>> machines. I am unable to discover members in the cluster with the following
>> logs on both machines -
>>
>> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.startInternal Register manager
>> localhost# to cluster element Engine with name Catalina
>> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.startInternal Starting
>> clustering manager at localhost#
>> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.getAllClusterSessions Manager
>> [localhost#]: skipping state transfer. No members active in cluster group.
>>
>> Please find the cluster settings (inside the *<Engine> *tag) below. I have
>> also added the *<distributable/> *tag to the *web.xml *files.
>>
>> *Node_1*
>
> . . .
>
>> <Channel className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.group.GroupChannel">
>> <Receiver
>> className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.transport.nio.NioReceiver"
>> address="127.0.0.1"
>> port="8090"
>> autoBind="0"
>> maxThreads="6”/>
>
>
> I’m not a clustering expert, but perhaps the address value needs to be an IP address accessible to the other machine in the cluster. The above 127.0.0.1 (localhost) would appear to limit each receiver to the machine it’s running on.
>
> The second node has the same issue.
NICE find!
>
> - Chuck
>
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Re: (No members active in cluster group) Cannot discover members in cluster using Delta Manager with static membership Unicast
Posted by Manak Bisht <ma...@iiitd.ac.in>.
> I’m not a clustering expert, but perhaps the address value needs to be an
> IP address accessible to the other machine in the cluster. The above
> 127.0.0.1 (localhost) would appear to limit each receiver to the machine
> it’s running on.
>
Yes, that was it. Replacing the address with "0.0.0.0" fixed the issue.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Sincerely
Manak Bisht
Re: (No members active in cluster group) Cannot discover members in cluster using Delta Manager with static membership Unicast
Posted by Chuck Caldarale <n8...@gmail.com>.
> On Dec 1, 2023, at 02:27, Manak Bisht <ma...@iiitd.ac.in> wrote:
>
> Hi, I am trying to implement non-sticky session replication using Delta
> Manager with static membership. The nodes are across two different
> machines. I am unable to discover members in the cluster with the following
> logs on both machines -
>
> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.startInternal Register manager
> localhost# to cluster element Engine with name Catalina
> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.startInternal Starting
> clustering manager at localhost#
> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.getAllClusterSessions Manager
> [localhost#]: skipping state transfer. No members active in cluster group.
>
> Please find the cluster settings (inside the *<Engine> *tag) below. I have
> also added the *<distributable/> *tag to the *web.xml *files.
>
> *Node_1*
. . .
> <Channel className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.group.GroupChannel">
> <Receiver
> className="org.apache.catalina.tribes.transport.nio.NioReceiver"
> address="127.0.0.1"
> port="8090"
> autoBind="0"
> maxThreads="6”/>
I’m not a clustering expert, but perhaps the address value needs to be an IP address accessible to the other machine in the cluster. The above 127.0.0.1 (localhost) would appear to limit each receiver to the machine it’s running on.
The second node has the same issue.
- Chuck
Re: (No members active in cluster group) Cannot discover members in cluster using Delta Manager with static membership Unicast
Posted by Manak Bisht <ma...@iiitd.ac.in>.
Sorry, I forgot to mention, but I am using Tomcat 8.5
Sincerely
Manak Bisht
On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 3:40 PM Manak Bisht <ma...@iiitd.ac.in> wrote:
> Thanks for the reply Mark.
>
> The channelStartOptions setting is from the documentation
> https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-8.5-doc/config/cluster.html
> *"To start a channel without multicasting, you would want to use the value
> Channel.SND_RX_SEQ | Channel.SND_TX_SEQ that equals to 3. "*
>
> This configuration is working fine when both nodes are on the same local
> machine (with different ports). It's on the multi machine setup that I am
> facing a problem. Pinging the other machines is fine from both nodes, so it
> should not be a networking issue.
>
> Also, the documentation also says that the *distributable *tag is
> deprecated and ignored since Tomcat 8 (
> https://tomcat.apache.org/migration-9)
> *"The distributable attribute has been deprecated in 8.0 and specified
> value is ignored."*
>
> Sincerely
> Manak Bisht
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 2:21 PM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On 01/12/2023 08:27, Manak Bisht wrote:
>> > Hi, I am trying to implement non-sticky session replication using Delta
>> > Manager with static membership. The nodes are across two different
>> > machines. I am unable to discover members in the cluster with the
>> following
>> > logs on both machines -
>> >
>> > org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.startInternal Register
>> manager
>> > localhost# to cluster element Engine with name Catalina
>> > org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.startInternal Starting
>> > clustering manager at localhost#
>> > org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.getAllClusterSessions
>> Manager
>> > [localhost#]: skipping state transfer. No members active in cluster
>> group.
>> >
>> > Please find the cluster settings (inside the *<Engine> *tag) below. I
>> have
>> > also added the *<distributable/> *tag to the *web.xml *files.
>> >
>> > *Node_1*
>> > <Cluster className="org.apache.catalina.ha.tcp.SimpleTcpCluster"
>> > channelSendOptions="6" channelStartOptions="3">
>>
>> Why channelStartOptions=3 ? I think this shoudl use the default.
>>
>> > <Manager className="org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager"
>> > expireSessionsOnShutdown="false"
>> > notifyListenersOnReplication="true"/>
>>
>> Minor point but I try not to define values that are using the defaults
>> so I cam more easily see the 'interesting' settings.
>>
>> <snip/>
>>
>> > What am I doing wrong here? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Nothing else jumps out at me immediately.
>>
>> Mark
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>
>>
Re: (No members active in cluster group) Cannot discover members in cluster using Delta Manager with static membership Unicast
Posted by Manak Bisht <ma...@iiitd.ac.in>.
To use *DeltaManager* with unicast (static membership), the Tomcat 8.5
documentation (https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-8.5-doc/config/cluster.html)
states that the channelStartOptions should be equal to *3*. In my original
example, I am using the same value with the *StaticMembershipInterceptor*.
However, the value should be left as the default when using the
*StaticMembershipService* according to the Tomcat 9.0 documentation (
https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-9.0-doc/config/cluster.html). This is what
Mark suggested.
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 2:21 PM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> Why channelStartOptions=3 ? I think this shoudl use the default.
I am still not sure why this distinction exists.
Sincerely
Manak Bisht
Re: (No members active in cluster group) Cannot discover members in cluster using Delta Manager with static membership Unicast
Posted by Deepak Lalchandani <de...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
Can you please 🙏 share what's going on in this post
Thanks and Regards,
Deepak Lalchandani
On Wed, 6 Dec 2023, 10:59 pm Manak Bisht, <ma...@iiitd.ac.in> wrote:
> Hi Mark
> Could you please clarify this?
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 3:40 PM Manak Bisht <ma...@iiitd.ac.in> wrote:
>
> > The channelStartOptions setting is from the documentation
> > https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-8.5-doc/config/cluster.html
> > *"To start a channel without multicasting, you would want to use the
> value
> > Channel.SND_RX_SEQ | Channel.SND_TX_SEQ that equals to 3. "*
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 2:21 PM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> > <Cluster className="org.apache.catalina.ha.tcp.SimpleTcpCluster"
> >> > channelSendOptions="6" channelStartOptions="3">
> >>
> >> Why channelStartOptions=3 ? I think this shoudl use the default.
> >>
> >
> Sincerely
> Manak Bisht
>
Re: (No members active in cluster group) Cannot discover members in cluster using Delta Manager with static membership Unicast
Posted by Manak Bisht <ma...@iiitd.ac.in>.
Hi Mark
Could you please clarify this?
On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 3:40 PM Manak Bisht <ma...@iiitd.ac.in> wrote:
> The channelStartOptions setting is from the documentation
> https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-8.5-doc/config/cluster.html
> *"To start a channel without multicasting, you would want to use the value
> Channel.SND_RX_SEQ | Channel.SND_TX_SEQ that equals to 3. "*
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 2:21 PM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> > <Cluster className="org.apache.catalina.ha.tcp.SimpleTcpCluster"
>> > channelSendOptions="6" channelStartOptions="3">
>>
>> Why channelStartOptions=3 ? I think this shoudl use the default.
>>
>
Sincerely
Manak Bisht
Re: (No members active in cluster group) Cannot discover members in cluster using Delta Manager with static membership Unicast
Posted by Manak Bisht <ma...@iiitd.ac.in>.
> Also, the documentation also says that the *distributable *tag is
> deprecated and ignored since Tomcat 8 (
> https://tomcat.apache.org/migration-9)
> *"The distributable attribute has been deprecated in 8.0 and specified
> value is ignored."*
>
*Note for future readers: *In the previous email, I *incorrectly* mentioned
that the <distributable/> tag (in the *web.xml*) had been deprecated. The
documentation is referring to the *distributable *attribute of the *Manager
*component.
Sincerely
Manak Bisht
Re: (No members active in cluster group) Cannot discover members in cluster using Delta Manager with static membership Unicast
Posted by Manak Bisht <ma...@iiitd.ac.in>.
Thanks for the reply Mark.
The channelStartOptions setting is from the documentation
https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-8.5-doc/config/cluster.html
*"To start a channel without multicasting, you would want to use the value
Channel.SND_RX_SEQ | Channel.SND_TX_SEQ that equals to 3. "*
This configuration is working fine when both nodes are on the same local
machine (with different ports). It's on the multi machine setup that I am
facing a problem. Pinging the other machines is fine from both nodes, so it
should not be a networking issue.
Also, the documentation also says that the *distributable *tag is
deprecated and ignored since Tomcat 8 (https://tomcat.apache.org/migration-9
)
*"The distributable attribute has been deprecated in 8.0 and specified
value is ignored."*
Sincerely
Manak Bisht
On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 2:21 PM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 01/12/2023 08:27, Manak Bisht wrote:
> > Hi, I am trying to implement non-sticky session replication using Delta
> > Manager with static membership. The nodes are across two different
> > machines. I am unable to discover members in the cluster with the
> following
> > logs on both machines -
> >
> > org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.startInternal Register
> manager
> > localhost# to cluster element Engine with name Catalina
> > org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.startInternal Starting
> > clustering manager at localhost#
> > org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.getAllClusterSessions Manager
> > [localhost#]: skipping state transfer. No members active in cluster
> group.
> >
> > Please find the cluster settings (inside the *<Engine> *tag) below. I
> have
> > also added the *<distributable/> *tag to the *web.xml *files.
> >
> > *Node_1*
> > <Cluster className="org.apache.catalina.ha.tcp.SimpleTcpCluster"
> > channelSendOptions="6" channelStartOptions="3">
>
> Why channelStartOptions=3 ? I think this shoudl use the default.
>
> > <Manager className="org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager"
> > expireSessionsOnShutdown="false"
> > notifyListenersOnReplication="true"/>
>
> Minor point but I try not to define values that are using the defaults
> so I cam more easily see the 'interesting' settings.
>
> <snip/>
>
> > What am I doing wrong here? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Nothing else jumps out at me immediately.
>
> Mark
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>
>
Re: (No members active in cluster group) Cannot discover members in cluster using Delta Manager with static membership Unicast
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 01/12/2023 08:27, Manak Bisht wrote:
> Hi, I am trying to implement non-sticky session replication using Delta
> Manager with static membership. The nodes are across two different
> machines. I am unable to discover members in the cluster with the following
> logs on both machines -
>
> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.startInternal Register manager
> localhost# to cluster element Engine with name Catalina
> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.startInternal Starting
> clustering manager at localhost#
> org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager.getAllClusterSessions Manager
> [localhost#]: skipping state transfer. No members active in cluster group.
>
> Please find the cluster settings (inside the *<Engine> *tag) below. I have
> also added the *<distributable/> *tag to the *web.xml *files.
>
> *Node_1*
> <Cluster className="org.apache.catalina.ha.tcp.SimpleTcpCluster"
> channelSendOptions="6" channelStartOptions="3">
Why channelStartOptions=3 ? I think this shoudl use the default.
> <Manager className="org.apache.catalina.ha.session.DeltaManager"
> expireSessionsOnShutdown="false"
> notifyListenersOnReplication="true"/>
Minor point but I try not to define values that are using the defaults
so I cam more easily see the 'interesting' settings.
<snip/>
> What am I doing wrong here? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Nothing else jumps out at me immediately.
Mark
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