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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com> on 2013/02/13 15:50:14 UTC
[DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Hi all,
I started a conversation within cloudstack-private@i.a.o about the
prospect of graduation from the incubator, and have received positive
reactions from everyone that replied.
I wanted to kick off the discussion here on the public list, to see if
anyone has any concerns or objections to us starting down the path of
trying to graduate?
My general impression is that we have come a long way as a community
since CloudStack entered the incubator. While there are still rough edges
for us to work through over time, we are dealing with our problems quite
well as a community. The simple reason that I believe we are in a
position to ask to graduate, is that we are no longer getting value from
the incubation process! That's a good thing, because it means that we
have managed to learn quite a bit about the ASF processes, rules,
methods and preferences.
Thoughts, comments, discussion?
If the community is in general agreement, we have some work to get done:
We need to go through the podling status file, and ensure that we have
completed everything that needs to be completed:
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/cloudstack.html
The CloudStack trademark is currently owned by Citrix. We need to have
that transfered to ASF prior to graduation. David also suggested in the
private list that we probably need to execute the formal ASF name
search, for the purpose of providing the ASF with assurances that there
are no surprise conflicts.
Once we get the final pre-graduation requirements completed, we need to
go through the process of attempting to graduate. I suggest that folks
take a minute to read through the Incubator's Guide to Successful
Graduation page [1].
The first step of the process seems to be to kick off a formal community
vote to propose graduation to the IPMC. If we vote to graduate, then we
have to draft a charter / graduation resolution. This is will be
proposed to the IPMC for their review, and if passed in an IPMC vote we
forward it to the ASF board for their vote during a monthly board
meeting.
So that's the high level process... As I asked above, any thoughts?
-chip
[1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by Mike Tutkowski <mi...@solidfire.com>.
OK, thanks, everyone
I've only been involved with CloudStack for a couple months now, so am
trying to understand process in addition to the way the system works and
how the code is structured.
Good stuff :)
On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Alex Huang <Al...@citrix.com> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> It is important to note that it is much more preferable to drive a
> consensus through discussion than to make a vote. Vote should be something
> of a last resort to use. Also only emails with [VOTE] is asking for a
> vote. In emails without such tag, the +1 just means the sender liking
> something said in the email.
>
> --Alex
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe Brockmeier [mailto:jzb@zonker.net]
> > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 12:23 PM
> > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013, at 02:08 PM, Mike Tutkowski wrote:
> > > Can I ask what may be a silly question about voting? :)
> >
> > That's not a silly question.
> >
> > > When these votes are put out there, who can vote? Just committers or
> > > anyone participating in the community?
> >
> > Anyone can vote, but only some of the votes are binding. If you see a
> > vote taking place that you feel you have a stake in / an opinion on, you
> > should feel free to vote anyway.
> >
> > Why? Even if your vote isn't binding, it may be useful to understand how
> > folks in the community think about something even if their vote isn't
> > binding.
> >
> > I believe it's PPMC votes that are binding for the vote held within the
> > podling, btw. But please don't let that stop you from weighing in if you
> > wish to.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > jzb
> > --
> > Joe Brockmeier
> > jzb@zonker.net
> > Twitter: @jzb
> > http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
>
--
*Mike Tutkowski*
*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
o: 303.746.7302
Advancing the way the world uses the
cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
*™*
RE: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by Alex Huang <Al...@citrix.com>.
Mike,
It is important to note that it is much more preferable to drive a consensus through discussion than to make a vote. Vote should be something of a last resort to use. Also only emails with [VOTE] is asking for a vote. In emails without such tag, the +1 just means the sender liking something said in the email.
--Alex
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Brockmeier [mailto:jzb@zonker.net]
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 12:23 PM
> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
>
> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013, at 02:08 PM, Mike Tutkowski wrote:
> > Can I ask what may be a silly question about voting? :)
>
> That's not a silly question.
>
> > When these votes are put out there, who can vote? Just committers or
> > anyone participating in the community?
>
> Anyone can vote, but only some of the votes are binding. If you see a
> vote taking place that you feel you have a stake in / an opinion on, you
> should feel free to vote anyway.
>
> Why? Even if your vote isn't binding, it may be useful to understand how
> folks in the community think about something even if their vote isn't
> binding.
>
> I believe it's PPMC votes that are binding for the vote held within the
> podling, btw. But please don't let that stop you from weighing in if you
> wish to.
>
>
> Best,
>
> jzb
> --
> Joe Brockmeier
> jzb@zonker.net
> Twitter: @jzb
> http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by Joe Brockmeier <jz...@zonker.net>.
On Fri, Feb 15, 2013, at 02:08 PM, Mike Tutkowski wrote:
> Can I ask what may be a silly question about voting? :)
That's not a silly question.
> When these votes are put out there, who can vote? Just committers or
> anyone participating in the community?
Anyone can vote, but only some of the votes are binding. If you see a
vote taking place that you feel you have a stake in / an opinion on, you
should feel free to vote anyway.
Why? Even if your vote isn't binding, it may be useful to understand how
folks in the community think about something even if their vote isn't
binding.
I believe it's PPMC votes that are binding for the vote held within the
podling, btw. But please don't let that stop you from weighing in if you
wish to.
Best,
jzb
--
Joe Brockmeier
jzb@zonker.net
Twitter: @jzb
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Mike Tutkowski
<mi...@solidfire.com> wrote:
> Can I ask what may be a silly question about voting? :)
>
> When these votes are put out there, who can vote? Just committers or
> anyone participating in the community?
>
> Thanks!
>
https://cwiki.apache.org/CLOUDSTACK/apache-cloudstack-project-bylaws.html
Generally speaking - anyone can vote.
On technical matters, only committers votes are binding.
In other matters (releases, adopting new codebases, etc) (P)PMC votes
are binding.
--David
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by Mike Tutkowski <mi...@solidfire.com>.
Can I ask what may be a silly question about voting? :)
When these votes are put out there, who can vote? Just committers or
anyone participating in the community?
Thanks!
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Ahmad Emneina <ae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> Apache cloudstack sounds Excellent!
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Rohit Yadav <bh...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > I agree with all the comments, from my side I think we're more mature
> > now than we were more than half year ago.
> >
> > We've two releases so far, third one to happen next. We've our release
> > timelines figured out. We've pretty active development, so many
> > checkins/day, a tons of emails on ML, comments/discussions/patches/fun
> > on jira, RB, irc. We've so many users posting their feedback, bug
> > reports and whatnot. We've seen an international conference in CCC12,
> > a lot more meetups around the world, blogs, tweets, and even a book in
> > an non-english language; not to mention real world deployments and
> > those awesome IRC chats between sysadmins, users and developers, and
> > companies who are contributing developer resources to the project.
> > We've regular irc meetings, our ppmc can tackle any project issue, we
> > saw licensing issues get resolved for example and they know how to run
> > the project and work with the community. Our committers are doing
> > great job at collaboratively working with each other, reviewing codes,
> > discussing things on ML, irc and whatnot. I think we're learning more
> > and more and we should rely less on our mentors as we're maturing, I
> > say we're ready.
> >
> > +1 cloudstack.apache.org would just look awesome-er :)
> >
> > Regards.
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:54 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> > > On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <runseb@gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Feb 13, 2013, at 4:43 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Chip Childers
> > >>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> > >>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:59:39AM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
> > >>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Chip Childers
> > >>>>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>> Hi all,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I started a conversation within cloudstack-private@i.a.o about
> the
> > >>>>>> prospect of graduation from the incubator, and have received
> > positive
> > >>>>>> reactions from everyone that replied.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I wanted to kick off the discussion here on the public list, to
> see
> > if
> > >>>>>> anyone has any concerns or objections to us starting down the path
> > of
> > >>>>>> trying to graduate?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> My general impression is that we have come a long way as a
> community
> > >>>>>> since CloudStack entered the incubator. While there are still
> rough
> > edges
> > >>>>>> for us to work through over time, we are dealing with our problems
> > quite
> > >>>>>> well as a community. The simple reason that I believe we are in a
> > >>>>>> position to ask to graduate, is that we are no longer getting
> value
> > from
> > >>>>>> the incubation process! That's a good thing, because it means
> that
> > we
> > >>>>>> have managed to learn quite a bit about the ASF processes, rules,
> > >>>>>> methods and preferences.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Thoughts, comments, discussion?
> > >>
> > >> Are you thinking to do this prior to 4.2 release ?
> > >>
> > >> With my individual hat on, I think it might be best to put up a strong
> > 4.2 release and then vote for graduation. It would strengthen our case.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > So I had similar thoughts originally and actually meant 4.2.
> > >
> > > Here is what changed my mind:
> > >
> > > I don't see us actively receiving any benefit from continuing in
> > > incubation. We are far from perfect, but the project seems to be
> > > policing itself. so I am not seeing a huge incentive to staying.
> > >
> > > There are also some downsides to remaining in incubation. First
> > > there's the label 'incubation' that follows almost everything we do,
> > > and is potentially off-putting to potential community members. Second
> > > as a community there are a number of things we can't do for ourselves,
> > > and thus have to ask permission or for help - this includes votes on
> > > releases, creating new user accounts, etc. I think of this as the
> > > overhead of being in the incubator.
> > >
> > > And finally, while this isn't really a big deal from our perspective,
> > > we have 8 mentors, and their continued focus on us means more of their
> > > time they can't focus on other incubating projects. And given our -dev
> > > list volume, I imagine us to be a handful to keep up with.
> > >
> > > --David
> >
>
--
*Mike Tutkowski*
*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
o: 303.746.7302
Advancing the way the world uses the
cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
*™*
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by Ahmad Emneina <ae...@gmail.com>.
+1
Apache cloudstack sounds Excellent!
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Rohit Yadav <bh...@apache.org> wrote:
> I agree with all the comments, from my side I think we're more mature
> now than we were more than half year ago.
>
> We've two releases so far, third one to happen next. We've our release
> timelines figured out. We've pretty active development, so many
> checkins/day, a tons of emails on ML, comments/discussions/patches/fun
> on jira, RB, irc. We've so many users posting their feedback, bug
> reports and whatnot. We've seen an international conference in CCC12,
> a lot more meetups around the world, blogs, tweets, and even a book in
> an non-english language; not to mention real world deployments and
> those awesome IRC chats between sysadmins, users and developers, and
> companies who are contributing developer resources to the project.
> We've regular irc meetings, our ppmc can tackle any project issue, we
> saw licensing issues get resolved for example and they know how to run
> the project and work with the community. Our committers are doing
> great job at collaboratively working with each other, reviewing codes,
> discussing things on ML, irc and whatnot. I think we're learning more
> and more and we should rely less on our mentors as we're maturing, I
> say we're ready.
>
> +1 cloudstack.apache.org would just look awesome-er :)
>
> Regards.
>
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:54 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Feb 13, 2013, at 4:43 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Chip Childers
> >>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:59:39AM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Chip Childers
> >>>>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I started a conversation within cloudstack-private@i.a.o about the
> >>>>>> prospect of graduation from the incubator, and have received
> positive
> >>>>>> reactions from everyone that replied.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I wanted to kick off the discussion here on the public list, to see
> if
> >>>>>> anyone has any concerns or objections to us starting down the path
> of
> >>>>>> trying to graduate?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My general impression is that we have come a long way as a community
> >>>>>> since CloudStack entered the incubator. While there are still rough
> edges
> >>>>>> for us to work through over time, we are dealing with our problems
> quite
> >>>>>> well as a community. The simple reason that I believe we are in a
> >>>>>> position to ask to graduate, is that we are no longer getting value
> from
> >>>>>> the incubation process! That's a good thing, because it means that
> we
> >>>>>> have managed to learn quite a bit about the ASF processes, rules,
> >>>>>> methods and preferences.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thoughts, comments, discussion?
> >>
> >> Are you thinking to do this prior to 4.2 release ?
> >>
> >> With my individual hat on, I think it might be best to put up a strong
> 4.2 release and then vote for graduation. It would strengthen our case.
> >>
> >
> >
> > So I had similar thoughts originally and actually meant 4.2.
> >
> > Here is what changed my mind:
> >
> > I don't see us actively receiving any benefit from continuing in
> > incubation. We are far from perfect, but the project seems to be
> > policing itself. so I am not seeing a huge incentive to staying.
> >
> > There are also some downsides to remaining in incubation. First
> > there's the label 'incubation' that follows almost everything we do,
> > and is potentially off-putting to potential community members. Second
> > as a community there are a number of things we can't do for ourselves,
> > and thus have to ask permission or for help - this includes votes on
> > releases, creating new user accounts, etc. I think of this as the
> > overhead of being in the incubator.
> >
> > And finally, while this isn't really a big deal from our perspective,
> > we have 8 mentors, and their continued focus on us means more of their
> > time they can't focus on other incubating projects. And given our -dev
> > list volume, I imagine us to be a handful to keep up with.
> >
> > --David
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by Rohit Yadav <bh...@apache.org>.
I agree with all the comments, from my side I think we're more mature
now than we were more than half year ago.
We've two releases so far, third one to happen next. We've our release
timelines figured out. We've pretty active development, so many
checkins/day, a tons of emails on ML, comments/discussions/patches/fun
on jira, RB, irc. We've so many users posting their feedback, bug
reports and whatnot. We've seen an international conference in CCC12,
a lot more meetups around the world, blogs, tweets, and even a book in
an non-english language; not to mention real world deployments and
those awesome IRC chats between sysadmins, users and developers, and
companies who are contributing developer resources to the project.
We've regular irc meetings, our ppmc can tackle any project issue, we
saw licensing issues get resolved for example and they know how to run
the project and work with the community. Our committers are doing
great job at collaboratively working with each other, reviewing codes,
discussing things on ML, irc and whatnot. I think we're learning more
and more and we should rely less on our mentors as we're maturing, I
say we're ready.
+1 cloudstack.apache.org would just look awesome-er :)
Regards.
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:54 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2013, at 4:43 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Chip Childers
>>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:59:39AM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Chip Childers
>>>>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I started a conversation within cloudstack-private@i.a.o about the
>>>>>> prospect of graduation from the incubator, and have received positive
>>>>>> reactions from everyone that replied.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wanted to kick off the discussion here on the public list, to see if
>>>>>> anyone has any concerns or objections to us starting down the path of
>>>>>> trying to graduate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My general impression is that we have come a long way as a community
>>>>>> since CloudStack entered the incubator. While there are still rough edges
>>>>>> for us to work through over time, we are dealing with our problems quite
>>>>>> well as a community. The simple reason that I believe we are in a
>>>>>> position to ask to graduate, is that we are no longer getting value from
>>>>>> the incubation process! That's a good thing, because it means that we
>>>>>> have managed to learn quite a bit about the ASF processes, rules,
>>>>>> methods and preferences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thoughts, comments, discussion?
>>
>> Are you thinking to do this prior to 4.2 release ?
>>
>> With my individual hat on, I think it might be best to put up a strong 4.2 release and then vote for graduation. It would strengthen our case.
>>
>
>
> So I had similar thoughts originally and actually meant 4.2.
>
> Here is what changed my mind:
>
> I don't see us actively receiving any benefit from continuing in
> incubation. We are far from perfect, but the project seems to be
> policing itself. so I am not seeing a huge incentive to staying.
>
> There are also some downsides to remaining in incubation. First
> there's the label 'incubation' that follows almost everything we do,
> and is potentially off-putting to potential community members. Second
> as a community there are a number of things we can't do for ourselves,
> and thus have to ask permission or for help - this includes votes on
> releases, creating new user accounts, etc. I think of this as the
> overhead of being in the incubator.
>
> And finally, while this isn't really a big deal from our perspective,
> we have 8 mentors, and their continued focus on us means more of their
> time they can't focus on other incubating projects. And given our -dev
> list volume, I imagine us to be a handful to keep up with.
>
> --David
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Feb 13, 2013, at 4:43 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Chip Childers
>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:59:39AM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Chip Childers
>>>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I started a conversation within cloudstack-private@i.a.o about the
>>>>> prospect of graduation from the incubator, and have received positive
>>>>> reactions from everyone that replied.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wanted to kick off the discussion here on the public list, to see if
>>>>> anyone has any concerns or objections to us starting down the path of
>>>>> trying to graduate?
>>>>>
>>>>> My general impression is that we have come a long way as a community
>>>>> since CloudStack entered the incubator. While there are still rough edges
>>>>> for us to work through over time, we are dealing with our problems quite
>>>>> well as a community. The simple reason that I believe we are in a
>>>>> position to ask to graduate, is that we are no longer getting value from
>>>>> the incubation process! That's a good thing, because it means that we
>>>>> have managed to learn quite a bit about the ASF processes, rules,
>>>>> methods and preferences.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts, comments, discussion?
>
> Are you thinking to do this prior to 4.2 release ?
>
> With my individual hat on, I think it might be best to put up a strong 4.2 release and then vote for graduation. It would strengthen our case.
>
So I had similar thoughts originally and actually meant 4.2.
Here is what changed my mind:
I don't see us actively receiving any benefit from continuing in
incubation. We are far from perfect, but the project seems to be
policing itself. so I am not seeing a huge incentive to staying.
There are also some downsides to remaining in incubation. First
there's the label 'incubation' that follows almost everything we do,
and is potentially off-putting to potential community members. Second
as a community there are a number of things we can't do for ourselves,
and thus have to ask permission or for help - this includes votes on
releases, creating new user accounts, etc. I think of this as the
overhead of being in the incubator.
And finally, while this isn't really a big deal from our perspective,
we have 8 mentors, and their continued focus on us means more of their
time they can't focus on other incubating projects. And given our -dev
list volume, I imagine us to be a handful to keep up with.
--David
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by Joe Brockmeier <jz...@zonker.net>.
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013, at 10:24 AM, Marcus Sorensen wrote:
> My main concerns revolve around those rough edges you mention. There
> still seems to be a lot of confusion around the time-based release. We
> got a lot of "wait, I can't include this" emails, I've seen people
> commit directly to the 4.0 branch post-release rather than the manager
> pulling in (perhaps they got buy-off from the release manager, I don't
> know, but still it raised alarm bells for me to see the logs). There
> was the whole javelin thing. Confusion around voting on the mailing
> lists, etc.
We're not perfect - but that's not the point of incubation, really. At
this point, at least from my POV, we're "policing" ourselves well and
following Apache policies.
If we waited until we had every process sorted out and no confusion...
well, that'd be a very long time. And that's not a bad thing.
> I tend to agree with you Chip, that the incubation process itself may
> not teach us anything further about these things, and they're just
> things we need to iron out over time.
+1
Graduating isn't saying "we're perfect now" just that we've reached a
stage where we can handle issues within the project and/or know when to
reach out for help from other parts of the Apache project - like @legal,
@trademarks, etc.
Best,
jzb
--
Joe Brockmeier
jzb@zonker.net
Twitter: @jzb
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by Marcus Sorensen <sh...@gmail.com>.
I presume Sebastien meant 4.1?
My main concerns revolve around those rough edges you mention. There
still seems to be a lot of confusion around the time-based release. We
got a lot of "wait, I can't include this" emails, I've seen people
commit directly to the 4.0 branch post-release rather than the manager
pulling in (perhaps they got buy-off from the release manager, I don't
know, but still it raised alarm bells for me to see the logs). There
was the whole javelin thing. Confusion around voting on the mailing
lists, etc.
I tend to agree with you Chip, that the incubation process itself may
not teach us anything further about these things, and they're just
things we need to iron out over time.
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Chip Childers
<ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 04:49:55PM +0100, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2013, at 4:43 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>>
>> > On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Chip Childers
>> > <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:59:39AM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
>> >>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Chip Childers
>> >>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>> >>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I started a conversation within cloudstack-private@i.a.o about the
>> >>>> prospect of graduation from the incubator, and have received positive
>> >>>> reactions from everyone that replied.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I wanted to kick off the discussion here on the public list, to see if
>> >>>> anyone has any concerns or objections to us starting down the path of
>> >>>> trying to graduate?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> My general impression is that we have come a long way as a community
>> >>>> since CloudStack entered the incubator. While there are still rough edges
>> >>>> for us to work through over time, we are dealing with our problems quite
>> >>>> well as a community. The simple reason that I believe we are in a
>> >>>> position to ask to graduate, is that we are no longer getting value from
>> >>>> the incubation process! That's a good thing, because it means that we
>> >>>> have managed to learn quite a bit about the ASF processes, rules,
>> >>>> methods and preferences.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thoughts, comments, discussion?
>>
>> Are you thinking to do this prior to 4.2 release ?
>>
>> With my individual hat on, I think it might be best to put up a strong 4.2 release and then vote for graduation. It would strengthen our case.
>
> So I think that we don't have to tie this to a specific release. We've
> proven that we know how to do the mechanics of an ASF release now (with
> 2 under our belts), and anything we would do to get better at our
> community's release processes are purely for our community to be
> concerned with (assuming that we don't regress in any of our obligations
> as an Apache project).
>
> I also don't think that we really have a case to build. As I indicated,
> the discussion on the private list was positive, and that included
> comments from mentors saying that they felt we were ready.
>
> IMO, the decision to ask to graduate should be based on what I believe
> the primary goal of incubation is for a podling (assuming the legal,
> procedural, policy stuff is sorted): Building an "Open and Diverse
> community" [1]. I'd add "the ability to self govern" to that goal. I
> believe that we have achieved this, and, while we will need to
> perpetually work to grow and strengthen the community, we aren't getting
> value from being in the incubator anymore.
>
> Directly answering the question about "prior to 4.2": I don't think they
> are related. If we are ready and it happens before 4.2, then great. If
> not, then that should be because our process to graduate just took that
> long.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -chip
>
> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#community
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
On Feb 13, 2013, at 6:07 PM, Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 05:54:36PM +0100, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2013, at 5:02 PM, Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 04:49:55PM +0100, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 13, 2013, at 4:43 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Chip Childers
>>>>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:59:39AM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Chip Childers
>>>>>>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I started a conversation within cloudstack-private@i.a.o about the
>>>>>>>> prospect of graduation from the incubator, and have received positive
>>>>>>>> reactions from everyone that replied.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wanted to kick off the discussion here on the public list, to see if
>>>>>>>> anyone has any concerns or objections to us starting down the path of
>>>>>>>> trying to graduate?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My general impression is that we have come a long way as a community
>>>>>>>> since CloudStack entered the incubator. While there are still rough edges
>>>>>>>> for us to work through over time, we are dealing with our problems quite
>>>>>>>> well as a community. The simple reason that I believe we are in a
>>>>>>>> position to ask to graduate, is that we are no longer getting value from
>>>>>>>> the incubation process! That's a good thing, because it means that we
>>>>>>>> have managed to learn quite a bit about the ASF processes, rules,
>>>>>>>> methods and preferences.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thoughts, comments, discussion?
>>>>
>>>> Are you thinking to do this prior to 4.2 release ?
>>>>
>>>> With my individual hat on, I think it might be best to put up a strong 4.2 release and then vote for graduation. It would strengthen our case.
>>>
>>
>> I meant 4.1
>>
>>> So I think that we don't have to tie this to a specific release. We've
>>> proven that we know how to do the mechanics of an ASF release now (with
>>> 2 under our belts), and anything we would do to get better at our
>>> community's release processes are purely for our community to be
>>> concerned with (assuming that we don't regress in any of our obligations
>>> as an Apache project).
>>>
>>> I also don't think that we really have a case to build. As I indicated,
>>> the discussion on the private list was positive, and that included
>>> comments from mentors saying that they felt we were ready.
>>>
>>
>> Ok, I did not get that from your first email, so this is good news.
>>
>>> IMO, the decision to ask to graduate should be based on what I believe
>>> the primary goal of incubation is for a podling (assuming the legal,
>>> procedural, policy stuff is sorted): Building an "Open and Diverse
>>> community" [1]. I'd add "the ability to self govern" to that goal. I
>>> believe that we have achieved this, and, while we will need to
>>> perpetually work to grow and strengthen the community, we aren't getting
>>> value from being in the incubator anymore.
>>>
>> IMHO we are fine on the "self-govern", there are still rough edges on the procedures.
>>
>
> If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's that no software
> project is satisfied with it's processes. ;-) They are always going to
> be a little rough, and we'll always be improving them.
>
> My point is that the processes we use, or will use, are an issue for the
> community to deal with. We aren't getting any special value from being
> a podling as we work on improving them.
Ok, I am in agreement :)
>
>>> Directly answering the question about "prior to 4.2": I don't think they
>>> are related. If we are ready and it happens before 4.2, then great. If
>>> not, then that should be because our process to graduate just took that
>>> long.
>>>
>>
>> ok
>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> -chip
>>>
>>> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#community
>>
>>
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com>.
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 05:54:36PM +0100, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
>
> On Feb 13, 2013, at 5:02 PM, Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 04:49:55PM +0100, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
> >>
> >> On Feb 13, 2013, at 4:43 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Chip Childers
> >>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:59:39AM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Chip Childers
> >>>>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I started a conversation within cloudstack-private@i.a.o about the
> >>>>>> prospect of graduation from the incubator, and have received positive
> >>>>>> reactions from everyone that replied.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I wanted to kick off the discussion here on the public list, to see if
> >>>>>> anyone has any concerns or objections to us starting down the path of
> >>>>>> trying to graduate?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My general impression is that we have come a long way as a community
> >>>>>> since CloudStack entered the incubator. While there are still rough edges
> >>>>>> for us to work through over time, we are dealing with our problems quite
> >>>>>> well as a community. The simple reason that I believe we are in a
> >>>>>> position to ask to graduate, is that we are no longer getting value from
> >>>>>> the incubation process! That's a good thing, because it means that we
> >>>>>> have managed to learn quite a bit about the ASF processes, rules,
> >>>>>> methods and preferences.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thoughts, comments, discussion?
> >>
> >> Are you thinking to do this prior to 4.2 release ?
> >>
> >> With my individual hat on, I think it might be best to put up a strong 4.2 release and then vote for graduation. It would strengthen our case.
> >
>
> I meant 4.1
>
> > So I think that we don't have to tie this to a specific release. We've
> > proven that we know how to do the mechanics of an ASF release now (with
> > 2 under our belts), and anything we would do to get better at our
> > community's release processes are purely for our community to be
> > concerned with (assuming that we don't regress in any of our obligations
> > as an Apache project).
> >
> > I also don't think that we really have a case to build. As I indicated,
> > the discussion on the private list was positive, and that included
> > comments from mentors saying that they felt we were ready.
> >
>
> Ok, I did not get that from your first email, so this is good news.
>
> > IMO, the decision to ask to graduate should be based on what I believe
> > the primary goal of incubation is for a podling (assuming the legal,
> > procedural, policy stuff is sorted): Building an "Open and Diverse
> > community" [1]. I'd add "the ability to self govern" to that goal. I
> > believe that we have achieved this, and, while we will need to
> > perpetually work to grow and strengthen the community, we aren't getting
> > value from being in the incubator anymore.
> >
> IMHO we are fine on the "self-govern", there are still rough edges on the procedures.
>
If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's that no software
project is satisfied with it's processes. ;-) They are always going to
be a little rough, and we'll always be improving them.
My point is that the processes we use, or will use, are an issue for the
community to deal with. We aren't getting any special value from being
a podling as we work on improving them.
> > Directly answering the question about "prior to 4.2": I don't think they
> > are related. If we are ready and it happens before 4.2, then great. If
> > not, then that should be because our process to graduate just took that
> > long.
> >
>
> ok
>
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > -chip
> >
> > [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#community
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
On Feb 13, 2013, at 5:02 PM, Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 04:49:55PM +0100, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2013, at 4:43 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Chip Childers
>>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:59:39AM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Chip Childers
>>>>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I started a conversation within cloudstack-private@i.a.o about the
>>>>>> prospect of graduation from the incubator, and have received positive
>>>>>> reactions from everyone that replied.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wanted to kick off the discussion here on the public list, to see if
>>>>>> anyone has any concerns or objections to us starting down the path of
>>>>>> trying to graduate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My general impression is that we have come a long way as a community
>>>>>> since CloudStack entered the incubator. While there are still rough edges
>>>>>> for us to work through over time, we are dealing with our problems quite
>>>>>> well as a community. The simple reason that I believe we are in a
>>>>>> position to ask to graduate, is that we are no longer getting value from
>>>>>> the incubation process! That's a good thing, because it means that we
>>>>>> have managed to learn quite a bit about the ASF processes, rules,
>>>>>> methods and preferences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thoughts, comments, discussion?
>>
>> Are you thinking to do this prior to 4.2 release ?
>>
>> With my individual hat on, I think it might be best to put up a strong 4.2 release and then vote for graduation. It would strengthen our case.
>
I meant 4.1
> So I think that we don't have to tie this to a specific release. We've
> proven that we know how to do the mechanics of an ASF release now (with
> 2 under our belts), and anything we would do to get better at our
> community's release processes are purely for our community to be
> concerned with (assuming that we don't regress in any of our obligations
> as an Apache project).
>
> I also don't think that we really have a case to build. As I indicated,
> the discussion on the private list was positive, and that included
> comments from mentors saying that they felt we were ready.
>
Ok, I did not get that from your first email, so this is good news.
> IMO, the decision to ask to graduate should be based on what I believe
> the primary goal of incubation is for a podling (assuming the legal,
> procedural, policy stuff is sorted): Building an "Open and Diverse
> community" [1]. I'd add "the ability to self govern" to that goal. I
> believe that we have achieved this, and, while we will need to
> perpetually work to grow and strengthen the community, we aren't getting
> value from being in the incubator anymore.
>
IMHO we are fine on the "self-govern", there are still rough edges on the procedures.
> Directly answering the question about "prior to 4.2": I don't think they
> are related. If we are ready and it happens before 4.2, then great. If
> not, then that should be because our process to graduate just took that
> long.
>
ok
> Thoughts?
>
> -chip
>
> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#community
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com>.
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 04:49:55PM +0100, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
>
> On Feb 13, 2013, at 4:43 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Chip Childers
> > <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:59:39AM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
> >>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Chip Childers
> >>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> >>>> Hi all,
> >>>>
> >>>> I started a conversation within cloudstack-private@i.a.o about the
> >>>> prospect of graduation from the incubator, and have received positive
> >>>> reactions from everyone that replied.
> >>>>
> >>>> I wanted to kick off the discussion here on the public list, to see if
> >>>> anyone has any concerns or objections to us starting down the path of
> >>>> trying to graduate?
> >>>>
> >>>> My general impression is that we have come a long way as a community
> >>>> since CloudStack entered the incubator. While there are still rough edges
> >>>> for us to work through over time, we are dealing with our problems quite
> >>>> well as a community. The simple reason that I believe we are in a
> >>>> position to ask to graduate, is that we are no longer getting value from
> >>>> the incubation process! That's a good thing, because it means that we
> >>>> have managed to learn quite a bit about the ASF processes, rules,
> >>>> methods and preferences.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thoughts, comments, discussion?
>
> Are you thinking to do this prior to 4.2 release ?
>
> With my individual hat on, I think it might be best to put up a strong 4.2 release and then vote for graduation. It would strengthen our case.
So I think that we don't have to tie this to a specific release. We've
proven that we know how to do the mechanics of an ASF release now (with
2 under our belts), and anything we would do to get better at our
community's release processes are purely for our community to be
concerned with (assuming that we don't regress in any of our obligations
as an Apache project).
I also don't think that we really have a case to build. As I indicated,
the discussion on the private list was positive, and that included
comments from mentors saying that they felt we were ready.
IMO, the decision to ask to graduate should be based on what I believe
the primary goal of incubation is for a podling (assuming the legal,
procedural, policy stuff is sorted): Building an "Open and Diverse
community" [1]. I'd add "the ability to self govern" to that goal. I
believe that we have achieved this, and, while we will need to
perpetually work to grow and strengthen the community, we aren't getting
value from being in the incubator anymore.
Directly answering the question about "prior to 4.2": I don't think they
are related. If we are ready and it happens before 4.2, then great. If
not, then that should be because our process to graduate just took that
long.
Thoughts?
-chip
[1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#community
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
On Feb 13, 2013, at 4:43 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Chip Childers
> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:59:39AM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Chip Childers
>>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I started a conversation within cloudstack-private@i.a.o about the
>>>> prospect of graduation from the incubator, and have received positive
>>>> reactions from everyone that replied.
>>>>
>>>> I wanted to kick off the discussion here on the public list, to see if
>>>> anyone has any concerns or objections to us starting down the path of
>>>> trying to graduate?
>>>>
>>>> My general impression is that we have come a long way as a community
>>>> since CloudStack entered the incubator. While there are still rough edges
>>>> for us to work through over time, we are dealing with our problems quite
>>>> well as a community. The simple reason that I believe we are in a
>>>> position to ask to graduate, is that we are no longer getting value from
>>>> the incubation process! That's a good thing, because it means that we
>>>> have managed to learn quite a bit about the ASF processes, rules,
>>>> methods and preferences.
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts, comments, discussion?
Are you thinking to do this prior to 4.2 release ?
With my individual hat on, I think it might be best to put up a strong 4.2 release and then vote for graduation. It would strengthen our case.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If the community is in general agreement, we have some work to get done:
>>>>
>>>> We need to go through the podling status file, and ensure that we have
>>>> completed everything that needs to be completed:
>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/cloudstack.html
>>>>
>>>> The CloudStack trademark is currently owned by Citrix. We need to have
>>>> that transfered to ASF prior to graduation. David also suggested in the
>>>> private list that we probably need to execute the formal ASF name
>>>> search, for the purpose of providing the ASF with assurances that there
>>>> are no surprise conflicts.
>>>>
>>>> Once we get the final pre-graduation requirements completed, we need to
>>>> go through the process of attempting to graduate. I suggest that folks
>>>> take a minute to read through the Incubator's Guide to Successful
>>>> Graduation page [1].
>>>>
>>>> The first step of the process seems to be to kick off a formal community
>>>> vote to propose graduation to the IPMC. If we vote to graduate, then we
>>>> have to draft a charter / graduation resolution. This is will be
>>>> proposed to the IPMC for their review, and if passed in an IPMC vote we
>>>> forward it to the ASF board for their vote during a monthly board
>>>> meeting.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So I'd propose that instead of two votes for charter/resolution and
>>> whether or not to vote, that we determine the overall community
>>> feeling/consensus in this thread, and then vote to graduate with a
>>> specific resolution as a single vote.
>>>
>>> --David
>>>
>>
>> Many other podlings seem to have done it that way, and I'm in agreement
>> to that approach.
>>
>> -chip
>
> So after mulling this over a cup of coffee - I still like the idea,
> but have seen the IPMC suggest changes to resolutions when they come
> to that list. I don't want folks to think the resolution voted on is
> immutable without a revote. Perhaps we draft the resolution on a
> consensus basis.
>
> --David
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Chip Childers
<ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:59:39AM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Chip Childers
>> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I started a conversation within cloudstack-private@i.a.o about the
>> > prospect of graduation from the incubator, and have received positive
>> > reactions from everyone that replied.
>> >
>> > I wanted to kick off the discussion here on the public list, to see if
>> > anyone has any concerns or objections to us starting down the path of
>> > trying to graduate?
>> >
>> > My general impression is that we have come a long way as a community
>> > since CloudStack entered the incubator. While there are still rough edges
>> > for us to work through over time, we are dealing with our problems quite
>> > well as a community. The simple reason that I believe we are in a
>> > position to ask to graduate, is that we are no longer getting value from
>> > the incubation process! That's a good thing, because it means that we
>> > have managed to learn quite a bit about the ASF processes, rules,
>> > methods and preferences.
>> >
>> > Thoughts, comments, discussion?
>> >
>> >
>> > If the community is in general agreement, we have some work to get done:
>> >
>> > We need to go through the podling status file, and ensure that we have
>> > completed everything that needs to be completed:
>> > http://incubator.apache.org/projects/cloudstack.html
>> >
>> > The CloudStack trademark is currently owned by Citrix. We need to have
>> > that transfered to ASF prior to graduation. David also suggested in the
>> > private list that we probably need to execute the formal ASF name
>> > search, for the purpose of providing the ASF with assurances that there
>> > are no surprise conflicts.
>> >
>> > Once we get the final pre-graduation requirements completed, we need to
>> > go through the process of attempting to graduate. I suggest that folks
>> > take a minute to read through the Incubator's Guide to Successful
>> > Graduation page [1].
>> >
>> > The first step of the process seems to be to kick off a formal community
>> > vote to propose graduation to the IPMC. If we vote to graduate, then we
>> > have to draft a charter / graduation resolution. This is will be
>> > proposed to the IPMC for their review, and if passed in an IPMC vote we
>> > forward it to the ASF board for their vote during a monthly board
>> > meeting.
>> >
>>
>> So I'd propose that instead of two votes for charter/resolution and
>> whether or not to vote, that we determine the overall community
>> feeling/consensus in this thread, and then vote to graduate with a
>> specific resolution as a single vote.
>>
>> --David
>>
>
> Many other podlings seem to have done it that way, and I'm in agreement
> to that approach.
>
> -chip
So after mulling this over a cup of coffee - I still like the idea,
but have seen the IPMC suggest changes to resolutions when they come
to that list. I don't want folks to think the resolution voted on is
immutable without a revote. Perhaps we draft the resolution on a
consensus basis.
--David
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com>.
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:59:39AM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Chip Childers
> <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I started a conversation within cloudstack-private@i.a.o about the
> > prospect of graduation from the incubator, and have received positive
> > reactions from everyone that replied.
> >
> > I wanted to kick off the discussion here on the public list, to see if
> > anyone has any concerns or objections to us starting down the path of
> > trying to graduate?
> >
> > My general impression is that we have come a long way as a community
> > since CloudStack entered the incubator. While there are still rough edges
> > for us to work through over time, we are dealing with our problems quite
> > well as a community. The simple reason that I believe we are in a
> > position to ask to graduate, is that we are no longer getting value from
> > the incubation process! That's a good thing, because it means that we
> > have managed to learn quite a bit about the ASF processes, rules,
> > methods and preferences.
> >
> > Thoughts, comments, discussion?
> >
> >
> > If the community is in general agreement, we have some work to get done:
> >
> > We need to go through the podling status file, and ensure that we have
> > completed everything that needs to be completed:
> > http://incubator.apache.org/projects/cloudstack.html
> >
> > The CloudStack trademark is currently owned by Citrix. We need to have
> > that transfered to ASF prior to graduation. David also suggested in the
> > private list that we probably need to execute the formal ASF name
> > search, for the purpose of providing the ASF with assurances that there
> > are no surprise conflicts.
> >
> > Once we get the final pre-graduation requirements completed, we need to
> > go through the process of attempting to graduate. I suggest that folks
> > take a minute to read through the Incubator's Guide to Successful
> > Graduation page [1].
> >
> > The first step of the process seems to be to kick off a formal community
> > vote to propose graduation to the IPMC. If we vote to graduate, then we
> > have to draft a charter / graduation resolution. This is will be
> > proposed to the IPMC for their review, and if passed in an IPMC vote we
> > forward it to the ASF board for their vote during a monthly board
> > meeting.
> >
>
> So I'd propose that instead of two votes for charter/resolution and
> whether or not to vote, that we determine the overall community
> feeling/consensus in this thread, and then vote to graduate with a
> specific resolution as a single vote.
>
> --David
>
Many other podlings seem to have done it that way, and I'm in agreement
to that approach.
-chip
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Chip Childers
<ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I started a conversation within cloudstack-private@i.a.o about the
> prospect of graduation from the incubator, and have received positive
> reactions from everyone that replied.
>
> I wanted to kick off the discussion here on the public list, to see if
> anyone has any concerns or objections to us starting down the path of
> trying to graduate?
>
> My general impression is that we have come a long way as a community
> since CloudStack entered the incubator. While there are still rough edges
> for us to work through over time, we are dealing with our problems quite
> well as a community. The simple reason that I believe we are in a
> position to ask to graduate, is that we are no longer getting value from
> the incubation process! That's a good thing, because it means that we
> have managed to learn quite a bit about the ASF processes, rules,
> methods and preferences.
>
> Thoughts, comments, discussion?
>
>
> If the community is in general agreement, we have some work to get done:
>
> We need to go through the podling status file, and ensure that we have
> completed everything that needs to be completed:
> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/cloudstack.html
>
> The CloudStack trademark is currently owned by Citrix. We need to have
> that transfered to ASF prior to graduation. David also suggested in the
> private list that we probably need to execute the formal ASF name
> search, for the purpose of providing the ASF with assurances that there
> are no surprise conflicts.
>
> Once we get the final pre-graduation requirements completed, we need to
> go through the process of attempting to graduate. I suggest that folks
> take a minute to read through the Incubator's Guide to Successful
> Graduation page [1].
>
> The first step of the process seems to be to kick off a formal community
> vote to propose graduation to the IPMC. If we vote to graduate, then we
> have to draft a charter / graduation resolution. This is will be
> proposed to the IPMC for their review, and if passed in an IPMC vote we
> forward it to the ASF board for their vote during a monthly board
> meeting.
>
So I'd propose that instead of two votes for charter/resolution and
whether or not to vote, that we determine the overall community
feeling/consensus in this thread, and then vote to graduate with a
specific resolution as a single vote.
--David