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Posted to fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch> on 2004/07/01 16:13:10 UTC
[VOTE] Project resolution for XML Graphics
Batik and FOP committers,
let's do it. I would like the Batik and FOP committers to vote on the
proposed resolution to create the XML Graphics project comprised of the
two XML subprojects Batik and FOP. I hope everyone knows by now what the
overall plan (See [1]) looks like and what the motivation behind it is.
[1] http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?XMLProjectPages/XMLGraphicsPMCDiscussion
In addition to approving the resolution, we also need to determine the
initial list of PMC members and a chair. PMC membership is open to all
committers. Remember that the PMC is the entity responsible to the
Board for ensuring that the project is in the best interests of the ASF.
This means providing oversight of the code base for any legal issues,
authorizing releases on behalf of the ASF, establishing and maintaining
a charter and a set of rules to ensure a healthy community, and guiding
the long-term direction for the project.
If you are a committer and are interested in serving as a member of the
XML Graphics PMC, please indicate you are interested when casting your
vote. Also, please vote your preference for the initial chair of the
PMC, or indicate if you are interested in volunteering as chair. Note
that the chair does not have any greater decision-making ability than
any other PMC member. The chair is just the person who keeps things
moving and helps get to a consensus. The chair is also the liaison
between the PMC and the Apache Board.
Finally, please vote following the form below
(please reply to general@xml.apache.org only, I'll post the results on
both dev lists afterwards).
PART A
------
[ ] +1 - The attached resolution should be submitted to the
Board for the formation of the XML Graphics project.
[ ] -1 - The attached resolution is not suitable. I have a
recommendation to improve it.
-----------------------------------------------------------
PART B
------
[ ] I volunteer to be a member of the initial XML Graphics
PMC.
-----------------------------------------------------------
PART C
------
[ ] I nominate myself as chair
[ ] I nominate ______________
-----------------------------------------------------------
This vote will close at 23:59 GMT, Tuesday July 6, 2004:
http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?day=6&month=7&year=2004&hour=23&min=59
The proposed resolution:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best interests of
the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to establish
a Project Management Committee charged with the creation and maintenance
of open-source software related to the conversion of XML formats to
graphical output, for distribution at no charge to the public.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management Committee (PMC),
to be known as the "Apache XML Graphics PMC", be and hereby is
established pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache XML Graphics PMC be and hereby is responsible
for the creation and maintenance of software for managing the conversion
of XML formats to graphical output, and for related software components,
based on software licensed to the Foundation; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache XML Graphics" be
and hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the
direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the Apache XML
Graphics PMC, and to have primary responsibility for management of the
projects within the scope of responsibility of the Apache XML Graphics
PMC; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and hereby are
appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache XML Graphics
PMC:
Person1
Person2
Person3
etc....
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Mr. ?????? be and hereby is
appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache XML Graphics, to serve
in accordance with and subject to the direction of the Board of
Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until death, resignation,
retirement, removal or disqualification, or until a successor is
appointed; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the initial Apache XML Graphics PMC be and hereby is
tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to encourage open
development and increased participation in the Apache XML Graphics
Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the initial XML Graphics PMC be and hereby is tasked with
the migration and rationalization of the Batik and FOP Apache XML
subprojects; and be it further
RESOLVED, that all responsibility pertaining to the Batik and FOP
sub-projects and encumbered upon the Apache XML PMC are hereafter
discharged.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremias Maerki
Acknowledgements: Thanks to Cliff Schmidt for his excellent suggestion
about how to get this done. I hope you don't mind my borrowing some of
your text. It fits sooo nicely. :-)
Re: [VOTE] Project resolution for XML Graphics
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>.
My votes...
On 01.07.2004 16:13:10 Jeremias Maerki wrote:
> PART A
> ------
> [X] +1 - The attached resolution should be submitted to the
> Board for the formation of the XML Graphics project.
>
> [ ] -1 - The attached resolution is not suitable. I have a
> recommendation to improve it.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> PART B
> ------
> [X] I volunteer to be a member of the initial XML Graphics
> PMC.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> PART C
> ------
> [ ] I nominate myself as chair
> [X] I nominate Peter B. West as chair
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
Jeremias Maerki
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Re: [VOTE] Project resolution for XML Graphics
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>.
On 02.07.2004 13:31:23 Thomas DeWeese wrote:
> So this vote is dead right?
Yes.
> My understanding is that one '-1' and unless there are
> really exceptional circumstances it doesn't pass.
>
>
>
> I would suggest that we just drop the "controversial"
> clause, with the understanding that it's intent is still
> covered by the fact that the PMC is responsible for the
> "creation and maintenance of software for managing the
> conversion of XML formats to graphical output, and for
> related software components [...]."
+1
> In other words the issue of migrating/rationalizing
> the code base is an excellent topic of discussion, once
> the PMC is formed.
Exactly. That's why the paragraph says: "the [..] PMC be and hereby is
tasked with the migration....". It doesn't really imply what needs to be
done and how much. As I said before, Glen, there are only a few little
things to be done besides the charter: a PMC and general project mailing
list and that's basically it. There are additional things we may do but
we don't have to.
Just for the record: The text of this proposed resolution has been
publicly available for over three months now. I've posted the URL
several times.
> It doesn't have to be (and actually
> probably shouldn't be) part of the charter of the PMC.
I agree.
Ok then, Glen, please restart the vote. I don't feel like doing this
right now.
>
> Glen Mazza wrote:
>
> > --- Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch> wrote:
> >
> >>PART A
> >>------
> >>[ ] +1 - The attached resolution should be submitted
> >>to the
> >> Board for the formation of the XML Graphics
> >>project.
> >>
> >>[X] -1 - The attached resolution is not suitable. I
> >>have a
> >> recommendation to improve it.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Only problem with it, preventing me from voting +1:
> >
> > I would like this clause removed:
> >
> >
> >>RESOLVED, that the initial XML Graphics PMC be and
> >>hereby is tasked with
> >>the migration and rationalization of the Batik and
> >>FOP Apache XML
> >>subprojects; and be it further
> >>
> >
> >
> > We'll discuss (read: argue ;) later what "migration
> > and rationalization", if any, needs to be done based
> > on current workload, current committer needs, etc. I
> > haven't been convinced such changes need to be made at
> > this time, but this issue is independent from the need
> > to create an XML Graphics (which I do support).
<snip/>
Jeremias Maerki
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Re: [VOTE] Project resolution for XML Graphics
Posted by Clay Leeds <cl...@medata.com>.
On Jul 3, 2004, at 4:43 AM, robert burrell donkin wrote:
> On 2 Jul 2004, at 16:18, Clay Leeds wrote:
>> On Jul 1, 2004, at 8:38 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>>> Only problem with it, preventing me from voting +1:
>>> I would like this clause removed:
>>>
>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial XML Graphics PMC be and
>>>> hereby is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
>>>> Batik and
>>>> FOP Apache XML subprojects; and be it further
>>
>> As Peter indicated, however, *migration* seems to be what the whole
>> purpose of this exercise is.
>
> FWIW (as someone who's had experiences with both well and badly
> drafted project charters)
>
> i'd be inclined to remove the clause since it's unlikely to apply for
> more than a short period.
>
> IMHO charters should describe the long term purposes of the project in
> question in broad terms whilst providing only enough detail to allow
> the project to start to functioning so that it can develop it's own
> bylaws. it should be easier to change bylaws than the charter and so
> there are advantages in keeping charters slim.
>
> IMHO the right way to express the necessary short term goal would be
> for the board to charge the new project with the migration and
> rationalization separately from the charter.
>
> - robert
Good point. I will await the new proposal and vote on it. Thanks for
your input!
Web Maestro Clay
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Re: [VOTE] Project resolution for XML Graphics
Posted by robert burrell donkin <rd...@apache.org>.
On 2 Jul 2004, at 16:18, Clay Leeds wrote:
> On Jul 1, 2004, at 8:38 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>> Only problem with it, preventing me from voting +1:
>> I would like this clause removed:
>>
>>> RESOLVED, that the initial XML Graphics PMC be and
>>> hereby is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Batik
>>> and
>>> FOP Apache XML subprojects; and be it further
>
> As Peter indicated, however, *migration* seems to be what the whole
> purpose of this exercise is.
FWIW (as someone who's had experiences with both well and badly drafted
project charters)
i'd be inclined to remove the clause since it's unlikely to apply for
more than a short period.
IMHO charters should describe the long term purposes of the project in
question in broad terms whilst providing only enough detail to allow
the project to start to functioning so that it can develop it's own
bylaws. it should be easier to change bylaws than the charter and so
there are advantages in keeping charters slim.
IMHO the right way to express the necessary short term goal would be
for the board to charge the new project with the migration and
rationalization separately from the charter.
- robert
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Re: [VOTE] Project resolution for XML Graphics
Posted by Clay Leeds <cl...@medata.com>.
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Hash: SHA1
On Jul 2, 2004, at 4:31 AM, Thomas DeWeese wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> So this vote is dead right?
>
> My understanding is that one '-1' and unless there are
> really exceptional circumstances it doesn't pass.
>
> I would suggest that we just drop the "controversial"
> clause, with the understanding that it's intent is still
> covered by the fact that the PMC is responsible for the
> "creation and maintenance of software for managing the
> conversion of XML formats to graphical output, and for
> related software components [...]."
That appears to be what Glen indicated:
On Jul 1, 2004, at 8:38 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
> Only problem with it, preventing me from voting +1:
> I would like this clause removed:
>
>> RESOLVED, that the initial XML Graphics PMC be and
>> hereby is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Batik
>> and
>> FOP Apache XML subprojects; and be it further
As Peter indicated, however, *migration* seems to be what the whole
purpose of this exercise is.
On Jul 2, 2004, at 7:23 AM, Peter B. West wrote:
> Would it be OK then, to just drop the "and rationalization" from the
> resolution?
>
> Peter
+1
And once the process of moving to XML Graphics PMC is complete, the
discussion about how to rationalize (if that is going to happen) can
continue to be discussed and hopefully be resolved.
IMO, one added benefit of migration to XML Graphics PMC, might be that
Batik and FOP committers be more closely linked, and can more quickly
come to agreement on these issues.
Web Maestro Clay
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Re: [VOTE] Project resolution for XML Graphics
Posted by Glen Mazza <gr...@yahoo.com>.
--- "Peter B. West" <pb...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
>
> Glen et al,
>
> My impression was that the phrase "migration and
> rationalization of the
> Batik and FOP Apache XML subprojects" refers to the
> migration from XML
> subprojects to XML Graphics subprojects. If the
> migration does not
> happen, what code will come under the XML Graphics
> umbrella?
I don't think so--no migration is *required* for XML
Graphics to have management over Batik and FOP. As
for the precise projects which will come under the
management of XML Graphics, the resolution is
normative, not ViewCVS URLs.
Both teams' code can sit where they are, same with
their Bugzillas. While it may prove advantageous for
some movement to later occur, this doesn't have to
happen. Batik can be on a CVS box in Brisbane and FOP
on a CVS box in Baltimore, and XML Graphics retain
management of both.
> "Rationalization" may be something that can be
> postponed, but it does
I don't like that term, because that implies that the
code is currently irrational. But there really aren't
many problems with the current setup. Batik is
certainly a very-low-maintenance success. As for FOP,
for the year I've been on it, its class count has
fallen from 905 to 592--thanks to Finn for 90%+ of
that heavy lifting--and yet if anything is more
powerful.
Yes, transcoders may be more of Batik's department and
not FOP's task, but FOP isn't yet solidified enough
for them to take it over yet. And yes, I'm also very
open to making them shared components--so SVG-philiac
FOP developers like Jeremias can always get their paws
on them--but ideally there should be people working on
them (or at least wanting to work on them) first--we
don't need additional moving parts if no one is
looking at the code.
>
> Would it be OK then, to just drop the "and
> rationalization" from the
> resolution?
>
No, let's get rid of this clause and debate all this
after XML Graphics forms. I'll create a new ballot
very soon.
Glen
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Re: [VOTE] Project resolution for XML Graphics
Posted by "Peter B. West" <pb...@tpg.com.au>.
Glen et al,
My impression was that the phrase "migration and rationalization of the
Batik and FOP Apache XML subprojects" refers to the migration from XML
subprojects to XML Graphics subprojects. If the migration does not
happen, what code will come under the XML Graphics umbrella?
"Rationalization" may be something that can be postponed, but it does
not seem to me that "migration" can be, if the XML Graphics project is
to have any kind of reality. Perhaps we should find out from
infrastructure@ exactly what is involved in a minimal "migration". For
example, at the moment, the repository for FOP is xml-fop. It may be
perfectly feasible to leave this intact, and make a few changes to the
web pages indicating that the xml-fop repository now belongs to the FOP
subproject of XML Graphics, and presto! migration complete, and the
initial requirements of that resolution of the proposal are fulfilled.
Would it be OK then, to just drop the "and rationalization" from the
resolution?
Peter
Glen Mazza wrote:
> Yes, some code movement may very well be indicated,
> and I'm not ruling anything out. It's just that the
> charter should not be *mandating* such movement. We
> should take up this issue later on a class-by-class,
> package-by-package basis.
>
> Glen
>
> --- Thomas DeWeese <Th...@Kodak.com> wrote:
>
>> In other words the issue of
>>migrating/rationalizing
>>the code base is an excellent topic of discussion,
>>once
>>the PMC is formed. It doesn't have to be (and
>>actually
>>probably shouldn't be) part of the charter of the
>>PMC.
>>
--
Peter B. West <http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/resume.html>
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Re: [VOTE] Project resolution for XML Graphics
Posted by Glen Mazza <gr...@yahoo.com>.
Yes, some code movement may very well be indicated,
and I'm not ruling anything out. It's just that the
charter should not be *mandating* such movement. We
should take up this issue later on a class-by-class,
package-by-package basis.
Glen
--- Thomas DeWeese <Th...@Kodak.com> wrote:
> In other words the issue of
> migrating/rationalizing
> the code base is an excellent topic of discussion,
> once
> the PMC is formed. It doesn't have to be (and
> actually
> probably shouldn't be) part of the charter of the
> PMC.
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Project resolution for XML Graphics
Posted by Thomas DeWeese <Th...@Kodak.com>.
Hi all,
So this vote is dead right?
My understanding is that one '-1' and unless there are
really exceptional circumstances it doesn't pass.
I would suggest that we just drop the "controversial"
clause, with the understanding that it's intent is still
covered by the fact that the PMC is responsible for the
"creation and maintenance of software for managing the
conversion of XML formats to graphical output, and for
related software components [...]."
In other words the issue of migrating/rationalizing
the code base is an excellent topic of discussion, once
the PMC is formed. It doesn't have to be (and actually
probably shouldn't be) part of the charter of the PMC.
Glen Mazza wrote:
> --- Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch> wrote:
>
>>PART A
>>------
>>[ ] +1 - The attached resolution should be submitted
>>to the
>> Board for the formation of the XML Graphics
>>project.
>>
>>[X] -1 - The attached resolution is not suitable. I
>>have a
>> recommendation to improve it.
>>
>
>
> Only problem with it, preventing me from voting +1:
>
> I would like this clause removed:
>
>
>>RESOLVED, that the initial XML Graphics PMC be and
>>hereby is tasked with
>>the migration and rationalization of the Batik and
>>FOP Apache XML
>>subprojects; and be it further
>>
>
>
> We'll discuss (read: argue ;) later what "migration
> and rationalization", if any, needs to be done based
> on current workload, current committer needs, etc. I
> haven't been convinced such changes need to be made at
> this time, but this issue is independent from the need
> to create an XML Graphics (which I do support).
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
>>PART B
>>------
>>[X] I volunteer to be a member of the initial
>>XML Graphics PMC.
>>
>
>
> And encourage those who have been active recently to
> join as well.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
>>PART C
>>------
>>[ ] I nominate myself as chair
>>[X] I nominate Peter B. West
>>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Glen Mazza
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Project resolution for XML Graphics
Posted by Glen Mazza <gr...@yahoo.com>.
--- Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch> wrote:
>
> PART A
> ------
> [ ] +1 - The attached resolution should be submitted
> to the
> Board for the formation of the XML Graphics
> project.
>
> [X] -1 - The attached resolution is not suitable. I
> have a
> recommendation to improve it.
>
Only problem with it, preventing me from voting +1:
I would like this clause removed:
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial XML Graphics PMC be and
> hereby is tasked with
> the migration and rationalization of the Batik and
> FOP Apache XML
> subprojects; and be it further
>
We'll discuss (read: argue ;) later what "migration
and rationalization", if any, needs to be done based
on current workload, current committer needs, etc. I
haven't been convinced such changes need to be made at
this time, but this issue is independent from the need
to create an XML Graphics (which I do support).
>
-----------------------------------------------------------
> PART B
> ------
> [X] I volunteer to be a member of the initial
> XML Graphics PMC.
>
And encourage those who have been active recently to
join as well.
>
-----------------------------------------------------------
> PART C
> ------
> [ ] I nominate myself as chair
> [X] I nominate Peter B. West
>
-----------------------------------------------------------
Glen Mazza
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