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Posted to dev@royale.apache.org by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.INVALID> on 2019/06/05 16:07:30 UTC
Embedded Assets (was Re: AIR and Royale)
Regarding embedded assets in Royale:
There is no embedded asset support at this time because it is not obvious to me it will be worth it. We need a volunteer to devise a strategy that works and implement it.
In Flex/Flash, my understanding is that folks embedded assets to save on server requests for assets like images. That makes sense because, since a SWF is a compressed binary and most assets are compressed binaries, you can essentially append the assets to the SWF.
However, for Royale in the browser, every implementation of "embedding" I've seen seems to Base64 encode the asset, converting it to text and increasing the number of bytes. And the resulting Base64 bytes may deteriorate the gzip compression of the .html file.
Flash also had frames in the SWF and assets could be embedded on later frames allowing a download progress bar to show up before all of the rest of the SWF is downloaded. I don't know what the equivalent for that is without Flash.
I believe another advantage of embedding in Flash was that the asset was ready to be instantiated and placed on the display list right away. I'm not clear that an embedded Base64 image can be used in an <img> tag and prevent "popping" given that Royale generates the <img> tags dynamically.
So, we need a volunteer to create some examples of how to use browser embedding in dynamically generated <img> tags so we can see if there will be any benefit or not. And if not, possibly explore other options, such as delivering all assets in one true binary blob somehow.
HTH,
-Alex
On 6/5/19, 7:05 AM, "Frost, Andrew" <An...@Harman.com> wrote:
Yes, me :-)
I'm pushing Royale internally, I think it has a lot of promise - although I still do find it a little frustrating at times internally! In terms of what support you can give, the sorts of things you're already doing are great, but yes it might mean we lean a little more on this mailing list if we're facing tricky issues.
We have one sales case in particular at the moment which has the potential to be very big, we're hoping they move forwards with a proof of concept project which would take a small part of their app and port this to Royale. A few issues we've found so far from investigations:
- their flex code is embedding icons that are contained within a SWF. Royale compiler didn't seem to like this, not sure whether it's just syntax or whether we need to pull all the assets out (not a big job, we can automate that..)
- they have binding using functions e.g. text="{localizationHelper.getString('fieldName')}", which caused an issue when generating the JavaScript code as the string-within-a-string seemed to upset the parser. We can look at this later perhaps though..
- when we got it compiling, the main thing was with responsiveness i.e. trying to get the app to resize and for all the internal elements to then resize. We may use the MX emulation classes for this but it still looked like more support is needed - although we only looked briefly at this.
Once those issues are sorted though, we would have one big task (to recreate a very advanced data grid control that they'd developed in Flex/Flash) and a lot of the rest - around the AS3 logic - should fall into place! I'm hoping we can convince them to go with this solution..
thanks
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: Harbs [mailto:harbs.lists@gmail.com]
Sent: 04 June 2019 14:41
To: dev@royale.apache.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: AIR and Royale
Well to start with: Does anyone know anyone working for them?
I’d like to hear from them what it would take for them to push Royale more.
> On Jun 4, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> what's the kind of support you're thinking ?
>
>
>
> El mar., 4 jun. 2019 a las 9:36, Piotr Zarzycki
> (<pi...@gmail.com>)
> escribió:
>
>> Hi Harbs,
>>
>> I was exactly think the same about that, so I'm keeping finger
>> crossed to that effort.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Piotr
>>
>> wt., 4 cze 2019 o 09:34 Harbs <ha...@gmail.com> napisał(a):
>>
>>> I just heard about this announcement.[1]
>>>
>>> I went over to the Harman site and was reading this page.[2]
>>>
>>> I was particularly struck by this statement:
>>>
>>> HARMAN’s offerings also include consultancy, support and migration
>>> services for companies looking to move their applications away from
>>> Flash technologies over to HTML5 via solutions such as Angular,
>>> Apache Royale
>> and
>>> other JavaScript based frameworks.
>>>
>>>
>>> Considering that they mention Royale explicitly as the number 2
>> framework,
>>> I’m guessing they will be pushing Royale to a certain degree. We
>>> should probably look to support that effort.
>>>
>>> [1]https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3L9wbF4uCYccj7EQCUBeXbp7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171832330&sdata=XSKi6AAdovaj5CSqDxp4JKUXM%2Fu5uTzKYfJhrsWjO4s%3D&reserved=0
>>> %3A%2F%2Ftheblog.adobe.com%2Fthe-future-of-adobe-air%2F <
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3L9wbF4uCYccj7EQCUBeXbp7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=7Cp77z%2FW16Gf%2B9Q8P0%2Fs7qOBZdGYOh71F0bX%2BYLwXp8%3D&reserved=0
>>> %2F%2Ftheblog.adobe.com%2Fthe-future-of-adobe-air%2F>
>>> [2]https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F36DC33RH3RXctPTGAK4XztY7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=WmyyWadQQ1saSrBkTeuYmPiM0vDW49J3Lob%2BC7eejfg%3D&reserved=0
>>> %3A%2F%2Fservices.harman.com%2Fpartners%2Fadobe <
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F36DC33RH3RXctPTGAK4XztY7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=JGO%2Fg99Iey8nKvQN5Hzd2EmXkle35QSllbc5UyDaj%2FE%3D&reserved=0
>>> %2F%2Fservices.harman.com%2Fpartners%2Fadobe>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Piotr Zarzycki
>>
>> Patreon:
>> *https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F32dvoAS1WTaQP1E2yQmx5pn7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=%2FDiwRHFQCxdxO7pjeV85svwoRoI8nZmWpWBKDNgzr3w%3D&reserved=0
>> %2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki
>> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F32dvoAS1WTaQP1E2yQmx5pn7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=%2FDiwRHFQCxdxO7pjeV85svwoRoI8nZmWpWBKDNgzr3w%3D&reserved=0
>> %2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki>*
>>
>
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3Peb7VMJWFagYLtTD2HSBGD7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=PE5%2FahFsZHO5iuUE9pbP3jnax2KYXkxJBvBS%2Bfxb22Y%3D&reserved=0
> %2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira
Re: Embedded Assets (was Re: AIR and Royale)
Posted by Harbs <ha...@gmail.com>.
I don’t know how they do it, but it seems pretty straight-forward:
1. The compiler reads the binary file.
2. It Base64 encodes the content. https://www.baeldung.com/java-base64-encode-and-decode <https://www.baeldung.com/java-base64-encode-and-decode>
3. It writes the src or background using the Base64 string. That could be either in CSS or in code.
Details on data uris here: https://css-tricks.com/data-uris/ <https://css-tricks.com/data-uris/>
Harbs
> On Jun 7, 2019, at 12:12 AM, Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> ok Om thanks for sharing.
> Do you have some url with some code to see an example of how they do it?
> thanks
>
> El jue., 6 jun. 2019 a las 19:05, OmPrakash Muppirala (<bi...@gmail.com>)
> escribió:
>
>> In recent applications using React/Webpack, I have seen defaults of using
>> base64 embedding of files less than 10k in size.
>>
>> I guess the tradeoff is in between firing off several http requests for
>> small files vs embedding them is a less efficient format.
>>
>> I think a similar strategy would work for Royale.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Om
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019, 3:32 AM Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I think in the case of HTML, does not have sense to me the concept of
>> Embed
>>> like in Flex. Maybe of SWF target or others (don't know if WebAsm could
>>> benefit from something like this)
>>> Maybe for HTML use something like Embed metadata, could just copy the
>>> assets to the resources folder to be available, since like Alex said, a
>>> request per asset is needed and making other kind of big file seems
>> strange
>>> in this case (maybe not). Although we have solved the copying of assets
>> in
>>> different ways through compiler for libraries and ANT/MAVEN automation in
>>> Application.
>>>
>>> for me this could be something to investigate in the future, but with low
>>> priority, since I think we still have bigger fish to fry
>>>
>>> just my 2...
>>>
>>>
>>> El mié., 5 jun. 2019 a las 18:07, Alex Harui (<aharui@adobe.com.invalid
>>> )
>>> escribió:
>>>
>>>> Regarding embedded assets in Royale:
>>>>
>>>> There is no embedded asset support at this time because it is not
>> obvious
>>>> to me it will be worth it. We need a volunteer to devise a strategy
>> that
>>>> works and implement it.
>>>>
>>>> In Flex/Flash, my understanding is that folks embedded assets to save
>> on
>>>> server requests for assets like images. That makes sense because,
>> since
>>> a
>>>> SWF is a compressed binary and most assets are compressed binaries, you
>>> can
>>>> essentially append the assets to the SWF.
>>>>
>>>> However, for Royale in the browser, every implementation of "embedding"
>>>> I've seen seems to Base64 encode the asset, converting it to text and
>>>> increasing the number of bytes. And the resulting Base64 bytes may
>>>> deteriorate the gzip compression of the .html file.
>>>>
>>>> Flash also had frames in the SWF and assets could be embedded on later
>>>> frames allowing a download progress bar to show up before all of the
>> rest
>>>> of the SWF is downloaded. I don't know what the equivalent for that is
>>>> without Flash.
>>>>
>>>> I believe another advantage of embedding in Flash was that the asset
>> was
>>>> ready to be instantiated and placed on the display list right away.
>> I'm
>>>> not clear that an embedded Base64 image can be used in an <img> tag and
>>>> prevent "popping" given that Royale generates the <img> tags
>> dynamically.
>>>>
>>>> So, we need a volunteer to create some examples of how to use browser
>>>> embedding in dynamically generated <img> tags so we can see if there
>> will
>>>> be any benefit or not. And if not, possibly explore other options,
>> such
>>> as
>>>> delivering all assets in one true binary blob somehow.
>>>>
>>>> HTH,
>>>> -Alex
>>>>
>>>> On 6/5/19, 7:05 AM, "Frost, Andrew" <An...@Harman.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes, me :-)
>>>>
>>>> I'm pushing Royale internally, I think it has a lot of promise -
>>>> although I still do find it a little frustrating at times internally!
>> In
>>>> terms of what support you can give, the sorts of things you're already
>>>> doing are great, but yes it might mean we lean a little more on this
>>>> mailing list if we're facing tricky issues.
>>>>
>>>> We have one sales case in particular at the moment which has the
>>>> potential to be very big, we're hoping they move forwards with a proof
>> of
>>>> concept project which would take a small part of their app and port
>> this
>>> to
>>>> Royale. A few issues we've found so far from investigations:
>>>> - their flex code is embedding icons that are contained within a
>> SWF.
>>>> Royale compiler didn't seem to like this, not sure whether it's just
>>> syntax
>>>> or whether we need to pull all the assets out (not a big job, we can
>>>> automate that..)
>>>> - they have binding using functions e.g.
>>>> text="{localizationHelper.getString('fieldName')}", which caused an
>> issue
>>>> when generating the JavaScript code as the string-within-a-string
>> seemed
>>> to
>>>> upset the parser. We can look at this later perhaps though..
>>>> - when we got it compiling, the main thing was with responsiveness
>>>> i.e. trying to get the app to resize and for all the internal elements
>> to
>>>> then resize. We may use the MX emulation classes for this but it still
>>>> looked like more support is needed - although we only looked briefly at
>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>> Once those issues are sorted though, we would have one big task (to
>>>> recreate a very advanced data grid control that they'd developed in
>>>> Flex/Flash) and a lot of the rest - around the AS3 logic - should fall
>>> into
>>>> place! I'm hoping we can convince them to go with this solution..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Harbs [mailto:harbs.lists@gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: 04 June 2019 14:41
>>>> To: dev@royale.apache.org
>>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: AIR and Royale
>>>>
>>>> Well to start with: Does anyone know anyone working for them?
>>>>
>>>> I’d like to hear from them what it would take for them to push
>> Royale
>>>> more.
>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 4, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Carlos Rovira <
>> carlosrovira@apache.org
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> what's the kind of support you're thinking ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> El mar., 4 jun. 2019 a las 9:36, Piotr Zarzycki
>>>>> (<pi...@gmail.com>)
>>>>> escribió:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Harbs,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was exactly think the same about that, so I'm keeping finger
>>>>>> crossed to that effort.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Piotr
>>>>>>
>>>>>> wt., 4 cze 2019 o 09:34 Harbs <ha...@gmail.com>
>> napisał(a):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just heard about this announcement.[1]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I went over to the Harman site and was reading this page.[2]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was particularly struck by this statement:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HARMAN’s offerings also include consultancy, support and
>>> migration
>>>>>>> services for companies looking to move their applications away
>>>> from
>>>>>>> Flash technologies over to HTML5 via solutions such as Angular,
>>>>>>> Apache Royale
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> other JavaScript based frameworks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Considering that they mention Royale explicitly as the number 2
>>>>>> framework,
>>>>>>> I’m guessing they will be pushing Royale to a certain degree.
>> We
>>>>>>> should probably look to support that effort.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3L9wbF4uCYccj7EQCUBeXbp7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171832330&sdata=XSKi6AAdovaj5CSqDxp4JKUXM%2Fu5uTzKYfJhrsWjO4s%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>> %3A%2F%2Ftheblog.adobe.com%2Fthe-future-of-adobe-air%2F <
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3L9wbF4uCYccj7EQCUBeXbp7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=7Cp77z%2FW16Gf%2B9Q8P0%2Fs7qOBZdGYOh71F0bX%2BYLwXp8%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>> %2F%2Ftheblog.adobe.com%2Fthe-future-of-adobe-air%2F>
>>>>>>> [2]
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F36DC33RH3RXctPTGAK4XztY7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=WmyyWadQQ1saSrBkTeuYmPiM0vDW49J3Lob%2BC7eejfg%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>> %3A%2F%2Fservices.harman.com%2Fpartners%2Fadobe <
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F36DC33RH3RXctPTGAK4XztY7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=JGO%2Fg99Iey8nKvQN5Hzd2EmXkle35QSllbc5UyDaj%2FE%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>> %2F%2Fservices.harman.com%2Fpartners%2Fadobe>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Piotr Zarzycki
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Patreon:
>>>>>> *
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F32dvoAS1WTaQP1E2yQmx5pn7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=%2FDiwRHFQCxdxO7pjeV85svwoRoI8nZmWpWBKDNgzr3w%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> %2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki
>>>>>> <
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F32dvoAS1WTaQP1E2yQmx5pn7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=%2FDiwRHFQCxdxO7pjeV85svwoRoI8nZmWpWBKDNgzr3w%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> %2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki>*
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Carlos Rovira
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3Peb7VMJWFagYLtTD2HSBGD7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=PE5%2FahFsZHO5iuUE9pbP3jnax2KYXkxJBvBS%2Bfxb22Y%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> %2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Carlos Rovira
>>> http://about.me/carlosrovira
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> http://about.me/carlosrovira
Re: Embedded Assets (was Re: AIR and Royale)
Posted by QA <fl...@gmail.com>.
>I guess the tradeoff is in between firing off several http requests
for small files vs embedding them is a less efficient format.
That was one advantage that a SWF had over traditional HTML page. One
request instead of many. I looked at using link rel=preload but that is
has low priority and is not supported in Firefox.
You can send a single resources zip down the line and unzip it with JS.
If there is a SWF parser you could send that and then on page load add
the resources to the page (get rid of the first flash).
A few places online also suggest using a stylesheet with background-url
set to image resources and then the div display set to none. With base64
data you could have one large resources css and then when that loads
cache them.
On 6/6/19 5:12 PM, Carlos Rovira wrote:
> ok Om thanks for sharing.
> Do you have some url with some code to see an example of how they do it?
> thanks
>
> El jue., 6 jun. 2019 a las 19:05, OmPrakash Muppirala (<bi...@gmail.com>)
> escribió:
>
>> In recent applications using React/Webpack, I have seen defaults of using
>> base64 embedding of files less than 10k in size.
>>
>> I guess the tradeoff is in between firing off several http requests for
>> small files vs embedding them is a less efficient format.
>>
>> I think a similar strategy would work for Royale.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Om
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019, 3:32 AM Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I think in the case of HTML, does not have sense to me the concept of
>> Embed
>>> like in Flex. Maybe of SWF target or others (don't know if WebAsm could
>>> benefit from something like this)
>>> Maybe for HTML use something like Embed metadata, could just copy the
>>> assets to the resources folder to be available, since like Alex said, a
>>> request per asset is needed and making other kind of big file seems
>> strange
>>> in this case (maybe not). Although we have solved the copying of assets
>> in
>>> different ways through compiler for libraries and ANT/MAVEN automation in
>>> Application.
>>>
>>> for me this could be something to investigate in the future, but with low
>>> priority, since I think we still have bigger fish to fry
>>>
>>> just my 2...
>>>
>>>
>>> El mié., 5 jun. 2019 a las 18:07, Alex Harui (<aharui@adobe.com.invalid
>>> )
>>> escribió:
>>>
>>>> Regarding embedded assets in Royale:
>>>>
>>>> There is no embedded asset support at this time because it is not
>> obvious
>>>> to me it will be worth it. We need a volunteer to devise a strategy
>> that
>>>> works and implement it.
>>>>
>>>> In Flex/Flash, my understanding is that folks embedded assets to save
>> on
>>>> server requests for assets like images. That makes sense because,
>> since
>>> a
>>>> SWF is a compressed binary and most assets are compressed binaries, you
>>> can
>>>> essentially append the assets to the SWF.
>>>>
>>>> However, for Royale in the browser, every implementation of "embedding"
>>>> I've seen seems to Base64 encode the asset, converting it to text and
>>>> increasing the number of bytes. And the resulting Base64 bytes may
>>>> deteriorate the gzip compression of the .html file.
>>>>
>>>> Flash also had frames in the SWF and assets could be embedded on later
>>>> frames allowing a download progress bar to show up before all of the
>> rest
>>>> of the SWF is downloaded. I don't know what the equivalent for that is
>>>> without Flash.
>>>>
>>>> I believe another advantage of embedding in Flash was that the asset
>> was
>>>> ready to be instantiated and placed on the display list right away.
>> I'm
>>>> not clear that an embedded Base64 image can be used in an <img> tag and
>>>> prevent "popping" given that Royale generates the <img> tags
>> dynamically.
>>>> So, we need a volunteer to create some examples of how to use browser
>>>> embedding in dynamically generated <img> tags so we can see if there
>> will
>>>> be any benefit or not. And if not, possibly explore other options,
>> such
>>> as
>>>> delivering all assets in one true binary blob somehow.
>>>>
>>>> HTH,
>>>> -Alex
>>>>
>>>> On 6/5/19, 7:05 AM, "Frost, Andrew" <An...@Harman.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes, me :-)
>>>>
>>>> I'm pushing Royale internally, I think it has a lot of promise -
>>>> although I still do find it a little frustrating at times internally!
>> In
>>>> terms of what support you can give, the sorts of things you're already
>>>> doing are great, but yes it might mean we lean a little more on this
>>>> mailing list if we're facing tricky issues.
>>>>
>>>> We have one sales case in particular at the moment which has the
>>>> potential to be very big, we're hoping they move forwards with a proof
>> of
>>>> concept project which would take a small part of their app and port
>> this
>>> to
>>>> Royale. A few issues we've found so far from investigations:
>>>> - their flex code is embedding icons that are contained within a
>> SWF.
>>>> Royale compiler didn't seem to like this, not sure whether it's just
>>> syntax
>>>> or whether we need to pull all the assets out (not a big job, we can
>>>> automate that..)
>>>> - they have binding using functions e.g.
>>>> text="{localizationHelper.getString('fieldName')}", which caused an
>> issue
>>>> when generating the JavaScript code as the string-within-a-string
>> seemed
>>> to
>>>> upset the parser. We can look at this later perhaps though..
>>>> - when we got it compiling, the main thing was with responsiveness
>>>> i.e. trying to get the app to resize and for all the internal elements
>> to
>>>> then resize. We may use the MX emulation classes for this but it still
>>>> looked like more support is needed - although we only looked briefly at
>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>> Once those issues are sorted though, we would have one big task (to
>>>> recreate a very advanced data grid control that they'd developed in
>>>> Flex/Flash) and a lot of the rest - around the AS3 logic - should fall
>>> into
>>>> place! I'm hoping we can convince them to go with this solution..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Harbs [mailto:harbs.lists@gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: 04 June 2019 14:41
>>>> To: dev@royale.apache.org
>>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: AIR and Royale
>>>>
>>>> Well to start with: Does anyone know anyone working for them?
>>>>
>>>> I’d like to hear from them what it would take for them to push
>> Royale
>>>> more.
>>>>
>>>> > On Jun 4, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Carlos Rovira <
>> carlosrovira@apache.org
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Hi,
>>>> >
>>>> > what's the kind of support you're thinking ?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > El mar., 4 jun. 2019 a las 9:36, Piotr Zarzycki
>>>> > (<pi...@gmail.com>)
>>>> > escribió:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Hi Harbs,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I was exactly think the same about that, so I'm keeping finger
>>>> >> crossed to that effort.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks,
>>>> >> Piotr
>>>> >>
>>>> >> wt., 4 cze 2019 o 09:34 Harbs <ha...@gmail.com>
>> napisał(a):
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> I just heard about this announcement.[1]
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I went over to the Harman site and was reading this page.[2]
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I was particularly struck by this statement:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> HARMAN’s offerings also include consultancy, support and
>>> migration
>>>> >>> services for companies looking to move their applications away
>>>> from
>>>> >>> Flash technologies over to HTML5 via solutions such as Angular,
>>>> >>> Apache Royale
>>>> >> and
>>>> >>> other JavaScript based frameworks.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Considering that they mention Royale explicitly as the number 2
>>>> >> framework,
>>>> >>> I’m guessing they will be pushing Royale to a certain degree.
>> We
>>>> >>> should probably look to support that effort.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> [1]
>>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3L9wbF4uCYccj7EQCUBeXbp7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171832330&sdata=XSKi6AAdovaj5CSqDxp4JKUXM%2Fu5uTzKYfJhrsWjO4s%3D&reserved=0
>>>> >>> %3A%2F%2Ftheblog.adobe.com%2Fthe-future-of-adobe-air%2F <
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3L9wbF4uCYccj7EQCUBeXbp7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=7Cp77z%2FW16Gf%2B9Q8P0%2Fs7qOBZdGYOh71F0bX%2BYLwXp8%3D&reserved=0
>>>> >>> %2F%2Ftheblog.adobe.com%2Fthe-future-of-adobe-air%2F>
>>>> >>> [2]
>>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F36DC33RH3RXctPTGAK4XztY7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=WmyyWadQQ1saSrBkTeuYmPiM0vDW49J3Lob%2BC7eejfg%3D&reserved=0
>>>> >>> %3A%2F%2Fservices.harman.com%2Fpartners%2Fadobe <
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F36DC33RH3RXctPTGAK4XztY7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=JGO%2Fg99Iey8nKvQN5Hzd2EmXkle35QSllbc5UyDaj%2FE%3D&reserved=0
>>>> >>> %2F%2Fservices.harman.com%2Fpartners%2Fadobe>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Piotr Zarzycki
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Patreon:
>>>> >> *
>>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F32dvoAS1WTaQP1E2yQmx5pn7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=%2FDiwRHFQCxdxO7pjeV85svwoRoI8nZmWpWBKDNgzr3w%3D&reserved=0
>>>> >> %2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki
>>>> >> <
>>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F32dvoAS1WTaQP1E2yQmx5pn7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=%2FDiwRHFQCxdxO7pjeV85svwoRoI8nZmWpWBKDNgzr3w%3D&reserved=0
>>>> >> %2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki>*
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Carlos Rovira
>>>> >
>>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3Peb7VMJWFagYLtTD2HSBGD7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=PE5%2FahFsZHO5iuUE9pbP3jnax2KYXkxJBvBS%2Bfxb22Y%3D&reserved=0
>>>> > %2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Carlos Rovira
>>> http://about.me/carlosrovira
>>>
>
Re: Embedded Assets (was Re: AIR and Royale)
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>.
ok Om thanks for sharing.
Do you have some url with some code to see an example of how they do it?
thanks
El jue., 6 jun. 2019 a las 19:05, OmPrakash Muppirala (<bi...@gmail.com>)
escribió:
> In recent applications using React/Webpack, I have seen defaults of using
> base64 embedding of files less than 10k in size.
>
> I guess the tradeoff is in between firing off several http requests for
> small files vs embedding them is a less efficient format.
>
> I think a similar strategy would work for Royale.
>
> Thanks,
> Om
>
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019, 3:32 AM Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I think in the case of HTML, does not have sense to me the concept of
> Embed
> > like in Flex. Maybe of SWF target or others (don't know if WebAsm could
> > benefit from something like this)
> > Maybe for HTML use something like Embed metadata, could just copy the
> > assets to the resources folder to be available, since like Alex said, a
> > request per asset is needed and making other kind of big file seems
> strange
> > in this case (maybe not). Although we have solved the copying of assets
> in
> > different ways through compiler for libraries and ANT/MAVEN automation in
> > Application.
> >
> > for me this could be something to investigate in the future, but with low
> > priority, since I think we still have bigger fish to fry
> >
> > just my 2...
> >
> >
> > El mié., 5 jun. 2019 a las 18:07, Alex Harui (<aharui@adobe.com.invalid
> >)
> > escribió:
> >
> > > Regarding embedded assets in Royale:
> > >
> > > There is no embedded asset support at this time because it is not
> obvious
> > > to me it will be worth it. We need a volunteer to devise a strategy
> that
> > > works and implement it.
> > >
> > > In Flex/Flash, my understanding is that folks embedded assets to save
> on
> > > server requests for assets like images. That makes sense because,
> since
> > a
> > > SWF is a compressed binary and most assets are compressed binaries, you
> > can
> > > essentially append the assets to the SWF.
> > >
> > > However, for Royale in the browser, every implementation of "embedding"
> > > I've seen seems to Base64 encode the asset, converting it to text and
> > > increasing the number of bytes. And the resulting Base64 bytes may
> > > deteriorate the gzip compression of the .html file.
> > >
> > > Flash also had frames in the SWF and assets could be embedded on later
> > > frames allowing a download progress bar to show up before all of the
> rest
> > > of the SWF is downloaded. I don't know what the equivalent for that is
> > > without Flash.
> > >
> > > I believe another advantage of embedding in Flash was that the asset
> was
> > > ready to be instantiated and placed on the display list right away.
> I'm
> > > not clear that an embedded Base64 image can be used in an <img> tag and
> > > prevent "popping" given that Royale generates the <img> tags
> dynamically.
> > >
> > > So, we need a volunteer to create some examples of how to use browser
> > > embedding in dynamically generated <img> tags so we can see if there
> will
> > > be any benefit or not. And if not, possibly explore other options,
> such
> > as
> > > delivering all assets in one true binary blob somehow.
> > >
> > > HTH,
> > > -Alex
> > >
> > > On 6/5/19, 7:05 AM, "Frost, Andrew" <An...@Harman.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, me :-)
> > >
> > > I'm pushing Royale internally, I think it has a lot of promise -
> > > although I still do find it a little frustrating at times internally!
> In
> > > terms of what support you can give, the sorts of things you're already
> > > doing are great, but yes it might mean we lean a little more on this
> > > mailing list if we're facing tricky issues.
> > >
> > > We have one sales case in particular at the moment which has the
> > > potential to be very big, we're hoping they move forwards with a proof
> of
> > > concept project which would take a small part of their app and port
> this
> > to
> > > Royale. A few issues we've found so far from investigations:
> > > - their flex code is embedding icons that are contained within a
> SWF.
> > > Royale compiler didn't seem to like this, not sure whether it's just
> > syntax
> > > or whether we need to pull all the assets out (not a big job, we can
> > > automate that..)
> > > - they have binding using functions e.g.
> > > text="{localizationHelper.getString('fieldName')}", which caused an
> issue
> > > when generating the JavaScript code as the string-within-a-string
> seemed
> > to
> > > upset the parser. We can look at this later perhaps though..
> > > - when we got it compiling, the main thing was with responsiveness
> > > i.e. trying to get the app to resize and for all the internal elements
> to
> > > then resize. We may use the MX emulation classes for this but it still
> > > looked like more support is needed - although we only looked briefly at
> > > this.
> > >
> > > Once those issues are sorted though, we would have one big task (to
> > > recreate a very advanced data grid control that they'd developed in
> > > Flex/Flash) and a lot of the rest - around the AS3 logic - should fall
> > into
> > > place! I'm hoping we can convince them to go with this solution..
> > >
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Harbs [mailto:harbs.lists@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: 04 June 2019 14:41
> > > To: dev@royale.apache.org
> > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: AIR and Royale
> > >
> > > Well to start with: Does anyone know anyone working for them?
> > >
> > > I’d like to hear from them what it would take for them to push
> Royale
> > > more.
> > >
> > > > On Jun 4, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Carlos Rovira <
> carlosrovira@apache.org
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > what's the kind of support you're thinking ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > El mar., 4 jun. 2019 a las 9:36, Piotr Zarzycki
> > > > (<pi...@gmail.com>)
> > > > escribió:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi Harbs,
> > > >>
> > > >> I was exactly think the same about that, so I'm keeping finger
> > > >> crossed to that effort.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Piotr
> > > >>
> > > >> wt., 4 cze 2019 o 09:34 Harbs <ha...@gmail.com>
> napisał(a):
> > > >>
> > > >>> I just heard about this announcement.[1]
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I went over to the Harman site and was reading this page.[2]
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I was particularly struck by this statement:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> HARMAN’s offerings also include consultancy, support and
> > migration
> > > >>> services for companies looking to move their applications away
> > > from
> > > >>> Flash technologies over to HTML5 via solutions such as Angular,
> > > >>> Apache Royale
> > > >> and
> > > >>> other JavaScript based frameworks.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Considering that they mention Royale explicitly as the number 2
> > > >> framework,
> > > >>> I’m guessing they will be pushing Royale to a certain degree.
> We
> > > >>> should probably look to support that effort.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> [1]
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3L9wbF4uCYccj7EQCUBeXbp7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171832330&sdata=XSKi6AAdovaj5CSqDxp4JKUXM%2Fu5uTzKYfJhrsWjO4s%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>> %3A%2F%2Ftheblog.adobe.com%2Fthe-future-of-adobe-air%2F <
> > > >>>
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3L9wbF4uCYccj7EQCUBeXbp7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=7Cp77z%2FW16Gf%2B9Q8P0%2Fs7qOBZdGYOh71F0bX%2BYLwXp8%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>> %2F%2Ftheblog.adobe.com%2Fthe-future-of-adobe-air%2F>
> > > >>> [2]
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F36DC33RH3RXctPTGAK4XztY7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=WmyyWadQQ1saSrBkTeuYmPiM0vDW49J3Lob%2BC7eejfg%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>> %3A%2F%2Fservices.harman.com%2Fpartners%2Fadobe <
> > > >>>
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F36DC33RH3RXctPTGAK4XztY7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=JGO%2Fg99Iey8nKvQN5Hzd2EmXkle35QSllbc5UyDaj%2FE%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>> %2F%2Fservices.harman.com%2Fpartners%2Fadobe>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >>
> > > >> Piotr Zarzycki
> > > >>
> > > >> Patreon:
> > > >> *
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F32dvoAS1WTaQP1E2yQmx5pn7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=%2FDiwRHFQCxdxO7pjeV85svwoRoI8nZmWpWBKDNgzr3w%3D&reserved=0
> > > >> %2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki
> > > >> <
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F32dvoAS1WTaQP1E2yQmx5pn7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=%2FDiwRHFQCxdxO7pjeV85svwoRoI8nZmWpWBKDNgzr3w%3D&reserved=0
> > > >> %2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki>*
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Carlos Rovira
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3Peb7VMJWFagYLtTD2HSBGD7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=PE5%2FahFsZHO5iuUE9pbP3jnax2KYXkxJBvBS%2Bfxb22Y%3D&reserved=0
> > > > %2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Rovira
> > http://about.me/carlosrovira
> >
>
--
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira
Re: Embedded Assets (was Re: AIR and Royale)
Posted by OmPrakash Muppirala <bi...@gmail.com>.
In recent applications using React/Webpack, I have seen defaults of using
base64 embedding of files less than 10k in size.
I guess the tradeoff is in between firing off several http requests for
small files vs embedding them is a less efficient format.
I think a similar strategy would work for Royale.
Thanks,
Om
On Thu, Jun 6, 2019, 3:32 AM Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think in the case of HTML, does not have sense to me the concept of Embed
> like in Flex. Maybe of SWF target or others (don't know if WebAsm could
> benefit from something like this)
> Maybe for HTML use something like Embed metadata, could just copy the
> assets to the resources folder to be available, since like Alex said, a
> request per asset is needed and making other kind of big file seems strange
> in this case (maybe not). Although we have solved the copying of assets in
> different ways through compiler for libraries and ANT/MAVEN automation in
> Application.
>
> for me this could be something to investigate in the future, but with low
> priority, since I think we still have bigger fish to fry
>
> just my 2...
>
>
> El mié., 5 jun. 2019 a las 18:07, Alex Harui (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
> escribió:
>
> > Regarding embedded assets in Royale:
> >
> > There is no embedded asset support at this time because it is not obvious
> > to me it will be worth it. We need a volunteer to devise a strategy that
> > works and implement it.
> >
> > In Flex/Flash, my understanding is that folks embedded assets to save on
> > server requests for assets like images. That makes sense because, since
> a
> > SWF is a compressed binary and most assets are compressed binaries, you
> can
> > essentially append the assets to the SWF.
> >
> > However, for Royale in the browser, every implementation of "embedding"
> > I've seen seems to Base64 encode the asset, converting it to text and
> > increasing the number of bytes. And the resulting Base64 bytes may
> > deteriorate the gzip compression of the .html file.
> >
> > Flash also had frames in the SWF and assets could be embedded on later
> > frames allowing a download progress bar to show up before all of the rest
> > of the SWF is downloaded. I don't know what the equivalent for that is
> > without Flash.
> >
> > I believe another advantage of embedding in Flash was that the asset was
> > ready to be instantiated and placed on the display list right away. I'm
> > not clear that an embedded Base64 image can be used in an <img> tag and
> > prevent "popping" given that Royale generates the <img> tags dynamically.
> >
> > So, we need a volunteer to create some examples of how to use browser
> > embedding in dynamically generated <img> tags so we can see if there will
> > be any benefit or not. And if not, possibly explore other options, such
> as
> > delivering all assets in one true binary blob somehow.
> >
> > HTH,
> > -Alex
> >
> > On 6/5/19, 7:05 AM, "Frost, Andrew" <An...@Harman.com> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, me :-)
> >
> > I'm pushing Royale internally, I think it has a lot of promise -
> > although I still do find it a little frustrating at times internally! In
> > terms of what support you can give, the sorts of things you're already
> > doing are great, but yes it might mean we lean a little more on this
> > mailing list if we're facing tricky issues.
> >
> > We have one sales case in particular at the moment which has the
> > potential to be very big, we're hoping they move forwards with a proof of
> > concept project which would take a small part of their app and port this
> to
> > Royale. A few issues we've found so far from investigations:
> > - their flex code is embedding icons that are contained within a SWF.
> > Royale compiler didn't seem to like this, not sure whether it's just
> syntax
> > or whether we need to pull all the assets out (not a big job, we can
> > automate that..)
> > - they have binding using functions e.g.
> > text="{localizationHelper.getString('fieldName')}", which caused an issue
> > when generating the JavaScript code as the string-within-a-string seemed
> to
> > upset the parser. We can look at this later perhaps though..
> > - when we got it compiling, the main thing was with responsiveness
> > i.e. trying to get the app to resize and for all the internal elements to
> > then resize. We may use the MX emulation classes for this but it still
> > looked like more support is needed - although we only looked briefly at
> > this.
> >
> > Once those issues are sorted though, we would have one big task (to
> > recreate a very advanced data grid control that they'd developed in
> > Flex/Flash) and a lot of the rest - around the AS3 logic - should fall
> into
> > place! I'm hoping we can convince them to go with this solution..
> >
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Harbs [mailto:harbs.lists@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 04 June 2019 14:41
> > To: dev@royale.apache.org
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: AIR and Royale
> >
> > Well to start with: Does anyone know anyone working for them?
> >
> > I’d like to hear from them what it would take for them to push Royale
> > more.
> >
> > > On Jun 4, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Carlos Rovira <carlosrovira@apache.org
> >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > what's the kind of support you're thinking ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > El mar., 4 jun. 2019 a las 9:36, Piotr Zarzycki
> > > (<pi...@gmail.com>)
> > > escribió:
> > >
> > >> Hi Harbs,
> > >>
> > >> I was exactly think the same about that, so I'm keeping finger
> > >> crossed to that effort.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Piotr
> > >>
> > >> wt., 4 cze 2019 o 09:34 Harbs <ha...@gmail.com> napisał(a):
> > >>
> > >>> I just heard about this announcement.[1]
> > >>>
> > >>> I went over to the Harman site and was reading this page.[2]
> > >>>
> > >>> I was particularly struck by this statement:
> > >>>
> > >>> HARMAN’s offerings also include consultancy, support and
> migration
> > >>> services for companies looking to move their applications away
> > from
> > >>> Flash technologies over to HTML5 via solutions such as Angular,
> > >>> Apache Royale
> > >> and
> > >>> other JavaScript based frameworks.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Considering that they mention Royale explicitly as the number 2
> > >> framework,
> > >>> I’m guessing they will be pushing Royale to a certain degree. We
> > >>> should probably look to support that effort.
> > >>>
> > >>> [1]
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3L9wbF4uCYccj7EQCUBeXbp7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171832330&sdata=XSKi6AAdovaj5CSqDxp4JKUXM%2Fu5uTzKYfJhrsWjO4s%3D&reserved=0
> > >>> %3A%2F%2Ftheblog.adobe.com%2Fthe-future-of-adobe-air%2F <
> > >>>
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3L9wbF4uCYccj7EQCUBeXbp7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=7Cp77z%2FW16Gf%2B9Q8P0%2Fs7qOBZdGYOh71F0bX%2BYLwXp8%3D&reserved=0
> > >>> %2F%2Ftheblog.adobe.com%2Fthe-future-of-adobe-air%2F>
> > >>> [2]
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F36DC33RH3RXctPTGAK4XztY7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=WmyyWadQQ1saSrBkTeuYmPiM0vDW49J3Lob%2BC7eejfg%3D&reserved=0
> > >>> %3A%2F%2Fservices.harman.com%2Fpartners%2Fadobe <
> > >>>
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F36DC33RH3RXctPTGAK4XztY7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=JGO%2Fg99Iey8nKvQN5Hzd2EmXkle35QSllbc5UyDaj%2FE%3D&reserved=0
> > >>> %2F%2Fservices.harman.com%2Fpartners%2Fadobe>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >>
> > >> Piotr Zarzycki
> > >>
> > >> Patreon:
> > >> *
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F32dvoAS1WTaQP1E2yQmx5pn7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=%2FDiwRHFQCxdxO7pjeV85svwoRoI8nZmWpWBKDNgzr3w%3D&reserved=0
> > >> %2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki
> > >> <
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F32dvoAS1WTaQP1E2yQmx5pn7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=%2FDiwRHFQCxdxO7pjeV85svwoRoI8nZmWpWBKDNgzr3w%3D&reserved=0
> > >> %2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki>*
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carlos Rovira
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3Peb7VMJWFagYLtTD2HSBGD7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=PE5%2FahFsZHO5iuUE9pbP3jnax2KYXkxJBvBS%2Bfxb22Y%3D&reserved=0
> > > %2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> http://about.me/carlosrovira
>
Re: Embedded Assets (was Re: AIR and Royale)
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>.
Hi,
I think in the case of HTML, does not have sense to me the concept of Embed
like in Flex. Maybe of SWF target or others (don't know if WebAsm could
benefit from something like this)
Maybe for HTML use something like Embed metadata, could just copy the
assets to the resources folder to be available, since like Alex said, a
request per asset is needed and making other kind of big file seems strange
in this case (maybe not). Although we have solved the copying of assets in
different ways through compiler for libraries and ANT/MAVEN automation in
Application.
for me this could be something to investigate in the future, but with low
priority, since I think we still have bigger fish to fry
just my 2...
El mié., 5 jun. 2019 a las 18:07, Alex Harui (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
escribió:
> Regarding embedded assets in Royale:
>
> There is no embedded asset support at this time because it is not obvious
> to me it will be worth it. We need a volunteer to devise a strategy that
> works and implement it.
>
> In Flex/Flash, my understanding is that folks embedded assets to save on
> server requests for assets like images. That makes sense because, since a
> SWF is a compressed binary and most assets are compressed binaries, you can
> essentially append the assets to the SWF.
>
> However, for Royale in the browser, every implementation of "embedding"
> I've seen seems to Base64 encode the asset, converting it to text and
> increasing the number of bytes. And the resulting Base64 bytes may
> deteriorate the gzip compression of the .html file.
>
> Flash also had frames in the SWF and assets could be embedded on later
> frames allowing a download progress bar to show up before all of the rest
> of the SWF is downloaded. I don't know what the equivalent for that is
> without Flash.
>
> I believe another advantage of embedding in Flash was that the asset was
> ready to be instantiated and placed on the display list right away. I'm
> not clear that an embedded Base64 image can be used in an <img> tag and
> prevent "popping" given that Royale generates the <img> tags dynamically.
>
> So, we need a volunteer to create some examples of how to use browser
> embedding in dynamically generated <img> tags so we can see if there will
> be any benefit or not. And if not, possibly explore other options, such as
> delivering all assets in one true binary blob somehow.
>
> HTH,
> -Alex
>
> On 6/5/19, 7:05 AM, "Frost, Andrew" <An...@Harman.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, me :-)
>
> I'm pushing Royale internally, I think it has a lot of promise -
> although I still do find it a little frustrating at times internally! In
> terms of what support you can give, the sorts of things you're already
> doing are great, but yes it might mean we lean a little more on this
> mailing list if we're facing tricky issues.
>
> We have one sales case in particular at the moment which has the
> potential to be very big, we're hoping they move forwards with a proof of
> concept project which would take a small part of their app and port this to
> Royale. A few issues we've found so far from investigations:
> - their flex code is embedding icons that are contained within a SWF.
> Royale compiler didn't seem to like this, not sure whether it's just syntax
> or whether we need to pull all the assets out (not a big job, we can
> automate that..)
> - they have binding using functions e.g.
> text="{localizationHelper.getString('fieldName')}", which caused an issue
> when generating the JavaScript code as the string-within-a-string seemed to
> upset the parser. We can look at this later perhaps though..
> - when we got it compiling, the main thing was with responsiveness
> i.e. trying to get the app to resize and for all the internal elements to
> then resize. We may use the MX emulation classes for this but it still
> looked like more support is needed - although we only looked briefly at
> this.
>
> Once those issues are sorted though, we would have one big task (to
> recreate a very advanced data grid control that they'd developed in
> Flex/Flash) and a lot of the rest - around the AS3 logic - should fall into
> place! I'm hoping we can convince them to go with this solution..
>
>
> thanks
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harbs [mailto:harbs.lists@gmail.com]
> Sent: 04 June 2019 14:41
> To: dev@royale.apache.org
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: AIR and Royale
>
> Well to start with: Does anyone know anyone working for them?
>
> I’d like to hear from them what it would take for them to push Royale
> more.
>
> > On Jun 4, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > what's the kind of support you're thinking ?
> >
> >
> >
> > El mar., 4 jun. 2019 a las 9:36, Piotr Zarzycki
> > (<pi...@gmail.com>)
> > escribió:
> >
> >> Hi Harbs,
> >>
> >> I was exactly think the same about that, so I'm keeping finger
> >> crossed to that effort.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Piotr
> >>
> >> wt., 4 cze 2019 o 09:34 Harbs <ha...@gmail.com> napisał(a):
> >>
> >>> I just heard about this announcement.[1]
> >>>
> >>> I went over to the Harman site and was reading this page.[2]
> >>>
> >>> I was particularly struck by this statement:
> >>>
> >>> HARMAN’s offerings also include consultancy, support and migration
> >>> services for companies looking to move their applications away
> from
> >>> Flash technologies over to HTML5 via solutions such as Angular,
> >>> Apache Royale
> >> and
> >>> other JavaScript based frameworks.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Considering that they mention Royale explicitly as the number 2
> >> framework,
> >>> I’m guessing they will be pushing Royale to a certain degree. We
> >>> should probably look to support that effort.
> >>>
> >>> [1]
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3L9wbF4uCYccj7EQCUBeXbp7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171832330&sdata=XSKi6AAdovaj5CSqDxp4JKUXM%2Fu5uTzKYfJhrsWjO4s%3D&reserved=0
> >>> %3A%2F%2Ftheblog.adobe.com%2Fthe-future-of-adobe-air%2F <
> >>>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3L9wbF4uCYccj7EQCUBeXbp7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=7Cp77z%2FW16Gf%2B9Q8P0%2Fs7qOBZdGYOh71F0bX%2BYLwXp8%3D&reserved=0
> >>> %2F%2Ftheblog.adobe.com%2Fthe-future-of-adobe-air%2F>
> >>> [2]
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F36DC33RH3RXctPTGAK4XztY7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=WmyyWadQQ1saSrBkTeuYmPiM0vDW49J3Lob%2BC7eejfg%3D&reserved=0
> >>> %3A%2F%2Fservices.harman.com%2Fpartners%2Fadobe <
> >>>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F36DC33RH3RXctPTGAK4XztY7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=JGO%2Fg99Iey8nKvQN5Hzd2EmXkle35QSllbc5UyDaj%2FE%3D&reserved=0
> >>> %2F%2Fservices.harman.com%2Fpartners%2Fadobe>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Piotr Zarzycki
> >>
> >> Patreon:
> >> *
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F32dvoAS1WTaQP1E2yQmx5pn7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=%2FDiwRHFQCxdxO7pjeV85svwoRoI8nZmWpWBKDNgzr3w%3D&reserved=0
> >> %2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki
> >> <
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F32dvoAS1WTaQP1E2yQmx5pn7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=%2FDiwRHFQCxdxO7pjeV85svwoRoI8nZmWpWBKDNgzr3w%3D&reserved=0
> >> %2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki>*
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Rovira
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3Peb7VMJWFagYLtTD2HSBGD7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C1c133b6b710344d4bf3f08d6e9bed52a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636953403171842325&sdata=PE5%2FahFsZHO5iuUE9pbP3jnax2KYXkxJBvBS%2Bfxb22Y%3D&reserved=0
> > %2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira
>
>
>
--
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira