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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by di...@multitask.com.au on 2002/05/11 17:07:54 UTC
Project Activity
Back in mid March there was a discussion around the jakarta overview (
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/overview.html ) and what / wasn't a good
measure of project activity. My comment back then was commits on a project
are a good indicator.
So anyway, I've added this reporting into the cvs head of maven. For a
sample, see: http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/maven-reports.html
In particular the change log, developer activity and file activity.
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Not cross posted. I suggest a webpage and then forbid posts to lists
about it. Taglines/etc are okay but explicit posts can get out of hand
especially during economic downturns when everyone is looking for an
angle. I think it hasn't been a problem as some folks probably figured
standard spam rule applied (At least I did).
-Andy
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>In these days I've seen messages from dion@multitask.com.au advertising
>commercial support for Apache software on this list
>(http://www.multitask.com.au/default.html?page=mtSOS) and on individual
>project lists
>http://sos.multitask.com.au/QuickPlace/sos/main.nsf/h_Toc/07633801fb8c6459ca
>256bb3001722b1/?OpenDocument .
>
>I think that this is a very nice thing, since IMHO commercial support is
>vital for Apache software.
>
>I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that support
>Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done.
>
>Are there any special guidelines on this?
>
>Are there any suggestions on this topic?
>
>--
>Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
> - verba volant, scripta manent -
> (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
From: "Jeff Turner" <je...@socialchange.net.au>
> On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 01:20:24PM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote:
> > It isn't just about announcements - if it were then we would just use
> > the announcements mailing lists. It is really about having a place
> > where we can discuss these issues which are welcome no where else.
>
> Ah right. "these issues" being, "commercial entities supporting Apache
> software", aka "How to make a buck off Jakarta". Cool :) I'd subscribe.
> The Open Source vs. Paid Work conflict sucks.
>
> Maybe start an egroups list, or even just collect a list of people to
> Cc. Mail weekly summaries to general@ to maintain interest. Then if it's
> still around in 1 month, ping infrastructure@ and beg :)
krysalis-jakarta-adv@lists.sourceforge.net
The list has just been created and will be available shortly.
If it generates intrest, we will ask to put it here at Jakarta.
If not, heck, we tried ;-)
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
I think you should make it clear what we're talking about here.
Engaging in commercial ventures on a list is something I might even be
interested in. Receiving the spam of the day from company X whose
latest angle is Apache support, is not.
Jeff Turner wrote:
>On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 01:20:24PM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote:
>
>
>>At 13:13 13/05/2002, Jeff Turner wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 09:54:48AM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I would like to encourage information about commercial entities
>>>>>that support Apache software, but I really have no clue about how
>>>>>it should be done.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and
>>>>other OSS software.
>>>>
>>>>I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to
>>>>setup a top level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise
>>>>oneself, one's company, or to advertise that you need support.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list
>>>and everyone still cc's announcements to general@.
>>>
>>>Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV]
>>>for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements.
>>>
>>>
>>It isn't just about announcements - if it were then we would just use
>>the announcements mailing lists. It is really about having a place
>>where we can discuss these issues which are welcome no where else.
>>
>>
>
>Ah right. "these issues" being, "commercial entities supporting Apache
>software", aka "How to make a buck off Jakarta". Cool :) I'd subscribe.
>The Open Source vs. Paid Work conflict sucks.
>
>Maybe start an egroups list, or even just collect a list of people to
>Cc. Mail weekly summaries to general@ to maintain interest. Then if it's
>still around in 1 month, ping infrastructure@ and beg :)
>
>
>--Jeff
>
>
>
>>Alex
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@socialchange.net.au>.
On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 01:20:24PM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote:
> At 13:13 13/05/2002, Jeff Turner wrote:
> >On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 09:54:48AM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote:
> >> At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> >> >I would like to encourage information about commercial entities
> >> >that support Apache software, but I really have no clue about how
> >> >it should be done.
> >>
> >> I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and
> >> other OSS software.
> >>
> >> I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to
> >> setup a top level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise
> >> oneself, one's company, or to advertise that you need support.
> >
> >I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list
> >and everyone still cc's announcements to general@.
> >
> >Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV]
> >for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements.
>
> It isn't just about announcements - if it were then we would just use
> the announcements mailing lists. It is really about having a place
> where we can discuss these issues which are welcome no where else.
Ah right. "these issues" being, "commercial entities supporting Apache
software", aka "How to make a buck off Jakarta". Cool :) I'd subscribe.
The Open Source vs. Paid Work conflict sucks.
Maybe start an egroups list, or even just collect a list of people to
Cc. Mail weekly summaries to general@ to maintain interest. Then if it's
still around in 1 month, ping infrastructure@ and beg :)
--Jeff
> Alex
>
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Alex McLintock <al...@OWAL.co.uk>.
At 13:13 13/05/2002, Jeff Turner wrote:
>On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 09:54:48AM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote:
> > At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> > >I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that
> > >support
> > >Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done.
> >
> > I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and
> > other OSS software.
> >
> > I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to setup a
> top
> > level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise oneself, one's
> > company, or to advertise that you need support.
>
>I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and
>everyone still cc's announcements to general@.
>
>Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for
>adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements.
It isn't just about announcements - if it were then we would just use the
announcements mailing lists.
It is really about having a place where we can discuss these issues which
are welcome no where else.
Alex
Openweb Analysts Ltd, London: Software For Complex Websites
http://www.OWAL.co.uk/
Free Consultancy for London Companies thinking of Open Source Software.
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Rob Oxspring <ro...@imapmail.org>.
Have never played with any mailing list software myself but would it be
possible to bounce cross posts? That way people would soon learn that cross
posts are not appreciated without having to interrupt the subscribers!
Just thinking out loud...
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Donald" <pe...@apache.org>
To: "Jakarta General List" <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
On Mon, 13 May 2002 22:13, Jeff Turner wrote:
> I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and
> everyone still cc's announcements to general@.
>
> Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for
> adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements.
Perhaps we could also prefix their messages with [TROLL], [SPAM], [WHINING]
or
[EGO] where appropriate ? :)
--
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Peter Donald
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[LOL] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Peter Donald wrote:
>On Mon, 13 May 2002 22:13, Jeff Turner wrote:
>
>
>>I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and
>>everyone still cc's announcements to general@.
>>
>>Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for
>>adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements.
>>
>>
>
>Perhaps we could also prefix their messages with [TROLL], [SPAM], [WHINING] or
>[EGO] where appropriate ? :)
>
>
>
LOL
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[METOO] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by co...@covalent.net.
On Mon, 13 May 2002, Peter Donald wrote:
> On Mon, 13 May 2002 22:13, Jeff Turner wrote:
> > I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and
> > everyone still cc's announcements to general@.
> >
> > Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for
> > adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements.
>
> Perhaps we could also prefix their messages with [TROLL], [SPAM], [WHINING] or
> [EGO] where appropriate ? :)
+1 :-)
Costin
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 13 May 2002 22:13, Jeff Turner wrote:
> I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and
> everyone still cc's announcements to general@.
>
> Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for
> adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements.
Perhaps we could also prefix their messages with [TROLL], [SPAM], [WHINING] or
[EGO] where appropriate ? :)
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Peter Donald
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
Hi,
Perhas a better idea would be to get some space on main website where people
could advertise that they supply support for various Jakarta projects or
whatever. That way people have a central location to go to get info on
commercial support and all that. Theres a whole bunch of people that do
support/contract/consulting on jakarta stuff and it could end up extremely
noisy if done on list.
I would prefer that general remain about community/organisational/etc issues
across the whole jakarta project. Keep noise signal to noise ratio as high as
we can I say.
On Mon, 13 May 2002 22:48, Jeff Turner wrote:
> > > Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV]
> > > for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements.
> >
> > I've noticed too that the annoumcement list stuff gets CCd to other
> > lists.
> >
> > How about having all content sent to that list be automatically CCd to
> > general lists with [ANN]?
>
> To spell out this idea: any mail that gets sent to announcements@jakarta
> is forwarded to general@ with "[ANN]" prepended to it's subject
> (possibly stripping any existing [ANN] variants).
>
> Same with adverts@jakarta..
>
> That's kinda nice. In addition to munging the subject line, it could add
> an X-Jakarta-Announce: or X-Jakarta-Advert: header, which people could
> filter on.
>
> All assuming that people *want* Jakarta-related adverts and
> announcements on general@. I get the impression that some do, a few
> don't, and most don't care.
>
>
> --Jeff
>
> > This way if one wants only announcements, he can subscribe to that list,
> > while other users get the ANN topics automatically.
> >
> > This could be done also with an adv@jakarta.apache.org list, and [ADV] as
> > Jeff suggests.
> > Another result of this is having separate mail history for these lists.
> >
> > --
> > Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
> > - verba volant, scripta manent -
> > (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
--
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Peter Donald
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>From: "Jeff Turner" <je...@socialchange.net.au>
>
>
>
>>On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 09:54:48AM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote:
>>
>>
>>>At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that
>>>>support
>>>>Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and
>>>other OSS software.
>>>
>>>I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to setup a
>>>
>>>
>top
>
>
>>>level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise oneself, one's
>>>company, or to advertise that you need support.
>>>
>>>
>>I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and
>>everyone still cc's announcements to general@.
>>
>>Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for
>>adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements.
>>
>>
>
>I've noticed too that the annoumcement list stuff gets CCd to other lists.
>
>How about having all content sent to that list be automatically CCd to
>general lists with [ANN]?
>
>
-1 - I want announcements not ads.
>This way if one wants only announcements, he can subscribe to that list,
>while other users get the ANN topics automatically.
>This could be done also with an adv@jakarta.apache.org list, and [ADV] as
>Jeff suggests.
>Another result of this is having separate mail history for these lists.
>
>--
>Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
> - verba volant, scripta manent -
> (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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Re: [EGO]RE: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
From: "Alex McLintock" <al...@OWAL.co.uk>
> At 11:01 14/05/2002, Danny Angus wrote:
> > > But I'm not just interested in the Jakarta projects
> >
> >Well you should be.
> >They're all great, and we're all great guys.
> >
> >d.
>
> Please re-read the sentence above. It should parse that I am interested in
> Jakarta projects but I am also interested in the Apache web server, the
> Apache XML projects, and the Apache perl projects, none of which have
> anything to do with Jakarta. Nicola suggested that the new mailing list
> (which I have just subscribed to) is only for Jakarta projects. I intend
to
> ignore that :-)
:-)
Well, basically the idea was more about Apache java projects, but there is
no limit.
Topic: Apache commercial, mainly Java but not only.
> I presume I may publicise the new list elsewhere?
Of course :-)
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/krysalis-jakarta-adv
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Re: [EGO]RE: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Alex McLintock <al...@OWAL.co.uk>.
At 11:01 14/05/2002, Danny Angus wrote:
> > But I'm not just interested in the Jakarta projects
>
>Well you should be.
>They're all great, and we're all great guys.
>
>d.
Please re-read the sentence above. It should parse that I am interested in
Jakarta projects but I am also interested in the Apache web server, the
Apache XML projects, and the Apache perl projects, none of which have
anything to do with Jakarta. Nicola suggested that the new mailing list
(which I have just subscribed to) is only for Jakarta projects. I intend to
ignore that :-)
I presume I may publicise the new list elsewhere?
Alex
Openweb Analysts Ltd, London: Software For Complex Websites
http://www.OWAL.co.uk/
Free Consultancy for London Companies thinking of Open Source Software.
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
hehe
Henri Yandell wrote:
>I took it as tongue in cheek :) I mean...who wouldn't be interested solely
>in Jakarta. It beggar's belief.
>
>On Tue, 14 May 2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>
>
>
>>You do realize you just said that on general@jakarta ;-)
>>
>>Alex McLintock wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>But I'm not just interested in the Jakarta projects - I'm mostly
>>>interested in the Apache xml projects.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
I took it as tongue in cheek :) I mean...who wouldn't be interested solely
in Jakarta. It beggar's belief.
On Tue, 14 May 2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> You do realize you just said that on general@jakarta ;-)
>
> Alex McLintock wrote:
>
> >
> > But I'm not just interested in the Jakarta projects - I'm mostly
> > interested in the Apache xml projects.
> >
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
You do realize you just said that on general@jakarta ;-)
Alex McLintock wrote:
> At 14:56 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>> This list a place where we can talk-discuss about Commercial support to
>> Jakarta projects.
>
>
> But I'm not just interested in the Jakarta projects - I'm mostly
> interested in the Apache xml projects.
>
> Oh well I've subscribed anyway.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> Openweb Analysts Ltd, London: Software For Complex Websites
> http://www.OWAL.co.uk/
> Free Consultancy for London Companies thinking of Open Source Software.
>
>
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Re: [METO] Re: [EGO]RE: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
how funny I even misspelled metoo ;-)
On Tue, 2002-05-14 at 08:23, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> Danny Angus wrote:
>
> >>But I'm not just interested in the Jakarta projects
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Well you should be.
> >They're all great, and we're all great guys.
> >
> >
>
> +1
>
> >d.
> >
> >--
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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[METO] Re: [EGO]RE: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Danny Angus wrote:
>>But I'm not just interested in the Jakarta projects
>>
>>
>
>Well you should be.
>They're all great, and we're all great guys.
>
>
+1
>d.
>
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[EGO]RE: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@thought.co.uk>.
> But I'm not just interested in the Jakarta projects
Well you should be.
They're all great, and we're all great guys.
d.
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Alex McLintock <al...@OWAL.co.uk>.
At 14:56 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>This list a place where we can talk-discuss about Commercial support to
>Jakarta projects.
But I'm not just interested in the Jakarta projects - I'm mostly interested
in the Apache xml projects.
Oh well I've subscribed anyway.
Thanks!
Alex
Openweb Analysts Ltd, London: Software For Complex Websites
http://www.OWAL.co.uk/
Free Consultancy for London Companies thinking of Open Source Software.
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
From: "Alex McLintock" <al...@arcfan.demon.co.uk>
> At 14:06 13/05/2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> > Secondly, lets Make a rule NOT to post advertising to the mail lists,
> > that is NOT what they are there for.
>
> Don't get hung up on adverts. We need somewhere to discuss commercial
> issues - and there is no apache forum where this is allowed.
> If there was a forum/ mailing list for such matters then you could all say
> that that is where to post adverts to and *no where else*.
Ok, this is a mailing list that has been created for this purpose.
krysalis-jakarta-adv@lists.sourceforge.net
To subscribe click on the Mailing lists link on http://www.krysalis.org/ and
subscribe to the krysalis-jakarta-adv list.
-oOo-
Krysalis www.krysalis.org is the home of some projects that follow, and can
help to follow, Apache-style license and guidelines.
This list a place where we can talk-discuss about Commercial support to
Jakarta projects.
If this list will have a reasonable success, we can ask to have it hosted
directly at Jakarta, as is for all Krysalis projects.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 2002-05-13 at 15:44, Alex McLintock wrote:
> At 14:06 13/05/2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> > Secondly, lets Make a rule NOT to post advertising to the mail lists,
> > that is NOT what they are there for.
>
>
> Don't get hung up on adverts. We need somewhere to discuss commercial
> issues - and there is no apache forum where this is allowed.
> If there was a forum/ mailing list for such matters then you could all say
> that that is where to post adverts to and *no where else*.
I can see you need somewhere to discuss commercial issues. I cannot see
why such a forum would have to be an apache forum. We can include a link
on the page Andrew is going to make to such a forum in an external
location.
I am all for commercial use and support of apache products, however I do
not think that facilities to enable this commercial use and support
should be provided by apache itself.
twisted analogy: few people that work on the linux kernel have a problem
with red hat; however, I think they'd not like it that much if
kernel.org were to host a forum for use by red hat and the like.
cheers,
- Leo
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Alex McLintock <al...@arcfan.demon.co.uk>.
At 14:06 13/05/2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> Secondly, lets Make a rule NOT to post advertising to the mail lists,
> that is NOT what they are there for.
Don't get hung up on adverts. We need somewhere to discuss commercial
issues - and there is no apache forum where this is allowed.
If there was a forum/ mailing list for such matters then you could all say
that that is where to post adverts to and *no where else*.
Alex
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
From: "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>
> I completely agree with that sentiment. I think it ROCKS if you're able
> to practice Apache where you work and get paid for it. I hope the list
> Ken started takes off in a different manner than the "subscribe to be
> advertised to" that I think it might.
This is exactly why I started it.
It's a test, to see if something more that "Get X product, it rocks" can be
achieved.
I honestly hope it will; if not, we will have the demonstration that such a
thing is impractical, and no more need to "suppose" it could be a good idea.
It's there now. You want to make it work?
Join.
krysalis-jakarta-adv mailing list @ www.krysalis.org
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
I completely agree with that sentiment. I think it ROCKS if you're able
to practice Apache where you work and get paid for it. I hope the list
Ken started takes off in a different manner than the "subscribe to be
advertised to" that I think it might. I'd like to see more like a
world-wide networking list take place...fat chance but its a nice thought.
Henri Yandell wrote:
>+1 from me.
>
>While it's nice to see committers who are able to commercially work with
>the experience they gain/use here, it would be very demeaning to the list
>for every company who are using jsp/servlets/other to post their
>consultant services to the general list.
>
>Hen
>
>On 13 May 2002, Leo Simons wrote:
>
>
>
>>+1 to all of that.
>>
>>- Leo
>>
>>
>>
>>>Sun Micro, has a page of "here are Java companies" -- lets "innovate"
>>>it and put up a similar Jakarta page -- Here are companies and folks who
>>>support Apache Jakarta software. I volunteer. Secondly, lets Make a
>>>rule NOT to post advertising to the mail lists, that is NOT what they
>>>are there for.
>>>
>>>This does a few things:
>>>
>>>1. Provides a good rationale to companies to use Apache Jakarta Software
>>>(not a specific goal of the group but a personal goal of several people
>>>here including myself as I like working with GOOD software)
>>>
>>>2. Gives those companies a place to post thats relevant to Jakarta,
>>>won't annoy people who might otherwise use them.
>>>
>>>3. Give those companies a high visability web page to advertise on.
>>>
>>>4. God I don't need more spam. My spam filter entries will one day
>>>reach the limit on the number of strings I can match on.
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [Actual Action Taken] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 2002-05-14 at 17:19, Leo Simons wrote:
> > Is this for any vendor who wants free ads,
>
> -1
agreed. -1.
>
> > or only for companies that
> > support Apache projects
>
> +1
>
exactly.
> > ( and pay the salary for apache commiters ) ?
>
> -1
I have no opinion on that. I'm fine with either way.
>
> I think it should just be a "these are some companies providing
> commercial support for jakarta", and there should be no more ties than
> that. Gets messy to quickly. The page should reflect (thinking of an
> authority we all know) a search on google about "commercial support for
> apache software", but sorted categorically/alphabetically rather than by
> any kind of rank.
>
-1 Those who wish to be listed should submit patches to list
themselves. This also forms a bit of .... natural quality assurance.
If they are too dumb to figure out how to submit a patch, then its a
public service not to list them ;-).
> There should be a note on the page probably mentioning that this is the
> page its sole intention, and that companies can request addition if they
> want (in the form of a patch, I'd say).
>
I'm very okay with you doing that.
> > I think it would be fair and nice if projects would include such a page
> > in the releases, maybe next to the list of commiters who wrote the code.
>
> That is, of course, up to individual projects. I'm not really in favor
> of it (what if there's a new company providing support, giving a client
> the distro, and not being listed on that page...too many possible
> headaches).
>
I have no opinion on that.
> Sorry, Andy, no time for lunch for me today so no patch either...
Well I'm sure if it is important enough to you you'll find time. If its
not then well its not to me either ;-)
-Andy
>
> cheers,
>
> - Leo
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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RE: [Actual Action Taken] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
:-D descending alphabetical order is fine with me as well ;-) Go ahead
and submit patches or commit that reflect this view ;-)
-Andy
On Tue, 2002-05-14 at 17:26, James Mitchell wrote:
> Alphabetical? Now that's just not fair!
>
> JM
> ZZZ Technologies Inc.
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Leo Simons [mailto:leosimons@apache.org]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 5:20 PM
> > To: Jakarta General List
> > Subject: Re: [Actual Action Taken] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
> >
> >
> > > Is this for any vendor who wants free ads,
> >
> > -1
> >
> > > or only for companies that
> > > support Apache projects
> >
> > +1
> >
> > > ( and pay the salary for apache commiters ) ?
> >
> > -1
> >
> > I think it should just be a "these are some companies providing
> > commercial support for jakarta", and there should be no more ties than
> > that. Gets messy to quickly. The page should reflect (thinking of an
> > authority we all know) a search on google about "commercial support for
> > apache software", but sorted categorically/alphabetically rather than by
> > any kind of rank.
> >
> > There should be a note on the page probably mentioning that this is the
> > page its sole intention, and that companies can request addition if they
> > want (in the form of a patch, I'd say).
> >
> > > I think it would be fair and nice if projects would include such a page
> > > in the releases, maybe next to the list of commiters who wrote the code.
> >
> > That is, of course, up to individual projects. I'm not really in favor
> > of it (what if there's a new company providing support, giving a client
> > the distro, and not being listed on that page...too many possible
> > headaches).
> >
> > Sorry, Andy, no time for lunch for me today so no patch either...
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > - Leo
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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RE: [Actual Action Taken] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by James Mitchell <jm...@telocity.com>.
Alphabetical? Now that's just not fair!
JM
ZZZ Technologies Inc.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leo Simons [mailto:leosimons@apache.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 5:20 PM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: Re: [Actual Action Taken] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
>
>
> > Is this for any vendor who wants free ads,
>
> -1
>
> > or only for companies that
> > support Apache projects
>
> +1
>
> > ( and pay the salary for apache commiters ) ?
>
> -1
>
> I think it should just be a "these are some companies providing
> commercial support for jakarta", and there should be no more ties than
> that. Gets messy to quickly. The page should reflect (thinking of an
> authority we all know) a search on google about "commercial support for
> apache software", but sorted categorically/alphabetically rather than by
> any kind of rank.
>
> There should be a note on the page probably mentioning that this is the
> page its sole intention, and that companies can request addition if they
> want (in the form of a patch, I'd say).
>
> > I think it would be fair and nice if projects would include such a page
> > in the releases, maybe next to the list of commiters who wrote the code.
>
> That is, of course, up to individual projects. I'm not really in favor
> of it (what if there's a new company providing support, giving a client
> the distro, and not being listed on that page...too many possible
> headaches).
>
> Sorry, Andy, no time for lunch for me today so no patch either...
>
> cheers,
>
> - Leo
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
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Re: [Actual Action Taken] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
> Wouldn't be better for them to just use google's directory for that ( ==
> dmoz.org ) ?
>
> I have a slight preference for the companies that do actually contribute
> code/people - if they want to be listed on jakarta that's fine.
>
I've no preference. Go ahead and alter the page (via patch which I'll
apply or commit) to read this way if you like. If there isn't any
resistance in the next day or so I'll submit the corresponding patch to
the mail pointing people to this page and submitting patches to it as
opposed to posting advertisements to the list.
-Andy
>
> Costin
>
>
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structure
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Re: [Actual Action Taken] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by co...@covalent.net.
On 14 May 2002, Leo Simons wrote:
> > ( and pay the salary for apache commiters ) ?
>
> -1
>
> I think it should just be a "these are some companies providing
> commercial support for jakarta", and there should be no more ties than
> that. Gets messy to quickly. The page should reflect (thinking of an
> authority we all know) a search on google about "commercial support for
> apache software", but sorted categorically/alphabetically rather than by
> any kind of rank.
Wouldn't be better for them to just use google's directory for that ( ==
dmoz.org ) ?
I have a slight preference for the companies that do actually contribute
code/people - if they want to be listed on jakarta that's fine.
Costin
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Re: [Actual Action Taken] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
> Is this for any vendor who wants free ads,
-1
> or only for companies that
> support Apache projects
+1
> ( and pay the salary for apache commiters ) ?
-1
I think it should just be a "these are some companies providing
commercial support for jakarta", and there should be no more ties than
that. Gets messy to quickly. The page should reflect (thinking of an
authority we all know) a search on google about "commercial support for
apache software", but sorted categorically/alphabetically rather than by
any kind of rank.
There should be a note on the page probably mentioning that this is the
page its sole intention, and that companies can request addition if they
want (in the form of a patch, I'd say).
> I think it would be fair and nice if projects would include such a page
> in the releases, maybe next to the list of commiters who wrote the code.
That is, of course, up to individual projects. I'm not really in favor
of it (what if there's a new company providing support, giving a client
the distro, and not being listed on that page...too many possible
headaches).
Sorry, Andy, no time for lunch for me today so no patch either...
cheers,
- Leo
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Re: [Actual Action Taken] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by co...@covalent.net.
Is this for any vendor who wants free ads, or only for companies that
support Apache projects ( and pay the salary for apache commiters ) ?
I think it would be fair and nice if projects would include such a page
in the releases, maybe next to the list of commiters who wrote the code.
Costin
On 14 May 2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> Please see:
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/vendors.html
>
> If this is acceptable (this is the best I could do on my lunch break ;-)
> ) -- I'll go ahead and update the site and I'll supply a patch for
> mail.html that asks that folks don't post commercial ads to the mail
> lists rather supply a patch for the vendor page to be applied at
> jakarta-site2 committer discretion.
>
> If you have minor suggestions for this, please supply them in the form
> of commits or patches that correct any minor errors or improve things.
> I'm not interested in creating the "vendor superpage".
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Andy
>
> PS I realize www.superlinksoftware.com is down at the moment. Its
> undergoing upgrades. It'll be back up at the end of the week.
>
>
> On Mon, 2002-05-13 at 09:32, Henri Yandell wrote:
> > +1 from me.
> >
> > While it's nice to see committers who are able to commercially work with
> > the experience they gain/use here, it would be very demeaning to the list
> > for every company who are using jsp/servlets/other to post their
> > consultant services to the general list.
> >
> > Hen
> >
> > On 13 May 2002, Leo Simons wrote:
> >
> > > +1 to all of that.
> > >
> > > - Leo
> > >
> > > > Sun Micro, has a page of "here are Java companies" -- lets "innovate"
> > > > it and put up a similar Jakarta page -- Here are companies and folks who
> > > > support Apache Jakarta software. I volunteer. Secondly, lets Make a
> > > > rule NOT to post advertising to the mail lists, that is NOT what they
> > > > are there for.
> > > >
> > > > This does a few things:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Provides a good rationale to companies to use Apache Jakarta Software
> > > > (not a specific goal of the group but a personal goal of several people
> > > > here including myself as I like working with GOOD software)
> > > >
> > > > 2. Gives those companies a place to post thats relevant to Jakarta,
> > > > won't annoy people who might otherwise use them.
> > > >
> > > > 3. Give those companies a high visability web page to advertise on.
> > > >
> > > > 4. God I don't need more spam. My spam filter entries will one day
> > > > reach the limit on the number of strings I can match on.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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> >
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Re: [Actual Action Taken] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Morgan Delagrange wrote:
>--- "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
>>Please see:
>>
>>http://jakarta.apache.org/site/vendors.html
>>
>>If this is acceptable (this is the best I could do
>>on my lunch break ;-)
>>)
>>
>>
>
>Doesn't there need to be some legalese? Jakarta does
>not endorse those vendors; that should probably be
>noted.
>
>
IANAL
>>-- I'll go ahead and update the site and I'll
>>supply a patch for
>>mail.html that asks that folks don't post commercial
>>ads to the mail
>>lists rather supply a patch for the vendor page to
>>be applied at
>>jakarta-site2 committer discretion.
>>
>>
>
>So, if a committer is competing with another company,
>he can veto that company's patches? How is this
>governed, while still maintaining our integrity as a
>non-for-profit volunteer organization?
>
>
No, but if you send a patch for ASP development and its completely
irrelevant to jakarta and no one feels like committing it then *shrug*.
I'll commit patches for whomever no matter what they're doing as long
as its relevant to jakarta and I have time (read: I'm doing something I
actually feel like doing and there is a patch I'll apply it at the same
time).
I think this is preferrable to ads cross posted on the mail lists.
-Andy
>
>
>>If you have minor suggestions for this, please
>>supply them in the form
>>of commits or patches that correct any minor errors
>>or improve things.
>>I'm not interested in creating the "vendor
>>superpage".
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>-Andy
>>
>>PS I realize www.superlinksoftware.com is down at
>>the moment. Its
>>undergoing upgrades. It'll be back up at the end of
>>the week.
>>
>>
>>On Mon, 2002-05-13 at 09:32, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>
>>
>>>+1 from me.
>>>
>>>While it's nice to see committers who are able to
>>>
>>>
>>commercially work with
>>
>>
>>>the experience they gain/use here, it would be
>>>
>>>
>>very demeaning to the list
>>
>>
>>>for every company who are using jsp/servlets/other
>>>
>>>
>>to post their
>>
>>
>>>consultant services to the general list.
>>>
>>>Hen
>>>
>>>On 13 May 2002, Leo Simons wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>+1 to all of that.
>>>>
>>>>- Leo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Sun Micro, has a page of "here are Java
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>companies" -- lets "innovate"
>>
>>
>>>>>it and put up a similar Jakarta page -- Here
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>are companies and folks who
>>
>>
>>>>>support Apache Jakarta software. I volunteer.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>Secondly, lets Make a
>>
>>
>>>>>rule NOT to post advertising to the mail
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>lists, that is NOT what they
>>
>>
>>>>>are there for.
>>>>>
>>>>>This does a few things:
>>>>>
>>>>>1. Provides a good rationale to companies to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>use Apache Jakarta Software
>>
>>
>>>>>(not a specific goal of the group but a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>personal goal of several people
>>
>>
>>>>>here including myself as I like working with
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>GOOD software)
>>
>>
>>>>>2. Gives those companies a place to post thats
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>relevant to Jakarta,
>>
>>
>>>>>won't annoy people who might otherwise use
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>them.
>>
>>
>>>>>3. Give those companies a high visability web
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>page to advertise on.
>>
>>
>>>>>4. God I don't need more spam. My spam filter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>entries will one day
>>
>>
>>>>>reach the limit on the number of strings I can
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>match on.
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>>
>>>>
>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>>>For additional commands, e-mail:
>>>>
>>>>
>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>--
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>
>>>
>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>>For additional commands, e-mail:
>>>
>>>
>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>--
>>http://www.superlinksoftware.com - software
>>solutions for business
>>http://jakarta.apache.org/poi - Excel/Word/OLE 2
>>Compound Document in
>>Java
>>http://krysalis.sourceforge.net/centipede - the best
>>build/project
>>structure
>> a guy/gal could have! - Make Ant simple on
>>complex Projects!
>>The avalanche has already started. It is too late
>>for the pebbles to
>>vote.
>>-Ambassador Kosh
>>
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>For additional commands, e-mail:
>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>=====
>Morgan Delagrange
>http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs
>http://jakarta.apache.org/commons
>http://axion.tigris.org
>
>__________________________________________________
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Re: [Actual Action Taken] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Morgan Delagrange <md...@yahoo.com>.
--- "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> wrote:
> Please see:
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/vendors.html
>
> If this is acceptable (this is the best I could do
> on my lunch break ;-)
> )
Doesn't there need to be some legalese? Jakarta does
not endorse those vendors; that should probably be
noted.
> -- I'll go ahead and update the site and I'll
> supply a patch for
> mail.html that asks that folks don't post commercial
> ads to the mail
> lists rather supply a patch for the vendor page to
> be applied at
> jakarta-site2 committer discretion.
So, if a committer is competing with another company,
he can veto that company's patches? How is this
governed, while still maintaining our integrity as a
non-for-profit volunteer organization?
> If you have minor suggestions for this, please
> supply them in the form
> of commits or patches that correct any minor errors
> or improve things.
> I'm not interested in creating the "vendor
> superpage".
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Andy
>
> PS I realize www.superlinksoftware.com is down at
> the moment. Its
> undergoing upgrades. It'll be back up at the end of
> the week.
>
>
> On Mon, 2002-05-13 at 09:32, Henri Yandell wrote:
> > +1 from me.
> >
> > While it's nice to see committers who are able to
> commercially work with
> > the experience they gain/use here, it would be
> very demeaning to the list
> > for every company who are using jsp/servlets/other
> to post their
> > consultant services to the general list.
> >
> > Hen
> >
> > On 13 May 2002, Leo Simons wrote:
> >
> > > +1 to all of that.
> > >
> > > - Leo
> > >
> > > > Sun Micro, has a page of "here are Java
> companies" -- lets "innovate"
> > > > it and put up a similar Jakarta page -- Here
> are companies and folks who
> > > > support Apache Jakarta software. I volunteer.
> Secondly, lets Make a
> > > > rule NOT to post advertising to the mail
> lists, that is NOT what they
> > > > are there for.
> > > >
> > > > This does a few things:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Provides a good rationale to companies to
> use Apache Jakarta Software
> > > > (not a specific goal of the group but a
> personal goal of several people
> > > > here including myself as I like working with
> GOOD software)
> > > >
> > > > 2. Gives those companies a place to post thats
> relevant to Jakarta,
> > > > won't annoy people who might otherwise use
> them.
> > > >
> > > > 3. Give those companies a high visability web
> page to advertise on.
> > > >
> > > > 4. God I don't need more spam. My spam filter
> entries will one day
> > > > reach the limit on the number of strings I can
> match on.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
> --
> http://www.superlinksoftware.com - software
> solutions for business
> http://jakarta.apache.org/poi - Excel/Word/OLE 2
> Compound Document in
> Java
> http://krysalis.sourceforge.net/centipede - the best
> build/project
> structure
> a guy/gal could have! - Make Ant simple on
> complex Projects!
> The avalanche has already started. It is too late
> for the pebbles to
> vote.
> -Ambassador Kosh
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
=====
Morgan Delagrange
http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons
http://axion.tigris.org
__________________________________________________
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[Actual Action Taken] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Please see:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/vendors.html
If this is acceptable (this is the best I could do on my lunch break ;-)
) -- I'll go ahead and update the site and I'll supply a patch for
mail.html that asks that folks don't post commercial ads to the mail
lists rather supply a patch for the vendor page to be applied at
jakarta-site2 committer discretion.
If you have minor suggestions for this, please supply them in the form
of commits or patches that correct any minor errors or improve things.
I'm not interested in creating the "vendor superpage".
Thanks,
-Andy
PS I realize www.superlinksoftware.com is down at the moment. Its
undergoing upgrades. It'll be back up at the end of the week.
On Mon, 2002-05-13 at 09:32, Henri Yandell wrote:
> +1 from me.
>
> While it's nice to see committers who are able to commercially work with
> the experience they gain/use here, it would be very demeaning to the list
> for every company who are using jsp/servlets/other to post their
> consultant services to the general list.
>
> Hen
>
> On 13 May 2002, Leo Simons wrote:
>
> > +1 to all of that.
> >
> > - Leo
> >
> > > Sun Micro, has a page of "here are Java companies" -- lets "innovate"
> > > it and put up a similar Jakarta page -- Here are companies and folks who
> > > support Apache Jakarta software. I volunteer. Secondly, lets Make a
> > > rule NOT to post advertising to the mail lists, that is NOT what they
> > > are there for.
> > >
> > > This does a few things:
> > >
> > > 1. Provides a good rationale to companies to use Apache Jakarta Software
> > > (not a specific goal of the group but a personal goal of several people
> > > here including myself as I like working with GOOD software)
> > >
> > > 2. Gives those companies a place to post thats relevant to Jakarta,
> > > won't annoy people who might otherwise use them.
> > >
> > > 3. Give those companies a high visability web page to advertise on.
> > >
> > > 4. God I don't need more spam. My spam filter entries will one day
> > > reach the limit on the number of strings I can match on.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
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>
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Java
http://krysalis.sourceforge.net/centipede - the best build/project
structure
a guy/gal could have! - Make Ant simple on complex Projects!
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to
vote.
-Ambassador Kosh
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
+1 from me.
While it's nice to see committers who are able to commercially work with
the experience they gain/use here, it would be very demeaning to the list
for every company who are using jsp/servlets/other to post their
consultant services to the general list.
Hen
On 13 May 2002, Leo Simons wrote:
> +1 to all of that.
>
> - Leo
>
> > Sun Micro, has a page of "here are Java companies" -- lets "innovate"
> > it and put up a similar Jakarta page -- Here are companies and folks who
> > support Apache Jakarta software. I volunteer. Secondly, lets Make a
> > rule NOT to post advertising to the mail lists, that is NOT what they
> > are there for.
> >
> > This does a few things:
> >
> > 1. Provides a good rationale to companies to use Apache Jakarta Software
> > (not a specific goal of the group but a personal goal of several people
> > here including myself as I like working with GOOD software)
> >
> > 2. Gives those companies a place to post thats relevant to Jakarta,
> > won't annoy people who might otherwise use them.
> >
> > 3. Give those companies a high visability web page to advertise on.
> >
> > 4. God I don't need more spam. My spam filter entries will one day
> > reach the limit on the number of strings I can match on.
>
>
>
> --
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>
>
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Leo Simons <ls...@multimia.com>.
+1 to all of that.
- Leo
> Sun Micro, has a page of "here are Java companies" -- lets "innovate"
> it and put up a similar Jakarta page -- Here are companies and folks who
> support Apache Jakarta software. I volunteer. Secondly, lets Make a
> rule NOT to post advertising to the mail lists, that is NOT what they
> are there for.
>
> This does a few things:
>
> 1. Provides a good rationale to companies to use Apache Jakarta Software
> (not a specific goal of the group but a personal goal of several people
> here including myself as I like working with GOOD software)
>
> 2. Gives those companies a place to post thats relevant to Jakarta,
> won't annoy people who might otherwise use them.
>
> 3. Give those companies a high visability web page to advertise on.
>
> 4. God I don't need more spam. My spam filter entries will one day
> reach the limit on the number of strings I can match on.
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
God yes, I need more spam! Especially targeted spam. Can we make sure
those [ADV] Mobutu in South Africa wants to send you 10,000,000 for safe
keeping get through to the lists? Well at least if Mobutu agrees to
support Apache software as well as send me 10mil?
Sun Micro, has a page of "here are Java companies" -- lets "innovate"
it and put up a similar Jakarta page -- Here are companies and folks who
support Apache Jakarta software. I volunteer. Secondly, lets Make a
rule NOT to post advertising to the mail lists, that is NOT what they
are there for.
This does a few things:
1. Provides a good rationale to companies to use Apache Jakarta Software
(not a specific goal of the group but a personal goal of several people
here including myself as I like working with GOOD software)
2. Gives those companies a place to post thats relevant to Jakarta,
won't annoy people who might otherwise use them.
3. Give those companies a high visability web page to advertise on.
4. God I don't need more spam. My spam filter entries will one day
reach the limit on the number of strings I can match on.
-Andy
Jeff Turner wrote:
>On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 02:04:20PM +0200, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>..
>
>
>>>Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for
>>>adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements.
>>>
>>>
>>I've noticed too that the annoumcement list stuff gets CCd to other lists.
>>
>>How about having all content sent to that list be automatically CCd to
>>general lists with [ANN]?
>>
>>
>
>To spell out this idea: any mail that gets sent to announcements@jakarta
>is forwarded to general@ with "[ANN]" prepended to it's subject
>(possibly stripping any existing [ANN] variants).
>
>Same with adverts@jakarta..
>
>That's kinda nice. In addition to munging the subject line, it could add
>an X-Jakarta-Announce: or X-Jakarta-Advert: header, which people could
>filter on.
>
>All assuming that people *want* Jakarta-related adverts and
>announcements on general@. I get the impression that some do, a few
>don't, and most don't care.
>
>
>--Jeff
>
>
>
>>This way if one wants only announcements, he can subscribe to that list,
>>while other users get the ANN topics automatically.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>This could be done also with an adv@jakarta.apache.org list, and [ADV] as
>>Jeff suggests.
>>Another result of this is having separate mail history for these lists.
>>
>>--
>>Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
>> - verba volant, scripta manent -
>> (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
>>
>>
>>
>
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>
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@socialchange.net.au>.
On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 02:04:20PM +0200, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
..
> > Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for
> > adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements.
>
> I've noticed too that the annoumcement list stuff gets CCd to other lists.
>
> How about having all content sent to that list be automatically CCd to
> general lists with [ANN]?
To spell out this idea: any mail that gets sent to announcements@jakarta
is forwarded to general@ with "[ANN]" prepended to it's subject
(possibly stripping any existing [ANN] variants).
Same with adverts@jakarta..
That's kinda nice. In addition to munging the subject line, it could add
an X-Jakarta-Announce: or X-Jakarta-Advert: header, which people could
filter on.
All assuming that people *want* Jakarta-related adverts and
announcements on general@. I get the impression that some do, a few
don't, and most don't care.
--Jeff
> This way if one wants only announcements, he can subscribe to that list,
> while other users get the ANN topics automatically.
> This could be done also with an adv@jakarta.apache.org list, and [ADV] as
> Jeff suggests.
> Another result of this is having separate mail history for these lists.
>
> --
> Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
> - verba volant, scripta manent -
> (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
>
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
From: "Jeff Turner" <je...@socialchange.net.au>
> On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 09:54:48AM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote:
> > At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> > >I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that
> > >support
> > >Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done.
> >
> > I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and
> > other OSS software.
> >
> > I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to setup a
top
> > level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise oneself, one's
> > company, or to advertise that you need support.
>
> I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and
> everyone still cc's announcements to general@.
>
> Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for
> adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements.
I've noticed too that the annoumcement list stuff gets CCd to other lists.
How about having all content sent to that list be automatically CCd to
general lists with [ANN]?
This way if one wants only announcements, he can subscribe to that list,
while other users get the ANN topics automatically.
This could be done also with an adv@jakarta.apache.org list, and [ADV] as
Jeff suggests.
Another result of this is having separate mail history for these lists.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@socialchange.net.au>.
On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 09:54:48AM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote:
> At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> >I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that
> >support
> >Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done.
>
> I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and
> other OSS software.
>
> I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to setup a top
> level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise oneself, one's
> company, or to advertise that you need support.
I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and
everyone still cc's announcements to general@.
Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for
adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements.
--Jeff
> I'm not a committer on any projects so can anyone else try to get this
> going? It shouldn't be too hard.
>
> Alex
>
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Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Alex McLintock <al...@OWAL.co.uk>.
At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that support
>Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done.
I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and
other OSS software.
I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to setup a top
level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise oneself, one's
company, or to advertise that you need support.
I'm not a committer on any projects so can anyone else try to get this
going? It shouldn't be too hard.
Alex
Openweb Analysts Ltd, London: Software For Complex Websites
http://www.OWAL.co.uk/
Free Consultancy for London Companies thinking of Open Source Software.
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Advertisement using Apache lists
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
In these days I've seen messages from dion@multitask.com.au advertising
commercial support for Apache software on this list
(http://www.multitask.com.au/default.html?page=mtSOS) and on individual
project lists
http://sos.multitask.com.au/QuickPlace/sos/main.nsf/h_Toc/07633801fb8c6459ca
256bb3001722b1/?OpenDocument .
I think that this is a very nice thing, since IMHO commercial support is
vital for Apache software.
I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that support
Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done.
Are there any special guidelines on this?
Are there any suggestions on this topic?
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- verba volant, scripta manent -
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Re: Project Activity
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Agreed!
Danny Angus wrote:
>Sometimes lists are where the activity is, commits alone don't credit the
>essential design and planning effort put in by users commiters and
>non-commiters that shapes the product and maps its progress.
>
>d.
>
>
>
>>This makes me think of all the projects on SourceForge that shoot up
>>high into the project ratings, with a high activity percentile, just
>>because they turn the news function into a message board.
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Project Activity
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
From: "Peter Donald" <pe...@apache.org>
On Mon, 13 May 2002 20:17, Danny Angus wrote:
> > Sometimes lists are where the activity is, commits alone don't credit
the
> > essential design and planning effort put in by users commiters and
> > non-commiters that shapes the product and maps its progress.
>
> Agreed - even worse. Sometimes after these activity meters turn up you get
> committers breaking up one commit into many commits, presumably to push
their
> activity level up. You also get the many typographic changes for much the
> same reason.
This is exactly what has happened to turbine-maven just after the statistics
were made.
Many commits without description and many cosmetic changes.
Measuring how well a project is doing with these stats is nonsense.
There is no semantics in numbers.
Say you are having tons of letters from angry users that claim that your
product sucks.
Is the number of posts still a health indicator?
Maybe of the mailing list software ;-)
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Re: Project Activity
Posted by co...@covalent.net.
On Mon, 13 May 2002, Peter Donald wrote:
> On Mon, 13 May 2002 20:17, Danny Angus wrote:
> > Sometimes lists are where the activity is, commits alone don't credit the
> > essential design and planning effort put in by users commiters and
> > non-commiters that shapes the product and maps its progress.
>
> Agreed - even worse. Sometimes after these activity meters turn up you get
> committers breaking up one commit into many commits, presumably to push their
> activity level up. You also get the many typographic changes for much the
> same reason.
Breaking one big commit into many commits is not bad.
It makes things easier to review, the commit comment can describe much
better what has been done in the file.
Putting a 'ranking' on commiter's activity is however very bad.
Some are working full time ( as part of their job ), some are using
the little free time they find ( or sleep less ). I think the
second category deserves a lot of apreciation, even if they may have
fewer commits.
Costin
> I have found that higher healthy activity is actually indicated by small
> localized changes. This is not going to be captured in a simple count the
> commits and note the committer style approach.
>
>
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Re: Project Activity
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 13 May 2002 20:17, Danny Angus wrote:
> Sometimes lists are where the activity is, commits alone don't credit the
> essential design and planning effort put in by users commiters and
> non-commiters that shapes the product and maps its progress.
Agreed - even worse. Sometimes after these activity meters turn up you get
committers breaking up one commit into many commits, presumably to push their
activity level up. You also get the many typographic changes for much the
same reason.
I have found that higher healthy activity is actually indicated by small
localized changes. This is not going to be captured in a simple count the
commits and note the committer style approach.
--
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Peter Donald
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RE: Project Activity
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@thought.co.uk>.
Sometimes lists are where the activity is, commits alone don't credit the
essential design and planning effort put in by users commiters and
non-commiters that shapes the product and maps its progress.
d.
> This makes me think of all the projects on SourceForge that shoot up
> high into the project ratings, with a high activity percentile, just
> because they turn the news function into a message board.
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Re: Project Activity
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
This makes me think of all the projects on SourceForge that shoot up
high into the project ratings, with a high activity percentile, just
because they turn the news function into a message board.
If I were to move code from src/java to src/foo, that's quite a few
commits.
You written your 1000 lines today? :D
- Leo
On Sat, 2002-05-11 at 17:07, dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
> Back in mid March there was a discussion around the jakarta overview (
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/overview.html ) and what / wasn't a good
> measure of project activity. My comment back then was commits on a project
> are a good indicator.
>
> So anyway, I've added this reporting into the cvs head of maven. For a
> sample, see: http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/maven-reports.html
>
> In particular the change log, developer activity and file activity.
> --
> dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
> Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
> Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
>
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Re: Project Activity
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
I think that's pretty cool functionality. I don't agree with your way
of judging project activity.. Thats like trying to put a metric on how
blue the sky is today. I'm sure you could but what of the day where
your metric says its grey but I'm looking up and seeing blue (perhaps
because a grey day in June would look blue in January). Its all
subjective. I don't believe in software engineering anymore.
-Andy
On Sat, 2002-05-11 at 11:07, dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
> Back in mid March there was a discussion around the jakarta overview (
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/overview.html ) and what / wasn't a good
> measure of project activity. My comment back then was commits on a project
> are a good indicator.
>
> So anyway, I've added this reporting into the cvs head of maven. For a
> sample, see: http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/maven-reports.html
>
> In particular the change log, developer activity and file activity.
> --
> dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
> Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
> Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
>
> --
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>
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Re: Project Activity
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
I think this might be what you mean by file activity, but might not.
Aren't there two types of project activity. Developer activity and user
activity. Having no developer activity is not a bad sign if there is high
user activity, ie) sign of a solid/stable piece of code.
Now I don't know of any like that, but maybe it's just lack of looking :)
On Sun, 12 May 2002 dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
> Back in mid March there was a discussion around the jakarta overview (
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/overview.html ) and what / wasn't a good
> measure of project activity. My comment back then was commits on a project
> are a good indicator.
>
> So anyway, I've added this reporting into the cvs head of maven. For a
> sample, see: http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/maven-reports.html
>
> In particular the change log, developer activity and file activity.
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