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Posted to dev@httpd.apache.org by "Ralf S. Engelschall" <rs...@engelschall.com> on 1998/08/03 15:03:04 UTC
[ANNOUNCE] Apache Module Contrib
A few months ago when I built the APXS tool, one of my goals were to provide a
better way for third-party module authors to incorporate their modules in an
already installed Apache. In other words: Compile modules _OUTSIDE_ the
Apache source tree.
Although already started some time ago, I've now mostly finished my idea of an
Apache Module Contribution containing some popular third-party modules. I've
grabbed together some of the modules I use often myself on webservers I manage
and ported them to the latest Apache 1.3 track. Additionally I've created a
little Makefile hierarchy which now can be used to build and install these
modules.
I've rolled a first tarball as apache-contrib-1.0.0.tar.gz and placed it under
ftp://ftp.apache.org/apache/dist/contrib/modules/ . I've you have any
suggestions let it me know. It's not an great thing, but already provides a
nice and easy way to add a bunch of popular third-party modules. Perhaps we
can extend it with other modules in the future...
Ralf S. Engelschall
rse@engelschall.com
www.engelschall.com
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Apache Module Contrib
Posted by Rodent of Unusual Size <Ke...@Golux.Com>.
Ralf S. Engelschall wrote:
>
> Perhaps we can extend it with other modules in the future...
As ben said, not in the CVS tree, obviously, nor in the tarballs
we distribute. However, this might be a good seed to plant in
the 'Apache Ports' project plot..
#ken P-)}
Ken Coar <http://Web.Golux.Com/coar/>
Apache Group member <http://www.apache.org/>
"Apache Server for Dummies" <http://Web.Golux.Com/coar/ASFD/>
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Apache Module Contrib
Posted by Rodent of Unusual Size <Ke...@Golux.Com>.
David Southwell wrote:
>
> On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Ben Hyde wrote:
> >
> > I'd prefer not to have any third party modules distributed from
> > www.apache.org since that implies something to users that we can't
> > control.
>
> Can I please differ - I would quite like a third party area and I do
> not think it need imply anything in particular other than it being a
> collection of resources.
A 3P area is certainly possible - but I agree with ben that it
shouldn't be on the www.apache.org site. Possibly from a
contrib.apache.org, or something on modules.apache.org, but
www.apache.org should be solely for the HTTP server itself.
Pointers to other locations there should be fine.
> - I would suggest that it be clearly labelled as being
> separately maintained.
Labeling doesn't work reliably, as I and others have pointed out
to you. It needs to be in a clearly separate container, not in a
subsection of the main one.
> I would be willing to hemp manage it within a n agreed set of
> guidelines
'He who proposes, disposes.' :-) Draft up what you, as a 3P person,
think are reasonable guidelines. We should be able to hammer out some
sort of compromise.
#ken P-)}
Ken Coar <http://Web.Golux.Com/coar/>
Apache Group member <http://www.apache.org/>
"Apache Server for Dummies" <http://Web.Golux.Com/coar/ASFD/>
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Apache Module Contrib
Posted by David Southwell <da...@cyberc.demon.co.uk>.
On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Ben Hyde wrote:
>
> I'd prefer not to have any third party modules distributed from
> www.apache.org since that implies something to users that we can't
> control.
Can I please differ - I would quite like a third party area and I do not
think it need imply anything in particular other than it being a
collection of resources.
I think it would be extremelky useful and encourage people working
together on stuff - I would suggest that it be clearly labelled as being
separately maintained. (you could even have it as a third party link with
a different URL if you like ;-) --
I would be willing to hemp manage it within a n agreed set of guidelines
(see posting 3rd party stuff of last week)
david
David Southwell
Chairman
CyberCity Ltd (European agents for CyberCity Inc. BVI)
+44 117 955 8225 CyberCity Technology in Europe
BCDP Technology ++Beyond the Corporate Doorway Processing Solutions++
[ANNOUNCE] Apache Module Contrib
Posted by Ben Hyde <bh...@pobox.com>.
Ralf S. Engelschall writes:
...
> Apache Module Contribution containing some popular third-party modules. I've
...
> ftp://ftp.apache.org/apache/dist/contrib/modules/ . I've you have any
...
Some examples of how to build modules outside the main server source
tree is a very good thing, and maybe we could move toward getting some
of the currently modules packaged in that way.
It will be a mess if the group tries to get into the biz. of rating
third party modules with some "seal of approval."
The current frame work, i.e. modules.apache.org, that acts only as
a registry is a good thing.
I'd prefer not to have any third party modules distributed from
www.apache.org since that implies something to users that we can't
control.
- ben hyde
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Apache Module Contrib
Posted by David Southwell <da...@cyberc.demon.co.uk>.
On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Ralf S. Engelschall wrote:
>
> A few months ago when I built the APXS tool, one of my goals were to provide a
> better way for third-party module authors to incorporate their modules in an
> already installed Apache. In other words: Compile modules _OUTSIDE_ the
> Apache source tree.
>
> I've rolled a first tarball as apache-contrib-1.0.0.tar.gz and placed it under
> ftp://ftp.apache.org/apache/dist/contrib/modules/ . I've you have any
Nice one
I`ll take a look
david
David Southwell
Chairman
CyberCity Ltd (European agents for CyberCity Inc. BVI)
+44 117 955 8225 CyberCity Technology in Europe
BCDP Technology ++Beyond the Corporate Doorway Processing Solutions++
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Apache Module Contrib
Posted by Rodent of Unusual Size <Ke...@Golux.Com>.
Dean Gaudet wrote:
>
> +1 for better contrib maintenance
:-)
> +1 for contrib living on www.apache.org (it will have a large set of
> mirrors already running for it)
Mmm. After the complaints from them about the size of the .Z files
over the last many months, they may not be happy about an enlarged
contrib area. But tough -- we have enough mirrors that if some
drop out we should still be in good shape. If taz's bandwidth
can support it, of course.
> +1 for including non-free stuff
>
> +1 for splitting non-free stuff into a non-free hierarchy (see
> ftp.redhat.com for example, they have a non-free hierarchy)
All right, I withdraw my objections and change to -0.
I don't like it, but I'll go along with it.
#ken P-)}
Ken Coar <http://Web.Golux.Com/coar/>
Apache Group member <http://www.apache.org/>
"Apache Server for Dummies" <http://Web.Golux.Com/coar/ASFD/>
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Apache Module Contrib
Posted by Ben Hyde <bh...@pobox.com>.
Marc Slemko writes:
> On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Ben Hyde wrote:
>
> > Marc Slemko writes:
> > > On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Dean Gaudet wrote:
> > ...
> > > > +1 for splitting non-free stuff into a non-free hierarchy (see
> > > > ftp.redhat.com for example, they have a non-free hierarchy)
> > > I do _not_ like this splitting out.
> > +0 agree with Marc.
>
> And, of course, just to reinforce: this doesn't mean things can't be
> labelled as free, non-free, idiot-of-an-author, etc.
>
> > The FreeBSD system has slightly larger stubs on the end user's machine
>
> The FreeBSD ports system is far easier in a lot of ways because it has to
> work on one platform, and if something isn't there on that platform you
> can just put it there.
This is the nub of what would be fresh design in this system.
> I'm thinking we will eitherh ave to go for doing the whole thing in C, or
> requiring perl5. Requiring perl5 doesn't sound too bad to me.
Agreed, or possibly a little custom something might be more fun
for who ever does the work.
> > than we would need. We can, and ought to, presume a
> > connection to the web.
>
> No. I see no need for this. ... That is the way the FreeBSD ports
> system works; if it can't grab a file, it says "hey buddy, I can't get
> this! If you can, put it in directory xxx for me."
I attracted to the thought that the distributed part might consist of
little more than a table of [contribution, checksum, sources] plus
harness that handles it. Nice to keep the distribution small. I
guess that doesn't preclude the "hey buddy" exception handler.
- ben
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Apache Module Contrib
Posted by Marc Slemko <ma...@znep.com>.
On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Ben Hyde wrote:
> Marc Slemko writes:
> > On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Dean Gaudet wrote:
> ...
> > > +1 for splitting non-free stuff into a non-free hierarchy (see
> > > ftp.redhat.com for example, they have a non-free hierarchy)
> > I do _not_ like this splitting out.
> +0 agree with Marc.
And, of course, just to reinforce: this doesn't mean things can't be
labelled as free, non-free, idiot-of-an-author, etc.
> The FreeBSD system has slightly larger stubs on the end user's machine
The FreeBSD ports system is far easier in a lot of ways because it has to
work on one platform, and if something isn't there on that platform you
can just put it there.
I'm thinking we will eitherh ave to go for doing the whole thing in C, or
requiring perl5. Requiring perl5 doesn't sound too bad to me.
> than we would need. We can, and ought to, presume a
> connection to the web.
No. I see no need for this. That can be the _normal_ way of doing
things, eg. get the metadata, tell it to build, it tries to grab the
source or whatever it needs. However, there is no reason why we have to
require web access. If the user can get the files required some other
way, they should be able to do that. That is the way the FreeBSD ports
system works; if it can't grab a file, it says "hey buddy, I can't get
this! If you can, put it in directory xxx for me."
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Apache Module Contrib
Posted by Ben Hyde <bh...@pobox.com>.
Marc Slemko writes:
> On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Dean Gaudet wrote:
...
> > +1 for splitting non-free stuff into a non-free hierarchy (see
> > ftp.redhat.com for example, they have a non-free hierarchy)
> I do _not_ like this splitting out.
+0 agree with Marc.
> ... something very
> similar to the FreeBSD ports; do not actually have the software be part of
> the "port" as such, but have the port be strictly metadata required for
> installation, with a reference to the source or binary.
+1
The FreeBSD ports design is such a delight!
> What this does is make the ports system into a very lightweight thing that
> doesn't require a huge amount of overhead for every port. Once the
> framework gets going, lots of people will contribute, authors will make an
> "apache package" as a defacto part of their software, etc.
+1
Did I mention that FreeBSD ports is a delight?
> ... We also don't necessarily want to do
> packages either; packages are binary builds of the ports. The reason for
> this, obviously, is that FreeBSD has one platform to build packages for we
> have two zillion, nine hundred billion, sixty million, six thousand and
> forty one.
+1
> OTOH, if we decided we wanted vendors to donate access to machines or
> donate machines, then it wouldn't be too hard to automatically build them
> without much hassle.
that would be another project for another day... :-).
The FreeBSD system has slightly larger stubs on the end user's machine
than we would need. We can, and ought to, presume a
connection to the web.
Free: A quick overview of the FreeBSD ports system...
- /usr/ports is the root of a shallow tree sorted
by catagories, i.e. /usr/ports/lang/eiffel
- A hierarchy of HTML embedded in this hierarchy
documents what's what with one line and 100 word
descriptions per leaf node
- If you desire one of these ports you stand in the
directory and type make. That
- recursively builds any ports this one requires.
- fetchs the tar file from one of N places
- checks a checksum stored locally.
- builds, maybe tests it,
- then maybe you type install (as root).
- whereis <foo>
knows about everything in the ports community
- throwing away and enumerating what you've got is
similarly easy.
- ben
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Apache Module Contrib
Posted by Dean Gaudet <dg...@arctic.org>.
+1 for better contrib maintenance
+1 for contrib living on www.apache.org (it will have a large set of
mirrors already running for it)
+1 for including non-free stuff
+1 for splitting non-free stuff into a non-free hierarchy (see
ftp.redhat.com for example, they have a non-free hierarchy)
Dean