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Posted to java-dev@axis.apache.org by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> on 2008/10/27 00:29:17 UTC
[DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Folks,
There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
thanks,
dims
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
> Folks,
>
> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>
> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>
I really think that it is good idea to make Axis2 as TLP, the main
reason behind that is the visibility. Because if we make Axis2 a TLP it
will have better visibility than what we have now. Second other Axis2
related project like Sandesha , Rampart will also get much more
visibility from that.
-Deepal
> thanks,
> dims
>
>
--
Thank you!
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com>.
Kurt T Stam wrote:
> jUDDI has 3 active developers working on implementing the UDDIv3 spec
> (http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/webservices/juddi/branches/v3_trunk/)
> . Please don't talk about moth-balling us!
Just checking to see if you were paying attention. :)
No way, Kurt - I hope to be using your stuff!
Just to stave off concerns - we need to do a general review of the
subprojects, but we will NOT drop actively developed codebases into the
void.
--Glen
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com>.
Kurt T Stam wrote:
> jUDDI has 3 active developers working on implementing the UDDIv3 spec
> (http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/webservices/juddi/branches/v3_trunk/)
> . Please don't talk about moth-balling us!
Just checking to see if you were paying attention. :)
No way, Kurt - I hope to be using your stuff!
Just to stave off concerns - we need to do a general review of the
subprojects, but we will NOT drop actively developed codebases into the
void.
--Glen
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Kurt T Stam <ku...@gmail.com>.
Glen Daniels wrote:
> Hi dims, all:
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>> For a few years now, there is a growing consensus at the board level
>> that a small focused PMC that directly reports to the board is better
>> than a huge umbrella PMCs. two umbrella PMC's have already made
>> transitions including XML and Jakarta.
>
> +1. As PMC chair, I've definitely had a challenging time keeping up
> with everything going on in all the subprojects, and from a purely
> practical point of view, the board reports each quarter are pretty
> darn long.
>
>> One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer
>> set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues
>> and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge
>> umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived
>> after it left the fold.
>
> +1
>
>> Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release
>> schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s).
>> Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job?
>
> Point taken.
>
>> We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that.
>> A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a
>> good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to
>> go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP.
>
> I agree.
>
>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>> that as well with this proposal.
>
> Well said! This was an excellent note, dims.
>
> I also very much believe that an Axis2 TLP will help get us focused on
> moving forward.
>
>> fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go
>> TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people
>> involved there or we end up moth-balling them.
>
> Well, yeah - they're certainly not TLP-capable, but as they're already
> subprojects I'd like to put off the decision to moth-ball them for a
> while as long as there is at least one person dedicated to working on
> them... hence the proposal to keep these guys under WS.
jUDDI has 3 active developers working on implementing the UDDIv3 spec
(http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/webservices/juddi/branches/v3_trunk/)
. Please don't talk about moth-balling us!
>
> Thanks,
> --Glen
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
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>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Eran,
1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything
that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP.
2. IMHO, Any existing committers who would like to join the new TLP
can join as committers and be on the PMC as well.
3. I was going to nominate Deepal as TLP Chair. (Believe me, i can't
take the politics / crap anymore!)
4. Glen would continue to either moth ball projects in WS or spin them
off as TLP's. This role was done by Henri in Jakarta.
5. All the Devs can continue on WS projects if they choose to...see
#1, they need be active only the new TLP if they are working on / with
Axis2 related projects.
thanks,
dims
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:04 AM, Eran Chinthaka
<er...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hope I'm still not late to comment on this.
>
> I'm also with Sanjiva on this issue. Axis2 is just not Axis2 project alone.
> Axiom and others are integral parts of it. Couple of challenges/questions
> from me.
>
> 1. Let's take the Glen's proposal on two projects and list down the
> developers in each project. Do you see any difference in those lists? So
> Dims your argument, "If we can find people to man the PMC's and act as
> chair, sure, let's get more projects as TLP's"., will that hold?
> 2. If people can remember how the PMC nominations were it sounded like "Mr X
> was active on Axis2, Axiom, XmlSchema, etc.,". I think most of PMC members
> comes under that definition.
>
> Aggregating above two comments, will Dims argument of small teams still
> hold?
>
> 3. Will Glen as a chair will gain anything? Yes, he might have to ask for
> fewer reports and his report will be shorter. But will this change after the
> proposed changes, from board point of view?
>
> 4. If there is a vote for this, is it the simple majority who wins?
>
> The only differences I see in this
>
> 1. One more person will get to be a PMC chair (whoever sends highest number
> of mails for this separation should get this position :D. So its not me ;) )
> 2. All the other devs will have the luxury of being in two different PMCs
> (Yey !!)
> 3. We will have two guys preparing the same report, which was used to be
> prepared by a single person.
>
> So is it worth doing this? I'm extremely sorry if I'm missing something, but
> still I can not see a compelling argument to move on to a new TLP.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Chinthaka
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 7:20 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Anything that is usable/shipped with Axis2 or depends on Axis2 IMHO.
>>
>> -- dims
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>> > So Glen, if we're talking about a new TLP what are the proposed
>> > components
>> > under it? What will remain in the ws TLP because they don't have enough
>> > ammo
>> > to be a TLP?
>> >
>> > Sanjiva.
>> >
>> > Glen Daniels wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi dims, all:
>> >>
>> >> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> For a few years now, there is a growing consensus at the board level
>> >>> that a small focused PMC that directly reports to the board is better
>> >>> than a huge umbrella PMCs. two umbrella PMC's have already made
>> >>> transitions including XML and Jakarta.
>> >>
>> >> +1. As PMC chair, I've definitely had a challenging time keeping up
>> >> with
>> >> everything going on in all the subprojects, and from a purely practical
>> >> point of view, the board reports each quarter are pretty darn long.
>> >>
>> >>> One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer
>> >>> set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues
>> >>> and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge
>> >>> umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived
>> >>> after it left the fold.
>> >>
>> >> +1
>> >>
>> >>> Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release
>> >>> schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s).
>> >>> Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job?
>> >>
>> >> Point taken.
>> >>
>> >>> We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that.
>> >>> A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a
>> >>> good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to
>> >>> go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP.
>> >>
>> >> I agree.
>> >>
>> >>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>> >>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>> >>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>> >>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>> >>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>> >>> that as well with this proposal.
>> >>
>> >> Well said! This was an excellent note, dims.
>> >>
>> >> I also very much believe that an Axis2 TLP will help get us focused on
>> >> moving forward.
>> >>
>> >>> fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go
>> >>> TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people
>> >>> involved there or we end up moth-balling them.
>> >>
>> >> Well, yeah - they're certainly not TLP-capable, but as they're already
>> >> subprojects I'd like to put off the decision to moth-ball them for a
>> >> while
>> >> as long as there is at least one person dedicated to working on them...
>> >> hence the proposal to keep these guys under WS.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> --Glen
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>> > Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>> > Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> > Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>> >
>> > Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> With Mettha,
> Eran Chinthaka
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Health is the greatest gift; contentment is the greatest wealth; trusting is
> the best relationship; nirvana is the highest joy. - Dhammapada
>
--
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
Eran Chinthaka wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 7:33 PM, Deepal jayasinghe <deepalk@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> It is nice to see everyone is fighting for something good :-) ,
>
> Well first I do not think anyone in this mailing list is so stupid to
> give the PMC Chair or whatever based on the number of emails he
> sends to
> the list.
>
>
> Hey man, calm down. It was a joke. Don't take things personal ;)
Do you think I am not calm down ? 8-)
Why should I take it personally and I think I was smart enough to
understand what did you mean by that mail ;-) .
As I know no one in this take anything personally , we all act as a
community.
>
>
> Let me tell why I think it is a good idea to make Axis2 a TLP.
>
> First if you go back and look at the history why we wanted to make a
> Synapse a TLP ? (while it is heavily depend on Axis2 and Axiom ).
> But no
> one raised their concerns on dependent projects , simply no one talk
> anything like these their ,we as a community saw the advantages of
> making a synapse a TLP so we did that. As far as I understand
> from this
> thread , we should not have made synapse TLP , rather we should have
> created a new TLP called ESB and move synapse and other apache ESB
> projects into that. But we did not do that , why ? , To answer that
> just go and see the increase in number of download , and see the
> number
> of users. That is just two thing I see after making Synapse as
> TLP. I am
> happy I also +1 for making Synapse a TLP and it was a good decision.
> Actually I wanted to make Axis2 a TLP at the same time frame (when
> Dims
> was WS PMC chair).
>
>
> Can't you see a difference between Synapse vs Axis2 and Axis2 vs Axiom
> + Neethi + Sandesha?
Well , As we all know Axis2 is the core of Synapse , if we look at in
abstract manner Synapse is a just a module in Axis2 (.mar). Well they
have add a number of additional features , thats a separate discussion ,
but Axis2 is the core. If we talk about Axis2 and Axiom , it is the same
story , Axis2 can not live without Axiom. Anything in Axis2 is Axiom (I
mean any messages )
>
> Dims, I'm sorry for not reading your suggestion properly. I was
> keeping Glen's suggestion in mind.
>
--
Thank you!
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Eran Chinthaka <er...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 7:33 PM, Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>wrote:
> It is nice to see everyone is fighting for something good :-) ,
>
> Well first I do not think anyone in this mailing list is so stupid to
> give the PMC Chair or whatever based on the number of emails he sends to
> the list.
Hey man, calm down. It was a joke. Don't take things personal ;)
> Let me tell why I think it is a good idea to make Axis2 a TLP.
>
> First if you go back and look at the history why we wanted to make a
> Synapse a TLP ? (while it is heavily depend on Axis2 and Axiom ). But no
> one raised their concerns on dependent projects , simply no one talk
> anything like these their ,we as a community saw the advantages of
> making a synapse a TLP so we did that. As far as I understand from this
> thread , we should not have made synapse TLP , rather we should have
> created a new TLP called ESB and move synapse and other apache ESB
> projects into that. But we did not do that , why ? , To answer that
> just go and see the increase in number of download , and see the number
> of users. That is just two thing I see after making Synapse as TLP. I am
> happy I also +1 for making Synapse a TLP and it was a good decision.
> Actually I wanted to make Axis2 a TLP at the same time frame (when Dims
> was WS PMC chair).
Can't you see a difference between Synapse vs Axis2 and Axis2 vs Axiom +
Neethi + Sandesha?
Dims, I'm sorry for not reading your suggestion properly. I was keeping
Glen's suggestion in mind.
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
It is nice to see everyone is fighting for something good :-) ,
Well first I do not think anyone in this mailing list is so stupid to
give the PMC Chair or whatever based on the number of emails he sends to
the list. Let me tell why I think it is a good idea to make Axis2 a TLP.
First if you go back and look at the history why we wanted to make a
Synapse a TLP ? (while it is heavily depend on Axis2 and Axiom ). But no
one raised their concerns on dependent projects , simply no one talk
anything like these their ,we as a community saw the advantages of
making a synapse a TLP so we did that. As far as I understand from this
thread , we should not have made synapse TLP , rather we should have
created a new TLP called ESB and move synapse and other apache ESB
projects into that. But we did not do that , why ? , To answer that
just go and see the increase in number of download , and see the number
of users. That is just two thing I see after making Synapse as TLP. I am
happy I also +1 for making Synapse a TLP and it was a good decision.
Actually I wanted to make Axis2 a TLP at the same time frame (when Dims
was WS PMC chair).
Second if you look at all the WS project mailings lists, you will
realized more than 90% of the traffics on Axis2 projects. So you can not
consider Axis2 as yet another project in Axis2 , rather that is the most
active Web service projects in Apache-WS (because in Apache we have some
other active Web service projects which are not belong to Apache-WS).
Therefore staying inside WS does not make any sense for Axis2. I do not
mind renaming WS in to Axis2 , practical speaking WS is Axis2 (not to
hurt Axis1).
Having said that it is not an issues whether we want to make other
projects like Axiom , Neethi into TLPs if we are going to make Axis2
into TLP (as I mentioned earlier we did not discuss them when we move
synapse into TLP). Since project like Rampart , Sandesha can not live
without Axis2 , we should move them as subproject in Axis2 (if we agree
to move as TLP). Talking about C stack , my answer would be Axis2 if
would become a TLP , then Java and C version would be two main
sub-projects of that (or we can make both of the TLP).
For Dims , I am sorry I can not agree that with you that whoever working
day to day basis should take the decision. That is totally against the
open source development , theoretically open source developers will work
on when they have free time (because no one is getting paid open source
development , well now its bit different ). For example now I am (not
only me all the initial developers) not working on day to day basis
(you know why) , so just because that you can not tell me that I can not
involve with decision process.
Thank you for the reading very long mail.
Deepal
> Chinthaka,
>
> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>
> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
> committers can have access).
>
> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
> something new to see if it will work.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Eran Chinthaka
> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Eran Chinthaka wrote:
>>>
>>>> I hope I'm still not late to comment on this.
>>>>
>>>> I'm also with Sanjiva on this issue. Axis2 is just not Axis2 project
>>>> alone. Axiom and others are integral parts of it. Couple of
>>>> challenges/questions from me.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Let's take the Glen's proposal on two projects and list down the
>>>> developers in each project.
>>>>
>>> Hehe , then what Apache should do is remove all the TLPs and their PMC's
>>> and list down developers in different projects :)
>>>
>> I think you didn't get what I meant here. According to Glen's suggestion,
>> Axiom and Axis2 will be on two different projects. What is the meaning of
>> that if its the same people in both the groups.
>>
>> Also one more concern. I think Axis2/Java is more connected to Axiom than
>> Axis2/C. So keeping Axis2/C and Axis2/Java in one project and leaving out
>> Axiom makes no sense to me.
>>
>> Removing all the TLPs in Apache is not by any means analogous to that.
>>
>>
>>
>>> The one idea of TLP is to build small communities and improve them ,
>>> then automatically Apache as a whole will be improved.
>>>
>> Nice quote Deepal. You have already started to become a philosopher ;)
>>
>>
>>>> So is it worth doing this? I'm extremely sorry if I'm missing
>>>> something, but still I can not see a compelling argument to move on to
>>>> a new TLP.
>>>>
>>> As I can see you looking at the problem in differently ,
>>>
>>> its not about
>>> who is going to be the PMC chair , or whether we are going to become a
>>> PMC in some other list. Its about get more visibility to the projects
>>> and enhance the project.
>>>
>> Wow, what sort of *more* visibility you will get by doing this? Can you
>> please elaborate a bit? Will we see thousands of more Axis2 downloads after
>> this? Or will see developers competing to send patches to Axis2 and Axiom?
>>
>> I personally think creating separate TLPs will create more problems and
>> unnecessary separation within the community.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chinthaka
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Thank you!
http://blogs.deepal.org
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
It is nice to see everyone is fighting for something good :-) ,
Well first I do not think anyone in this mailing list is so stupid to
give the PMC Chair or whatever based on the number of emails he sends to
the list. Let me tell why I think it is a good idea to make Axis2 a TLP.
First if you go back and look at the history why we wanted to make a
Synapse a TLP ? (while it is heavily depend on Axis2 and Axiom ). But no
one raised their concerns on dependent projects , simply no one talk
anything like these their ,we as a community saw the advantages of
making a synapse a TLP so we did that. As far as I understand from this
thread , we should not have made synapse TLP , rather we should have
created a new TLP called ESB and move synapse and other apache ESB
projects into that. But we did not do that , why ? , To answer that
just go and see the increase in number of download , and see the number
of users. That is just two thing I see after making Synapse as TLP. I am
happy I also +1 for making Synapse a TLP and it was a good decision.
Actually I wanted to make Axis2 a TLP at the same time frame (when Dims
was WS PMC chair).
Second if you look at all the WS project mailings lists, you will
realized more than 90% of the traffics on Axis2 projects. So you can not
consider Axis2 as yet another project in Axis2 , rather that is the most
active Web service projects in Apache-WS (because in Apache we have some
other active Web service projects which are not belong to Apache-WS).
Therefore staying inside WS does not make any sense for Axis2. I do not
mind renaming WS in to Axis2 , practical speaking WS is Axis2 (not to
hurt Axis1).
Having said that it is not an issues whether we want to make other
projects like Axiom , Neethi into TLPs if we are going to make Axis2
into TLP (as I mentioned earlier we did not discuss them when we move
synapse into TLP). Since project like Rampart , Sandesha can not live
without Axis2 , we should move them as subproject in Axis2 (if we agree
to move as TLP). Talking about C stack , my answer would be Axis2 if
would become a TLP , then Java and C version would be two main
sub-projects of that (or we can make both of the TLP).
For Dims , I am sorry I can not agree that with you that whoever working
day to day basis should take the decision. That is totally against the
open source development , theoretically open source developers will work
on when they have free time (because no one is getting paid open source
development , well now its bit different ). For example now I am (not
only me all the initial developers) not working on day to day basis
(you know why) , so just because that you can not tell me that I can not
involve with decision process.
Thank you for the reading very long mail.
Deepal
> Chinthaka,
>
> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>
> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
> committers can have access).
>
> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
> something new to see if it will work.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Eran Chinthaka
> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Eran Chinthaka wrote:
>>>
>>>> I hope I'm still not late to comment on this.
>>>>
>>>> I'm also with Sanjiva on this issue. Axis2 is just not Axis2 project
>>>> alone. Axiom and others are integral parts of it. Couple of
>>>> challenges/questions from me.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Let's take the Glen's proposal on two projects and list down the
>>>> developers in each project.
>>>>
>>> Hehe , then what Apache should do is remove all the TLPs and their PMC's
>>> and list down developers in different projects :)
>>>
>> I think you didn't get what I meant here. According to Glen's suggestion,
>> Axiom and Axis2 will be on two different projects. What is the meaning of
>> that if its the same people in both the groups.
>>
>> Also one more concern. I think Axis2/Java is more connected to Axiom than
>> Axis2/C. So keeping Axis2/C and Axis2/Java in one project and leaving out
>> Axiom makes no sense to me.
>>
>> Removing all the TLPs in Apache is not by any means analogous to that.
>>
>>
>>
>>> The one idea of TLP is to build small communities and improve them ,
>>> then automatically Apache as a whole will be improved.
>>>
>> Nice quote Deepal. You have already started to become a philosopher ;)
>>
>>
>>>> So is it worth doing this? I'm extremely sorry if I'm missing
>>>> something, but still I can not see a compelling argument to move on to
>>>> a new TLP.
>>>>
>>> As I can see you looking at the problem in differently ,
>>>
>>> its not about
>>> who is going to be the PMC chair , or whether we are going to become a
>>> PMC in some other list. Its about get more visibility to the projects
>>> and enhance the project.
>>>
>> Wow, what sort of *more* visibility you will get by doing this? Can you
>> please elaborate a bit? Will we see thousands of more Axis2 downloads after
>> this? Or will see developers competing to send patches to Axis2 and Axiom?
>>
>> I personally think creating separate TLPs will create more problems and
>> unnecessary separation within the community.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chinthaka
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Thank you!
http://blogs.deepal.org
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP - let's be friendly
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
Hi All ,
Axis2 mailing list used to be a very active and very friendly mailing
list , so let's try to keep that as it is. I would like to request from
everyone , let's not try to use this list for any personal attack.
Whether we agree with someone or not we all try to do something good for
the project and the community . Whenever I send a reply to any mail in
the list what I have in my mind is to do something good for the project,
and I believe all others do the same. So PLEASE do not start personal
attack. I know I am new to Apache compared to most of you , but I hope
you will listen to me
Thank you!
Deepal
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for your kind words and sharing of your profound wisdom. Of
course, you are totally right once again!!!!
-- dims
On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 8:25 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> I have read your emails but I did not find an explanation of why you think
> we're a shell of what we used to be.
>
> While I of course realize that you have personal issues against me, this is
> a community discussion and you should try to keep the conversation about the
> community and not about your issues with me.
>
> If you don't want to explain your position that we've recently gone downhill
> that's fine, but telling me to get lost is not good enough and MOST
> CERTAINLY will not work. I've been around here since before any of this
> stuff existed and I sure ain't going nowhere .. not as long as I'm alive and
> kicking!
>
> Nice try, though.
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> I've given concrete examples if you bothered to read my emails. At
>> this point, i'll say get lost!
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>>
>>> If you want to have a conversation about this topic then you should be
>>> ready
>>> to explain your statements. You have made bold statements about how
>>> things
>>> have gone down hill but yet you have no explanation except some attempt
>>> at a
>>> smart-ass response. Doesn't quite work.
>>>
>>> Sanjiva.
>>>
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the deep insight and pointing out my double standards.
>>>>
>>>> -- dims
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>>>> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch??
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis
>>>>> you're
>>>>> claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be".
>>>>>
>>>>> Sanjiva.
>>>>>
>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>>>>>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>>>>>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- dims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Samisa,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a
>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status
>>>>>>>>> quo
>>>>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even
>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will
>>>>>>>> remain.
>>>>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>>>>>> projects,
>>>>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a
>>>>>>>> useless
>>>>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub
>>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> has.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems.
>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's.
>>>>>>>>> Please
>>>>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now
>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2"
>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same
>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas
>>>>>>>>>> <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate
>>>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related
>>>>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where
>>>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates
>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again.
>>>>>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation;
>>>>> http://www.opensource.lk/
>>>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>>>
>>>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>
>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for your kind words and sharing of your profound wisdom. Of
course, you are totally right once again!!!!
-- dims
On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 8:25 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> I have read your emails but I did not find an explanation of why you think
> we're a shell of what we used to be.
>
> While I of course realize that you have personal issues against me, this is
> a community discussion and you should try to keep the conversation about the
> community and not about your issues with me.
>
> If you don't want to explain your position that we've recently gone downhill
> that's fine, but telling me to get lost is not good enough and MOST
> CERTAINLY will not work. I've been around here since before any of this
> stuff existed and I sure ain't going nowhere .. not as long as I'm alive and
> kicking!
>
> Nice try, though.
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> I've given concrete examples if you bothered to read my emails. At
>> this point, i'll say get lost!
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>>
>>> If you want to have a conversation about this topic then you should be
>>> ready
>>> to explain your statements. You have made bold statements about how
>>> things
>>> have gone down hill but yet you have no explanation except some attempt
>>> at a
>>> smart-ass response. Doesn't quite work.
>>>
>>> Sanjiva.
>>>
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the deep insight and pointing out my double standards.
>>>>
>>>> -- dims
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>>>> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch??
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis
>>>>> you're
>>>>> claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be".
>>>>>
>>>>> Sanjiva.
>>>>>
>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>>>>>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>>>>>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- dims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Samisa,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a
>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status
>>>>>>>>> quo
>>>>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even
>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will
>>>>>>>> remain.
>>>>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>>>>>> projects,
>>>>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a
>>>>>>>> useless
>>>>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub
>>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> has.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems.
>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's.
>>>>>>>>> Please
>>>>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now
>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2"
>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same
>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas
>>>>>>>>>> <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate
>>>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related
>>>>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where
>>>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates
>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again.
>>>>>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation;
>>>>> http://www.opensource.lk/
>>>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>>>
>>>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>
>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
I have read your emails but I did not find an explanation of why you think
we're a shell of what we used to be.
While I of course realize that you have personal issues against me, this
is a community discussion and you should try to keep the conversation
about the community and not about your issues with me.
If you don't want to explain your position that we've recently gone
downhill that's fine, but telling me to get lost is not good enough and
MOST CERTAINLY will not work. I've been around here since before any of
this stuff existed and I sure ain't going nowhere .. not as long as I'm
alive and kicking!
Nice try, though.
Sanjiva.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> I've given concrete examples if you bothered to read my emails. At
> this point, i'll say get lost!
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>> If you want to have a conversation about this topic then you should be ready
>> to explain your statements. You have made bold statements about how things
>> have gone down hill but yet you have no explanation except some attempt at a
>> smart-ass response. Doesn't quite work.
>>
>> Sanjiva.
>>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>> Thanks for the deep insight and pointing out my double standards.
>>>
>>> -- dims
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>>> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>>> Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch??
>>>>
>>>> I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis you're
>>>> claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be".
>>>>
>>>> Sanjiva.
>>>>
>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>>>>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>>>>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- dims
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Samisa,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even
>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will
>>>>>>> remain.
>>>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>>>>> projects,
>>>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a
>>>>>>> useless
>>>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub
>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> has.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems.
>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas
>>>>>>>>> <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them.
>>>>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related
>>>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where
>>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates
>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again.
>>>>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>> --
>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>>
>>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>
>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
I have read your emails but I did not find an explanation of why you think
we're a shell of what we used to be.
While I of course realize that you have personal issues against me, this
is a community discussion and you should try to keep the conversation
about the community and not about your issues with me.
If you don't want to explain your position that we've recently gone
downhill that's fine, but telling me to get lost is not good enough and
MOST CERTAINLY will not work. I've been around here since before any of
this stuff existed and I sure ain't going nowhere .. not as long as I'm
alive and kicking!
Nice try, though.
Sanjiva.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> I've given concrete examples if you bothered to read my emails. At
> this point, i'll say get lost!
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>> If you want to have a conversation about this topic then you should be ready
>> to explain your statements. You have made bold statements about how things
>> have gone down hill but yet you have no explanation except some attempt at a
>> smart-ass response. Doesn't quite work.
>>
>> Sanjiva.
>>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>> Thanks for the deep insight and pointing out my double standards.
>>>
>>> -- dims
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>>> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>>> Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch??
>>>>
>>>> I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis you're
>>>> claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be".
>>>>
>>>> Sanjiva.
>>>>
>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>>>>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>>>>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- dims
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Samisa,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even
>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will
>>>>>>> remain.
>>>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>>>>> projects,
>>>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a
>>>>>>> useless
>>>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub
>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> has.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems.
>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas
>>>>>>>>> <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them.
>>>>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related
>>>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where
>>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates
>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again.
>>>>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>> --
>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>>
>>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>
>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
I've given concrete examples if you bothered to read my emails. At
this point, i'll say get lost!
thanks,
dims
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> If you want to have a conversation about this topic then you should be ready
> to explain your statements. You have made bold statements about how things
> have gone down hill but yet you have no explanation except some attempt at a
> smart-ass response. Doesn't quite work.
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the deep insight and pointing out my double standards.
>>
>> -- dims
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch??
>>>
>>> I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis you're
>>> claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be".
>>>
>>> Sanjiva.
>>>
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>>>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>>>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>>>
>>>> -- dims
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Samisa,
>>>>>
>>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> dims
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even
>>>>>> after
>>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will
>>>>>> remain.
>>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>>>> projects,
>>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a
>>>>>> useless
>>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub
>>>>>> projects
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> has.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems.
>>>>>> However,
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas
>>>>>>>> <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them.
>>>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related
>>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where
>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates
>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again.
>>>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>
>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
My comments are inline
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 11:27 PM, Eran Chinthaka
<er...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I thought of not giving any inputs to this as once it seemed things were
> getting personal. But let me try once again.
>
I assure you - nothing personal :)
> Let me first understand something. Isn't this a problem that should be
> discussed or voted, if required, in PMC, as this is about project
> management. Why this is raised in dev list without any consent in PMC? I
> know this decision will affect devs too, but ....
>
> If its ok to discuss these issues in dev lists, without any decision in PMC,
> I think it is best to cc other mailing lists too.( I can remember Dims
> sending this mail to general list initially. )
I think we had enough chat about this in the PMC and if you remember
how the conversation ended, we needed more
input. dev@ and general@ seems to be the right place to do so.
> Also if there is a vote can committers vote?
>
I don't think so. I look at this thread as a means of getting more
input from a crowd with broader interest. Once the things are done the
vote would (could) be in PMC.
> Please don't take any of those questions personal. I am just trying to
> understand.
>
> Please see my comments in-line.
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:04 PM, Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> I should kick myself for not reading Axis2 mail frequently. I just
>> spent 20 minutes reading the complete thread and just throwing my 2
>> cents.
>>
>
> Ajith, its the nature of people and you can not understand them. I still
> can not understand why you want to split. See the same argument. If we could
> understand people well, then perhaps we would not have been surprised when
> they selected George W for the second time ;)
>
Yes I agree people are unpredictable animals :) Atleast there was no such
strong arguments to/against the move in the PMC list.
> Anyway, why I don't agree is I don't see a problem with the current way.
> Even if there is a problem, I still don't see how things will be better if
> we go to multiple TLPs.
Here is a case that might take us back to the past. why was it that we
did not start
sandesha as a module of Axis but rather a separate sub project ? Why did we move
Axiom, savan,rampart and every bit of reusable functionality out of
the main Axis2 source tree ?
With functionality comes specialization and this separation makes each
of these little projects
manageable. Now the same argument gets applied to Axis2 since Axis2
has become a large
(if not the largest) portion of WS. it has achieved its own
specialization and own set of
followers
As I noted earlier - things are not going to get fixed automagically.
it just becomes easier to
manage. There is a chance that a renewed strength and motivation
sweeping through the committer base
if we make a move but that is not guaranteed or relied on.
>
>>
>> 2. I have to agree to Dims that we have not been active as usual.
>> There are open Jira's and I haven't had time to fix the few things
>> that are pending in my niche projects (XMLSchema and tcpmon) let alone
>> in Axis2.
>
> Ajith, I don't agree with you here. Axis2 now has a new breed of developers
> who are happily working on various components. People will be inactive for
> various reasons, but that is the nature of opensource projects.
Those new people work on Axis2. They don't contribute to WS as a
whole (meaning other Axis2 unrelated projects such as juddi,muse or
scout) but work on very specific Axis2 components. What would be the
more appropriate choice when it comes to committership ? Give them
committership in the Axis2 project or give them committership in WS ?
>
>>
>> 3. I've been told that (before my time in Apache) that it is
>> discouraged to put projects in an umbrella of functionality, say like
>> in ws* or xml*. Instead Apache has embraced the
>> related-or-not-related-but-interesting type of project names with
>> 'projects' and not umbrellas. Just to make it clear does the words
>> jackrabbit, lucene, synapse, Mina or Lenya make any hint of what the
>> project actually does ? So i don't see the point of keeping Axis2
>> under the umbrella of ws* anymore. if the ws* argument to hold I would
>> say all other Apache projects that provide the SOAP stack capability
>> should come under ws* as well (such as CXF)
>
> Ok if your argument is about the name WS, as Deepal suggested let's rename
> this to something else. Say Kurumba ;) (Ok that was meant to be a joke, just
> to be clear)
>
kurumba would have been fine (for the sake of the argument) since I
can't see what motivated a name like jackrabbit :) [no pun intended on
jackrabbit folks. For the clueless , Kurumba refers to the young
coconut where the water inside is sweet. However there are many other
uses of the word if you care to google]. My argument is there is no
harm done in moving to a project that seemingly has an obscure (?)
name. Apache has been doing it all along.
As for the Java and C versions, I believe they are like siblings. They
are both part of the Axis2 echo system. I am not at all in favor of
dropping the C half if we move on to a TLP.
--
Ajith Ranabahu
Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by "Sanjaya Karunasena (සංජය)" <sa...@wso2.com>.
I would also like to have Axis2 as a TLP project too. From the end user point
of view, the real container is Axis2. Other projects are parts/components,
which enhanced its capability. There is very little (or no some times) use
when you take these other components by itself without the core engine for
the web services developer.
Isn't it?
/Sanjaya
On Friday 31 October 2008, Paul Fremantle wrote:
> Deepal
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > VOTE is the final thing , and I still can not understand why most the
> > people do not want to make Axis2 TLP.
>
> I'm very happy to have Axis2 as a TLP including both Java and C.
>
> Paul
>
> Paul Fremantle
> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>
> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> paul@wso2.com
>
> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
Deepal
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com> wrote:
> VOTE is the final thing , and I still can not understand why most the
> people do not want to make Axis2 TLP.
I'm very happy to have Axis2 as a TLP including both Java and C.
Paul
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
Apache Synapse PMC Chair
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Asankha <as...@apache.org>.
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Amila,
>
> Why do you think Synapse went TLP?
>
>
> Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely with Synapse
> would give the exact Answer.
>
> On one hand Synapse is different from other WS common projects since
> it was graduated from incubator.
>
> And also if someone from Synapse can describe the pros/crons they got
> going for a TLP from WS commons project, that may help in this discussion.
So this [1] is the thread from where Synapse began its TLP process ..
the main message sent out being "..we have moved beyond webservices.."
as an ESB. From how I see it, it has been very good for Synapse to be a
TLP on its own, and to be out of the "Web Services" TLP which people saw
as pure WS-*
But interestingly, this has not solved some people issues.. for example,
even after I have officially informed the PMC's of both ServiceMix and
Camel, they live in the past and thinks of Synapse as quoted below,
which is really funny.. they probably feel threatened by Synapse :-) ?..
"/Synapse is more focussed on being a mediation engine for Axis 2;
assuming a web services environment with mostly SOAP as the payloads./" [2]
"/Building an SOA on Apache Synapse would presume that all exchanges in
the SOA would be made through SOAP-based Web Services, that the
management of the exchanges would be invoked exclusively by means of
WS-*, and that the underlying SOAP stack(s) implement the relevant
protocols./" [3]
The only con so far has been with moving of the code from the incubator,
to WS and then to the Synapse TLP.. which somehow got Ohnoh confused
<http://esbmagic.blogspot.com/2008/11/ohnoh-ohloh-got-it-all-wrong.html>
;)..
Being a separate TLP does not mean we do not cooperate with the rest of
WS.. infact we depend on almost all of the core Axis2 related projects -
axiom, xmlschema, axis2, rampart, sandesha, etc.. and sometimes changes
in these have affected us - but thats normal, and something we all must
expect and deal with anyway.. after all we solve much harder problems
technically :-)
asankha
[1] http://markmail.org/message/zfw2nujxpodfafq4
[2] http://activemq.apache.org/camel/how-does-camel-compare-to-synapse.html
[3] http://servicemix.apache.org/how-does-servicemix-compare-to-synapse.html
--
Asankha C. Perera
http://adroitlogic.org
http://esbmagic.blogspot.com
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Amila Suriarachchi <am...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Amila,
>
> Why do you think Synapse went TLP?
Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely with Synapse would
give the exact Answer.
On one hand Synapse is different from other WS common projects since it was
graduated from incubator.
And also if someone from Synapse can describe the pros/crons they got going
for a TLP from WS commons project, that may help in this discussion.
thanks,
Amila.
>
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Ajith Ranabahu
> <aj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > See my comments inline.
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Amila Suriarachchi
> > <am...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> hi,
> >>
> >> By going through all these discussions what I can think of is that going
> for
> >> TLP neither make it better nor worse.
> >>
> >>> Ok why do you want to move Axiom out from Axis2 , because it has a big
> >>> advantage when it is there in WS than in Axis2.
> >>
> >> yes. The advantage here is that they have separate svn and they can have
> >> independent releases. Axis2 can depends on particular Axiom Version
> while
> >> people developing Axiom. or Rampart/Sandesha can use a pirticular
> >> Axis2 version (if need) and can have independent releases.
> >>
> >> So in this scene WS project has broken things into separate manageable
> >> components with the time. Of course this has happened generally with the
> >> time and may happen in future as well.
> >>
> >> What is the big management advantage we get moving them to TLPs?
> >
> > Clarification here. There is not going to be axiom.apache.org or
> > rampart.apache.org. Only Axis2 is going to move to a TLP and directly
> > related sub projects will be under that as subprojects.
> >
> >
> >> I agree that there are a lot of jiras and incomplete web sits. The
> reason
> >> for this is lack of time committees getting to work on these project due
> to
> >> various personal reasons. So I think this is a different issue which can
> not
> >> be addressed by going for TLP.
> >>
> >> For an example both Ajith and Chinthaka were very active committers in
> this
> >> project. But now they only participate in discussions. Can we expect any
> >> change after going TLP? Lets say Deepal going to fix 50 issues after
> going
> >> TLP, why he can not do it now? (Here I have nothing make personal I try
> to
> >> explain what I want to say)
> >
> >
> > True - As I have mentioned numerous times earlier there is not going
> > to be any magic that solves
> > our problems when Axis2 is moved to TLP. Instead we get a focused
> > commiterbase and a PMC. When we attract
> > committers we get to them to a more focused project. There is not
> > going to be anything new happening
> > with the current committers. instead we spare the confusion to all the
> newbies.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> > Anyway, why I don't agree is I don't see a problem with the current
> >>> > way. Even if there is a problem, I still don't see how things will be
> >>> > better if we go to multiple TLPs.
> >>> My concern is , Axis2 does not get what it is supposed to get. It is
> >>> just stay inside something called WS. While some other Web service
> >>> project acting as TLP.
> >>
> >> Well, are you saying that being a TLP a prestigious status? Of course
> this
> >> is a personal thing and I am not thinking like that. If so that is a
> >> different concern.
> >
> > There is a sense of independence and an expanded state of visibility
> > in being a TLP. Why do you
> > think the new projects graduating from incubator want to go TLP
> > directly rather than hanging around as
> > subprojects of an umbrella ? why is it that we see most of the
> > donated projects (say hadoop and lucene from Yahoo or
> > xmlbeans from BEA) becoming TLP's rather than settling down as
> > subprojects ? IMHO the expanded visibility
> > gives better opportunities to market themselves and also help them
> > increase their focused commiterbase.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> Amila.
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ajith Ranabahu
> >
> > Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
> > creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
> > too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
--
Amila Suriarachchi
WSO2 Inc.
blog: http://amilachinthaka.blogspot.com/
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
> Amila Suriarachchi wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Deepal jayasinghe <deepalk@gmail.com
>> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely with Synapse
>> > would give the exact Answer.
>> Well , thats the problem. As I mentioned earlier it gets more
>> visibility
>>
>>
>> how can you support your argument using [1] and [2]? As I can see
>> both CXF and Axis2 have followed
>> a similar kind of curve from Mar - Oct. So for me it is a different
>> thing than being a TLP or not.
> Hehe , that is the point , Axis2 is around for about more than four
> years but CXF is not that old. CXF has that curve after they graduate
> as a TLP .
Nonsense- it has a solid curve after reaching the 2.0 release.
Sanjiva.
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
> Amila Suriarachchi wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Deepal jayasinghe <deepalk@gmail.com
>> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely with Synapse
>> > would give the exact Answer.
>> Well , thats the problem. As I mentioned earlier it gets more
>> visibility
>>
>>
>> how can you support your argument using [1] and [2]? As I can see
>> both CXF and Axis2 have followed
>> a similar kind of curve from Mar - Oct. So for me it is a different
>> thing than being a TLP or not.
> Hehe , that is the point , Axis2 is around for about more than four
> years but CXF is not that old. CXF has that curve after they graduate
> as a TLP .
Nonsense- it has a solid curve after reaching the 2.0 release.
Sanjiva.
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
Amila Suriarachchi wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Deepal jayasinghe <deepalk@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely with Synapse
> > would give the exact Answer.
> Well , thats the problem. As I mentioned earlier it gets more
> visibility
>
>
> how can you support your argument using [1] and [2]? As I can see
> both CXF and Axis2 have followed
> a similar kind of curve from Mar - Oct. So for me it is a different
> thing than being a TLP or not.
Hehe , that is the point , Axis2 is around for about more than four
years but CXF is not that old. CXF has that curve after they graduate
as a TLP .
Deepal
>
> thanks,
> Amila.
>
>
> and improvements after going as TLP.
>
>
>
> [1]
> http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/axis2.html#Downloads-N1008F
> [2]
> http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/cxf.html#Downloads-N1008F
>
>
> >
> > On one hand Synapse is different from other WS common projects since
> > it was graduated from incubator.
> That does not make any sense. It is also a Web service project doing
> additional SOA stuff.
> >
> > And also if someone from Synapse can describe the pros/crons
> they got
> > going for a TLP from WS commons project, that may help in this
> discussion.
> :)
>
> Deepal
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> <ma...@ws.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
> <ma...@ws.apache.org>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Amila Suriarachchi
> WSO2 Inc.
> blog: http://amilachinthaka.blogspot.com/
--
Thank you!
http://blogs.deepal.org
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
>
> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Deepal jayasinghe <deepalk@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> > I think this thread itself shows the complications we would have by
> > spiting it up. If we were to split it up does it make sense to keep
> > projects like Rampart, Sandesha, Transports in WS?
> Yes they should come under Axis2 , because those projects are not
> useful
> without Axis2.
>
>
> So thats essentially pulling some stuff off ws (axiom, xmlschema and
> stuff) and renaming ws to Axis2 isn't it? Thats what you propose?
Nope , as I mentioned earlier when replying to Glen's mail . I am not
proposing to move Axiom and XmlSchema with Axis2. It is just Axis2 and
the projects which can not live without Axis2 (Sandesha , Rampart etc..)
Deepal
>
> Thanks,
> Keith.
>
>
>
> Deepal
> > I don't think these projects can be used outside of Axis2 (Yes
> synapse
> > will use the Transports but thats it). So If Axis2 becomes a TLP why
> > keep these in a separate location called WS? (I don't think these
> > projects should become TLP's, I'm not sure what the answer
> should be).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Keith.
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Amila Suriarachchi
> > <amilasuriarachchi@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>
> <mailto:amilasuriarachchi@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Deepal jayasinghe
> > <deepalk@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>
> <mailto:deepalk@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely
> with
> > Synapse
> > > would give the exact Answer.
> > Well , thats the problem. As I mentioned earlier it gets
> more
> > visibility
> >
> >
> > how can you support your argument using [1] and [2]? As I
> can see
> > both CXF and Axis2 have followed
> > a similar kind of curve from Mar - Oct. So for me it is a
> > different thing than being a TLP or not.
> >
> > thanks,
> > Amila.
> >
> >
> > and improvements after going as TLP.
> >
> >
> >
> > [1]
> >
> http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/axis2.html#Downloads-N1008F
> > [2]
> >
> http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/cxf.html#Downloads-N1008F
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On one hand Synapse is different from other WS common
> > projects since
> > > it was graduated from incubator.
> > That does not make any sense. It is also a Web service
> project
> > doing
> > additional SOA stuff.
> > >
> > > And also if someone from Synapse can describe the
> pros/crons
> > they got
> > > going for a TLP from WS commons project, that may help in
> > this discussion.
> > :)
> >
> > Deepal
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> <ma...@ws.apache.org>
> > <mailto:general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> <ma...@ws.apache.org>>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> general-help@ws.apache.org <ma...@ws.apache.org>
> > <mailto:general-help@ws.apache.org
> <ma...@ws.apache.org>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Amila Suriarachchi
> > WSO2 Inc.
> > blog: http://amilachinthaka.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Keith Chapman
> > Senior Software Engineer
> > WSO2 Inc.
> > Oxygenating the Web Service Platform.
> > http://wso2.org/
> >
> > blog: http://www.keith-chapman.org
>
>
> --
> Thank you!
>
>
> http://blogs.deepal.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> <ma...@ws.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
> <ma...@ws.apache.org>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Keith Chapman
> Senior Software Engineer
> WSO2 Inc.
> Oxygenating the Web Service Platform.
> http://wso2.org/
>
> blog: http://www.keith-chapman.org
--
Thank you!
http://blogs.deepal.org
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
>
> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Deepal jayasinghe <deepalk@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> > I think this thread itself shows the complications we would have by
> > spiting it up. If we were to split it up does it make sense to keep
> > projects like Rampart, Sandesha, Transports in WS?
> Yes they should come under Axis2 , because those projects are not
> useful
> without Axis2.
>
>
> So thats essentially pulling some stuff off ws (axiom, xmlschema and
> stuff) and renaming ws to Axis2 isn't it? Thats what you propose?
Nope , as I mentioned earlier when replying to Glen's mail . I am not
proposing to move Axiom and XmlSchema with Axis2. It is just Axis2 and
the projects which can not live without Axis2 (Sandesha , Rampart etc..)
Deepal
>
> Thanks,
> Keith.
>
>
>
> Deepal
> > I don't think these projects can be used outside of Axis2 (Yes
> synapse
> > will use the Transports but thats it). So If Axis2 becomes a TLP why
> > keep these in a separate location called WS? (I don't think these
> > projects should become TLP's, I'm not sure what the answer
> should be).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Keith.
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Amila Suriarachchi
> > <amilasuriarachchi@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>
> <mailto:amilasuriarachchi@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Deepal jayasinghe
> > <deepalk@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>
> <mailto:deepalk@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely
> with
> > Synapse
> > > would give the exact Answer.
> > Well , thats the problem. As I mentioned earlier it gets
> more
> > visibility
> >
> >
> > how can you support your argument using [1] and [2]? As I
> can see
> > both CXF and Axis2 have followed
> > a similar kind of curve from Mar - Oct. So for me it is a
> > different thing than being a TLP or not.
> >
> > thanks,
> > Amila.
> >
> >
> > and improvements after going as TLP.
> >
> >
> >
> > [1]
> >
> http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/axis2.html#Downloads-N1008F
> > [2]
> >
> http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/cxf.html#Downloads-N1008F
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On one hand Synapse is different from other WS common
> > projects since
> > > it was graduated from incubator.
> > That does not make any sense. It is also a Web service
> project
> > doing
> > additional SOA stuff.
> > >
> > > And also if someone from Synapse can describe the
> pros/crons
> > they got
> > > going for a TLP from WS commons project, that may help in
> > this discussion.
> > :)
> >
> > Deepal
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> <ma...@ws.apache.org>
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> > <mailto:general-help@ws.apache.org
> <ma...@ws.apache.org>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Amila Suriarachchi
> > WSO2 Inc.
> > blog: http://amilachinthaka.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Keith Chapman
> > Senior Software Engineer
> > WSO2 Inc.
> > Oxygenating the Web Service Platform.
> > http://wso2.org/
> >
> > blog: http://www.keith-chapman.org
>
>
> --
> Thank you!
>
>
> http://blogs.deepal.org
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> --
> Keith Chapman
> Senior Software Engineer
> WSO2 Inc.
> Oxygenating the Web Service Platform.
> http://wso2.org/
>
> blog: http://www.keith-chapman.org
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by keith chapman <ke...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think this thread itself shows the complications we would have by
> > spiting it up. If we were to split it up does it make sense to keep
> > projects like Rampart, Sandesha, Transports in WS?
> Yes they should come under Axis2 , because those projects are not useful
> without Axis2.
So thats essentially pulling some stuff off ws (axiom, xmlschema and stuff)
and renaming ws to Axis2 isn't it? Thats what you propose?
Thanks,
Keith.
>
>
> Deepal
> > I don't think these projects can be used outside of Axis2 (Yes synapse
> > will use the Transports but thats it). So If Axis2 becomes a TLP why
> > keep these in a separate location called WS? (I don't think these
> > projects should become TLP's, I'm not sure what the answer should be).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Keith.
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Amila Suriarachchi
> > <amilasuriarachchi@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Deepal jayasinghe
> > <deepalk@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely with
> > Synapse
> > > would give the exact Answer.
> > Well , thats the problem. As I mentioned earlier it gets more
> > visibility
> >
> >
> > how can you support your argument using [1] and [2]? As I can see
> > both CXF and Axis2 have followed
> > a similar kind of curve from Mar - Oct. So for me it is a
> > different thing than being a TLP or not.
> >
> > thanks,
> > Amila.
> >
> >
> > and improvements after going as TLP.
> >
> >
> >
> > [1]
> >
> http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/axis2.html#Downloads-N1008F
> > [2]
> >
> http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/cxf.html#Downloads-N1008F
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On one hand Synapse is different from other WS common
> > projects since
> > > it was graduated from incubator.
> > That does not make any sense. It is also a Web service project
> > doing
> > additional SOA stuff.
> > >
> > > And also if someone from Synapse can describe the pros/crons
> > they got
> > > going for a TLP from WS commons project, that may help in
> > this discussion.
> > :)
> >
> > Deepal
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > <ma...@ws.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
> > <ma...@ws.apache.org>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Amila Suriarachchi
> > WSO2 Inc.
> > blog: http://amilachinthaka.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Keith Chapman
> > Senior Software Engineer
> > WSO2 Inc.
> > Oxygenating the Web Service Platform.
> > http://wso2.org/
> >
> > blog: http://www.keith-chapman.org
>
>
> --
> Thank you!
>
>
> http://blogs.deepal.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Keith Chapman
Senior Software Engineer
WSO2 Inc.
Oxygenating the Web Service Platform.
http://wso2.org/
blog: http://www.keith-chapman.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Asankha <as...@apache.org>.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think this thread itself shows the complications we would have by
>> spiting it up. If we were to split it up does it make sense to keep
>> projects like Rampart, Sandesha, Transports in WS?
>>
> Yes they should come under Axis2 , because those projects are not useful
> without Axis2.
>
Not the Transports!.. since some of them were contributed by the Synapse
community on the basis that transports would be a separate project. The
fact that they were developed by Synapse itself is a clear indication
that they are useful even without direct use of Axis2.
When we moved the transports out from Synapse, we also agreed that they
could have separate releases, obviously based on a released Axis2 API
version.
asankha
--
Asankha C. Perera
http://adroitlogic.org
http://esbmagic.blogspot.com
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Asankha <as...@apache.org>.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think this thread itself shows the complications we would have by
>> spiting it up. If we were to split it up does it make sense to keep
>> projects like Rampart, Sandesha, Transports in WS?
>>
> Yes they should come under Axis2 , because those projects are not useful
> without Axis2.
>
Not the Transports!.. since some of them were contributed by the Synapse
community on the basis that transports would be a separate project. The
fact that they were developed by Synapse itself is a clear indication
that they are useful even without direct use of Axis2.
When we moved the transports out from Synapse, we also agreed that they
could have separate releases, obviously based on a released Axis2 API
version.
asankha
--
Asankha C. Perera
http://adroitlogic.org
http://esbmagic.blogspot.com
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
> I think this thread itself shows the complications we would have by
> spiting it up. If we were to split it up does it make sense to keep
> projects like Rampart, Sandesha, Transports in WS?
Yes they should come under Axis2 , because those projects are not useful
without Axis2.
Deepal
> I don't think these projects can be used outside of Axis2 (Yes synapse
> will use the Transports but thats it). So If Axis2 becomes a TLP why
> keep these in a separate location called WS? (I don't think these
> projects should become TLP's, I'm not sure what the answer should be).
>
> Thanks,
> Keith.
>
> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Amila Suriarachchi
> <amilasuriarachchi@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Deepal jayasinghe
> <deepalk@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely with
> Synapse
> > would give the exact Answer.
> Well , thats the problem. As I mentioned earlier it gets more
> visibility
>
>
> how can you support your argument using [1] and [2]? As I can see
> both CXF and Axis2 have followed
> a similar kind of curve from Mar - Oct. So for me it is a
> different thing than being a TLP or not.
>
> thanks,
> Amila.
>
>
> and improvements after going as TLP.
>
>
>
> [1]
> http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/axis2.html#Downloads-N1008F
> [2]
> http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/cxf.html#Downloads-N1008F
>
>
> >
> > On one hand Synapse is different from other WS common
> projects since
> > it was graduated from incubator.
> That does not make any sense. It is also a Web service project
> doing
> additional SOA stuff.
> >
> > And also if someone from Synapse can describe the pros/crons
> they got
> > going for a TLP from WS commons project, that may help in
> this discussion.
> :)
>
> Deepal
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> <ma...@ws.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
> <ma...@ws.apache.org>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Amila Suriarachchi
> WSO2 Inc.
> blog: http://amilachinthaka.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
> --
> Keith Chapman
> Senior Software Engineer
> WSO2 Inc.
> Oxygenating the Web Service Platform.
> http://wso2.org/
>
> blog: http://www.keith-chapman.org
--
Thank you!
http://blogs.deepal.org
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
> I think this thread itself shows the complications we would have by
> spiting it up. If we were to split it up does it make sense to keep
> projects like Rampart, Sandesha, Transports in WS?
Yes they should come under Axis2 , because those projects are not useful
without Axis2.
Deepal
> I don't think these projects can be used outside of Axis2 (Yes synapse
> will use the Transports but thats it). So If Axis2 becomes a TLP why
> keep these in a separate location called WS? (I don't think these
> projects should become TLP's, I'm not sure what the answer should be).
>
> Thanks,
> Keith.
>
> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Amila Suriarachchi
> <amilasuriarachchi@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Deepal jayasinghe
> <deepalk@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely with
> Synapse
> > would give the exact Answer.
> Well , thats the problem. As I mentioned earlier it gets more
> visibility
>
>
> how can you support your argument using [1] and [2]? As I can see
> both CXF and Axis2 have followed
> a similar kind of curve from Mar - Oct. So for me it is a
> different thing than being a TLP or not.
>
> thanks,
> Amila.
>
>
> and improvements after going as TLP.
>
>
>
> [1]
> http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/axis2.html#Downloads-N1008F
> [2]
> http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/cxf.html#Downloads-N1008F
>
>
> >
> > On one hand Synapse is different from other WS common
> projects since
> > it was graduated from incubator.
> That does not make any sense. It is also a Web service project
> doing
> additional SOA stuff.
> >
> > And also if someone from Synapse can describe the pros/crons
> they got
> > going for a TLP from WS commons project, that may help in
> this discussion.
> :)
>
> Deepal
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> <ma...@ws.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
> <ma...@ws.apache.org>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Amila Suriarachchi
> WSO2 Inc.
> blog: http://amilachinthaka.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
> --
> Keith Chapman
> Senior Software Engineer
> WSO2 Inc.
> Oxygenating the Web Service Platform.
> http://wso2.org/
>
> blog: http://www.keith-chapman.org
--
Thank you!
http://blogs.deepal.org
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by keith chapman <ke...@gmail.com>.
I think this thread itself shows the complications we would have by spiting
it up. If we were to split it up does it make sense to keep projects like
Rampart, Sandesha, Transports in WS? I don't think these projects can be
used outside of Axis2 (Yes synapse will use the Transports but thats it). So
If Axis2 becomes a TLP why keep these in a separate location called WS? (I
don't think these projects should become TLP's, I'm not sure what the answer
should be).
Thanks,
Keith.
On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Amila Suriarachchi <
amilasuriarachchi@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> >
>> > Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely with Synapse
>> > would give the exact Answer.
>> Well , thats the problem. As I mentioned earlier it gets more visibility
>
>
> how can you support your argument using [1] and [2]? As I can see both CXF
> and Axis2 have followed
> a similar kind of curve from Mar - Oct. So for me it is a different thing
> than being a TLP or not.
>
> thanks,
> Amila.
>
>>
>> and improvements after going as TLP.
>
>
>
> [1]
> http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/axis2.html#Downloads-N1008F
> [2]
> http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/cxf.html#Downloads-N1008F
>
>>
>> >
>> > On one hand Synapse is different from other WS common projects since
>> > it was graduated from incubator.
>> That does not make any sense. It is also a Web service project doing
>> additional SOA stuff.
>> >
>> > And also if someone from Synapse can describe the pros/crons they got
>> > going for a TLP from WS commons project, that may help in this
>> discussion.
>> :)
>>
>> Deepal
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Amila Suriarachchi
> WSO2 Inc.
> blog: http://amilachinthaka.blogspot.com/
>
--
Keith Chapman
Senior Software Engineer
WSO2 Inc.
Oxygenating the Web Service Platform.
http://wso2.org/
blog: http://www.keith-chapman.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
Amila Suriarachchi wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Deepal jayasinghe <deepalk@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely with Synapse
> > would give the exact Answer.
> Well , thats the problem. As I mentioned earlier it gets more
> visibility
>
>
> how can you support your argument using [1] and [2]? As I can see
> both CXF and Axis2 have followed
> a similar kind of curve from Mar - Oct. So for me it is a different
> thing than being a TLP or not.
Hehe , that is the point , Axis2 is around for about more than four
years but CXF is not that old. CXF has that curve after they graduate
as a TLP .
Deepal
>
> thanks,
> Amila.
>
>
> and improvements after going as TLP.
>
>
>
> [1]
> http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/axis2.html#Downloads-N1008F
> [2]
> http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/cxf.html#Downloads-N1008F
>
>
> >
> > On one hand Synapse is different from other WS common projects since
> > it was graduated from incubator.
> That does not make any sense. It is also a Web service project doing
> additional SOA stuff.
> >
> > And also if someone from Synapse can describe the pros/crons
> they got
> > going for a TLP from WS commons project, that may help in this
> discussion.
> :)
>
> Deepal
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> <ma...@ws.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
> <ma...@ws.apache.org>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Amila Suriarachchi
> WSO2 Inc.
> blog: http://amilachinthaka.blogspot.com/
--
Thank you!
http://blogs.deepal.org
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Amila Suriarachchi <am...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely with Synapse
> > would give the exact Answer.
> Well , thats the problem. As I mentioned earlier it gets more visibility
how can you support your argument using [1] and [2]? As I can see both CXF
and Axis2 have followed
a similar kind of curve from Mar - Oct. So for me it is a different thing
than being a TLP or not.
thanks,
Amila.
>
> and improvements after going as TLP.
[1]
http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/axis2.html#Downloads-N1008F
[2]
http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/cxf.html#Downloads-N1008F
>
> >
> > On one hand Synapse is different from other WS common projects since
> > it was graduated from incubator.
> That does not make any sense. It is also a Web service project doing
> additional SOA stuff.
> >
> > And also if someone from Synapse can describe the pros/crons they got
> > going for a TLP from WS commons project, that may help in this
> discussion.
> :)
>
> Deepal
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Amila Suriarachchi
WSO2 Inc.
blog: http://amilachinthaka.blogspot.com/
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Amila Suriarachchi <am...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely with Synapse
> > would give the exact Answer.
> Well , thats the problem. As I mentioned earlier it gets more visibility
how can you support your argument using [1] and [2]? As I can see both CXF
and Axis2 have followed
a similar kind of curve from Mar - Oct. So for me it is a different thing
than being a TLP or not.
thanks,
Amila.
>
> and improvements after going as TLP.
[1]
http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/axis2.html#Downloads-N1008F
[2]
http://people.apache.org/%7Evgritsenko/stats/projects/cxf.html#Downloads-N1008F
>
> >
> > On one hand Synapse is different from other WS common projects since
> > it was graduated from incubator.
> That does not make any sense. It is also a Web service project doing
> additional SOA stuff.
> >
> > And also if someone from Synapse can describe the pros/crons they got
> > going for a TLP from WS commons project, that may help in this
> discussion.
> :)
>
> Deepal
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Amila Suriarachchi
WSO2 Inc.
blog: http://amilachinthaka.blogspot.com/
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
>
> Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely with Synapse
> would give the exact Answer.
Well , thats the problem. As I mentioned earlier it gets more visibility
and improvements after going as TLP.
>
> On one hand Synapse is different from other WS common projects since
> it was graduated from incubator.
That does not make any sense. It is also a Web service project doing
additional SOA stuff.
>
> And also if someone from Synapse can describe the pros/crons they got
> going for a TLP from WS commons project, that may help in this discussion.
:)
Deepal
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
>
> Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely with Synapse
> would give the exact Answer.
Well , thats the problem. As I mentioned earlier it gets more visibility
and improvements after going as TLP.
>
> On one hand Synapse is different from other WS common projects since
> it was graduated from incubator.
That does not make any sense. It is also a Web service project doing
additional SOA stuff.
>
> And also if someone from Synapse can describe the pros/crons they got
> going for a TLP from WS commons project, that may help in this discussion.
:)
Deepal
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Amila Suriarachchi <am...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Amila,
>
> Why do you think Synapse went TLP?
Honestly I have no idea. But some one working closely with Synapse would
give the exact Answer.
On one hand Synapse is different from other WS common projects since it was
graduated from incubator.
And also if someone from Synapse can describe the pros/crons they got going
for a TLP from WS commons project, that may help in this discussion.
thanks,
Amila.
>
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Ajith Ranabahu
> <aj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > See my comments inline.
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Amila Suriarachchi
> > <am...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> hi,
> >>
> >> By going through all these discussions what I can think of is that going
> for
> >> TLP neither make it better nor worse.
> >>
> >>> Ok why do you want to move Axiom out from Axis2 , because it has a big
> >>> advantage when it is there in WS than in Axis2.
> >>
> >> yes. The advantage here is that they have separate svn and they can have
> >> independent releases. Axis2 can depends on particular Axiom Version
> while
> >> people developing Axiom. or Rampart/Sandesha can use a pirticular
> >> Axis2 version (if need) and can have independent releases.
> >>
> >> So in this scene WS project has broken things into separate manageable
> >> components with the time. Of course this has happened generally with the
> >> time and may happen in future as well.
> >>
> >> What is the big management advantage we get moving them to TLPs?
> >
> > Clarification here. There is not going to be axiom.apache.org or
> > rampart.apache.org. Only Axis2 is going to move to a TLP and directly
> > related sub projects will be under that as subprojects.
> >
> >
> >> I agree that there are a lot of jiras and incomplete web sits. The
> reason
> >> for this is lack of time committees getting to work on these project due
> to
> >> various personal reasons. So I think this is a different issue which can
> not
> >> be addressed by going for TLP.
> >>
> >> For an example both Ajith and Chinthaka were very active committers in
> this
> >> project. But now they only participate in discussions. Can we expect any
> >> change after going TLP? Lets say Deepal going to fix 50 issues after
> going
> >> TLP, why he can not do it now? (Here I have nothing make personal I try
> to
> >> explain what I want to say)
> >
> >
> > True - As I have mentioned numerous times earlier there is not going
> > to be any magic that solves
> > our problems when Axis2 is moved to TLP. Instead we get a focused
> > commiterbase and a PMC. When we attract
> > committers we get to them to a more focused project. There is not
> > going to be anything new happening
> > with the current committers. instead we spare the confusion to all the
> newbies.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> > Anyway, why I don't agree is I don't see a problem with the current
> >>> > way. Even if there is a problem, I still don't see how things will be
> >>> > better if we go to multiple TLPs.
> >>> My concern is , Axis2 does not get what it is supposed to get. It is
> >>> just stay inside something called WS. While some other Web service
> >>> project acting as TLP.
> >>
> >> Well, are you saying that being a TLP a prestigious status? Of course
> this
> >> is a personal thing and I am not thinking like that. If so that is a
> >> different concern.
> >
> > There is a sense of independence and an expanded state of visibility
> > in being a TLP. Why do you
> > think the new projects graduating from incubator want to go TLP
> > directly rather than hanging around as
> > subprojects of an umbrella ? why is it that we see most of the
> > donated projects (say hadoop and lucene from Yahoo or
> > xmlbeans from BEA) becoming TLP's rather than settling down as
> > subprojects ? IMHO the expanded visibility
> > gives better opportunities to market themselves and also help them
> > increase their focused commiterbase.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> Amila.
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ajith Ranabahu
> >
> > Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
> > creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
> > too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Amila Suriarachchi
WSO2 Inc.
blog: http://amilachinthaka.blogspot.com/
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Amila,
Why do you think Synapse went TLP?
thanks,
dims
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Ajith Ranabahu
<aj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> See my comments inline.
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Amila Suriarachchi
> <am...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> hi,
>>
>> By going through all these discussions what I can think of is that going for
>> TLP neither make it better nor worse.
>>
>>> Ok why do you want to move Axiom out from Axis2 , because it has a big
>>> advantage when it is there in WS than in Axis2.
>>
>> yes. The advantage here is that they have separate svn and they can have
>> independent releases. Axis2 can depends on particular Axiom Version while
>> people developing Axiom. or Rampart/Sandesha can use a pirticular
>> Axis2 version (if need) and can have independent releases.
>>
>> So in this scene WS project has broken things into separate manageable
>> components with the time. Of course this has happened generally with the
>> time and may happen in future as well.
>>
>> What is the big management advantage we get moving them to TLPs?
>
> Clarification here. There is not going to be axiom.apache.org or
> rampart.apache.org. Only Axis2 is going to move to a TLP and directly
> related sub projects will be under that as subprojects.
>
>
>> I agree that there are a lot of jiras and incomplete web sits. The reason
>> for this is lack of time committees getting to work on these project due to
>> various personal reasons. So I think this is a different issue which can not
>> be addressed by going for TLP.
>>
>> For an example both Ajith and Chinthaka were very active committers in this
>> project. But now they only participate in discussions. Can we expect any
>> change after going TLP? Lets say Deepal going to fix 50 issues after going
>> TLP, why he can not do it now? (Here I have nothing make personal I try to
>> explain what I want to say)
>
>
> True - As I have mentioned numerous times earlier there is not going
> to be any magic that solves
> our problems when Axis2 is moved to TLP. Instead we get a focused
> commiterbase and a PMC. When we attract
> committers we get to them to a more focused project. There is not
> going to be anything new happening
> with the current committers. instead we spare the confusion to all the newbies.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Anyway, why I don't agree is I don't see a problem with the current
>>> > way. Even if there is a problem, I still don't see how things will be
>>> > better if we go to multiple TLPs.
>>> My concern is , Axis2 does not get what it is supposed to get. It is
>>> just stay inside something called WS. While some other Web service
>>> project acting as TLP.
>>
>> Well, are you saying that being a TLP a prestigious status? Of course this
>> is a personal thing and I am not thinking like that. If so that is a
>> different concern.
>
> There is a sense of independence and an expanded state of visibility
> in being a TLP. Why do you
> think the new projects graduating from incubator want to go TLP
> directly rather than hanging around as
> subprojects of an umbrella ? why is it that we see most of the
> donated projects (say hadoop and lucene from Yahoo or
> xmlbeans from BEA) becoming TLP's rather than settling down as
> subprojects ? IMHO the expanded visibility
> gives better opportunities to market themselves and also help them
> increase their focused commiterbase.
>
>>
>>
>> thanks,
>> Amila.
>>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ajith Ranabahu
>
> Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
> creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
> too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Amila,
Why do you think Synapse went TLP?
thanks,
dims
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Ajith Ranabahu
<aj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> See my comments inline.
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Amila Suriarachchi
> <am...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> hi,
>>
>> By going through all these discussions what I can think of is that going for
>> TLP neither make it better nor worse.
>>
>>> Ok why do you want to move Axiom out from Axis2 , because it has a big
>>> advantage when it is there in WS than in Axis2.
>>
>> yes. The advantage here is that they have separate svn and they can have
>> independent releases. Axis2 can depends on particular Axiom Version while
>> people developing Axiom. or Rampart/Sandesha can use a pirticular
>> Axis2 version (if need) and can have independent releases.
>>
>> So in this scene WS project has broken things into separate manageable
>> components with the time. Of course this has happened generally with the
>> time and may happen in future as well.
>>
>> What is the big management advantage we get moving them to TLPs?
>
> Clarification here. There is not going to be axiom.apache.org or
> rampart.apache.org. Only Axis2 is going to move to a TLP and directly
> related sub projects will be under that as subprojects.
>
>
>> I agree that there are a lot of jiras and incomplete web sits. The reason
>> for this is lack of time committees getting to work on these project due to
>> various personal reasons. So I think this is a different issue which can not
>> be addressed by going for TLP.
>>
>> For an example both Ajith and Chinthaka were very active committers in this
>> project. But now they only participate in discussions. Can we expect any
>> change after going TLP? Lets say Deepal going to fix 50 issues after going
>> TLP, why he can not do it now? (Here I have nothing make personal I try to
>> explain what I want to say)
>
>
> True - As I have mentioned numerous times earlier there is not going
> to be any magic that solves
> our problems when Axis2 is moved to TLP. Instead we get a focused
> commiterbase and a PMC. When we attract
> committers we get to them to a more focused project. There is not
> going to be anything new happening
> with the current committers. instead we spare the confusion to all the newbies.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Anyway, why I don't agree is I don't see a problem with the current
>>> > way. Even if there is a problem, I still don't see how things will be
>>> > better if we go to multiple TLPs.
>>> My concern is , Axis2 does not get what it is supposed to get. It is
>>> just stay inside something called WS. While some other Web service
>>> project acting as TLP.
>>
>> Well, are you saying that being a TLP a prestigious status? Of course this
>> is a personal thing and I am not thinking like that. If so that is a
>> different concern.
>
> There is a sense of independence and an expanded state of visibility
> in being a TLP. Why do you
> think the new projects graduating from incubator want to go TLP
> directly rather than hanging around as
> subprojects of an umbrella ? why is it that we see most of the
> donated projects (say hadoop and lucene from Yahoo or
> xmlbeans from BEA) becoming TLP's rather than settling down as
> subprojects ? IMHO the expanded visibility
> gives better opportunities to market themselves and also help them
> increase their focused commiterbase.
>
>>
>>
>> thanks,
>> Amila.
>>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ajith Ranabahu
>
> Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
> creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
> too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
See my comments inline.
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Amila Suriarachchi
<am...@gmail.com> wrote:
> hi,
>
> By going through all these discussions what I can think of is that going for
> TLP neither make it better nor worse.
>
>> Ok why do you want to move Axiom out from Axis2 , because it has a big
>> advantage when it is there in WS than in Axis2.
>
> yes. The advantage here is that they have separate svn and they can have
> independent releases. Axis2 can depends on particular Axiom Version while
> people developing Axiom. or Rampart/Sandesha can use a pirticular
> Axis2 version (if need) and can have independent releases.
>
> So in this scene WS project has broken things into separate manageable
> components with the time. Of course this has happened generally with the
> time and may happen in future as well.
>
> What is the big management advantage we get moving them to TLPs?
Clarification here. There is not going to be axiom.apache.org or
rampart.apache.org. Only Axis2 is going to move to a TLP and directly
related sub projects will be under that as subprojects.
> I agree that there are a lot of jiras and incomplete web sits. The reason
> for this is lack of time committees getting to work on these project due to
> various personal reasons. So I think this is a different issue which can not
> be addressed by going for TLP.
>
> For an example both Ajith and Chinthaka were very active committers in this
> project. But now they only participate in discussions. Can we expect any
> change after going TLP? Lets say Deepal going to fix 50 issues after going
> TLP, why he can not do it now? (Here I have nothing make personal I try to
> explain what I want to say)
True - As I have mentioned numerous times earlier there is not going
to be any magic that solves
our problems when Axis2 is moved to TLP. Instead we get a focused
commiterbase and a PMC. When we attract
committers we get to them to a more focused project. There is not
going to be anything new happening
with the current committers. instead we spare the confusion to all the newbies.
>
>
>>
>> >
>> > Anyway, why I don't agree is I don't see a problem with the current
>> > way. Even if there is a problem, I still don't see how things will be
>> > better if we go to multiple TLPs.
>> My concern is , Axis2 does not get what it is supposed to get. It is
>> just stay inside something called WS. While some other Web service
>> project acting as TLP.
>
> Well, are you saying that being a TLP a prestigious status? Of course this
> is a personal thing and I am not thinking like that. If so that is a
> different concern.
There is a sense of independence and an expanded state of visibility
in being a TLP. Why do you
think the new projects graduating from incubator want to go TLP
directly rather than hanging around as
subprojects of an umbrella ? why is it that we see most of the
donated projects (say hadoop and lucene from Yahoo or
xmlbeans from BEA) becoming TLP's rather than settling down as
subprojects ? IMHO the expanded visibility
gives better opportunities to market themselves and also help them
increase their focused commiterbase.
>
>
> thanks,
> Amila.
>>
--
Ajith Ranabahu
Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
You must have misunderstood me.
Paul
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Serves me right to open my mouth. Sorry won't happen again.
>
> -- dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ah the glory days when you were Veep!
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>>
>>> -- dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Samisa,
>>>>
>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>
>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
>>>>> has.
>>>>>
>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>
>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul Fremantle
>> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
>> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
>> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>>
>> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
>> paul@wso2.com
>>
>> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
Apache Synapse PMC Chair
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
See my comments inline.
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Amila Suriarachchi
<am...@gmail.com> wrote:
> hi,
>
> By going through all these discussions what I can think of is that going for
> TLP neither make it better nor worse.
>
>> Ok why do you want to move Axiom out from Axis2 , because it has a big
>> advantage when it is there in WS than in Axis2.
>
> yes. The advantage here is that they have separate svn and they can have
> independent releases. Axis2 can depends on particular Axiom Version while
> people developing Axiom. or Rampart/Sandesha can use a pirticular
> Axis2 version (if need) and can have independent releases.
>
> So in this scene WS project has broken things into separate manageable
> components with the time. Of course this has happened generally with the
> time and may happen in future as well.
>
> What is the big management advantage we get moving them to TLPs?
Clarification here. There is not going to be axiom.apache.org or
rampart.apache.org. Only Axis2 is going to move to a TLP and directly
related sub projects will be under that as subprojects.
> I agree that there are a lot of jiras and incomplete web sits. The reason
> for this is lack of time committees getting to work on these project due to
> various personal reasons. So I think this is a different issue which can not
> be addressed by going for TLP.
>
> For an example both Ajith and Chinthaka were very active committers in this
> project. But now they only participate in discussions. Can we expect any
> change after going TLP? Lets say Deepal going to fix 50 issues after going
> TLP, why he can not do it now? (Here I have nothing make personal I try to
> explain what I want to say)
True - As I have mentioned numerous times earlier there is not going
to be any magic that solves
our problems when Axis2 is moved to TLP. Instead we get a focused
commiterbase and a PMC. When we attract
committers we get to them to a more focused project. There is not
going to be anything new happening
with the current committers. instead we spare the confusion to all the newbies.
>
>
>>
>> >
>> > Anyway, why I don't agree is I don't see a problem with the current
>> > way. Even if there is a problem, I still don't see how things will be
>> > better if we go to multiple TLPs.
>> My concern is , Axis2 does not get what it is supposed to get. It is
>> just stay inside something called WS. While some other Web service
>> project acting as TLP.
>
> Well, are you saying that being a TLP a prestigious status? Of course this
> is a personal thing and I am not thinking like that. If so that is a
> different concern.
There is a sense of independence and an expanded state of visibility
in being a TLP. Why do you
think the new projects graduating from incubator want to go TLP
directly rather than hanging around as
subprojects of an umbrella ? why is it that we see most of the
donated projects (say hadoop and lucene from Yahoo or
xmlbeans from BEA) becoming TLP's rather than settling down as
subprojects ? IMHO the expanded visibility
gives better opportunities to market themselves and also help them
increase their focused commiterbase.
>
>
> thanks,
> Amila.
>>
--
Ajith Ranabahu
Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Amila Suriarachchi <am...@gmail.com>.
hi,
By going through all these discussions what I can think of is that going for
TLP neither make it better nor worse.
Ok why do you want to move Axiom out from Axis2 , because it has a big
> advantage when it is there in WS than in Axis2.
yes. The advantage here is that they have separate svn and they can have
independent releases. Axis2 can depends on particular Axiom Version while
people developing Axiom. or Rampart/Sandesha can use a pirticular
Axis2 version (if need) and can have independent releases.
So in this scene WS project has broken things into separate manageable
components with the time. Of course this has happened generally with the
time and may happen in future as well.
What is the big management advantage we get moving them to TLPs?
I agree that there are a lot of jiras and incomplete web sits. The reason
for this is lack of time committees getting to work on these project due to
various personal reasons. So I think this is a different issue which can not
be addressed by going for TLP.
For an example both Ajith and Chinthaka were very active committers in this
project. But now they only participate in discussions. Can we expect any
change after going TLP? Lets say Deepal going to fix 50 issues after going
TLP, why he can not do it now? (Here I have nothing make personal I try to
explain what I want to say)
> >
> > Anyway, why I don't agree is I don't see a problem with the current
> > way. Even if there is a problem, I still don't see how things will be
> > better if we go to multiple TLPs.
> My concern is , Axis2 does not get what it is supposed to get. It is
> just stay inside something called WS. While some other Web service
> project acting as TLP.
Well, are you saying that being a TLP a prestigious status? Of course this
is a personal thing and I am not thinking like that. If so that is a
different concern.
thanks,
Amila.
>
> >
>
>
> Deepal
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chinthaka
> >
>
>
> --
> Thank you!
>
>
> http://blogs.deepal.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Amila Suriarachchi
WSO2 Inc.
blog: http://amilachinthaka.blogspot.com/
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
>> derstand what you mean , yes they should not come under Axis2 ,
>> and in fact we should try to get Axiom as a TLP (im not sure about
>> Neethi).
>>
>
> Why not Neethi a TLP if AXIOM is so?
Hehe , no problem I really like if we can push as much as we can as TLP.
The main reason I point out that we should make Axiom is TLP , is it has
nothing to do with Web services or SOAP it is a streaming API for XML
processing. So in my view it is like DOM.
Deepal
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
>> derstand what you mean , yes they should not come under Axis2 ,
>> and in fact we should try to get Axiom as a TLP (im not sure about
>> Neethi).
>>
>
> Why not Neethi a TLP if AXIOM is so?
Hehe , no problem I really like if we can push as much as we can as TLP.
The main reason I point out that we should make Axiom is TLP , is it has
nothing to do with Web services or SOAP it is a streaming API for XML
processing. So in my view it is like DOM.
Deepal
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Samisa Abeysinghe <sa...@gmail.com>.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> Hi Sanjiva:
>>
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
>>
>>> Deepal, so just so I understand - are you saying you *don't* want to
>>> keep Axiom with Axis2?
>>>
>> I'm not sure about Deepal, but I don't in fact think keeping Axiom
>> under the Axis2 project (yes, even despite the acronym :)) makes
>> sense. In my version of the "new world order", Axis2 and the
>> components that are *Axis2-specific* (i.e. cannot profitably be used
>> outside Axis2) should be in the Axis2 project. The stuff that is
>> reusable and more generally focused (i.e. Axiom, Neethi, XmlSchema,
>> etc) should IMO remain in WS so it can continue to be shared.
>>
>> If we're talking about moving Axiom/Neethi/etc., then it really is
>> pretty much s/Web Services/Axis2/g and I wouldn't be in favor of that.
>>
> +1 .I understand what you mean , yes they should not come under Axis2 ,
> and in fact we should try to get Axiom as a TLP (im not sure about Neethi).
>
Why not Neethi a TLP if AXIOM is so?
Samisa...
> Deepal
>
>> --Glen
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
>
--
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
I'd certainly +1 a new TLP for Axiom. Given that its being used broadly by
others too I think that makes sense.
However there are complications there too - one of Axiom's KEY values is
its natural MTOM/XOP awareness. That's a bit hard to justify without the
relationship to SOAP. Under no condition can we lost that obviously as
that's one of the foundational bits of Axiom.
Also, I've always wanted to build a type-aware version of Axiom .. one
that parses directly out of the XML event stream into a typed data model.
I guess that's a bit of what SXC does too. (The other thing I've long
wanted to do is a to do a custom parser that avoids copying etc..)
However, a lot of this extra metadata for parsing would be coming from
WSDL etc. - which again will tie it to SOAP stuff.
Overall, I think the Axiom TLP makes most sense right now vs. an axis2 TLP
as that's the most standalone of the lot.
Sanjiva.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> Hi Sanjiva:
>>
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
>>> Deepal, so just so I understand - are you saying you *don't* want to
>>> keep Axiom with Axis2?
>> I'm not sure about Deepal, but I don't in fact think keeping Axiom
>> under the Axis2 project (yes, even despite the acronym :)) makes
>> sense. In my version of the "new world order", Axis2 and the
>> components that are *Axis2-specific* (i.e. cannot profitably be used
>> outside Axis2) should be in the Axis2 project. The stuff that is
>> reusable and more generally focused (i.e. Axiom, Neethi, XmlSchema,
>> etc) should IMO remain in WS so it can continue to be shared.
>>
>> If we're talking about moving Axiom/Neethi/etc., then it really is
>> pretty much s/Web Services/Axis2/g and I wouldn't be in favor of that.
> +1 .I understand what you mean , yes they should not come under Axis2 ,
> and in fact we should try to get Axiom as a TLP (im not sure about Neethi).
>
> Deepal
>> --Glen
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
> Hi Sanjiva:
>
> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
>> Deepal, so just so I understand - are you saying you *don't* want to
>> keep Axiom with Axis2?
>
> I'm not sure about Deepal, but I don't in fact think keeping Axiom
> under the Axis2 project (yes, even despite the acronym :)) makes
> sense. In my version of the "new world order", Axis2 and the
> components that are *Axis2-specific* (i.e. cannot profitably be used
> outside Axis2) should be in the Axis2 project. The stuff that is
> reusable and more generally focused (i.e. Axiom, Neethi, XmlSchema,
> etc) should IMO remain in WS so it can continue to be shared.
>
> If we're talking about moving Axiom/Neethi/etc., then it really is
> pretty much s/Web Services/Axis2/g and I wouldn't be in favor of that.
+1 .I understand what you mean , yes they should not come under Axis2 ,
and in fact we should try to get Axiom as a TLP (im not sure about Neethi).
Deepal
>
> --Glen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
--
Thank you!
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com>.
Hi Sanjiva:
Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
> Deepal, so just so I understand - are you saying you *don't* want to
> keep Axiom with Axis2?
I'm not sure about Deepal, but I don't in fact think keeping Axiom under
the Axis2 project (yes, even despite the acronym :)) makes sense. In my
version of the "new world order", Axis2 and the components that are
*Axis2-specific* (i.e. cannot profitably be used outside Axis2) should
be in the Axis2 project. The stuff that is reusable and more generally
focused (i.e. Axiom, Neethi, XmlSchema, etc) should IMO remain in WS so
it can continue to be shared.
If we're talking about moving Axiom/Neethi/etc., then it really is
pretty much s/Web Services/Axis2/g and I wouldn't be in favor of that.
--Glen
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
>>> hen they selected George W for the second time ;)
>> Ok why do you want to move Axiom out from Axis2 , because it has a big
>> advantage when it is there in WS than in Axis2.
>
> Deepal, so just so I understand - are you saying you *don't* want to
> keep Axiom with Axis2?
Yes we need to keep Axiom inside Axis2 I mean as a subproject .What I
mentioned was once we move Axiom as a separate subproject , we had a
number of good out comes.
- Visibility increased
- Project other than WS started to use that.
>
>> My concern is , Axis2 does not get what it is supposed to get. It is
>> just stay inside something called WS. While some other Web service
>> project acting as TLP.
>
> What exactly is axis2 to "supposed to get" that its not getting. Dims
> feels that the community is sleeping (paraphrasing) and thinks that
> going TLP will change that. You seem to think that there's other stuff
> we're spsed to get - please indicate what that is?
Axis2 should not hide under WS , it has to be more than that.
For example if I want to find some of the good project in company X
what I should do is I go to that home page of company X and see whats
there. However the probability of going inside and inside and check to
see whether there are any more project is very less. Well I am talking
about my self , but I believe I am not the only person doing that in
this world.
>
>> I am sorry I do not want to rename WS into something other than Axis2.
>> If we are going to rename then that should be into Axis2 (which include
>> both java and c).
>
> So again, what does s/ws/axis2/g buy us?
Visibility , and users tend to believe that Axis2 is not yet another sub
project in Axis2. At the moment it has an unnecessary wrapper called WS
around Axis2 , IMO which is not needed.
Deepal
>
> Sanjiva.
--
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
>>> hen they selected George W for the second time ;)
>> Ok why do you want to move Axiom out from Axis2 , because it has a big
>> advantage when it is there in WS than in Axis2.
>
> Deepal, so just so I understand - are you saying you *don't* want to
> keep Axiom with Axis2?
Yes we need to keep Axiom inside Axis2 I mean as a subproject .What I
mentioned was once we move Axiom as a separate subproject , we had a
number of good out comes.
- Visibility increased
- Project other than WS started to use that.
>
>> My concern is , Axis2 does not get what it is supposed to get. It is
>> just stay inside something called WS. While some other Web service
>> project acting as TLP.
>
> What exactly is axis2 to "supposed to get" that its not getting. Dims
> feels that the community is sleeping (paraphrasing) and thinks that
> going TLP will change that. You seem to think that there's other stuff
> we're spsed to get - please indicate what that is?
Axis2 should not hide under WS , it has to be more than that.
For example if I want to find some of the good project in company X
what I should do is I go to that home page of company X and see whats
there. However the probability of going inside and inside and check to
see whether there are any more project is very less. Well I am talking
about my self , but I believe I am not the only person doing that in
this world.
>
>> I am sorry I do not want to rename WS into something other than Axis2.
>> If we are going to rename then that should be into Axis2 (which include
>> both java and c).
>
> So again, what does s/ws/axis2/g buy us?
Visibility , and users tend to believe that Axis2 is not yet another sub
project in Axis2. At the moment it has an unnecessary wrapper called WS
around Axis2 , IMO which is not needed.
Deepal
>
> Sanjiva.
--
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> Ajith, its the nature of people and you can not understand them. I
>> still can not understand why you want to split. See the same argument.
>> If we could understand people well, then perhaps we would not have
>> been surprised when they selected George W for the second time ;)
> Ok why do you want to move Axiom out from Axis2 , because it has a big
> advantage when it is there in WS than in Axis2.
Deepal, so just so I understand - are you saying you *don't* want to keep
Axiom with Axis2?
> My concern is , Axis2 does not get what it is supposed to get. It is
> just stay inside something called WS. While some other Web service
> project acting as TLP.
What exactly is axis2 to "supposed to get" that its not getting. Dims
feels that the community is sleeping (paraphrasing) and thinks that going
TLP will change that. You seem to think that there's other stuff we're
spsed to get - please indicate what that is?
> I am sorry I do not want to rename WS into something other than Axis2.
> If we are going to rename then that should be into Axis2 (which include
> both java and c).
So again, what does s/ws/axis2/g buy us?
Sanjiva.
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
>
> Ajith, its the nature of people and you can not understand them. I
> still can not understand why you want to split. See the same argument.
> If we could understand people well, then perhaps we would not have
> been surprised when they selected George W for the second time ;)
Ok why do you want to move Axiom out from Axis2 , because it has a big
advantage when it is there in WS than in Axis2.
>
> Anyway, why I don't agree is I don't see a problem with the current
> way. Even if there is a problem, I still don't see how things will be
> better if we go to multiple TLPs.
My concern is , Axis2 does not get what it is supposed to get. It is
just stay inside something called WS. While some other Web service
project acting as TLP.
>
> Ok if your argument is about the name WS, as Deepal suggested let's
> rename this to something else. Say Kurumba ;) (Ok that was meant to be
> a joke, just to be clear)
I am sorry I do not want to rename WS into something other than Axis2.
If we are going to rename then that should be into Axis2 (which include
both java and c).
Deepal
>
> Thanks,
> Chinthaka
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
My comments are inline
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 11:27 PM, Eran Chinthaka
<er...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I thought of not giving any inputs to this as once it seemed things were
> getting personal. But let me try once again.
>
I assure you - nothing personal :)
> Let me first understand something. Isn't this a problem that should be
> discussed or voted, if required, in PMC, as this is about project
> management. Why this is raised in dev list without any consent in PMC? I
> know this decision will affect devs too, but ....
>
> If its ok to discuss these issues in dev lists, without any decision in PMC,
> I think it is best to cc other mailing lists too.( I can remember Dims
> sending this mail to general list initially. )
I think we had enough chat about this in the PMC and if you remember
how the conversation ended, we needed more
input. dev@ and general@ seems to be the right place to do so.
> Also if there is a vote can committers vote?
>
I don't think so. I look at this thread as a means of getting more
input from a crowd with broader interest. Once the things are done the
vote would (could) be in PMC.
> Please don't take any of those questions personal. I am just trying to
> understand.
>
> Please see my comments in-line.
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:04 PM, Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> I should kick myself for not reading Axis2 mail frequently. I just
>> spent 20 minutes reading the complete thread and just throwing my 2
>> cents.
>>
>
> Ajith, its the nature of people and you can not understand them. I still
> can not understand why you want to split. See the same argument. If we could
> understand people well, then perhaps we would not have been surprised when
> they selected George W for the second time ;)
>
Yes I agree people are unpredictable animals :) Atleast there was no such
strong arguments to/against the move in the PMC list.
> Anyway, why I don't agree is I don't see a problem with the current way.
> Even if there is a problem, I still don't see how things will be better if
> we go to multiple TLPs.
Here is a case that might take us back to the past. why was it that we
did not start
sandesha as a module of Axis but rather a separate sub project ? Why did we move
Axiom, savan,rampart and every bit of reusable functionality out of
the main Axis2 source tree ?
With functionality comes specialization and this separation makes each
of these little projects
manageable. Now the same argument gets applied to Axis2 since Axis2
has become a large
(if not the largest) portion of WS. it has achieved its own
specialization and own set of
followers
As I noted earlier - things are not going to get fixed automagically.
it just becomes easier to
manage. There is a chance that a renewed strength and motivation
sweeping through the committer base
if we make a move but that is not guaranteed or relied on.
>
>>
>> 2. I have to agree to Dims that we have not been active as usual.
>> There are open Jira's and I haven't had time to fix the few things
>> that are pending in my niche projects (XMLSchema and tcpmon) let alone
>> in Axis2.
>
> Ajith, I don't agree with you here. Axis2 now has a new breed of developers
> who are happily working on various components. People will be inactive for
> various reasons, but that is the nature of opensource projects.
Those new people work on Axis2. They don't contribute to WS as a
whole (meaning other Axis2 unrelated projects such as juddi,muse or
scout) but work on very specific Axis2 components. What would be the
more appropriate choice when it comes to committership ? Give them
committership in the Axis2 project or give them committership in WS ?
>
>>
>> 3. I've been told that (before my time in Apache) that it is
>> discouraged to put projects in an umbrella of functionality, say like
>> in ws* or xml*. Instead Apache has embraced the
>> related-or-not-related-but-interesting type of project names with
>> 'projects' and not umbrellas. Just to make it clear does the words
>> jackrabbit, lucene, synapse, Mina or Lenya make any hint of what the
>> project actually does ? So i don't see the point of keeping Axis2
>> under the umbrella of ws* anymore. if the ws* argument to hold I would
>> say all other Apache projects that provide the SOAP stack capability
>> should come under ws* as well (such as CXF)
>
> Ok if your argument is about the name WS, as Deepal suggested let's rename
> this to something else. Say Kurumba ;) (Ok that was meant to be a joke, just
> to be clear)
>
kurumba would have been fine (for the sake of the argument) since I
can't see what motivated a name like jackrabbit :) [no pun intended on
jackrabbit folks. For the clueless , Kurumba refers to the young
coconut where the water inside is sweet. However there are many other
uses of the word if you care to google]. My argument is there is no
harm done in moving to a project that seemingly has an obscure (?)
name. Apache has been doing it all along.
As for the Java and C versions, I believe they are like siblings. They
are both part of the Axis2 echo system. I am not at all in favor of
dropping the C half if we move on to a TLP.
--
Ajith Ranabahu
Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Eran Chinthaka <er...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I thought of not giving any inputs to this as once it seemed things were
getting personal. But let me try once again.
Let me first understand something. Isn't this a problem that should be
discussed or voted, if required, in PMC, as this is about project
management. Why this is raised in dev list without any consent in PMC? I
know this decision will affect devs too, but ....
If its ok to discuss these issues in dev lists, without any decision in PMC,
I think it is best to cc other mailing lists too.( I can remember Dims
sending this mail to general list initially. )
Also if there is a vote can committers vote?
Please don't take any of those questions personal. I am just trying to
understand.
Please see my comments in-line.
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:04 PM, Ajith Ranabahu
<aj...@gmail.com>wrote:
> I should kick myself for not reading Axis2 mail frequently. I just
> spent 20 minutes reading the complete thread and just throwing my 2
> cents.
>
> 1. I am +1 (not a vote, a token of agreement) on making Axis2 a TLP.
> I have supported the decision in the PMC and I am still in support for
> it. As Deepal says I don't understand why people are so much worried
> about making Axis2 a TLP. We have kept all the major components as
> subprojects so far and what difference would it make if we house them
> in a different place ?
Ajith, its the nature of people and you can not understand them. I still
can not understand why you want to split. See the same argument. If we could
understand people well, then perhaps we would not have been surprised when
they selected George W for the second time ;)
Anyway, why I don't agree is I don't see a problem with the current way.
Even if there is a problem, I still don't see how things will be better if
we go to multiple TLPs.
>
>
> 2. I have to agree to Dims that we have not been active as usual.
> There are open Jira's and I haven't had time to fix the few things
> that are pending in my niche projects (XMLSchema and tcpmon) let alone
> in Axis2.
Ajith, I don't agree with you here. Axis2 now has a new breed of developers
who are happily working on various components. People will be inactive for
various reasons, but that is the nature of opensource projects.
> 3. I've been told that (before my time in Apache) that it is
> discouraged to put projects in an umbrella of functionality, say like
> in ws* or xml*. Instead Apache has embraced the
> related-or-not-related-but-interesting type of project names with
> 'projects' and not umbrellas. Just to make it clear does the words
> jackrabbit, lucene, synapse, Mina or Lenya make any hint of what the
> project actually does ? So i don't see the point of keeping Axis2
> under the umbrella of ws* anymore. if the ws* argument to hold I would
> say all other Apache projects that provide the SOAP stack capability
> should come under ws* as well (such as CXF)
Ok if your argument is about the name WS, as Deepal suggested let's rename
this to something else. Say Kurumba ;) (Ok that was meant to be a joke, just
to be clear)
Thanks,
Chinthaka
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
You must have misunderstood me.
Paul
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Serves me right to open my mouth. Sorry won't happen again.
>
> -- dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ah the glory days when you were Veep!
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>>
>>> -- dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Samisa,
>>>>
>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>
>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
>>>>> has.
>>>>>
>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>
>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul Fremantle
>> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
>> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
>> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>>
>> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
>> paul@wso2.com
>>
>> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
Apache Synapse PMC Chair
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
I've given concrete examples if you bothered to read my emails. At
this point, i'll say get lost!
thanks,
dims
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> If you want to have a conversation about this topic then you should be ready
> to explain your statements. You have made bold statements about how things
> have gone down hill but yet you have no explanation except some attempt at a
> smart-ass response. Doesn't quite work.
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the deep insight and pointing out my double standards.
>>
>> -- dims
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch??
>>>
>>> I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis you're
>>> claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be".
>>>
>>> Sanjiva.
>>>
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>>>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>>>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>>>
>>>> -- dims
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Samisa,
>>>>>
>>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> dims
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even
>>>>>> after
>>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will
>>>>>> remain.
>>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>>>> projects,
>>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a
>>>>>> useless
>>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub
>>>>>> projects
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> has.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems.
>>>>>> However,
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas
>>>>>>>> <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them.
>>>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related
>>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where
>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates
>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again.
>>>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>
>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
Deepal
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com> wrote:
> VOTE is the final thing , and I still can not understand why most the
> people do not want to make Axis2 TLP.
I'm very happy to have Axis2 as a TLP including both Java and C.
Paul
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
Apache Synapse PMC Chair
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
If you want to have a conversation about this topic then you should be
ready to explain your statements. You have made bold statements about how
things have gone down hill but yet you have no explanation except some
attempt at a smart-ass response. Doesn't quite work.
Sanjiva.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Thanks for the deep insight and pointing out my double standards.
>
> -- dims
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>> Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch??
>>
>> I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis you're
>> claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be".
>>
>> Sanjiva.
>>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>>
>>> -- dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Samisa,
>>>>
>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>
>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>
>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even
>>>>> after
>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>>> projects,
>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a
>>>>> useless
>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects
>>>>> it
>>>>> has.
>>>>>
>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
>>>>> I
>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them.
>>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related
>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again.
>>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>
>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>> --
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>
>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
If you want to have a conversation about this topic then you should be
ready to explain your statements. You have made bold statements about how
things have gone down hill but yet you have no explanation except some
attempt at a smart-ass response. Doesn't quite work.
Sanjiva.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Thanks for the deep insight and pointing out my double standards.
>
> -- dims
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>> Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch??
>>
>> I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis you're
>> claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be".
>>
>> Sanjiva.
>>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>>
>>> -- dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Samisa,
>>>>
>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>
>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>
>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even
>>>>> after
>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>>> projects,
>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a
>>>>> useless
>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects
>>>>> it
>>>>> has.
>>>>>
>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
>>>>> I
>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them.
>>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related
>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again.
>>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>
>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>> --
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>
>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for the deep insight and pointing out my double standards.
-- dims
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch??
>
> I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis you're
> claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be".
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>
>> -- dims
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Samisa,
>>>
>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>> board and to our end users.
>>>
>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>
>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even
>>>> after
>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>> projects,
>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a
>>>> useless
>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects
>>>> it
>>>> has.
>>>>
>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
>>>> I
>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>
>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>
>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>
>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>> saying.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> dims
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them.
>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related
>>>>>> projects
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> go
>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again.
>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Eran Chinthaka <er...@gmail.com>.
Hi Glen,
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com> wrote:
> A few quick comments:
>
> 1) I don't think things are as bad as some of this thread has implied.
> There are always ebbs and flows of time and effort on projects, and although
> there ARE a lot of open JIRAs, etc, it's not as if nothing has been getting
> done - for instance, 1.4.1 wasn't very long ago at all! That said, it is
> certainly true that regardless of the structure we end up with, it would be
> great if we could tighten our focus, reduce the JIRA count, and generally
> move towards higher quality across the project(s).
Exactly. There is nothing new a TLP will help us to improve our project.
>
>
> 2) I do still think a separate TLP is a good idea for Axis and its
> subordinate technologies - in other words things that ONLY work with Axis2,
> like a) modules, and b) transports. I think commonly used libraries like
> XmlSchema and Axiom and Neethi should remain in WS, since they're also used
> outside of Axis2 by Abdera, CXF, etc. etc. So basically I'm still pushing
> for my original proposal. :)
Why do you think it is needed? Some people argued here that it will improve
the efficiency of the project, improve the JIRA count, etc.,. But you
mentioned it will not be the case, in point 1) above. So why are you pushing
for a new TLP? What will we gain? What if we stay as it is?
The only advantage I see is that if we move to a new TLP, we will get a
project which only has components related to Axis2. That is a nice to have
thing than a big advantage. In that case, why do we wanna leave Axiom and
XmlSchema?
Thanks,
Chinthaka
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com>.
A few quick comments:
1) I don't think things are as bad as some of this thread has implied.
There are always ebbs and flows of time and effort on projects, and
although there ARE a lot of open JIRAs, etc, it's not as if nothing has
been getting done - for instance, 1.4.1 wasn't very long ago at all!
That said, it is certainly true that regardless of the structure we end
up with, it would be great if we could tighten our focus, reduce the
JIRA count, and generally move towards higher quality across the project(s).
2) I do still think a separate TLP is a good idea for Axis and its
subordinate technologies - in other words things that ONLY work with
Axis2, like a) modules, and b) transports. I think commonly used
libraries like XmlSchema and Axiom and Neethi should remain in WS, since
they're also used outside of Axis2 by Abdera, CXF, etc. etc. So
basically I'm still pushing for my original proposal. :)
3) As you may have noticed if you're on general@, I posted a draft
proposal to promote Axis2 to TLP, and move Rampart, Sandeshsa, Kandula,
Savan, and transports over there - this at least gives us something
concrete to look at. Please feel free to comment/edit at will, or to
put up alternates.
Thoughts?
--Glen
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com>.
A few quick comments:
1) I don't think things are as bad as some of this thread has implied.
There are always ebbs and flows of time and effort on projects, and
although there ARE a lot of open JIRAs, etc, it's not as if nothing has
been getting done - for instance, 1.4.1 wasn't very long ago at all!
That said, it is certainly true that regardless of the structure we end
up with, it would be great if we could tighten our focus, reduce the
JIRA count, and generally move towards higher quality across the project(s).
2) I do still think a separate TLP is a good idea for Axis and its
subordinate technologies - in other words things that ONLY work with
Axis2, like a) modules, and b) transports. I think commonly used
libraries like XmlSchema and Axiom and Neethi should remain in WS, since
they're also used outside of Axis2 by Abdera, CXF, etc. etc. So
basically I'm still pushing for my original proposal. :)
3) As you may have noticed if you're on general@, I posted a draft
proposal to promote Axis2 to TLP, and move Rampart, Sandeshsa, Kandula,
Savan, and transports over there - this at least gives us something
concrete to look at. Please feel free to comment/edit at will, or to
put up alternates.
Thoughts?
--Glen
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
Hi Ajith,
+1 , Very well said.
Thank you!
Deepal
> I should kick myself for not reading Axis2 mail frequently. I just
> spent 20 minutes reading the complete thread and just throwing my 2
> cents.
>
> 1. I am +1 (not a vote, a token of agreement) on making Axis2 a TLP.
> I have supported the decision in the PMC and I am still in support for
> it. As Deepal says I don't understand why people are so much worried
> about making Axis2 a TLP. We have kept all the major components as
> subprojects so far and what difference would it make if we house them
> in a different place ?
>
> 2. I have to agree to Dims that we have not been active as usual.
> There are open Jira's and I haven't had time to fix the few things
> that are pending in my niche projects (XMLSchema and tcpmon) let alone
> in Axis2. However I personally feel that it would be easier to do a
> better job (better than being done right now) if the teams are small
> and focused rather than generic and all over the place. Again the
> volume and the size clearly warrants a break just for the ease of
> management. Mind you - it would not automatically fix the problem -
> the site would not get fixed by magic and the Jiras would not vanish.
> However it may make it easier to do so.
> For the sake of the argument if a disgruntled user goes on commenting
> about Axis2 he would be shooting at the ws pmc. But the WS pmc
> consists of many other innocent PMCers that have nothing to do with
> Axis2! if we have clear separation then the responsibilities are
> clear.
>
> 3. I've been told that (before my time in Apache) that it is
> discouraged to put projects in an umbrella of functionality, say like
> in ws* or xml*. Instead Apache has embraced the
> related-or-not-related-but-interesting type of project names with
> 'projects' and not umbrellas. Just to make it clear does the words
> jackrabbit, lucene, synapse, Mina or Lenya make any hint of what the
> project actually does ? So i don't see the point of keeping Axis2
> under the umbrella of ws* anymore. if the ws* argument to hold I would
> say all other Apache projects that provide the SOAP stack capability
> should come under ws* as well (such as CXF)
>
> 4. I don't suppose there is anyone with a secret (evil ;P) agenda of
> becoming the member of two PMC's supporting the split. But as I
> pointed out earlier ws has grown out of its bounds and its time we
> split things up for the sake of managing the complexity. Who we put as
> the chair is a different question and hopefully would be selected the
> democratic way (or by just looking at the mail count :D)
>
> For my final conclusion I am in support of this proposal.
>
> Ajith
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
Hi Ajith,
+1 , Very well said.
Thank you!
Deepal
> I should kick myself for not reading Axis2 mail frequently. I just
> spent 20 minutes reading the complete thread and just throwing my 2
> cents.
>
> 1. I am +1 (not a vote, a token of agreement) on making Axis2 a TLP.
> I have supported the decision in the PMC and I am still in support for
> it. As Deepal says I don't understand why people are so much worried
> about making Axis2 a TLP. We have kept all the major components as
> subprojects so far and what difference would it make if we house them
> in a different place ?
>
> 2. I have to agree to Dims that we have not been active as usual.
> There are open Jira's and I haven't had time to fix the few things
> that are pending in my niche projects (XMLSchema and tcpmon) let alone
> in Axis2. However I personally feel that it would be easier to do a
> better job (better than being done right now) if the teams are small
> and focused rather than generic and all over the place. Again the
> volume and the size clearly warrants a break just for the ease of
> management. Mind you - it would not automatically fix the problem -
> the site would not get fixed by magic and the Jiras would not vanish.
> However it may make it easier to do so.
> For the sake of the argument if a disgruntled user goes on commenting
> about Axis2 he would be shooting at the ws pmc. But the WS pmc
> consists of many other innocent PMCers that have nothing to do with
> Axis2! if we have clear separation then the responsibilities are
> clear.
>
> 3. I've been told that (before my time in Apache) that it is
> discouraged to put projects in an umbrella of functionality, say like
> in ws* or xml*. Instead Apache has embraced the
> related-or-not-related-but-interesting type of project names with
> 'projects' and not umbrellas. Just to make it clear does the words
> jackrabbit, lucene, synapse, Mina or Lenya make any hint of what the
> project actually does ? So i don't see the point of keeping Axis2
> under the umbrella of ws* anymore. if the ws* argument to hold I would
> say all other Apache projects that provide the SOAP stack capability
> should come under ws* as well (such as CXF)
>
> 4. I don't suppose there is anyone with a secret (evil ;P) agenda of
> becoming the member of two PMC's supporting the split. But as I
> pointed out earlier ws has grown out of its bounds and its time we
> split things up for the sake of managing the complexity. Who we put as
> the chair is a different question and hopefully would be selected the
> democratic way (or by just looking at the mail count :D)
>
> For my final conclusion I am in support of this proposal.
>
> Ajith
>
>
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Re: Fwd: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Lahiru Sandakith Gallege <sa...@gmail.com>.
Yes, I am in sync with this thought too..
Not only Java and C , All the other related bits and pieces needed to be
nicely arranged (Clean and Comfortable) in a hierarchy if Axis2* needed to
be a TLP.
*(sub projects, tools etc But not dependent projects of course if they are
mature enough.. I agree on that there will be gray areas on how to decide
this but still.. i guess the community needed to agree on which part goes
where ..)
I do not think Axis2 currently doing a bad job on that, but still believes
there is more to do..
Just my thoughts ..
Thanks
Lahiru Sandakith
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 3:11 AM, Afkham Azeez <af...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, I also agree that this is the proper thing to do, if ever Axis2 is
> made a TLP.
>
> Azeez
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Ruchith Fernando <
> ruchith.fernando@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> IMHO Axis2 project as a TLP should be both Java and C.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ruchith
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Manjula Peiris <ma...@wso2.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Sat, 2008-11-01 at 09:23 +0530, Samisa Abeysinghe wrote:
>> >> It looks to me that the amount of confusion and frustration
>> demonstrated
>> >> in this thread is due to the mix of topics that we are discussing under
>> >> the single topic, namely TLP.
>> >>
>> >> Some of the matters are not really TLP related.
>> >>
>> >> On one hand, there is talk about dropping C out of the picture, while
>> >> making Axis2 a TLP. So natural tenancy from the C folks is a big NO.
>> >> So is that equivalent to saying, no we do not need a TLP? Not really.
>> >
>> > Yes as a contributor to Axis2/C project my main concern is also on
>> > dropping out Axis2/C out of the picture. If we separate out these two
>> > projects it may affect Axis2/C project, and I don't think Axis2 will
>> > benefited from that either.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Then there are questions related to activeness. And I do agree that it
>> >> is a real problem, that needs to be solved. But IMHO I have doubts if a
>> >> TLP would solve it.
>> >>
>> >> We need a clear list of things that we might be doing, when we become a
>> >> TLP. And that list must obviously include the list of projects that
>> will
>> >> go under that TLP etc.
>> >>
>> >> Then we also need a separate list, that outlines problems that we have
>> >> in the current setup. Including those that might be solved with TLP as
>> >> well as those that might not.
>> >>
>> >> And if we can agree on the above, then we have to identify a media to
>> >> collect those lists. A mailing list thread like this is distorting when
>> >> it comes to listing things IMHO, so we might need a Wiki that everyone
>> >> can edit.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Samisa...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ajith Ranabahu wrote:
>> >> > missed general@
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> >> > From: Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>
>> >> > Date: Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:04 PM
>> >> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
>> >> > To: axis-dev@ws.apache.org
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I should kick myself for not reading Axis2 mail frequently. I just
>> >> > spent 20 minutes reading the complete thread and just throwing my 2
>> >> > cents.
>> >> >
>> >> > 1. I am +1 (not a vote, a token of agreement) on making Axis2 a TLP.
>> >> > I have supported the decision in the PMC and I am still in support
>> for
>> >> > it. As Deepal says I don't understand why people are so much worried
>> >> > about making Axis2 a TLP. We have kept all the major components as
>> >> > subprojects so far and what difference would it make if we house them
>> >> > in a different place ?
>> >> >
>> >> > 2. I have to agree to Dims that we have not been active as usual.
>> >> > There are open Jira's and I haven't had time to fix the few things
>> >> > that are pending in my niche projects (XMLSchema and tcpmon) let
>> alone
>> >> > in Axis2. However I personally feel that it would be easier to do a
>> >> > better job (better than being done right now) if the teams are small
>> >> > and focused rather than generic and all over the place. Again the
>> >> > volume and the size clearly warrants a break just for the ease of
>> >> > management. Mind you - it would not automatically fix the problem -
>> >> > the site would not get fixed by magic and the Jiras would not vanish.
>> >> > However it may make it easier to do so.
>> >> > For the sake of the argument if a disgruntled user goes on commenting
>> >> > about Axis2 he would be shooting at the ws pmc. But the WS pmc
>> >> > consists of many other innocent PMCers that have nothing to do with
>> >> > Axis2! if we have clear separation then the responsibilities are
>> >> > clear.
>> >> >
>> >> > 3. I've been told that (before my time in Apache) that it is
>> >> > discouraged to put projects in an umbrella of functionality, say like
>> >> > in ws* or xml*. Instead Apache has embraced the
>> >> > related-or-not-related-but-interesting type of project names with
>> >> > 'projects' and not umbrellas. Just to make it clear does the words
>> >> > jackrabbit, lucene, synapse, Mina or Lenya make any hint of what the
>> >> > project actually does ? So i don't see the point of keeping Axis2
>> >> > under the umbrella of ws* anymore. if the ws* argument to hold I
>> would
>> >> > say all other Apache projects that provide the SOAP stack capability
>> >> > should come under ws* as well (such as CXF)
>> >> >
>> >> > 4. I don't suppose there is anyone with a secret (evil ;P) agenda of
>> >> > becoming the member of two PMC's supporting the split. But as I
>> >> > pointed out earlier ws has grown out of its bounds and its time we
>> >> > split things up for the sake of managing the complexity. Who we put
>> as
>> >> > the chair is a different question and hopefully would be selected the
>> >> > democratic way (or by just looking at the mail count :D)
>> >> >
>> >> > For my final conclusion I am in support of this proposal.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ajith
>> >> >
>> >> > On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Davanum Srinivas <
>> davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Though given Paul's and other people's response.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> Dims, my response was a light-hearted comment on the situation, and
>> >> >> made no reference to whether or not Axis2 should be a TLP. I'm sorry
>> >> >> if you took it in a way it wasn't meant to be taken, but I certainly
>> >> >> wasn't making any comment against the proposal. I am in favour of
>> >> >> making Axis2 a TLP, and I'm surprised if anything I have said led
>> you
>> >> >> or anyone else to think otherwise.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Paul
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Paul Fremantle
>> >> >> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
>> >> >> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
>> >> >> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>> >> >>
>> >> >> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
>> >> >> paul@wso2.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Ajith Ranabahu
>> >> >
>> >> > Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
>> >> > creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
>> >> > too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://blog.ruchith.org
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Thanks
> Afkham Azeez
>
> Blog: http://afkham.org
> Developer Portal: http://www.wso2.org
> WSAS Blog: http://wso2wsas.blogspot.com
> Company: http://wso2.com
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>
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Thanks
Lahiru Sandakith Gallege
http://sandakith.wordpress.com/
http://www.cs.iupui.edu/~lspileth/ <http://www.cs.iupui.edu/%7Elspileth/>
GPG Key Fingerprint : 8CD8 68E0 4CBC 75CB 25BC 1AB1 FE5E 7464 1F01 9A0F
Re: Fwd: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Afkham Azeez <af...@gmail.com>.
Yes, I also agree that this is the proper thing to do, if ever Axis2 is made
a TLP.
Azeez
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Ruchith Fernando <
ruchith.fernando@gmail.com> wrote:
> IMHO Axis2 project as a TLP should be both Java and C.
>
> Thanks,
> Ruchith
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Manjula Peiris <ma...@wso2.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 2008-11-01 at 09:23 +0530, Samisa Abeysinghe wrote:
> >> It looks to me that the amount of confusion and frustration demonstrated
> >> in this thread is due to the mix of topics that we are discussing under
> >> the single topic, namely TLP.
> >>
> >> Some of the matters are not really TLP related.
> >>
> >> On one hand, there is talk about dropping C out of the picture, while
> >> making Axis2 a TLP. So natural tenancy from the C folks is a big NO.
> >> So is that equivalent to saying, no we do not need a TLP? Not really.
> >
> > Yes as a contributor to Axis2/C project my main concern is also on
> > dropping out Axis2/C out of the picture. If we separate out these two
> > projects it may affect Axis2/C project, and I don't think Axis2 will
> > benefited from that either.
> >
> >>
> >> Then there are questions related to activeness. And I do agree that it
> >> is a real problem, that needs to be solved. But IMHO I have doubts if a
> >> TLP would solve it.
> >>
> >> We need a clear list of things that we might be doing, when we become a
> >> TLP. And that list must obviously include the list of projects that will
> >> go under that TLP etc.
> >>
> >> Then we also need a separate list, that outlines problems that we have
> >> in the current setup. Including those that might be solved with TLP as
> >> well as those that might not.
> >>
> >> And if we can agree on the above, then we have to identify a media to
> >> collect those lists. A mailing list thread like this is distorting when
> >> it comes to listing things IMHO, so we might need a Wiki that everyone
> >> can edit.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Samisa...
> >>
> >>
> >> Ajith Ranabahu wrote:
> >> > missed general@
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> > From: Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>
> >> > Date: Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:04 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
> >> > To: axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I should kick myself for not reading Axis2 mail frequently. I just
> >> > spent 20 minutes reading the complete thread and just throwing my 2
> >> > cents.
> >> >
> >> > 1. I am +1 (not a vote, a token of agreement) on making Axis2 a TLP.
> >> > I have supported the decision in the PMC and I am still in support for
> >> > it. As Deepal says I don't understand why people are so much worried
> >> > about making Axis2 a TLP. We have kept all the major components as
> >> > subprojects so far and what difference would it make if we house them
> >> > in a different place ?
> >> >
> >> > 2. I have to agree to Dims that we have not been active as usual.
> >> > There are open Jira's and I haven't had time to fix the few things
> >> > that are pending in my niche projects (XMLSchema and tcpmon) let alone
> >> > in Axis2. However I personally feel that it would be easier to do a
> >> > better job (better than being done right now) if the teams are small
> >> > and focused rather than generic and all over the place. Again the
> >> > volume and the size clearly warrants a break just for the ease of
> >> > management. Mind you - it would not automatically fix the problem -
> >> > the site would not get fixed by magic and the Jiras would not vanish.
> >> > However it may make it easier to do so.
> >> > For the sake of the argument if a disgruntled user goes on commenting
> >> > about Axis2 he would be shooting at the ws pmc. But the WS pmc
> >> > consists of many other innocent PMCers that have nothing to do with
> >> > Axis2! if we have clear separation then the responsibilities are
> >> > clear.
> >> >
> >> > 3. I've been told that (before my time in Apache) that it is
> >> > discouraged to put projects in an umbrella of functionality, say like
> >> > in ws* or xml*. Instead Apache has embraced the
> >> > related-or-not-related-but-interesting type of project names with
> >> > 'projects' and not umbrellas. Just to make it clear does the words
> >> > jackrabbit, lucene, synapse, Mina or Lenya make any hint of what the
> >> > project actually does ? So i don't see the point of keeping Axis2
> >> > under the umbrella of ws* anymore. if the ws* argument to hold I would
> >> > say all other Apache projects that provide the SOAP stack capability
> >> > should come under ws* as well (such as CXF)
> >> >
> >> > 4. I don't suppose there is anyone with a secret (evil ;P) agenda of
> >> > becoming the member of two PMC's supporting the split. But as I
> >> > pointed out earlier ws has grown out of its bounds and its time we
> >> > split things up for the sake of managing the complexity. Who we put as
> >> > the chair is a different question and hopefully would be selected the
> >> > democratic way (or by just looking at the mail count :D)
> >> >
> >> > For my final conclusion I am in support of this proposal.
> >> >
> >> > Ajith
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Though given Paul's and other people's response.
> >> >>>
> >> >> Dims, my response was a light-hearted comment on the situation, and
> >> >> made no reference to whether or not Axis2 should be a TLP. I'm sorry
> >> >> if you took it in a way it wasn't meant to be taken, but I certainly
> >> >> wasn't making any comment against the proposal. I am in favour of
> >> >> making Axis2 a TLP, and I'm surprised if anything I have said led you
> >> >> or anyone else to think otherwise.
> >> >>
> >> >> Paul
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Paul Fremantle
> >> >> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
> >> >> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
> >> >> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
> >> >>
> >> >> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> >> >> paul@wso2.com
> >> >>
> >> >> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
> >> >>
> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Ajith Ranabahu
> >> >
> >> > Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
> >> > creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
> >> > too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://blog.ruchith.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Thanks
Afkham Azeez
Blog: http://afkham.org
Developer Portal: http://www.wso2.org
WSAS Blog: http://wso2wsas.blogspot.com
Company: http://wso2.com
GPG Fingerprint: 643F C2AF EB78 F886 40C9 B2A2 4AE2 C887 665E 0760
Re: Fwd: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Afkham Azeez <af...@gmail.com>.
Yes, I also agree that this is the proper thing to do, if ever Axis2 is made
a TLP.
Azeez
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Ruchith Fernando <
ruchith.fernando@gmail.com> wrote:
> IMHO Axis2 project as a TLP should be both Java and C.
>
> Thanks,
> Ruchith
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Manjula Peiris <ma...@wso2.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 2008-11-01 at 09:23 +0530, Samisa Abeysinghe wrote:
> >> It looks to me that the amount of confusion and frustration demonstrated
> >> in this thread is due to the mix of topics that we are discussing under
> >> the single topic, namely TLP.
> >>
> >> Some of the matters are not really TLP related.
> >>
> >> On one hand, there is talk about dropping C out of the picture, while
> >> making Axis2 a TLP. So natural tenancy from the C folks is a big NO.
> >> So is that equivalent to saying, no we do not need a TLP? Not really.
> >
> > Yes as a contributor to Axis2/C project my main concern is also on
> > dropping out Axis2/C out of the picture. If we separate out these two
> > projects it may affect Axis2/C project, and I don't think Axis2 will
> > benefited from that either.
> >
> >>
> >> Then there are questions related to activeness. And I do agree that it
> >> is a real problem, that needs to be solved. But IMHO I have doubts if a
> >> TLP would solve it.
> >>
> >> We need a clear list of things that we might be doing, when we become a
> >> TLP. And that list must obviously include the list of projects that will
> >> go under that TLP etc.
> >>
> >> Then we also need a separate list, that outlines problems that we have
> >> in the current setup. Including those that might be solved with TLP as
> >> well as those that might not.
> >>
> >> And if we can agree on the above, then we have to identify a media to
> >> collect those lists. A mailing list thread like this is distorting when
> >> it comes to listing things IMHO, so we might need a Wiki that everyone
> >> can edit.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Samisa...
> >>
> >>
> >> Ajith Ranabahu wrote:
> >> > missed general@
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> > From: Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>
> >> > Date: Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:04 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
> >> > To: axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I should kick myself for not reading Axis2 mail frequently. I just
> >> > spent 20 minutes reading the complete thread and just throwing my 2
> >> > cents.
> >> >
> >> > 1. I am +1 (not a vote, a token of agreement) on making Axis2 a TLP.
> >> > I have supported the decision in the PMC and I am still in support for
> >> > it. As Deepal says I don't understand why people are so much worried
> >> > about making Axis2 a TLP. We have kept all the major components as
> >> > subprojects so far and what difference would it make if we house them
> >> > in a different place ?
> >> >
> >> > 2. I have to agree to Dims that we have not been active as usual.
> >> > There are open Jira's and I haven't had time to fix the few things
> >> > that are pending in my niche projects (XMLSchema and tcpmon) let alone
> >> > in Axis2. However I personally feel that it would be easier to do a
> >> > better job (better than being done right now) if the teams are small
> >> > and focused rather than generic and all over the place. Again the
> >> > volume and the size clearly warrants a break just for the ease of
> >> > management. Mind you - it would not automatically fix the problem -
> >> > the site would not get fixed by magic and the Jiras would not vanish.
> >> > However it may make it easier to do so.
> >> > For the sake of the argument if a disgruntled user goes on commenting
> >> > about Axis2 he would be shooting at the ws pmc. But the WS pmc
> >> > consists of many other innocent PMCers that have nothing to do with
> >> > Axis2! if we have clear separation then the responsibilities are
> >> > clear.
> >> >
> >> > 3. I've been told that (before my time in Apache) that it is
> >> > discouraged to put projects in an umbrella of functionality, say like
> >> > in ws* or xml*. Instead Apache has embraced the
> >> > related-or-not-related-but-interesting type of project names with
> >> > 'projects' and not umbrellas. Just to make it clear does the words
> >> > jackrabbit, lucene, synapse, Mina or Lenya make any hint of what the
> >> > project actually does ? So i don't see the point of keeping Axis2
> >> > under the umbrella of ws* anymore. if the ws* argument to hold I would
> >> > say all other Apache projects that provide the SOAP stack capability
> >> > should come under ws* as well (such as CXF)
> >> >
> >> > 4. I don't suppose there is anyone with a secret (evil ;P) agenda of
> >> > becoming the member of two PMC's supporting the split. But as I
> >> > pointed out earlier ws has grown out of its bounds and its time we
> >> > split things up for the sake of managing the complexity. Who we put as
> >> > the chair is a different question and hopefully would be selected the
> >> > democratic way (or by just looking at the mail count :D)
> >> >
> >> > For my final conclusion I am in support of this proposal.
> >> >
> >> > Ajith
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Though given Paul's and other people's response.
> >> >>>
> >> >> Dims, my response was a light-hearted comment on the situation, and
> >> >> made no reference to whether or not Axis2 should be a TLP. I'm sorry
> >> >> if you took it in a way it wasn't meant to be taken, but I certainly
> >> >> wasn't making any comment against the proposal. I am in favour of
> >> >> making Axis2 a TLP, and I'm surprised if anything I have said led you
> >> >> or anyone else to think otherwise.
> >> >>
> >> >> Paul
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Paul Fremantle
> >> >> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
> >> >> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
> >> >> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
> >> >>
> >> >> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> >> >> paul@wso2.com
> >> >>
> >> >> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
> >> >>
> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Ajith Ranabahu
> >> >
> >> > Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
> >> > creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
> >> > too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://blog.ruchith.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Thanks
Afkham Azeez
Blog: http://afkham.org
Developer Portal: http://www.wso2.org
WSAS Blog: http://wso2wsas.blogspot.com
Company: http://wso2.com
GPG Fingerprint: 643F C2AF EB78 F886 40C9 B2A2 4AE2 C887 665E 0760
Re: Fwd: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Ruchith Fernando <ru...@gmail.com>.
IMHO Axis2 project as a TLP should be both Java and C.
Thanks,
Ruchith
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Manjula Peiris <ma...@wso2.com> wrote:
>
> On Sat, 2008-11-01 at 09:23 +0530, Samisa Abeysinghe wrote:
>> It looks to me that the amount of confusion and frustration demonstrated
>> in this thread is due to the mix of topics that we are discussing under
>> the single topic, namely TLP.
>>
>> Some of the matters are not really TLP related.
>>
>> On one hand, there is talk about dropping C out of the picture, while
>> making Axis2 a TLP. So natural tenancy from the C folks is a big NO.
>> So is that equivalent to saying, no we do not need a TLP? Not really.
>
> Yes as a contributor to Axis2/C project my main concern is also on
> dropping out Axis2/C out of the picture. If we separate out these two
> projects it may affect Axis2/C project, and I don't think Axis2 will
> benefited from that either.
>
>>
>> Then there are questions related to activeness. And I do agree that it
>> is a real problem, that needs to be solved. But IMHO I have doubts if a
>> TLP would solve it.
>>
>> We need a clear list of things that we might be doing, when we become a
>> TLP. And that list must obviously include the list of projects that will
>> go under that TLP etc.
>>
>> Then we also need a separate list, that outlines problems that we have
>> in the current setup. Including those that might be solved with TLP as
>> well as those that might not.
>>
>> And if we can agree on the above, then we have to identify a media to
>> collect those lists. A mailing list thread like this is distorting when
>> it comes to listing things IMHO, so we might need a Wiki that everyone
>> can edit.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Samisa...
>>
>>
>> Ajith Ranabahu wrote:
>> > missed general@
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > From: Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>
>> > Date: Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:04 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
>> > To: axis-dev@ws.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>> > I should kick myself for not reading Axis2 mail frequently. I just
>> > spent 20 minutes reading the complete thread and just throwing my 2
>> > cents.
>> >
>> > 1. I am +1 (not a vote, a token of agreement) on making Axis2 a TLP.
>> > I have supported the decision in the PMC and I am still in support for
>> > it. As Deepal says I don't understand why people are so much worried
>> > about making Axis2 a TLP. We have kept all the major components as
>> > subprojects so far and what difference would it make if we house them
>> > in a different place ?
>> >
>> > 2. I have to agree to Dims that we have not been active as usual.
>> > There are open Jira's and I haven't had time to fix the few things
>> > that are pending in my niche projects (XMLSchema and tcpmon) let alone
>> > in Axis2. However I personally feel that it would be easier to do a
>> > better job (better than being done right now) if the teams are small
>> > and focused rather than generic and all over the place. Again the
>> > volume and the size clearly warrants a break just for the ease of
>> > management. Mind you - it would not automatically fix the problem -
>> > the site would not get fixed by magic and the Jiras would not vanish.
>> > However it may make it easier to do so.
>> > For the sake of the argument if a disgruntled user goes on commenting
>> > about Axis2 he would be shooting at the ws pmc. But the WS pmc
>> > consists of many other innocent PMCers that have nothing to do with
>> > Axis2! if we have clear separation then the responsibilities are
>> > clear.
>> >
>> > 3. I've been told that (before my time in Apache) that it is
>> > discouraged to put projects in an umbrella of functionality, say like
>> > in ws* or xml*. Instead Apache has embraced the
>> > related-or-not-related-but-interesting type of project names with
>> > 'projects' and not umbrellas. Just to make it clear does the words
>> > jackrabbit, lucene, synapse, Mina or Lenya make any hint of what the
>> > project actually does ? So i don't see the point of keeping Axis2
>> > under the umbrella of ws* anymore. if the ws* argument to hold I would
>> > say all other Apache projects that provide the SOAP stack capability
>> > should come under ws* as well (such as CXF)
>> >
>> > 4. I don't suppose there is anyone with a secret (evil ;P) agenda of
>> > becoming the member of two PMC's supporting the split. But as I
>> > pointed out earlier ws has grown out of its bounds and its time we
>> > split things up for the sake of managing the complexity. Who we put as
>> > the chair is a different question and hopefully would be selected the
>> > democratic way (or by just looking at the mail count :D)
>> >
>> > For my final conclusion I am in support of this proposal.
>> >
>> > Ajith
>> >
>> > On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Though given Paul's and other people's response.
>> >>>
>> >> Dims, my response was a light-hearted comment on the situation, and
>> >> made no reference to whether or not Axis2 should be a TLP. I'm sorry
>> >> if you took it in a way it wasn't meant to be taken, but I certainly
>> >> wasn't making any comment against the proposal. I am in favour of
>> >> making Axis2 a TLP, and I'm surprised if anything I have said led you
>> >> or anyone else to think otherwise.
>> >>
>> >> Paul
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Paul Fremantle
>> >> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
>> >> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
>> >> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>> >>
>> >> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
>> >> paul@wso2.com
>> >>
>> >> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ajith Ranabahu
>> >
>> > Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
>> > creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
>> > too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
http://blog.ruchith.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
Re: Fwd: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Ruchith Fernando <ru...@gmail.com>.
IMHO Axis2 project as a TLP should be both Java and C.
Thanks,
Ruchith
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Manjula Peiris <ma...@wso2.com> wrote:
>
> On Sat, 2008-11-01 at 09:23 +0530, Samisa Abeysinghe wrote:
>> It looks to me that the amount of confusion and frustration demonstrated
>> in this thread is due to the mix of topics that we are discussing under
>> the single topic, namely TLP.
>>
>> Some of the matters are not really TLP related.
>>
>> On one hand, there is talk about dropping C out of the picture, while
>> making Axis2 a TLP. So natural tenancy from the C folks is a big NO.
>> So is that equivalent to saying, no we do not need a TLP? Not really.
>
> Yes as a contributor to Axis2/C project my main concern is also on
> dropping out Axis2/C out of the picture. If we separate out these two
> projects it may affect Axis2/C project, and I don't think Axis2 will
> benefited from that either.
>
>>
>> Then there are questions related to activeness. And I do agree that it
>> is a real problem, that needs to be solved. But IMHO I have doubts if a
>> TLP would solve it.
>>
>> We need a clear list of things that we might be doing, when we become a
>> TLP. And that list must obviously include the list of projects that will
>> go under that TLP etc.
>>
>> Then we also need a separate list, that outlines problems that we have
>> in the current setup. Including those that might be solved with TLP as
>> well as those that might not.
>>
>> And if we can agree on the above, then we have to identify a media to
>> collect those lists. A mailing list thread like this is distorting when
>> it comes to listing things IMHO, so we might need a Wiki that everyone
>> can edit.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Samisa...
>>
>>
>> Ajith Ranabahu wrote:
>> > missed general@
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > From: Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>
>> > Date: Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:04 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
>> > To: axis-dev@ws.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>> > I should kick myself for not reading Axis2 mail frequently. I just
>> > spent 20 minutes reading the complete thread and just throwing my 2
>> > cents.
>> >
>> > 1. I am +1 (not a vote, a token of agreement) on making Axis2 a TLP.
>> > I have supported the decision in the PMC and I am still in support for
>> > it. As Deepal says I don't understand why people are so much worried
>> > about making Axis2 a TLP. We have kept all the major components as
>> > subprojects so far and what difference would it make if we house them
>> > in a different place ?
>> >
>> > 2. I have to agree to Dims that we have not been active as usual.
>> > There are open Jira's and I haven't had time to fix the few things
>> > that are pending in my niche projects (XMLSchema and tcpmon) let alone
>> > in Axis2. However I personally feel that it would be easier to do a
>> > better job (better than being done right now) if the teams are small
>> > and focused rather than generic and all over the place. Again the
>> > volume and the size clearly warrants a break just for the ease of
>> > management. Mind you - it would not automatically fix the problem -
>> > the site would not get fixed by magic and the Jiras would not vanish.
>> > However it may make it easier to do so.
>> > For the sake of the argument if a disgruntled user goes on commenting
>> > about Axis2 he would be shooting at the ws pmc. But the WS pmc
>> > consists of many other innocent PMCers that have nothing to do with
>> > Axis2! if we have clear separation then the responsibilities are
>> > clear.
>> >
>> > 3. I've been told that (before my time in Apache) that it is
>> > discouraged to put projects in an umbrella of functionality, say like
>> > in ws* or xml*. Instead Apache has embraced the
>> > related-or-not-related-but-interesting type of project names with
>> > 'projects' and not umbrellas. Just to make it clear does the words
>> > jackrabbit, lucene, synapse, Mina or Lenya make any hint of what the
>> > project actually does ? So i don't see the point of keeping Axis2
>> > under the umbrella of ws* anymore. if the ws* argument to hold I would
>> > say all other Apache projects that provide the SOAP stack capability
>> > should come under ws* as well (such as CXF)
>> >
>> > 4. I don't suppose there is anyone with a secret (evil ;P) agenda of
>> > becoming the member of two PMC's supporting the split. But as I
>> > pointed out earlier ws has grown out of its bounds and its time we
>> > split things up for the sake of managing the complexity. Who we put as
>> > the chair is a different question and hopefully would be selected the
>> > democratic way (or by just looking at the mail count :D)
>> >
>> > For my final conclusion I am in support of this proposal.
>> >
>> > Ajith
>> >
>> > On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Though given Paul's and other people's response.
>> >>>
>> >> Dims, my response was a light-hearted comment on the situation, and
>> >> made no reference to whether or not Axis2 should be a TLP. I'm sorry
>> >> if you took it in a way it wasn't meant to be taken, but I certainly
>> >> wasn't making any comment against the proposal. I am in favour of
>> >> making Axis2 a TLP, and I'm surprised if anything I have said led you
>> >> or anyone else to think otherwise.
>> >>
>> >> Paul
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Paul Fremantle
>> >> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
>> >> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
>> >> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>> >>
>> >> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
>> >> paul@wso2.com
>> >>
>> >> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ajith Ranabahu
>> >
>> > Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
>> > creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
>> > too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
http://blog.ruchith.org
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Re: Fwd: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
>
> Yes as a contributor to Axis2/C project my main concern is also on
> dropping out Axis2/C out of the picture. If we separate out these two
> projects it may affect Axis2/C project, and I don't think Axis2 will
> benefited from that either.
>
>
Well , I never told that we should drop Axis2/C , what I mean by Axis2
is both C and Java.
Deepal
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Re: Fwd: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
>
> Yes as a contributor to Axis2/C project my main concern is also on
> dropping out Axis2/C out of the picture. If we separate out these two
> projects it may affect Axis2/C project, and I don't think Axis2 will
> benefited from that either.
>
>
Well , I never told that we should drop Axis2/C , what I mean by Axis2
is both C and Java.
Deepal
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Re: Fwd: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjaya Karunasena <sa...@yahoo.com>.
There are products out there which has different implementation based on the programming environment. For example, CruiseControl (http://cruisecontrol.sourceforge.net/) is for Java, then there is CruiseControl.NET and CruiseControl.rb. I think a similar approach can be taken for C without loosing its identity.
/Sanjaya
________________________________
From: Manjula Peiris <ma...@wso2.com>
To: general@ws.apache.org
Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2008 10:44:26 AM
Subject: Re: Fwd: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
On Sat, 2008-11-01 at 09:23 +0530, Samisa Abeysinghe wrote:
> It looks to me that the amount of confusion and frustration demonstrated
> in this thread is due to the mix of topics that we are discussing under
> the single topic, namely TLP.
>
> Some of the matters are not really TLP related.
>
> On one hand, there is talk about dropping C out of the picture, while
> making Axis2 a TLP. So natural tenancy from the C folks is a big NO.
> So is that equivalent to saying, no we do not need a TLP? Not really.
Yes as a contributor to Axis2/C project my main concern is also on
dropping out Axis2/C out of the picture. If we separate out these two
projects it may affect Axis2/C project, and I don't think Axis2 will
benefited from that either.
>
> Then there are questions related to activeness. And I do agree that it
> is a real problem, that needs to be solved. But IMHO I have doubts if a
> TLP would solve it.
>
> We need a clear list of things that we might be doing, when we become a
> TLP. And that list must obviously include the list of projects that will
> go under that TLP etc.
>
> Then we also need a separate list, that outlines problems that we have
> in the current setup. Including those that might be solved with TLP as
> well as those that might not.
>
> And if we can agree on the above, then we have to identify a media to
> collect those lists. A mailing list thread like this is distorting when
> it comes to listing things IMHO, so we might need a Wiki that everyone
> can edit.
>
> Thanks,
> Samisa...
>
>
> Ajith Ranabahu wrote:
> > missed general@
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>
> > Date: Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
> > To: axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> >
> >
> > I should kick myself for not reading Axis2 mail frequently. I just
> > spent 20 minutes reading the complete thread and just throwing my 2
> > cents.
> >
> > 1. I am +1 (not a vote, a token of agreement) on making Axis2 a TLP.
> > I have supported the decision in the PMC and I am still in support for
> > it. As Deepal says I don't understand why people are so much worried
> > about making Axis2 a TLP. We have kept all the major components as
> > subprojects so far and what difference would it make if we house them
> > in a different place ?
> >
> > 2. I have to agree to Dims that we have not been active as usual.
> > There are open Jira's and I haven't had time to fix the few things
> > that are pending in my niche projects (XMLSchema and tcpmon) let alone
> > in Axis2. However I personally feel that it would be easier to do a
> > better job (better than being done right now) if the teams are small
> > and focused rather than generic and all over the place. Again the
> > volume and the size clearly warrants a break just for the ease of
> > management. Mind you - it would not automatically fix the problem -
> > the site would not get fixed by magic and the Jiras would not vanish.
> > However it may make it easier to do so.
> > For the sake of the argument if a disgruntled user goes on commenting
> > about Axis2 he would be shooting at the ws pmc. But the WS pmc
> > consists of many other innocent PMCers that have nothing to do with
> > Axis2! if we have clear separation then the responsibilities are
> > clear.
> >
> > 3. I've been told that (before my time in Apache) that it is
> > discouraged to put projects in an umbrella of functionality, say like
> > in ws* or xml*. Instead Apache has embraced the
> > related-or-not-related-but-interesting type of project names with
> > 'projects' and not umbrellas. Just to make it clear does the words
> > jackrabbit, lucene, synapse, Mina or Lenya make any hint of what the
> > project actually does ? So i don't see the point of keeping Axis2
> > under the umbrella of ws* anymore. if the ws* argument to hold I would
> > say all other Apache projects that provide the SOAP stack capability
> > should come under ws* as well (such as CXF)
> >
> > 4. I don't suppose there is anyone with a secret (evil ;P) agenda of
> > becoming the member of two PMC's supporting the split. But as I
> > pointed out earlier ws has grown out of its bounds and its time we
> > split things up for the sake of managing the complexity. Who we put as
> > the chair is a different question and hopefully would be selected the
> > democratic way (or by just looking at the mail count :D)
> >
> > For my final conclusion I am in support of this proposal.
> >
> > Ajith
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Though given Paul's and other people's response.
> >>>
> >> Dims, my response was a light-hearted comment on the situation, and
> >> made no reference to whether or not Axis2 should be a TLP. I'm sorry
> >> if you took it in a way it wasn't meant to be taken, but I certainly
> >> wasn't making any comment against the proposal. I am in favour of
> >> making Axis2 a TLP, and I'm surprised if anything I have said led you
> >> or anyone else to think otherwise.
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >> --
> >> Paul Fremantle
> >> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
> >> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
> >> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
> >>
> >> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> >> paul@wso2.com
> >>
> >> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ajith Ranabahu
> >
> > Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
> > creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
> > too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
Re: Fwd: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Manjula Peiris <ma...@wso2.com>.
On Sat, 2008-11-01 at 09:23 +0530, Samisa Abeysinghe wrote:
> It looks to me that the amount of confusion and frustration demonstrated
> in this thread is due to the mix of topics that we are discussing under
> the single topic, namely TLP.
>
> Some of the matters are not really TLP related.
>
> On one hand, there is talk about dropping C out of the picture, while
> making Axis2 a TLP. So natural tenancy from the C folks is a big NO.
> So is that equivalent to saying, no we do not need a TLP? Not really.
Yes as a contributor to Axis2/C project my main concern is also on
dropping out Axis2/C out of the picture. If we separate out these two
projects it may affect Axis2/C project, and I don't think Axis2 will
benefited from that either.
>
> Then there are questions related to activeness. And I do agree that it
> is a real problem, that needs to be solved. But IMHO I have doubts if a
> TLP would solve it.
>
> We need a clear list of things that we might be doing, when we become a
> TLP. And that list must obviously include the list of projects that will
> go under that TLP etc.
>
> Then we also need a separate list, that outlines problems that we have
> in the current setup. Including those that might be solved with TLP as
> well as those that might not.
>
> And if we can agree on the above, then we have to identify a media to
> collect those lists. A mailing list thread like this is distorting when
> it comes to listing things IMHO, so we might need a Wiki that everyone
> can edit.
>
> Thanks,
> Samisa...
>
>
> Ajith Ranabahu wrote:
> > missed general@
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>
> > Date: Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
> > To: axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> >
> >
> > I should kick myself for not reading Axis2 mail frequently. I just
> > spent 20 minutes reading the complete thread and just throwing my 2
> > cents.
> >
> > 1. I am +1 (not a vote, a token of agreement) on making Axis2 a TLP.
> > I have supported the decision in the PMC and I am still in support for
> > it. As Deepal says I don't understand why people are so much worried
> > about making Axis2 a TLP. We have kept all the major components as
> > subprojects so far and what difference would it make if we house them
> > in a different place ?
> >
> > 2. I have to agree to Dims that we have not been active as usual.
> > There are open Jira's and I haven't had time to fix the few things
> > that are pending in my niche projects (XMLSchema and tcpmon) let alone
> > in Axis2. However I personally feel that it would be easier to do a
> > better job (better than being done right now) if the teams are small
> > and focused rather than generic and all over the place. Again the
> > volume and the size clearly warrants a break just for the ease of
> > management. Mind you - it would not automatically fix the problem -
> > the site would not get fixed by magic and the Jiras would not vanish.
> > However it may make it easier to do so.
> > For the sake of the argument if a disgruntled user goes on commenting
> > about Axis2 he would be shooting at the ws pmc. But the WS pmc
> > consists of many other innocent PMCers that have nothing to do with
> > Axis2! if we have clear separation then the responsibilities are
> > clear.
> >
> > 3. I've been told that (before my time in Apache) that it is
> > discouraged to put projects in an umbrella of functionality, say like
> > in ws* or xml*. Instead Apache has embraced the
> > related-or-not-related-but-interesting type of project names with
> > 'projects' and not umbrellas. Just to make it clear does the words
> > jackrabbit, lucene, synapse, Mina or Lenya make any hint of what the
> > project actually does ? So i don't see the point of keeping Axis2
> > under the umbrella of ws* anymore. if the ws* argument to hold I would
> > say all other Apache projects that provide the SOAP stack capability
> > should come under ws* as well (such as CXF)
> >
> > 4. I don't suppose there is anyone with a secret (evil ;P) agenda of
> > becoming the member of two PMC's supporting the split. But as I
> > pointed out earlier ws has grown out of its bounds and its time we
> > split things up for the sake of managing the complexity. Who we put as
> > the chair is a different question and hopefully would be selected the
> > democratic way (or by just looking at the mail count :D)
> >
> > For my final conclusion I am in support of this proposal.
> >
> > Ajith
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Though given Paul's and other people's response.
> >>>
> >> Dims, my response was a light-hearted comment on the situation, and
> >> made no reference to whether or not Axis2 should be a TLP. I'm sorry
> >> if you took it in a way it wasn't meant to be taken, but I certainly
> >> wasn't making any comment against the proposal. I am in favour of
> >> making Axis2 a TLP, and I'm surprised if anything I have said led you
> >> or anyone else to think otherwise.
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >> --
> >> Paul Fremantle
> >> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
> >> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
> >> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
> >>
> >> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> >> paul@wso2.com
> >>
> >> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ajith Ranabahu
> >
> > Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
> > creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
> > too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
Re: Fwd: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Samisa Abeysinghe <sa...@gmail.com>.
It looks to me that the amount of confusion and frustration demonstrated
in this thread is due to the mix of topics that we are discussing under
the single topic, namely TLP.
Some of the matters are not really TLP related.
On one hand, there is talk about dropping C out of the picture, while
making Axis2 a TLP. So natural tenancy from the C folks is a big NO.
So is that equivalent to saying, no we do not need a TLP? Not really.
Then there are questions related to activeness. And I do agree that it
is a real problem, that needs to be solved. But IMHO I have doubts if a
TLP would solve it.
We need a clear list of things that we might be doing, when we become a
TLP. And that list must obviously include the list of projects that will
go under that TLP etc.
Then we also need a separate list, that outlines problems that we have
in the current setup. Including those that might be solved with TLP as
well as those that might not.
And if we can agree on the above, then we have to identify a media to
collect those lists. A mailing list thread like this is distorting when
it comes to listing things IMHO, so we might need a Wiki that everyone
can edit.
Thanks,
Samisa...
Ajith Ranabahu wrote:
> missed general@
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
> To: axis-dev@ws.apache.org
>
>
> I should kick myself for not reading Axis2 mail frequently. I just
> spent 20 minutes reading the complete thread and just throwing my 2
> cents.
>
> 1. I am +1 (not a vote, a token of agreement) on making Axis2 a TLP.
> I have supported the decision in the PMC and I am still in support for
> it. As Deepal says I don't understand why people are so much worried
> about making Axis2 a TLP. We have kept all the major components as
> subprojects so far and what difference would it make if we house them
> in a different place ?
>
> 2. I have to agree to Dims that we have not been active as usual.
> There are open Jira's and I haven't had time to fix the few things
> that are pending in my niche projects (XMLSchema and tcpmon) let alone
> in Axis2. However I personally feel that it would be easier to do a
> better job (better than being done right now) if the teams are small
> and focused rather than generic and all over the place. Again the
> volume and the size clearly warrants a break just for the ease of
> management. Mind you - it would not automatically fix the problem -
> the site would not get fixed by magic and the Jiras would not vanish.
> However it may make it easier to do so.
> For the sake of the argument if a disgruntled user goes on commenting
> about Axis2 he would be shooting at the ws pmc. But the WS pmc
> consists of many other innocent PMCers that have nothing to do with
> Axis2! if we have clear separation then the responsibilities are
> clear.
>
> 3. I've been told that (before my time in Apache) that it is
> discouraged to put projects in an umbrella of functionality, say like
> in ws* or xml*. Instead Apache has embraced the
> related-or-not-related-but-interesting type of project names with
> 'projects' and not umbrellas. Just to make it clear does the words
> jackrabbit, lucene, synapse, Mina or Lenya make any hint of what the
> project actually does ? So i don't see the point of keeping Axis2
> under the umbrella of ws* anymore. if the ws* argument to hold I would
> say all other Apache projects that provide the SOAP stack capability
> should come under ws* as well (such as CXF)
>
> 4. I don't suppose there is anyone with a secret (evil ;P) agenda of
> becoming the member of two PMC's supporting the split. But as I
> pointed out earlier ws has grown out of its bounds and its time we
> split things up for the sake of managing the complexity. Who we put as
> the chair is a different question and hopefully would be selected the
> democratic way (or by just looking at the mail count :D)
>
> For my final conclusion I am in support of this proposal.
>
> Ajith
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Though given Paul's and other people's response.
>>>
>> Dims, my response was a light-hearted comment on the situation, and
>> made no reference to whether or not Axis2 should be a TLP. I'm sorry
>> if you took it in a way it wasn't meant to be taken, but I certainly
>> wasn't making any comment against the proposal. I am in favour of
>> making Axis2 a TLP, and I'm surprised if anything I have said led you
>> or anyone else to think otherwise.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> --
>> Paul Fremantle
>> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
>> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
>> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>>
>> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
>> paul@wso2.com
>>
>> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ajith Ranabahu
>
> Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
> creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
> too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
>
>
>
>
--
Samisa Abeysinghe
http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
Fwd: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>.
missed general@
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
To: axis-dev@ws.apache.org
I should kick myself for not reading Axis2 mail frequently. I just
spent 20 minutes reading the complete thread and just throwing my 2
cents.
1. I am +1 (not a vote, a token of agreement) on making Axis2 a TLP.
I have supported the decision in the PMC and I am still in support for
it. As Deepal says I don't understand why people are so much worried
about making Axis2 a TLP. We have kept all the major components as
subprojects so far and what difference would it make if we house them
in a different place ?
2. I have to agree to Dims that we have not been active as usual.
There are open Jira's and I haven't had time to fix the few things
that are pending in my niche projects (XMLSchema and tcpmon) let alone
in Axis2. However I personally feel that it would be easier to do a
better job (better than being done right now) if the teams are small
and focused rather than generic and all over the place. Again the
volume and the size clearly warrants a break just for the ease of
management. Mind you - it would not automatically fix the problem -
the site would not get fixed by magic and the Jiras would not vanish.
However it may make it easier to do so.
For the sake of the argument if a disgruntled user goes on commenting
about Axis2 he would be shooting at the ws pmc. But the WS pmc
consists of many other innocent PMCers that have nothing to do with
Axis2! if we have clear separation then the responsibilities are
clear.
3. I've been told that (before my time in Apache) that it is
discouraged to put projects in an umbrella of functionality, say like
in ws* or xml*. Instead Apache has embraced the
related-or-not-related-but-interesting type of project names with
'projects' and not umbrellas. Just to make it clear does the words
jackrabbit, lucene, synapse, Mina or Lenya make any hint of what the
project actually does ? So i don't see the point of keeping Axis2
under the umbrella of ws* anymore. if the ws* argument to hold I would
say all other Apache projects that provide the SOAP stack capability
should come under ws* as well (such as CXF)
4. I don't suppose there is anyone with a secret (evil ;P) agenda of
becoming the member of two PMC's supporting the split. But as I
pointed out earlier ws has grown out of its bounds and its time we
split things up for the sake of managing the complexity. Who we put as
the chair is a different question and hopefully would be selected the
democratic way (or by just looking at the mail count :D)
For my final conclusion I am in support of this proposal.
Ajith
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Though given Paul's and other people's response.
>
> Dims, my response was a light-hearted comment on the situation, and
> made no reference to whether or not Axis2 should be a TLP. I'm sorry
> if you took it in a way it wasn't meant to be taken, but I certainly
> wasn't making any comment against the proposal. I am in favour of
> making Axis2 a TLP, and I'm surprised if anything I have said led you
> or anyone else to think otherwise.
>
> Paul
>
> --
> Paul Fremantle
> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>
> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> paul@wso2.com
>
> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Ajith Ranabahu
Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
--
Ajith Ranabahu
Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>.
I should kick myself for not reading Axis2 mail frequently. I just
spent 20 minutes reading the complete thread and just throwing my 2
cents.
1. I am +1 (not a vote, a token of agreement) on making Axis2 a TLP.
I have supported the decision in the PMC and I am still in support for
it. As Deepal says I don't understand why people are so much worried
about making Axis2 a TLP. We have kept all the major components as
subprojects so far and what difference would it make if we house them
in a different place ?
2. I have to agree to Dims that we have not been active as usual.
There are open Jira's and I haven't had time to fix the few things
that are pending in my niche projects (XMLSchema and tcpmon) let alone
in Axis2. However I personally feel that it would be easier to do a
better job (better than being done right now) if the teams are small
and focused rather than generic and all over the place. Again the
volume and the size clearly warrants a break just for the ease of
management. Mind you - it would not automatically fix the problem -
the site would not get fixed by magic and the Jiras would not vanish.
However it may make it easier to do so.
For the sake of the argument if a disgruntled user goes on commenting
about Axis2 he would be shooting at the ws pmc. But the WS pmc
consists of many other innocent PMCers that have nothing to do with
Axis2! if we have clear separation then the responsibilities are
clear.
3. I've been told that (before my time in Apache) that it is
discouraged to put projects in an umbrella of functionality, say like
in ws* or xml*. Instead Apache has embraced the
related-or-not-related-but-interesting type of project names with
'projects' and not umbrellas. Just to make it clear does the words
jackrabbit, lucene, synapse, Mina or Lenya make any hint of what the
project actually does ? So i don't see the point of keeping Axis2
under the umbrella of ws* anymore. if the ws* argument to hold I would
say all other Apache projects that provide the SOAP stack capability
should come under ws* as well (such as CXF)
4. I don't suppose there is anyone with a secret (evil ;P) agenda of
becoming the member of two PMC's supporting the split. But as I
pointed out earlier ws has grown out of its bounds and its time we
split things up for the sake of managing the complexity. Who we put as
the chair is a different question and hopefully would be selected the
democratic way (or by just looking at the mail count :D)
For my final conclusion I am in support of this proposal.
Ajith
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Though given Paul's and other people's response.
>
> Dims, my response was a light-hearted comment on the situation, and
> made no reference to whether or not Axis2 should be a TLP. I'm sorry
> if you took it in a way it wasn't meant to be taken, but I certainly
> wasn't making any comment against the proposal. I am in favour of
> making Axis2 a TLP, and I'm surprised if anything I have said led you
> or anyone else to think otherwise.
>
> Paul
>
> --
> Paul Fremantle
> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>
> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> paul@wso2.com
>
> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Ajith Ranabahu
Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
too little falls into lazy habits of thinking - Albert Einstein
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Though given Paul's and other people's response.
Dims, my response was a light-hearted comment on the situation, and
made no reference to whether or not Axis2 should be a TLP. I'm sorry
if you took it in a way it wasn't meant to be taken, but I certainly
wasn't making any comment against the proposal. I am in favour of
making Axis2 a TLP, and I'm surprised if anything I have said led you
or anyone else to think otherwise.
Paul
--
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
Apache Synapse PMC Chair
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for the deep insight and pointing out my double standards.
-- dims
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch??
>
> I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis you're
> claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be".
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>
>> -- dims
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Samisa,
>>>
>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>> board and to our end users.
>>>
>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>
>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even
>>>> after
>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>> projects,
>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a
>>>> useless
>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects
>>>> it
>>>> has.
>>>>
>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
>>>> I
>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>
>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>
>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>
>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>> saying.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> dims
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them.
>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related
>>>>>> projects
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> go
>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again.
>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch??
I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis you're
claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be".
Sanjiva.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>
> -- dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Samisa,
>>
>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>> board and to our end users.
>>
>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>> a TLP like focus.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>> Eran,
>>>>
>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>
>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>
>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>
>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
>>> has.
>>>
>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>
>>> Samisa...
>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>> experiences.
>>>>
>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>
>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>> saying.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>> like
>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>
>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>
>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to
>>>>> go
>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>
>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch??
I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis you're
claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be".
Sanjiva.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>
> -- dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Samisa,
>>
>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>> board and to our end users.
>>
>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>> a TLP like focus.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>> Eran,
>>>>
>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>
>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>
>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>
>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
>>> has.
>>>
>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>
>>> Samisa...
>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>> experiences.
>>>>
>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>
>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>> saying.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>> like
>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>
>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>
>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to
>>>>> go
>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>
>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Serves me right to open my mouth. Sorry won't happen again.
-- dims
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ah the glory days when you were Veep!
>
> Paul
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>
>> -- dims
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Samisa,
>>>
>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>> board and to our end users.
>>>
>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
>>>> has.
>>>>
>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>
>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>
>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>
>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>> saying.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> dims
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to
>>>>>> go
>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Paul Fremantle
> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>
> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> paul@wso2.com
>
> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Serves me right to open my mouth. Sorry won't happen again.
-- dims
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ah the glory days when you were Veep!
>
> Paul
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>
>> -- dims
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Samisa,
>>>
>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>> board and to our end users.
>>>
>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
>>>> has.
>>>>
>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>
>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>
>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>
>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>> saying.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> dims
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to
>>>>>> go
>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Paul Fremantle
> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>
> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> paul@wso2.com
>
> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
Ah the glory days when you were Veep!
Paul
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>
> -- dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Samisa,
>>
>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>> board and to our end users.
>>
>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>> a TLP like focus.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Eran,
>>>>
>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>
>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>
>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
>>> has.
>>>
>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>
>>> Samisa...
>>>>
>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>> experiences.
>>>>
>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>
>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>> saying.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>> like
>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>
>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to
>>>>> go
>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
Apache Synapse PMC Chair
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
Ah the glory days when you were Veep!
Paul
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>
> -- dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Samisa,
>>
>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>> board and to our end users.
>>
>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>> a TLP like focus.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Eran,
>>>>
>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>
>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>
>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
>>> has.
>>>
>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>
>>> Samisa...
>>>>
>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>> experiences.
>>>>
>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>
>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>> saying.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>> like
>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>
>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to
>>>>> go
>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
Apache Synapse PMC Chair
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
-- dims
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Samisa,
>
> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
> board and to our end users.
>
> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
> a TLP like focus.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>
>>> Eran,
>>>
>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>> then we can continue.
>>>
>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>
>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>> - Really bad web sites
>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>
>>
>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
>> has.
>>
>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>
>> Samisa...
>>>
>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>> experiences.
>>>
>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>
>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>> saying.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Problems :
>>>>
>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>> like
>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>
>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to
>>>> go
>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Though given Paul's and other people's response.
Dims, my response was a light-hearted comment on the situation, and
made no reference to whether or not Axis2 should be a TLP. I'm sorry
if you took it in a way it wasn't meant to be taken, but I certainly
wasn't making any comment against the proposal. I am in favour of
making Axis2 a TLP, and I'm surprised if anything I have said led you
or anyone else to think otherwise.
Paul
--
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Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
Apache Synapse PMC Chair
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Deepal, what does s/ws/axis2/g achieve?
Sanjiva.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I am trying to be a bit more optimistic that shaking things up may
>> help generate enthusiasm. Though given Paul's and other people's
>> response. I may be doing more harm than good. If these projects are
>> beyond salvage. So be it then. Question is should we even bother to
>> ask everyone with a VOTE or just give up right now...
>>
> VOTE is the final thing , and I still can not understand why most the
> people do not want to make Axis2 TLP. In other projects they try a lot
> to make a their project into TLP , here it is totally different. If no
> one agree to make Axis2 TLP , I would suggest RENAME WS into Axis2. Just
> having one Web service project inside Apache WS is not fair , I think
> right approached would be for the people against making Axis2 a TLP
> fight to get other Apache Web services project into Apache WS.
>
> Deepal
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>
>>>> Samisa,
>>>>
>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>
>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> IMHO, sometimes, even getting an Axis2 release out of the door becomes a
>>> rolling stone, and takes so much time. I am not really sure how it would be
>>> to combine all those efforts together.
>>>
>>> Some of the long running and trivial issues like the crappy web site can be
>>> easily solved, give some cycles. Even I can volunteer to do that. However,
>>> you have to consider the long tail, if at all a TLP is to be taken up. Even
>>> it might be a good idea to make Axis3 yes 3 a TLP, but not Axis2. Becase
>>> Axis2 as a TLP would not be the same as the Axis2 as it used to be, both in
>>> technical fronts as well as in non-technical fronts.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Samisa...
>>>
>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>>> projects,
>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects
>>>>> it
>>>>> has.
>>>>>
>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
>>>>> I
>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>
>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Deepal, what does s/ws/axis2/g achieve?
Sanjiva.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I am trying to be a bit more optimistic that shaking things up may
>> help generate enthusiasm. Though given Paul's and other people's
>> response. I may be doing more harm than good. If these projects are
>> beyond salvage. So be it then. Question is should we even bother to
>> ask everyone with a VOTE or just give up right now...
>>
> VOTE is the final thing , and I still can not understand why most the
> people do not want to make Axis2 TLP. In other projects they try a lot
> to make a their project into TLP , here it is totally different. If no
> one agree to make Axis2 TLP , I would suggest RENAME WS into Axis2. Just
> having one Web service project inside Apache WS is not fair , I think
> right approached would be for the people against making Axis2 a TLP
> fight to get other Apache Web services project into Apache WS.
>
> Deepal
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>
>>>> Samisa,
>>>>
>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>
>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> IMHO, sometimes, even getting an Axis2 release out of the door becomes a
>>> rolling stone, and takes so much time. I am not really sure how it would be
>>> to combine all those efforts together.
>>>
>>> Some of the long running and trivial issues like the crappy web site can be
>>> easily solved, give some cycles. Even I can volunteer to do that. However,
>>> you have to consider the long tail, if at all a TLP is to be taken up. Even
>>> it might be a good idea to make Axis3 yes 3 a TLP, but not Axis2. Becase
>>> Axis2 as a TLP would not be the same as the Axis2 as it used to be, both in
>>> technical fronts as well as in non-technical fronts.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Samisa...
>>>
>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>>> projects,
>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects
>>>>> it
>>>>> has.
>>>>>
>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
>>>>> I
>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>
>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
> I am trying to be a bit more optimistic that shaking things up may
> help generate enthusiasm. Though given Paul's and other people's
> response. I may be doing more harm than good. If these projects are
> beyond salvage. So be it then. Question is should we even bother to
> ask everyone with a VOTE or just give up right now...
>
VOTE is the final thing , and I still can not understand why most the
people do not want to make Axis2 TLP. In other projects they try a lot
to make a their project into TLP , here it is totally different. If no
one agree to make Axis2 TLP , I would suggest RENAME WS into Axis2. Just
having one Web service project inside Apache WS is not fair , I think
right approached would be for the people against making Axis2 a TLP
fight to get other Apache Web services project into Apache WS.
Deepal
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>>> Samisa,
>>>
>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>> board and to our end users.
>>>
>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>
>>>
>> IMHO, sometimes, even getting an Axis2 release out of the door becomes a
>> rolling stone, and takes so much time. I am not really sure how it would be
>> to combine all those efforts together.
>>
>> Some of the long running and trivial issues like the crappy web site can be
>> easily solved, give some cycles. Even I can volunteer to do that. However,
>> you have to consider the long tail, if at all a TLP is to be taken up. Even
>> it might be a good idea to make Axis3 yes 3 a TLP, but not Axis2. Becase
>> Axis2 as a TLP would not be the same as the Axis2 as it used to be, both in
>> technical fronts as well as in non-technical fronts.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Samisa...
>>
>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>> projects,
>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects
>>>> it
>>>> has.
>>>>
>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
>>>> I
>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>
>>>> Samisa...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>
>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>> saying.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> dims
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> go
>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
> I am trying to be a bit more optimistic that shaking things up may
> help generate enthusiasm. Though given Paul's and other people's
> response. I may be doing more harm than good. If these projects are
> beyond salvage. So be it then. Question is should we even bother to
> ask everyone with a VOTE or just give up right now...
>
VOTE is the final thing , and I still can not understand why most the
people do not want to make Axis2 TLP. In other projects they try a lot
to make a their project into TLP , here it is totally different. If no
one agree to make Axis2 TLP , I would suggest RENAME WS into Axis2. Just
having one Web service project inside Apache WS is not fair , I think
right approached would be for the people against making Axis2 a TLP
fight to get other Apache Web services project into Apache WS.
Deepal
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>>> Samisa,
>>>
>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>> board and to our end users.
>>>
>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>
>>>
>> IMHO, sometimes, even getting an Axis2 release out of the door becomes a
>> rolling stone, and takes so much time. I am not really sure how it would be
>> to combine all those efforts together.
>>
>> Some of the long running and trivial issues like the crappy web site can be
>> easily solved, give some cycles. Even I can volunteer to do that. However,
>> you have to consider the long tail, if at all a TLP is to be taken up. Even
>> it might be a good idea to make Axis3 yes 3 a TLP, but not Axis2. Becase
>> Axis2 as a TLP would not be the same as the Axis2 as it used to be, both in
>> technical fronts as well as in non-technical fronts.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Samisa...
>>
>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>> projects,
>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects
>>>> it
>>>> has.
>>>>
>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
>>>> I
>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>
>>>> Samisa...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>
>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>> saying.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> dims
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> go
>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Thank you!
http://blogs.deepal.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
I am trying to be a bit more optimistic that shaking things up may
help generate enthusiasm. Though given Paul's and other people's
response. I may be doing more harm than good. If these projects are
beyond salvage. So be it then. Question is should we even bother to
ask everyone with a VOTE or just give up right now...
thanks,
dims
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
<sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> Samisa,
>>
>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>> board and to our end users.
>>
>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>> a TLP like focus.
>>
>
> IMHO, sometimes, even getting an Axis2 release out of the door becomes a
> rolling stone, and takes so much time. I am not really sure how it would be
> to combine all those efforts together.
>
> Some of the long running and trivial issues like the crappy web site can be
> easily solved, give some cycles. Even I can volunteer to do that. However,
> you have to consider the long tail, if at all a TLP is to be taken up. Even
> it might be a good idea to make Axis3 yes 3 a TLP, but not Axis2. Becase
> Axis2 as a TLP would not be the same as the Axis2 as it used to be, both in
> technical fronts as well as in non-technical fronts.
>
> Thanks,
> Samisa...
>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Eran,
>>>>
>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>
>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>
>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>> projects,
>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects
>>> it
>>> has.
>>>
>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
>>> I
>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>
>>> Samisa...
>>>
>>>>
>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>> experiences.
>>>>
>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>
>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>> saying.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>> like
>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>
>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us
>>>>> to
>>>>> go
>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>> something
>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Samisa Abeysinghe
>
> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Lahiru Sandakith Gallege <sa...@gmail.com>.
TLP is Top Level Project as in
http://www.apache.org/dev/project-creation.html
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 3:08 PM, emiddio-verizon <em...@verizon.net>wrote:
> pleaes --
>
> someone say what "TLP" stands for - what is the acronym?
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Thanks
Lahiru Sandakith Gallege
http://sandakith.wordpress.com/
http://www.cs.iupui.edu/~lspileth/
GPG Key Fingerprint : 8CD8 68E0 4CBC 75CB 25BC 1AB1 FE5E 7464 1F01 9A0F
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
-- dims
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Samisa,
>
> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
> board and to our end users.
>
> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
> a TLP like focus.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>
>>> Eran,
>>>
>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>> then we can continue.
>>>
>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>
>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>> - Really bad web sites
>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>
>>
>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
>> has.
>>
>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>
>> Samisa...
>>>
>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>> experiences.
>>>
>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>
>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>> saying.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Problems :
>>>>
>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>> like
>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>
>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to
>>>> go
>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
I am trying to be a bit more optimistic that shaking things up may
help generate enthusiasm. Though given Paul's and other people's
response. I may be doing more harm than good. If these projects are
beyond salvage. So be it then. Question is should we even bother to
ask everyone with a VOTE or just give up right now...
thanks,
dims
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
<sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> Samisa,
>>
>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>> board and to our end users.
>>
>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>> a TLP like focus.
>>
>
> IMHO, sometimes, even getting an Axis2 release out of the door becomes a
> rolling stone, and takes so much time. I am not really sure how it would be
> to combine all those efforts together.
>
> Some of the long running and trivial issues like the crappy web site can be
> easily solved, give some cycles. Even I can volunteer to do that. However,
> you have to consider the long tail, if at all a TLP is to be taken up. Even
> it might be a good idea to make Axis3 yes 3 a TLP, but not Axis2. Becase
> Axis2 as a TLP would not be the same as the Axis2 as it used to be, both in
> technical fronts as well as in non-technical fronts.
>
> Thanks,
> Samisa...
>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Eran,
>>>>
>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>
>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>
>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>> projects,
>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects
>>> it
>>> has.
>>>
>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
>>> I
>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>
>>> Samisa...
>>>
>>>>
>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>> experiences.
>>>>
>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>
>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>> saying.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>> like
>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>
>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us
>>>>> to
>>>>> go
>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>> something
>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Samisa Abeysinghe
>
> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Samisa Abeysinghe <sa...@gmail.com>.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Samisa,
>
> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
> board and to our end users.
>
> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
> a TLP like focus.
>
IMHO, sometimes, even getting an Axis2 release out of the door becomes a
rolling stone, and takes so much time. I am not really sure how it would
be to combine all those efforts together.
Some of the long running and trivial issues like the crappy web site can
be easily solved, give some cycles. Even I can volunteer to do that.
However, you have to consider the long tail, if at all a TLP is to be
taken up. Even it might be a good idea to make Axis3 yes 3 a TLP, but
not Axis2. Becase Axis2 as a TLP would not be the same as the Axis2 as
it used to be, both in technical fronts as well as in non-technical fronts.
Thanks,
Samisa...
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>>> Eran,
>>>
>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>> then we can continue.
>>>
>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>
>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>> - Really bad web sites
>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>
>>>
>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
>> has.
>>
>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>
>> Samisa...
>>
>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>> experiences.
>>>
>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>
>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>> saying.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Problems :
>>>>
>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>> like
>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>
>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to
>>>> go
>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Samisa Abeysinghe
http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Samisa Abeysinghe <sa...@gmail.com>.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Samisa,
>
> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
> board and to our end users.
>
> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
> a TLP like focus.
>
IMHO, sometimes, even getting an Axis2 release out of the door becomes a
rolling stone, and takes so much time. I am not really sure how it would
be to combine all those efforts together.
Some of the long running and trivial issues like the crappy web site can
be easily solved, give some cycles. Even I can volunteer to do that.
However, you have to consider the long tail, if at all a TLP is to be
taken up. Even it might be a good idea to make Axis3 yes 3 a TLP, but
not Axis2. Becase Axis2 as a TLP would not be the same as the Axis2 as
it used to be, both in technical fronts as well as in non-technical fronts.
Thanks,
Samisa...
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>>> Eran,
>>>
>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>> then we can continue.
>>>
>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>
>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>> - Really bad web sites
>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>
>>>
>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
>> has.
>>
>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>
>> Samisa...
>>
>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>> experiences.
>>>
>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>
>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>> saying.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Problems :
>>>>
>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>> like
>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>
>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to
>>>> go
>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Samisa Abeysinghe
http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by emiddio-verizon <em...@verizon.net>.
pleaes --
someone say what "TLP" stands for - what is the acronym?
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Samisa,
You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
board and to our end users.
There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
a TLP like focus.
thanks,
dims
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
<sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> Eran,
>>
>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>> then we can continue.
>>
>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>
>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>> - Really bad web sites
>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>> - There are many disjoint islands
>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>> projects in WS PMC.
>>
>
> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
> has.
>
> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>
> Samisa...
>>
>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>> experiences.
>>
>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>
>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>> saying.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>
>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Problems :
>>>
>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>> like
>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>
>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to
>>> go
>>> for different TLPs?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>
>>>
>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Samisa Abeysinghe
>
> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Samisa,
You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
board and to our end users.
There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
a TLP like focus.
thanks,
dims
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
<sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> Eran,
>>
>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>> then we can continue.
>>
>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>
>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>> - Really bad web sites
>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>> - There are many disjoint islands
>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>> projects in WS PMC.
>>
>
> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
> has.
>
> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>
> Samisa...
>>
>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>> experiences.
>>
>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>
>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>> saying.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>
>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Problems :
>>>
>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>> like
>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>
>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to
>>> go
>>> for different TLPs?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>
>>>
>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Samisa Abeysinghe
>
> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Samisa Abeysinghe <sa...@gmail.com>.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Eran,
>
> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
> then we can continue.
>
> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>
> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
> sucks. What we have is not working.
> - Really bad web sites
> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
> - There are many disjoint islands
> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
> projects in WS PMC.
>
How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even
after making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will
remain.
On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
projects, then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to
be a useless project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of
sub projects it has.
So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
I doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
Samisa...
> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
> experiences.
>
> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
> think and we'll take a vote.
>
> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
> saying.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Chinthaka,
>>>
>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>
>> Problems :
>>
>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects like
>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>
>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>
>>
>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>> committers can have access).
>>>
>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to go
>> for different TLPs?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>
>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Samisa Abeysinghe
http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Samisa Abeysinghe <sa...@gmail.com>.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Eran,
>
> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
> then we can continue.
>
> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>
> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
> sucks. What we have is not working.
> - Really bad web sites
> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
> - There are many disjoint islands
> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
> projects in WS PMC.
>
How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even
after making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will
remain.
On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
projects, then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to
be a useless project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of
sub projects it has.
So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
I doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
Samisa...
> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
> experiences.
>
> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
> think and we'll take a vote.
>
> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
> saying.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
> <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Chinthaka,
>>>
>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>
>> Problems :
>>
>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects like
>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>
>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>
>>
>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>> committers can have access).
>>>
>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to go
>> for different TLPs?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>
>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Samisa Abeysinghe
http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Eran,
Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
then we can continue.
For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
sucks. What we have is not working.
- Really bad web sites
- Really bad status of JIRA issues
- Really bad track record of making releases periodically
- There are many disjoint islands
- The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
projects in WS PMC.
What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
experiences.
*IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
think and we'll take a vote.
Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
over and over again without even reading what the other person is
saying.
thanks,
dims
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
<er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Chinthaka,
>>
>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>
> Problems :
>
> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects like
> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>
> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>
>>
>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>> committers can have access).
>
> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to go
> for different TLPs?
>
>
>>
>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>> something new to see if it will work.
>
> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Eran,
Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
then we can continue.
For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
sucks. What we have is not working.
- Really bad web sites
- Really bad status of JIRA issues
- Really bad track record of making releases periodically
- There are many disjoint islands
- The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
projects in WS PMC.
What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
experiences.
*IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
think and we'll take a vote.
Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
over and over again without even reading what the other person is
saying.
thanks,
dims
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
<er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Chinthaka,
>>
>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>
> Problems :
>
> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects like
> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>
> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>
>>
>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>> committers can have access).
>
> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to go
> for different TLPs?
>
>
>>
>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>> something new to see if it will work.
>
> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Eran Chinthaka <er...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chinthaka,
>
> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
Problems :
1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects like
Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>
>
> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
> committers can have access).
Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to go
for different TLPs?
>
>
> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
> something new to see if it will work.
>
My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Chinthaka,
What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
committers can have access).
Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
something new to see if it will work.
thanks,
dims
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Eran Chinthaka
<er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Eran Chinthaka wrote:
>> > I hope I'm still not late to comment on this.
>> >
>> > I'm also with Sanjiva on this issue. Axis2 is just not Axis2 project
>> > alone. Axiom and others are integral parts of it. Couple of
>> > challenges/questions from me.
>> >
>> > 1. Let's take the Glen's proposal on two projects and list down the
>> > developers in each project.
>> Hehe , then what Apache should do is remove all the TLPs and their PMC's
>> and list down developers in different projects :)
>
> I think you didn't get what I meant here. According to Glen's suggestion,
> Axiom and Axis2 will be on two different projects. What is the meaning of
> that if its the same people in both the groups.
>
> Also one more concern. I think Axis2/Java is more connected to Axiom than
> Axis2/C. So keeping Axis2/C and Axis2/Java in one project and leaving out
> Axiom makes no sense to me.
>
> Removing all the TLPs in Apache is not by any means analogous to that.
>
>
>>
>> The one idea of TLP is to build small communities and improve them ,
>> then automatically Apache as a whole will be improved.
>
> Nice quote Deepal. You have already started to become a philosopher ;)
>
>>
>> > So is it worth doing this? I'm extremely sorry if I'm missing
>> > something, but still I can not see a compelling argument to move on to
>> > a new TLP.
>> As I can see you looking at the problem in differently ,
>>
>> its not about
>> who is going to be the PMC chair , or whether we are going to become a
>> PMC in some other list. Its about get more visibility to the projects
>> and enhance the project.
>
> Wow, what sort of *more* visibility you will get by doing this? Can you
> please elaborate a bit? Will we see thousands of more Axis2 downloads after
> this? Or will see developers competing to send patches to Axis2 and Axiom?
>
> I personally think creating separate TLPs will create more problems and
> unnecessary separation within the community.
>
> Thanks,
> Chinthaka
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Chinthaka,
What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
committers can have access).
Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
something new to see if it will work.
thanks,
dims
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Eran Chinthaka
<er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Eran Chinthaka wrote:
>> > I hope I'm still not late to comment on this.
>> >
>> > I'm also with Sanjiva on this issue. Axis2 is just not Axis2 project
>> > alone. Axiom and others are integral parts of it. Couple of
>> > challenges/questions from me.
>> >
>> > 1. Let's take the Glen's proposal on two projects and list down the
>> > developers in each project.
>> Hehe , then what Apache should do is remove all the TLPs and their PMC's
>> and list down developers in different projects :)
>
> I think you didn't get what I meant here. According to Glen's suggestion,
> Axiom and Axis2 will be on two different projects. What is the meaning of
> that if its the same people in both the groups.
>
> Also one more concern. I think Axis2/Java is more connected to Axiom than
> Axis2/C. So keeping Axis2/C and Axis2/Java in one project and leaving out
> Axiom makes no sense to me.
>
> Removing all the TLPs in Apache is not by any means analogous to that.
>
>
>>
>> The one idea of TLP is to build small communities and improve them ,
>> then automatically Apache as a whole will be improved.
>
> Nice quote Deepal. You have already started to become a philosopher ;)
>
>>
>> > So is it worth doing this? I'm extremely sorry if I'm missing
>> > something, but still I can not see a compelling argument to move on to
>> > a new TLP.
>> As I can see you looking at the problem in differently ,
>>
>> its not about
>> who is going to be the PMC chair , or whether we are going to become a
>> PMC in some other list. Its about get more visibility to the projects
>> and enhance the project.
>
> Wow, what sort of *more* visibility you will get by doing this? Can you
> please elaborate a bit? Will we see thousands of more Axis2 downloads after
> this? Or will see developers competing to send patches to Axis2 and Axiom?
>
> I personally think creating separate TLPs will create more problems and
> unnecessary separation within the community.
>
> Thanks,
> Chinthaka
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Eran Chinthaka <er...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Eran Chinthaka wrote:
> > I hope I'm still not late to comment on this.
> >
> > I'm also with Sanjiva on this issue. Axis2 is just not Axis2 project
> > alone. Axiom and others are integral parts of it. Couple of
> > challenges/questions from me.
> >
> > 1. Let's take the Glen's proposal on two projects and list down the
> > developers in each project.
> Hehe , then what Apache should do is remove all the TLPs and their PMC's
> and list down developers in different projects :)
I think you didn't get what I meant here. According to Glen's suggestion,
Axiom and Axis2 will be on two different projects. What is the meaning of
that if its the same people in both the groups.
Also one more concern. I think Axis2/Java is more connected to Axiom than
Axis2/C. So keeping Axis2/C and Axis2/Java in one project and leaving out
Axiom makes no sense to me.
Removing all the TLPs in Apache is not by any means analogous to that.
> The one idea of TLP is to build small communities and improve them ,
> then automatically Apache as a whole will be improved.
Nice quote Deepal. You have already started to become a philosopher ;)
>
> > So is it worth doing this? I'm extremely sorry if I'm missing
> > something, but still I can not see a compelling argument to move on to
> > a new TLP.
> As I can see you looking at the problem in differently ,
its not about
> who is going to be the PMC chair , or whether we are going to become a
> PMC in some other list. Its about get more visibility to the projects
> and enhance the project.
Wow, what sort of *more* visibility you will get by doing this? Can you
please elaborate a bit? Will we see thousands of more Axis2 downloads after
this? Or will see developers competing to send patches to Axis2 and Axiom?
I personally think creating separate TLPs will create more problems and
unnecessary separation within the community.
Thanks,
Chinthaka
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
Eran Chinthaka wrote:
> I hope I'm still not late to comment on this.
>
> I'm also with Sanjiva on this issue. Axis2 is just not Axis2 project
> alone. Axiom and others are integral parts of it. Couple of
> challenges/questions from me.
>
> 1. Let's take the Glen's proposal on two projects and list down the
> developers in each project.
Hehe , then what Apache should do is remove all the TLPs and their PMC's
and list down developers in different projects :)
The one idea of TLP is to build small communities and improve them ,
then automatically Apache as a whole will be improved.
> "If we can find people to man the PMC's and act as chair, sure, let's
> get more projects as TLP's"., will that hold?
If the project addresses a potential problem , yes we should.
If this is the case , then I think apache member level we have to take
some other decision , where there are a number of project doing the same
thing and they are considered as TLP.
> So is it worth doing this? I'm extremely sorry if I'm missing
> something, but still I can not see a compelling argument to move on to
> a new TLP.
As I can see you looking at the problem in differently , its not about
who is going to be the PMC chair , or whether we are going to become a
PMC in some other list. Its about get more visibility to the projects
and enhance the project.
-Deepal
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Chinthaka
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 7:20 PM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Anything that is usable/shipped with Axis2 or depends on Axis2 IMHO.
>
> -- dims
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
Eran Chinthaka wrote:
> I hope I'm still not late to comment on this.
>
> I'm also with Sanjiva on this issue. Axis2 is just not Axis2 project
> alone. Axiom and others are integral parts of it. Couple of
> challenges/questions from me.
>
> 1. Let's take the Glen's proposal on two projects and list down the
> developers in each project.
Hehe , then what Apache should do is remove all the TLPs and their PMC's
and list down developers in different projects :)
The one idea of TLP is to build small communities and improve them ,
then automatically Apache as a whole will be improved.
> "If we can find people to man the PMC's and act as chair, sure, let's
> get more projects as TLP's"., will that hold?
If the project addresses a potential problem , yes we should.
If this is the case , then I think apache member level we have to take
some other decision , where there are a number of project doing the same
thing and they are considered as TLP.
> So is it worth doing this? I'm extremely sorry if I'm missing
> something, but still I can not see a compelling argument to move on to
> a new TLP.
As I can see you looking at the problem in differently , its not about
who is going to be the PMC chair , or whether we are going to become a
PMC in some other list. Its about get more visibility to the projects
and enhance the project.
-Deepal
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Chinthaka
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 7:20 PM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Anything that is usable/shipped with Axis2 or depends on Axis2 IMHO.
>
> -- dims
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Eran,
1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything
that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP.
2. IMHO, Any existing committers who would like to join the new TLP
can join as committers and be on the PMC as well.
3. I was going to nominate Deepal as TLP Chair. (Believe me, i can't
take the politics / crap anymore!)
4. Glen would continue to either moth ball projects in WS or spin them
off as TLP's. This role was done by Henri in Jakarta.
5. All the Devs can continue on WS projects if they choose to...see
#1, they need be active only the new TLP if they are working on / with
Axis2 related projects.
thanks,
dims
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:04 AM, Eran Chinthaka
<er...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hope I'm still not late to comment on this.
>
> I'm also with Sanjiva on this issue. Axis2 is just not Axis2 project alone.
> Axiom and others are integral parts of it. Couple of challenges/questions
> from me.
>
> 1. Let's take the Glen's proposal on two projects and list down the
> developers in each project. Do you see any difference in those lists? So
> Dims your argument, "If we can find people to man the PMC's and act as
> chair, sure, let's get more projects as TLP's"., will that hold?
> 2. If people can remember how the PMC nominations were it sounded like "Mr X
> was active on Axis2, Axiom, XmlSchema, etc.,". I think most of PMC members
> comes under that definition.
>
> Aggregating above two comments, will Dims argument of small teams still
> hold?
>
> 3. Will Glen as a chair will gain anything? Yes, he might have to ask for
> fewer reports and his report will be shorter. But will this change after the
> proposed changes, from board point of view?
>
> 4. If there is a vote for this, is it the simple majority who wins?
>
> The only differences I see in this
>
> 1. One more person will get to be a PMC chair (whoever sends highest number
> of mails for this separation should get this position :D. So its not me ;) )
> 2. All the other devs will have the luxury of being in two different PMCs
> (Yey !!)
> 3. We will have two guys preparing the same report, which was used to be
> prepared by a single person.
>
> So is it worth doing this? I'm extremely sorry if I'm missing something, but
> still I can not see a compelling argument to move on to a new TLP.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Chinthaka
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 7:20 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Anything that is usable/shipped with Axis2 or depends on Axis2 IMHO.
>>
>> -- dims
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>> > So Glen, if we're talking about a new TLP what are the proposed
>> > components
>> > under it? What will remain in the ws TLP because they don't have enough
>> > ammo
>> > to be a TLP?
>> >
>> > Sanjiva.
>> >
>> > Glen Daniels wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi dims, all:
>> >>
>> >> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> For a few years now, there is a growing consensus at the board level
>> >>> that a small focused PMC that directly reports to the board is better
>> >>> than a huge umbrella PMCs. two umbrella PMC's have already made
>> >>> transitions including XML and Jakarta.
>> >>
>> >> +1. As PMC chair, I've definitely had a challenging time keeping up
>> >> with
>> >> everything going on in all the subprojects, and from a purely practical
>> >> point of view, the board reports each quarter are pretty darn long.
>> >>
>> >>> One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer
>> >>> set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues
>> >>> and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge
>> >>> umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived
>> >>> after it left the fold.
>> >>
>> >> +1
>> >>
>> >>> Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release
>> >>> schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s).
>> >>> Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job?
>> >>
>> >> Point taken.
>> >>
>> >>> We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that.
>> >>> A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a
>> >>> good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to
>> >>> go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP.
>> >>
>> >> I agree.
>> >>
>> >>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>> >>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>> >>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>> >>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>> >>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>> >>> that as well with this proposal.
>> >>
>> >> Well said! This was an excellent note, dims.
>> >>
>> >> I also very much believe that an Axis2 TLP will help get us focused on
>> >> moving forward.
>> >>
>> >>> fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go
>> >>> TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people
>> >>> involved there or we end up moth-balling them.
>> >>
>> >> Well, yeah - they're certainly not TLP-capable, but as they're already
>> >> subprojects I'd like to put off the decision to moth-ball them for a
>> >> while
>> >> as long as there is at least one person dedicated to working on them...
>> >> hence the proposal to keep these guys under WS.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> --Glen
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>> > Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>> > Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> > Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>> >
>> > Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> With Mettha,
> Eran Chinthaka
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Health is the greatest gift; contentment is the greatest wealth; trusting is
> the best relationship; nirvana is the highest joy. - Dhammapada
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Eran Chinthaka <er...@gmail.com>.
I hope I'm still not late to comment on this.
I'm also with Sanjiva on this issue. Axis2 is just not Axis2 project alone.
Axiom and others are integral parts of it. Couple of challenges/questions
from me.
1. Let's take the Glen's proposal on two projects and list down the
developers in each project. Do you see any difference in those lists? So
Dims your argument, "If we can find people to man the PMC's and act as
chair, sure, let's get more projects as TLP's"., will that hold?
2. If people can remember how the PMC nominations were it sounded like "Mr X
was active on Axis2, Axiom, XmlSchema, etc.,". I think most of PMC members
comes under that definition.
Aggregating above two comments, will Dims argument of small teams still
hold?
3. Will Glen as a chair will gain anything? Yes, he might have to ask for
fewer reports and his report will be shorter. But will this change after the
proposed changes, from board point of view?
4. If there is a vote for this, is it the simple majority who wins?
The only differences I see in this
1. One more person will get to be a PMC chair (whoever sends highest number
of mails for this separation should get this position :D. So its not me ;) )
2. All the other devs will have the luxury of being in two different PMCs
(Yey !!)
3. We will have two guys preparing the same report, which was used to be
prepared by a single person.
So is it worth doing this? I'm extremely sorry if I'm missing something, but
still I can not see a compelling argument to move on to a new TLP.
Just my 2 cents.
Chinthaka
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 7:20 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anything that is usable/shipped with Axis2 or depends on Axis2 IMHO.
>
> -- dims
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> > So Glen, if we're talking about a new TLP what are the proposed
> components
> > under it? What will remain in the ws TLP because they don't have enough
> ammo
> > to be a TLP?
> >
> > Sanjiva.
> >
> > Glen Daniels wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi dims, all:
> >>
> >> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> >>>
> >>> For a few years now, there is a growing consensus at the board level
> >>> that a small focused PMC that directly reports to the board is better
> >>> than a huge umbrella PMCs. two umbrella PMC's have already made
> >>> transitions including XML and Jakarta.
> >>
> >> +1. As PMC chair, I've definitely had a challenging time keeping up
> with
> >> everything going on in all the subprojects, and from a purely practical
> >> point of view, the board reports each quarter are pretty darn long.
> >>
> >>> One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer
> >>> set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues
> >>> and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge
> >>> umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived
> >>> after it left the fold.
> >>
> >> +1
> >>
> >>> Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release
> >>> schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s).
> >>> Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job?
> >>
> >> Point taken.
> >>
> >>> We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that.
> >>> A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a
> >>> good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to
> >>> go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP.
> >>
> >> I agree.
> >>
> >>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
> >>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
> >>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
> >>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
> >>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
> >>> that as well with this proposal.
> >>
> >> Well said! This was an excellent note, dims.
> >>
> >> I also very much believe that an Axis2 TLP will help get us focused on
> >> moving forward.
> >>
> >>> fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go
> >>> TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people
> >>> involved there or we end up moth-balling them.
> >>
> >> Well, yeah - they're certainly not TLP-capable, but as they're already
> >> subprojects I'd like to put off the decision to moth-ball them for a
> while
> >> as long as there is at least one person dedicated to working on them...
> >> hence the proposal to keep these guys under WS.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> --Glen
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> > Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> > Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> > Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
> >
> > Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
With Mettha,
Eran Chinthaka
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Health is the greatest gift; contentment is the greatest wealth; trusting is
the best relationship; nirvana is the highest joy. - Dhammapada
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Anything that is usable/shipped with Axis2 or depends on Axis2 IMHO.
-- dims
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> So Glen, if we're talking about a new TLP what are the proposed components
> under it? What will remain in the ws TLP because they don't have enough ammo
> to be a TLP?
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Glen Daniels wrote:
>>
>> Hi dims, all:
>>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>
>>> For a few years now, there is a growing consensus at the board level
>>> that a small focused PMC that directly reports to the board is better
>>> than a huge umbrella PMCs. two umbrella PMC's have already made
>>> transitions including XML and Jakarta.
>>
>> +1. As PMC chair, I've definitely had a challenging time keeping up with
>> everything going on in all the subprojects, and from a purely practical
>> point of view, the board reports each quarter are pretty darn long.
>>
>>> One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer
>>> set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues
>>> and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge
>>> umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived
>>> after it left the fold.
>>
>> +1
>>
>>> Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release
>>> schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s).
>>> Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job?
>>
>> Point taken.
>>
>>> We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that.
>>> A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a
>>> good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to
>>> go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP.
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>>> that as well with this proposal.
>>
>> Well said! This was an excellent note, dims.
>>
>> I also very much believe that an Axis2 TLP will help get us focused on
>> moving forward.
>>
>>> fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go
>>> TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people
>>> involved there or we end up moth-balling them.
>>
>> Well, yeah - they're certainly not TLP-capable, but as they're already
>> subprojects I'd like to put off the decision to moth-ball them for a while
>> as long as there is at least one person dedicated to working on them...
>> hence the proposal to keep these guys under WS.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --Glen
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Anything that is usable/shipped with Axis2 or depends on Axis2 IMHO.
-- dims
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> So Glen, if we're talking about a new TLP what are the proposed components
> under it? What will remain in the ws TLP because they don't have enough ammo
> to be a TLP?
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Glen Daniels wrote:
>>
>> Hi dims, all:
>>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>
>>> For a few years now, there is a growing consensus at the board level
>>> that a small focused PMC that directly reports to the board is better
>>> than a huge umbrella PMCs. two umbrella PMC's have already made
>>> transitions including XML and Jakarta.
>>
>> +1. As PMC chair, I've definitely had a challenging time keeping up with
>> everything going on in all the subprojects, and from a purely practical
>> point of view, the board reports each quarter are pretty darn long.
>>
>>> One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer
>>> set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues
>>> and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge
>>> umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived
>>> after it left the fold.
>>
>> +1
>>
>>> Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release
>>> schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s).
>>> Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job?
>>
>> Point taken.
>>
>>> We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that.
>>> A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a
>>> good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to
>>> go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP.
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>>> that as well with this proposal.
>>
>> Well said! This was an excellent note, dims.
>>
>> I also very much believe that an Axis2 TLP will help get us focused on
>> moving forward.
>>
>>> fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go
>>> TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people
>>> involved there or we end up moth-balling them.
>>
>> Well, yeah - they're certainly not TLP-capable, but as they're already
>> subprojects I'd like to put off the decision to moth-ball them for a while
>> as long as there is at least one person dedicated to working on them...
>> hence the proposal to keep these guys under WS.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --Glen
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
So Glen, if we're talking about a new TLP what are the proposed components
under it? What will remain in the ws TLP because they don't have enough
ammo to be a TLP?
Sanjiva.
Glen Daniels wrote:
> Hi dims, all:
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>> For a few years now, there is a growing consensus at the board level
>> that a small focused PMC that directly reports to the board is better
>> than a huge umbrella PMCs. two umbrella PMC's have already made
>> transitions including XML and Jakarta.
>
> +1. As PMC chair, I've definitely had a challenging time keeping up
> with everything going on in all the subprojects, and from a purely
> practical point of view, the board reports each quarter are pretty darn
> long.
>
>> One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer
>> set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues
>> and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge
>> umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived
>> after it left the fold.
>
> +1
>
>> Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release
>> schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s).
>> Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job?
>
> Point taken.
>
>> We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that.
>> A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a
>> good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to
>> go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP.
>
> I agree.
>
>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>> that as well with this proposal.
>
> Well said! This was an excellent note, dims.
>
> I also very much believe that an Axis2 TLP will help get us focused on
> moving forward.
>
>> fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go
>> TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people
>> involved there or we end up moth-balling them.
>
> Well, yeah - they're certainly not TLP-capable, but as they're already
> subprojects I'd like to put off the decision to moth-ball them for a
> while as long as there is at least one person dedicated to working on
> them... hence the proposal to keep these guys under WS.
>
> Thanks,
> --Glen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
So Glen, if we're talking about a new TLP what are the proposed components
under it? What will remain in the ws TLP because they don't have enough
ammo to be a TLP?
Sanjiva.
Glen Daniels wrote:
> Hi dims, all:
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>> For a few years now, there is a growing consensus at the board level
>> that a small focused PMC that directly reports to the board is better
>> than a huge umbrella PMCs. two umbrella PMC's have already made
>> transitions including XML and Jakarta.
>
> +1. As PMC chair, I've definitely had a challenging time keeping up
> with everything going on in all the subprojects, and from a purely
> practical point of view, the board reports each quarter are pretty darn
> long.
>
>> One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer
>> set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues
>> and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge
>> umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived
>> after it left the fold.
>
> +1
>
>> Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release
>> schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s).
>> Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job?
>
> Point taken.
>
>> We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that.
>> A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a
>> good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to
>> go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP.
>
> I agree.
>
>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>> that as well with this proposal.
>
> Well said! This was an excellent note, dims.
>
> I also very much believe that an Axis2 TLP will help get us focused on
> moving forward.
>
>> fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go
>> TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people
>> involved there or we end up moth-balling them.
>
> Well, yeah - they're certainly not TLP-capable, but as they're already
> subprojects I'd like to put off the decision to moth-ball them for a
> while as long as there is at least one person dedicated to working on
> them... hence the proposal to keep these guys under WS.
>
> Thanks,
> --Glen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com>.
Hi dims, all:
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> For a few years now, there is a growing consensus at the board level
> that a small focused PMC that directly reports to the board is better
> than a huge umbrella PMCs. two umbrella PMC's have already made
> transitions including XML and Jakarta.
+1. As PMC chair, I've definitely had a challenging time keeping up
with everything going on in all the subprojects, and from a purely
practical point of view, the board reports each quarter are pretty darn
long.
> One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer
> set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues
> and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge
> umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived
> after it left the fold.
+1
> Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release
> schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s).
> Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job?
Point taken.
> We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that.
> A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a
> good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to
> go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP.
I agree.
> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
> that as well with this proposal.
Well said! This was an excellent note, dims.
I also very much believe that an Axis2 TLP will help get us focused on
moving forward.
> fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go
> TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people
> involved there or we end up moth-balling them.
Well, yeah - they're certainly not TLP-capable, but as they're already
subprojects I'd like to put off the decision to moth-ball them for a
while as long as there is at least one person dedicated to working on
them... hence the proposal to keep these guys under WS.
Thanks,
--Glen
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Deepal,
yep, not taking care of them is what i meant. Yep, i totally
understand day-to-day work.
thanks,
dims
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer
>> set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues
>> and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge
>> umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived
>> after it left the fold.
>>
> I have to agree with Dims here , because at the moment WS is a very big
> project with a number of sub-projects.
> And WS consists of three main project as well , which is Apache SOAP ,
> Axis1 and Axis2.
> Specially Axis1 and Axis2 has a number of sub projects as well. So
> managing them efficient manner is a challenging job ,
> and specially for the PMC chair it is lot of work. Therefore it is
> always a good idea to modularize them.
>> Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release
>> schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s).
>> Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job?
>>
> I am sorry I do not understand what do you mean by bug tracker , is that
> the problem of number of issues
> or is it a problem of we are not taking care of them ?
>> We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that.
>> A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a
>> good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to
>> go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP.
>>
> :)
>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>> that as well with this proposal.
>>
> Well part of the reason behind that is everyone is busy with their day
> to day work ,
> for example when we start Axis2 we were fully focus on Axis2 .
> So it was so easy for us to do all those , but now we work on Axis2 and
> answer the mail
> when we get some free time. Anyway I agree that there are some
> improvements that we need to do.
>
>
> Thanks
> Deepal
>> fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go
>> TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people
>> involved there or we end up moth-balling them.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of
>>> enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream components
>>> (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the "web services"
>>> project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the
>>> whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2.
>>>
>>> I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are
>>> retired or "finished". These include (from what I know) scout, wsif, axis1,
>>> jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there are
>>> parts of the "axis1 family" still alive and kicking.
>>>
>>> There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for
>>> example juddi & xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce
>>> the size of ws.
>>>
>>> So I'm -1.
>>>
>>> However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is there
>>> something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against
>>> splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and
>>> against by both Glen and Dims too.
>>>
>>> Sanjiva.
>>>
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>>>
>>>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>>>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>
>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Thank you!
>
>
> http://blogs.deepal.org
>
>
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>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
>
>> Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly "done" .. I have no
>> objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of
>> changes to axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I
>> see need to be fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots
>> of small issues, but those don't warrant / motivate the types of
>> weekly chats and architectural conversations that we had in the early
>> days.
>
> HTTPD has been around a lot longer than the WS project. Despite its
> "bakedness", people routinely fix bugs, usability issues, submit
> patches, etc. The development community is often around on IRC. In
> short, it's an active and functional community around a live codebase.
>
> I think Axis2 is, honestly, far from "done". And a bunch of the
> 515(!) JIRAs as of right now are real problems with either
> functionality or usability. We're not seeing these getting picked off
> on any kind of regular basis, so regardless of the TLP decision I
> think it's clear that the team as a whole needs to pay a little more
> attention to the project, and get that sense of active and functional
> community back.
>
>> IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around
>> Axis2, not in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that
>> plug in more stuff, writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all
>> hang around axis2 but that doesn't make axis2 itself really improve.
>
> Two things here - first, I think that those kinds of things DO make
> Axis2 itself improve, because they often stretch the boundaries in
> ways that demonstrate blind spots or problems in the core (example -
> async transports and the core threading (or lack thereof) model).
> Second, you're exactly right that there is a lot of work going on
> around Axis2, which is why making it a TLP with Rampart, Sandesha,
> etc., as subprojects seems to make a lot of sense.
+1 , and I think WS is a biggest project in Apache (I mean if we compare
the number of sub-projects) . In addition to that just because Axis2 is
Web service processing project I do not think that should live inside
the WS , if you look at CXF as en example , then it also come under WS.
But which is not the case.
-Deepal
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
If we can find people to man the PMC's and act as chair, sure, let's
get more projects as TLP's.
-- dims
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> Glen, so if you agree that its a TLP with Axis2 + up stream and downstream
> projects then why not push the other stuff from ws into their own TLPs? If
> we want to consider a new name for the ws project that's an option too but
> that's a different issue isn't it?
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Glen Daniels wrote:
>>
>> Hi Sanjiva:
>>
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
>>>
>>> Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly "done" .. I have no
>>> objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of changes to
>>> axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I see need to be
>>> fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of small issues, but
>>> those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly chats and architectural
>>> conversations that we had in the early days.
>>
>> HTTPD has been around a lot longer than the WS project. Despite its
>> "bakedness", people routinely fix bugs, usability issues, submit patches,
>> etc. The development community is often around on IRC. In short, it's an
>> active and functional community around a live codebase.
>>
>> I think Axis2 is, honestly, far from "done". And a bunch of the 515(!)
>> JIRAs as of right now are real problems with either functionality or
>> usability. We're not seeing these getting picked off on any kind of regular
>> basis, so regardless of the TLP decision I think it's clear that the team as
>> a whole needs to pay a little more attention to the project, and get that
>> sense of active and functional community back.
>>
>>> IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2,
>>> not in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in more
>>> stuff, writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around axis2 but
>>> that doesn't make axis2 itself really improve.
>>
>> Two things here - first, I think that those kinds of things DO make Axis2
>> itself improve, because they often stretch the boundaries in ways that
>> demonstrate blind spots or problems in the core (example - async transports
>> and the core threading (or lack thereof) model). Second, you're exactly
>> right that there is a lot of work going on around Axis2, which is why making
>> it a TLP with Rampart, Sandesha, etc., as subprojects seems to make a lot of
>> sense.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --Glen
>>
>>
>> --Glen
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
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>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
If we can find people to man the PMC's and act as chair, sure, let's
get more projects as TLP's.
-- dims
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> Glen, so if you agree that its a TLP with Axis2 + up stream and downstream
> projects then why not push the other stuff from ws into their own TLPs? If
> we want to consider a new name for the ws project that's an option too but
> that's a different issue isn't it?
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Glen Daniels wrote:
>>
>> Hi Sanjiva:
>>
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
>>>
>>> Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly "done" .. I have no
>>> objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of changes to
>>> axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I see need to be
>>> fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of small issues, but
>>> those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly chats and architectural
>>> conversations that we had in the early days.
>>
>> HTTPD has been around a lot longer than the WS project. Despite its
>> "bakedness", people routinely fix bugs, usability issues, submit patches,
>> etc. The development community is often around on IRC. In short, it's an
>> active and functional community around a live codebase.
>>
>> I think Axis2 is, honestly, far from "done". And a bunch of the 515(!)
>> JIRAs as of right now are real problems with either functionality or
>> usability. We're not seeing these getting picked off on any kind of regular
>> basis, so regardless of the TLP decision I think it's clear that the team as
>> a whole needs to pay a little more attention to the project, and get that
>> sense of active and functional community back.
>>
>>> IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2,
>>> not in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in more
>>> stuff, writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around axis2 but
>>> that doesn't make axis2 itself really improve.
>>
>> Two things here - first, I think that those kinds of things DO make Axis2
>> itself improve, because they often stretch the boundaries in ways that
>> demonstrate blind spots or problems in the core (example - async transports
>> and the core threading (or lack thereof) model). Second, you're exactly
>> right that there is a lot of work going on around Axis2, which is why making
>> it a TLP with Rampart, Sandesha, etc., as subprojects seems to make a lot of
>> sense.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --Glen
>>
>>
>> --Glen
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Glen, so if you agree that its a TLP with Axis2 + up stream and downstream
projects then why not push the other stuff from ws into their own TLPs? If
we want to consider a new name for the ws project that's an option too but
that's a different issue isn't it?
Sanjiva.
Glen Daniels wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva:
>
> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
>> Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly "done" .. I have no
>> objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of
>> changes to axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I
>> see need to be fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of
>> small issues, but those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly
>> chats and architectural conversations that we had in the early days.
>
> HTTPD has been around a lot longer than the WS project. Despite its
> "bakedness", people routinely fix bugs, usability issues, submit
> patches, etc. The development community is often around on IRC. In
> short, it's an active and functional community around a live codebase.
>
> I think Axis2 is, honestly, far from "done". And a bunch of the 515(!)
> JIRAs as of right now are real problems with either functionality or
> usability. We're not seeing these getting picked off on any kind of
> regular basis, so regardless of the TLP decision I think it's clear that
> the team as a whole needs to pay a little more attention to the project,
> and get that sense of active and functional community back.
>
>> IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2,
>> not in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in
>> more stuff, writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around
>> axis2 but that doesn't make axis2 itself really improve.
>
> Two things here - first, I think that those kinds of things DO make
> Axis2 itself improve, because they often stretch the boundaries in ways
> that demonstrate blind spots or problems in the core (example - async
> transports and the core threading (or lack thereof) model). Second,
> you're exactly right that there is a lot of work going on around Axis2,
> which is why making it a TLP with Rampart, Sandesha, etc., as
> subprojects seems to make a lot of sense.
>
> Thanks,
> --Glen
>
>
> --Glen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Glen, so if you agree that its a TLP with Axis2 + up stream and downstream
projects then why not push the other stuff from ws into their own TLPs? If
we want to consider a new name for the ws project that's an option too but
that's a different issue isn't it?
Sanjiva.
Glen Daniels wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva:
>
> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
>> Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly "done" .. I have no
>> objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of
>> changes to axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I
>> see need to be fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of
>> small issues, but those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly
>> chats and architectural conversations that we had in the early days.
>
> HTTPD has been around a lot longer than the WS project. Despite its
> "bakedness", people routinely fix bugs, usability issues, submit
> patches, etc. The development community is often around on IRC. In
> short, it's an active and functional community around a live codebase.
>
> I think Axis2 is, honestly, far from "done". And a bunch of the 515(!)
> JIRAs as of right now are real problems with either functionality or
> usability. We're not seeing these getting picked off on any kind of
> regular basis, so regardless of the TLP decision I think it's clear that
> the team as a whole needs to pay a little more attention to the project,
> and get that sense of active and functional community back.
>
>> IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2,
>> not in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in
>> more stuff, writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around
>> axis2 but that doesn't make axis2 itself really improve.
>
> Two things here - first, I think that those kinds of things DO make
> Axis2 itself improve, because they often stretch the boundaries in ways
> that demonstrate blind spots or problems in the core (example - async
> transports and the core threading (or lack thereof) model). Second,
> you're exactly right that there is a lot of work going on around Axis2,
> which is why making it a TLP with Rampart, Sandesha, etc., as
> subprojects seems to make a lot of sense.
>
> Thanks,
> --Glen
>
>
> --Glen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com>.
Hi Sanjiva:
Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
> Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly "done" .. I have no
> objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of changes
> to axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I see need to
> be fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of small issues,
> but those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly chats and
> architectural conversations that we had in the early days.
HTTPD has been around a lot longer than the WS project. Despite its
"bakedness", people routinely fix bugs, usability issues, submit
patches, etc. The development community is often around on IRC. In
short, it's an active and functional community around a live codebase.
I think Axis2 is, honestly, far from "done". And a bunch of the 515(!)
JIRAs as of right now are real problems with either functionality or
usability. We're not seeing these getting picked off on any kind of
regular basis, so regardless of the TLP decision I think it's clear that
the team as a whole needs to pay a little more attention to the project,
and get that sense of active and functional community back.
> IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2,
> not in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in more
> stuff, writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around axis2
> but that doesn't make axis2 itself really improve.
Two things here - first, I think that those kinds of things DO make
Axis2 itself improve, because they often stretch the boundaries in ways
that demonstrate blind spots or problems in the core (example - async
transports and the core threading (or lack thereof) model). Second,
you're exactly right that there is a lot of work going on around Axis2,
which is why making it a TLP with Rampart, Sandesha, etc., as
subprojects seems to make a lot of sense.
Thanks,
--Glen
--Glen
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com>.
Hi Sanjiva:
Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
> Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly "done" .. I have no
> objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of changes
> to axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I see need to
> be fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of small issues,
> but those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly chats and
> architectural conversations that we had in the early days.
HTTPD has been around a lot longer than the WS project. Despite its
"bakedness", people routinely fix bugs, usability issues, submit
patches, etc. The development community is often around on IRC. In
short, it's an active and functional community around a live codebase.
I think Axis2 is, honestly, far from "done". And a bunch of the 515(!)
JIRAs as of right now are real problems with either functionality or
usability. We're not seeing these getting picked off on any kind of
regular basis, so regardless of the TLP decision I think it's clear that
the team as a whole needs to pay a little more attention to the project,
and get that sense of active and functional community back.
> IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2,
> not in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in more
> stuff, writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around axis2
> but that doesn't make axis2 itself really improve.
Two things here - first, I think that those kinds of things DO make
Axis2 itself improve, because they often stretch the boundaries in ways
that demonstrate blind spots or problems in the core (example - async
transports and the core threading (or lack thereof) model). Second,
you're exactly right that there is a lot of work going on around Axis2,
which is why making it a TLP with Rampart, Sandesha, etc., as
subprojects seems to make a lot of sense.
Thanks,
--Glen
--Glen
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Let's flip the question, What do you have with Status Quo that you are
so opposed to change for the better?
-- dims
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> How does becoming a TLP change the status quo for getting things done?
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> No one is asking that everyone needs to get excited at the proposal.
>> If people are interested, let it move forward. If no one is
>> interested, it will just drop dead. If people take this forward, they
>> will decide what to do next when the TLP is formed, no one will be
>> forced to sign up for work or need to get excited unnecessarily.
>>
>> In other words, Status Quo sucks! let's try something. If it works
>> that's fine. If it doesn't there will be just another TLP. Hey we get
>> one more guy to become a VP :)
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>>>>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>>>>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>>>>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>>>>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>>>>> that as well with this proposal.
>>>>>
>>>> Well part of the reason behind that is everyone is busy with their day
>>>> to day work ,
>>>> for example when we start Axis2 we were fully focus on Axis2 .
>>>> So it was so easy for us to do all those , but now we work on Axis2 and
>>>> answer the mail
>>>> when we get some free time. Anyway I agree that there are some
>>>> improvements that we need to do.
>>>
>>> Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly "done" .. I have no
>>> objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of changes
>>> to
>>> axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I see need to be
>>> fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of small issues, but
>>> those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly chats and
>>> architectural
>>> conversations that we had in the early days.
>>>
>>> IMO the kernel of a SOAP stack is mostly a solved problem now. I think
>>> even
>>> CXF is seeing that .. and you don't see people writing new soap stacks
>>> any
>>> more!
>>>
>>> Again, if someone has a cool idea for a radical innovation what would
>>> drive
>>> yet another order of magnitude improvement (or there abouts) then I'm all
>>> ears for it. I personally haven't "seen the light" on how to improve the
>>> core of Axis2 & CXF any more at this point. That absolutely could change
>>> tomorrow, next week, next month or next year but not today, at least for
>>> me.
>>> I'm not talking about incremental changes but rather radical innovation -
>>> the type of thing that will grab people and get their creative juices
>>> flowing.
>>>
>>> IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2,
>>> not
>>> in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in more
>>> stuff,
>>> writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around axis2 but that
>>> doesn't make axis2 itself really improve.
>>>
>>> Sanjiva.
>>> --
>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>
>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Let's flip the question, What do you have with Status Quo that you are
so opposed to change for the better?
-- dims
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> How does becoming a TLP change the status quo for getting things done?
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> No one is asking that everyone needs to get excited at the proposal.
>> If people are interested, let it move forward. If no one is
>> interested, it will just drop dead. If people take this forward, they
>> will decide what to do next when the TLP is formed, no one will be
>> forced to sign up for work or need to get excited unnecessarily.
>>
>> In other words, Status Quo sucks! let's try something. If it works
>> that's fine. If it doesn't there will be just another TLP. Hey we get
>> one more guy to become a VP :)
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>>>>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>>>>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>>>>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>>>>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>>>>> that as well with this proposal.
>>>>>
>>>> Well part of the reason behind that is everyone is busy with their day
>>>> to day work ,
>>>> for example when we start Axis2 we were fully focus on Axis2 .
>>>> So it was so easy for us to do all those , but now we work on Axis2 and
>>>> answer the mail
>>>> when we get some free time. Anyway I agree that there are some
>>>> improvements that we need to do.
>>>
>>> Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly "done" .. I have no
>>> objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of changes
>>> to
>>> axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I see need to be
>>> fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of small issues, but
>>> those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly chats and
>>> architectural
>>> conversations that we had in the early days.
>>>
>>> IMO the kernel of a SOAP stack is mostly a solved problem now. I think
>>> even
>>> CXF is seeing that .. and you don't see people writing new soap stacks
>>> any
>>> more!
>>>
>>> Again, if someone has a cool idea for a radical innovation what would
>>> drive
>>> yet another order of magnitude improvement (or there abouts) then I'm all
>>> ears for it. I personally haven't "seen the light" on how to improve the
>>> core of Axis2 & CXF any more at this point. That absolutely could change
>>> tomorrow, next week, next month or next year but not today, at least for
>>> me.
>>> I'm not talking about incremental changes but rather radical innovation -
>>> the type of thing that will grab people and get their creative juices
>>> flowing.
>>>
>>> IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2,
>>> not
>>> in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in more
>>> stuff,
>>> writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around axis2 but that
>>> doesn't make axis2 itself really improve.
>>>
>>> Sanjiva.
>>> --
>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>
>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
How does becoming a TLP change the status quo for getting things done?
Sanjiva.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> No one is asking that everyone needs to get excited at the proposal.
> If people are interested, let it move forward. If no one is
> interested, it will just drop dead. If people take this forward, they
> will decide what to do next when the TLP is formed, no one will be
> forced to sign up for work or need to get excited unnecessarily.
>
> In other words, Status Quo sucks! let's try something. If it works
> that's fine. If it doesn't there will be just another TLP. Hey we get
> one more guy to become a VP :)
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>>>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>>>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>>>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>>>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>>>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>>>> that as well with this proposal.
>>>>
>>> Well part of the reason behind that is everyone is busy with their day
>>> to day work ,
>>> for example when we start Axis2 we were fully focus on Axis2 .
>>> So it was so easy for us to do all those , but now we work on Axis2 and
>>> answer the mail
>>> when we get some free time. Anyway I agree that there are some
>>> improvements that we need to do.
>> Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly "done" .. I have no
>> objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of changes to
>> axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I see need to be
>> fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of small issues, but
>> those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly chats and architectural
>> conversations that we had in the early days.
>>
>> IMO the kernel of a SOAP stack is mostly a solved problem now. I think even
>> CXF is seeing that .. and you don't see people writing new soap stacks any
>> more!
>>
>> Again, if someone has a cool idea for a radical innovation what would drive
>> yet another order of magnitude improvement (or there abouts) then I'm all
>> ears for it. I personally haven't "seen the light" on how to improve the
>> core of Axis2 & CXF any more at this point. That absolutely could change
>> tomorrow, next week, next month or next year but not today, at least for me.
>> I'm not talking about incremental changes but rather radical innovation -
>> the type of thing that will grab people and get their creative juices
>> flowing.
>>
>> IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2, not
>> in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in more stuff,
>> writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around axis2 but that
>> doesn't make axis2 itself really improve.
>>
>> Sanjiva.
>> --
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>
>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
How does becoming a TLP change the status quo for getting things done?
Sanjiva.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> No one is asking that everyone needs to get excited at the proposal.
> If people are interested, let it move forward. If no one is
> interested, it will just drop dead. If people take this forward, they
> will decide what to do next when the TLP is formed, no one will be
> forced to sign up for work or need to get excited unnecessarily.
>
> In other words, Status Quo sucks! let's try something. If it works
> that's fine. If it doesn't there will be just another TLP. Hey we get
> one more guy to become a VP :)
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>>>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>>>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>>>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>>>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>>>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>>>> that as well with this proposal.
>>>>
>>> Well part of the reason behind that is everyone is busy with their day
>>> to day work ,
>>> for example when we start Axis2 we were fully focus on Axis2 .
>>> So it was so easy for us to do all those , but now we work on Axis2 and
>>> answer the mail
>>> when we get some free time. Anyway I agree that there are some
>>> improvements that we need to do.
>> Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly "done" .. I have no
>> objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of changes to
>> axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I see need to be
>> fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of small issues, but
>> those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly chats and architectural
>> conversations that we had in the early days.
>>
>> IMO the kernel of a SOAP stack is mostly a solved problem now. I think even
>> CXF is seeing that .. and you don't see people writing new soap stacks any
>> more!
>>
>> Again, if someone has a cool idea for a radical innovation what would drive
>> yet another order of magnitude improvement (or there abouts) then I'm all
>> ears for it. I personally haven't "seen the light" on how to improve the
>> core of Axis2 & CXF any more at this point. That absolutely could change
>> tomorrow, next week, next month or next year but not today, at least for me.
>> I'm not talking about incremental changes but rather radical innovation -
>> the type of thing that will grab people and get their creative juices
>> flowing.
>>
>> IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2, not
>> in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in more stuff,
>> writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around axis2 but that
>> doesn't make axis2 itself really improve.
>>
>> Sanjiva.
>> --
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>
>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
No one is asking that everyone needs to get excited at the proposal.
If people are interested, let it move forward. If no one is
interested, it will just drop dead. If people take this forward, they
will decide what to do next when the TLP is formed, no one will be
forced to sign up for work or need to get excited unnecessarily.
In other words, Status Quo sucks! let's try something. If it works
that's fine. If it doesn't there will be just another TLP. Hey we get
one more guy to become a VP :)
thanks,
dims
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>>>
>>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>>> that as well with this proposal.
>>>
>>
>> Well part of the reason behind that is everyone is busy with their day
>> to day work ,
>> for example when we start Axis2 we were fully focus on Axis2 .
>> So it was so easy for us to do all those , but now we work on Axis2 and
>> answer the mail
>> when we get some free time. Anyway I agree that there are some
>> improvements that we need to do.
>
> Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly "done" .. I have no
> objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of changes to
> axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I see need to be
> fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of small issues, but
> those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly chats and architectural
> conversations that we had in the early days.
>
> IMO the kernel of a SOAP stack is mostly a solved problem now. I think even
> CXF is seeing that .. and you don't see people writing new soap stacks any
> more!
>
> Again, if someone has a cool idea for a radical innovation what would drive
> yet another order of magnitude improvement (or there abouts) then I'm all
> ears for it. I personally haven't "seen the light" on how to improve the
> core of Axis2 & CXF any more at this point. That absolutely could change
> tomorrow, next week, next month or next year but not today, at least for me.
> I'm not talking about incremental changes but rather radical innovation -
> the type of thing that will grab people and get their creative juices
> flowing.
>
> IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2, not
> in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in more stuff,
> writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around axis2 but that
> doesn't make axis2 itself really improve.
>
> Sanjiva.
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
No one is asking that everyone needs to get excited at the proposal.
If people are interested, let it move forward. If no one is
interested, it will just drop dead. If people take this forward, they
will decide what to do next when the TLP is formed, no one will be
forced to sign up for work or need to get excited unnecessarily.
In other words, Status Quo sucks! let's try something. If it works
that's fine. If it doesn't there will be just another TLP. Hey we get
one more guy to become a VP :)
thanks,
dims
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>>>
>>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>>> that as well with this proposal.
>>>
>>
>> Well part of the reason behind that is everyone is busy with their day
>> to day work ,
>> for example when we start Axis2 we were fully focus on Axis2 .
>> So it was so easy for us to do all those , but now we work on Axis2 and
>> answer the mail
>> when we get some free time. Anyway I agree that there are some
>> improvements that we need to do.
>
> Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly "done" .. I have no
> objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of changes to
> axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I see need to be
> fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of small issues, but
> those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly chats and architectural
> conversations that we had in the early days.
>
> IMO the kernel of a SOAP stack is mostly a solved problem now. I think even
> CXF is seeing that .. and you don't see people writing new soap stacks any
> more!
>
> Again, if someone has a cool idea for a radical innovation what would drive
> yet another order of magnitude improvement (or there abouts) then I'm all
> ears for it. I personally haven't "seen the light" on how to improve the
> core of Axis2 & CXF any more at this point. That absolutely could change
> tomorrow, next week, next month or next year but not today, at least for me.
> I'm not talking about incremental changes but rather radical innovation -
> the type of thing that will grab people and get their creative juices
> flowing.
>
> IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2, not
> in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in more stuff,
> writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around axis2 but that
> doesn't make axis2 itself really improve.
>
> Sanjiva.
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>> that as well with this proposal.
>>
> Well part of the reason behind that is everyone is busy with their day
> to day work ,
> for example when we start Axis2 we were fully focus on Axis2 .
> So it was so easy for us to do all those , but now we work on Axis2 and
> answer the mail
> when we get some free time. Anyway I agree that there are some
> improvements that we need to do.
Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly "done" .. I have no
objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of changes to
axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I see need to be
fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of small issues, but
those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly chats and architectural
conversations that we had in the early days.
IMO the kernel of a SOAP stack is mostly a solved problem now. I think
even CXF is seeing that .. and you don't see people writing new soap
stacks any more!
Again, if someone has a cool idea for a radical innovation what would
drive yet another order of magnitude improvement (or there abouts) then
I'm all ears for it. I personally haven't "seen the light" on how to
improve the core of Axis2 & CXF any more at this point. That absolutely
could change tomorrow, next week, next month or next year but not today,
at least for me. I'm not talking about incremental changes but rather
radical innovation - the type of thing that will grab people and get their
creative juices flowing.
IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2, not
in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in more stuff,
writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around axis2 but that
doesn't make axis2 itself really improve.
Sanjiva.
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>> that as well with this proposal.
>>
> Well part of the reason behind that is everyone is busy with their day
> to day work ,
> for example when we start Axis2 we were fully focus on Axis2 .
> So it was so easy for us to do all those , but now we work on Axis2 and
> answer the mail
> when we get some free time. Anyway I agree that there are some
> improvements that we need to do.
Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly "done" .. I have no
objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of changes to
axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I see need to be
fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of small issues, but
those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly chats and architectural
conversations that we had in the early days.
IMO the kernel of a SOAP stack is mostly a solved problem now. I think
even CXF is seeing that .. and you don't see people writing new soap
stacks any more!
Again, if someone has a cool idea for a radical innovation what would
drive yet another order of magnitude improvement (or there abouts) then
I'm all ears for it. I personally haven't "seen the light" on how to
improve the core of Axis2 & CXF any more at this point. That absolutely
could change tomorrow, next week, next month or next year but not today,
at least for me. I'm not talking about incremental changes but rather
radical innovation - the type of thing that will grab people and get their
creative juices flowing.
IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2, not
in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in more stuff,
writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around axis2 but that
doesn't make axis2 itself really improve.
Sanjiva.
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Deepal,
yep, not taking care of them is what i meant. Yep, i totally
understand day-to-day work.
thanks,
dims
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer
>> set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues
>> and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge
>> umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived
>> after it left the fold.
>>
> I have to agree with Dims here , because at the moment WS is a very big
> project with a number of sub-projects.
> And WS consists of three main project as well , which is Apache SOAP ,
> Axis1 and Axis2.
> Specially Axis1 and Axis2 has a number of sub projects as well. So
> managing them efficient manner is a challenging job ,
> and specially for the PMC chair it is lot of work. Therefore it is
> always a good idea to modularize them.
>> Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release
>> schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s).
>> Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job?
>>
> I am sorry I do not understand what do you mean by bug tracker , is that
> the problem of number of issues
> or is it a problem of we are not taking care of them ?
>> We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that.
>> A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a
>> good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to
>> go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP.
>>
> :)
>> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
>> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
>> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
>> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
>> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
>> that as well with this proposal.
>>
> Well part of the reason behind that is everyone is busy with their day
> to day work ,
> for example when we start Axis2 we were fully focus on Axis2 .
> So it was so easy for us to do all those , but now we work on Axis2 and
> answer the mail
> when we get some free time. Anyway I agree that there are some
> improvements that we need to do.
>
>
> Thanks
> Deepal
>> fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go
>> TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people
>> involved there or we end up moth-balling them.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of
>>> enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream components
>>> (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the "web services"
>>> project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the
>>> whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2.
>>>
>>> I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are
>>> retired or "finished". These include (from what I know) scout, wsif, axis1,
>>> jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there are
>>> parts of the "axis1 family" still alive and kicking.
>>>
>>> There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for
>>> example juddi & xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce
>>> the size of ws.
>>>
>>> So I'm -1.
>>>
>>> However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is there
>>> something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against
>>> splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and
>>> against by both Glen and Dims too.
>>>
>>> Sanjiva.
>>>
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>>>
>>>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>>>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>
>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Thank you!
>
>
> http://blogs.deepal.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
> One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer
> set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues
> and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge
> umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived
> after it left the fold.
>
I have to agree with Dims here , because at the moment WS is a very big
project with a number of sub-projects.
And WS consists of three main project as well , which is Apache SOAP ,
Axis1 and Axis2.
Specially Axis1 and Axis2 has a number of sub projects as well. So
managing them efficient manner is a challenging job ,
and specially for the PMC chair it is lot of work. Therefore it is
always a good idea to modularize them.
> Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release
> schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s).
> Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job?
>
I am sorry I do not understand what do you mean by bug tracker , is that
the problem of number of issues
or is it a problem of we are not taking care of them ?
> We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that.
> A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a
> good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to
> go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP.
>
:)
> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
> that as well with this proposal.
>
Well part of the reason behind that is everyone is busy with their day
to day work ,
for example when we start Axis2 we were fully focus on Axis2 .
So it was so easy for us to do all those , but now we work on Axis2 and
answer the mail
when we get some free time. Anyway I agree that there are some
improvements that we need to do.
Thanks
Deepal
> fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go
> TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people
> involved there or we end up moth-balling them.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>
>> I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of
>> enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream components
>> (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the "web services"
>> project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the
>> whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2.
>>
>> I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are
>> retired or "finished". These include (from what I know) scout, wsif, axis1,
>> jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there are
>> parts of the "axis1 family" still alive and kicking.
>>
>> There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for
>> example juddi & xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce
>> the size of ws.
>>
>> So I'm -1.
>>
>> However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is there
>> something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against
>> splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and
>> against by both Glen and Dims too.
>>
>> Sanjiva.
>>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>>
>>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>
>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
> One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer
> set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues
> and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge
> umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived
> after it left the fold.
>
I have to agree with Dims here , because at the moment WS is a very big
project with a number of sub-projects.
And WS consists of three main project as well , which is Apache SOAP ,
Axis1 and Axis2.
Specially Axis1 and Axis2 has a number of sub projects as well. So
managing them efficient manner is a challenging job ,
and specially for the PMC chair it is lot of work. Therefore it is
always a good idea to modularize them.
> Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release
> schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s).
> Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job?
>
I am sorry I do not understand what do you mean by bug tracker , is that
the problem of number of issues
or is it a problem of we are not taking care of them ?
> We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that.
> A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a
> good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to
> go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP.
>
:)
> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
> that as well with this proposal.
>
Well part of the reason behind that is everyone is busy with their day
to day work ,
for example when we start Axis2 we were fully focus on Axis2 .
So it was so easy for us to do all those , but now we work on Axis2 and
answer the mail
when we get some free time. Anyway I agree that there are some
improvements that we need to do.
Thanks
Deepal
> fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go
> TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people
> involved there or we end up moth-balling them.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>
>> I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of
>> enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream components
>> (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the "web services"
>> project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the
>> whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2.
>>
>> I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are
>> retired or "finished". These include (from what I know) scout, wsif, axis1,
>> jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there are
>> parts of the "axis1 family" still alive and kicking.
>>
>> There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for
>> example juddi & xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce
>> the size of ws.
>>
>> So I'm -1.
>>
>> However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is there
>> something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against
>> splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and
>> against by both Glen and Dims too.
>>
>> Sanjiva.
>>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>>
>>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>
>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Thank you!
http://blogs.deepal.org
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com>.
Hi dims, all:
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> For a few years now, there is a growing consensus at the board level
> that a small focused PMC that directly reports to the board is better
> than a huge umbrella PMCs. two umbrella PMC's have already made
> transitions including XML and Jakarta.
+1. As PMC chair, I've definitely had a challenging time keeping up
with everything going on in all the subprojects, and from a purely
practical point of view, the board reports each quarter are pretty darn
long.
> One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer
> set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues
> and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge
> umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived
> after it left the fold.
+1
> Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release
> schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s).
> Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job?
Point taken.
> We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that.
> A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a
> good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to
> go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP.
I agree.
> Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
> able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
> today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
> looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
> looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
> that as well with this proposal.
Well said! This was an excellent note, dims.
I also very much believe that an Axis2 TLP will help get us focused on
moving forward.
> fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go
> TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people
> involved there or we end up moth-balling them.
Well, yeah - they're certainly not TLP-capable, but as they're already
subprojects I'd like to put off the decision to moth-ball them for a
while as long as there is at least one person dedicated to working on
them... hence the proposal to keep these guys under WS.
Thanks,
--Glen
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Dear Team,
For a few years now, there is a growing consensus at the board level
that a small focused PMC that directly reports to the board is better
than a huge umbrella PMCs. two umbrella PMC's have already made
transitions including XML and Jakarta.
One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer
set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues
and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge
umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived
after it left the fold.
Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release
schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s).
Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job?
We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that.
A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a
good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to
go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP.
Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
that as well with this proposal.
fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go
TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people
involved there or we end up moth-balling them.
thanks,
dims
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of
> enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream components
> (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the "web services"
> project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the
> whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2.
>
> I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are
> retired or "finished". These include (from what I know) scout, wsif, axis1,
> jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there are
> parts of the "axis1 family" still alive and kicking.
>
> There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for
> example juddi & xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce
> the size of ws.
>
> So I'm -1.
>
> However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is there
> something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against
> splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and
> against by both Glen and Dims too.
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>
>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Gee...thanks a ton for the clarficiation.
-- dims
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 7:18 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> Jeez I wasn't casting a vote - I expressed my opinion and then made it clear
> using the Apache terminology for expressing positions. Lighten up dude.
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> this is *NOT* a VOTE thread. Please refrain from casting ballots
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of
>>> enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream
>>> components
>>> (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the "web
>>> services"
>>> project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the
>>> whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2.
>>>
>>> I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that
>>> are
>>> retired or "finished". These include (from what I know) scout, wsif,
>>> axis1,
>>> jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there
>>> are
>>> parts of the "axis1 family" still alive and kicking.
>>>
>>> There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for
>>> example juddi & xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce
>>> the size of ws.
>>>
>>> So I'm -1.
>>>
>>> However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is
>>> there
>>> something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against
>>> splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and
>>> against by both Glen and Dims too.
>>>
>>> Sanjiva.
>>>
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>>>
>>>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>>>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>
>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Gee...thanks a ton for the clarficiation.
-- dims
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 7:18 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> Jeez I wasn't casting a vote - I expressed my opinion and then made it clear
> using the Apache terminology for expressing positions. Lighten up dude.
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> this is *NOT* a VOTE thread. Please refrain from casting ballots
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of
>>> enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream
>>> components
>>> (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the "web
>>> services"
>>> project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the
>>> whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2.
>>>
>>> I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that
>>> are
>>> retired or "finished". These include (from what I know) scout, wsif,
>>> axis1,
>>> jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there
>>> are
>>> parts of the "axis1 family" still alive and kicking.
>>>
>>> There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for
>>> example juddi & xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce
>>> the size of ws.
>>>
>>> So I'm -1.
>>>
>>> However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is
>>> there
>>> something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against
>>> splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and
>>> against by both Glen and Dims too.
>>>
>>> Sanjiva.
>>>
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>>>
>>>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>>>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>
>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Jeez I wasn't casting a vote - I expressed my opinion and then made it
clear using the Apache terminology for expressing positions. Lighten up dude.
Sanjiva.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Folks,
>
> this is *NOT* a VOTE thread. Please refrain from casting ballots
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>> I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of
>> enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream components
>> (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the "web services"
>> project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the
>> whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2.
>>
>> I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are
>> retired or "finished". These include (from what I know) scout, wsif, axis1,
>> jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there are
>> parts of the "axis1 family" still alive and kicking.
>>
>> There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for
>> example juddi & xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce
>> the size of ws.
>>
>> So I'm -1.
>>
>> However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is there
>> something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against
>> splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and
>> against by both Glen and Dims too.
>>
>> Sanjiva.
>>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>>
>>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>> --
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>
>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Jeez I wasn't casting a vote - I expressed my opinion and then made it
clear using the Apache terminology for expressing positions. Lighten up dude.
Sanjiva.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Folks,
>
> this is *NOT* a VOTE thread. Please refrain from casting ballots
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>> I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of
>> enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream components
>> (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the "web services"
>> project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the
>> whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2.
>>
>> I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are
>> retired or "finished". These include (from what I know) scout, wsif, axis1,
>> jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there are
>> parts of the "axis1 family" still alive and kicking.
>>
>> There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for
>> example juddi & xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce
>> the size of ws.
>>
>> So I'm -1.
>>
>> However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is there
>> something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against
>> splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and
>> against by both Glen and Dims too.
>>
>> Sanjiva.
>>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>>
>>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>> --
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>
>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Folks,
this is *NOT* a VOTE thread. Please refrain from casting ballots
thanks,
dims
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of
> enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream components
> (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the "web services"
> project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the
> whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2.
>
> I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are
> retired or "finished". These include (from what I know) scout, wsif, axis1,
> jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there are
> parts of the "axis1 family" still alive and kicking.
>
> There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for
> example juddi & xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce
> the size of ws.
>
> So I'm -1.
>
> However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is there
> something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against
> splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and
> against by both Glen and Dims too.
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>
>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Dear Team,
For a few years now, there is a growing consensus at the board level
that a small focused PMC that directly reports to the board is better
than a huge umbrella PMCs. two umbrella PMC's have already made
transitions including XML and Jakarta.
One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer
set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues
and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge
umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived
after it left the fold.
Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release
schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s).
Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job?
We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that.
A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a
good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to
go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP.
Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and
able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are
today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward
looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from
looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart
that as well with this proposal.
fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go
TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people
involved there or we end up moth-balling them.
thanks,
dims
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of
> enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream components
> (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the "web services"
> project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the
> whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2.
>
> I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are
> retired or "finished". These include (from what I know) scout, wsif, axis1,
> jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there are
> parts of the "axis1 family" still alive and kicking.
>
> There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for
> example juddi & xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce
> the size of ws.
>
> So I'm -1.
>
> However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is there
> something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against
> splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and
> against by both Glen and Dims too.
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>
>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Folks,
this is *NOT* a VOTE thread. Please refrain from casting ballots
thanks,
dims
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of
> enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream components
> (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the "web services"
> project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the
> whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2.
>
> I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are
> retired or "finished". These include (from what I know) scout, wsif, axis1,
> jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there are
> parts of the "axis1 family" still alive and kicking.
>
> There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for
> example juddi & xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce
> the size of ws.
>
> So I'm -1.
>
> However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is there
> something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against
> splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and
> against by both Glen and Dims too.
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>
>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of
enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream
components (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the
"web services" project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by
that. Calling the whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2.
I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are
retired or "finished". These include (from what I know) scout, wsif,
axis1, jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows,
there are parts of the "axis1 family" still alive and kicking.
There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for
example juddi & xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce
the size of ws.
So I'm -1.
However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is
there something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always
against splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason
for and against by both Glen and Dims too.
Sanjiva.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Folks,
>
> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>
> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Jarek Gawor <jg...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 11:02 PM, Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com> wrote:
> Hey dims, all:
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>
>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>
> I'm +1 to the idea. Here's what I sent to the PMC after this idea came up
> as a result of our last board report:
>
> ----
>
> From my POV, it's a bit of a tossup. On the one hand, there are
> clearly a lot of sub-projects under the WS umbrella, and it would make
> for a lot less complexity if we split some of them out. On the other,
> there is a fairly large cluster of the projects that really do need to
> maintain a pretty tight coupling, so having a single place they can all
> exchange information is kind of nice too.
>
> I think we can achieve both goals with something like this:
>
> * Axis2 - becomes a TLP for both Java and C versions, with
> Axis2-specific components underneath as subprojects. So Rampart,
> Sandesha, Savan, Kandula....
>
> * Axis1 basically gets retired, with questions still answerable on
> axis-dev/user.
>
> * There are a few common libraries (used both inside and outside Axis2)
> like Axiom and WSS4J that still need a place to live, not to mention the
> other projects like Scout, JAX-RPC, and JUDDI. I'd suggest those stay
> in WS for now, but perhaps get rid of the "commons" idea and upline
> Axiom, Neethi, etc. to subprojects instead of "sub-subprojects". :)
>
> ----
>
> What do people think of that layout?
In general, I'm for this proposal and the layout. Just not sure about
retiring Axis1 since I think there are still people out there using it
(even though not much new development or maintenance is happening).
But as Dims suggested we can vote on that issue separately.
Jarek
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Nadir,
retiring Axis1 is a totally separate thing from Axis2 going TLP. Not
related at all. All of us would get to vote on Axis1 being retired. So
don't worry, if you think it should not be retired then it won't be.
thanks,
dims
On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 11:17 PM, Nadir Amra <am...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> Glen,
>
> Not sure what it means to be TLP, but when you say Axis1 gets retired,
> what does that mean? I currently am working on Axis C++ and do not plan
> on stopping and I hope to finally release a final version of 1.6 in the
> near future, after which I plan on continuing some enhancements. So will
> I still be able to do that?
>
>
> Nadir Amra
>
>
> Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com> wrote on 10/27/2008 10:02:14 PM:
>
>> [image removed]
>
>
>>
>> From my POV, it's a bit of a tossup. On the one hand, there are
>> clearly a lot of sub-projects under the WS umbrella, and it would make
>> for a lot less complexity if we split some of them out. On the other,
>> there is a fairly large cluster of the projects that really do need to
>> maintain a pretty tight coupling, so having a single place they can all
>> exchange information is kind of nice too.
>>
>> I think we can achieve both goals with something like this:
>>
>> * Axis2 - becomes a TLP for both Java and C versions, with
>> Axis2-specific components underneath as subprojects. So Rampart,
>> Sandesha, Savan, Kandula....
>>
>> * Axis1 basically gets retired, with questions still answerable on
>> axis-dev/user.
>>
>> * There are a few common libraries (used both inside and outside Axis2)
>> like Axiom and WSS4J that still need a place to live, not to mention the
>> other projects like Scout, JAX-RPC, and JUDDI. I'd suggest those stay
>> in WS for now, but perhaps get rid of the "commons" idea and upline
>> Axiom, Neethi, etc. to subprojects instead of "sub-subprojects". :)
>>
>> ----
>>
>> What do people think of that layout?
>>
>> If we want to make this happen, I can draft up the necessary board
>> resolutions.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --Glen
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Nadir Amra <am...@us.ibm.com>.
Glen,
Not sure what it means to be TLP, but when you say Axis1 gets retired,
what does that mean? I currently am working on Axis C++ and do not plan
on stopping and I hope to finally release a final version of 1.6 in the
near future, after which I plan on continuing some enhancements. So will
I still be able to do that?
Nadir Amra
Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com> wrote on 10/27/2008 10:02:14 PM:
> [image removed]
>
> From my POV, it's a bit of a tossup. On the one hand, there are
> clearly a lot of sub-projects under the WS umbrella, and it would make
> for a lot less complexity if we split some of them out. On the other,
> there is a fairly large cluster of the projects that really do need to
> maintain a pretty tight coupling, so having a single place they can all
> exchange information is kind of nice too.
>
> I think we can achieve both goals with something like this:
>
> * Axis2 - becomes a TLP for both Java and C versions, with
> Axis2-specific components underneath as subprojects. So Rampart,
> Sandesha, Savan, Kandula....
>
> * Axis1 basically gets retired, with questions still answerable on
> axis-dev/user.
>
> * There are a few common libraries (used both inside and outside Axis2)
> like Axiom and WSS4J that still need a place to live, not to mention the
> other projects like Scout, JAX-RPC, and JUDDI. I'd suggest those stay
> in WS for now, but perhaps get rid of the "commons" idea and upline
> Axiom, Neethi, etc. to subprojects instead of "sub-subprojects". :)
>
> ----
>
> What do people think of that layout?
>
> If we want to make this happen, I can draft up the necessary board
> resolutions.
>
> Thanks,
> --Glen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
I agree Jochen.
-- dims
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:34 AM, Jochen Wiedmann
<jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:02 AM, Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com> wrote:
>
>> * Axis2 - becomes a TLP for both Java and C versions, with
>> Axis2-specific components underneath as subprojects. So Rampart,
>> Sandesha, Savan, Kandula....
>
> I'd discourage a common TLP for both Java and C versions.
>
> I know this is the usual behaviour in a lot of other projects (Xerces,
> Log4j, to name a few). However, I think that the most important aspect
> of a TLP is a community. A community = one community, not two
> communities. IMO, the common denominator between Axis C and Axis Java
> is quite small and not worth bothering. Otherwise we'd simply have the
> next umbrella.
>
> Jochen
>
>
> --
> I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my
> telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out
> how to use my telephone.
>
> -- (Bjarne Stroustrup,
> http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#really-say-that
> My guess: Nokia E50)
>
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>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
I agree Jochen.
-- dims
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:34 AM, Jochen Wiedmann
<jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:02 AM, Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com> wrote:
>
>> * Axis2 - becomes a TLP for both Java and C versions, with
>> Axis2-specific components underneath as subprojects. So Rampart,
>> Sandesha, Savan, Kandula....
>
> I'd discourage a common TLP for both Java and C versions.
>
> I know this is the usual behaviour in a lot of other projects (Xerces,
> Log4j, to name a few). However, I think that the most important aspect
> of a TLP is a community. A community = one community, not two
> communities. IMO, the common denominator between Axis C and Axis Java
> is quite small and not worth bothering. Otherwise we'd simply have the
> next umbrella.
>
> Jochen
>
>
> --
> I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my
> telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out
> how to use my telephone.
>
> -- (Bjarne Stroustrup,
> http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#really-say-that
> My guess: Nokia E50)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Damitha Kumarage <da...@gmail.com>.
Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
> What's the problem? I can't see anyone from preventing an Axis2/C
> committer being a
> Axis2/Java committer as well, if he or she is interested in it? My
> expectation would be,
> though, that it is a minority only, who wants it.
>
>
> Jochen
>
>
It could be small community compared to Axis2/Java community. But still
it is an active community and ppl use Axis2/C for useful things. By the
foregoing discussions I don't see any significant gain to the Axis2/Java
community by making Axis2/C orphaned. So far there has been no problem
being them together in the same svn code base so why bother now for no
seemingly valid reason? Absolute -1 for making Axis2/C and Axis2/Java
separate. Actually being together it has always been a strength at least
for Axis2/C while it does not weaken Axis2/Java. Actually I have heard
some proposals of combined solutions using both Axis2/Java and Axis2/C.
thanks,
Damitha
--
__________________________________________________________________
Damitha Kumarage
http://people.apache.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
+1 Paul. I'm also completely -1 to separating C from the Java side.
Sanjiva.
Paul Fremantle wrote:
> Jochen
>
> Its not just about interop - its about a shared design and a shared community.
>
> 1) I believe that the Axis2/C team has worked very hard to share code,
> designs and work closely with the rest of the team. I'm not sure that
> the Java team has worked so closely, but I guess that is because they
> tended to build the code ahead of the C team. However, I think you
> need to take strong account of the views of the C team in this
> process.
>
> 2) There is a benefit to keeping these together. While we have - on
> the whole - had benefit of splitting Synapse out, it has also made
> some aspects a little trickier (e.g. the transport discussions). Now,
> Synapse has a different aim than Axis2, but I don't believe thats true
> for Axis2/C and Axis2/Java.
>
> 3) There are some interesting things we can do *together* with Axis2/C
> and Java. For example, Axis2/C is around 6 times faster at handling
> WS-Security than Axis2/Java. We could do a JNI-based high-performance
> WS-Security transport for Java using the C code. I don't want to make
> these kinds of things harder.
>
> 4) Axis2 has a unique position in having a Java AND C library and the
> same architecture. This is a serious advantage over other libraries.
> We need to strengthen not weaken this bond.
>
> Paul
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Jochen Wiedmann
> <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 9:21 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> -1. They share the same architecture. They do the same this, only the implementation is different.
>>> And they are supposed to work with each other, interop in other words, so they have lot in common.
>> Interoperability is not an argument. Axis is trying hard to be
>> interoperable with others as well. About
>> the architecture: Might be, but that doesn't mean, that it is a single
>> community in practice.
>>
>> To convince me, you should give me *more* examples like the following,
>> where work actually shared:
>>
>>
>>> It is a fact that, you can interop being disjoint projects. However, we even
>>> use the WSDL2Code tool to generate code. If Axis2/Java becomes a separate
>>> TLP and can an Axis2/C comittor do changed to that tool?
>> What's the problem? I can't see anyone from preventing an Axis2/C
>> committer being a
>> Axis2/Java committer as well, if he or she is interested in it? My
>> expectation would be,
>> though, that it is a minority only, who wants it.
>>
>>
>> Jochen
>>
>> --
>> I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my
>> telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out
>> how to use my telephone.
>>
>> -- (Bjarne Stroustrup,
>> http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#really-say-that
>> My guess: Nokia E50)
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
Jochen
Its not just about interop - its about a shared design and a shared community.
1) I believe that the Axis2/C team has worked very hard to share code,
designs and work closely with the rest of the team. I'm not sure that
the Java team has worked so closely, but I guess that is because they
tended to build the code ahead of the C team. However, I think you
need to take strong account of the views of the C team in this
process.
2) There is a benefit to keeping these together. While we have - on
the whole - had benefit of splitting Synapse out, it has also made
some aspects a little trickier (e.g. the transport discussions). Now,
Synapse has a different aim than Axis2, but I don't believe thats true
for Axis2/C and Axis2/Java.
3) There are some interesting things we can do *together* with Axis2/C
and Java. For example, Axis2/C is around 6 times faster at handling
WS-Security than Axis2/Java. We could do a JNI-based high-performance
WS-Security transport for Java using the C code. I don't want to make
these kinds of things harder.
4) Axis2 has a unique position in having a Java AND C library and the
same architecture. This is a serious advantage over other libraries.
We need to strengthen not weaken this bond.
Paul
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Jochen Wiedmann
<jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 9:21 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> -1. They share the same architecture. They do the same this, only the implementation is different.
>> And they are supposed to work with each other, interop in other words, so they have lot in common.
>
> Interoperability is not an argument. Axis is trying hard to be
> interoperable with others as well. About
> the architecture: Might be, but that doesn't mean, that it is a single
> community in practice.
>
> To convince me, you should give me *more* examples like the following,
> where work actually shared:
>
>
>> It is a fact that, you can interop being disjoint projects. However, we even
>> use the WSDL2Code tool to generate code. If Axis2/Java becomes a separate
>> TLP and can an Axis2/C comittor do changed to that tool?
>
> What's the problem? I can't see anyone from preventing an Axis2/C
> committer being a
> Axis2/Java committer as well, if he or she is interested in it? My
> expectation would be,
> though, that it is a minority only, who wants it.
>
>
> Jochen
>
> --
> I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my
> telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out
> how to use my telephone.
>
> -- (Bjarne Stroustrup,
> http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#really-say-that
> My guess: Nokia E50)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
Apache Synapse PMC Chair
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Manjula Peiris <ma...@wso2.com>.
On Fri, 2008-10-31 at 09:37 +0100, Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 9:21 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > -1. They share the same architecture. They do the same this, only the implementation is different.
> > And they are supposed to work with each other, interop in other words, so they have lot in common.
>
> Interoperability is not an argument. Axis is trying hard to be
> interoperable with others as well. About
> the architecture: Might be, but that doesn't mean, that it is a single
> community in practice.
>
> To convince me, you should give me *more* examples like the following,
> where work actually shared:
>
>
> > It is a fact that, you can interop being disjoint projects. However, we even
> > use the WSDL2Code tool to generate code. If Axis2/Java becomes a separate
> > TLP and can an Axis2/C comittor do changed to that tool?
>
> What's the problem? I can't see anyone from preventing an Axis2/C
> committer being a
> Axis2/Java committer as well, if he or she is interested in it? My
> expectation would be,
> though, that it is a minority only, who wants it.
You may not want it. But it is being deployed in various production
systems. Those people want it. And a common deployment scenario is using
Axis2/Java in server side and Axis2/C in client side. Actually we have
seen same people asking questions in both Axis2/Java and Axis2/C user
lists.
Again many people are using WSDL2C tool. In order to do update this tool
a developer should have a good understanding on Axis2/C and Axis2/Java.
If we make Axis2 a TLP and keep Axis2/C as it is then enhancement of
this tool may stop.
The other thing is Axis2/C and Axis2/Java are not competitors.
Axis2/Java helped to build Axis2/C and also it's community. So making
Axis2/Java a TLP will affect Axis2/C user community.
-Manjula.
>
>
> Jochen
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Afkham Azeez <af...@gmail.com>.
I'd have to agree with the view that Axis2/Java & Axis2/C have quite a lot
in common. The sames concepts & architecture are used by both these
projects. In effect, a person who understands the concepts & architecture of
one, can easily understand the other. So, IMHO, we should not separate these
projects. Axis2/C is a very useful project since it makes it possible to
make use of it to build Web service frameworks in other languages like PHP,
Ruby, Perl, C++ etc. So it has a wide are of usage, and caters to a wider
audience. Hence it is not correct to even imply that it is less important.
I'm sure that the Axis2/C developers & users would have taken great offense
in such statements.
I've been observing this thread for sometime now, and I feel that making
Axis2 a TLP is going to give rise to more problems than finding solutions to
the problems at hand. What we should do is to come up with a plan to address
the issues & concerns, rather than saying 'making Axis2 a TLP will solve all
the problems'.
Thanks
Azeez
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Samisa Abeysinghe <
samisa.abeysinghe@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 9:21 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> -1. They share the same architecture. They do the same this, only the
>>> implementation is different.
>>> And they are supposed to work with each other, interop in other words, so
>>> they have lot in common.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Interoperability is not an argument. Axis is trying hard to be
>> interoperable with others as well.
>>
> What is the last time you tested interop with Axis2/C???
>
> About
>> the architecture: Might be, but that doesn't mean, that it is a single
>> community in practice.
>>
>>
>
> I am part of Axis2/Java and Axis2/C and you are now trying to leave me out
> of that.
>
>> To convince me, you should give me *more* examples like the following,
>> where work actually shared:
>>
>>
>
> Why should I convince you? Have you made the decision already. Rather I
> guess you should convince me, given I am the one who started Axis2/C and you
> are now trying to undo that.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> It is a fact that, you can interop being disjoint projects. However, we
>>> even
>>> use the WSDL2Code tool to generate code. If Axis2/Java becomes a separate
>>> TLP and can an Axis2/C comittor do changed to that tool?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> What's the problem? I can't see anyone from preventing an Axis2/C
>> committer being a
>> Axis2/Java committer as well, if he or she is interested in it? My
>> expectation would be,
>> though, that it is a minority only, who wants it.
>>
>>
>
> We are not a minority, we are part of WS. There are not majority or
> minority in WS PMC. PMCs are PMCs. I am one and I have equal rights.
>
> My question was, I am already a WS commiter, not an Axis2/Java or Axis2/C
> comitter. What happens to me when Axis2 is made a TLP dropping C?
>
> Samisa...
>
>>
>> Jochen
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Samisa Abeysinghe
>
> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/ <http://people.apache.org/%7Esamisa/>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
--
Thanks
Afkham Azeez
Blog: http://afkham.org
Developer Portal: http://www.wso2.org
WSAS Blog: http://wso2wsas.blogspot.com
Company: http://wso2.com
GPG Fingerprint: 643F C2AF EB78 F886 40C9 B2A2 4AE2 C887 665E 0760
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Samisa Abeysinghe <sa...@gmail.com>.
Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 9:21 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
> <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> -1. They share the same architecture. They do the same this, only the implementation is different.
>> And they are supposed to work with each other, interop in other words, so they have lot in common.
>>
>
> Interoperability is not an argument. Axis is trying hard to be
> interoperable with others as well.
What is the last time you tested interop with Axis2/C???
> About
> the architecture: Might be, but that doesn't mean, that it is a single
> community in practice.
>
I am part of Axis2/Java and Axis2/C and you are now trying to leave me
out of that.
> To convince me, you should give me *more* examples like the following,
> where work actually shared:
>
Why should I convince you? Have you made the decision already. Rather I
guess you should convince me, given I am the one who started Axis2/C and
you are now trying to undo that.
>
>
>> It is a fact that, you can interop being disjoint projects. However, we even
>> use the WSDL2Code tool to generate code. If Axis2/Java becomes a separate
>> TLP and can an Axis2/C comittor do changed to that tool?
>>
>
> What's the problem? I can't see anyone from preventing an Axis2/C
> committer being a
> Axis2/Java committer as well, if he or she is interested in it? My
> expectation would be,
> though, that it is a minority only, who wants it.
>
We are not a minority, we are part of WS. There are not majority or
minority in WS PMC. PMCs are PMCs. I am one and I have equal rights.
My question was, I am already a WS commiter, not an Axis2/Java or
Axis2/C comitter. What happens to me when Axis2 is made a TLP dropping C?
Samisa...
>
> Jochen
>
>
--
Samisa Abeysinghe
http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 9:21 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
<sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> -1. They share the same architecture. They do the same this, only the implementation is different.
> And they are supposed to work with each other, interop in other words, so they have lot in common.
Interoperability is not an argument. Axis is trying hard to be
interoperable with others as well. About
the architecture: Might be, but that doesn't mean, that it is a single
community in practice.
To convince me, you should give me *more* examples like the following,
where work actually shared:
> It is a fact that, you can interop being disjoint projects. However, we even
> use the WSDL2Code tool to generate code. If Axis2/Java becomes a separate
> TLP and can an Axis2/C comittor do changed to that tool?
What's the problem? I can't see anyone from preventing an Axis2/C
committer being a
Axis2/Java committer as well, if he or she is interested in it? My
expectation would be,
though, that it is a minority only, who wants it.
Jochen
--
I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my
telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out
how to use my telephone.
-- (Bjarne Stroustrup,
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#really-say-that
My guess: Nokia E50)
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Samisa Abeysinghe <sa...@gmail.com>.
Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:02 AM, Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com> wrote:
>
>
>> * Axis2 - becomes a TLP for both Java and C versions, with
>> Axis2-specific components underneath as subprojects. So Rampart,
>> Sandesha, Savan, Kandula....
>>
>
> I'd discourage a common TLP for both Java and C versions.
>
> I know this is the usual behaviour in a lot of other projects (Xerces,
> Log4j, to name a few). However, I think that the most important aspect
> of a TLP is a community. A community = one community, not two
> communities. IMO, the common denominator between Axis C and Axis Java
> is quite small and not worth bothering. Otherwise we'd simply have the
> next umbrella.
>
-1. They share the same architecture. They do the same this, only the
implementation is different. And they are supposed to work with each
other, interop in other words, so they have lot in common.
It is a fact that, you can interop being disjoint projects. However, we
even use the WSDL2Code tool to generate code. If Axis2/Java becomes a
separate TLP and can an Axis2/C comittor do changed to that tool?
Samisa...
> Jochen
>
>
>
--
Samisa Abeysinghe
http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Milinda Pathirage <mi...@gmail.com>.
As a Axis2/C and WSDL2C(Axis2/Java) contributor, I am -1 on discouraging TLP
for both Java and C versions. Why you suggest to separate them if they share
the same architecture and some tools. Say in case Axis2/C is not in common
TLP, will Axis2/C become a separate TLP? I think common TLP is the best
thing in case we make Axis2 a TLP.
Thanks,
Milinda
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Jochen Wiedmann
<jo...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:02 AM, Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com>
> wrote:
>
> > * Axis2 - becomes a TLP for both Java and C versions, with
> > Axis2-specific components underneath as subprojects. So Rampart,
> > Sandesha, Savan, Kandula....
>
> I'd discourage a common TLP for both Java and C versions.
>
> I know this is the usual behaviour in a lot of other projects (Xerces,
> Log4j, to name a few). However, I think that the most important aspect
> of a TLP is a community. A community = one community, not two
> communities. IMO, the common denominator between Axis C and Axis Java
> is quite small and not worth bothering. Otherwise we'd simply have the
> next umbrella.
>
> Jochen
>
>
> --
> I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my
> telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out
> how to use my telephone.
>
> -- (Bjarne Stroustrup,
> http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#really-say-that<http://www.research.att.com/%7Ebs/bs_faq.html#really-say-that>
> My guess: Nokia E50)
>
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>
>
--
http://mpathirage.com
http://wso2.org "Oxygen for Web Service Developers"
http://wsaxc.blogspot.com "Web Services With Axis2/C"
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Samisa Abeysinghe <sa...@gmail.com>.
Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:02 AM, Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com> wrote:
>
>
>> * Axis2 - becomes a TLP for both Java and C versions, with
>> Axis2-specific components underneath as subprojects. So Rampart,
>> Sandesha, Savan, Kandula....
>>
>
> I'd discourage a common TLP for both Java and C versions.
>
> I know this is the usual behaviour in a lot of other projects (Xerces,
> Log4j, to name a few). However, I think that the most important aspect
> of a TLP is a community. A community = one community, not two
> communities. IMO, the common denominator between Axis C and Axis Java
> is quite small and not worth bothering. Otherwise we'd simply have the
> next umbrella.
>
-1. They share the same architecture. They do the same this, only the
implementation is different. And they are supposed to work with each
other, interop in other words, so they have lot in common.
It is a fact that, you can interop being disjoint projects. However, we
even use the WSDL2Code tool to generate code. If Axis2/Java becomes a
separate TLP and can an Axis2/C comittor do changed to that tool?
Samisa...
> Jochen
>
>
>
--
Samisa Abeysinghe
http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:02 AM, Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com> wrote:
> * Axis2 - becomes a TLP for both Java and C versions, with
> Axis2-specific components underneath as subprojects. So Rampart,
> Sandesha, Savan, Kandula....
I'd discourage a common TLP for both Java and C versions.
I know this is the usual behaviour in a lot of other projects (Xerces,
Log4j, to name a few). However, I think that the most important aspect
of a TLP is a community. A community = one community, not two
communities. IMO, the common denominator between Axis C and Axis Java
is quite small and not worth bothering. Otherwise we'd simply have the
next umbrella.
Jochen
--
I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my
telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out
how to use my telephone.
-- (Bjarne Stroustrup,
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#really-say-that
My guess: Nokia E50)
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:02 AM, Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com> wrote:
> * Axis2 - becomes a TLP for both Java and C versions, with
> Axis2-specific components underneath as subprojects. So Rampart,
> Sandesha, Savan, Kandula....
I'd discourage a common TLP for both Java and C versions.
I know this is the usual behaviour in a lot of other projects (Xerces,
Log4j, to name a few). However, I think that the most important aspect
of a TLP is a community. A community = one community, not two
communities. IMO, the common denominator between Axis C and Axis Java
is quite small and not worth bothering. Otherwise we'd simply have the
next umbrella.
Jochen
--
I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my
telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out
how to use my telephone.
-- (Bjarne Stroustrup,
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#really-say-that
My guess: Nokia E50)
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com>.
Hey dims, all:
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>
> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
I'm +1 to the idea. Here's what I sent to the PMC after this idea came
up as a result of our last board report:
----
From my POV, it's a bit of a tossup. On the one hand, there are
clearly a lot of sub-projects under the WS umbrella, and it would make
for a lot less complexity if we split some of them out. On the other,
there is a fairly large cluster of the projects that really do need to
maintain a pretty tight coupling, so having a single place they can all
exchange information is kind of nice too.
I think we can achieve both goals with something like this:
* Axis2 - becomes a TLP for both Java and C versions, with
Axis2-specific components underneath as subprojects. So Rampart,
Sandesha, Savan, Kandula....
* Axis1 basically gets retired, with questions still answerable on
axis-dev/user.
* There are a few common libraries (used both inside and outside Axis2)
like Axiom and WSS4J that still need a place to live, not to mention the
other projects like Scout, JAX-RPC, and JUDDI. I'd suggest those stay
in WS for now, but perhaps get rid of the "commons" idea and upline
Axiom, Neethi, etc. to subprojects instead of "sub-subprojects". :)
----
What do people think of that layout?
If we want to make this happen, I can draft up the necessary board
resolutions.
Thanks,
--Glen
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com>.
Hey dims, all:
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>
> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
I'm +1 to the idea. Here's what I sent to the PMC after this idea came
up as a result of our last board report:
----
From my POV, it's a bit of a tossup. On the one hand, there are
clearly a lot of sub-projects under the WS umbrella, and it would make
for a lot less complexity if we split some of them out. On the other,
there is a fairly large cluster of the projects that really do need to
maintain a pretty tight coupling, so having a single place they can all
exchange information is kind of nice too.
I think we can achieve both goals with something like this:
* Axis2 - becomes a TLP for both Java and C versions, with
Axis2-specific components underneath as subprojects. So Rampart,
Sandesha, Savan, Kandula....
* Axis1 basically gets retired, with questions still answerable on
axis-dev/user.
* There are a few common libraries (used both inside and outside Axis2)
like Axiom and WSS4J that still need a place to live, not to mention the
other projects like Scout, JAX-RPC, and JUDDI. I'd suggest those stay
in WS for now, but perhaps get rid of the "commons" idea and upline
Axiom, Neethi, etc. to subprojects instead of "sub-subprojects". :)
----
What do people think of that layout?
If we want to make this happen, I can draft up the necessary board
resolutions.
Thanks,
--Glen
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of
enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream
components (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the
"web services" project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by
that. Calling the whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2.
I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are
retired or "finished". These include (from what I know) scout, wsif,
axis1, jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows,
there are parts of the "axis1 family" still alive and kicking.
There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for
example juddi & xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce
the size of ws.
So I'm -1.
However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is
there something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always
against splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason
for and against by both Glen and Dims too.
Sanjiva.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Folks,
>
> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>
> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Of course Deepal but there are bunch of folks from IBM who were very
active and who are also deeply involved with Axis2.
Sanjiva.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I'd really like to hear from some of the other IBM folks working on
>> axis2/java too - Nick, Bill, etc. - what do you think? You guys have
>> been very quiet! Are you guys off of this stuff now?
> Well then it should not only be IBM , there are other folks from other
> companies and individual working on Axis2, And other thing is Bill was
> so quiet for a long time :-) .
>
> Deepal
>> Sanjiva.
>>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>>
>>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
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>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Of course Deepal but there are bunch of folks from IBM who were very
active and who are also deeply involved with Axis2.
Sanjiva.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I'd really like to hear from some of the other IBM folks working on
>> axis2/java too - Nick, Bill, etc. - what do you think? You guys have
>> been very quiet! Are you guys off of this stuff now?
> Well then it should not only be IBM , there are other folks from other
> companies and individual working on Axis2, And other thing is Bill was
> so quiet for a long time :-) .
>
> Deepal
>> Sanjiva.
>>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>>
>>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
> I'd really like to hear from some of the other IBM folks working on
> axis2/java too - Nick, Bill, etc. - what do you think? You guys have
> been very quiet! Are you guys off of this stuff now?
Well then it should not only be IBM , there are other folks from other
companies and individual working on Axis2, And other thing is Bill was
so quiet for a long time :-) .
Deepal
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>
>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Jeez, there's a conspiracy behind every statement eh?
As I just replied to Deepal, I brought it up because there were a bunch of
IBM folks who used to work on Axis2 who were active who also are
stakeholders. However, the invitation was not limited to IBM folks - my
apologies if such implication was apparent.
So, what about other folks - this conversation has been limited to a few
people so far and it'll be great to get more voices heard.
Sanjiva.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Hmm...why are u bringing up someone's employer?
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>> I'd really like to hear from some of the other IBM folks working on
>> axis2/java too - Nick, Bill, etc. - what do you think? You guys have been
>> very quiet! Are you guys off of this stuff now?
>>
>> Sanjiva.
>>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>>
>>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>
>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Jeez, there's a conspiracy behind every statement eh?
As I just replied to Deepal, I brought it up because there were a bunch of
IBM folks who used to work on Axis2 who were active who also are
stakeholders. However, the invitation was not limited to IBM folks - my
apologies if such implication was apparent.
So, what about other folks - this conversation has been limited to a few
people so far and it'll be great to get more voices heard.
Sanjiva.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Hmm...why are u bringing up someone's employer?
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
> <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>> I'd really like to hear from some of the other IBM folks working on
>> axis2/java too - Nick, Bill, etc. - what do you think? You guys have been
>> very quiet! Are you guys off of this stuff now?
>>
>> Sanjiva.
>>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>>
>>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>
>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Hmm...why are u bringing up someone's employer?
thanks,
dims
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> I'd really like to hear from some of the other IBM folks working on
> axis2/java too - Nick, Bill, etc. - what do you think? You guys have been
> very quiet! Are you guys off of this stuff now?
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>
>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
> I'd really like to hear from some of the other IBM folks working on
> axis2/java too - Nick, Bill, etc. - what do you think? You guys have
> been very quiet! Are you guys off of this stuff now?
Well then it should not only be IBM , there are other folks from other
companies and individual working on Axis2, And other thing is Bill was
so quiet for a long time :-) .
Deepal
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>
>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Hmm...why are u bringing up someone's employer?
thanks,
dims
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> I'd really like to hear from some of the other IBM folks working on
> axis2/java too - Nick, Bill, etc. - what do you think? You guys have been
> very quiet! Are you guys off of this stuff now?
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>>
>> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
>> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
I'd really like to hear from some of the other IBM folks working on
axis2/java too - Nick, Bill, etc. - what do you think? You guys have been
very quiet! Are you guys off of this stuff now?
Sanjiva.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Folks,
>
> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>
> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
I'd really like to hear from some of the other IBM folks working on
axis2/java too - Nick, Bill, etc. - what do you think? You guys have been
very quiet! Are you guys off of this stuff now?
Sanjiva.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Folks,
>
> There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here....
>
> So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate
> TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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