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Posted to dev@cayenne.apache.org by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> on 2011/10/08 17:36:33 UTC
Deleting doc wiki spaces
Since the Docbook experiment is a success, there'll be no more plans to write 3.1 docs on Confluence. All other versions of the docs are more or less frozen. We'll still keep SVN version of the HTML docs (in 3.1 - until the docbook is finished).
This means we can delete all CAYDOC spaces (CAYDOC, CAYDOC12, CAYDOC20, CAYDOC30). Among other things this will improve our Google ranking as we can delete phantom autoexport stuff at https://cwiki.apache.org/.
Any objections to the plan? If there's none, I'll do it next Tuesday morning.
Andrus
Re: Deleting doc wiki spaces - DONE
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
I exported all 4 spaces to XML (will probably put them on the objectstyle server for now), so we can restore the spaces with attachments and everything if needed. Then went ahead and deleted the spaces.
Ari, can you please ask the infra (or do it yourself if you have infra karma) to remove the following static autoexport folders:
https://cwiki.apache.org/CAYDOC/
https://cwiki.apache.org/CAYDOC12/
https://cwiki.apache.org/CAYDOC20/
https://cwiki.apache.org/CAYDOC30/
Thanks,
Andrus
Re: Deleting doc wiki spaces - LAST CHANCE TO STOP IT
Posted by Michael Gentry <mg...@masslight.net>.
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 2:41 AM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
> Let me try to formulate my argument as bullet points. I think there's some misunderstanding what will happen...
>
> 1. We are NOT deleting any HTML docs - old or new (Mike's concern). We are deleting the wiki backend that manages them that nobody uses anyways (especially for old docs).
+1 then.
> 2. We have a Confluence migration coming. Why not finish 80% of it now and get it out of the way. It will happen in 6 (or something) months anyways.
+0.
> 3. I want to discourage (by making it impossible) using the wiki for further document work. Minor fixes to old docs can be done in HTML (haven't seen anyone doing them for ages). New docs must be done via docbook.
+0 because as soon as it is gone, someone will want it changed.
> 4. Finally we have very limited resources maintaining everything Cayenne related. And a chance to get rid of huge blob of "stuff" just makes me feel good :-)
+1 to massive carnage. :-)
mrg
Re: Deleting doc wiki spaces - LAST CHANCE TO STOP IT
Posted by Aristedes Maniatis <ar...@maniatis.org>.
I don't really see the point of deleting something that isn't causing
any harm by sitting there 'just in case'. But (4) I understand... :-)
If it makes you feel good, then go for it. Remember to keep a backup of
the html somewhere since we'll have no way to regenerate them if
something goes wrong or
some automated script 'cleans up' our website.
Ari
On Tue Oct 11 17:41:54 2011, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
> Let me try to formulate my argument as bullet points. I think there's some misunderstanding what will happen...
>
> 1. We are NOT deleting any HTML docs - old or new (Mike's concern). We are deleting the wiki backend that manages them that nobody uses anyways (especially for old docs).
>
> 2. We have a Confluence migration coming. Why not finish 80% of it now and get it out of the way. It will happen in 6 (or something) months anyways.
>
> 3. I want to discourage (by making it impossible) using the wiki for further document work. Minor fixes to old docs can be done in HTML (haven't seen anyone doing them for ages). New docs must be done via docbook.
>
> 4. Finally we have very limited resources maintaining everything Cayenne related. And a chance to get rid of huge blob of "stuff" just makes me feel good :-)
>
> Andrus
>
>
> On Oct 11, 2011, at 5:04 AM, Aristedes Maniatis wrote:
>
>> Yes, I agree. Why are we deleting the spaces? Say we need to fix a problem in the old docs in the future... nice to be able to do that in Confluence. I don't see the benefit in removing this resource. Why not let it live for as long as Confluence remains live at Apache, or until we break the whole autoexport thing with a move to Apache CMS in the future.
>>
>> Ari
>>
>>
>> On 11/10/11 11:40 AM, Mike Kienenberger wrote:
>>> Yes, please don't delete any old cayenne documentation if those
>>> documents cannot be found elsewhere.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 6:56 PM, Michael Gentry<mg...@masslight.net> wrote:
>>>> Will this get rid of the Cayenne 2.0 docs? I'm pretty sure some are
>>>> still using that (like Mike K).
>>>>
>>>> mrg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Andrus Adamchik<an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 9, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (1) continues to tick another as is, until I have time to spend on learning Apache CMS, navigating a bunch of obscure Perl, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for old CAYDOC, I don't see why we'd want to delete old documentation. That is still useful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have 4 versions of the documentation with the wiki process - (a) dynamic on Wiki, (b) autoexported on wiki (cwiki.apache.org), (c) cloned from (b) to our site, (d) - specially formatted version of (a) in SVN. My suggestion is to remove (a) and (b) as we don't need them, but keep the (c) and (d).
>>>>>
>>>>> So a last chance to stop the deletion of these spaces... Planning to do it tomorrow.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> -------------------------->
>> Aristedes Maniatis
>> GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
>>
>
--
-------------------------->
Aristedes Maniatis
GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
Re: Deleting doc wiki spaces - LAST CHANCE TO STOP IT
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
Let me try to formulate my argument as bullet points. I think there's some misunderstanding what will happen...
1. We are NOT deleting any HTML docs - old or new (Mike's concern). We are deleting the wiki backend that manages them that nobody uses anyways (especially for old docs).
2. We have a Confluence migration coming. Why not finish 80% of it now and get it out of the way. It will happen in 6 (or something) months anyways.
3. I want to discourage (by making it impossible) using the wiki for further document work. Minor fixes to old docs can be done in HTML (haven't seen anyone doing them for ages). New docs must be done via docbook.
4. Finally we have very limited resources maintaining everything Cayenne related. And a chance to get rid of huge blob of "stuff" just makes me feel good :-)
Andrus
On Oct 11, 2011, at 5:04 AM, Aristedes Maniatis wrote:
> Yes, I agree. Why are we deleting the spaces? Say we need to fix a problem in the old docs in the future... nice to be able to do that in Confluence. I don't see the benefit in removing this resource. Why not let it live for as long as Confluence remains live at Apache, or until we break the whole autoexport thing with a move to Apache CMS in the future.
>
> Ari
>
>
> On 11/10/11 11:40 AM, Mike Kienenberger wrote:
>> Yes, please don't delete any old cayenne documentation if those
>> documents cannot be found elsewhere.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 6:56 PM, Michael Gentry<mg...@masslight.net> wrote:
>>> Will this get rid of the Cayenne 2.0 docs? I'm pretty sure some are
>>> still using that (like Mike K).
>>>
>>> mrg
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Andrus Adamchik<an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 9, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (1) continues to tick another as is, until I have time to spend on learning Apache CMS, navigating a bunch of obscure Perl, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for old CAYDOC, I don't see why we'd want to delete old documentation. That is still useful.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have 4 versions of the documentation with the wiki process - (a) dynamic on Wiki, (b) autoexported on wiki (cwiki.apache.org), (c) cloned from (b) to our site, (d) - specially formatted version of (a) in SVN. My suggestion is to remove (a) and (b) as we don't need them, but keep the (c) and (d).
>>>>
>>>> So a last chance to stop the deletion of these spaces... Planning to do it tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
> --
> -------------------------->
> Aristedes Maniatis
> GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
>
Re: Deleting doc wiki spaces - LAST CHANCE TO STOP IT
Posted by Aristedes Maniatis <ar...@maniatis.org>.
Yes, I agree. Why are we deleting the spaces? Say we need to fix a problem in the old docs in the future... nice to be able to do that in Confluence. I don't see the benefit in removing this resource. Why not let it live for as long as Confluence remains live at Apache, or until we break the whole autoexport thing with a move to Apache CMS in the future.
Ari
On 11/10/11 11:40 AM, Mike Kienenberger wrote:
> Yes, please don't delete any old cayenne documentation if those
> documents cannot be found elsewhere.
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 6:56 PM, Michael Gentry<mg...@masslight.net> wrote:
>> Will this get rid of the Cayenne 2.0 docs? I'm pretty sure some are
>> still using that (like Mike K).
>>
>> mrg
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Andrus Adamchik<an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Oct 9, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (1) continues to tick another as is, until I have time to spend on learning Apache CMS, navigating a bunch of obscure Perl, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As for old CAYDOC, I don't see why we'd want to delete old documentation. That is still useful.
>>>>
>>>> We have 4 versions of the documentation with the wiki process - (a) dynamic on Wiki, (b) autoexported on wiki (cwiki.apache.org), (c) cloned from (b) to our site, (d) - specially formatted version of (a) in SVN. My suggestion is to remove (a) and (b) as we don't need them, but keep the (c) and (d).
>>>
>>> So a last chance to stop the deletion of these spaces... Planning to do it tomorrow.
>>>
>>>
>>
--
-------------------------->
Aristedes Maniatis
GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
Re: Deleting doc wiki spaces - LAST CHANCE TO STOP IT
Posted by Mike Kienenberger <mk...@gmail.com>.
Yes, please don't delete any old cayenne documentation if those
documents cannot be found elsewhere.
On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 6:56 PM, Michael Gentry <mg...@masslight.net> wrote:
> Will this get rid of the Cayenne 2.0 docs? I'm pretty sure some are
> still using that (like Mike K).
>
> mrg
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Oct 9, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> (1) continues to tick another as is, until I have time to spend on learning Apache CMS, navigating a bunch of obscure Perl, etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As for old CAYDOC, I don't see why we'd want to delete old documentation. That is still useful.
>>>
>>> We have 4 versions of the documentation with the wiki process - (a) dynamic on Wiki, (b) autoexported on wiki (cwiki.apache.org), (c) cloned from (b) to our site, (d) - specially formatted version of (a) in SVN. My suggestion is to remove (a) and (b) as we don't need them, but keep the (c) and (d).
>>
>> So a last chance to stop the deletion of these spaces... Planning to do it tomorrow.
>>
>>
>
Re: Deleting doc wiki spaces - LAST CHANCE TO STOP IT
Posted by Michael Gentry <mg...@masslight.net>.
Will this get rid of the Cayenne 2.0 docs? I'm pretty sure some are
still using that (like Mike K).
mrg
On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
>
> On Oct 9, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>
>>>
>>> (1) continues to tick another as is, until I have time to spend on learning Apache CMS, navigating a bunch of obscure Perl, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> As for old CAYDOC, I don't see why we'd want to delete old documentation. That is still useful.
>>
>> We have 4 versions of the documentation with the wiki process - (a) dynamic on Wiki, (b) autoexported on wiki (cwiki.apache.org), (c) cloned from (b) to our site, (d) - specially formatted version of (a) in SVN. My suggestion is to remove (a) and (b) as we don't need them, but keep the (c) and (d).
>
> So a last chance to stop the deletion of these spaces... Planning to do it tomorrow.
>
>
Re: Deleting doc wiki spaces - LAST CHANCE TO STOP IT
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
On Oct 9, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>>
>> (1) continues to tick another as is, until I have time to spend on learning Apache CMS, navigating a bunch of obscure Perl, etc.
>>
>>
>> As for old CAYDOC, I don't see why we'd want to delete old documentation. That is still useful.
>
> We have 4 versions of the documentation with the wiki process - (a) dynamic on Wiki, (b) autoexported on wiki (cwiki.apache.org), (c) cloned from (b) to our site, (d) - specially formatted version of (a) in SVN. My suggestion is to remove (a) and (b) as we don't need them, but keep the (c) and (d).
So a last chance to stop the deletion of these spaces... Planning to do it tomorrow.
Re: Deleting doc wiki spaces
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
On Oct 9, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>>
>> (3) used to be built out of my p.a.o account, but recent changes there has meant that is no longer building
>
> Is it our changes in the Maven build? Or something that infra has done?
Never mind this one - saw your message to the infra.
Andrus
Re: Deleting doc wiki spaces
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
On Oct 9, 2011, at 4:58 AM, Aristedes Maniatis wrote:
> . Confluence website (maybe one day Apache CMS, but that's another issue)
> 2. docbook docs
> 3. javadocs
>
> (3) used to be built out of my p.a.o account, but recent changes there has meant that is no longer building
Is it our changes in the Maven build? Or something that infra has done?
> (2) needs some automated mechanism to build and publish. Should that be jenkins (not the most reliable!) and then a p.a.o script to publish to www?
> (1) continues to tick another as is, until I have time to spend on learning Apache CMS, navigating a bunch of obscure Perl, etc.
>
>
> As for old CAYDOC, I don't see why we'd want to delete old documentation. That is still useful.
We have 4 versions of the documentation with the wiki process - (a) dynamic on Wiki, (b) autoexported on wiki (cwiki.apache.org), (c) cloned from (b) to our site, (d) - specially formatted version of (a) in SVN. My suggestion is to remove (a) and (b) as we don't need them, but keep the (c) and (d).
> Google rankings are something else again and easily solved with a robots.txt in our root. I just did that now, wait 60 minutes for it to publish.
http://cayenne.apache.org/robots.txt - this is cool. We do need that (although maybe allow 30 for now). But I was thinking more about this one: https://cwiki.apache.org/robots.txt (if we delete the autoexported garbage, we won't care about it anymore though).
> As soon as the new docbook contains all the documentation from the current Confluence docs, then sure, let's replace the trunk documentation with docbook. We'll figure out if infra want us to publish using Jenkins, p.a.o or something else. I'll go ask there now.
My point is that we no longer need (a) and (b) above, but can keep (d) as long as we are doing the transition for 3.1 and indefinitely for 3.0 and earlier.
Does it make sense?
Andrus
Re: Deleting doc wiki spaces
Posted by Aristedes Maniatis <ar...@maniatis.org>.
I am happy to put in some time, but I'd like to understand the process better first. We have three things we publish:
1. Confluence website (maybe one day Apache CMS, but that's another issue)
2. docbook docs
3. javadocs
(3) used to be built out of my p.a.o account, but recent changes there has meant that is no longer building
(2) needs some automated mechanism to build and publish. Should that be jenkins (not the most reliable!) and then a p.a.o script to publish to www?
(1) continues to tick another as is, until I have time to spend on learning Apache CMS, navigating a bunch of obscure Perl, etc.
As for old CAYDOC, I don't see why we'd want to delete old documentation. That is still useful. Google rankings are something else again and easily solved with a robots.txt in our root. I just did that now, wait 60 minutes for it to publish.
As soon as the new docbook contains all the documentation from the current Confluence docs, then sure, let's replace the trunk documentation with docbook. We'll figure out if infra want us to publish using Jenkins, p.a.o or something else. I'll go ask there now.
Cheers
Ari
On 9/10/11 2:38 AM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
> Of course also would be cool if we can start publishing HTML from 3.1 Docbook to the site instead, but that would require some styling work.
>
> Andrus
>
> On Oct 8, 2011, at 6:36 PM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>
>> Since the Docbook experiment is a success, there'll be no more plans to write 3.1 docs on Confluence. All other versions of the docs are more or less frozen. We'll still keep SVN version of the HTML docs (in 3.1 - until the docbook is finished).
>>
>> This means we can delete all CAYDOC spaces (CAYDOC, CAYDOC12, CAYDOC20, CAYDOC30). Among other things this will improve our Google ranking as we can delete phantom autoexport stuff at https://cwiki.apache.org/.
>>
>> Any objections to the plan? If there's none, I'll do it next Tuesday morning.
>>
>> Andrus
>
--
-------------------------->
Aristedes Maniatis
GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
Re: Deleting doc wiki spaces
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
Of course also would be cool if we can start publishing HTML from 3.1 Docbook to the site instead, but that would require some styling work.
Andrus
On Oct 8, 2011, at 6:36 PM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
> Since the Docbook experiment is a success, there'll be no more plans to write 3.1 docs on Confluence. All other versions of the docs are more or less frozen. We'll still keep SVN version of the HTML docs (in 3.1 - until the docbook is finished).
>
> This means we can delete all CAYDOC spaces (CAYDOC, CAYDOC12, CAYDOC20, CAYDOC30). Among other things this will improve our Google ranking as we can delete phantom autoexport stuff at https://cwiki.apache.org/.
>
> Any objections to the plan? If there's none, I'll do it next Tuesday morning.
>
> Andrus