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Posted to dev@bigtop.apache.org by Jos Backus <jo...@catnook.com> on 2012/03/15 20:46:01 UTC
RedHat moving to OpenJDK
Hi,
This post,
https://www.zarb.org/pipermail/jpackage-discuss/2011-December/014781.html,
and this post,
https://www.zarb.org/pipermail/jpackage-discuss/2011-December/014774.html,
by David Walluck, one of the JPackage maintainers, suggests that
RedHat is moving to OpenJDK:
"I used to rewrite and try to submit notes here for JDK 1.6
integration with RHEL 5, but thank you goddess, Red Hat and Oracle
have worked out a decent deal to make OpenJDK the new standard and
integrate suport much more effectively."
"Finally, Red Hat seems to have largely switched to OpenJDK. This is
what JPackage is using for builds as well. There has been no need to
build a nosrc.rpm for a while now, assuming you're willing to give up
the Oracle JDK for the OpenJDK in your base OS."
How do people here feel about this move?
Jos
--
Jos Backus
jos at catnook.com
Re: RedHat moving to OpenJDK
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
Well, Oracle has announced a few months ago that there only will be one JDK
platform, based on OpenJDK. So, technically speaking RH has no other choice,
because IcedTea sucks big time ;/
Cos
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 12:46PM, Jos Backus wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This post,
> https://www.zarb.org/pipermail/jpackage-discuss/2011-December/014781.html,
> and this post,
> https://www.zarb.org/pipermail/jpackage-discuss/2011-December/014774.html,
> by David Walluck, one of the JPackage maintainers, suggests that
> RedHat is moving to OpenJDK:
>
> "I used to rewrite and try to submit notes here for JDK 1.6
> integration with RHEL 5, but thank you goddess, Red Hat and Oracle
> have worked out a decent deal to make OpenJDK the new standard and
> integrate suport much more effectively."
>
> "Finally, Red Hat seems to have largely switched to OpenJDK. This is
> what JPackage is using for builds as well. There has been no need to
> build a nosrc.rpm for a while now, assuming you're willing to give up
> the Oracle JDK for the OpenJDK in your base OS."
>
> How do people here feel about this move?
>
> Jos
> --
> Jos Backus
> jos at catnook.com
Re: RedHat moving to OpenJDK
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Tom White <to...@cloudera.com> wrote:
>> That said I had reports about
>> silly incompatibilities (like what a null would produce when turned into
>> a string or something) that trip up Hadoop big time and nobody wants
>> to spend time debugging it.
>
> Can you point to any bug reports please?
Not really. Just anecdotal evidence from, if I'm not mistaken, Todd and some
other folks.
Thanks,
Roman.
Re: RedHat moving to OpenJDK
Posted by Tom White <to...@cloudera.com>.
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 5:22 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Jos Backus <jo...@catnook.com> wrote:
>> "Finally, Red Hat seems to have largely switched to OpenJDK. This is
>> what JPackage is using for builds as well.
>
> Speaking of which -- what's your read on JPackage. It feels dead to me
> (and that's why Bigtop started packaging outside of immediate Bigdata
> scope) but I could be wrong.
>
>> There has been no need to
>> build a nosrc.rpm for a while now, assuming you're willing to give up
>> the Oracle JDK for the OpenJDK in your base OS."
>>
>> How do people here feel about this move?
>
> I think we have to bite the bullet and start supporting OpenJDK. At least
> as an alternative JDK to Oracle's one.
Various folks have been trying out Hadoop on OpenJDK with Whirr (see
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WHIRR-518), and no major
problems have been found yet. Granted, it hasn't had extensive
testing, but it's a start. Doing some testing in Bigtop would be
great.
> That said I had reports about
> silly incompatibilities (like what a null would produce when turned into
> a string or something) that trip up Hadoop big time and nobody wants
> to spend time debugging it.
Can you point to any bug reports please?
Tom
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
Re: RedHat moving to OpenJDK
Posted by James Page <ja...@ubuntu.com>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
On 19/03/12 00:22, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Jos Backus <jo...@catnook.com>
> wrote:
>>> "Finally, Red Hat seems to have largely switched to OpenJDK.
>>> This is what JPackage is using for builds as well.
> Speaking of which -- what's your read on JPackage. It feels dead to
> me (and that's why Bigtop started packaging outside of immediate
> Bigdata scope) but I could be wrong.
>
>>> There has been no need to build a nosrc.rpm for a while now,
>>> assuming you're willing to give up the Oracle JDK for the
>>> OpenJDK in your base OS."
>>>
>>> How do people here feel about this move?
> I think we have to bite the bullet and start supporting OpenJDK. At
> least as an alternative JDK to Oracle's one. That said I had
> reports about silly incompatibilities (like what a null would
> produce when turned into a string or something) that trip up Hadoop
> big time and nobody wants to spend time debugging it.
We did discuss this as a long term goal when bigtop formed; As a
distro developer who has no option other than to use OpenJDK for the
majority of my work I would like to help resolve these issues - I
think its important for the long term health of Hadoop and OpenJDK.
I also know quite a few of the OpenJDK developers and I know they are
focussed on making OpenJDK great so it then just comes down to user
choice rather that a complete no-go (which incidentally I don't think
it is ATM).
I think the other thing that I don't see much movement on is the
switch to Java7 - technically this should make things much easier as
OpenJDK 7 and Oracle Java 7 are pretty much the same thing.
Fedora are already working on removing OpenJDK6 (see [0]) and I expect
to start doing the same in Ubuntu/Debian in the next few months...
Most OpenJDK development is now also focussed on 7 not 6....
[0] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Java7
- --
James Page
Ubuntu Core Developer
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Re: RedHat moving to OpenJDK
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 8:23 PM, Marcos Ortiz <ml...@uci.cu> wrote:
> Roman, It´s a lot of work but this effort is needed to do it.
> I think that a good approach to do this is create a new branch on the
> SVN called hadoop-openjdk to begin to test it.
>
> What do you think?
> Regards
I don't think you need to start with the branch -- simply get the Bigtop 0.3.0
and try building and deploying everything using OpenJDK. That'll give you
plenty food for thought. If folks would want to pursue this -- then yes we
can create a branch in Bigtop for that work to be hosted, but only when
patches start pouring in ;-)
Thanks,
Roman.
Re: RedHat moving to OpenJDK
Posted by Marcos Ortiz <ml...@uci.cu>.
On 3/18/2012 7:22 PM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Jos Backus<jo...@catnook.com> wrote:
>> "Finally, Red Hat seems to have largely switched to OpenJDK. This is
>> what JPackage is using for builds as well.
>
> Speaking of which -- what's your read on JPackage. It feels dead to me
> (and that's why Bigtop started packaging outside of immediate Bigdata
> scope) but I could be wrong.
>
>> There has been no need to
>> build a nosrc.rpm for a while now, assuming you're willing to give up
>> the Oracle JDK for the OpenJDK in your base OS."
>>
>> How do people here feel about this move?
>
> I think we have to bite the bullet and start supporting OpenJDK. At least
> as an alternative JDK to Oracle's one. That said I had reports about
> silly incompatibilities (like what a null would produce when turned into
> a string or something) that trip up Hadoop big time and nobody wants
> to spend time debugging it.
Roman, It´s a lot of work but this effort is needed to do it.
I think that a good approach to do this is create a new branch on the
SVN called hadoop-openjdk to begin to test it.
What do you think?
Regards
--
Marcos Luis Ortíz Valmaseda (@marcosluis2186)
Data Engineer at UCI
http://marcosluis2186.posterous.com
10mo. ANIVERSARIO DE LA CREACION DE LA UNIVERSIDAD DE LAS CIENCIAS INFORMATICAS...
CONECTADOS AL FUTURO, CONECTADOS A LA REVOLUCION
http://www.uci.cu
http://www.facebook.com/universidad.uci
http://www.flickr.com/photos/universidad_uci
Re: RedHat moving to OpenJDK
Posted by Bruno Mahé <bm...@apache.org>.
On 03/19/2012 02:28 AM, James Page wrote:
> On 19/03/12 00:22, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Jos Backus <jo...@catnook.com>
> > wrote:
> >>> "Finally, Red Hat seems to have largely switched to OpenJDK.
> >>> This is what JPackage is using for builds as well.
> > Speaking of which -- what's your read on JPackage. It feels dead
> > to me (and that's why Bigtop started packaging outside of
> > immediate Bigdata scope) but I could be wrong.
>
> >>> There has been no need to build a nosrc.rpm for a while now,
> >>> assuming you're willing to give up the Oracle JDK for the
> >>> OpenJDK in your base OS."
> >>>
> >>> How do people here feel about this move?
> > I think we have to bite the bullet and start supporting OpenJDK.
> > At least as an alternative JDK to Oracle's one. That said I had
> > reports about silly incompatibilities (like what a null would
> > produce when turned into a string or something) that trip up
> > Hadoop big time and nobody wants to spend time debugging it.
>
> We did discuss this as a long term goal when bigtop formed; As a
> distro developer who has no option other than to use OpenJDK for the
> majority of my work I would like to help resolve these issues - I
> think its important for the long term health of Hadoop and OpenJDK.
>
> I also know quite a few of the OpenJDK developers and I know they are
> focussed on making OpenJDK great so it then just comes down to user
> choice rather that a complete no-go (which incidentally I don't think
> it is ATM).
>
> I think the other thing that I don't see much movement on is the
> switch to Java7 - technically this should make things much easier as
> OpenJDK 7 and Oracle Java 7 are pretty much the same thing.
>
> Fedora are already working on removing OpenJDK6 (see [0]) and I expect
> to start doing the same in Ubuntu/Debian in the next few months...
>
> Most OpenJDK development is now also focussed on 7 not 6....
>
> [0] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Java7
>
+1.
I created https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/BIGTOP-458 so we can see
where we stand exactly.
Aside from that, I always build and run Apache Bigtop (incubating) at
home with OpenJDK 6 and I don't have any complain. But I guess my home
setup is quite different from a few hundreds nodes cluster :)
Re: RedHat moving to OpenJDK
Posted by James Page <ja...@ubuntu.com>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
On 19/03/12 00:22, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Jos Backus <jo...@catnook.com>
> wrote:
>>> "Finally, Red Hat seems to have largely switched to OpenJDK.
>>> This is what JPackage is using for builds as well.
> Speaking of which -- what's your read on JPackage. It feels dead
> to me (and that's why Bigtop started packaging outside of
> immediate Bigdata scope) but I could be wrong.
>
>>> There has been no need to build a nosrc.rpm for a while now,
>>> assuming you're willing to give up the Oracle JDK for the
>>> OpenJDK in your base OS."
>>>
>>> How do people here feel about this move?
> I think we have to bite the bullet and start supporting OpenJDK.
> At least as an alternative JDK to Oracle's one. That said I had
> reports about silly incompatibilities (like what a null would
> produce when turned into a string or something) that trip up
> Hadoop big time and nobody wants to spend time debugging it.
We did discuss this as a long term goal when bigtop formed; As a
distro developer who has no option other than to use OpenJDK for the
majority of my work I would like to help resolve these issues - I
think its important for the long term health of Hadoop and OpenJDK.
I also know quite a few of the OpenJDK developers and I know they are
focussed on making OpenJDK great so it then just comes down to user
choice rather that a complete no-go (which incidentally I don't think
it is ATM).
I think the other thing that I don't see much movement on is the
switch to Java7 - technically this should make things much easier as
OpenJDK 7 and Oracle Java 7 are pretty much the same thing.
Fedora are already working on removing OpenJDK6 (see [0]) and I expect
to start doing the same in Ubuntu/Debian in the next few months...
Most OpenJDK development is now also focussed on 7 not 6....
[0] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Java7
- --
James Page
Ubuntu Core Developer
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Re: RedHat moving to OpenJDK
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Jos Backus <jo...@catnook.com> wrote:
> "Finally, Red Hat seems to have largely switched to OpenJDK. This is
> what JPackage is using for builds as well.
Speaking of which -- what's your read on JPackage. It feels dead to me
(and that's why Bigtop started packaging outside of immediate Bigdata
scope) but I could be wrong.
> There has been no need to
> build a nosrc.rpm for a while now, assuming you're willing to give up
> the Oracle JDK for the OpenJDK in your base OS."
>
> How do people here feel about this move?
I think we have to bite the bullet and start supporting OpenJDK. At least
as an alternative JDK to Oracle's one. That said I had reports about
silly incompatibilities (like what a null would produce when turned into
a string or something) that trip up Hadoop big time and nobody wants
to spend time debugging it.
Thanks,
Roman.