You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to users@flex.apache.org by Raju Bitter <r....@googlemail.com> on 2012/06/27 11:53:53 UTC
What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
It has been more than half a year since Adobe announced that they are
going to donate Flex to the Apache Foundation. The community has been
very active to work on a first 4.8 Apache Flex release.
What are your experiences with colleagues, friends and maybe customers
when you talk about the Apache Flex project? Do they see the whole
effort as something very positive, or is the general attitude more
like: "Let's see if Flex is going to survive as an Apache project".
I have the feeling that more people seem to realize that HTML5 apps
are not as perfect/powerful as they thought they'd be, but at the same
time the general interest in Flash - outside the online game industry
- seems to be relatively low. I can imagine that a first 4.8 release
will convince people that Apache Flex is going to be successful ASF
project.
I'd be really interested in what your experiences have been in the
past months, as Flex experts, project managers, evangelists...
- Raju
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 6/27/2012 9:57 AM, Gary Griswold wrote:
> Hi,
>
> While I agree in general with the last three emails on the importance of Flex, I am worried. In the last 6 months since Apache started work on Flex, I have seen no discussion about features, and no plans of development.
You should check out the mailing list archives, then. (
http://markmail.org/search/+list:org.apache.incubator.flex-dev ).
Additionally, you may want to check out the whiteboard area of the
Apache Flex SVN. You'll see a lot of people have done a lot of
different things.
> The conference was encouraging that Adobe was donating a little more work soon to be finished, but the conference gave little to no indication of what was going to happen to Flex within Apache.
> http://www.360flex.com/
Where you there? I remember being on a panel with lots of other
contributors; and we all spoke about the stuff we were interested in
doing related to Apache.
> If the Apache Flex wants people to believe in the future of Flex a much better job has to be done delivering information about possible features considered, features to be included, plans for development, and release schedules.
When you're a corporation (like say Adobe), release schedules exist
because they relate to revenue streams and quarterly profits. Apache, as
a volunteer organization, does not have anything so formalized. People
generally work on things that they need; or want. Releases will happen
"whenever we feel like it." And releases can be as simple as a single
bug fix that someone felt was important to get out there ASAP.
Once we get a formal release, and figure out how to make releases in
the context of Apache, I expect you'll see more releases from Apache
Flex than you ever saw from Adobe. However, I also expect the releases
will be less "jaw dropping."
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Gary Griswold <ga...@shortsands.com>.
Hi,
While I agree in general with the last three emails on the importance of Flex, I am worried. In the last 6 months since Apache started work on Flex, I have seen no discussion about features, and no plans of development. So, while I really want Flex to survive and grow, I am among those who are worried that my recent development work might all need to be rewritten (or hopefully) converted to JS. If any of you know where concrete information about plans and progress can be found, I think it needs to made more available to the public.
The following link was last updated in April when there was a conference, and only mentioned some of the more important attendees, but no substance. There was a link to the 360flex conference, which I viewed over the web.
https://blogs.apache.org/flex/
The conference was encouraging that Adobe was donating a little more work soon to be finished, but the conference gave little to no indication of what was going to happen to Flex within Apache.
http://www.360flex.com/
The following link does announce 4.6, which as I understand it, is a near equivalent to Adobe 4.5, and this is an important step, but where does the project go from here?
http://incubator.apache.org/flex/
If the Apache Flex wants people to believe in the future of Flex a much better job has to be done delivering information about possible features considered, features to be included, plans for development, and release schedules.
Gary
On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:14 AM, Scott Matheson wrote:
> Hi
> I would say there are a number of issue, HTML / Java script is not the way for complex development unless you develop with a commercial tool, then you are back in to tie in problem, so no , HTML / Java script is not the answer
>
> The lack of visibility "marketing" of the community efforts does hurt management view of the future
>
> The real issue is the statements from OS providers and apparent lack of flash player support in new products, Microsoft W8 tiles, new MS pad, flash player in browsers etc. is just confusing, and unless you have time to understand the details of each and every statement you just get confused, I know that is the purpose of these companies
>
> So all this confusion drives you to HTML / Java script
>
> What we want to know is that they is a real effort from the community to create flex compilers that will generate HTML / Java script or some other run time that gives us back the build once run any place, IMHO this is the key to keeping enterprises working with Flex, we have to live with our work for 5-10 years, we need protection from Microsoft, Apple, Google etc.
>
> Scott
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John DiRuggiero [mailto:jdiru@me.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:26 AM
> To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
>
> Successfully building mobile apps has been achieved through development on the Flex framework. I see Flex as indicated by the name as flexible and the power and elegance of ActionScript 3 makes one hope that Apache Flex will continue to be successful and continue to collectively grow.
> - John D.
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2012, at 3:53 AM, Raju Bitter wrote:
>
>> It has been more than half a year since Adobe announced that they are
>> going to donate Flex to the Apache Foundation. The community has been
>> very active to work on a first 4.8 Apache Flex release.
>>
>> What are your experiences with colleagues, friends and maybe customers
>> when you talk about the Apache Flex project? Do they see the whole
>> effort as something very positive, or is the general attitude more
>> like: "Let's see if Flex is going to survive as an Apache project".
>>
>> I have the feeling that more people seem to realize that HTML5 apps
>> are not as perfect/powerful as they thought they'd be, but at the same
>> time the general interest in Flash - outside the online game industry
>> - seems to be relatively low. I can imagine that a first 4.8 release
>> will convince people that Apache Flex is going to be successful ASF
>> project.
>>
>> I'd be really interested in what your experiences have been in the
>> past months, as Flex experts, project managers, evangelists...
>>
>> - Raju
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Disclaimer: This electronic mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of this email and any attachments. Thank you.
RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by "Desai, Ashish S" <as...@jpmorgan.com>.
Decoupling flex framework from Adobe runtimes is amazing idea; however would that not require building direct flex-framework to browser compatibility from ground up. By then major enterprises would have converted to other technologies if we do not have right communication on our plan.
While I am not at all against Flex (because it's without doubt amazing), but thinking about it, I wouldn't say that it's wrong to think about migration to HTML if we don't have clear vision on what the future is like.
Agreed that for next few years enterprises are not upgrading their Operating systems to Windows 8 or OS X. But, a million dollar question that haunts us, what if they do? There has to be a mitigation plan, no?
So the point is, we as an active Apache Flex community, must publicly communicate the possibilities like the beautiful decoupling ideas and re-gain trust so that Major OS providers are compelled to continuing to support the runtimes or at-least come with alternatives.
And sure, we are happy to open a dialog.
Thanks,
Ashish
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeffry@dot-com-it.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:58 AM
To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash Player Runtime.
Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of flex.
Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project is "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player Plugins and Runtimes.
And how can we help you with that?
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
I don't think I was being sarcastic in that post.
On the first point; anything that gets into a release of the Flex SDK
has to be voted on by the PPMC members. Just because someone builds it
and adds it to their whiteboard is no guarantee that it will get voted
in. So, just because something is in the whiteboard, does not mean
it'll ever show up in a formal Apache Flex release.
On the second point; it'll take a lot of time to convert our Calendar
component over to a Spark model and mobile optimize it. It took 11
months to build the initial version; I'd estimate 3-6 months to do a
conversion from MX to Spark w/ mobile support. I'm not in a position
where I'm willing to put in a half year of unpaid work in order to build
something for Apache Flex. However, if funding were there I'd do it in
a heartbeat.
On 6/28/2012 6:28 PM, Daniel Ruiz wrote:
> I like your sarcasm dude..
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> I have no idea what to expect from the new versions of the
>>>>> SDK;
>>>>>
>>>> Please look at the Apache Flex SVN Repository, and pay attention to
>>>> stuff people have committed into their whiteboard.
>>>>
>>> And I have. Do you want me to take it as a 'statement' or 'guess' where
>>> the Project is going based on whiteboard commits?
>>>
>> It'd be a guess; at best.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> but I have no real clue.. and it would be quite nice to
>>>>> have some positive to say.
>>>>>
>>>> In the SVN Whiteboard area, there is a mobile Alert; and I believe
>>>> someone modified the mobile drop down list to work on mobile.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and I saw both. I would consider a port to Mobile of your Calendar
>>> Components a nice addition too..
>>>
>> Me too; want to fund the development?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeffry Houser
>> Technical Entrepreneur
>> 203-379-0773
>> --
>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104 <http://www.flextras.com/?c=104>
>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
>> --
>> http://www.theflexshow.com
>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
>> --
>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>>
>>
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Daniel Ruiz <da...@gmail.com>.
I like your sarcasm dude..
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>wrote:
>
>
> I have no idea what to expect from the new versions of the
>>>> SDK;
>>>>
>>> Please look at the Apache Flex SVN Repository, and pay attention to
>>> stuff people have committed into their whiteboard.
>>>
>> And I have. Do you want me to take it as a 'statement' or 'guess' where
>> the Project is going based on whiteboard commits?
>>
>
> It'd be a guess; at best.
>
>
>
>>
>>> but I have no real clue.. and it would be quite nice to
>>>> have some positive to say.
>>>>
>>> In the SVN Whiteboard area, there is a mobile Alert; and I believe
>>> someone modified the mobile drop down list to work on mobile.
>>>
>>> Yes, and I saw both. I would consider a port to Mobile of your Calendar
>> Components a nice addition too..
>>
>
> Me too; want to fund the development?
>
>
>
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> 203-379-0773
> --
> http://www.flextras.com?c=104 <http://www.flextras.com/?c=104>
> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> --
> http://www.theflexshow.com
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> --
> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>
>
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
>>> I have no idea what to expect from the new versions of the
>>> SDK;
>> Please look at the Apache Flex SVN Repository, and pay attention to stuff people have committed into their whiteboard.
> And I have. Do you want me to take it as a 'statement' or 'guess' where the Project is going based on whiteboard commits?
It'd be a guess; at best.
>
>>
>>> but I have no real clue.. and it would be quite nice to
>>> have some positive to say.
>> In the SVN Whiteboard area, there is a mobile Alert; and I believe someone modified the mobile drop down list to work on mobile.
>>
> Yes, and I saw both. I would consider a port to Mobile of your Calendar Components a nice addition too..
Me too; want to fund the development?
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Daniel Ruiz <da...@gmail.com>.
On 28/06/2012, at 11:20 PM, Jeffry Houser wrote:
> On 6/28/2012 3:13 AM, Daniel Ruiz wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I've been following the flex-dev list, and I believe at this point there is
>> no roadmap because most effort is being directed at releasing the 4.6
>> version on Apache namespace.
>> While this is acceptable, I share the same ideal that a roadmap is needed
>> so Flex developers/users can easily understand what flex-dev is working on;
>> as a developer using technology A or B it's quite important to have this
>> piece of information on order to take decisions.
> Do you really make technical decisions for today's project based upon what something may or may not do tomorrow?
Yes, I probably consider far more stuff than you do. I wish I could develop something to last one year and code it again in a new platform/technology - not the case.
>
>> I have no idea what to expect from the new versions of the
>> SDK;
> Please look at the Apache Flex SVN Repository, and pay attention to stuff people have committed into their whiteboard.
And I have. Do you want me to take it as a 'statement' or 'guess' where the Project is going based on whiteboard commits?
>
>> but I have no real clue.. and it would be quite nice to
>> have some positive to say.
> In the SVN Whiteboard area, there is a mobile Alert; and I believe someone modified the mobile drop down list to work on mobile.
>
Yes, and I saw both. I would consider a port to Mobile of your Calendar Components a nice addition too.. But I still cannot provide a List / ItemRenderer that does 60fps solid while scrolling in my developments.
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> 203-379-0773
> --
> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> --
> http://www.theflexshow.com
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> --
> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 6/28/2012 3:13 AM, Daniel Ruiz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've been following the flex-dev list, and I believe at this point there is
> no roadmap because most effort is being directed at releasing the 4.6
> version on Apache namespace.
> While this is acceptable, I share the same ideal that a roadmap is needed
> so Flex developers/users can easily understand what flex-dev is working on;
> as a developer using technology A or B it's quite important to have this
> piece of information on order to take decisions.
Do you really make technical decisions for today's project based upon
what something may or may not do tomorrow?
> I have no idea what to expect from the new versions of the
> SDK;
Please look at the Apache Flex SVN Repository, and pay attention to
stuff people have committed into their whiteboard.
> but I have no real clue.. and it would be quite nice to
> have some positive to say.
In the SVN Whiteboard area, there is a mobile Alert; and I believe
someone modified the mobile drop down list to work on mobile.
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Daniel Ruiz <da...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I've been following the flex-dev list, and I believe at this point there is
no roadmap because most effort is being directed at releasing the 4.6
version on Apache namespace.
While this is acceptable, I share the same ideal that a roadmap is needed
so Flex developers/users can easily understand what flex-dev is working on;
as a developer using technology A or B it's quite important to have this
piece of information on order to take decisions.
At this moment I'm developing another Mobile App in Flex for one of my
customers and I have no idea what to expect from the new versions of the
SDK; All I can tell them is that the in last release Adobe focused a lot in
Mobile improvements and I believe flex-dev would keep enhancing it for
Mobile aswell.. but I have no real clue.. and it would be quite nice to
have some positive to say.
=))
D.
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 6:36 PM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry Jeffrey, that's not directed at you. People have been saying that's
> how you have to do things around here.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 1:29 AM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Jeffry Houser <jeffry@dot-com-it.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
> >>> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future
> of
> >>> flex.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project is
> >> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
> >> priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public
> >> corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
> >>
> >
> > And the award for the worst organizational structure goes to... How can
> > someone depend on Flex when there is no road map and the developers do
> what
> > they want.
> >
> > If you're looking out only for your own interests, then sure, go ahead
> and
> > help where you want, when you want. That's better than nothing. But as a
> > team we need to know and define what we want to accomplish and go for it.
> > We need organization.
> >
> > Whether it's a corporation or not every project needs to have a vision
> and
> > goals.
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> One suggestion: why not open a page like uservoice.com offers, so anybody
> can place ideas very easily and vote on them.
> Or use jira actively - generating eg all 6 month a priority letter were you
> formulate what the community works on.
Feature requests can be aded in JIRA and can be voted on. Even if you don't want to become an active developer in Flex please submit feature requests and vote and what you want fixed/see happen in JIRA. Issue with more votes are more likely to be worked on.
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLEX
Anyone can sign up and create and vote on issues.
Thanks,
Justin
RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Marc Loeb <ma...@bluesky-information.com>.
> And do you think people can't create their own priorities? I think my
whole point of the "Volunteer approach" is that people work on stuff they
care about.
Alright - I do not say there should be one person telling volunteers what
they need to do. I think it would be wise to have a direction and some key
points - perhaps generated out of JIRA. This would be an orientation for non
Flex developers. Anyhow I depend and care about flex and I believe in the
future of flex, because it allows me to build applications on a high level
with low ressources.
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 6/28/2012 2:42 AM, Marc Loeb wrote:
> If resources are scarce - that's what I learned in economics and other
> places - you need to have priorities.
And do you think people can't create their own priorities? I think my
whole point of the "Volunteer approach" is that people work on stuff
they care about.
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Marc Loeb <ma...@bluesky-information.com>.
If resources are scarce - that's what I learned in economics and other
places - you need to have priorities.
One suggestion: why not open a page like uservoice.com offers, so anybody
can place ideas very easily and vote on them.
Or use jira actively - generating eg all 6 month a priority letter were you
formulate what the community works on.
-----Original Message-----
From: jude [mailto:flexcapacitor@gmail.com]
Sent: Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2012 8:37
To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org; jeffry@dot-com-it.com
Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Sorry Jeffrey, that's not directed at you. People have been saying that's
how you have to do things around here.
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 1:29 AM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Jeffry Houser
<je...@dot-com-it.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
>>> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown
>>> future of flex.
>>>
>>
>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project
>> is "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments
>> and priorities. That is different from a formal product from a
>> public corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
>>
>
> And the award for the worst organizational structure goes to... How
> can someone depend on Flex when there is no road map and the
> developers do what they want.
>
> If you're looking out only for your own interests, then sure, go ahead
> and help where you want, when you want. That's better than nothing.
> But as a team we need to know and define what we want to accomplish and go
for it.
> We need organization.
>
> Whether it's a corporation or not every project needs to have a vision
> and goals.
>
>
>
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by jude <fl...@gmail.com>.
Sorry Jeffrey, that's not directed at you. People have been saying that's
how you have to do things around here.
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 1:29 AM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
>>> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of
>>> flex.
>>>
>>
>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project is
>> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
>> priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public
>> corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
>>
>
> And the award for the worst organizational structure goes to... How can
> someone depend on Flex when there is no road map and the developers do what
> they want.
>
> If you're looking out only for your own interests, then sure, go ahead and
> help where you want, when you want. That's better than nothing. But as a
> team we need to know and define what we want to accomplish and go for it.
> We need organization.
>
> Whether it's a corporation or not every project needs to have a vision and
> goals.
>
>
>
RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by "Desai, Ashish S" <as...@jpmorgan.com>.
Jude is so right! What's the harm in consolidating what we think in terms of future and making it public? In fact, it will allow our community to gain back the trust we have lost.
For well-established projects at apache, a developer doing what he likes makes sense. I don't think it makes sense for something that is making its stepping stone.
There should be a brainstorming session on what we want to do in the future and what we perceive? That's when the developer's world-wide can start picking up from those items, and contributing on will. At some point there might be items in JIRA that might not even be looked at for ages. Do we not need a goal or a plan on how we clear up JIRA items?
If we don't have vision, what will happen could be similar to what happened to the Tamarin project at Mozilla.
Thanks,
Ashish
-----Original Message-----
From: jude [mailto:flexcapacitor@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 2:30 AM
To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org; jeffry@dot-com-it.com
Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>wrote:
>
> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
>> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown
>> future of flex.
>>
>
> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project
> is "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
> priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public
> corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
>
And the award for the worst organizational structure goes to... How can someone depend on Flex when there is no road map and the developers do what they want.
If you're looking out only for your own interests, then sure, go ahead and help where you want, when you want. That's better than nothing. But as a team we need to know and define what we want to accomplish and go for it.
We need organization.
Whether it's a corporation or not every project needs to have a vision and goals.
This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 6/28/2012 2:29 AM, jude wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Jeffry Houser <jeffry@dot-com-it.com
> <ma...@dot-com-it.com>> wrote:
>
>
> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the
> unknown future of flex.
>
>
> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex
> project is "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing
> commitments and priorities. That is different from a formal
> product from a public corporation. For all intents and purposes.
> we do want we want.
>
>
> And the award for the worst organizational structure goes to... How
> can someone depend on Flex when there is no road map and the
> developers do what they want.
People will depend upon on Flex for what it does; not for what it may
promise to do at some future point. It worked for Apache, and many
other open source projects.
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by jude <fl...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>wrote:
>
> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
>> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of
>> flex.
>>
>
> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project is
> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
> priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public
> corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
>
And the award for the worst organizational structure goes to... How can
someone depend on Flex when there is no road map and the developers do what
they want.
If you're looking out only for your own interests, then sure, go ahead and
help where you want, when you want. That's better than nothing. But as a
team we need to know and define what we want to accomplish and go for it.
We need organization.
Whether it's a corporation or not every project needs to have a vision and
goals.
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Jonathan Campos <jo...@gmail.com>.
Remeber that you can always file bugs with feature requests to help push
others that may have the development time but without an idea of what to
develop. There are many ways to be involved.
On Jun 27, 2012 9:54 AM, "Jeff Fairley" <jf...@levelsbeyond.com> wrote:
> Skipping to the end...
>
> I'm very excited about Flex moving to Apache. Though I don't have time to
> contribute, myself, I know there are many great coders out there with some
> great components. For instance, my company has been using some of Tink's
> components for a while now. The ones I've used are solid, and I'm thrilled
> that such good components from him and others will be able to get into the
> SDK.
>
> In addition, though I'm not sure how much work is going into it, I'm happy
> to see that at least a few people have interest in getting the SDK into a
> maven repo (hopefully into Maven Central). That's a big deal for our
> projects, since all of our builds come from with FlexMojos. Adobe was
> clearly not interested in Maven, so I have hope now with Apache in control.
>
> Jeff Fairley
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Jonathan Campos <jonbcampos@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Sorry grant. I don't work at Google and am just an individual coder like
> > you.
> >
> > Everyone has a voice and everyone has the ability to contribute. I just
> > feel that we should be discussing and developing code. That is the
> > discussion that will help move things along and enact positive change.
> >
> > I'm not sure what you feel is stopping you from contributing. Anyone can
> > contribute. This is the benefit to open source. If you have a question
> > about how to contribute feel free to ask.
> > On Jun 27, 2012 8:50 AM, "Gary Griswold" <ga...@shortsands.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I am the sole software developer of a small publisher and I do that as
> a
> > > volunteer. It is not feasible that I would also contribute to the Flex
> > > project, but the author of this last 'rant' works at Google. If Google
> > is
> > > permitting you to work on Flex then the rest of us who use Flex are
> > greatly
> > > indebted to you.
> > >
> > > But are you suggesting that those who are unable to contribute should
> > have
> > > no voice in the process?
> > >
> > > Gary
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:41 AM, Jonathan Campos wrote:
> > >
> > > > While I enjoy watching the banter this exact conversation has played
> > out
> > > > many times before.
> > > >
> > > > So let me skip to the end.
> > > >
> > > > You, have an amazing idea to completely change Flex and make it super
> > > > awesome.
> > > >
> > > > We, are a community happy to help and develop.
> > > >
> > > > Rather than spending effort sending emails start coding. With code
> > people
> > > > can see direction and join up and take action.
> > > >
> > > > You want a cross compiler?! Awesome! Start making it and others will
> > > > follow. I know of many side projects in the work all to help the
> > > community.
> > > > I have one of my own right now.
> > > >
> > > > The most helpful thing you can do is start writing code or making a
> > plan
> > > of
> > > > attack that others can join in on. So let's get back to coding and
> make
> > > > something amazing.
> > > > On Jun 27, 2012 8:35 AM, "Desai, Ashish S" <
> > ashish.s.desai@jpmorgan.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Precisely yes. So we should have at least some focus on building
> cross
> > > >> compilers that perform as beautifully as the Flex in Flash Runtime
> > does
> > > and
> > > >> then Voila, we have devised an amazing framework that the world
> would
> > > want
> > > >> to use.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Ashish
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Gary Griswold [mailto:gary.griswold@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
> > Gary
> > > >> Griswold
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 AM
> > > >> To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
> > > >> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash
> > in
> > > >> mid 2012?
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi,
> > > >>
> > > >> I would like to second Brett's motion. The best possible direction
> > for
> > > >> Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices. Some
> > > >> animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex
> > > >> developers would miss them. And someone would need to develop the
> big
> > > >> components, like DataGrid and Charts. I don't know how many people
> > need
> > > >> Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features. Possibly,
> > some
> > > >> complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to
> make
> > > the
> > > >> transition to JS.
> > > >>
> > > >> Gary
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued
> > > >> relevance and an opportunity to grow.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated
> > > >> derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk
> whenever
> > > Flash
> > > >> has been mentioned by a presenter.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the
> browser
> > > >> providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that
> > run
> > > the
> > > >> severs as well. Opposition on two fronts.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together
> toolkits
> > to
> > > >> do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut
> off.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the
> consistency
> > > and
> > > >> breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript
> > components
> > > and
> > > >> tooling.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> $0.02
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Brett
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Sent from my iPhone
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
> > > >>>>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing
> in
> > > >> Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for
> > > large
> > > >> complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the
> > > future
> > > >> of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the
> Flash
> > > >> Player Runtime.
> > > >>>> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework
> > from
> > > >> the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
> > > >> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown
> future
> > > of
> > > >> flex.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex
> project
> > > is
> > > >> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
> > > >> priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public
> > > >> corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get
> > > into
> > > >> dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash
> > Player
> > > >> Plugins and Runtimes.
> > > >>>> And how can we help you with that?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> --
> > > >>>> Jeffry Houser
> > > >>>> Technical Entrepreneur
> > > >>>> 203-379-0773
> > > >>>> --
> > > >>>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> > > >>>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> > > >>>> --
> > > >>>> http://www.theflexshow.com
> > > >>>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> > > >>>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> > > >>>> --
> > > >>>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
> > > >>>>
> > > >>
> > > >> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
> > > >> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
> > > >> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
> > > >> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
> > > >> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Jeff Fairley <jf...@levelsbeyond.com>.
Skipping to the end...
I'm very excited about Flex moving to Apache. Though I don't have time to
contribute, myself, I know there are many great coders out there with some
great components. For instance, my company has been using some of Tink's
components for a while now. The ones I've used are solid, and I'm thrilled
that such good components from him and others will be able to get into the
SDK.
In addition, though I'm not sure how much work is going into it, I'm happy
to see that at least a few people have interest in getting the SDK into a
maven repo (hopefully into Maven Central). That's a big deal for our
projects, since all of our builds come from with FlexMojos. Adobe was
clearly not interested in Maven, so I have hope now with Apache in control.
Jeff Fairley
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Jonathan Campos <jo...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Sorry grant. I don't work at Google and am just an individual coder like
> you.
>
> Everyone has a voice and everyone has the ability to contribute. I just
> feel that we should be discussing and developing code. That is the
> discussion that will help move things along and enact positive change.
>
> I'm not sure what you feel is stopping you from contributing. Anyone can
> contribute. This is the benefit to open source. If you have a question
> about how to contribute feel free to ask.
> On Jun 27, 2012 8:50 AM, "Gary Griswold" <ga...@shortsands.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am the sole software developer of a small publisher and I do that as a
> > volunteer. It is not feasible that I would also contribute to the Flex
> > project, but the author of this last 'rant' works at Google. If Google
> is
> > permitting you to work on Flex then the rest of us who use Flex are
> greatly
> > indebted to you.
> >
> > But are you suggesting that those who are unable to contribute should
> have
> > no voice in the process?
> >
> > Gary
> >
> >
> > On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:41 AM, Jonathan Campos wrote:
> >
> > > While I enjoy watching the banter this exact conversation has played
> out
> > > many times before.
> > >
> > > So let me skip to the end.
> > >
> > > You, have an amazing idea to completely change Flex and make it super
> > > awesome.
> > >
> > > We, are a community happy to help and develop.
> > >
> > > Rather than spending effort sending emails start coding. With code
> people
> > > can see direction and join up and take action.
> > >
> > > You want a cross compiler?! Awesome! Start making it and others will
> > > follow. I know of many side projects in the work all to help the
> > community.
> > > I have one of my own right now.
> > >
> > > The most helpful thing you can do is start writing code or making a
> plan
> > of
> > > attack that others can join in on. So let's get back to coding and make
> > > something amazing.
> > > On Jun 27, 2012 8:35 AM, "Desai, Ashish S" <
> ashish.s.desai@jpmorgan.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Precisely yes. So we should have at least some focus on building cross
> > >> compilers that perform as beautifully as the Flex in Flash Runtime
> does
> > and
> > >> then Voila, we have devised an amazing framework that the world would
> > want
> > >> to use.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Ashish
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Gary Griswold [mailto:gary.griswold@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
> Gary
> > >> Griswold
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 AM
> > >> To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
> > >> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash
> in
> > >> mid 2012?
> > >>
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> I would like to second Brett's motion. The best possible direction
> for
> > >> Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices. Some
> > >> animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex
> > >> developers would miss them. And someone would need to develop the big
> > >> components, like DataGrid and Charts. I don't know how many people
> need
> > >> Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features. Possibly,
> some
> > >> complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to make
> > the
> > >> transition to JS.
> > >>
> > >> Gary
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued
> > >> relevance and an opportunity to grow.
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated
> > >> derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever
> > Flash
> > >> has been mentioned by a presenter.
> > >>>
> > >>> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser
> > >> providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that
> run
> > the
> > >> severs as well. Opposition on two fronts.
> > >>>
> > >>> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits
> to
> > >> do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
> > >>>
> > >>> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency
> > and
> > >> breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript
> components
> > and
> > >> tooling.
> > >>>
> > >>> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
> > >>>
> > >>> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
> > >>>
> > >>> $0.02
> > >>>
> > >>> Brett
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>
> > >>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
> > >>>>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in
> > >> Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for
> > large
> > >> complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the
> > future
> > >> of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash
> > >> Player Runtime.
> > >>>> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework
> from
> > >> the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
> > >> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future
> > of
> > >> flex.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project
> > is
> > >> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
> > >> priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public
> > >> corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get
> > into
> > >> dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash
> Player
> > >> Plugins and Runtimes.
> > >>>> And how can we help you with that?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Jeffry Houser
> > >>>> Technical Entrepreneur
> > >>>> 203-379-0773
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> > >>>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> http://www.theflexshow.com
> > >>>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> > >>>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
> > >>>>
> > >>
> > >> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
> > >> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
> > >> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
> > >> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
> > >> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
> > >>
> >
> >
>
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Jonathan Campos <jo...@gmail.com>.
Sorry grant. I don't work at Google and am just an individual coder like
you.
Everyone has a voice and everyone has the ability to contribute. I just
feel that we should be discussing and developing code. That is the
discussion that will help move things along and enact positive change.
I'm not sure what you feel is stopping you from contributing. Anyone can
contribute. This is the benefit to open source. If you have a question
about how to contribute feel free to ask.
On Jun 27, 2012 8:50 AM, "Gary Griswold" <ga...@shortsands.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am the sole software developer of a small publisher and I do that as a
> volunteer. It is not feasible that I would also contribute to the Flex
> project, but the author of this last 'rant' works at Google. If Google is
> permitting you to work on Flex then the rest of us who use Flex are greatly
> indebted to you.
>
> But are you suggesting that those who are unable to contribute should have
> no voice in the process?
>
> Gary
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:41 AM, Jonathan Campos wrote:
>
> > While I enjoy watching the banter this exact conversation has played out
> > many times before.
> >
> > So let me skip to the end.
> >
> > You, have an amazing idea to completely change Flex and make it super
> > awesome.
> >
> > We, are a community happy to help and develop.
> >
> > Rather than spending effort sending emails start coding. With code people
> > can see direction and join up and take action.
> >
> > You want a cross compiler?! Awesome! Start making it and others will
> > follow. I know of many side projects in the work all to help the
> community.
> > I have one of my own right now.
> >
> > The most helpful thing you can do is start writing code or making a plan
> of
> > attack that others can join in on. So let's get back to coding and make
> > something amazing.
> > On Jun 27, 2012 8:35 AM, "Desai, Ashish S" <as...@jpmorgan.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Precisely yes. So we should have at least some focus on building cross
> >> compilers that perform as beautifully as the Flex in Flash Runtime does
> and
> >> then Voila, we have devised an amazing framework that the world would
> want
> >> to use.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Ashish
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Gary Griswold [mailto:gary.griswold@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> >> Griswold
> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 AM
> >> To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in
> >> mid 2012?
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I would like to second Brett's motion. The best possible direction for
> >> Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices. Some
> >> animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex
> >> developers would miss them. And someone would need to develop the big
> >> components, like DataGrid and Charts. I don't know how many people need
> >> Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features. Possibly, some
> >> complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to make
> the
> >> transition to JS.
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:
> >>
> >>> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued
> >> relevance and an opportunity to grow.
> >>>
> >>> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated
> >> derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever
> Flash
> >> has been mentioned by a presenter.
> >>>
> >>> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser
> >> providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run
> the
> >> severs as well. Opposition on two fronts.
> >>>
> >>> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to
> >> do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
> >>>
> >>> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency
> and
> >> breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components
> and
> >> tooling.
> >>>
> >>> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
> >>>
> >>> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
> >>>
> >>> $0.02
> >>>
> >>> Brett
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
> >>>>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in
> >> Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for
> large
> >> complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the
> future
> >> of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash
> >> Player Runtime.
> >>>> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from
> >> the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
> >>>>
> >>>>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
> >> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future
> of
> >> flex.
> >>>>
> >>>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project
> is
> >> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
> >> priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public
> >> corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
> >>>>
> >>>>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get
> into
> >> dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player
> >> Plugins and Runtimes.
> >>>> And how can we help you with that?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Jeffry Houser
> >>>> Technical Entrepreneur
> >>>> 203-379-0773
> >>>> --
> >>>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> >>>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> >>>> --
> >>>> http://www.theflexshow.com
> >>>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> >>>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> >>>> --
> >>>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
> >>>>
> >>
> >> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
> >> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
> >> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
> >> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
> >> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
> >>
>
>
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Harbs <ha...@gmail.com>.
On Jun 27, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Jeffry Houser wrote:
> I was unaware that Sencha had a Flex to JS Translator.
As was I. I just spent some time looking for it and I came up empty...
Harbs
RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Jonathan Campos <jo...@gmail.com>.
You are 100% correct and forgive me for not noticing the different email
address. I thought this was the dev list. Muse away.
On Jun 27, 2012 12:54 PM, "Michael Wissner" <mw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Isn't this the flex-users list? There is a flex-dev list for those who
> want to develop flex. Maybe I am misunderstanding the purpose of this
> list. This is from the Apache web site:
>
> ------
> Development Mailing List
> (flex-dev)
>
> This is where the project community hangs out. This list is used to
> coordinate
> activities and ensure we are all pulling in the same direction.
>
> Flex Users Mailing List (flex-users)
>
> This is where community users can get together and discuss flex. This list
> is not
> intended for discussions that should take place on flex-dev. All
> discussions on this
> list are unofficial discussions. Use this list to get help from fellow
> flex devlopers,
> to discuss how you use flex, etc...
>
> ----------
>
> My interpretation of this statement of purpose is that flex-users is a
> place for *users* to voice their concerns. Developers have other forums.
>
> > That is perfectly acceptable, if you have no interest in contributing
> > to the Flex SDK; there is no need to be on the list.
>
> So I am not sure this list is what you think it is.
>
> If I am wrong, please let me know the list that is for users to discuss
> their needs and expectations. In that case I'd also suggest you rename
> this list to something else.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 13:27:55 -0400
> > From: jeffry@dot-com-it.com
> > To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
> > CC: gary@shortsands.com
> > Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in
> mid 2012?
> >
> > On 6/27/2012 12:43 PM, Gary Griswold wrote:
> > > OK, I will unsubscribe. My plan is to continue development in Flex
> with my current project over the next 12 months, and then see the status of
> things and decide what to do.
> >
> > That is perfectly acceptable, if you have no interest in contributing
> > to the Flex SDK; there is no need to be on the list.
> >
> > Despite the coldness of my original post, there are ways to contribute
> > without devoting tons of time writing code:
> >
> > 1) If you find an error, be sure to file a bug report (
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLEX )
> > 2) If you fix an error that is relevant to your own development, you can
> > file a bug report and include your fix as a patch.
> > 3) If can also submit feature requests in the JIRA bug base.
> > 4) Write and provide documentation
> > 5) Write and provide code samples
> >
> > However, I, personally, do not want to be treated as "The private
> > development team" of every Flex developer.
> >
> > > It is much more feasible for me to buy Sencha's Flex to JS translator
> than it is to spend time doing source code development.
> >
> > I was unaware that Sencha had a Flex to JS Translator.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jeffry Houser
> > Technical Entrepreneur
> > 203-379-0773
> > --
> > http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> > UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> > --
> > http://www.theflexshow.com
> > http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> > http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> > --
> > Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
> >
>
>
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Harbs <ha...@gmail.com>.
Jonathan, Jeffry,
I have the lists separated into separate dev and user folders with email filters. That makes it very clear which list the email comes from.
It might not be a bad idea to do the same... ;-)
Harbs
On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:42 PM, Jeffry Houser wrote:
>
> That is my fault; I thought this was on the flex-dev list.
>
> I am wrong on the purpose of the user list and need to pay more attention to which list I am responding to.
>
> On 6/27/2012 3:53 PM, Michael Wissner wrote:
>> That is perfectly acceptable, if you have no interest in contributing
>> to the Flex SDK; there is no need to be on the list.
>> So I am not sure this list is what you think it is.
>>
>> If I am wrong, please let me know the list that is for users to discuss their needs and expectations. In that case I'd also suggest you rename this list to something else.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 13:27:55 -0400
>>> From: jeffry@dot-com-it.com
>>> To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
>>> CC: gary@shortsands.com
>>> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
>>>
>>> On 6/27/2012 12:43 PM, Gary Griswold wrote:
>>>> OK, I will unsubscribe. My plan is to continue development in Flex with my current project over the next 12 months, and then see the status of things and decide what to do.
>>> That is perfectly acceptable, if you have no interest in contributing
>>> to the Flex SDK; there is no need to be on the list.
>>>
>>> Despite the coldness of my original post, there are ways to contribute
>>> without devoting tons of time writing code:
>>>
>>> 1) If you find an error, be sure to file a bug report (
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLEX )
>>> 2) If you fix an error that is relevant to your own development, you can
>>> file a bug report and include your fix as a patch.
>>> 3) If can also submit feature requests in the JIRA bug base.
>>> 4) Write and provide documentation
>>> 5) Write and provide code samples
>>>
>>> However, I, personally, do not want to be treated as "The private
>>> development team" of every Flex developer.
>>>
>>>> It is much more feasible for me to buy Sencha's Flex to JS translator than it is to spend time doing source code development.
>>> I was unaware that Sencha had a Flex to JS Translator.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jeffry Houser
>>> Technical Entrepreneur
>>> 203-379-0773
>>> --
>>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
>>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
>>> --
>>> http://www.theflexshow.com
>>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
>>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
>>> --
>>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>>>
>>
>
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid2012?
Posted by ma...@adylnet.com.br.
Hello Justin
Thanks it was very helpfull, if you release the recorded, please let
us know.
thanks
Thiago Maia
a00s.com
On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 18:14:18 +1000, Justin Mclean
<ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
> HI,
>
>> Sorry if I missundertood but, what I think, the point of discuss it
>> was just to have some more information in the website about what's
going
>> on, from somebody from the dev-list.
>
> I gave a talk on Apache Flex the other week - here's the slide deck if
> you're interested.
>
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1SsVcr2SLkBJMXk1N6U3-HpxloSUUa4pBX-2f4GrRL5M/edit
>
> The talk was recorded and I hope to release that sometime soon.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
HI,
> Sorry if I missundertood but, what I think, the point of discuss it
> was just to have some more information in the website about what's going
> on, from somebody from the dev-list.
I gave a talk on Apache Flex the other week - here's the slide deck if you're interested.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1SsVcr2SLkBJMXk1N6U3-HpxloSUUa4pBX-2f4GrRL5M/edit
The talk was recorded and I hope to release that sometime soon.
Thanks,
Justin
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid2012?
Posted by ma...@adylnet.com.br.
Hello guys
Sorry if I missundertood but, what I think, the point of discuss it
was just to have some more information in the website about what's going
on, from somebody from the dev-list.
Think about. A new developer start to choose if should use flex or
other framework. He enter at Apache Flex website. What have there that will
make this new developer choose flex instead of other framework? Or even a
flex developer looking if should keep going or not.
Maybe just some lines telling what's going on, once a week, that
doesn't take more than 2 minutes to write, will help a lot of "users" to
have a resume of dev-list.
I know (developer for free + need to make marketing) is taff, but
this is the world.
I notice this month you guys start to add the month news. This is a
really great thing.
thanks
** sorry my bad english =)
Thiago Maia
a00s.com
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
That is my fault; I thought this was on the flex-dev list.
I am wrong on the purpose of the user list and need to pay more
attention to which list I am responding to.
On 6/27/2012 3:53 PM, Michael Wissner wrote:
> That is perfectly acceptable, if you have no interest in contributing
> to the Flex SDK; there is no need to be on the list.
> So I am not sure this list is what you think it is.
>
> If I am wrong, please let me know the list that is for users to discuss their needs and expectations. In that case I'd also suggest you rename this list to something else.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 13:27:55 -0400
>> From: jeffry@dot-com-it.com
>> To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
>> CC: gary@shortsands.com
>> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
>>
>> On 6/27/2012 12:43 PM, Gary Griswold wrote:
>>> OK, I will unsubscribe. My plan is to continue development in Flex with my current project over the next 12 months, and then see the status of things and decide what to do.
>> That is perfectly acceptable, if you have no interest in contributing
>> to the Flex SDK; there is no need to be on the list.
>>
>> Despite the coldness of my original post, there are ways to contribute
>> without devoting tons of time writing code:
>>
>> 1) If you find an error, be sure to file a bug report (
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLEX )
>> 2) If you fix an error that is relevant to your own development, you can
>> file a bug report and include your fix as a patch.
>> 3) If can also submit feature requests in the JIRA bug base.
>> 4) Write and provide documentation
>> 5) Write and provide code samples
>>
>> However, I, personally, do not want to be treated as "The private
>> development team" of every Flex developer.
>>
>>> It is much more feasible for me to buy Sencha's Flex to JS translator than it is to spend time doing source code development.
>> I was unaware that Sencha had a Flex to JS Translator.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeffry Houser
>> Technical Entrepreneur
>> 203-379-0773
>> --
>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
>> --
>> http://www.theflexshow.com
>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
>> --
>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>>
>
RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by Michael Wissner <mw...@hotmail.com>.
Isn't this the flex-users list? There is a flex-dev list for those who
want to develop flex. Maybe I am misunderstanding the purpose of this list. This is from the Apache web site:
------
Development Mailing List
(flex-dev)
This is where the project community hangs out. This list is used to coordinate
activities and ensure we are all pulling in the same direction.
Flex Users Mailing List (flex-users)
This is where community users can get together and discuss flex. This list is not
intended for discussions that should take place on flex-dev. All discussions on this
list are unofficial discussions. Use this list to get help from fellow flex devlopers,
to discuss how you use flex, etc...
----------
My interpretation of this statement of purpose is that flex-users is a place for *users* to voice their concerns. Developers have other forums.
> That is perfectly acceptable, if you have no interest in contributing
> to the Flex SDK; there is no need to be on the list.
So I am not sure this list is what you think it is.
If I am wrong, please let me know the list that is for users to discuss their needs and expectations. In that case I'd also suggest you rename this list to something else.
Michael
> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 13:27:55 -0400
> From: jeffry@dot-com-it.com
> To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
> CC: gary@shortsands.com
> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
>
> On 6/27/2012 12:43 PM, Gary Griswold wrote:
> > OK, I will unsubscribe. My plan is to continue development in Flex with my current project over the next 12 months, and then see the status of things and decide what to do.
>
> That is perfectly acceptable, if you have no interest in contributing
> to the Flex SDK; there is no need to be on the list.
>
> Despite the coldness of my original post, there are ways to contribute
> without devoting tons of time writing code:
>
> 1) If you find an error, be sure to file a bug report (
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLEX )
> 2) If you fix an error that is relevant to your own development, you can
> file a bug report and include your fix as a patch.
> 3) If can also submit feature requests in the JIRA bug base.
> 4) Write and provide documentation
> 5) Write and provide code samples
>
> However, I, personally, do not want to be treated as "The private
> development team" of every Flex developer.
>
> > It is much more feasible for me to buy Sencha's Flex to JS translator than it is to spend time doing source code development.
>
> I was unaware that Sencha had a Flex to JS Translator.
>
>
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> 203-379-0773
> --
> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> --
> http://www.theflexshow.com
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> --
> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 6/27/2012 12:43 PM, Gary Griswold wrote:
> OK, I will unsubscribe. My plan is to continue development in Flex with my current project over the next 12 months, and then see the status of things and decide what to do.
That is perfectly acceptable, if you have no interest in contributing
to the Flex SDK; there is no need to be on the list.
Despite the coldness of my original post, there are ways to contribute
without devoting tons of time writing code:
1) If you find an error, be sure to file a bug report (
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLEX )
2) If you fix an error that is relevant to your own development, you can
file a bug report and include your fix as a patch.
3) If can also submit feature requests in the JIRA bug base.
4) Write and provide documentation
5) Write and provide code samples
However, I, personally, do not want to be treated as "The private
development team" of every Flex developer.
> It is much more feasible for me to buy Sencha's Flex to JS translator than it is to spend time doing source code development.
I was unaware that Sencha had a Flex to JS Translator.
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Gary Griswold <ga...@shortsands.com>.
OK, I will unsubscribe. My plan is to continue development in Flex with my current project over the next 12 months, and then see the status of things and decide what to do. It is much more feasible for me to buy Sencha's Flex to JS translator than it is to spend time doing source code development.
Gary
On Jun 27, 2012, at 12:37 PM, Jeffry Houser wrote:
> On 6/27/2012 11:49 AM, Gary Griswold wrote:
>> But are you suggesting that those who are unable to contribute should have no voice in the process?
>
> I didn't read anything on the list that made me suggest someone said that. However, I am willing to say that. If you want a vote in what goes into the Flex SDK:
>
> 1) Contribute
> 2) Pay someone to contribute for you.
>
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> 203-379-0773
> --
> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> --
> http://www.theflexshow.com
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> --
> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 6/27/2012 11:49 AM, Gary Griswold wrote:
> But are you suggesting that those who are unable to contribute should have no voice in the process?
I didn't read anything on the list that made me suggest someone said
that. However, I am willing to say that. If you want a vote in what
goes into the Flex SDK:
1) Contribute
2) Pay someone to contribute for you.
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Gary Griswold <ga...@shortsands.com>.
Peter,
Sorry, it was my mistake. I was referring to Jonathan Campo's recent call for us to all get to work. But, in re-reading the email I see that he has a gmail address, and is probably not a google employee.
Gary
On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:54 AM, Peter Elst wrote:
> Sorry if I missed something - what author of the last 'rant' are you
> referring to - would be nice to hear if there's a colleague at Google
> involved in Apache Flex.
>
> - Peter
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Gary Griswold <ga...@shortsands.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am the sole software developer of a small publisher and I do that as a
>> volunteer. It is not feasible that I would also contribute to the Flex
>> project, but the author of this last 'rant' works at Google. If Google is
>> permitting you to work on Flex then the rest of us who use Flex are greatly
>> indebted to you.
>>
>> But are you suggesting that those who are unable to contribute should have
>> no voice in the process?
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:41 AM, Jonathan Campos wrote:
>>
>>> While I enjoy watching the banter this exact conversation has played out
>>> many times before.
>>>
>>> So let me skip to the end.
>>>
>>> You, have an amazing idea to completely change Flex and make it super
>>> awesome.
>>>
>>> We, are a community happy to help and develop.
>>>
>>> Rather than spending effort sending emails start coding. With code people
>>> can see direction and join up and take action.
>>>
>>> You want a cross compiler?! Awesome! Start making it and others will
>>> follow. I know of many side projects in the work all to help the
>> community.
>>> I have one of my own right now.
>>>
>>> The most helpful thing you can do is start writing code or making a plan
>> of
>>> attack that others can join in on. So let's get back to coding and make
>>> something amazing.
>>> On Jun 27, 2012 8:35 AM, "Desai, Ashish S" <as...@jpmorgan.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Precisely yes. So we should have at least some focus on building cross
>>>> compilers that perform as beautifully as the Flex in Flash Runtime does
>> and
>>>> then Voila, we have devised an amazing framework that the world would
>> want
>>>> to use.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Ashish
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Gary Griswold [mailto:gary.griswold@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gary
>>>> Griswold
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 AM
>>>> To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in
>>>> mid 2012?
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I would like to second Brett's motion. The best possible direction for
>>>> Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices. Some
>>>> animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex
>>>> developers would miss them. And someone would need to develop the big
>>>> components, like DataGrid and Charts. I don't know how many people need
>>>> Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features. Possibly, some
>>>> complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to make
>> the
>>>> transition to JS.
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued
>>>> relevance and an opportunity to grow.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated
>>>> derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever
>> Flash
>>>> has been mentioned by a presenter.
>>>>>
>>>>> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser
>>>> providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run
>> the
>>>> severs as well. Opposition on two fronts.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to
>>>> do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
>>>>>
>>>>> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency
>> and
>>>> breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components
>> and
>>>> tooling.
>>>>>
>>>>> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
>>>>>
>>>>> $0.02
>>>>>
>>>>> Brett
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
>>>>>>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in
>>>> Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for
>> large
>>>> complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the
>> future
>>>> of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash
>>>> Player Runtime.
>>>>>> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from
>>>> the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
>>>> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future
>> of
>>>> flex.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project
>> is
>>>> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
>>>> priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public
>>>> corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get
>> into
>>>> dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player
>>>> Plugins and Runtimes.
>>>>>> And how can we help you with that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jeffry Houser
>>>>>> Technical Entrepreneur
>>>>>> 203-379-0773
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
>>>>>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> http://www.theflexshow.com
>>>>>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
>>>>>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
>>>> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
>>>> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
>>>> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
>>>> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
>>>>
>>
>>
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Peter Elst <pe...@gmail.com>.
Sorry if I missed something - what author of the last 'rant' are you
referring to - would be nice to hear if there's a colleague at Google
involved in Apache Flex.
- Peter
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Gary Griswold <ga...@shortsands.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am the sole software developer of a small publisher and I do that as a
> volunteer. It is not feasible that I would also contribute to the Flex
> project, but the author of this last 'rant' works at Google. If Google is
> permitting you to work on Flex then the rest of us who use Flex are greatly
> indebted to you.
>
> But are you suggesting that those who are unable to contribute should have
> no voice in the process?
>
> Gary
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:41 AM, Jonathan Campos wrote:
>
> > While I enjoy watching the banter this exact conversation has played out
> > many times before.
> >
> > So let me skip to the end.
> >
> > You, have an amazing idea to completely change Flex and make it super
> > awesome.
> >
> > We, are a community happy to help and develop.
> >
> > Rather than spending effort sending emails start coding. With code people
> > can see direction and join up and take action.
> >
> > You want a cross compiler?! Awesome! Start making it and others will
> > follow. I know of many side projects in the work all to help the
> community.
> > I have one of my own right now.
> >
> > The most helpful thing you can do is start writing code or making a plan
> of
> > attack that others can join in on. So let's get back to coding and make
> > something amazing.
> > On Jun 27, 2012 8:35 AM, "Desai, Ashish S" <as...@jpmorgan.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Precisely yes. So we should have at least some focus on building cross
> >> compilers that perform as beautifully as the Flex in Flash Runtime does
> and
> >> then Voila, we have devised an amazing framework that the world would
> want
> >> to use.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Ashish
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Gary Griswold [mailto:gary.griswold@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> >> Griswold
> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 AM
> >> To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in
> >> mid 2012?
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I would like to second Brett's motion. The best possible direction for
> >> Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices. Some
> >> animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex
> >> developers would miss them. And someone would need to develop the big
> >> components, like DataGrid and Charts. I don't know how many people need
> >> Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features. Possibly, some
> >> complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to make
> the
> >> transition to JS.
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:
> >>
> >>> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued
> >> relevance and an opportunity to grow.
> >>>
> >>> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated
> >> derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever
> Flash
> >> has been mentioned by a presenter.
> >>>
> >>> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser
> >> providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run
> the
> >> severs as well. Opposition on two fronts.
> >>>
> >>> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to
> >> do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
> >>>
> >>> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency
> and
> >> breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components
> and
> >> tooling.
> >>>
> >>> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
> >>>
> >>> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
> >>>
> >>> $0.02
> >>>
> >>> Brett
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
> >>>>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in
> >> Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for
> large
> >> complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the
> future
> >> of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash
> >> Player Runtime.
> >>>> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from
> >> the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
> >>>>
> >>>>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
> >> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future
> of
> >> flex.
> >>>>
> >>>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project
> is
> >> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
> >> priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public
> >> corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
> >>>>
> >>>>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get
> into
> >> dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player
> >> Plugins and Runtimes.
> >>>> And how can we help you with that?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Jeffry Houser
> >>>> Technical Entrepreneur
> >>>> 203-379-0773
> >>>> --
> >>>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> >>>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> >>>> --
> >>>> http://www.theflexshow.com
> >>>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> >>>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> >>>> --
> >>>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
> >>>>
> >>
> >> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
> >> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
> >> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
> >> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
> >> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
> >>
>
>
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Gary Griswold <ga...@shortsands.com>.
Hi,
I am the sole software developer of a small publisher and I do that as a volunteer. It is not feasible that I would also contribute to the Flex project, but the author of this last 'rant' works at Google. If Google is permitting you to work on Flex then the rest of us who use Flex are greatly indebted to you.
But are you suggesting that those who are unable to contribute should have no voice in the process?
Gary
On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:41 AM, Jonathan Campos wrote:
> While I enjoy watching the banter this exact conversation has played out
> many times before.
>
> So let me skip to the end.
>
> You, have an amazing idea to completely change Flex and make it super
> awesome.
>
> We, are a community happy to help and develop.
>
> Rather than spending effort sending emails start coding. With code people
> can see direction and join up and take action.
>
> You want a cross compiler?! Awesome! Start making it and others will
> follow. I know of many side projects in the work all to help the community.
> I have one of my own right now.
>
> The most helpful thing you can do is start writing code or making a plan of
> attack that others can join in on. So let's get back to coding and make
> something amazing.
> On Jun 27, 2012 8:35 AM, "Desai, Ashish S" <as...@jpmorgan.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Precisely yes. So we should have at least some focus on building cross
>> compilers that perform as beautifully as the Flex in Flash Runtime does and
>> then Voila, we have devised an amazing framework that the world would want
>> to use.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ashish
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gary Griswold [mailto:gary.griswold@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gary
>> Griswold
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 AM
>> To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in
>> mid 2012?
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to second Brett's motion. The best possible direction for
>> Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices. Some
>> animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex
>> developers would miss them. And someone would need to develop the big
>> components, like DataGrid and Charts. I don't know how many people need
>> Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features. Possibly, some
>> complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to make the
>> transition to JS.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:
>>
>>> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued
>> relevance and an opportunity to grow.
>>>
>>> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated
>> derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever Flash
>> has been mentioned by a presenter.
>>>
>>> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser
>> providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run the
>> severs as well. Opposition on two fronts.
>>>
>>> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to
>> do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
>>>
>>> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency and
>> breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components and
>> tooling.
>>>
>>> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
>>>
>>> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
>>>
>>> $0.02
>>>
>>> Brett
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
>>>>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in
>> Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large
>> complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future
>> of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash
>> Player Runtime.
>>>> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from
>> the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
>>>>
>>>>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
>> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of
>> flex.
>>>>
>>>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project is
>> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
>> priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public
>> corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
>>>>
>>>>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into
>> dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player
>> Plugins and Runtimes.
>>>> And how can we help you with that?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jeffry Houser
>>>> Technical Entrepreneur
>>>> 203-379-0773
>>>> --
>>>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
>>>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
>>>> --
>>>> http://www.theflexshow.com
>>>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
>>>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
>>>> --
>>>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>>>>
>>
>> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
>> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
>> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
>> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
>> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
>>
RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Jonathan Campos <jo...@gmail.com>.
While I enjoy watching the banter this exact conversation has played out
many times before.
So let me skip to the end.
You, have an amazing idea to completely change Flex and make it super
awesome.
We, are a community happy to help and develop.
Rather than spending effort sending emails start coding. With code people
can see direction and join up and take action.
You want a cross compiler?! Awesome! Start making it and others will
follow. I know of many side projects in the work all to help the community.
I have one of my own right now.
The most helpful thing you can do is start writing code or making a plan of
attack that others can join in on. So let's get back to coding and make
something amazing.
On Jun 27, 2012 8:35 AM, "Desai, Ashish S" <as...@jpmorgan.com>
wrote:
> Precisely yes. So we should have at least some focus on building cross
> compilers that perform as beautifully as the Flex in Flash Runtime does and
> then Voila, we have devised an amazing framework that the world would want
> to use.
>
> Thanks,
> Ashish
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Griswold [mailto:gary.griswold@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> Griswold
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 AM
> To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in
> mid 2012?
>
> Hi,
>
> I would like to second Brett's motion. The best possible direction for
> Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices. Some
> animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex
> developers would miss them. And someone would need to develop the big
> components, like DataGrid and Charts. I don't know how many people need
> Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features. Possibly, some
> complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to make the
> transition to JS.
>
> Gary
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:
>
> > IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued
> relevance and an opportunity to grow.
> >
> > I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated
> derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever Flash
> has been mentioned by a presenter.
> >
> > To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser
> providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run the
> severs as well. Opposition on two fronts.
> >
> > As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to
> do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
> >
> > The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency and
> breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components and
> tooling.
> >
> > Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
> >
> > Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
> >
> > $0.02
> >
> > Brett
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
> >>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in
> Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large
> complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future
> of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash
> Player Runtime.
> >> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from
> the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
> >>
> >>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of
> flex.
> >>
> >> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project is
> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
> priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public
> corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
> >>
> >>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into
> dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player
> Plugins and Runtimes.
> >> And how can we help you with that?
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jeffry Houser
> >> Technical Entrepreneur
> >> 203-379-0773
> >> --
> >> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> >> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> >> --
> >> http://www.theflexshow.com
> >> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> >> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> >> --
> >> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
> >>
>
> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
>
RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by "Desai, Ashish S" <as...@jpmorgan.com>.
Precisely yes. So we should have at least some focus on building cross compilers that perform as beautifully as the Flex in Flash Runtime does and then Voila, we have devised an amazing framework that the world would want to use.
Thanks,
Ashish
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Griswold [mailto:gary.griswold@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gary Griswold
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 AM
To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Hi,
I would like to second Brett's motion. The best possible direction for Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices. Some animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex developers would miss them. And someone would need to develop the big components, like DataGrid and Charts. I don't know how many people need Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features. Possibly, some complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to make the transition to JS.
Gary
On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:
> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued relevance and an opportunity to grow.
>
> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever Flash has been mentioned by a presenter.
>
> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run the severs as well. Opposition on two fronts.
>
> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
>
> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency and breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components and tooling.
>
> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
>
> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
>
> $0.02
>
> Brett
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com> wrote:
>
>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
>>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash Player Runtime.
>> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
>>
>>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of flex.
>>
>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project is "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
>>
>>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player Plugins and Runtimes.
>> And how can we help you with that?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeffry Houser
>> Technical Entrepreneur
>> 203-379-0773
>> --
>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
>> --
>> http://www.theflexshow.com
>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
>> --
>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>>
This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Gary Griswold <ga...@shortsands.com>.
Hi,
I would like to second Brett's motion. The best possible direction for Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices. Some animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex developers would miss them. And someone would need to develop the big components, like DataGrid and Charts. I don't know how many people need Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features. Possibly, some complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to make the transition to JS.
Gary
On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:
> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued relevance and an opportunity to grow.
>
> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever Flash has been mentioned by a presenter.
>
> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run the severs as well. Opposition on two fronts.
>
> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
>
> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency and breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components and tooling.
>
> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
>
> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
>
> $0.02
>
> Brett
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com> wrote:
>
>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
>>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash Player Runtime.
>> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
>>
>>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of flex.
>>
>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project is "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
>>
>>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player Plugins and Runtimes.
>> And how can we help you with that?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeffry Houser
>> Technical Entrepreneur
>> 203-379-0773
>> --
>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
>> --
>> http://www.theflexshow.com
>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
>> --
>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>>
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
HI,
> to mention the dependecy on the FlashPlayer which is a). not open source
The Flash Player dependancy may be a concern long term, but the current direction the Flash Player going in should help performance and capabilities of Flex.
For instance it will be interesting to see how web workers (threading) can be integrated into the Flex framework.
> b). going the game route with explicit statements by Adobe that it might
> not be backwards compatible with the Flex sdk
I wouldn't be too sure on that. The intended plan that that when they create a new version of ActionScript it will run in a new VM in the Flash Player. (Exactly the same way as AS2 code runs in the Flash Player today). It would however be up to Apache Flex to work on making Flex compatible with any new version of the Flash Player that is released. Currently that's not any major effort and it has been compiled for and has limited testing with version 11.2 and 11.3.
> It looks to me like a cross compiler to HTML / javascript is the
> most important and viable road to take at the moment.
I'm also interested to see what happens on this front.
Thanks,
Justin
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Dahn Maier <da...@maierinc.com>.
I think we need to be honest - except for the developers of Flex (who
understand the benefits intimately) the world out there is separated in two
categories:
- people who want Flash gone
- people who don't care
As we all know from economics - the crowd sentiment is a powerful driver.
Also I have recently read an article attesting that Flash shaves about 2
hours of battery life on a mac laptop. If there was ever an argument
against Flash this one is it for me.
Let's ask a different question - who else other than the people who know it
will want to use it once HTML + js have caught up? In other words how much
effort does one want to put into it for a 3-5 yrs max survival rate? (not
to mention the dependecy on the FlashPlayer which is a). not open source,
b). going the game route with explicit statements by Adobe that it might
not be backwards compatible with the Flex sdk).
That being said the develop once / deploy all proposition is extremely
powerful. It looks to me like a cross compiler to HTML / javascript is the
most important and viable road to take at the moment.
+= $0.02
Dahn
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam <bp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued relevance
> and an opportunity to grow.
>
> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated derisive
> laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever Flash has been
> mentioned by a presenter.
>
> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser
> providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run the
> severs as well. Opposition on two fronts.
>
> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to do
> JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
>
> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency and
> breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components and
> tooling.
>
> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
>
> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
>
> $0.02
>
> Brett
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com> wrote:
>
> > On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
> >> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in
> Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large
> complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future
> of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash
> Player Runtime.
> > Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from
> the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
> >
> >> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of
> flex.
> >
> > Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project is
> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
> priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public
> corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
> >
> >> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into
> dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player
> Plugins and Runtimes.
> > And how can we help you with that?
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jeffry Houser
> > Technical Entrepreneur
> > 203-379-0773
> > --
> > http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> > UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> > --
> > http://www.theflexshow.com
> > http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> > http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> > --
> > Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
> >
>
--
Dahn Maier
Maier Inc.
dahn@maierinc.com
917.596.3685
------------------------------
This transmission is intended solely for the person or organization to whom
it is addressed and it may contain privileged and confidential information.
If you are not the intended recipient you should not copy, distribute or
take any action in reliance on it. If you believe you received this
transmission in error please notify the sender.
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Brett Adam <bp...@gmail.com>.
IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued relevance and an opportunity to grow.
I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever Flash has been mentioned by a presenter.
To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run the severs as well. Opposition on two fronts.
As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency and breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components and tooling.
Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
$0.02
Brett
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com> wrote:
> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash Player Runtime.
> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
>
>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of flex.
>
> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project is "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
>
>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player Plugins and Runtimes.
> And how can we help you with that?
>
>
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> 203-379-0773
> --
> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> --
> http://www.theflexshow.com
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> --
> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash Player Runtime.
Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework
from the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of flex.
Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route. The Flex project
is "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
priorities. That is different from a formal product from a public
corporation. For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player Plugins and Runtimes.
And how can we help you with that?
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by "Desai, Ashish S" <as...@jpmorgan.com>.
I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash Player Runtime.
While there are similar JavaScript libraries/projects with comparable performance, I think more and more enterprises are embracing those technologies and using cross-compilers to deploy to multiple devices.
There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of flex. I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player Plugins and Runtimes.
The business community needs answers as to how long are the doors on Flex going to stay open, and there has not been a promising answer yet.
Thanks,
Ashish
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Matheson [mailto:smatheson@intralinks.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 7:14 AM
To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Hi
I would say there are a number of issue, HTML / Java script is not the way for complex development unless you develop with a commercial tool, then you are back in to tie in problem, so no , HTML / Java script is not the answer
The lack of visibility "marketing" of the community efforts does hurt management view of the future
The real issue is the statements from OS providers and apparent lack of flash player support in new products, Microsoft W8 tiles, new MS pad, flash player in browsers etc. is just confusing, and unless you have time to understand the details of each and every statement you just get confused, I know that is the purpose of these companies
So all this confusion drives you to HTML / Java script
What we want to know is that they is a real effort from the community to create flex compilers that will generate HTML / Java script or some other run time that gives us back the build once run any place, IMHO this is the key to keeping enterprises working with Flex, we have to live with our work for 5-10 years, we need protection from Microsoft, Apple, Google etc.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: John DiRuggiero [mailto:jdiru@me.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:26 AM
To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Successfully building mobile apps has been achieved through development on the Flex framework. I see Flex as indicated by the name as flexible and the power and elegance of ActionScript 3 makes one hope that Apache Flex will continue to be successful and continue to collectively grow.
- John D.
On Jun 27, 2012, at 3:53 AM, Raju Bitter wrote:
> It has been more than half a year since Adobe announced that they are
> going to donate Flex to the Apache Foundation. The community has been
> very active to work on a first 4.8 Apache Flex release.
>
> What are your experiences with colleagues, friends and maybe customers
> when you talk about the Apache Flex project? Do they see the whole
> effort as something very positive, or is the general attitude more
> like: "Let's see if Flex is going to survive as an Apache project".
>
> I have the feeling that more people seem to realize that HTML5 apps
> are not as perfect/powerful as they thought they'd be, but at the same
> time the general interest in Flash - outside the online game industry
> - seems to be relatively low. I can imagine that a first 4.8 release
> will convince people that Apache Flex is going to be successful ASF
> project.
>
> I'd be really interested in what your experiences have been in the
> past months, as Flex experts, project managers, evangelists...
>
> - Raju
________________________________
Disclaimer: This electronic mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of this email and any attachments. Thank you.
This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by Scott Matheson <sm...@intralinks.com>.
Hi
I would say there are a number of issue, HTML / Java script is not the way for complex development unless you develop with a commercial tool, then you are back in to tie in problem, so no , HTML / Java script is not the answer
The lack of visibility "marketing" of the community efforts does hurt management view of the future
The real issue is the statements from OS providers and apparent lack of flash player support in new products, Microsoft W8 tiles, new MS pad, flash player in browsers etc. is just confusing, and unless you have time to understand the details of each and every statement you just get confused, I know that is the purpose of these companies
So all this confusion drives you to HTML / Java script
What we want to know is that they is a real effort from the community to create flex compilers that will generate HTML / Java script or some other run time that gives us back the build once run any place, IMHO this is the key to keeping enterprises working with Flex, we have to live with our work for 5-10 years, we need protection from Microsoft, Apple, Google etc.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: John DiRuggiero [mailto:jdiru@me.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:26 AM
To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Successfully building mobile apps has been achieved through development on the Flex framework. I see Flex as indicated by the name as flexible and the power and elegance of ActionScript 3 makes one hope that Apache Flex will continue to be successful and continue to collectively grow.
- John D.
On Jun 27, 2012, at 3:53 AM, Raju Bitter wrote:
> It has been more than half a year since Adobe announced that they are
> going to donate Flex to the Apache Foundation. The community has been
> very active to work on a first 4.8 Apache Flex release.
>
> What are your experiences with colleagues, friends and maybe customers
> when you talk about the Apache Flex project? Do they see the whole
> effort as something very positive, or is the general attitude more
> like: "Let's see if Flex is going to survive as an Apache project".
>
> I have the feeling that more people seem to realize that HTML5 apps
> are not as perfect/powerful as they thought they'd be, but at the same
> time the general interest in Flash - outside the online game industry
> - seems to be relatively low. I can imagine that a first 4.8 release
> will convince people that Apache Flex is going to be successful ASF
> project.
>
> I'd be really interested in what your experiences have been in the
> past months, as Flex experts, project managers, evangelists...
>
> - Raju
________________________________
Disclaimer: This electronic mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of this email and any attachments. Thank you.
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
2012?
Posted by John DiRuggiero <jd...@me.com>.
Successfully building mobile apps has been achieved through development on the Flex framework. I see Flex as indicated by the name as flexible and the power and elegance of ActionScript 3 makes one hope that Apache Flex will continue to be successful and continue to collectively grow.
- John D.
On Jun 27, 2012, at 3:53 AM, Raju Bitter wrote:
> It has been more than half a year since Adobe announced that they are
> going to donate Flex to the Apache Foundation. The community has been
> very active to work on a first 4.8 Apache Flex release.
>
> What are your experiences with colleagues, friends and maybe customers
> when you talk about the Apache Flex project? Do they see the whole
> effort as something very positive, or is the general attitude more
> like: "Let's see if Flex is going to survive as an Apache project".
>
> I have the feeling that more people seem to realize that HTML5 apps
> are not as perfect/powerful as they thought they'd be, but at the same
> time the general interest in Flash - outside the online game industry
> - seems to be relatively low. I can imagine that a first 4.8 release
> will convince people that Apache Flex is going to be successful ASF
> project.
>
> I'd be really interested in what your experiences have been in the
> past months, as Flex experts, project managers, evangelists...
>
> - Raju
Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
Just thought I'd share my experience with Flex this year so far. I'm a freelance Flex developer who been developing Flex applications since version 1.5. I'm also a Flex trainer and I'm now involved in Apache Flex as a committer.
1. I'm still working on Flex development full time.
2. The demand for new Flex work seems about the same, and I've had a greater number of requests to work on "legacy" Flex projects.
3. I've seen an increase in enquires for Flex training (although I've run fewer courses than before).
4. Some of my clients are wary of investing in Adobe technology (existing or new).
5. Most of my clients think the move to Apache is a good move but are frustrated by the slow donation process.
6. Lack of understanding of how Apache projects work (eg no roadmap) does cause a little confusion.
You milage may vary as they say.
Thanks,
Justin