Re: Is struts more performant than JSF

[Ted Husted <te...@gmail.com>]

On 5/12/05, Frank W. Zammetti <fz...@omnytex.com> wrote:
> I don't know what kind of environment you work in, but if I suggested
> writing an application twice just to determine which way we should have
> done it in the first place, I'd get laughed all the way back to my office
> :) LOL

Hmmm, I think I said one *iteration* of the application. Something
that might be done in a few days or a couple of weeks. A large
application might have fifty or more iterations. And, of course, one
iteration would be kept.

:) The ones who get laughted out of my office are the ones who suppose
a strategy is more performant without a test suite to prove it. :)

-Ted.

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Re: Is struts more performant than JSF

[Dakota Jack <da...@gmail.com>]

<SNIP>
On 5/12/05, Ted Husted <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> :) The ones who get laughted out of my office are the ones who suppose
> a strategy is more performant without a test suite to prove it. :)
> 
> -Ted.
</SNIP>

My take is as follows:

A.  We try not to laugh at people around here for any reason.  
B.  Tests are important if you need them and supposing you do not need
them when you do is clearly a mistake.
C.  Tests are a waste of time if you do not need them and a "knee
jerk" decision to always test is as mistaken as any other non-thinking
activity.  One of the places tests may not be necessary is in choosing
between two frameworks.

There are some frameworks that are obviously "heavy" out of the box if
you undestand how computers work.  JSF is one of them.


-- 
"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back."
~Dakota Jack~

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Re: Is struts more performant than JSF

["Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>]

On Thu, May 12, 2005 10:26 am, Ted Husted said:
> On 5/12/05, Frank W. Zammetti <fz...@omnytex.com> wrote:
>> I don't know what kind of environment you work in, but if I suggested
>> writing an application twice just to determine which way we should have
>> done it in the first place, I'd get laughed all the way back to my
>> office
>> :) LOL
>
> Hmmm, I think I said one *iteration* of the application. Something
> that might be done in a few days or a couple of weeks. A large
> application might have fifty or more iterations. And, of course, one
> iteration would be kept.

Ah, that iterative approach :)  I wish we could get away with that as rule
here too.

typically, we'll still a waterfall organization, by and large.  We're the
type of place you need three months of discussion to produce a BRD, TRD,
so on and so forth, get signoff by everyone in the company seemingly,
before anyone writes one line of code, and by then the deadline is so
ridiculously tight that there's no way in the world you can do anything
interesting with the project.  Ugh. :)

We're changing a little bit, slowly, and I've personally been fotunate to
have been given a fair amount of lattitude over the years to just "git'r
done", but it's still not easy.

> :) The ones who get laughted out of my office are the ones who suppose
> a strategy is more performant without a test suite to prove it. :)

Agreed.  One thing that is pretty good here is that most decisions are
based on hard facts rather that suppositions at least.

I for one *do not* assume JSF is any worse than Struts, or anything else,
in terms of performance and CPU utilization.  Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
 Until I have some numbers to sway me either way I won't make any
decisions based on those facets.  And as Craig said, if it gives you
enough benefit in other areas, some negatives might be offset.

But the CPU utilization issue was of particular interest to me because of
our hosting setup, hence my comments.

Frank


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