You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Jean-Baptiste Quenot <jb...@apache.org> on 2006/08/01 11:12:23 UTC

Re: [Vote] Release 2.2M1

+0

I  don't  think  it's  a  good   idea  to  run  Cocoon  2.2  using
"mvn jetty6:run".  Basically if you use  Maven 2 you have no other
choice than running a beta version of Jetty.

I   made  some   tests  (outside   the  scope   of  Cocoon),   and
encountered  problems  with Jetty  6  Beta,  which appears  to  be
shaky.   If you  feel  confident, then  at least  be  sure to  use
version >= 6.0.0beta17.

But the point is:  it's not up to the build  system to decide what
servlet container  needs to be  used at runtime.  Do  you remember
Sylvain [1]talking about Ant+Ivy one and  a half year ago?  He was
right: Ivy *just*  downloads artifacts in a  local repository, and
that solves 99% of Maven 2 problems.  Ivy does little, but it does
it well.   In our current project  we [2]switched from Maven  2 to
Ant+Ivy recently, and life is much better now.  We trust the build
system again,  and we are able  to run any servlet  container like
before.

The good  news is that  Ivy is  compatible with Maven  2 directory
layout,  and  is  able  to  read POMs.   In  short,  it  does  not
require reorganizing  the source tree  all over again: it  is very
unintrusive.
-- 
     Jean-Baptiste Quenot
aka  John Banana Qwerty
http://caraldi.com/jbq/

[1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=110569717619800&w=2
[2] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=115338484216107&w=2

Re: [Vote] Release 2.2M1

Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
Ralph Goers wrote:
> Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>>
>> exactly this problem should be solved by releasing the named M1 
>> artifacts. A "normal" user doesn't need to build Cocoon anymore.
> Does the user documentation now reflect that?

no, AFAIK not yet. As Carsten said and I repeated today, we need to provide 
documentation about Cocoon 2.2.

-- 
Reinhard Pötz           Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach 

{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}

                                        web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
--------------------------------------------------------------------

		
___________________________________________________________ 
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

Re: [Vote] Release 2.2M1

Posted by Ralph Goers <Ra...@dslextreme.com>.
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>
> exactly this problem should be solved by releasing the named M1 
> artifacts. A "normal" user doesn't need to build Cocoon anymore.
Does the user documentation now reflect that?

Ralph

Re: [Vote] Release 2.2M1

Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
Jean-Baptiste Quenot wrote:
> * Leszek Gawron:
> 
>> Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>>
>>> your  observations regarding  Jetty  6 are  interesting but  I
>>> don't understand how  this relates to Cocoon and  that it uses
>>> Maven 2 as build system?
>> Exactly .. Jetty is just used  to start a webapp for development
>> purposes. You can easily take packaged  cocoon webapp and use it
>> just like 2.1.x.
> 
> Good point, but  by experience I know that most  users will follow
> exactly what is in README.txt.  This is for running Cocoon.
> 
> And for  the build,  do you  think the  user will  continue trying
> Cocoon 2.2 after  reading: « A full build can take  from 5 minutes
> to  maybe 4  hours... »?  We  just can't  write that.   We need  a
> reliable build  system as long  as we  require our users  to build
> Cocoon themselves.

exactly this problem should be solved by releasing the named M1 artifacts. A 
"normal" user doesn't need to build Cocoon anymore.

-- 
Reinhard Pötz           Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach 

{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}

                                        web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
--------------------------------------------------------------------

	

	
		
___________________________________________________________ 
Der fr�he Vogel f�ngt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de

Re: [Vote] Release 2.2M1

Posted by Jorg Heymans <jh...@domek.be>.
On 8/1/06 2:42 PM, in article 20060801124209.GK70025@vision.anyware,
"Jean-Baptiste Quenot" <jb...@apache.org> wrote:

>>> your  observations regarding  Jetty  6 are  interesting but  I
>>> don't understand how  this relates to Cocoon and  that it uses
>>> Maven 2 as build system?
>> 
>> Exactly .. Jetty is just used  to start a webapp for development
>> purposes. You can easily take packaged  cocoon webapp and use it
>> just like 2.1.x.
> 
> Good point, but  by experience I know that most  users will follow
> exactly what is in README.txt.  This is for running Cocoon.

2.2.x 's usage of jetty is very similar to 2.1.x , don't think our users
will be fooled into thinking they can only use cocoon by launching jetty
through maven.
 
> And for  the build,  do you  think the  user will  continue trying
> Cocoon 2.2 after  reading: « A full build can take  from 5 minutes
> to  maybe 4  hours... »?  We  just can't  write that.   We need  a

It *should* be removed yes.

Jorg



Re: [Vote] Release 2.2M1

Posted by Jean-Baptiste Quenot <jb...@apache.org>.
* Leszek Gawron:

> Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>
> > your  observations regarding  Jetty  6 are  interesting but  I
> > don't understand how  this relates to Cocoon and  that it uses
> > Maven 2 as build system?
>
> Exactly .. Jetty is just used  to start a webapp for development
> purposes. You can easily take packaged  cocoon webapp and use it
> just like 2.1.x.

Good point, but  by experience I know that most  users will follow
exactly what is in README.txt.  This is for running Cocoon.

And for  the build,  do you  think the  user will  continue trying
Cocoon 2.2 after  reading: « A full build can take  from 5 minutes
to  maybe 4  hours... »?  We  just can't  write that.   We need  a
reliable build  system as long  as we  require our users  to build
Cocoon themselves.
-- 
     Jean-Baptiste Quenot
aka  John Banana Qwerty
http://caraldi.com/jbq/

Re: [Vote] Release 2.2M1

Posted by Leszek Gawron <lg...@mobilebox.pl>.
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> Jean-Baptiste Quenot wrote:
>> +0
>>
>> I  don't  think  it's  a  good   idea  to  run  Cocoon  2.2  using
>> "mvn jetty6:run".  Basically if you use  Maven 2 you have no other
>> choice than running a beta version of Jetty.
>>
>> I   made  some   tests  (outside   the  scope   of  Cocoon),   and
>> encountered  problems  with Jetty  6  Beta,  which appears  to  be
>> shaky.   If you  feel  confident, then  at least  be  sure to  use
>> version >= 6.0.0beta17.
>>
>> But the point is:  it's not up to the build  system to decide what
>> servlet container  needs to be  used at runtime.  Do  you remember
>> Sylvain [1]talking about Ant+Ivy one and  a half year ago?  He was
>> right: Ivy *just*  downloads artifacts in a  local repository, and
>> that solves 99% of Maven 2 problems.  Ivy does little, but it does
>> it well.   In our current project  we [2]switched from Maven  2 to
>> Ant+Ivy recently, and life is much better now.  We trust the build
>> system again,  and we are able  to run any servlet  container like
>> before.
>>
>> The good  news is that  Ivy is  compatible with Maven  2 directory
>> layout,  and  is  able  to  read POMs.   In  short,  it  does  not
>> require reorganizing  the source tree  all over again: it  is very
>> unintrusive.
> 
> your observations regarding Jetty 6 are interesting but I don't 
> understand how this relates to Cocoon and that it uses Maven 2 as build 
> system?
Exactly .. Jetty is just used to start a webapp for development 
purposes. You can easily take packaged cocoon webapp and use it just 
like 2.1.x.


-- 
Leszek Gawron                                      lgawron@mobilebox.pl
IT Manager                                         MobileBox sp. z o.o.
+48 (61) 855 06 67                              http://www.mobilebox.pl
mobile: +48 (501) 720 812                       fax: +48 (61) 853 29 65

Re: [Vote] Release 2.2M1

Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
Jean-Baptiste Quenot wrote:
> +0
> 
> I  don't  think  it's  a  good   idea  to  run  Cocoon  2.2  using
> "mvn jetty6:run".  Basically if you use  Maven 2 you have no other
> choice than running a beta version of Jetty.
> 
> I   made  some   tests  (outside   the  scope   of  Cocoon),   and
> encountered  problems  with Jetty  6  Beta,  which appears  to  be
> shaky.   If you  feel  confident, then  at least  be  sure to  use
> version >= 6.0.0beta17.
> 
> But the point is:  it's not up to the build  system to decide what
> servlet container  needs to be  used at runtime.  Do  you remember
> Sylvain [1]talking about Ant+Ivy one and  a half year ago?  He was
> right: Ivy *just*  downloads artifacts in a  local repository, and
> that solves 99% of Maven 2 problems.  Ivy does little, but it does
> it well.   In our current project  we [2]switched from Maven  2 to
> Ant+Ivy recently, and life is much better now.  We trust the build
> system again,  and we are able  to run any servlet  container like
> before.
> 
> The good  news is that  Ivy is  compatible with Maven  2 directory
> layout,  and  is  able  to  read POMs.   In  short,  it  does  not
> require reorganizing  the source tree  all over again: it  is very
> unintrusive.

your observations regarding Jetty 6 are interesting but I don't understand how 
this relates to Cocoon and that it uses Maven 2 as build system?

-- 
Reinhard Pötz           Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach 

{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}

                                        web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
--------------------------------------------------------------------

	

	
		
___________________________________________________________ 
Der fr�he Vogel f�ngt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de

Re: [Vote] Release 2.2M1

Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agssa.net>.
Jean-Baptiste Quenot escribió:
> * Antonio Gallardo:
>
>   
>> Jean-Baptiste Quenot escribió:
>>     
>
>   
>>> I  made  some  tests  (outside   the  scope  of  Cocoon),  and
>>> encountered problems  with Jetty 6  Beta, which appears  to be
>>> shaky.  If  you feel confident, then  at least be sure  to use
>>> version >= 6.0.0beta17.
>>>       
>> Agreed. We had  the same problems locally. Few  weeks ago, tired
>> of  the unstable  jetty6 plugin  situation, Carlos  did a  small
>> research and found  we don't need to use  jetty6 anymore. We can
>> use the stable jetty plugin now:
>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/Important-jetty-plugin-changes-t1900742.html
>>     
>
> I don't see any information  regarding the Jetty servlet container
> version itself.  Neither at the above link nor at the one below:
>
> http://jetty.mortbay.org/jetty6/maven-plugin/howto.html
>
> What makes you think you can downgrade Jetty?  Dropping the "6" on
> the plugin name doesn't mean anything.
>
> The POM still depends on Jetty 6:
> http://www.mortbay.org/maven2/snapshot/org/mortbay/jetty/maven-jetty-plugin/6.0-SNAPSHOT/maven-jetty-plugin-6.0-20060723.171850-5.pom
>
> Cheers,
>   
Yep. I took a closer look and you are right, but somehow it is stable 
since then.

Best Regards,

Antonio Gallardo.



Re: [Vote] Release 2.2M1

Posted by Jean-Baptiste Quenot <jb...@apache.org>.
* Antonio Gallardo:

> Jean-Baptiste Quenot escribió:

> > I  made  some  tests  (outside   the  scope  of  Cocoon),  and
> > encountered problems  with Jetty 6  Beta, which appears  to be
> > shaky.  If  you feel confident, then  at least be sure  to use
> > version >= 6.0.0beta17.
>
> Agreed. We had  the same problems locally. Few  weeks ago, tired
> of  the unstable  jetty6 plugin  situation, Carlos  did a  small
> research and found  we don't need to use  jetty6 anymore. We can
> use the stable jetty plugin now:
>
> http://www.nabble.com/Important-jetty-plugin-changes-t1900742.html

I don't see any information  regarding the Jetty servlet container
version itself.  Neither at the above link nor at the one below:

http://jetty.mortbay.org/jetty6/maven-plugin/howto.html

What makes you think you can downgrade Jetty?  Dropping the "6" on
the plugin name doesn't mean anything.

The POM still depends on Jetty 6:
http://www.mortbay.org/maven2/snapshot/org/mortbay/jetty/maven-jetty-plugin/6.0-SNAPSHOT/maven-jetty-plugin-6.0-20060723.171850-5.pom

Cheers,
-- 
     Jean-Baptiste Quenot
aka  John Banana Qwerty
http://caraldi.com/jbq/

Re: [Vote] Release 2.2M1

Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agssa.net>.
Jean-Baptiste Quenot escribió:
> +0
>
> I  don't  think  it's  a  good   idea  to  run  Cocoon  2.2  using
> "mvn jetty6:run".  Basically if you use  Maven 2 you have no other
> choice than running a beta version of Jetty.
>
> I   made  some   tests  (outside   the  scope   of  Cocoon),   and
> encountered  problems  with Jetty  6  Beta,  which appears  to  be
> shaky.   If you  feel  confident, then  at least  be  sure to  use
> version >= 6.0.0beta17.
>   
Agreed. We had the same problems locally. Few weeks ago, tired of the 
unstable jetty6 plugin situation, Carlos did a small research and found 
we don't need to use jetty6 anymore. We can use the stable jetty plugin now:

http://www.nabble.com/Important-jetty-plugin-changes-t1900742.html

Best Regards,

Antonio Gallardo.